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| 00:51.49 | RobotGuy | I got a GCC 4.2.1/binutils v2.18.50.1 toolchain built with the latest buildroot from svn. :) |
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| 13:45.50 | strikov | Hi! Are there anybody with BuildRoot experience? |
| 13:51.33 | prpplague | strikov: ask your question and wait to see if someone answers |
| 13:52.54 | strikov | Please advise me how to make a full cleanup of my BR `project`, cause when i change my .config and run `make` project do not really rebuild |
| 13:55.28 | prpplague | strikov: the easiest way to make sure that the project is rebuild is to remove the project staging directory along with the stamp file |
| 13:56.31 | strikov | prpplague: thanks, and what is a `stamp file`? |
| 13:56.38 | wmat | prpplague: did you grab the Lite toolchain? |
| 13:57.25 | prpplague | wmat: sorry no, did you post some info on it? |
| 13:57.48 | wmat | prpplague: no, did you need a pointer? |
| 13:58.18 | prpplague | strikov: each stage of build process uses a file to mark completion, for instance for the project staging dir there will be some .installed files |
| 13:58.36 | prpplague | wmat: oh, maybe later today |
| 13:58.49 | prpplague | wmat: i was just checking to see what was available |
| 13:58.58 | wmat | prpplague: http://www.codesourcery.com/gnu_toolchains/arm |
| 13:58.59 | prpplague | wmat: want to get my feet wet with your toolchain stuff |
| 13:59.05 | prpplague | wmat: great |
| 13:59.09 | prpplague | bookmarks |
| 14:01.19 | strikov | And are there any full buildroot Manual? Official do not contain some important data |
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| 14:02.43 | prpplague | strikov: nope |
| 14:04.11 | strikov | :( thanks |
| 14:06.55 | sjhill | hey prpplague |
| 14:07.04 | prpplague | sjhill: greetings |
| 14:07.10 | prpplague | sjhill: whats cookin today? |
| 14:08.22 | sjhill | documentation |
| 14:08.25 | sjhill | :( |
| 14:08.43 | sjhill | so, this day is guaranteed to drag |
| 14:08.47 | sjhill | and you? |
| 14:10.49 | prpplague | sjhill: i'm supposed to be finishing a small userland app |
| 14:10.57 | prpplague | sjhill: but i'm procrastinating |
| 14:11.13 | prpplague | sjhill: i just don't care for userland dev |
| 14:12.07 | chouimat|work | prpplague: hi |
| 14:12.13 | prpplague | chouimat|work: greetings |
| 14:12.37 | prpplague | hehe i wish i knew someone i could bribe to finish this up |
| 14:12.56 | chouimat|work | prpplague: get a college student ... they are so cheap |
| 14:13.15 | chouimat|work | except in NY where they cost a lot more :) |
| 14:13.38 | prpplague | chouimat|work: yea well, it would take me longer to find one that could do the job that it would for me to just do it |
| 14:14.36 | chouimat|work | prpplague: ya but you will be able to reuse it for future job ;) |
| 14:15.12 | prpplague | chouimat|work: naw, doubt that |
| 14:20.02 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 14:20.27 | prpplague | has a case of the "mondays" |
| 14:21.28 | prpplague | sjhill: still doing mostly mips dev?\ |
| 14:21.39 | chouimat|work | sjhill: hi |
| 14:21.45 | sjhill | hey chouimat|work |
| 14:21.49 | sjhill | prpplague: mips, ppc, arm |
| 14:21.57 | sjhill | just call me "RISCy" |
| 14:21.59 | prpplague | sjhill: hehe |
| 14:22.18 | prpplague | sjhill: did you see the nail board? |
| 14:22.24 | chouimat|work | sjhill: that sound like me lately |
| 14:22.36 | sjhill | prpplague: do you have available for purchase now? |
| 14:22.46 | prpplague | sjhill: in two weeks |
| 14:22.50 | sjhill | sweet |
| 14:22.54 | sjhill | so |
| 14:23.07 | sjhill | i need to compare it with the USBprog thingee too |
| 14:23.08 | prpplague | sjhill: got a nice clear plastic tube case - http://www.elinux.org/Nail_Board |
| 14:23.20 | prpplague | sjhill: USBprog? |
| 14:23.27 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I got the AVR32 NGW100 which is nice for 90$ and I also got the stk1000 which is cool but more expensive |
| 14:23.46 | prpplague | chouimat|work: yea i hear alot of people getting the ngw100 kit |
| 14:23.50 | sjhill | http://www.embedded-projects.net/index.php?page_id=165 |
| 14:24.03 | prpplague | chouimat|work: is it the price that is the real kicker? |
| 14:24.08 | prpplague | looks |
| 14:24.28 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I prefers the stk1000 since it got a nice lcd and sd/mmc and also a CF |
| 14:24.51 | prpplague | sjhill: ahh very interesting, that looks to be just a programmer though |
| 14:25.45 | sjhill | yeah |
| 14:26.03 | prpplague | sjhill: nice looking tool |
