| 00:00.23 | SpeedEvil | colors Sienna in purple. |
| 00:00.24 | MonMotha | You know, I've heard that story before, but I've never seen the paper |
| 00:00.28 | RobotGuy | Sienna: I will have some nice high resolution pictures soon. Tyberius took a lot of W.A.L.T.E.R. today. |
| 00:00.39 | Sienna | loves purple |
| 00:00.51 | MonMotha | without seeing all the background behind it, I can't say if that's actually an "oddity" or if there's a reason |
| 00:00.55 | RobotGuy | I think most girls I have ever know love purple. |
| 00:00.56 | ali_as_ | I've read the paper, but it was something like 5 years ago. |
| 00:01.09 | MonMotha | if, for example, you start clocking the FPGA faster than the timing specs say you can, very strange things can happen |
| 00:01.16 | SpeedEvil | resists making a purple-based-joke. |
| 00:01.25 | SpeedEvil | is feeling in a very silly mood. |
| 00:01.38 | Sienna | lavender is better, but purple is acceptable |
| 00:01.42 | ali_as_ | Oh I've had a lot of times when my design just didn't work. |
| 00:02.14 | MonMotha | that's very common to newbies to FPGAs, especially those who normally write software |
| 00:02.23 | MonMotha | there are almost too many factors to take into account |
| 00:02.29 | ali_as_ | Which is extremely frustrating when the simulator shows the design matching the specified parameters. |
| 00:02.47 | prpplague^2 | looks in at the mention of purple |
| 00:02.54 | MonMotha | all that said, if people are willing to launch these things into space, I think you're taking things too far in saying that they are "unreliable" |
| 00:03.08 | ali_as_ | But that's just becuase I'm just not that good, and why I'm now usin cpld's instead. |
| 00:03.19 | MonMotha | cplds are quite a lot simpler, yes |
| 00:03.29 | SpeedEvil | http://homepage.mac.com/pippyisatruck/.Pictures/run.gif damn that's clever |
| 00:03.30 | cajaka | Ali_as_, I think that FPGA paper you are talking about was published in scientific American back in the 90's |
| 00:03.30 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 00:03.33 | SpeedEvil | mischan |
| 00:03.46 | Sienna | Hello prpplague^2 |
| 00:03.54 | RobotGuy | Sienna: I have to completely remove the top deck to do any development on W.A.L.T.E.R. |
| 00:03.57 | MonMotha | ah, Scientific American, the epitome of peer-reviewed scientific journalism... |
| 00:04.03 | ali_as_ | cajaka, could have been late 90's but I read it as a pdf on a university website. |
| 00:04.34 | Sienna | RobotGuy: See, panel mount the way to go :D |
| 00:04.50 | ali_as_ | The actual problem was very simple too, 2 tone detector I think. |
| 00:05.05 | RobotGuy | Sienna: Most definitely! I would prefer to be able to mount cables where I want them. |
| 00:05.12 | *** join/#edev Sienna (n=Sienna@pool-71-125-185-199.bltmmd.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:05.18 | prpplague^2 | Sienna greetings |
| 00:05.49 | Sienna | hmm, it might actually be coloring now! Stupid programs that need restart to reload settings |
| 00:05.52 | ali_as_ | MonMotha, I'm not sure I'd say a lot simpler. |
| 00:05.59 | adyer | ali_as_: if you think FPGAs are bad, you should try going through the signoff simulations for an ASIC... |
| 00:06.03 | MonMotha | depends on what FPGA you are comparing it to... |
| 00:06.04 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Got Hammer booting from Flash now. :) 14 MB total flash availble, 25 MB RAM. |
| 00:06.19 | MonMotha | and yeah, ASIC design is a fun one |
| 00:06.27 | MonMotha | good VLSI designers are REALLY hard to come by |
| 00:06.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy good deal |
| 00:06.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy that does still seem to be less sdram that i would have expected |
| 00:06.59 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Loaded modules take some memory. |
| 00:07.06 | SpeedEvil | lsmod |
| 00:07.12 | SpeedEvil | do you really require them all? |
| 00:07.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy not that much |
| 00:07.15 | MonMotha | and I'm not one of said VLSI designers... |
| 00:07.23 | MonMotha | I draw the line at FPGAs |
| 00:07.23 | SpeedEvil | do you require all the options that you have enabled in those modules? |
| 00:07.36 | prpplague | RobotGuy i'd still like to see you /proc/meminfo |
| 00:07.38 | SpeedEvil | For example, IPV6 if you've compiled IP |
| 00:07.43 | MonMotha | at least with an FPGA, if I make a mistake, I can fix it without spending ungodly sums of money |
