| 00:03.40 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-80-235.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 00:03.52 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 00:06.05 | landley | ds2: did you ever take a look at fiwix.org? |
| 00:06.13 | landley | It seemed to be what you were looking for yesterday. |
| 00:06.16 | CosmicPenguin | I only do software, and I've totally made my share of hardware go bang |
| 00:06.23 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 00:06.36 | landley | A) I've made plenty of software go bang. |
| 00:06.43 | landley | B) I've made plenty of hardware go bang. |
| 00:06.49 | landley | I'm much more equipped to deal with A. |
| 00:07.09 | landley | And yes, sometimes you can damage hardware in software. |
| 00:07.15 | landley | Commodore PET could do it with a single basic statement. |
| 00:07.23 | landley | Old VGA cards/monitors required slightly more work. |
| 00:07.54 | landley | never personnally dealt with butterfly seeks or punched a lace card. |
| 00:08.11 | landley | But I did fry an AMD cpu that had a loose fan. |
| 00:08.33 | landley | (Worked _fine_ until I did something CPU intensive and the processor overheated and siezed up.) |
| 00:15.25 | *** join/#edev ce_geek (n=ce_geek@roger-blanchette-4.umelst.maine.edu) |
| 00:16.25 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 00:16.33 | prpplague | landley are we having fun yet |
| 00:17.49 | RobotGuy | I just got 5 servos and a gripper for W.A.L.T.E.R. |
| 00:18.19 | prpplague | RobotGuy i still think you need a female name |
| 00:18.47 | RobotGuy | prpplague: My BRAT is female. That's enough. :P |
| 00:19.13 | RobotGuy | You haven't seen the new pictures of W.A.L.T.E.R. yet. |
| 00:19.29 | prpplague | no been very busy |
| 00:19.38 | prpplague | doing battles with windmills again |
| 00:20.02 | RobotGuy | That's OK because I haven't posted them on my website yet. ;) |
| 00:20.05 | landley | prpplague: well I'm usually having fun. |
| 00:20.13 | landley | Just depends on your definition of fun. |
| 00:20.30 | RobotGuy | Having things work the way they are supposed to work is fun. |
| 00:21.00 | Dr{Who} | interesting.. i expected microperl to have more "stuff" looks like it has perl but 0 modules? |
| 00:21.59 | RobotGuy | Dr{Who}: 5 servos for a 3DOF arm and 2DOF gripper. :) |
| 00:22.06 | ce_geek | prpplague: Can you think of any single disadvantage to JFFS2 over initrd, aside from some funky initial setup? |
| 00:22.40 | Dr{Who} | cool.. very cool. |
| 00:22.50 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: I am liking JFFS2 now. :) |
| 00:22.52 | Dr{Who} | you keeping a blog of pics ? |
| 00:22.58 | Sienna | hello prpplague, RobotGuy |
| 00:23.00 | ce_geek | RobotGuy: I gathered that :) |
| 00:23.04 | prpplague | Sienna greetings |
| 00:23.13 | prpplague | Sienna whats cookin ? |
| 00:23.18 | ce_geek | RobotGuy: Definitely seems to be the way to go. |
| 00:23.27 | Sienna | I was reading up on XBee modules and stuff |
| 00:23.33 | Sienna | you? |
| 00:23.53 | RobotGuy | Dr{Who}: Of course I do. :) Here: http://forums.trossenrobotics.com/blog.php?u=1657 |
| 00:23.54 | prpplague | Sienna brain cells, another fun day killing windmills, hehe |
| 00:24.08 | Sienna | what is this killing windmill reference? |
| 00:24.17 | RobotGuy | Sienna: W.A.L.T.E.R. will have WiFi, Bluetooth, and ZigBee. :) |
| 00:24.43 | RobotGuy | Hi Sienna |
| 00:25.36 | Sienna | RobotGuy, WALTER will have a cosite interference problem :| |
| 00:25.51 | prpplague | Sienna hehe personal joke about don quixote |
| 00:26.43 | ce_geek | prpplague: No thoughts about JFFS2 disadvantages other than initial setup? |
| 00:27.52 | prpplague | ce_geek the only thing we(aml) prefer to use initrd for is to have a rootfs that gets reset on reboot |
| 00:28.22 | prpplague | ce_geek no matter how bad a custom screws up, he can always power off and back on |
| 00:28.36 | ce_geek | prpplague: That is an excellent point. Boot to a known state. |
| 00:29.13 | ce_geek | That's actually a big deal. |
| 00:29.32 | prpplague | careful consideration of the target audience is important |
| 00:29.36 | RobotGuy | Sienna: I do not know. I will try and separate the antennas enough so there will not be a problem. |
| 00:29.49 | Sienna | yes, cause we are idiots :D Safeguards are a good thing (tm) |
| 00:30.16 | RobotGuy | I have my Hammer booting from Flash now, and have Python and SQLite both in the flash. :) |
| 00:30.21 | ce_geek | I was always taught that users are stupid and they must be protected from themselves. |
| 00:30.24 | Sienna | RobotGuy, why so many though? Why not choose one and make it a nice 50mW with a +5db antenna? |
| 00:30.32 | prpplague | ~lart RobotGuy |
| 00:30.32 | purl | hauls RobotGuy up by the scruff of the neck and spanks him until he waddles |
| 00:30.35 | ce_geek | Now to figure out how to say that professionally in my document...... :-P |
| 00:30.44 | prpplague | RobotGuy it always booted from flash, hehe |
| 00:30.48 | Sienna | ce_geek: PEBKAC |
| 00:30.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy but now it has a flash based root filesystem |
| 00:30.57 | ce_geek | Sienna: Haha, indeed. |
| 00:31.33 | RobotGuy | Sienna: Bluetooth will be attached to the console port in place of the standard serial cable for commands and debugging. WiFi will be for big data transmission and such. ZigBee will be for inter-robot communications as in a swarm. :) |
| 00:32.18 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes, indeed. In fact, I don't even need any other means of storage right now for Hammer. I still have 4.5 MB free on the Flash. |
| 00:32.24 | Sienna | but zigbee can be used as a serial cable for all that too |
| 00:32.47 | prpplague | bobf ping |
| 00:32.50 | Sienna | no, the more i read about zigbee, the more i like. |
| 00:32.57 | Sienna | mesh networks for the win! :P |
| 00:33.04 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yeah yeah, durn terminology. :P It always booted from flash but now everything is on flash, including the root filesystem. |
| 00:33.15 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 00:33.52 | Sienna | prpplague, why isn't rusty ever in chat :\ |
| 00:33.57 | RobotGuy | Hey, is purl a gurl? |
| 00:34.17 | RobotGuy | Sienna: His can is rusty. :) |
| 00:34.18 | prpplague | rusty isn't exactly irc type |
| 00:34.35 | prpplague | Sienna he's old school EE type |
| 00:34.39 | Sienna | !trout RobotGuy |
| 00:34.42 | Sienna | .... |
| 00:34.53 | RobotGuy | Hee hee |
| 00:34.55 | Sienna | its girl... not gurl, not grrl, girl! :D |
| 00:35.04 | RobotGuy | I just woke up from a nap. |
| 00:35.37 | Sienna | RobotGuy, question for you: What would you figure a fair price for the basic RDP would be? |
| 00:37.07 | RobotGuy | Sienna: Well, with Hammer, it would have to be around $189.00 - $200.00 or so. I would not expect the RDP by itself to be more than $35.00 - $40.00, if we are lucky. |
| 00:37.50 | Sienna | anyone else here have an opinion on the RDP? |
| 00:38.11 | prpplague | rdp will probably be in the $39.00 range and bundled with the hammer for $189 |
| 00:38.14 | RobotGuy | Well, $35.00 - $50.00 would be reasonable, depending on the features the RDP actually ends up having. |
| 00:38.34 | RobotGuy | Hee hee, my Kung-Fu is good! |
| 00:38.51 | prpplague | landley i'm totally worn out |
| 00:39.16 | prpplague | landley i've beent trying to bringup this backlight circuit since friday of last week |
| 00:39.34 | prpplague | landley 3 more bugs today |
| 00:39.37 | prpplague | landley all hardware |
| 00:39.48 | RobotGuy | Sienna, I added a top mounted camera pan/tilt to W.A.L.T.E.R. today for camera 2. |
| 00:41.51 | Sienna | prpplague, no, landley is all software, you know that! (its odd for me to read everyone's name constantly) |
| 00:42.22 | RobotGuy | Are you an odd girl, Sienna? ;) <ducks and runs> |
| 00:42.54 | Sienna | am i odd? I don't think so... I just possess my girlish ability to track multiple conversations |
| 00:43.11 | prpplague | Sienna ?? i am sorry i did not understand you statement |
| 00:43.42 | prpplague | Sienna long day |
| 00:43.44 | Sienna | yeah, it was a bad joke, sorry :( |
| 00:44.18 | prpplague | Sienna hehe, np, i get terribly dense in the evening because my mind is still focused on the "projects" at work |
| 00:44.28 | prpplague | points to RobotGuy |
| 00:44.33 | prpplague | RobotGuy can atest to that |
| 00:44.59 | landley | Sienna: is it ok to say "girl" and not "woman"? |
| 00:45.16 | landley | Saying "boy" vs "man" seems to make a difference... |
| 00:45.17 | RobotGuy | doesn't attest to, admit to, or volunteer for anything. :P |
| 00:45.30 | landley | What's a zigbee? |
| 00:45.34 | prpplague | landley i think she said she prefers "Network Goddess" |
| 00:45.44 | landley | (Backscroll, the breakfast of champions...) |
| 00:45.45 | RobotGuy | landley: www.maxstream.com (now Digi) |
| 00:45.53 | Sienna | boy versus man makes a difference? huh. Who knew... i call almost all of you boys :D |
| 00:45.59 | landley | prpplague: paper trail. I'm telling you... |
| 00:46.12 | Sienna | RobotGuy, no pleading the fifth here! |
| 00:46.16 | landley | Start a "things the EE screwed up that cost me time this week" report. Give it to the boss on mondays. |
| 00:46.35 | landley | Sienna: I'll break anything, it's just that I can _fix_ software. |
| 00:46.46 | Sienna | didn't dilbert call that "MFU1" and "MFU2"? |
| 00:46.47 | RobotGuy | Well, if Beth of Lynxmotion can be Webmistress, Sienna must be RobotMistress (doesn't really sound right) or something like that. |
| 00:46.55 | prpplague | landley hehe, yea well i'm doing the paper trail, but now i _go_ get the boss every time, which means i got him like 10 times today |
| 00:47.07 | landley | Sienna: I'm fine with "boy"... |
| 00:47.09 | RobotGuy | is the King of Breakage |
| 00:47.19 | prpplague | landley at 5:30 today when i went to give him a summary for the day he was like "oh lord what now?" |
| 00:47.25 | Sienna | and landley, Zigbee is just a serial mesh network |
| 00:47.26 | landley | maxstream timed out. |
| 00:47.34 | Sienna | try .net, that works |
| 00:47.42 | RobotGuy | Oops. |
| 00:47.43 | landley | prpplague: create reports. |
| 00:47.50 | Dr{Who} | http://www.digi.com/products/wireless/point-multipoint/xbee-pro-series1-module.jsp |
| 00:47.51 | landley | Tabulate up all the issues and how long each one took to fix. |
| 00:47.54 | prpplague | landley yea eod reports |
| 00:48.01 | landley | Give cumulative totals by week, and then at the end of each month. |
| 00:48.03 | prpplague | landley started doing that about 2 weeks ago |
| 00:48.34 | Sienna | prpplague, don't you have a convienent tape vault or elevator to trap him in? |
| 00:48.36 | landley | Be sure to list each item and how long it took to resolve. |
