IRC log for #edev on 20080321

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03:31.11SpeedEvilI don't know if it could reach your pricepoint, but asking prpplague about volume discounts on tincantools.com 's hammer, over on #edev may be interesting
03:31.18SpeedEviloops
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15:51.40*** join/#edev ce_geek (n=ce_geek@roger-blanchette-4.umelst.maine.edu)
16:03.46ce_geekDoes the hammer board have a 32MB address space?
16:03.57SpeedEvilNo
16:04.07SpeedEvil4G I think
16:04.11SpeedEvilbut it has 32M RAM
16:04.48ce_geekAlright, time to go figure that out.
16:05.18ce_geekI see the data bus, 2 bytes wide.  I see 24 address lines, 2^24 = 16M, multiply by the two bytes to get 32.
16:05.51SpeedEvilwhat do you actually want to know?
16:07.23SpeedEvilIt's a maximum of 128M/bank
16:07.26SpeedEvilAnd 8 banks
16:07.54ce_geekI'm just looking at the nitty gritty of how the processor is implemented on the hammer board.  Not all the address and data lines are connected.  It looks like its set up just nicely to work with 32 megs as implemented.
16:08.23ce_geekSo the actual processor has a larger memory space, but the hammer board is only set up to interface with 32 megs.
16:09.55SpeedEvilThe RAM can be simpy swapped to get 64M
16:09.56ce_geeklook at that.  Right from the website: 16M x 16 bit
16:09.59SpeedEvilAs I understand it
16:10.10SpeedEvila 32M*16 chip
16:10.15ce_geekYeah who was asking about that?
16:10.45ce_geekI see.  To address 32M you'd need an extra address line though.
16:10.50SpeedEvilAs I understand it, 128M would require a 16M*32
16:10.54SpeedEvilin one bank
16:11.10SpeedEvilOr two 64*16
16:11.23SpeedEvilce_geek: the banks can be 8-32 bits wide
16:11.42SpeedEvilgoogle um_s3c2410a_rev11.pdf
16:11.48SpeedEvilpage 191
16:11.54ce_geekYeah, but you couldn't just swap the chip on the hammer board because those address lines aren't connected, looking at the schematic.
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16:12.20ce_geekOh, Yeah!  The processor can do it, but you can't just pop the memory chip off the hammer board and replace it with another one and have more memory
16:12.42SpeedEvilwell - prppl earlier said you could - it's possible he may be mistaken.
16:12.44ce_geekThe address / data lines that are not connected on the hammer board need to be used.
16:12.55ce_geekWere you the one looking to add memory?
16:13.45SpeedEvilI was wondering about the possibility.
16:14.29ce_geekI guess I'd have to look at more details about how the board is layed out.  I'm only assuming that since there are address and data pins that don't go anywhere on the schematic for the hammer board that there aren't traces for them.  That could be a bad assumption.
16:15.39ce_geekHmmn is there a gerber file for the hammer file somewhere?
16:20.14SpeedEvilProbably :)
16:20.25SpeedEvilI don't know if it's pubic.
16:20.28SpeedEvil^l
16:20.56ce_geekI thought it was open firmware.
16:21.13SpeedEvilThere are degrees of open.
16:21.34ce_geekHaha, true :)
16:21.57SpeedEvilThe gerber makes it trivial to send an order for 1000 hammers to your favourite board house, not tct
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16:26.13ce_geekTrue :)
16:26.52SpeedEvilWell - modulo sourcing
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16:33.42SpeedEvilRobotGuy: got gadget ethernet working?
16:33.55SpeedEvilOr not been working on it
16:39.32RobotGuySpeedEvil: No, not yet.  Have not fiddled with it lately.
16:45.44RobotGuywatches gcc get built again
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20:27.44JonHylandsHey RobotGuy
20:27.55RobotGuyHi JonHylands!
20:28.11JonHylandsDo you have any info on the Hammer wifi interface?
20:28.34JonHylandsI'm designing the board for MicroRaptor that the Hammer will sit on
20:28.49RobotGuyJonHylands: I only have what I have done so far. It is not reliable though so I have not added the info to the Wiki.
20:29.05JonHylandswhat did you do?
20:29.46RobotGuyI used a module from Ralink and load that with the other kernel modules.  It's not built into the 2.6.22 kernel, but is in the 2.6.24 kernel.
20:30.15RobotGuyThe module I have been working with does not work that well.
20:30.18JonHylandswhat kind of interface does it need?