| 00:07.52 | adyer | MonMotha: I wouldn't want my name on the PO for masks these days... |
| 00:07.59 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/973244 |
| 00:08.22 | MonMotha | adyer: yeah. I have it bad enough that I am the sole person responsible for PCBs where I work. If that PCB has a flaw, it's my fault |
| 00:08.29 | MonMotha | at least PCBs don't cost nearly as much to rev. |
| 00:08.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy what about the meminfo? |
| 00:08.48 | ali_as_ | FPGAs need a lot of cells to accomplish anything, the xilinx stuff is based on 4 input LUTs so most problems just balloon. CPLDs on the other hand do a massive amount in just one cell very fast, I think the 9500 series has 18 input LUTs that can give a pin to pin result in 5ns for the fastest speed grade. |
| 00:08.51 | MonMotha | still a couple kilodollars to get new prototypes in fully populated with parts |
| 00:08.57 | prpplague | RobotGuy thats the one i'm interested in seeing |
| 00:08.58 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/973245 |
| 00:09.07 | ali_as_ | You'd never manage that in an FPGA, you'd have to pipeline. |
| 00:09.07 | MonMotha | ali_as_: yes, they solve different problems |
| 00:09.28 | MonMotha | also, realize that the design of cells in FPGAs differs not only with manufacturer, but with what line you're in |
| 00:09.31 | adyer | ali_as_: new fpas are moving to higher fan-in, but yes, the structures are quite different |
| 00:09.37 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I have IPV6 turned odd |
| 00:09.43 | RobotGuy | s/odd/off/ |
| 00:09.44 | MonMotha | the cell design of a Virtex 5 is very different from that of a Spartan 2 |
| 00:09.52 | prpplague | RobotGuy you've got 1220 of inactive memory |
| 00:09.59 | prpplague | RobotGuy wonder whats goblin up that |
| 00:10.06 | prpplague | RobotGuy i'll have to test on monday |
| 00:10.16 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Hmmmm, I do not know. Module stack maybe? |
| 00:10.21 | RobotGuy | OK |
| 00:10.26 | MonMotha | I've got a Virtex 2 Pro board here, and it's amazing how much smaller (and faster!) some things end up on it than, say, a Spartan 3E |
| 00:10.35 | MonMotha | while other things don't really change much at all |
| 00:11.06 | MonMotha | of course, a Virtex 2 Pro costs a lot more than a Spartan 3E :) |
| 00:11.11 | RobotGuy | has Python 2.4.2 on Flash now. :) |
| 00:11.32 | ali_as_ | I have a spartan 3e dev board here somewhere. My early failiars predate that though, it was a 4010 on my dev board and a 4005 in the design I etched. |
| 00:11.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy why do you need both the rt73 and the rt2x00 modules loaded fr |
| 00:11.59 | adyer | MonMotha: where do you work? Somewhere in Indiana? (guess from domain name) |
| 00:12.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I only load the rt73usb module. It must need something in the others. |
| 00:12.42 | prpplague | ahh indeed i didn't look closely |
| 00:12.48 | MonMotha | adyer: yes, and at a company you're almost guaranteed never to have heard of :) |
| 00:12.52 | Sienna | ok, quick question guys. I have some cheap Homedepot style Multimeter currently. As I get more and more serious into this stuff, I think I might need better tools. Is it worthwhile to upgrade to a Fluke or something, and if so, what do you recomend? (I am upgrading my RS firestarter to a Hakko station as well) |
| 00:13.04 | SpeedEvil | Well... |
| 00:13.25 | MonMotha | adyer: I've not yet done an FPGA design at work |
| 00:13.26 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@69.73.220.145) |
| 00:13.27 | SpeedEvil | I persoanally think that 3 or 4 really cheap DMMs is a good thing. |
| 00:13.32 | MonMotha | though it's a possibility at this point |
| 00:13.36 | adyer | MonMotha: lol, me too (http://www.righthandtech.com - ugly website) |
| 00:13.51 | MonMotha | we have another guy who is kinda a software/hardware bridge person (he writes lots of drivers) who is learning Verilog |
| 00:14.01 | SpeedEvil | It's really handy to be able to measure several voltages at the same time. And fluke, while lovely, is probably overkill, unless you're rich. |
| 00:14.07 | RobotGuy | Sienna: I have a Summint 35 which I like a lot, but wish I had gotten the next model up. It's made in Oregon. |
| 00:14.08 | MonMotha | http://www.forwardengineering.com/ (also an ugly website) |
| 00:14.26 | adyer | Sienna: I have a flusk 73 that has been very trusty basic unit |
| 00:14.27 | prpplague | Sienna flukes are good, but i actually use a small multimeter that they also sell at RS |