| 00:48.52 | RobotGuy | Sienna: I bought a nice antenna for W.A.L.T.E.R.'s Bluetooth (the $9.95 one from Spark Fun). |
| 00:48.54 | landley | Sienna: define "works". |
| 00:49.06 | landley | This obviously must be some strange usage of the word "works" that I had not previously been aware of. |
| 00:49.09 | RobotGuy | never works, just plays and tinkers |
| 00:49.13 | landley | (Arthur, you're getting hysterical, shut up!) |
| 00:49.19 | landley | Resistance, is useless! |
| 00:49.21 | prpplague | Sienna sorry no |
| 00:49.22 | landley | (If less than 1 ohm.) |
| 00:49.36 | Sienna | landley: s/www.maxstream.com/www.maxstream.net |
| 00:49.41 | RobotGuy | You will be assimilated! |
| 00:50.08 | Sienna | not .NET, which is a castoff from Chtuthulu himself |
| 00:50.16 | landley | Anything can be turned into either a monty python or hitchhiker's guide reference with a bit of effort. |
| 00:50.27 | landley | It's too much to hope zigbee is a software controlled radio? |
| 00:50.28 | prpplague | landley my favorite thing today was he had the nBacklight enable sharing a pullup with the nBatt_fault signal |
| 00:50.40 | landley | prpplague: I'm happy for you. |
| 00:50.43 | landley | I have no IDEA what that means. |
| 00:50.48 | RobotGuy | landley: Hardware and Software |
| 00:50.57 | Sienna | i think it means that the battery fault signal got tripped alot |
| 00:51.09 | prpplague | landley which means any time i turned the backlight off, it caused the processor to thing the battery had failed and cause the system to shut down |
| 00:51.13 | landley | Pullup is a resistor, I know that much. |
| 00:51.18 | landley | But what it's for is an open question. |
| 00:51.26 | landley | Means the electricity is getting exercise, I think. |
| 00:51.37 | landley | Cute. |
| 00:51.55 | RobotGuy | Is that EE an Extreme Electrophobe? |
| 00:51.59 | landley | I take it this is the kind of thing you'd expect a freshman EE student to have right by the final exam? |
| 00:52.01 | Sienna | landley, what do you mean 'software controlled'? |
| 00:52.08 | landley | It's short for EEdiot as far as I can tell... |
| 00:52.13 | prpplague | jokes with ce_geek |
| 00:52.30 | landley | Sienna: http://www.gnu.org/software/gnuradio/ |
| 00:52.32 | prpplague | landley yea a freshman EE like ce_geek |
| 00:52.56 | landley | Scroll down past the release announcements. |
| 00:53.00 | MonMotha | prpplague: see, now that's not something I can say I've don |
| 00:53.01 | MonMotha | e |
| 00:53.03 | landley | The page was designed by the FSF, and is therefore stupid. |
| 00:53.09 | landley | is opinionated. |
| 00:53.11 | prpplague | Sienna i've used he hammer to decode rtty from on old russia satelite |
| 00:53.27 | MonMotha | we've had some issues with things not having dedicated resets (just sharing the system reset net), but that was just because I didn't realize the hardware was buggy enough to require one |
| 00:53.27 | prpplague | MonMotha which item is that? |
| 00:53.35 | prpplague | MonMotha the nbatt_fault? |
| 00:53.38 | Sienna | landley, no, Zigbee is NOT a software defined radio (thats the correct term IIRC) |
| 00:53.39 | MonMotha | sharing signals in a stupid way |
| 00:53.41 | MonMotha | like that, yes |
| 00:53.46 | landley | Ah. |
| 00:53.47 | prpplague | MonMotha ahh |
| 00:53.48 | ds2 | landley: yes, I like it |
| 00:53.49 | landley | Pity, but oh well. |
| 00:54.14 | MonMotha | prpplague: sorry I didn't catch you this morning |
| 00:54.21 | MonMotha | I did'nt make it in to work until noon |
| 00:54.22 | prpplague | landley zigbee isn't really an end user type radio, its more in the range of industrial applications |
| 00:54.30 | MonMotha | couldn't sleep last night, so I finally just had to take the sleep when I got it |
| 00:54.32 | landley | (There appear to be regulatory issues in producing a darn "this knob controls frequency, now you send/receive a digitized FM signal in .wav format" device... |
| 00:54.34 | Sienna | prpplague, you just have to much time on your hands.... or you work for some TLA :D |
| 00:54.45 | prpplague | MonMotha np it was a beoych of a day |
| 00:54.46 | landley | ds2: oh good. |
| 00:55.01 | MonMotha | landley: yes, which is when I whip out the little piece of paper that says I'm allowed such devices and tell them to try again :) |
| 00:55.08 | landley | He works for a Three Letter Acronym? |
| 00:55.09 | RobotGuy | Uh oh, ds2 is awake now.. :) |
| 00:55.18 | MonMotha | very handy for getting straight answers out of wifi chip makers as to why they won't provide docs |
| 00:55.18 | Sienna | landley, the Army is trying to get those types of radios... look into JTRS |
| 00:55.48 | Sienna | yes, working for a TLA... for example, NSA, CIA, FBI, DHS, TSA, etc |
| 00:56.01 | RobotGuy | I wish I could find my shaft encoders for W.A.L.T.E.R.'s motors. |
| 00:56.06 | landley | Sienna: my grandfather worked for the NSA for decades. |
| 00:56.17 | RobotGuy | Top Level Android |
| 00:56.25 | landley | I'm under the vague impression most of their intelligence functions were redeployed after they stopped being "no such agency" and these days they do crypto research and the like. |
| 00:56.29 | prpplague | Sienna hehe, no TLA , but how does it equate to too much time on my hands? |
| 00:56.35 | landley | But it's very vague because I stay the HECK AWAY from that kind of work. |
| 00:56.52 | Sienna | well, i suppose no more so then my robots prpplague, just a different obsession :P |
| 00:57.03 | landley | (My father works for a defense contractor designing systems that can target and shoot down things past the curvature of the earth.) |
| 00:57.08 | prpplague | Sienna ahh |
| 00:57.18 | prpplague | Sienna yea i pretty much live for embedded dev |
| 00:57.33 | landley | Me, I do not have a security clearance, don't want one, can't make me. |
| 00:57.34 | Sienna | i live to spend money... .yes, that is easy :D |
| 00:57.35 | prpplague | Sienna been doing it professionally for about 15 years |
| 00:57.37 | ds2 | robots need to be able to do work to be interesting...i.e the roomba |
| 00:57.39 | landley | Devoutly civilian. |
| 00:57.42 | RobotGuy | Robots are embedded development. :) |
| 00:57.59 | MonMotha | I swear, if I could pay somebody my hourly rate in order to sleep for me (and have it actually, you know, work, rather than them just getting paid to sleep), I'd do it |
| 00:58.06 | RobotGuy | wants to build the robot with the friggin' laser beam on its head. |
| 00:58.07 | landley | Call me when somebody tries to physically invade actual US territory. |
| 00:58.11 | landley | And no, guam doesn't count. |
| 00:58.27 | ds2 | landley: mexico/us border |
| 00:58.29 | ds2 | :) |
| 00:58.33 | prpplague | RobotGuy indeed however robotics does include a large amount if mechanical engineering |
| 00:58.41 | landley | ds2: that's not an invasion, that's economic displacement. |
| 00:58.47 | Sienna | if it gets any crazier here in the US, i might cross that border |
| 00:58.48 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes, so I have discovered. |
| 00:58.50 | landley | Cuba isn't invading us, haiti isn't invading us, mexico isn't invading us. |
| 00:58.55 | *** join/#edev Appleman1234 (n=Appleman@131.181.47.32) |
| 00:59.02 | landley | The tired, poor, and huddled masses yearning to breathe free are taking the statue of liberty at her word. |
| 00:59.04 | Sienna | hello Appleman1234 |
| 00:59.08 | prpplague | ds2 no need, the can walk across and take money back to mexico without the threat of war |
| 00:59.25 | RobotGuy | I am not terribly fond of tinkering with mechanical stuff. |
| 00:59.30 | landley | Despite the tired, poor, huddled masses who got here 100 years ago having had prosperous decendants who want to change the policy now that they're in. |
| 00:59.31 | ds2 | landley: there is a group that is bent on otherwise... La something. their objective is to reclaim the old mexico |
| 00:59.42 | landley | ds2: I live in Texas. |
| 00:59.46 | Sienna | actually, the tinkering with mechanics for robots is a dying art, much to my dismay |
| 00:59.50 | landley | "And we're proud to be american, until we can seceede." |
| 01:00.02 | prpplague | ds2 yea did you see that absolute vodka ad? |
| 01:00.04 | landley | Line from the Austin Lounge Lizards' "Stupid Texas Song". |
| 01:00.06 | ds2 | texas was a seperate nation at one point |
| 01:00.10 | ds2 | prpplague: no |
| 01:00.11 | landley | Which I think should be the state's anthem, personally... |
| 01:00.14 | RobotGuy | Sienna: Why? There will always be mechanical things to do with robots. |
| 01:00.37 | landley | Sienna: dinking around with the low levels of any technology becomes a dying art as the technology progresses. |
| 01:00.44 | Sienna | but people like Jim are lowering that threshold, and kits like bioliod go even turnkey |
| 01:00.50 | prpplague | http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laplaza/2008/04/mexico-reconque.html |
| 01:01.03 | landley | Circa 1975 the only miccrocomputer users were the ones who assembled their Altair with a soldering iron. It was required. |
| 01:01.23 | RobotGuy | Sometimes I think Lynxmotion lowers the threshold a little bit too much. |
| 01:01.25 | landley | Now you buy a prepackaged box containing literally trillions of transistors, and if it breaks you throw it out and get a new one. |
| 01:01.26 | ds2 | heh |
| 01:01.30 | Sienna | a soldering iron? I thought you started with wire wrap! |
| 01:01.48 | landley | Think of all the people who tinkered with cars in the "hot rod" era of the 50's. |
| 01:01.51 | MonMotha | I've been meaning to wire wrap myself a computer |
| 01:01.56 | MonMotha | it's just too expensive, though |
| 01:02.07 | landley | Back in the Model T days, _everybody_ had to. Now with computer controlled fuel injection feeding into a catalytic converter, you _can't_. |
| 01:02.17 | RobotGuy | forgot to order those little bags of 3mm hardware for attaching servos to brackets. :( |
| 01:02.25 | landley | Not without six figures worth of special equipment from the device's manufacturer. |
| 01:02.44 | Sienna | RobotGuy, didn't you get some with the multi purpose brackets |
| 01:03.03 | RobotGuy | Sienna: I didn't order any this time. I have plenty of ASB-04's. |
| 01:03.06 | Sienna | landley, i know... for cars thats what i prefer |
| 01:03.27 | Sienna | if you have plenty of them, where is there hardware? |
| 01:03.28 | landley | prpplague: and South Carolina still wants to seceede from the union. Your point? |
| 01:03.42 | RobotGuy | I'll just use snap rivets for now. |
| 01:04.02 | RobotGuy | landley: We should let South Carolina go. |
| 01:04.02 | Sienna | oh, you got them with those? Sorry |
| 01:04.07 | prpplague | landley i consider more of a corporate responsibility issue |
| 01:04.32 | RobotGuy | Sienna: I got my ASB-04's before the switch to 3mm hardware. |