20:30.29JonHylandsdo you know about the one TinCanTools is doing?
20:31.00RobotGuyThe ralink module comes up as rausb0 when you use ifconfig to configure the interface.
20:31.20JonHylandsno, I mean what physical interface - spi, usb?
20:31.27RobotGuyI don't remember hearing about that.
20:31.30RobotGuyIt's USB
20:32.07JonHylandsI've already got an FT232 plugged in, so I would have to add a hub to use something like that
20:32.33RobotGuyThe driver in kernel 2.6.24 definitely does work, because I can get it working on my PC Linux and Windows just fine.
20:32.49RobotGuyI am using a little 4 port USB hub now.
20:33.16JonHylandsI think the one Dave showed me was an SPI module
20:35.57RobotGuyThe adapter I have is  an http://www.edimax.com/en/produce_detail.php?pl1_id=1&pl2_id=44&pl3_id=88&pd_id=3
20:36.12RobotGuyI don't think Dave has shown me anything that uses SPI.
20:36.27RobotGuyI haven't learned how to use SPI yet.
20:37.04RobotGuyI also have a LinkSys USB WiFi adapter, but have to wait for kernel 2.6.24 to have it work.
20:37.49RobotGuyI have to figure out if I can restore my two WiFi routers.  They are, umm, well, bricked at present and make great 10/100 switches.
20:41.02JonHylandsheh
20:41.04JonHylandsoops
20:47.59RobotGuyYeah, I have two bricked routers. :( I'm not happy about that.
20:49.55JonHylandsyou should be able to reflash them
20:49.58RobotGuyI need to get a LinkSys WRT54GL, which is designed to be tinkered with.
20:50.47RobotGuyI am hoping I can reflash them, but I think I am going to need access to the internal JTAG to do that now.
20:51.08RobotGuyOne I can play dumb and exchange, but the other I have to keep.
20:52.59RobotGuyI got a LinkSys WRT54GS, which I thought was upgradable with 3rd party firmware, but it turns out it doesn't always work.
21:00.14RobotGuyBuildroot does not handle dependencies very well in some cases.
21:02.43CosmicPenguinThats make for ya
21:04.44RobotGuyI think it's the way some of the .mk files are written. What I see in some of these is scary, like somebody didn't want to really learn how to do it right and just brute forced stuff where they wanted it.
21:10.20SpeedEvilrobl or an old v1 on ebay
21:12.32ds2someone looking for a WRT54 v1? :)
21:12.52RobotGuyds2: Actually, a v4 would be better I think.
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21:13.42RobotGuyHmmm, THAT definitely was NOT the right button to press..
21:13.46ds2:)
21:14.25RobotGuyHmmm, I think I broke Buildroot.
21:15.39RobotGuyIsn't the WRT54 v4 better?  Whichever has the most flash and ram.
21:15.57ds2there probally is
21:16.08ds2i just happen to have an extra v1 lying around
21:16.10RobotGuyI have a now bricked WRT54GS v8.
21:16.39ds2ls
21:16.41ds2oops
21:17.11CosmicPenguindoh
21:17.18CosmicPenguinhugs his v8
21:17.23RobotGuyI want something I can put a full version of OpenWRT and/or DD-WRT on.
21:17.43ds2does the v8 still have the "life line" tftp in the bootloader?
21:18.06RobotGuyI like the WRT54GS, but it seems like it is not really capaple of being a real router.
21:18.17RobotGuyds2: I don't know.
21:19.13RobotGuyI have several static IPs and I want everything wired to just go straight through without hassle and wireless access.
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21:22.23RobotGuyI've had WiFi working from Hammer briefly, but it is not reliable at present.
21:24.56RobotGuyCosmicPenguin: Can the WRT54GS be a true router, with NAT disabled?
21:25.08CosmicPenguinno
21:25.16CosmicPenguinI don't think so - somebody might have a hack for it
21:25.18RobotGuyThey shouldn't be calling it a router then.
21:25.36CosmicPenguinyes, they shouldn't
21:26.02CosmicPenguinbut being anal about it isn't going to change the fact that everybody does
21:26.07RobotGuyIt's really misleading when one is really looking for a router, not a gateway.
21:26.19RobotGuyHow does one know what is a real router then?
21:26.46CosmicPenguinyou don't need special hardware to have a router
21:26.52CosmicPenguinjust a couple of network connections and a pocket full of dreams
21:27.08RobotGuyCosmicPenguin: I know, but you need firmware that makes it work.