| 00:14.32 | MonMotha | looks like you guys do about the same thing as we doo |
| 00:14.32 | SpeedEvil | There are lots of decent multimeters out there for lot less than a fluke, if you don't plan to drop them off buildings often. |
| 00:14.35 | adyer | s/flusk/fluke |
| 00:15.22 | MonMotha | adyer: I'm guessing your company is a bit larger than ours, though |
| 00:15.42 | Sienna | i don't plan to drop anything off a building, no :P But i also don't want anything that is a chinese knockoff either, cause I hate china's steal and mass produce methods |
| 00:15.50 | adyer | MonMotha: maybe we should merge and make a really ugly website |
| 00:15.54 | MonMotha | adyer: hah! |
| 00:15.58 | prpplague | Sienna http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104114&cp=&sr=1&origkw=multimeter&kw=multimeter&parentPage=search |
| 00:16.16 | MonMotha | I unfortunately just learned today that my hopefully final rev PCB has a bug on it |
| 00:16.16 | RobotGuy | My Summit 35 is shock protected. :) |
| 00:16.20 | adyer | MonMotha: nah. I think we're up to like 13 people, about 6 are line worker types |
| 00:16.23 | prpplague | Sienna very few things from RS i like, but i really like that meter |
| 00:16.25 | MonMotha | but I don't think it's going to get fixed. There are acceptable workarounds |
| 00:16.32 | MonMotha | adyer: we're smaller :) |
| 00:16.42 | MonMotha | though we are likely to add a few of the line worker types here soon |
| 00:16.51 | MonMotha | if you know of anybody who wants such a position, let me know :) |
| 00:16.53 | Sienna | yeah, radioshack has fallen so far |
| 00:17.09 | prpplague | Sienna indeed |
| 00:17.12 | adyer | MonMotha: that's okay. We're having another 'what do you want to be when you grow up' meeting on monday :-( |
| 00:17.15 | prpplague | MonMotha what kind of job? |
| 00:17.53 | MonMotha | prpplague: well, we have openings for software people, possibly a EE (would be looking for more PLD design than board/circuit level), or also possibly people to work in final assembly/testing/system integration |
| 00:18.21 | MonMotha | adyer: well, my place is at least pretty nice to work at. We're just kinda in a time crunch on this project right now, so learning of such a bug, well, sucks. |
| 00:18.26 | prpplague | MonMotha ahh |
| 00:18.28 | MonMotha | I thought I had everything worked out |
| 00:18.38 | adyer | MonMotha: been there, done that :-( |
| 00:18.46 | MonMotha | most of the tasks we take on are predominantly software |
| 00:18.52 | MonMotha | adyer: yeah, sucks, don't it? |
| 00:19.30 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 00:19.32 | MonMotha | it's unfortunately just not feasible to rev the hardware at this point |
| 00:19.44 | adyer | MonMotha: yeah, we need s/w help too, need some jr. level people who don't know VB or java |
| 00:19.46 | MonMotha | lots of analog/mixed signal stuff on this board, which is what has been the problem |
| 00:20.02 | Sienna | define "junior" people :P |
| 00:20.31 | adyer | Sienna: it's more about 'junior' salary :-( |
| 00:20.40 | Sienna | and whats that? |
| 00:20.43 | prpplague | does it drive any one else crazy when a job posting has the pay scale marked as "competative" |
| 00:20.48 | MonMotha | I had another board for this project that is almost entirely digitl (and much more complicated from that point of view), and it seems to be 99% correct after just 2 revs (only known bug is a darned floating ground pin that doesn't seem to cause problems) |
| 00:21.03 | adyer | Sienna: that's part of our meeting tomorrow - how many people can we hire |
| 00:21.07 | Sienna | oh god, 'competitive' means 'we don't really care enough to stand out from the crowd' |
| 00:21.15 | RobotGuy | I have Norvac Electronics here locally, which is what Radio Shack used to be and better. |
| 00:21.16 | Sienna | i hate competitive |
| 00:21.20 | adyer | prpplague: no, doesn't bother me |
| 00:21.32 | MonMotha | competitive pretty much means "we're not looking for stand-out people, and we won't pay you as such if you are" |
| 00:21.48 | MonMotha | "competitive" means "we want somebody who's average in this field, and we'll pay average, no better" |
| 00:21.48 | adyer | Sienna: I always ask for more than they offer :-) |
| 00:21.49 | prpplague | MonMotha thats about what i get out of it |
| 00:22.24 | MonMotha | that said, if you're "average", it isn't a bad thing |
| 00:22.24 | Sienna | yeah, I really need to leave defense... its so stifling, cause I really do think I am better then 90% of my coworkers |