| 01:04.37 | landley | MonMotha: somebody did. |
| 01:04.38 | landley | http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/04/192214 |
| 01:04.46 | MonMotha | landley: oh I don't doubt |
| 01:04.48 | MonMotha | it's actually not that hard |
| 01:05.00 | MonMotha | and I was talking using LSI chips |
| 01:05.07 | MonMotha | not making my own CPU. I have FPGAs for that |
| 01:05.17 | landley | Nope, this guy made his own microprocessor and wrote his own OS and everything. |
| 01:05.22 | landley | (Then later ported minix to the thing.) |
| 01:05.35 | MonMotha | I'm aware of the project |
| 01:05.39 | prpplague | i have several z80 systems i did, but i made myself a promise about 7 years ago not to do any personal projects that didn't advance my skills in a way that could be professionally used |
| 01:05.41 | MonMotha | homebrewcpu, right? |
| 01:05.47 | MonMotha | yeah |
| 01:05.51 | landley | I'm still more impressed by http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/01/29/2115210 |
| 01:06.30 | landley | prpplague: I've been contacted by three recruiters in the past 2 days. |
| 01:06.42 | prpplague | landley oh? nice |
| 01:06.42 | landley | I'm not worried about fluffing up my skill set for employability reasons at present. |
| 01:06.51 | Sienna | i hooked 5V to a uC and didn't fry it! Can i get in the geek club?! |
| 01:07.00 | landley | Not really. One was microsoft, one wanted me to move to georgia, and the third might get back to me between now and June. |
| 01:07.36 | prpplague | landley if things don't get better by fall, i'm gonna have to start looking |
| 01:07.46 | landley | Sienna: I think you managed that by knowing this channel _exists_. |
| 01:08.00 | landley | prpplague: it's easy to find a job if you're willing to move. |
| 01:08.15 | landley | I've never found the internet to be very helpful at finding _local_ stuff. |
| 01:08.19 | MonMotha | not if you want to stay in the midwest and do this kind of stuff... |
| 01:08.27 | prpplague | landley yea thats the key |
| 01:08.32 | landley | Even in Austin. |
| 01:08.59 | landley | In theory it's a hotbed of high tech, in practice I didn't even know the Linux FOundation's desktop thingy was this week until earlier _today_. |
| 01:09.04 | landley | (And me stuck in Houston all week. :P) |
| 01:09.16 | landley | https://www.linux-foundation.org/events/collaboration |
| 01:09.21 | landley | If we had a LUG that was worth anything... |
| 01:09.23 | landley | Sigh. |
| 01:09.35 | prpplague | landley with my fun(not) stay overseas, i'm not in the mood to move |
| 01:11.20 | landley | prpplague: I feel the same way after a year and change in pittsburgh. |
| 01:12.38 | Sienna | takes pity on her flyswatter cable that is now bent and folded beyond recognition |
| 01:12.40 | prpplague | lordy lordy |
| 01:12.48 | prpplague | Sienna ?? |
| 01:12.55 | prpplague | Sienna you ordered on? |
| 01:12.58 | prpplague | one? |
| 01:13.08 | ds2 | Xilinx sells a kit that you can create a processor and run Linux on it |
| 01:13.22 | Sienna | about time i have a hammer right? |
| 01:13.29 | Sienna | it just came in today |
| 01:13.41 | prpplague | Sienna ahh |
| 01:13.55 | prpplague | Sienna you use the only ordering? |
| 01:14.01 | prpplague | s/only/online |
| 01:14.12 | Sienna | through rusty |
| 01:14.17 | RobotGuy | Sienna: You are a geek and I suspect have always been one. :) |
| 01:15.10 | RobotGuy | The Portland Metro area has Linux all around, pretty much everywhere you look these days. |
| 01:15.44 | RobotGuy | ds2: I would love to have the Xilinx 3E/Microblaze kit. |
| 01:15.47 | ds2 | RobotGuy: now do the same for seattle ;) |
| 01:16.07 | RobotGuy | ds2: It's too cold up there for warm blooded Linux geeks. :) |
| 01:16.22 | ds2 | RobotGuy: so would I... but I am not allowed to run a deficit like the feds ;) |
| 01:16.31 | RobotGuy | We have the Linux Plumber's Conference this year. |
| 01:16.49 | Sienna | what the heck does that mean |
| 01:16.57 | RobotGuy | ds2: I would have to save for at least 3 months to get that kit. |
| 01:17.10 | Sienna | we will fix your toilets by flushing the bits down to dev/null? |
| 01:17.24 | RobotGuy | Sienna: www.linuxplumbersconference.org (I think I spelled it right) |
| 01:17.25 | ds2 | RobotGuy: eh? you must make a lot more money then I do... they were telling me one of those run $10K+ |
| 01:17.39 | landley | Sienna: there's a one line geek test. What is your reaction to: |
| 01:17.44 | RobotGuy | ds2: No, the kit I am talking about is $595.00 |
| 01:17.54 | landley | The other day I saw a volkswagen beetle with a license plate that said "feature". |
| 01:17.55 | MonMotha | You can get a S3E board for $100 i fyou awnt to |
| 01:18.03 | RobotGuy | ds2: Sometimes can be had for $495.00 |
| 01:18.03 | ds2 | RobotGuy: don't you still need the tool to compile things into the FPGA? |
| 01:18.06 | MonMotha | $120 (I think it was) buys you a pretty big one |
| 01:18.11 | MonMotha | and the dev tools are free |
| 01:18.16 | ds2 | the hardware board is cheap |
| 01:18.17 | MonMotha | though not if you want Microblaze |
| 01:18.25 | RobotGuy | ds2: Everything is in the kit. FREE Xilinx web edition tools. They work great! |
| 01:18.28 | MonMotha | but then, go to opencores and grab an ARM core or something like that |
| 01:18.31 | ds2 | MonMotha: not for the microblaze/picoblaze tools |
| 01:18.32 | Sienna | landley, it took me a second, but :P |
| 01:18.48 | RobotGuy | Open Cores FTW! |
| 01:18.50 | ds2 | RobotGuy: that's just FPGA |
| 01:18.55 | MonMotha | http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?Prod=NEXYS2&Nav1=Products&Nav2=Programmable |
| 01:19.06 | MonMotha | ds2: no, you don't get microblaze with th efree stuff |
| 01:19.06 | landley | still things Penguicon is more interesting. |
| 01:19.10 | MonMotha | but I never found it necessary |
| 01:19.11 | ds2 | I was somewhat impressed by their trade show demo on the picoblaze |
| 01:19.14 | prpplague | Sienna booted you hammer yet then? |
| 01:19.17 | RobotGuy | ds2: I know. That's all I need. I almost have everything else I want/need. |
| 01:19.27 | MonMotha | I just wish there was a way to instantiate the PowerPC cores on my Virtex 2 Pro without EDK |
| 01:19.29 | RobotGuy | Ok, OK, so I will never have everything I want to tinker with. |
| 01:19.56 | RobotGuy | Sienna has boots? |
| 01:20.00 | ds2 | point and click design of a processor is neat |
| 01:20.05 | Sienna | prpplague, nope, not yet... I was waiting till my iron came in, so I can power it with a Dimemnsion Engineering switching power supply (the same one I would use in a bot) |
| 01:20.28 | MonMotha | ds2: no argument there. It works well, but there are ways to do it for $100 if you just want to tinker |
| 01:20.39 | prpplague | Sienna is that anyting like a Zero Point Module power supply? |
| 01:20.46 | MonMotha | for commerical usage (where your time is worth serious $$$), it's likely worth buying the high end software |
| 01:20.48 | Sienna | ? |
| 01:21.00 | prpplague | Sienna sci-fi joke |
| 01:21.09 | Sienna | ah |
| 01:21.09 | RobotGuy | Sienna: Stargate Atlantis, ZPM |
| 01:21.13 | prpplague | Sienna ZPM from star-gate |
| 01:21.20 | Sienna | oh yea..... its been a while |
| 01:21.24 | ds2 | MonMotha: yep. but for that, I much rather play with the Actel stuff with the cortex IP |
| 01:22.12 | ds2 | prpplague: are you implying Sienna is working on replicators? ;) |
| 01:22.26 | Sienna | drops a piano on ds2! |
| 01:22.34 | Sienna | you do not talk about the master plan! |
| 01:22.51 | ds2 | :) |
| 01:22.54 | prpplague | ds2 or just taking advantage of ancient tech |
| 01:22.59 | RobotGuy | hides his MCP |
| 01:23.06 | Sienna | mcp? |
| 01:23.09 | ds2 | fits in right between all 4 of the piano legs |
| 01:23.22 | RobotGuy | Master Control Processor, Master Computing Plan, etc. :) |
| 01:23.36 | Sienna | feeds RobotGuy to Hal9000 |
| 01:23.42 | RobotGuy | Even Master Control Program |
| 01:23.47 | RobotGuy | Ha ha |
| 01:23.55 | RobotGuy | Hal would spit me out |
| 01:24.29 | landley | Sienna: The MCP is from Tron. |
| 01:24.42 | Sienna | hmm... i just noticed... the DB9 on the flyswatter, is the wrong gender... what is it for? |
| 01:24.43 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Don't laugh! One guy has a robot that can do CAD. |
| 01:24.52 | Sienna | tron! Oh, i remember that now! |
| 01:24.52 | landley | A movie 20 years ahead of its time, which alas means anybody under the age of 30 has an even chance of not having heard of it. :( |
| 01:25.05 | prpplague | Sienna why is it the wrong gender? |
| 01:25.05 | RobotGuy | Give it some basic tools and it could rebuild itself or others. |
| 01:25.09 | Sienna | hey, i am not even 26 yet, and i know tron |
| 01:25.29 | Sienna | prpplague, the DP9? what was it supposed to be fore |
| 01:25.37 | RobotGuy | Tron is so cool, a true classic |
| 01:25.39 | ds2 | intelivision tron game... |
| 01:25.53 | RobotGuy | My cat is trying to get into robotics now. |
| 01:26.09 | prpplague | Sienna when the flyswatter is plugged into your host pc, the db9 serves as a serial port |
| 01:26.10 | ds2 | Sienna: I think that is a 'free' serial port for whatever you want |
| 01:26.17 | Sienna | oh. |
| 01:26.22 | prpplague | Sienna no different that a standard usb->rs-232 adapter |
| 01:26.35 | Sienna | ok, then its like the computer side of the cable, got it |
| 01:26.57 | landley | The downside of an event with Vernor Vinge, Eric Raymond, Peter Salus, Elizabeth Bear, Randal Munroe, Jennie Breeden, Tamora Pierce, Rob Balder, and a couple dozen other cool people is they're all scheduled opposite each other on the panels! |
| 01:26.57 | ce_geek | Okay I can hardcode IP information in inittab, but how do I make users and groups persistent? Seems like I'd have to go through some process to create an /etc/passwd entry and stuff, in addition to the filesystem changes. |
| 01:27.00 | landley | Sigh. |
| 01:27.13 | landley | is reading the penguicon proto-schedule and trying to figure out what I want to go to. |
| 01:27.25 | ds2 | prpplague: does that serial port have a RS-232 level shifter on it? |
| 01:27.32 | prpplague | Sienna the flyswatter is mean to be plugged in your host pc |
| 01:27.33 | ce_geek | For example I can see how to hardcode the IP address for the hammer in inittab before initrd is created, but I have to have a password set for the root user to make it possible to SSH to this thing after a reboot. |
| 01:27.36 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: Edit the passwd and group file |
| 01:27.38 | prpplague | ds2 yea, its standard |
| 01:28.11 | ds2 | prpplague: is it easy to disable the level shifter? |
| 01:28.51 | prpplague | ds2 not on the current rev of the board, i've already made the changes for the next rev to have a jump to turn the level shifter off, and add headers for ttl level connections |