| 14:26.25 | prpplague | sjhill: very similiar to the flyswatter |
| 14:26.40 | sjhill | prpplague: did you have a picture of the new clear case? i saw the first gen one |
| 14:26.52 | prpplague | sjhill: the flyswatter could do the avr isp, just don't have anything setup for it |
| 14:27.03 | prpplague | sjhill: just the ones at the bottom of the elinux.org page |
| 14:27.25 | prpplague | sjhill: oops, looks like they didn't get moved over in the wiki switch |
| 14:27.32 | prpplague | sjhill: one sec let me update the wiki |
| 14:28.04 | sjhill | k |
| 14:28.08 | sjhill | was wondering about that |
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| 14:34.00 | prpplague | sjhill: updated - http://www.elinux.org/Nail_Board |
| 14:35.18 | sjhill | omg |
| 14:35.23 | sjhill | LCD? |
| 14:35.37 | prpplague | sjhill: yea, a little 128x128 |
| 14:35.45 | sjhill | that is wicked |
| 14:35.49 | prpplague | sjhill: thoughts on the case? |
| 14:35.55 | sjhill | uh |
| 14:35.59 | sjhill | it'll do |
| 14:36.02 | sjhill | :) |
| 14:36.06 | prpplague | sjhill: hehe |
| 14:36.20 | prpplague | sjhill: its a starting point |
| 14:36.23 | sjhill | it's certainly not pretty, but i understand the cost |
| 14:36.28 | sjhill | indeed |
| 14:36.35 | sjhill | can't wait to buy one of these |
| 14:36.37 | prpplague | sjhill: yea |
| 14:36.42 | sjhill | does the screen come with it? |
| 14:36.55 | prpplague | sjhill: naw, that was just a test board i was playing with |
| 14:37.12 | sjhill | how much to get one with the screen? |
| 14:37.14 | prpplague | sjhill: we'll post the info on how to wire up the lcd and reference parts and such |
| 14:37.30 | sjhill | let me know when that's up |
| 14:37.31 | prpplague | sjhill: i guess we probably could do a small lcd board for like $30-40 |
| 14:37.36 | sjhill | sold |
| 14:37.42 | prpplague | sjhill: i'll check into it |
| 14:37.46 | sjhill | thx |
| 14:38.10 | prpplague | sjhill: we are just now finishing out beta testing |
| 14:38.16 | sjhill | k |
| 14:38.20 | prpplague | sjhill: gotta make a couple board layout changes |
| 14:38.29 | prpplague | sjhill: but other than that its ready |
| 14:39.01 | prpplague | sjhill: i'm about 2 weeks behind because i got real sick for about 2 weeks |
| 14:43.40 | prpplague | oh i sooo want one of these - http://www.truedimensions.com/lego/customs/2001/index.htm |
| 15:10.04 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 15:11.42 | prpplague | ug |
| 15:11.47 | prpplague | whats with ti.com today |
| 15:16.55 | agaffney | looks like it's missing a stylesheet |
| 15:24.11 | Dr{Who} | prpplague.. i have an atmel based board called an AMBER or WS128 board. it come with a parallel programmer that works with pony prog was wondering if the fly swatter would also work with it. It has an ISP programming port a 10 pin header. |
| 15:24.50 | Dr{Who} | i understand that JTAG interface is a standard. the ISP port is also a standard? |
| 15:27.08 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: ISP is basically a version of SPI, really anything that can bit bang gpio's can do ISP, its just a matter of having the software support it |
| 15:27.32 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: to use the flyswatter with something like avrdude, we'd need to add some definitions for the gpio's and such |
| 15:30.37 | Dr{Who} | k |
| 15:31.01 | Dr{Who} | so the physical device can do this its all a matter of building an adapter and software |
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| 16:01.46 | sunrunner20 | how do you change the target location again when compiling something |
| 16:07.46 | Dr{Who} | -o ? |
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| 16:10.06 | CosmicPenguin | http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/03/17/good-bye-ipkg-welcome-opkg/ |
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| 16:24.54 | agaffney | CosmicPenguin: mmm, I like it |
| 16:25.02 | SpeedEvil | For those in the UK: |
| 16:25.08 | SpeedEvil | http://www.ebuyer.com/product/127690 |
| 16:25.24 | SpeedEvil | cheap robot vacuum cleaner with lots of robotic goodness! |
| 16:25.39 | agaffney | lame |
| 16:25.43 | agaffney | hugs his Roomba |
| 16:25.59 | SpeedEvil | This seems to be an original roomba clone. |
| 16:26.32 | agaffney | unless you can make it sing and dance, it's no roomba! |
| 16:26.34 | SpeedEvil | I was more meaning for the purposes of ripping out the cleaning bits and adding whatever. |
| 16:26.51 | SpeedEvil | It's even got a hammer socket! |
| 16:27.08 | SpeedEvil | (DIP40, warranty void if you assume that the hammer will actually work in it) |
| 16:27.22 | agaffney | heh |