| 00:22.45 | adyer | prpplague: they have to put something, and they're not going to put a real number, so what's the big deal? |
| 00:22.48 | prpplague | Sienna it doesn't change |
| 00:22.52 | MonMotha | OTOH, if you think you do stand above the crowd in terms of capabilities, you may need to look for something else |
| 00:22.52 | RobotGuy | Sienna: You DID make a Tri-Pod walk. :D |
| 00:23.09 | Sienna | it doesn't change? Thats not what I want to hear!? :( |
| 00:23.30 | prpplague | adyer because i hate wasting my time when someone wants to embedded developer and what they think is competative is really about 1/2 what i know is market value |
| 00:24.41 | MonMotha | the environment I work at is at least fun |
| 00:24.42 | adyer | prpplague: and that would change how if they were to say 'excellent' in that salary box? |
| 00:24.50 | RobotGuy | tries to work up the courage to solder to his carrier board |
| 00:24.51 | MonMotha | everybody there is pretty bright |
| 00:25.00 | adyer | prpplague: you're always going to get those people |
| 00:25.02 | prpplague | adyer no, i prefer a pay range |
| 00:25.20 | prpplague | adyer problem is that they waste your time |
| 00:25.28 | MonMotha | I'd rather they leave it blank than say "competitive" |
| 00:25.49 | MonMotha | or hell, just say "applicant dependent" |
| 00:26.00 | prpplague | MonMotha AML was pretty darn good untill we hired this EE |
| 00:26.02 | MonMotha | then they are at least acknowledging that they will pay based on how good you are |
| 00:26.10 | Sienna | wouldnt that be an idea!? you pay based on capabilities! |
| 00:26.17 | prpplague | MonMotha now he has everyone in enginering totally frustrated |
| 00:26.27 | prpplague | Sienna hehe |
| 00:26.52 | Sienna | prpplague, how did the meeting go? Wasn't something going to be done about him |
| 00:27.04 | adyer | Sienna: well at a small place like we have it's pretty much pay for performance |
| 00:27.42 | Sienna | ok, so i just need to work for a small company... I should be able to do that |
| 00:27.53 | prpplague | Sienna no it was really a meeting to get rid of him or anything like that, it was more of a "show the boss that the project is in trouble" meeting |
| 00:28.14 | prpplague | Sienna i think the boss came out of the meeting understanding that the EE is the root of the problem |
| 00:28.19 | Sienna | oh good |
| 00:28.32 | prpplague | Sienna the big question is whether he will actually do something about it |
| 00:29.03 | Sienna | does the boss 'protect the gentleman(agers) club members"? |
| 00:29.26 | prpplague | Sienna not sure i understand your reference |
| 00:29.47 | Sienna | oh, i hear a lot that management is like a club, and they protect their own |
| 00:30.00 | prpplague | Sienna oh, this EE isn't management |
| 00:30.16 | Sienna | good then! |
| 00:30.16 | prpplague | Sienna thats part of the problem right now, we have no engineering manager |
| 00:30.27 | Sienna | yeah, that can be bad |
| 00:31.17 | prpplague | Sienna its a real mess |
| 00:31.39 | prpplague | Sienna enough of a mess that i'm updating my resume and keeping an eye on the job postings |
| 00:31.43 | Sienna | i have actually thought about going into management. I am a jack of all trades, so I can speak the engineers talk. I know from being an engineer what NOT to do. And I really would want to protect any people under me from the BS that is politics. |
| 00:31.59 | prpplague | Sienna yea, thats where i'd like to go myself |
| 00:32.06 | SpeedEvil | applies for the management job, and gets his management motivation whip out. |
| 00:32.16 | Sienna | but I really hate schedules and budgets, prefering to do the job right the first time, rather then fubar it and get support contracts |
| 00:32.45 | Sienna | SpeedEvil, I have a whip in my lab :D |
| 00:32.50 | *** join/#edev chouimat (n=dieu@r2351064.cidc.net) |
| 00:33.52 | prpplague | i really need to do some edits on the wiki |
| 00:33.57 | ali_as_ | cajaka and myself have managed to track down the fpga tone detector, my memory may be slightly faulty on some of the details. http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/users/adrianth/ices96/paper.html for those people interested. |
| 00:35.59 | ali_as_ | Sienna, many thanks for pointing me to the ts-7800, when I move up from this arm7 board, thats what I'll probably buy, it's light years ahead of everything I found searching google. |
| 00:36.32 | Sienna | yeah. As i said, i have only considered it myself... no experience with it |