| 01:29.06 | ds2 | when tax time is over, I will probally be getting a fly swatter... and if it can let me do a quick interface to 3.3V or 5V UART outputs, it would be great |
| 01:29.15 | Sienna | TTL !imply 5V, right? |
| 01:29.26 | ds2 | prpplague: when is the next rev slated to be available? |
| 01:29.41 | prpplague | ce_geek easiest way is to boot your initrd, change the usernames and passwords with te utils and then transfer off a copy which can be added to your default build |
| 01:29.55 | prpplague | ds2 when we sell the first 2000 we have made, hehe |
| 01:30.05 | RobotGuy | Sienna:Yes, probably for awhile to come at least. I did find that I have three 3.3V sensors. Unfortunately all those you sent me are 5V so I need some level shifters for the I2C bus, etc. |
| 01:30.05 | ds2 | oh :( |
| 01:30.05 | ce_geek | prpplague: Clevah! |
| 01:30.33 | prpplague | Sienna ttl simply means that the value of 0 is equive to a 0 voltage, and 1 is equiv to a more than 50% of Vdd |
| 01:30.34 | ds2 | prpplague: and when you say TTL on the next rev, you really mean TTL right? not using it as a slang for 5V |
| 01:30.46 | ds2 | uh.... |
| 01:30.57 | Sienna | ok! got it... i grew up with that 5v slang stuff |
| 01:30.58 | ds2 | TTL should 0 = 0 - 0.6V; 1 == 1.8V - 5V |
| 01:31.06 | prpplague | ds2 i was generalizing |
| 01:31.26 | ds2 | prpplague: not arguing, trying to figure out if I can sneak by with a 3.3V CMOS in |
| 01:31.37 | Sienna | i really need to crack open all my "electronics for dummies" books again |
| 01:31.43 | prpplague | ds2 yea, i'm doing that now with a flyswatter at the office |
| 01:31.56 | ds2 | Sienna: take a look at the AoE... it is a very useful book |
| 01:32.10 | RobotGuy | hangs out a shingle "Electronics for Dummies" |
| 01:32.16 | Sienna | AoE? |
| 01:32.30 | ds2 | Art of Electronics by Horwitz & Hill |
| 01:32.36 | Sienna | ok |
| 01:32.40 | ds2 | bit dated but lots of useful info |
| 01:32.51 | Sienna | my favorite so far is "practical electronics for inventors" or something |
| 01:32.53 | ds2 | can probally also be used to stop smaller caliber rounds too ;) |
| 01:34.22 | RobotGuy | is a small caliber of round |
| 01:34.59 | Sienna | only 1125 pages.. faw.. . bit of light reading! *gulp* |
| 01:36.00 | RobotGuy | Sienna: My kitty is too smart. I covered up a box I don't want her getting into, and she crawled right under the cover. |
| 01:36.03 | Sienna | ok, added it to the cart for the next amazon book order |
| 01:36.34 | Sienna | Sorry RobotGuy, i dunno anything about kitties... i am alergic :( |
| 01:36.57 | RobotGuy | Sienna: My kitty is way too smart for my own good. |
| 01:37.09 | prpplague | Sienna mmmm kitty cassarole, them's good eats |
| 01:37.28 | RobotGuy | ~whaleslap prpplague |
| 01:37.30 | purl | ACTION beats prpplague upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 01:37.40 | RobotGuy | hides |
| 01:37.45 | prpplague | Sienna and you get furry slippers as an added bonus when you get two of them |
| 01:38.00 | Sienna | hmm! I could use a pair of slippers.... |
| 01:38.13 | Sienna | the people below me don't heat up my floor enough! |
| 01:38.49 | prpplague | we generally don't have a heat problem here |
| 01:38.49 | RobotGuy | Sienna: You must only have ecologically and animal friendly fuzzy slippers |
| 01:39.10 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:39.28 | Sienna | :arch |
| 01:39.29 | prpplague | now i now for sure RobotGuy lives in the portland/seattle area |
| 01:39.30 | landley | prpplague: http://flickr.com/photos/mirell/332445607/in/set-72157594437279434/ |
| 01:39.36 | landley | Because power supplies are warm, that's why. |
| 01:39.41 | Sienna | careful now, or I might order Daleskinned slippers! |
| 01:39.55 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Beaverton, actually, about 20 or so miles SW of Portland. |
| 01:40.07 | prpplague | landley cuties |
| 01:40.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy hehe |
| 01:40.53 | RobotGuy | Yes, I will be at the Linux Plumber's Conference. |
| 01:40.53 | prpplague | jokes with landley |
| 01:41.01 | prpplague | landley those are about ready to make tamales |
| 01:41.41 | prpplague | landley oh oh pretty orange - http://flickr.com/photos/mirell/488141916/in/set-72157594437279434/ |
| 01:42.18 | RobotGuy | OK, don't make me have to break out my baby kitty pictures.. |
| 01:42.59 | prpplague | landley nothing like chating with a cute kitten on the net - http://flickr.com/photos/mirell/488140217/in/set-72157594437279434/ |
| 01:43.09 | RobotGuy | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:43.32 | landley | prpplague: those kittens occured because we didn't get Dragon edited for content rapidly enough. |
| 01:43.42 | landley | We took her in to be abridged right after we'd found homes for them all. |
| 01:44.06 | prpplague | landley hehe |
| 01:44.15 | prpplague | landley Dragon looks a little worn out |
| 01:44.21 | RobotGuy | My kitty happened when Mama cat got out when she wasn't supposed to. |
| 01:44.21 | landley | Understandably so. |
| 01:44.47 | landley | We have four cats: Dragon, George, Peejee, and Aubrey. |
| 01:44.58 | landley | All female, all (except dragon at the time) fixed. |
| 01:45.04 | landley | Dragon used to hit on peejee when she went into heat. |
| 01:45.07 | RobotGuy | My kitty likes to play CATch with paper balls. |
| 01:45.16 | landley | When she finally did have a litter, she had a four surviving kittens. |
| 01:45.28 | RobotGuy | And sabotage all my electronic circuits |
| 01:45.29 | landley | One that looked like aubrey, one that looked like dragon, one that looked like peejee, and one that didn't look anything like george. |
| 01:45.38 | landley | Hence mini-aubrey, mini-dragon, mini-peejee, and not-george. |
| 01:45.46 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:45.56 | landley | All cats sabotage electronics. |
| 01:46.09 | landley | Smokey chewed through the IDE cable in my computer once. While it was running. |
| 01:46.12 | landley | Not a happy computer. |
| 01:46.18 | RobotGuy | I should have got a dog. |
| 01:47.01 | RobotGuy | I regularly find resistors, capacitors, jumper wires, and other such things all around my apartment, under the bed, etc. |
| 01:47.10 | prpplague | Sienna let me know if you have any questions |
| 01:47.21 | prpplague | Sienna there are a number of hammer users here |
| 01:47.34 | RobotGuy | Do I know any of those? |
| 01:47.38 | prpplague | Sienna and as soon as the wiki is back up you can post ther |
| 01:47.50 | RobotGuy | I usually hurt my fingers with hammers. |
| 01:48.17 | Sienna | um, thanks prpplague |
| 01:48.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy GPSFan , landley, samuelr, T0mW, wmat, Dr{Who}, ce_geek |
| 01:48.54 | RobotGuy | was just kidding. :P |
| 01:49.11 | Sienna | purl, do the whale thing to robotguy :P |
| 01:49.13 | purl | ACTION does the whale thing to robotguy :P. |
| 01:49.20 | RobotGuy | :P |
| 01:49.30 | RobotGuy | hides from the whales |
| 01:49.37 | Sienna | thats cheating having a console on it! |
| 01:50.03 | prpplague | ~whaleslap RobotGuy |
| 01:50.03 | purl | ACTION beats RobotGuy upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 01:50.14 | RobotGuy | I'm trying to get motivated to solder two 16 awg stranded wires to PCB pads that are way too small. |
| 01:51.13 | landley | Sienna: The tilde gets purl's attention. |
| 01:51.22 | Sienna | Oh, ok :D |
| 01:52.08 | landley | You can /msg purl help |
| 01:52.16 | landley | But it's not that informative. (Does not list whaleslap.) |
| 01:53.07 | Sienna | ~whaleslap purl |
| 01:53.08 | purl | ACTION beats purl upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 01:53.17 | Sienna | needs a recursion filter :P |
| 01:53.18 | RobotGuy | ~lart purl |
| 01:53.18 | purl | cats /dev/urandom into robotguy's ear |
| 01:53.26 | RobotGuy | Ha ha |
| 01:53.59 | prpplague | Sienna purl is pretty handy, its does currency conversions, measurement conversions as well as many logging features |
| 01:54.09 | Sienna | whose bot is it? |
| 01:54.46 | RobotGuy | wonders what language purl is written in. Mine is in Python. |
| 01:55.15 | RobotGuy | grumbles |
| 01:55.27 | Sienna | turns RobotGuy's frown upside down |
| 01:55.32 | prpplague | ~owner |
| 01:55.33 | purl | TimRiker is my owner |
| 01:56.03 | RobotGuy | Sienna: :D |
| 01:56.19 | RobotGuy | I just hate large wires on too small of pads. |
| 01:57.12 | RobotGuy | I'm still looking for appropriate connectors to use for my battery power on the carrier board. |
| 01:57.42 | prpplague | RobotGuy you would have had a cow today with what i had to do, i had to solder to some 402 pads |
| 01:57.55 | RobotGuy | I can't seem to find anything decent that is 0.1" spaced. |
| 01:58.02 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Um, NO thanks! |
| 01:58.18 | RobotGuy | Even though I think I have an iron I could do that wish. |
| 01:58.38 | RobotGuy | I need to invest in a good panavise setup. |
| 02:01.25 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I should be able to solder QFN/QFP stuff. |
| 02:01.45 | RobotGuy | I have a 0.4mm tip for my iron. |
| 02:01.47 | Sienna | doesn't that have the pad under the chip? |
| 02:01.53 | Sienna | how do you solder that |
| 02:01.53 | prpplague | qfn does |
| 02:02.00 | RobotGuy | Yep. |
| 02:02.13 | RobotGuy | I cheat and use SchmartBoards. |
| 02:02.30 | prpplague | Sienna lots of practice, controled heat, and the right tip |
| 02:03.29 | Sienna | oh... i didn't know it was possible hand wise... certainly means i won't be doing it |
| 02:03.58 | RobotGuy | Sienna: I bet you could do it. |
| 02:04.05 | prpplague | Sienna yea its doable, i did one today |
| 02:04.16 | prpplague | Sienna granted it was ugly and not as good as wave soldering |
| 02:04.41 | Sienna | RobotGuy, i haven't even soldered a SMD device yet, let alone one that has hidden pads |
| 02:04.58 | RobotGuy | Sienna: I hate pads that hide. |
| 02:05.29 | MonMotha | you know, I don't bother with leadless parts |
| 02:05.41 | MonMotha | I either toaster oven them or just have them done professionally if it's for work |
| 02:06.00 | MonMotha | I know QFNs can be done, though you have to design the PCB correctly |
| 02:06.09 | RobotGuy | I am sure I would not try a QFN or BGA. I think I could solder a QFP though. |
| 02:06.12 | MonMotha | attention to the PCB can help hand solderability of QFPs, too |
| 02:06.24 | MonMotha | well, BGAs are flat out impossible with an iron |
| 02:06.31 | MonMotha | you need hot air or full reflow |
| 02:06.32 | prpplague | MonMotha yea, extra long pads with plenty of tin area |
| 02:06.33 | MonMotha | and even hot air is ough |
| 02:06.38 | MonMotha | prpplague: bingo |
| 02:06.48 | Sienna | tin area? |
| 02:06.52 | Sienna | copper? |