21:27.12CosmicPenguinwhy?
21:27.33CosmicPenguinThe Linux kernel, among others are pefectly capable of managing the routing tables
21:27.39RobotGuyIf the firmware does not allow a device to be a real router, it will not be a real router.
21:27.55RobotGuyCosmicPenguin: I know that and I know I could pretty easily turn a Hammer into a router.
21:29.09RobotGuyHowever, I don't want to dedicate a $160.00 part to just being a router even though it would be much more flexible and configurable.
21:29.48CosmicPenguinThen thats a "real" router - mission accomplished
21:30.05RobotGuyCosmicPenguin: Are you talking about Hammer or other?
21:30.38RobotGuyI can't afford to dedicate a Hammer to just being a router. It's to expensive for that.
21:31.31RobotGuyI am guessing that a suitable 10/100 switch tied into a Hammer or similar could be used as a real router, since Hammer would be actually doing all the work.
21:31.55RobotGuyAm I correct?
21:34.03CosmicPenguinLet me see if I get this right - you are looking for something that can do later 3 routing - like OSPF or RIP, right?
21:34.09CosmicPenguins/later/layer/
21:35.56RobotGuyTo be truthful, I don't really know a lot about what is required for real routing, but am sure I can learn and figure it out.  That's why I still buy off the shelf equpment for that.  It's less expensive, but most 'routers' I have found are not really capable of being routers.
21:37.50RobotGuyThe little Edimax 6204 router I have worked as a real router after I disabled NAT, but it just stopped routing for some reason.
21:38.06CosmicPenguinwhat do you need to do, thats a better quesion
21:41.01RobotGuyWell, I have 8 static IP addresses, so my two PCs have their own static IP, and a router would take two IPs (LAN and WAN). Robots will each have their own IP and use WiFi.
21:41.17RobotGuyA gateway will not work for what I need.
21:41.34RobotGuyI need to be able to disable NAT, for one thing.
21:43.12CosmicPenguinokay - so you just need a regular ol' firewall
21:43.30RobotGuyYes, with WiFi.
21:43.58RobotGuyI also like the ability to filter any way I choose.
21:44.05RobotGuyOr block as needed
21:44.11CosmicPenguinTHen the WRT54G is exactly what you want
21:44.36RobotGuyIsn't the GL better since it already runs Linux?
21:45.16ds2get an asus WL500G
21:45.19CosmicPenguinyou would want one of the open firmwares, they have way more features
21:45.23RobotGuyDifferent versions of each router have different amounts of RAM and Flash.
21:45.36bsdfoxanyone got ideas on a dual-wifi capable arm board that can be had relatively cheap? (hoping for < $100)
21:45.36RobotGuyYes, I have been looking at DD_WRT and OpenWRT.
21:46.03RobotGuyWhat is the dual WiFi for?
21:46.28RobotGuyHammer can be dual WiFi with two USB WiFi adapters.
21:46.54RobotGuyUnder $100.00 might be asking a bit much though.
21:47.23RobotGuyHammer fits in a 40 pin DIP socket.
21:47.31ds2N770
21:47.36RobotGuyFull Linux on a DIP.
21:47.44ds2built in WiFi is one, and there is a USB host capability for a second port
21:48.46RobotGuyHammer has TWO USB Client/Host ports.
21:49.12bsdfoxds2: any idea on cost?
21:50.03RobotGuyI'll be on #tincantools
21:50.05*** part/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
21:50.10ds2bsdfox: around $100
21:50.18ds2less if used
21:51.04bsdfoxoh wow, that's a lot more than I was looking for :P
21:51.33bsdfoxI basically just need a *nix capable device that I can do wifi bridging with
21:51.42ds2not based on what you asked!
21:52.08ds2you said a board capable (implying it does not include the WiFi yet) for <$100...this one has one WiFi and is just a bit over $100
21:52.10ds2so :P
21:52.25ds2bsdfox: why do you need dual WiFi for that?
21:54.36bsdfoxI didn't know it was possible with just one card?
21:54.53ds2I think the athereos chips can do it with just one physical card
21:55.01ds2the madwifi docs hints at it
21:55.31ds2I assume you want to bridge btn 2 networks with different SSID's right?
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22:31.04bsdfoxright
22:31.14bsdfoxand right now I'm using 2 atheros cards :P
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22:57.09ds2you should be able to create multiple instances
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