| 00:36.56 | ali_as_ | I'll do a complete read of all the literature. |
| 00:37.45 | ali_as_ | If a graphics system can be attached I might suggest it to the RISC OS crowd, they are looking for a platform to port to now it's gone open source (ARM specific operating system). |
| 00:38.37 | ali_as_ | I'm off now, it's 1:30am. Nite all. |
| 00:38.45 | Sienna | night |
| 00:39.05 | SpeedEvil | Night. |
| 00:42.57 | *** join/#edev ico2_ (n=ico2@modem-1157.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 00:43.08 | adyer | this looks interesting if it gets off the ground: http://beagleboard.org/brief |
| 00:45.41 | *** part/#edev adyer (n=adyer@adsl-69-223-13-78.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 00:56.25 | *** join/#edev prpplague^2 (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-160-94.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 00:56.31 | Sienna | wb prpplague |
| 01:01.25 | RobotGuy | I need to get a fine blade coping saw or similar. Cutting pin and socket strips is a pain. |
| 01:01.44 | Sienna | i just use a pair of diagonal cutters |
| 01:02.42 | Sienna | 5V at 1.25A, that is more then enough to power electronics and sensors right? |
| 01:04.32 | RobotGuy | Sienna: That's what I was doing too. It seems I destroy the last pin/socket of the strip. I guess I am not doing it right. |
| 01:04.40 | SpeedEvil | Sienna: typically |
| 01:04.49 | SpeedEvil | pin and socket? |
| 01:04.57 | SpeedEvil | they usually have notches between the pins |
| 01:05.03 | SpeedEvil | if they're teh sort I'm thinking of. |
| 01:05.07 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: The pin and socket strips. |
| 01:05.10 | SpeedEvil | A stanley knife works well. |
| 01:05.28 | RobotGuy | Stanley Knife? I do not play with sharp objects. |
| 01:05.45 | Sienna | and yet you want to get a fine blade saw? |
| 01:05.52 | SpeedEvil | A sharp knife can be less dangerous than a saw. |
| 01:06.00 | RobotGuy | Like the sockets one would put on the carrier board next to the Hammer module. |
| 01:06.03 | SpeedEvil | you can do plenty of finger damage with a saw. |
| 01:06.06 | prpplague^2 | Sienna thanks |
| 01:06.28 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: These have no notches |
| 01:06.31 | SpeedEvil | If they are the sort of IC sockets with flat contacts - cut one over |
| 01:06.34 | SpeedEvil | then trim down |
| 01:06.43 | SpeedEvil | so intentionally destroy the last pin |
| 01:06.44 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-160-94.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 01:06.59 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I waste pins that way, especially when I need two strips of 20 out of a 40 pin strip |
| 01:07.09 | prpplague | grumbles |
| 01:07.20 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: have you considered screen? |
| 01:07.20 | Sienna | ok, I am poor again. :( |
| 01:07.30 | RobotGuy | Sienna: What did you order? |
| 01:07.37 | SpeedEvil | offers Sienna money for services. |
| 01:07.42 | SpeedEvil | needs his walls finished. |
| 01:07.52 | RobotGuy | ~whaleslap SpeedEvil |
| 01:07.53 | purl | ACTION beats SpeedEvil upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 01:08.01 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/walls/ |
| 01:08.01 | Sienna | some low profile brackets from LM (and other hardware), a new soldering iron, and some more DE regulators |
| 01:08.09 | SpeedEvil | Do or do not those need finished. |
| 01:08.37 | RobotGuy | Sienna: Which soldering iron? I have a Weller WES51, but wish I had gotten the digital version. |
| 01:08.41 | prpplague | SpeedEvil just too lazy to fix all the firewall issues |
| 01:08.50 | Sienna | i wouldn't trust myself to do handyman work... |
| 01:08.50 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: ah |
| 01:08.56 | prpplague | SpeedEvil planning to get a much better router next pay day |
| 01:09.08 | Sienna | RobotGuy: Hakko 936 (couldn't afford the digital!) |
| 01:09.08 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/walls.html rather |
| 01:09.29 | prpplague | SpeedEvil trying to save up for plane tickets, wife and kids are headed to barbados in the summer to visit family |
| 01:09.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Many units that say "router" on the box are NOT routers at all, but gateways. |
| 01:10.47 | prpplague | SpeedEvil and yes i'm using a winblows laptop, just got this company laptop last week and haven't reloaded it with linux yet |
| 01:10.50 | Sienna | most home users only need a NAT box anyway |