| 16:28.21 | SpeedEvil | I'm quite surprised that anything would use DIP40 microcontrollers with UV windows in a volume commercial product nowadays. |
| 16:34.05 | Dr{Who} | well sure we all have some z80's left in our closets : c ) |
| 16:38.18 | SpeedEvil | True, but that board could have been 1985 vintage. |
| 16:38.50 | SpeedEvil | http://www.freewebs.com/jamiesrobots/m288robotvacuum.htm oops - forgot I'd not posted the dissasembly |
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| 16:41.07 | Dr{Who} | wow classic example of parts recycling.. |
| 16:41.56 | SpeedEvil | I suppose it's possible it's a design off the recycle list. |
| 16:42.09 | SpeedEvil | See what micros you can get cheap in 50K |
| 16:42.21 | Dr{Who} | look at all the thru hole parts |
| 16:44.09 | Dr{Who} | that probably is a z80 or 8080 sheesh.. |
| 16:44.26 | SpeedEvil | I don't think there are UV Z80s |
| 16:44.32 | SpeedEvil | I thought they were all external ROM |
| 16:44.38 | SpeedEvil | 8051 is likely |
| 16:45.42 | prpplague | what are we talking about? |
| 16:45.55 | SpeedEvil | http://www.freewebs.com/jamiesrobots/m288robotvacuum.htm |
| 16:46.04 | SpeedEvil | A clone of the Roomba room cleaning robot |
| 16:46.07 | SpeedEvil | Cheap |
| 16:46.29 | prpplague | ahh |
| 16:47.56 | Dr{Who} | ya i dont think they ever had eprom.. hmm wonder what it is.. |
| 16:48.04 | SpeedEvil | With lots of motors and quadrature encody goodness. |
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| 16:50.05 | RobotGuy | How about a Khepera III? |
| 16:50.29 | RobotGuy | www.k-team.com |
| 16:51.11 | Dr{Who} | MD8741A/B |
| 16:51.38 | RobotGuy | I know! A Koala II! |
| 16:52.50 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 16:53.15 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: but it's half the price of the 'wheeled platform' and that doesn't have batteries, bump sensors, cliff sensors, or a cleaner! :) |
| 16:53.39 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: looks interesting |
| 16:55.21 | RobotGuy | I've been looking at PyRo (Python Robotics) and what it requires to run. |
| 16:55.46 | RobotGuy | I think most of what it wants is for the GUI interface on a host PC. |
| 16:56.14 | RobotGuy | http://pyrorobotics.org |
| 16:57.08 | RobotGuy | I think I managed to force buildroot to do my biddings. :) |
| 16:58.48 | RobotGuy | Or maybe it is more like coerce than force.. ;) |
| 17:00.27 | RobotGuy | sits quietly and twiddles his appendages |
| 17:03.55 | CosmicPenguin | ummm... |
| 17:03.59 | CosmicPenguin | this is a family channel |
| 17:04.26 | SpeedEvil | He's got more than one of them! Freak. |
| 17:04.45 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 17:11.06 | RobotGuy | ~fishslap SpeedEvil |
| 17:11.06 | purl | ACTION slaps SpeedEvil up side the head with a wet fish. |
| 17:11.18 | RobotGuy | :P |
| 17:14.48 | RobotGuy | I can fully assemble W.A.L.T.E.R. now. :) I just have to get four 1" holes drilled in two of the decks. |
| 17:15.14 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 17:16.11 | RobotGuy | I had all four decks on W.A.L.T.E.R. and he did look rather magnificant. :) |
| 17:16.56 | RobotGuy | 2" between bottom and second decks and 2 1/2" between 2nd and 3rd and 3rd and 4th. |
| 17:17.27 | RobotGuy | Plus ground clearance from a pair of 5" off road tires. |
| 17:17.45 | SpeedEvil | I want a decent underfloor bot. |
| 17:18.02 | RobotGuy | Underfloor, eh? Basement bot? |
| 17:18.23 | SpeedEvil | 8cm or so tyres, ground clearance of 3cm, run either way up. |
| 17:18.36 | RobotGuy | Ahhhhhhh, I see. |
| 17:18.43 | SpeedEvil | I have a suspended floor. |
| 17:19.00 | RobotGuy | Common comfiguration of some small Sumo bots. |
| 17:19.15 | SpeedEvil | This is composed of a sandy surface, on which are constructed several 30cm or so dwarf walls. |
| 17:19.40 | SpeedEvil | At right angles are joists, which hold the floorboards. |
| 17:19.49 | RobotGuy | W.A.L.T.E.R. looks like a mishaped tophat on wheels. |
| 17:20.06 | SpeedEvil | I'd like to be able to run cables and staple stuff to the underside of the floor. |
| 17:20.20 | RobotGuy | Good use for a robot. |
| 17:20.37 | RobotGuy | Put a Hammer on it. :) |
| 17:20.58 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: a 6 year old would be better, but pesky labour laws... |
| 17:21.15 | RobotGuy | Ha ha, yeah, that might get ya in some trouble.. |
| 17:21.42 | RobotGuy | Headline reads: Man jailed for trying to replace a robot with a 6 year old. |
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| 17:21.54 | SpeedEvil | 'I have a circular saw, and could have cut him out if he got stuck' may not fly with the judge. |