| 02:06.54 | MonMotha | I can do pretty much any QFP, though the 0.5mm ones are tricky |
| 02:07.01 | RobotGuy | One part I would really like to use is a BGA though.:( |
| 02:07.16 | Sienna | RobotGuy, look at SFE's skillet :D |
| 02:07.26 | prpplague | Sienna kind of a slang term for adding solder before hand to the pads so the solder wicks up on the parts |
| 02:07.35 | Sienna | oh, ok |
| 02:07.57 | MonMotha | my technique is to apply plenty of flux then drag with some solder on the top (adding to the tip as needed) |
| 02:07.58 | RobotGuy | Sienna: SFE has, um, weird ideas sometimes. :) |
| 02:08.05 | MonMotha | it works well |
| 02:08.30 | MonMotha | the extra long pads are then used mostly to clean up bridges by pulling the excess solder out to the edge of the pad |
| 02:08.45 | RobotGuy | Sienna: It's going to be next month before I can start tinkering with the stuff you sent me. :( |
| 02:08.58 | Sienna | i didn't specify any time table RobotGuy, its ok |
| 02:09.06 | RobotGuy | Sienna: I know. :) |
| 02:09.18 | RobotGuy | I have to get some level shifty chips first. |
| 02:09.24 | Sienna | its going to be a while before I Know the hammer well enough myself |
| 02:09.53 | Sienna | there is a phillips technote out there for 5V to 3.3V IIC buses |
| 02:09.56 | RobotGuy | Hammer doesn't really take that long to get to know. It's pretty friendly. |
| 02:10.55 | Sienna | well, once I know it, i want to hack it onto a 2.3"x3" board :P |
| 02:11.20 | RobotGuy | I just have to order enough stuff from DigiKey to make the shipping worthwhile, like some level shifter chips for I2C and a http://www.luminarymicro.com/products/lm3s6965.html evaluation board. |
| 02:11.43 | RobotGuy | Or maybe an NGW100 board. |
| 02:11.58 | prpplague | landley ping |
| 02:12.00 | prpplague | bobf ping |
| 02:12.18 | Sienna | #$%*#)%*$)(%*)($ GRR!! what is this, SFE carts timeout?! |
| 02:12.21 | RobotGuy | I would love to attach a http://www.luminarymicro.com/products/lm3s6965.html to use with Hammer-RDP |
| 02:12.41 | Sienna | as i said in the email, way to risky |
| 02:12.52 | Sienna | of course, that is what the stack is for |
| 02:13.07 | RobotGuy | Sienna: That is what I was thinking - on a stack board. |
| 02:13.25 | ce_geek | RobotGuy: What's RDP? |
| 02:13.35 | RobotGuy | The http://www.luminarymicro.com/products/lm3s6965.html has most of the additional I/O I would want for W.A.L.T.E.R. |
| 02:13.35 | landley | prpplague: hmmm? |
| 02:13.46 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: Hammer Robotics Development Platform |
| 02:14.08 | ce_geek | Oh cool |
| 02:14.09 | prpplague | RobotGuy why? |
| 02:14.20 | prpplague | RobotGuy why use something like the luminary? |
| 02:14.28 | RobotGuy | prpplague: One chip to rule them all. :) |
| 02:14.48 | RobotGuy | It has two quadrature encoder modules. Otherwise I use two dsPICs. |
| 02:14.52 | Sienna | cause that worked out SO well for Sauron |
| 02:14.58 | prpplague | hehe |
| 02:15.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy avr stuff works soooo much better in conjuntion with an arm |
| 02:15.20 | Sienna | besides, the Hammer is the one chip! |
| 02:15.27 | RobotGuy | looks at his arm and wonders.. |
| 02:15.28 | landley | Eh, you just need to befriend mythological creatures and ask them to do the soldering for you. |
| 02:15.31 | prpplague | my personal favorite is the atmega48 |
| 02:15.34 | Sienna | hey prpplague, when are you releasing a 500MHz hammer :D |
| 02:15.45 | landley | A 402 pad's nothing to a 6 inch tall sprite, although they may insist on using silver instead of lead solder... |
| 02:15.53 | landley | Finding them is your problem. |
| 02:15.59 | RobotGuy | has some silver solder |
| 02:16.07 | Sienna | has sprite |
| 02:16.08 | Sienna | s |
| 02:16.11 | prpplague | Sienna its designed - http://www.elinux.org/SledgeHammer_Board |
| 02:16.24 | prpplague | landley hehe |
| 02:16.28 | RobotGuy | solders some of Sienna's sprites. ;) |
| 02:16.38 | Sienna | prpplague: gawk |
| 02:16.43 | Sienna | when when when! |
| 02:17.00 | ce_geek | Yes, when. WANT. |
| 02:17.05 | RobotGuy | I thought Sledge was just a Hammer with more I/O, not faster. |
| 02:17.24 | prpplague | landley boss is going to have some nail boards for OLS and LPC |
| 02:17.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy s3c2440 |
| 02:17.37 | prpplague | RobotGuy 405mhx |
| 02:17.39 | prpplague | MHz |
| 02:17.53 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OH! I did not know that was Sledge! |
| 02:17.58 | prpplague | RobotGuy the big question we have is what ram/flash combo |
| 02:18.11 | Sienna | I want to know footprint! |
| 02:18.42 | Sienna | (already has hammers acting as slaves in her head to a sledge) |
| 02:18.48 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I already told ya. :) I would like at least 128 MB RAM/64 MB Flash, but the flash isn't as important to me anymore. RAM is though. |
| 02:18.53 | prpplague | Sienna don't have the exact numbers at the house, but its something like 1.5" x 4" |
| 02:18.55 | Redhatter | We've got hammers, we've got nails... now we just need the hunk of wood to hammer the nails into. |
| 02:19.09 | prpplague | RobotGuy its also about costs |
| 02:19.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yeah, I know, the dreaded bottom line. |
| 02:19.27 | prpplague | Redhatter hehe |
| 02:19.27 | ce_geek | avoids making some really bad joke about wood. |
| 02:19.46 | Redhatter | ce_geek, Ahh, I'm sure the others wooden mind ;-) |
| 02:19.47 | Sienna | narg... 4"? lesigh |
| 02:20.03 | prpplague | Sienna its fairly large compared to the hammer |
| 02:20.08 | RobotGuy | Redhatter: That's what the BOARD is for.. |
| 02:20.51 | landley | prpplague: coolness. |
| 02:21.05 | landley | I'm not going to LPC, but I am going to OLS and CELF. |
| 02:21.16 | landley | (And Penguicon, but I'm not sure that counts. :) |
| 02:21.19 | RobotGuy | It looks like the box that elinux.org will be on is getting rebuilt. |
| 02:21.25 | prpplague | landley okie dokie, we should have some for each |
| 02:21.39 | RobotGuy | I can only go to LPC. |
| 02:22.53 | prpplague | anyone else besides me totally upset at the changes Harpo is doing to Discover Channel? |
| 02:22.56 | RobotGuy | Sienna: Come to LPC and you can meet W.A.L.T.E.R. - I hope to have him fully operational and terrorizing everything and everyone by time for LPC. :) |
| 02:23.17 | landley | Cool! |
| 02:23.28 | landley | must figure out the proper method for giving them away to the right people. |
| 02:23.32 | landley | is open to suggestions. |
| 02:23.47 | RobotGuy | holds out his hand - there a place for one. :) |
| 02:23.49 | prpplague | landley i think we are going to give a few to Tim Bird for OLS as well |
| 02:24.33 | RobotGuy | My kitty better look out when W.A.L.T.E.R. goes operational. |
| 02:24.58 | prpplague | landley normall i'd say the person who purchase me the most beer for the conference , but you might have to sub that for redbull |
| 02:25.31 | landley | Cool. |
| 02:25.36 | landley | Which conferences will you be at? |
| 02:25.38 | prpplague | MonMotha ping |
| 02:25.49 | MonMotha | pong |
| 02:26.10 | MonMotha | prpplague: pong |
| 02:26.14 | prpplague | landley so far the only one on my list is the "Anders Home Conference" which is held on my couch |
| 02:26.16 | RobotGuy | Hey Sienna, want to solder these 16 gauge stranded power wires to a Lynxmotion Bot Board II for me? |
| 02:26.25 | prpplague | MonMotha http://www.elinux.org/M5900 |
| 02:26.47 | landley | Well, I leave for CELF on monday. |
| 02:26.55 | MonMotha | prpplague: what's that carrier board? |
| 02:26.55 | landley | Might want to ship the CELF ones straight to Tim... |
| 02:27.06 | Sienna | RobotGuy, not particulary, since I have my own boards I need to be soldering to :P |
| 02:27.07 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Is it workable to have a right angle JTAG connector? |
| 02:27.20 | RobotGuy | Durn |
| 02:27.30 | prpplague | MonMotha we normally do a dev board for the design spread out and using .1" centers on an 8.5"x11" board |
| 02:27.47 | MonMotha | ah, I see |
| 02:27.55 | prpplague | landley oh |
| 02:28.04 | landley | Well CELF is next week, you know... |
| 02:28.13 | prpplague | landley i'll have to check and see on the status of the shipment |
| 02:28.17 | RobotGuy | I wish I could go to that! |
| 02:28.22 | landley | Tim can hand 'em to me for my tutorial. That's on thursday. |
| 02:28.26 | RobotGuy | Maybe next year. |
| 02:28.31 | prpplague | MonMotha thats the mm5900 which doesn't have 802.11 |
| 02:28.33 | landley | It just won't do any good to have 'em in Austin if I'm not there. :) |
| 02:28.50 | prpplague | MonMotha *cough* you should look at the picture closely |
| 02:29.12 | landley | Watching Steven Hawking give a speech is... odd. |
| 02:29.16 | landley | I'm not sure what the video is _for_. |
| 02:29.25 | landley | He's... sort of moving, slightly, occasionally... |
| 02:29.31 | landley | They change camera angles. |
| 02:29.32 | RobotGuy | I need a keyboard like that for my remote robot console. But then, I like the idea of a touch screen too. :) |
| 02:29.53 | MonMotha | prpplague: any particular area I should be looking at? |
| 02:30.30 | prpplague | landley at risk of being in serious trouble with my wife looking over my shoulder , maybe the video would benefit from the hooter girls dancing while he gives his speech? |
| 02:30.51 | landley | prplague: you tell me, http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/242 |
| 02:31.23 | prpplague | MonMotha i can't say much, but it does have features on the dev board that aren't advertised |
| 02:31.35 | MonMotha | I see |
| 02:31.58 | prpplague | MonMotha might try comparing the feature list with what you see on the board |
| 02:32.02 | ce_geek | Just curious, what if you trash buildroot/target/device/Samsung/Hammer/target_skeleton/ ? |
| 02:32.04 | MonMotha | I can't read any of the silkscreening really, so that makes it tough. I do see an atmel device of some sort |
| 02:32.21 | ce_geek | (I didn't, but I'm going to make changes, just wondering how tricky to get back to stock. |
| 02:32.24 | MonMotha | oh, that's not a USB-B connector in the corner... :) |
| 02:32.25 | ce_geek | ) |
| 02:33.00 | prpplague | whistles |
| 02:33.01 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: You should always have a backup of that. You DO have a backup, right?? |
| 02:34.01 | prpplague | MonMotha lets just say someone could purchase a 5900 and really make use of the features |
| 02:34.13 | ce_geek | RobotGuy: Yeah, going to back it up before I change it. |
| 02:34.30 | landley | prpplague: the 5900 was the hideously expensive one, right? |
| 02:34.47 | MonMotha | prpplague: indeed |
| 02:34.55 | prpplague | landley hehe they all are but the 5900 is the least expensive one |