| 01:10.55 | RobotGuy | Many folks also do not understand the difference. |
| 01:11.13 | RobotGuy | Sienna: True, but they should not be labeled as routers. |
| 01:11.31 | Sienna | technically, they ARE routing |
| 01:11.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy hehe yea i know |
| 01:11.48 | RobotGuy | Sienna: I am not sure I agree on that. |
| 01:11.54 | Sienna | oh? |
| 01:12.11 | prpplague | RobotGuy i was just going very cheap when came back from overseas, i just needed to get up and running |
| 01:12.15 | RobotGuy | Routers can have NAT disabled, gateways can't have NAT disabled. |
| 01:12.19 | Sienna | to 'route' means to go from one subnet to another. How are they not doin ghtat? |
| 01:13.05 | Sienna | I know I can disable NAT on my netgear, I am pretty sure you can do it on the linsys versions as well. But why would you want too, unless you had a static IP? |
| 01:13.08 | RobotGuy | Gateways "route" between a private net (192.168.x.0 for instance) and the Internet using a real IP address. |
| 01:13.22 | RobotGuy | Sienna: I have eight static IPs |
| 01:13.29 | Sienna | oh! How did you get those! |
| 01:13.41 | RobotGuy | Sienna: I have a great ISP - SpeakEasy.Net |
| 01:13.45 | Sienna | I have one, but thats on my webserver in texas |
| 01:14.27 | Sienna | (which reminds me, eventually i have to ssh in again and get apache et all back running :|) |
| 01:14.32 | RobotGuy | I have already allocated an IP to W.A.L.T.E.R. and MsBRAT. |
| 01:14.54 | RobotGuy | Why is your web server in TX? |
| 01:15.02 | Sienna | I host with Linode.com |
| 01:15.16 | RobotGuy | Sienna: Ah, colocated? |
| 01:15.22 | Sienna | xen virtual |
| 01:15.40 | Sienna | grr... what the heck is it doing that it is using a constant 5% of the cpu.... |
| 01:15.45 | RobotGuy | I host 10 domains with webfaction.com |
| 01:15.47 | Sienna | fricking servers |
| 01:16.08 | RobotGuy | The other two I host on my server here at home. |
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| 01:18.38 | Sienna | um... shoot! why is my password not working.... brb all, need to boot to linux where my key is stored |
| 01:18.50 | prpplague | ho ho ho |
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| 01:40.18 | RobotGuy | oh oh oh |
| 01:41.19 | RobotGuy | I have sockets soldered next to the socket for the hammer module and the SD/MMC slot also. |
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| 01:42.49 | Sienna | :( I can't get into my server at all... i don't know whats going on |
| 01:43.51 | RobotGuy | That does not sound good |
| 01:44.24 | Sienna | i left a help ticket, not much else i can do |
| 01:44.37 | Sienna | they reported a DDOS against that datacenter earlier today |
| 01:45.40 | RobotGuy | Now I have to find my wirewrap wire. |
| 01:47.10 | Sienna | wirewrap! eww :D |
| 01:48.16 | RobotGuy | I'm not wirewrapping though - using it to make connections to the protorype area of the carrier board. |
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| 01:49.22 | RobotGuy | A friend helped me organize my work area and now I can't find anything. |
| 01:49.48 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 01:49.57 | RobotGuy | Found it! |
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| 02:17.27 | RobotGuy | Sienna: If all goes well, I have just added Bluetooth to my Hammer Carrier. |
| 02:17.34 | SpeedEvil | Yay! |
| 02:17.54 | SpeedEvil | passes RobotGuy some whitening toothpaste. |
| 02:18.13 | RobotGuy | decided to ignore SpeedEvil :P |
| 02:18.18 | Sienna | yay! |
| 02:18.34 | SpeedEvil | What sort of module? There are some pretty small ones. |
| 02:18.40 | SpeedEvil | Do you mean USB? |
| 02:18.48 | RobotGuy | Hopefully, my eyes did not cross while I was connecting everything. |
| 02:19.04 | SpeedEvil | has been wandering around EEEPC modding sites. |
| 02:19.37 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8469 |
| 02:20.09 | RobotGuy | I installed socket headers so the module can be easily replaced or transferred to other boards. |
| 02:20.48 | RobotGuy | I added the bluetooth module to /dev/ttySAC0 (console port). |
| 02:20.57 | SpeedEvil | Ah - right. |
| 02:21.13 | SpeedEvil | I was thinking one of the teeny 1*2cm bluetooth USB thingys. |
| 02:21.26 | SpeedEvil | For about 1/10th the price. |
| 02:22.22 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I wanted a module that could be used on any board and be a serial cable replacement. |
| 02:30.34 | Mirell | Mmm.. |