| 17:22.15 | RobotGuy | I think you would be in beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeg trouble.. |
| 17:22.59 | RobotGuy | Followup: Judge slaps man for trying to set robotics technology back to the dark ages |
| 17:23.56 | RobotGuy | Hey Dr{Who}, wht's up? |
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| 18:07.05 | SpeedEvil | rob: http://www.mauve.plus.com/underfloor.jpg - the underside of the floorboards, with a joist to either side and a dwarf wall in the foreground. My ideal robot could paint/spray a vapour barrier on the underside of the floorboards, then put 4" insulation in between the joists. |
| 18:31.24 | Dr{Who} | http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/tux-droid-review.ars |
| 18:33.02 | Dr{Who} | not mucho robot.. how about u. read the history here saw you were not feeling well.. hope you feel better.. |
| 18:33.25 | Dr{Who} | all the positive thoughts i can muster headed your way. |
| 18:46.58 | ds2 | Morning |
| 18:47.28 | prpplague | ds2: greetings |
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| 18:49.09 | ds2 | is there a public list/table comparing available low cost (in single quantity) ARM boards that are full Linux capable? |
| 18:50.02 | Dr{Who} | i thought i saw on.. on one of the edev or embdeded wiki pages... but i dont recall exactly where. |
| 18:50.48 | prpplague | ds2: i don't think there is a comparison chart |
| 18:50.54 | prpplague | ds2: that would be handy though |
| 18:51.23 | ds2 | prpplague: yep. in that case, I might put one together... it seems every board has one or two unique features |
| 19:04.03 | SpeedEvil | And then there are all the other consumer devices |
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| 19:17.25 | ds2 | just a table for "boards" not repurposed devices |
| 19:17.59 | ds2 | so far I have the hammer, the 2 gumstixs, TI beagle, and the QuickByte board... anything else out there? |
| 19:19.38 | SpeedEvil | there is that chinese vendor... |
| 19:19.46 | ds2 | ? |
| 19:20.14 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. |
| 19:20.18 | SpeedEvil | I forgot again. |
| 19:20.26 | SpeedEvil | There is a b in the name. |
| 19:20.34 | ds2 | what proc? |
| 19:21.08 | SpeedEvil | Same as hammer on some |
| 19:21.26 | ds2 | oh... :( I know the least about the samsung proc boards |
| 19:24.20 | prpplague | ds2: might add the littlechips boards |
| 19:24.36 | ds2 | looks |
| 19:24.39 | prpplague | ds2: as well as the boards from simtec |
| 19:26.02 | ds2 | The littlechips is out of the target price range... I am using an arbitrary $250 max figure |
| 19:26.43 | ds2 | don't see a price on the simtec site |
| 19:26.45 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: do you remember what I was thinking of? chinese vendor of 2410/2440/... boards, small ones. |
| 19:27.08 | SpeedEvil | That have minimum orders of 10, and prices in the $40-80 range |
| 19:27.29 | ds2 | so that means $800 for someone that wants a single board!? |
| 19:28.09 | SpeedEvil | well - yes, if you don't group order, or sell it. |
| 19:30.16 | SpeedEvil | http://www.developmentboard.net/index.php/productlist/products |
| 19:30.16 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea, i remember, tomw got some |
| 19:31.16 | prpplague | http://www.armkits.com/ |
| 19:34.00 | SpeedEvil | Ah yeah - those ones. |
| 19:42.49 | ds2 | does the S3C210A have a MMU? |
| 19:42.58 | SpeedEvil | do you mean 2410 |
| 19:43.00 | SpeedEvil | then yes |
| 19:45.32 | ds2 | yes, typo... explains why I couldn't get a hit on google ;) |
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| 20:30.39 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: did you say you were attending CELF ? or just the linux plumbers conference? |
| 20:34.52 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 20:40.23 | CosmicPenguin | I am not attending CELF |
| 20:47.56 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ahh |
| 20:48.14 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i figured with the new critter you'd be choosing your conferences carefullu |
| 20:48.15 | prpplague | y |
| 20:48.54 | CosmicPenguin | indeed |
| 20:49.03 | CosmicPenguin | the lack of a travel budget helps too |
| 20:49.10 | prpplague | don't i know |
| 20:50.38 | ds2 | when is CELF? |
| 20:51.28 | prpplague | Consumer Electronics Linux Forum |
| 20:51.38 | prpplague | ds2: they are the ones that sponsor the elinux.org wiki |
| 20:51.52 | prpplague | ds2: oh you said when |
| 20:52.05 | prpplague | ds2: april 15-17 iirc |
| 20:53.21 | ds2 | oh right DURING ESC |
| 20:53.22 | prpplague | ds2: 15-17 - http://embeddedlinuxconference.com/elc2008/index.html |