| 02:35.14 | prpplague | mainly because its advertised without 802.11 |
| 02:35.40 | prpplague | basically a low cost data collector |
| 02:36.29 | prpplague | landley add a barcode scanner to something and the price jumps by 400% |
| 02:36.37 | landley | Don't want a barcode scanner. |
| 02:36.50 | landley | But the keyboard, battery, and text display are interesting... |
| 02:37.01 | landley | ponders getting an N810... |
| 02:37.15 | prpplague | landley what would use it for? when you could get a pda or something cheap? |
| 02:37.25 | RobotGuy | just wants something he can make his own little control computer with, like an s3c244x |
| 02:37.41 | landley | What would I use an N810 for? |
| 02:37.47 | RobotGuy | landley: I've thought about that also. |
| 02:37.50 | landley | has tinycc working on arm. Sort of. |
| 02:38.02 | landley | could do development on toybox and tinycc on an N810. |
| 02:38.14 | landley | 8 hours battery life, carry with you while walking... |
| 02:38.39 | prpplague | RobotGuyhttp://cgi.ebay.com/HP-iPAQ-Pocket-PC-Rx3715-Mobile-Media-Companion-kybrd_W0QQitemZ290220215275QQihZ019QQcategoryZ38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 02:38.42 | landley | Get tinycc working well enough and I could rebuilt the system it's running under itself. :) |
| 02:39.01 | prpplague | landley the n810 get s 8 hours? |
| 02:39.12 | landley | prpplague: depending on what you're doing with 'em. |
| 02:39.16 | landley | And I think that's with no backlight. |
| 02:39.17 | prpplague | landley i wouldn't have only expected 4 or 5 |
| 02:39.23 | landley | And letting the processor idle a lot. |
| 02:39.29 | landley | does not actually have one. |
| 02:39.36 | landley | But David Mandala up near Dallas does. |
| 02:40.01 | prpplague | landley minus the BC, the 5900 would get around 20 hours of continous usage |
| 02:40.04 | RobotGuy | EBay shipping is often crazy high, but that looks interesting. |
| 02:40.19 | prpplague | RobotGuy thats 2440 based |
| 02:40.37 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Oooooh, it just got shinnier.. |
| 02:41.14 | prpplague | RobotGuy or if you want a PDA version of the hammer - http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-IPAQ-H1945-POCKET-PC-PDA-BLUETOOTH-WARRANTY_W0QQitemZ360039034292QQihZ023QQcategoryZ38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 02:41.37 | prpplague | RobotGuy that will even boot the same kernel as the hammer |
| 02:41.57 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Oh! S3C244x? |
| 02:42.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy the 1940 is 2410 |
| 02:42.25 | Sienna | there you go RobotGuy, your hammer with all your fancy I/O stuff |
| 02:42.32 | MonMotha | prpplague: can you per chance tell me what wifi chip(set) the M5900 series uses when equipped with wifi? |
| 02:42.33 | Sienna | go buy an ipaq ;P |
| 02:42.42 | RobotGuy | Sienna: :D:D I wonder how much RAM and Flash it has. |
| 02:43.01 | prpplague | MonMotha *cough* the M5900 isn't sold with wifi , but the M7220 is |
| 02:43.13 | MonMotha | same series, I take it? |
| 02:43.36 | MonMotha | they certainly look similar from the outside |
| 02:44.47 | Sienna | Ok... nighty night time! Have fun all |
| 02:44.57 | prpplague | whistles |
| 02:45.07 | RobotGuy | Windows Smindows. If I get one, it's going to do Linux. :D |
| 02:46.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy fully supported by handhelds.org stuff |
| 02:46.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Handhelds.Org is so cool. |
| 02:46.53 | prpplague | MonMotha i hope i've laid down enough bread crumbs |
| 02:47.02 | MonMotha | prpplague: you indeed have |
| 02:47.08 | RobotGuy | I forgot Sienna is on the east coast. |
| 02:47.31 | MonMotha | do you perhaps have a good list of wifi devices supported on ARM? |
| 02:47.37 | RobotGuy | I picked up all the crumbs. I wasn't supposed to do that? |
| 02:47.53 | prpplague | MonMotha well, RobotGuy just got one of his working |
| 02:48.05 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: I got a USB Ralink adapter working on my Hammer |
| 02:48.09 | prpplague | MonMotha and there is a good list on the linux-usb.org pages |
| 02:48.12 | MonMotha | ok |
| 02:48.24 | MonMotha | I know many wifi devices use binary blobs that only work on i386 |
| 02:48.33 | RobotGuy | It even configures at boot up now. :) |
| 02:48.51 | prpplague | thats one of the basic advantages of usb |
| 02:48.55 | prpplague | usb is usb is usb |
| 02:49.16 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: http://www.edimax.com/en/produce_detail.php?pd_id=3&pl1_id=1&pl2_id=44 is what I have working now. |
| 02:49.41 | RobotGuy | I just have to get a new WiFi router so I can complete testing. |
| 02:49.49 | MonMotha | prpplague: indeed, issue is drivers |
| 02:49.56 | RobotGuy | Not a Gateway, but a real Router. |
| 02:50.26 | MonMotha | I have to say I'd really like to see some SPI interfaced wifi |
| 02:50.40 | prpplague | MonMotha there are plenty out there |
| 02:50.46 | prpplague | MonMotha problem is docs |
| 02:50.57 | landley | prpplague: except usb2 is 10x faster than usb1. :) |
| 02:51.15 | landley | (Was it metcalfe's law that ethernet will never die because each new technology gets renamed "ethernet"?) |
| 02:52.18 | prpplague | landley indeed that is true, but a linux usb driver will generally work for any host processor with a functional and supported host controller |
| 02:53.34 | prpplague | points MonMotha back to the m5900 dev board picture |
| 02:56.37 | prpplague | lets just say, for someone who purchased the M5900 and wanted to do some custom features, its plenty worth of it |
| 02:56.46 | prpplague | worthy |
| 03:04.59 | RobotGuy | Well, G'Night all. Your favorite comic relief is exiting for now. I might actually leave my apartment for awhile tomorrow, just to show that I really CAN do it. :) |
| 03:06.12 | MonMotha | prpplague: I gathered that |
| 03:16.47 | prpplague | heads to bed |
| 03:16.48 | prpplague | later folks |
| 04:00.11 | *** join/#edev DrZimmerman (n=theo@tbaumgartner.broker.freenet6.net) |
| 04:18.19 | *** join/#edev linac (n=lin@59.61.124.100) |
| 04:26.08 | *** join/#edev ccjoe (n=ccjoe@75-169-37-101.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 04:55.13 | *** join/#edev steliosk (n=Stelios@athedsl-282332.home.otenet.gr) |
| 05:09.42 | *** join/#edev linac (n=lin@59.61.124.100) |
| 05:25.31 | *** join/#edev harpal (n=harpal@121.246.75.165) |
| 06:00.06 | *** join/#edev drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07EBA2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:25.10 | *** join/#edev [AD]Turbo (n=turbo@host131-128-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 07:26.08 | [AD]Turbo | hi there |
| 07:51.57 | *** join/#edev howtoo (n=howtoo@195.159.62.66) |
| 07:52.31 | *** join/#edev KazaLite (n=kazaLite@203.215.180.205) |
| 08:11.17 | KazaLite | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:28.55 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@p57BD2119.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:05.15 | bobf | prpplague: Ping. :( |
| 09:05.19 | bobf | Anyone know what he wanted? |
| 09:30.08 | *** join/#edev Appleman1234 (n=Appleman@CPE-124-186-229-83.qld.bigpond.net.au) |
| 10:29.24 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 10:57.39 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.115.218.135.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 11:40.29 | *** join/#edev rodserling (n=rodserli@unaffiliated/rodserling) |
| 12:23.19 | *** join/#edev diJenerate (n=dijenera@66.54.118.16) |
| 12:26.08 | *** join/#edev _trine (n=trine@38.100.90.3) |
| 12:50.06 | *** join/#edev chouimat|work (n=dieu@209.217.106.98) |
| 12:58.24 | *** join/#edev hw_ (n=hw@p578b3905.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:59.12 | *** join/#edev diJenerate (n=dijenera@66.54.118.16) |
| 13:00.00 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 13:02.36 | *** join/#edev GPSFan (n=kenm@12.10.255.246) |
| 13:02.36 | *** mode/#edev [+o GPSFan] by ChanServ |
| 13:09.38 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 13:26.34 | prpplague | wmat: elinux and CELF have lost a lot of credit over this elinux.org outage |
| 13:32.10 | RobotGuy | What does CELF have to do with elinux.org? |
| 13:32.36 | prpplague | RobotGuy: CELF current sponsors elinux.org |
| 13:32.39 | RobotGuy | They should try hosting at webfaction.com where I host. |
| 13:32.56 | RobotGuy | OK, CELF sucks then. |
| 13:33.19 | prpplague | why does CELF suck? |
| 13:33.52 | prpplague | if any sucks its godaddy |
| 13:34.00 | wmat | prpplague: godaddy sucks |
| 13:34.03 | RobotGuy | prpplague: You said they sponsor elinux.org, and there was the recent outage. Doesn't that make CELF somewhat responsible? |
| 13:34.11 | prpplague | RobotGuy: uh no |
| 13:34.29 | prpplague | RobotGuy: sponsor means they pay the bills, doesn't mean they are responsible for outages |
| 13:34.29 | RobotGuy | OK, the GoDaddy sucks. :) |
| 13:34.55 | RobotGuy | s/the/then/ |
| 13:35.32 | RobotGuy | has already been up for 4 hours. |
| 13:37.30 | prpplague | yea, been up since around 3:45 am myself, bad storms |
| 13:39.42 | chouimat|work | hi prpplague |
| 13:40.06 | prpplague | chouimat|work: greetings |
| 13:40.24 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I just don't feel well today, and woke up early. |
| 13:40.56 | RobotGuy | Why can't CELF just switch elinux.org to a better hoster?? |
| 13:41.13 | GPSFan | prpplague: any clue as to why elinux.org went down? |
| 13:41.43 | Crofton | geekisp ! |
| 13:42.12 | prpplague | GPSFan: no, godaddy is basically got M$ style tech support, "uh i duno, you better wipe and reload" |
| 13:42.26 | RobotGuy | www.webfaction.com is by far the best web hoster I have found to date, and I have been around to various ones. |
| 13:42.45 | prpplague | Crofton: yea, i need to ask TimB about moving |
| 13:42.47 | GPSFan | prpplague: it seemd to go down about the time all the Android on N800 stuff was put up. lots of traffic resulted. |
| 13:42.54 | prpplague | Crofton: godaddy scares me now |
| 13:43.17 | Crofton | but their commercials .... |
| 13:43.26 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have 9 sites hosted at Webfaction on a single account. |
| 13:43.49 | RobotGuy | Crofton: GoDaddy also has M$ style marketing. |
| 13:44.03 | GPSFan | Crofton: their commercials are superb, too bad they spent all their $$ their rather than on competent tech support. |
| 13:44.35 | chouimat|work | competent tech support??? I thought such thing was a myth |
| 13:44.50 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea so we've lost a months worth of data, since we didn't have backups running yet on the site |
| 13:44.51 | RobotGuy | chouimat|work: Not at webfaction.com |
| 13:45.04 | wmat | prpplague: you know who I love :) GeekISP |