| 02:30.43 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I want to conserve my USB connections - I could potentially use quite a few. |
| 02:30.49 | RobotGuy | Mirell: Greetings! |
| 02:31.17 | Mirell | 'lo RobotGuy |
| 02:33.25 | SpeedEvil | Oh - I forgot the limited endppoints. |
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| 02:49.10 | RobotGuy | Well, I am not happy with myself now. |
| 02:50.14 | RobotGuy | sighs |
| 02:50.21 | Sienna | what happened? |
| 02:50.37 | RobotGuy | I broke a pin on my hammer module. :(:(:( |
| 02:50.52 | Sienna | can |
| 02:50.57 | Sienna | 't you fix it? |
| 02:51.16 | RobotGuy | I don't think I want to try. I wouldn't know how to go about it. |
| 02:51.28 | SpeedEvil | Was it an important pin? |
| 02:51.34 | RobotGuy | RXD0 |
| 02:51.52 | Sienna | you can always solder another wire to the top of the module, right? |
| 02:52.11 | RobotGuy | Sienna: I don't know. |
| 02:52.44 | Sienna | what part broke? |
| 02:53.09 | RobotGuy | A pin on the module, RXD0 - console port RX |
| 02:53.47 | Sienna | which part of the pin |
| 02:53.55 | RobotGuy | Sienna: The whole pin |
| 02:54.08 | RobotGuy | The part that goes into the socket |
| 02:54.26 | Sienna | the pin was part of a 20 pin line, that are all soldered into the hammer |
| 02:54.35 | RobotGuy | Sienna: Yes |
| 02:54.41 | Sienna | did the plastic break, or just the bottom of the pin? |
| 02:54.55 | RobotGuy | Sienna: The pin. Plastic is OK |
| 02:54.56 | Sienna | (ie., is the top of the pin still there above the hammer board) |
| 02:56.07 | Sienna | then the easiest method will be to simply solder one of your wires to the top of the pin |
| 02:56.52 | RobotGuy | Sienna: It's the bottom part that goes into the socket on the carrier board that broke. |
| 02:56.57 | Sienna | otherwise you could break the plastic between pins 1 and 2, desolder pin 1, get a new pin from Norvak, and solder it in place. Just be careful not to break a trace on the underside of the board when cutting the plastic |
| 02:57.33 | RobotGuy | I'm not able to accomplish that. I don't want to risk making it worse if it can be fixed somehow. |
| 02:57.45 | Sienna | then see the first suggestion |
| 02:58.24 | RobotGuy | How would soldering a wire to the top of the pin fix it? |
| 02:58.41 | Sienna | then you use the wire to jump the signal somewhere its needed |
| 02:59.45 | RobotGuy | Sienna: Hmmmm, I did just solder socket headers to the pin rows right next to the hamer module socket. |
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| 03:11.46 | RobotGuy | Sienna: I accomplished step 1, getting the broken pin out of the hammer module and clearing the hole. I am so surpised that worked for me, and the very first time. |
| 03:12.20 | Sienna | great! |
| 03:12.51 | RobotGuy | I don't know if I have any single row pin headers though. |
| 03:13.12 | RobotGuy | At least not that I can find right now. |
| 03:13.31 | Sienna | then you can wait until you get some (they look machined in the pictures) or just use teh wire |
| 03:14.14 | RobotGuy | Sienna: They are machine pins. |
| 03:14.45 | Sienna | then maybe go to your store tommorow and get some |
| 03:14.50 | RobotGuy | I was hoping to do a lot more with Hammer this weekend. |
| 03:14.59 | RobotGuy | Sienna: They are not opened on weekends anymore. |
| 03:15.22 | Sienna | what where you doing that required two serial ports? |
| 03:16.08 | RobotGuy | Sienna: /dev/ttySAC0 is the main console port - the one I just added bluetooth to. The other one, /dev/ttySAC1 was to go to the SSC-32. |
| 03:16.45 | RobotGuy | I have a bunch of double row pin headers. |
| 03:17.21 | Sienna | unless they are also machined, and match the length on the hammer pins, I wouldnt use them |
| 03:17.42 | RobotGuy | Sienna: I think they are too big to go into the hammer module board anyway. |
| 03:21.26 | RobotGuy | OF course, I can easily switch the console to /dev/ttySAC1 temporarily, but I still lose a serial port for the SSC-32 unless I program up a dsPIC which has a UART and other goodies. I already have most of the code for that, written by another fellow. |
| 03:22.37 | Sienna | or you could take the weekend off, and pick up a book :D |
| 03:35.28 | RobotGuy | Sienna: My brain is not wired that way, unfortunately. When I am in the mood to work on something, I want to work on that only until my brain decides to switch channels on me. |
| 03:35.51 | RobotGuy | I am pretty sure I have OCD to some degree. |
| 03:36.56 | Sienna | ah, my problem is convincing my brain I want to work |