| 20:53.49 | ds2 | I heard it was a ESC conflict :/ |
| 20:55.49 | CosmicPenguin | How many geeks end up at esc anyway? |
| 20:56.41 | prpplague | i don't know, i would like to attend esc, but its not my first choice |
| 20:56.44 | ds2 | hmmm thought the CELF stuff was free for member companies... no mention of that |
| 20:57.07 | ds2 | I learned at lot at the free ESC talks so I think they are worthwhile |
| 20:59.41 | Dr{Who} | what was the event in portland comeing up? |
| 21:00.00 | CosmicPenguin | plumbers conference |
| 21:00.10 | Dr{Who} | k |
| 21:00.30 | Dr{Who} | i will be at that one and bring 3 of my coders.. |
| 21:00.34 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: did landley ever ship that hammer eval kit to you? |
| 21:00.34 | Dr{Who} | maybe 4 |
| 21:00.45 | Dr{Who} | yes i have it and already ported my os to it. |
| 21:00.51 | Dr{Who} | took me about 15 hours |
| 21:01.01 | prpplague | fun fun |
| 21:01.02 | Dr{Who} | so i was pleased how easy it was. |
| 21:01.12 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: did you post anything on the wiki? |
| 21:01.40 | Dr{Who} | [root@HAMMER ~]# apkg -b etc |
| 21:01.40 | Dr{Who} | apkg: backing up etc |
| 21:01.40 | Dr{Who} | apkg: creating new archive (/tmp/etc.ufo)... |
| 21:01.41 | Dr{Who} | [root@HAMMER ~]# |
| 21:01.41 | ds2 | prpplague: has anyone tried making a weather proof hammer ? |
| 21:01.54 | Dr{Who} | no i need an account. i have a few notes.. |
| 21:02.14 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: account registration is free and only takes a couple of minutes |
| 21:02.23 | prpplague | ds2: no, but there is no reason you couldn't |
| 21:02.24 | Dr{Who} | nothing much though just regarding openocd and not using the latest use the provided bin for now |
| 21:02.32 | Dr{Who} | ok so its an open public wiki.. |
| 21:02.34 | Dr{Who} | was not sure. |
| 21:02.51 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: the provided bin or the source included on the cd |
| 21:05.16 | ds2 | prpplague: you think the board on the will handle the thermal cycling of being on and outside 24x7? |
| 21:06.04 | prpplague | ds2: should |
| 21:06.09 | prpplague | ds2: we use wide temp parts |
| 21:06.17 | *** join/#edev ico2_ (n=ico2@modem-1275.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 21:07.17 | ds2 | prpplague: as a back of the envelope guess... how would you handle using the hammer to control a 24V signals? 1 transistor? |
| 21:07.31 | SpeedEvil | What current? |
| 21:07.42 | prpplague | ds2: thats kinda out of my experience area |
| 21:07.49 | SpeedEvil | And switching in the ground or supply line? |
| 21:07.51 | ds2 | donno... maybe 1A... a sprinkler solenoid valve |
| 21:08.05 | SpeedEvil | For switching grounds, a power FET would do well. |
| 21:08.22 | ds2 | something like the hammer seems to be the easiest way of getting a network programmable sprinkler |
| 21:08.39 | SpeedEvil | I'd disagree. |
| 21:08.41 | SpeedEvil | ngw100 |
| 21:08.58 | chouimat|work | SpeedEvil: nah stk1000 ;) |
| 21:09.10 | ds2 | why the NGW? not sure how it can be easier |
| 21:09.25 | ds2 | oh by network I mean wireless network (either BT or WiFi) |
| 21:09.26 | SpeedEvil | It's got builtin ethernet |
| 21:09.31 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 21:09.51 | Dr{Who} | so one change i would like approval to do is on Hammer_How_to_build_Kernel it referrs to teh size changes that need to be done but it does not talk about the 3rd place and thats openocd. |
| 21:09.53 | ds2 | problem with ethernet is I'd need to run special cables outside and have a weatherhead where it exits the bldg |
| 21:10.24 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: you don't need permission to make changes |
| 21:10.36 | Dr{Who} | i know im just asking cus its your doc.. |
| 21:10.48 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: but there shouldn't be any changes in the openocd script for the size |
| 21:10.56 | Dr{Who} | i know you can reverse it if you dont like it but why should i bother if you know its already clear somewhere else : c ) |
| 21:11.06 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: not my doc, hehe, not sure who wrote that one |
| 21:12.36 | Dr{Who} | sorry i ment apex |
| 21:12.55 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: ahh ok |
| 21:13.40 | prpplague | Crofton: there a good omap linux channel these days? |
| 21:13.55 | ds2 | "good" hHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH |
| 21:13.59 | Crofton | not really |
| 21:14.03 | Crofton | #ol is dead |
| 21:14.18 | Crofton | there are some guys in the beagle board channel #beagle |