| 13:45.06 | RobotGuy | prpplague: ACK, not good! |
| 13:45.12 | GPSFan | prpplague: ;>(( |
| 13:45.23 | prpplague | wmat: why didn't we go with geekisp? |
| 13:45.57 | wmat | prpplague: i don't remember, maybe 'cause they're openbsd servers |
| 13:46.03 | prpplague | ahh |
| 13:47.27 | RobotGuy | What is wrong with OpenBSD? |
| 13:50.09 | RobotGuy | Good thing I have a copy of the JFFS2 howto. |
| 13:50.47 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Make the page titled the way you want it and I will add the content back. |
| 13:51.14 | GPSFan | prpplague: I can't believe that they don't make nightly backups. guess that's what you get from a cut rate hoster. (or hoser as the case may be) |
| 13:51.39 | RobotGuy | GPSFan: Don't insult our Canadian friends that way.. :P |
| 13:51.49 | wmat | is a hoser |
| 13:52.36 | GPSFan | wmat: appologies, hven't you ever seen "Strange Brew" |
| 13:52.55 | wmat | GPSFan: many, many times. I don't mind being called a hoser at all. ;) |
| 13:53.02 | wmat | take off |
| 13:53.34 | wmat | has the original Bob & Doug Mackenzie album on vinyl |
| 13:53.47 | GPSFan | ;>) |
| 13:54.05 | prpplague | wmat: i can't understand why they won't provide a copy of the vm |
| 13:57.10 | Crofton | take off hoser |
| 13:58.17 | GPSFan | eeh. |
| 14:01.34 | wmat | prpplague: nor do I, but it's too late, as Tim R. already reprovisioned. |
| 14:12.27 | RobotGuy | decides to start working on his own Wiki. |
| 14:12.52 | RobotGuy | wmat: To the great white north! :) |
| 14:13.37 | RobotGuy | wmat: Still with GoDaddy? |
| 14:13.51 | wmat | RobotGuy: for now |
| 14:14.17 | RobotGuy | I'm going to start putting my content on my own Wiki as well as elinux.org. |
| 14:14.45 | RobotGuy | Is elinux.org using MediaWiki or TikiWiki? |
| 14:17.06 | *** join/#edev diJenerate (n=dijenera@66.54.118.16) |
| 14:18.02 | RobotGuy | Ah, it's MediaWiki |
| 14:20.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy: well in 7 years we've only lost data twice |
| 14:20.14 | prpplague | RobotGuy: so i think thats pretty good |
| 14:21.00 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I don't call the recent loss good. |
| 14:21.23 | RobotGuy | ANY data loss is NOT good. |
| 14:21.44 | prpplague | RobotGuy: agreed |
| 14:22.20 | wmat | is pissed he has to configure the mediawiki installation again |
| 14:22.48 | prpplague | i'm afraid we've lost alot of momentum with alot of people using the wiki |
| 14:22.50 | RobotGuy | I'd be shopping for a new hoster real fast if I had data loss like that, unless of course the hoster could explain the loss and outage with reasonable reasons and assure me it would NOT happen again. |
| 14:23.02 | prpplague | i know the android folks and omap folks aren't happy |
| 14:23.04 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Due to the recent loss? |
| 14:23.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea |
| 14:23.14 | RobotGuy | I'm not happy either. |
| 14:23.18 | prpplague | RobotGuy: well, i have to use what CELF pays for |
| 14:23.28 | RobotGuy | But I probably don't count for much. |
| 14:24.25 | RobotGuy | I am going to put MediaWiki up on one of my domains - several are still unused at present. |
| 14:27.41 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 14:27.41 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 14:32.13 | *** join/#edev ce_geek (n=ce_geek@roger-blanchette-4.umelst.maine.edu) |
| 14:37.23 | RobotGuy | I'm configuring MediaWiki at www.hybotics.info for anyone interested. |
| 14:39.20 | ce_geek | Trying to get eth0 configured at boot time on the hammer. I put this line right after the line for l0: http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/jeep.jpg |
| 14:39.54 | ce_geek | It is intermittent. Works sometimes, not others. |
| 14:40.08 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: Which line did you add? |
| 14:40.19 | ce_geek | Wow..... |
| 14:40.19 | ce_geek | wow. |
| 14:40.20 | ce_geek | okay |
| 14:40.30 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: Are you doing it in inittab? |
| 14:41.08 | RobotGuy | Hmmm, maybe I should post my entire inittab (well commented) somewhere. |
| 14:41.18 | ce_geek | null::sysinit:/sbin/ifconfig eth0 192.168.4.1 up |
| 14:41.25 | ce_geek | I added that in inittab |
| 14:41.34 | ce_geek | Right after null::sysinit:/sbin/ifconfig lo 127.0.0.1 up |
| 14:41.54 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: Do you have all the appropriate drivers in your kernel for your interface? |
| 14:42.01 | ce_geek | Yes. |
| 14:42.13 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: Are all the correct modules loaded? |
| 14:42.33 | ce_geek | It works usually, just sometimes when it boots things don't work. |
| 14:42.36 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: You may have to load some modules from inittab to make things work reliably. |
| 14:42.42 | ce_geek | hmm |
| 14:44.03 | ce_geek | Seems like some things might be racing to happen. Not sure just what yet. |
| 14:44.06 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: http://www.pastebin.ca/979657 <-- This is my current inittab |
| 14:44.39 | ce_geek | I've noticed that if I hit the reset button, it hasn't failed yet. It works every time it comes up. |
| 14:44.49 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: You will notice that I load some modules from inittab for various things. |
| 14:44.51 | ce_geek | If I cycle power though, it's hit or miss. |
| 14:45.38 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: I can cycle power, reboot, etc, and everything comes up properly on my Hammer. :) |
| 14:46.53 | ce_geek | I notice you probe for your ethernet module before configuring your ethernet device. |
| 14:46.54 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: Some module(s) your device driver module needs may have to be loaded first. I do that with usbnet because I was seeing problems. No problem with it now. :) |
| 14:47.14 | ce_geek | modprobe g-ether |
| 14:47.27 | ce_geek | Hmmn I can't modprobe. Cool. |
| 14:47.33 | ce_geek | modprobe: cannot parse modules.dep |
| 14:48.04 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: That is how I load modules. :) |
| 14:48.17 | ce_geek | yup yup |
| 14:48.46 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: I always make sure the required modules are loaded before I configure a device. |
| 14:49.08 | ce_geek | Seems wise. |
| 14:49.37 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: It works, and I don't see weird or flaky problems. :) |
| 14:49.57 | ce_geek | I'll just figure out this modprobe issue and then I'll try ti. |
| 14:49.59 | ce_geek | *it |
| 14:50.43 | RobotGuy | I had to force load the usbnet module because it was not being pulled in when I loaded others. |
| 14:51.08 | RobotGuy | You may have to do something similar. |
| 14:53.42 | *** join/#edev magnetron (n=magnetro@unaffiliated/magnetron) |
| 14:59.18 | *** join/#edev dirk2 (n=dirk@F30cb.f.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 15:00.05 | *** join/#edev landley (n=landley@adsl-68-93-84-18.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 15:00.10 | *** mode/#edev [+o landley] by ChanServ |
| 15:01.12 | prpplague | landley: greetings |
| 15:01.35 | landley | Morning. |
| 15:01.39 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ok, so i've sent right at a week now trying to bringup this custom led backlight circuit |
| 15:02.20 | landley | So the EE managed to screw up a "battery connects to light bulb" circuit? |
| 15:02.22 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: finally told the boss i wasn't doing any more on it untill EE proved that the circuit worked |
| 15:02.40 | prpplague | landley: hehe |
| 15:02.46 | landley | I mean that takes talent. |
| 15:02.51 | Crofton | well LED's aren't quite lightbulbs ... |
| 15:02.54 | SpeedEvil | LED baclights tend to be _slightly_ less trivial than that. |
| 15:03.03 | landley | I had one of those working with a wire of solder a D cell, and a flash light bulb when I was 5. |
| 15:03.05 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: he's been working on it since 8 this morning (2 hours) and he still can get it to work hardwired |
| 15:03.06 | Crofton | I would assume there is a current regulator to vary brightness |
| 15:03.07 | SpeedEvil | Especially if you've got a battery voltage under the Vf |
| 15:03.15 | landley | can't, you mean? |
| 15:03.22 | Crofton | boost regualtor, easy :) |
| 15:03.27 | prpplague | s/can/can't |
| 15:03.32 | SpeedEvil | Crofton: pretty easy, yes. |
| 15:03.33 | landley | SpeedEvil: I'm aware of this, but he has a 4 year degree in the subject and I was _5_. |
| 15:03.35 | prpplague | landley: yea my bad, i do that all the time |
| 15:03.50 | Crofton | has 12 years of EE education |
| 15:03.51 | landley | prpplague: so he sent you a design he'd never tested? |
| 15:03.58 | prpplague | landley: pretty much |
| 15:04.02 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 15:04.13 | prpplague | landley: and instead of using an off the shelf asic, he made the entire circuit from scratch |
| 15:04.20 | Crofton | idiot |
| 15:04.21 | landley | Why? |
| 15:04.29 | Crofton | cheaper |
| 15:04.36 | prpplague | he figured out it was $0.05 cheaper |
| 15:04.55 | Crofton | what sort of volume do you do? |
| 15:04.57 | prpplague | components wise, but he didn't figure in the cost of assembly |
| 15:05.07 | prpplague | Crofton: this would be in a 5k volume |
| 15:05.10 | landley | Even I try to avoid reimplementing stuff out of libc without a decent excuse... |
| 15:05.28 | Crofton | well, there went his $250 savings |
| 15:05.38 | landley | He gets paid how much per hour? |
| 15:05.43 | landley | And spent how long designing this? |
| 15:06.14 | prpplague | Crofton: yea, on top of that his design has 3 times as many components, so assembly will definetly eat up his small savings |
| 15:06.32 | prpplague | landley: salary, and its taken about 7 months |
| 15:06.47 | prpplague | landley: and he started with a reference design |
| 15:07.04 | landley | Salary doesn't matter. He gets paid for every week worked and it took up x% of the hours he worked in the week. |
| 15:07.05 | Crofton | built a few LED array (4 strings of 6 LEdS) for a cave light once |
| 15:07.09 | landley | You can still calculate a cost to the company. |
| 15:07.15 | landley | Plus tying up the time of _other_ people... |
| 15:07.33 | prpplague | landley: indeed |
| 15:07.41 | Crofton | where did he get the design |
| 15:08.28 | Crofton | does it use any IC? |
| 15:09.00 | prpplague | Crofton: the core of the design is from samsung, i.e. the samsung reference design for the s3c2440 |
| 15:09.12 | Crofton | ah |
| 15:09.20 | Crofton | but no custom LED controller |
| 15:09.52 | prpplague | Crofton: correct |