| 03:37.18 | RobotGuy | I found two Linux books I really need to get for myself, that lead in the direction of device drivers. |
| 03:37.52 | RobotGuy | Sienna: I have to take medicine before bed so I can sleep. Otherwise my brain keeps wanting to think about projects and such. |
| 03:38.02 | ohsix | "Linux device drivers" 3rd edition is readily available online |
| 03:38.10 | Sienna | mine does that too... i end up drinking coffee for that :D |
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| 03:39.36 | Sienna | yay!! I can ping my server again |
| 03:39.43 | RobotGuy | ohsix: Downloading now, thanks. |
| 03:40.14 | RobotGuy | Sometimes the medicine still doesn't help me sleep though. |
| 03:43.00 | Sienna | grabs a piece of double chocolate cheescake from the freezer :D |
| 03:44.31 | Sienna | goodnight boys! I am going to go snuggle into the couch and continue reading |
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| 04:15.23 | RobotGuy | I think I killed my Hammer. |
| 04:20.59 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 04:21.18 | RobotGuy | I get no response from it now. |
| 04:23.04 | RobotGuy | I may have just killed serial port 0. |
| 04:25.24 | RobotGuy | G'Night |
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| 08:32.56 | [AD]Turbo | hi all |
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| 19:38.08 | RobotGuy | I am pretty sure I have killed my Hammer module. :( |
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| 19:43.38 | ali_as_ | RobotGuy, killed it how? |
| 19:44.30 | RobotGuy | ali_as_: Apparently when I crossed RXD0 with TXD0 and/or when I tried to jumper RXD0 on the module to the prototype area. |
| 19:45.11 | ali_as_ | Those serial port lines or usb lines? |
| 19:46.56 | ali_as_ | Kinda surprised a data line short would kill a board, they are usually better protected than that. |
| 19:55.31 | RobotGuy | ali_as_: Serial lines, not USB. I'm surprised also. |
| 19:56.05 | RobotGuy | I must have got a solder bridge or something on the module when I was soldering the jumper wire to it. |
| 20:00.33 | ali_as_ | Then I'm doubly surprised, serial lines are usually bulletproof, were they buffered/level shifted or direct from the cpu? (Not familiar with hammer). |
| 20:03.49 | RobotGuy | ali_as_: I am not really sure. |
| 20:04.15 | RobotGuy | I think the lines basically go direct from the processor to the pins. |
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| 20:08.26 | ali_as_ | Shades of strongarms 5v allergies maybe. |
| 20:08.49 | ali_as_ | Tried the usual checks of life? |
| 20:09.18 | ali_as_ | Digital oscilloscope etc? |
| 20:09.59 | ali_as_ | JTAG? |
| 20:24.19 | RobotGuy | I don't have an oscilloscope. I did reflash the Hammer module, but it did not autoboot like it is supposed to. |
| 20:36.21 | ali_as_ | Was it working before and after the flash or could the flashing process have failed? |
| 20:41.37 | RobotGuy | ali_as_: It was working when I removed it from the socket so I could do my soldering to the prototype area. |
| 20:42.19 | RobotGuy | You can get details on the Hammer at www.tincantools.com |
| 20:42.48 | ali_as_ | I know, but without an oscilloscope I'm not sure what to suggest. |
| 20:43.26 | ali_as_ | Mine is neerly as old as I am, and has got me out of soo many scrapes. |
| 20:43.45 | ali_as_ | No way you coud simply have put the hammer back in the wrong way round? |
| 20:44.56 | RobotGuy | ali_as_: There is no way I could have put the Hammer in wrong. |
| 20:45.11 | ali_as_ | It was a long shot. |
| 20:45.31 | RobotGuy | I know. It never hurts to check the obvious - which can easily be mised. |
| 20:46.18 | RobotGuy | I won't be able to replace it for at least a month or two. :( |
| 20:46.18 | ali_as_ | If you can jtag in situ then many things are possible, but I have no idea how to work software for arm. |
| 20:46.47 | ali_as_ | Usually when I'm in your position I've shorted something during the soldering. |
| 20:47.02 | ohsix | why not run the boundary scan test files or whatever w/the jtag and see if all the peripherals still function |
| 20:47.10 | ali_as_ | Or wrecked a plated through hole neerby with heatdamage. |
| 20:47.19 | RobotGuy | ali_as_: That may have happened when I was soldering the jumper wire to the Hammer module to replace the broken pin. |
| 20:47.45 | ali_as_ | I mean perminantly shorted and it works when desoldered. |
| 20:48.20 | RobotGuy | ohsix: I don't know how to do that. I haven't used openocd for much other than flashing Hammer or my ARM7 boards. |
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