| 21:14.35 | prpplague | Crofton: anyone discussing the new omap chips yet? |
| 21:14.50 | ds2 | prpplague: define "new" |
| 21:15.24 | prpplague | the ones that were annouced just a couple of weeks ago |
| 21:15.41 | SpeedEvil | ds2: where are you |
| 21:15.46 | SpeedEvil | (country) |
| 21:15.46 | ds2 | beagle is based on the one of those, the 3430 |
| 21:15.47 | prpplague | the cortex based ones |
| 21:15.50 | ds2 | SpeedEvil: USA |
| 21:15.57 | ds2 | yep that's the beagle board |
| 21:16.22 | prpplague | i thought the models were 35xx |
| 21:16.45 | ds2 | same thing, renumbered for "political" purposes |
| 21:17.12 | Crofton | what are political purposes |
| 21:17.26 | chouimat|work | Crofton: maketing |
| 21:17.32 | Crofton | heh |
| 21:17.43 | ds2 | <-- not at liberty to comment on that |
| 21:18.02 | Crofton | TI's marketing guys confuse the crap out of me |
| 21:18.38 | prpplague | Crofton: i think they probably confuse the crap out of themselves |
| 21:19.01 | prpplague | i didn't even think TI had any linux staff anymore |
| 21:19.03 | Crofton | I think marketing guys are like that in general |
| 21:19.05 | SpeedEvil | ds2: do you know what a MOSFET is? |
| 21:19.23 | ds2 | SpeedEvil: uh.. yes |
| 21:19.33 | prpplague | jeeze you have to be a member to even read the beagle mailing list |
| 21:19.51 | Crofton | it isn't that exciting :) |
| 21:20.16 | ds2 | the linux-omap list is halfway helpful |
| 21:20.30 | prpplague | Crofton: hehe |
| 21:20.40 | prpplague | Crofton: well i was just curious about the specs of the board |
| 21:20.50 | Crofton | ask in #beagle |
| 21:20.58 | Crofton | they know a lot about the stuff |
| 21:21.00 | prpplague | Crofton: when do they expect to have boards available |
| 21:21.05 | Crofton | ask them :) |
| 21:21.16 | prpplague | Crofton: yea, i generally try to research before asking, i tend to get flamed |
| 21:21.23 | Crofton | we already have OE building for it, sort off |
| 21:21.27 | SpeedEvil | ds2: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=497-4340-5-ND looks like it'sd suit. |
| 21:21.31 | Crofton | well, they said about a month |
| 21:21.43 | ds2 | prpplague: that is gleenable from www.beagleboard.org and the flickr images |
| 21:21.45 | Crofton | and I want to ask again, but I fgured I'd let you ask :) |
| 21:21.58 | prpplague | hehe |
| 21:22.14 | SpeedEvil | ds2: you basically connect source to the ground supply (that the hammer is also connected to) and a 1K resistor from the output pin of the hammer to the gate terminal. |
| 21:22.27 | prpplague | ds2: yea the flicker images didn't tell me much |
| 21:22.33 | Dr{Who} | ok can you proof that see if makes sense to you.. it does to me but thats cus i wrote it :/ |
| 21:22.40 | SpeedEvil | ds2: then the drain terminal is connected between v+ and your FET. |
| 21:22.47 | SpeedEvil | ds2: then the drain terminal is connected between v+ and your load. |
| 21:22.48 | ds2 | SpeedEvil: I know how to do it; it is just other factors like failure modes from the repeated back EMFs |
| 21:23.00 | ds2 | prpplague: what specs do you need? ;) |
| 21:23.56 | prpplague | ds2: just the basics, ram chipset, flash chipset, processor type, expansion |
| 21:24.10 | prpplague | ds2: i figured it would be up on their wiki |
| 21:24.33 | ds2 | prpplague: that is on the images, I think let me see if that changed |
| 21:25.15 | SpeedEvil | ds2: that particular FET is rated at 120mJ avalanhe energy, so it's probably not a concern. However, connecting a 1n4007 diode across the coil so that it conducts when the FET side of the coil goes positive. |
| 21:25.20 | Crofton | expansion is basically by usb |
| 21:25.35 | ds2 | prpplague: it is an OMAP3430 or whatever the new number is; there are 2 different usb controllers on that thing and both are brought out |
| 21:25.54 | ds2 | no LCD drive signals (I asked them) but there is DVI out and NTSC video out |
| 21:26.15 | prpplague | wonders how much the TI evm costs |
| 21:26.29 | ds2 | SpeedEvil: other then the drive current - why would you choose a MOSFET? |
| 21:26.34 | Crofton | LCD signals would have driven them to additional layers I think |
| 21:26.37 | prpplague | TI is currently taking orders for the OMAP35x EVM which will be available early in the second quarter for $1,500. |
| 21:26.50 | ds2 | Crofton: yep, that's what they said |
| 21:26.59 | prpplague | once again TI prices the design out of the reach for developers |
| 21:27.07 | Crofton | hopefully beagle is 1/10 of that |
| 21:27.55 | SpeedEvil | ds2: that's pretty much it. |
| 21:27.55 | prpplague | ds2: why no lcd? |
| 21:28.03 | Crofton | prpplague, price |
| 21:28.08 | Crofton | more complex board |
| 21:28.23 | Crofton | they are trying to make it as cheap as possible |
| 21:28.23 | ds2 | prpplague: I can't find the reference but I think the guy I heard it from said it'll be around $160ish |
| 21:28.27 | prpplague | doesn't understand that |
| 21:28.47 | ds2 | prpplague: the OMAP3430 is a nasty tiny balls package and they are trying to limit the use of blind vias |
| 21:29.10 | prpplague | checks that package info on the omap3430 |
| 21:29.27 | ds2 | I think you need to look for 3530 data |
| 21:29.45 | ds2 | 3430 doesn't exists to mere mortals even though it is mentioned on the public linux-omap list |
| 21:31.32 | prpplague | ti's web site is soooooo slow today |
| 21:31.40 | ds2 | is it ever fast? ;) |
| 21:31.52 | ds2 | maybe you are "local" to them normally? |
| 21:34.00 | prpplague | no its never that fast, but its positively crawling today |
| 21:38.21 | prpplague | ds2: which package are they using? |
| 21:38.37 | ds2 | BGA 0.7mm I think |
| 21:38.54 | prpplague | ds2: thats probably the .65mm |
| 21:39.03 | prpplague | ds2: 423 pins |
| 21:39.18 | prpplague | thats not too bad |
| 21:39.26 | ds2 | just going by what I was told as I haven't swam out of their 2000page TRM's ;) |
| 21:39.49 | ds2 | prpplague: they told me to do the LCD controller pins, it would add another 2 layers |
| 21:40.27 | ds2 | cuz the LCD controller would let me use a $5 LCD instead of a $70 NTSC display... plus I have code from the SDP that would work for that |
| 21:40.57 | prpplague | ds2: that seems rather odd |
| 21:41.10 | prpplague | ds2: but i suspect they are doing something i'm not familiar with |
| 21:41.30 | ds2 | prpplague: it is a lot of wires to bring out compared to DVI or NTSC |
| 21:41.38 | prpplague | indeed |
| 21:42.02 | prpplague | Crofton: which omap are you working with these days? |
| 21:43.47 | Crofton | none at the moment |
| 21:44.11 | Crofton | I need to do a little linux on davnci work , and I am trying to get a beagle board |
| 21:44.21 | Crofton | beagle can talk direct to a USRP |
| 21:44.40 | ds2 | Crofton: what interface is on the USRP? |
| 21:44.55 | Crofton | usb high speed |
| 21:45.01 | ds2 | ah |
| 21:45.14 | prpplague | Crofton: ahh |
| 21:45.16 | ds2 | Crofton: if you are willing to do OMAP, why wait for the beagle? |
| 21:46.27 | Crofton | the other cheap one does not have high speed usb |
| 21:46.48 | ds2 | Crofton: Nokia N800 - OMAP2420 has the same MUSB block as the beagle |
| 21:46.57 | ds2 | sub $300, complete with LCD |
| 21:47.07 | Crofton | does it really do high speed? |
| 21:47.21 | ds2 | yes |
| 21:47.57 | ds2 | even has a built in DSP if you can figure out how to load it w/o docs ;) |
| 21:48.31 | Crofton | yeah, that is the piece I need to work out (dsp) |
| 21:48.38 | Crofton | gotta run, need to make some dinner |
| 21:48.56 | CosmicPenguin | heh - bzflag is a google summmer of code mentor |
| 21:49.16 | prpplague | another victory for busybox - http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=206904096&subSection=News |
| 21:49.24 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: tim is mentoring? |
| 21:50.12 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: sure seemed that TI kinda broke Tim's spirit about embedded linux work |
| 21:50.23 | CosmicPenguin | Does he still work for the church? |
| 21:50.43 | prpplague | yea |
| 21:50.54 | prpplague | iirc he manages a bunch of the ancestry.com servers |
| 21:51.04 | prpplague | giant db |
| 21:51.07 | CosmicPenguin | thats a massive job |
| 21:51.29 | prpplague | yea |
| 21:52.00 | ds2 | sigh.. another settlement |
| 21:52.32 | prpplague | it was kind of strange, TI hired all those people(including me) , then all of sudden decided they weren't going to purse linux, and basically fired everyone |
| 21:53.10 | prpplague | like within 6 months there weren't any linux devrs left |
| 21:54.27 | prpplague | i know ol' kergoth had alot of trouble adjust to the TI environment |
| 21:55.19 | Dr{Who} | why is it such a big deal. All the company has to do is publish the config to busybox? is it more complex than that? |
| 21:55.57 | ds2 | it would have been more interesting to have an official ruling on it |
| 21:55.58 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: they did do some busybox modifications, but yes it pretty much boils down to all they had to do is post the source |
| 21:56.29 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: there is an attitude among many large companies like verizon and actiontec that they don't have to comply |
| 21:57.06 | Dr{Who} | k so any mods specific to any open source they would publish. Its not like they have to publish src to anything they use on the devices like custom bin's or init's that form the basis of the sytsem. |
| 21:57.07 | prpplague | they want the benefits of opensource without having to comply with the release of source |
| 21:57.40 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: correct |
| 21:58.13 | Dr{Who} | ya. being a software company i get edgy about fsf and such where anything i write is yours if i use it in conjunction with anything that is fsf but gnu 1/2 are not that bad. |
| 21:58.15 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: the current tactic that companies are using is the fact that actiontec developed the device, which verizon purchase and sold to it's customers |
| 21:58.52 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: verizon then says its actiontec's responsibility to release the code, and actiontec says they can;t without verizons approvale |
| 21:59.00 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: basically pointing the finger at each other |
| 21:59.05 | Dr{Who} | heeh. silly.. |
| 21:59.10 | prpplague | indeed |
| 21:59.14 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: very common |
| 21:59.38 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: same argument is used with things like the juicebox, its made by emsoft but sold by mattel |
| 21:59.43 | Dr{Who} | i have my own distro that someday i will open up but i will still control the init scripts but for now i keep my pain down because i dont sell it. I only provide a firewall services to customers.. i own the box |
| 21:59.48 | Dr{Who} | best i can tell this is ok. |
| 22:00.10 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: emsoft says not without mattel's approval and mattell says its emsofts responsibility |
| 22:00.23 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 22:00.23 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 22:00.33 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: re |
| 22:02.19 | Dr{Who} | I had considered opening it up but LEAF has like 6 branches already.. I started out with 2,0 kernel and what is called LRP only reason i did my own was they were not focusing on vpn's or high load devices.. just soho stuff. |
| 22:02.53 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp113.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 22:03.35 | Dr{Who} | the main idea is you have a diskless os running from CF disk. backup's of running configs only happen if you ask.. so if i modify /etc/hosts i would backup the etc package or it would be lost on next reboot. This on the hammer is nice because you dont have to flash again unless you want to change the init. |
| 22:04.15 | Dr{Who} | i just make a new package called myprog.ufo and put it on the flash and tell my initscript to load it at next boot. |
| 22:20.22 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@72.51.66.248) |
| 22:45.52 | SpeedEvil | Cool locomotion: |
| 22:45.57 | SpeedEvil | http://www.bostondynamics.com/content/sec.php?section=RHex |
| 22:46.44 | SpeedEvil | Better than a wheel, using 1/2 of a rim. |
| 23:07.08 | *** join/#edev ico2__ (n=ico2@modem-4027.cheetah.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 23:24.04 | Mirell | Oh snap, I got a BlackBerry at work today. |
| 23:43.15 | agaffney | Mirell: I'm sorry |
| 23:46.45 | Mirell | Thanks. |
| 23:53.49 | Dr{Who} | still have my bb 957 and the box it came it.. im using the curve now so far i like it. Its a year old and was beat up a bit but still workin. |
| 23:54.31 | agaffney | I love my Treo 650 |
| 23:54.39 | agaffney | I just put a custom firmware on it over the weekend |
| 23:54.46 | Dr{Who} | i still hear my co workers bitch about the pda phones they have and i think they have tried them all. |
| 23:54.54 | agaffney | got rid of the Cingular crap, a few of the scheduling things, and versamail |
| 23:54.57 | Mirell | Well, it's just kind of amusing, |
| 23:55.03 | Mirell | I personally own an iPhone |
| 23:55.07 | agaffney | and stuck chattermail and a few things on there |
| 23:55.10 | agaffney | Mirell: ewwwwwwwww |
| 23:55.15 | Mirell | And now when on-call, have to carry a BlackBerry |
| 23:55.17 | Mirell | agaffney: What? |
| 23:56.11 | agaffney | iphone |
| 23:56.21 | Dr{Who} | i would be ok with a plam phone.. just not a M$ phone. iphone.. maybe.. |
| 23:59.11 | SpeedEvil | wishes openmoko would get ready for end-users soon. |
| 23:59.25 | CosmicPenguin | They aren't microsoft phones |
| 23:59.30 | CosmicPenguin | Microsoft just provides the operating system |
| 23:59.32 | CosmicPenguin | get it st raight |