| 15:10.08 | prpplague | Crofton: the reference design used an asic for led driver |
| 15:10.10 | Crofton | I use one of these now :) |
| 15:10.11 | SpeedEvil | The LED thing is a _gift_ though. |
| 15:10.12 | Crofton | http://www.stenlight.com/ |
| 15:10.24 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: ? |
| 15:10.53 | SpeedEvil | I mean - it's a clear misunderstanding of the industry IMO. |
| 15:10.59 | RobotGuy | has MediaWiki installed on www.hybotics.info now. :) |
| 15:11.56 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: i don't think anyone other than management was under the impression that this guys knows his stuff |
| 15:12.15 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. |
| 15:13.47 | ce_geek | RobotGuy: Can you tell me where your modules.dep file is? |
| 15:14.18 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: Not offhand. It should be in the modules dir though. |
| 15:15.28 | ce_geek | RobotGuy: k. I definitely don't have it. |
| 15:15.58 | ce_geek | RobotGuy: Heh, if I go to buildroot/project_build_arm/Hammer/root and do a "find | grep modules" I get nothing. |
| 15:16.39 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: Are you making sure your modules are in the initrd? Should be in {project_root}/lib/modules/2.6.22 |
| 15:17.06 | ce_geek | RobotGuy: Hrmm. I might not have modules now that I think about it. I bet they're in the kernel. |
| 15:17.16 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: You have to manually make sure your kernel modules are put into your initrd. This does not happen automatically. |
| 15:17.43 | ce_geek | I remember this discussion. I think I decided at the time I didn't want to horse around with modules for the time being and it's built into my kernel instead. |
| 15:18.20 | ce_geek | Which... leaves me wondering what to try next since the driver should be loaded when the kernel loads. |
| 15:19.28 | ce_geek | RobotGuy: Hmmn: user.debug kernel: drivers/net/usb/kaweth.c: Driver loading |
| 15:20.34 | ohsix | you only need an initrd or whatever if you need modules to mount root, or to prepare root for mounting |
| 15:20.53 | ohsix | initramfs is nicer, no pivot :] |
| 15:21.30 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: Some things will not work when built into your kernel, or won't work properly. It just depends on what it is. |
| 15:22.25 | RobotGuy | ohsix: There isn't a pivot now. You just don't get as much available RAM. |
| 15:22.46 | ce_geek | prpplague: Any thoughts? Reader's digest version: My Ethernet driver is compiled into my kernel, it's not a module. When I cycle power, sometimes the ethernet device does not get configured as per inittab. Reset always works. Not sure what to try, can't really do modprobe since it's not a module. |
| 15:23.24 | prpplague | ce_geek: what kind of ethernet device? |
| 15:23.30 | ce_geek | kaweth |
| 15:23.32 | ce_geek | USB |
| 15:23.52 | prpplague | sounds like a timming issue |
| 15:24.01 | ce_geek | prpplague: I agree. Seems like a race or something. |
| 15:24.03 | prpplague | ce_geek: can you pastebin your inittab |
| 15:24.09 | ce_geek | prpplague: love to. |
| 15:24.14 | prpplague | ce_geek: and dmesg as well? |
| 15:25.17 | ce_geek | Here's inittab: |
| 15:25.19 | ce_geek | http://www.pastebin.ca/979707 |
| 15:25.28 | ce_geek | 1 sec for dmesg, waiting for it to boot. |
| 15:27.01 | prpplague | ce_geek: np |
| 15:27.20 | *** join/#edev diJenerate (n=dijenera@72.51.90.191) |
| 15:27.48 | ce_geek | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/979710 |
| 15:27.55 | ce_geek | prpplague: Seems like there's some hocus pocus. |
| 15:28.17 | ce_geek | Hmmn.... the dmesg stuff includes messages that were sent after I configured the ethernet device. |
| 15:28.32 | ce_geek | I should give a dmesg right after booting when the interface is not configured |
| 15:28.54 | ce_geek | Just harder to get from minicom. I hate minicom. I configured the device so I could ssh in and have better luck with scrolling. |
| 15:29.06 | prpplague | ce_geek: you using a usb hub? |
| 15:29.12 | ce_geek | I am not. |
| 15:29.54 | ce_geek | When I cycle power, it hangs here: drivers/net/usb/kaweth.c: kaweth interface created at eth0 |
| 15:30.09 | ce_geek | If I hit reset, it blows right past that, no problem, and I have a configured ethernet interface. |
| 15:30.54 | ce_geek | prpplague: I wonder if the ethernet widget itself needs time to wake up before the hammer board configures it or something. |
| 15:31.15 | prpplague | ce_geek: looks like the s3c2440 ohci is reseting after the system is up |
| 15:31.55 | RobotGuy | uses a USB Hub |
| 15:32.10 | *** join/#edev LyosNorezel (n=Ralph@unaffiliated/lyosnorezel) |
| 15:32.12 | ce_geek | prpplague: hardware or software problem? |
| 15:32.48 | prpplague | ce_geek: i'm guessing software at this stage, but i'm looking now |
| 15:33.05 | RobotGuy | sits by and watches the Master work |
| 15:33.44 | ce_geek | prpplague: dmesg after hitting reset: |
| 15:33.46 | ce_geek | http://www.pastebin.ca/979717 |
| 15:34.13 | prpplague | looks |
| 15:34.48 | prpplague | ce_geek: yea see it only inits the kawaeth driver once |
| 15:35.37 | ce_geek | prpplague: after the reset? |
| 15:35.43 | prpplague | ce_geek: yea |
| 15:35.44 | ce_geek | prpplague: k |
| 15:35.52 | prpplague | ce_geek: unless you didn't paste all of it |
| 15:35.54 | ce_geek | prpplague: so what's causing that? |
| 15:36.07 | ce_geek | Nope, that's where dmesg output stopped. |
| 15:36.39 | *** part/#edev dirk2 (n=dirk@F30cb.f.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 15:36.58 | prpplague | ce_geek: ahh i suspect something in the ohci driver is setting up some of the control registers improperly on first boot |
| 15:37.20 | ce_geek | prpplague: Cute |
| 15:37.44 | prpplague | ce_geek: give me a little and i'll dig into it |
| 15:37.45 | ce_geek | prpplague: Well, so what if I disconnect the USB ethernet, do a hard boot (cycle power), and plug in the USB ethernet widget? |
| 15:37.49 | ce_geek | Sure thing |
| 15:38.05 | prpplague | ce_geek: that should work properly |
| 15:38.30 | ce_geek | prpplague: Even if the ohci driver doesn't apparently do stuff right with the control registers? |
| 15:38.56 | ce_geek | Anyway I'll sit tight, just let me know if I can be helpful. |
| 15:39.46 | prpplague | ce_geek: yea looking at the log, from what i'm seeing, the usb ohci inits the kaweath and uploads the firmware, then after the system finished booting, he thinks it needs to reupload the firmware and tries to do that without a disconnect first |
| 15:39.59 | prpplague | ce_geek: which leads the the failure at the end of the dmesg |
| 15:40.13 | prpplague | drivers/net/usb/kaweth.c: Failed to set Rx mode: -16 |
| 15:40.26 | ce_geek | prpplague: Okay, so do we know why this only happens after a powercycle and not after a reset? |
| 15:40.40 | ce_geek | prpplague: That message seems to come up when I try to use the device, like when I SSH in. |
| 15:42.27 | prpplague | ce_geek: i'll have to dig into it, but again i suspect that the registers aren't set on hard power up, and then they are after a hard reset |
| 15:43.08 | prpplague | ce_geek: did you test booting it up without the usb device and then plugging it in afterwards? |
| 15:44.34 | ce_geek | prpplague: *testing.* I've got to make it not generate the RSA key every time it boots |
| 15:45.22 | ce_geek | That is time consuming. |
| 15:45.41 | prpplague | GPSFan: didn't you use the kawaeth usb device? |
| 15:45.54 | prpplague | ce_geek: indeed embedded dev can be time consumming |
| 15:46.10 | prpplague | ce_geek: hehe as well as rsa key gen |
| 15:46.28 | ce_geek | prpplague: Maybe if I just hardcode those files in the initrd it won't try to calculate it |
| 15:47.29 | GPSFan | prpplague: IIRC, yes I did, but I did not do anything more than run a few iperf tests with it. |
| 15:48.12 | ce_geek | prpplague: Okay, here's what happened when I plugged in the device after booting. I ran ifconfig first, just for giggles. The rest is what follows after plugging it in and just waiting a few seconds. http://www.pastebin.ca/979732 |
| 15:49.46 | GPSFan | prpplague: I had the driver built into the kernel vs module. |
| 15:50.13 | prpplague | yea i think ce_geek has his in kernel as well |
| 15:50.51 | ce_geek | prpplague: Here's what happens when I disconnect the ethernet device: http://www.pastebin.ca/979737 |
| 15:52.09 | *** join/#edev chouimat|Zzzz (n=dieu@r2351064.cidc.net) |
| 15:53.02 | RobotGuy | I've always had much better luck with a completely modular kernel. |
| 15:53.05 | ce_geek | prpplague: Also funky: http://www.pastebin.ca/979743 |
| 15:53.23 | ce_geek | prpplague: I find it odd that I get those messages when I ping it for the first time after bringing the interface up. |
| 15:54.29 | ohsix | how much power do you have available for that adapter? |
| 15:55.20 | ce_geek | Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh using the supply provided with the hammer. |
| 15:55.40 | ce_geek | Using the carrier board. |
| 15:56.00 | ohsix | those ethernet things can be power hungry |
| 15:56.14 | ce_geek | That's a good thought. |
| 15:56.44 | ce_geek | I could understand if it was just slow to wake up or something after a power reset, especially if I'm flirting with power requirements. |
| 15:57.27 | ce_geek | prpplague, ohsix: For giggles maybe I ought to locate a powered USB hub and see if that does anything. I suspect if the USB hub is always powered and I just cycle the hammer, it will work. |
| 15:57.37 | ohsix | the usn chip should have builtin power monitoring, a dmm will probably do a better job though, or the spec sheet |
| 15:57.50 | ohsix | *usb |
| 15:58.07 | ce_geek | ohsix: Yeah a spec sheet for the power consumption of that USB device would be useful. I'll see if I can dig that up. |
| 15:58.16 | ce_geek | ohsix: Power requirements for the hammer must be around somewhere. |
| 15:59.01 | ce_geek | ohsix: Yea okay, there's a sticker on the USB rig, says it likes 5V at 300mA. |
| 15:59.14 | ohsix | thats a bunch |
| 15:59.23 | ce_geek | ohsix: Ya. |
| 15:59.30 | ohsix | http://www.onchip.com/Digital_Products/USB/PDFs/KL5KUSB101DS_ver2_4.pdf |
| 15:59.42 | ce_geek | ohsix: Ooh, and the supply I'm using for the hammer is rated for 1A. How much does the hammer like? |
| 16:00.01 | prpplague | ce_geek: about 200mA |
| 16:00.02 | ohsix | no idea, haven't even looked at the hammer |
| 16:00.29 | prpplague | ce_geek: the usb host port on the hammer carrier should support any standard usb device less than 500mA |
| 16:00.34 | ce_geek | prpplague, ohsix : Hmm. Seems like there's plenty of margin there. 200mA + 300mA < 1A |
| 16:00.44 | GPSFan | prpplague: I don't get any messages in dmesg when I ping my hammer on the kaweth driver ethernet interface. |
| 16:01.02 | ce_geek | GPSFan: Cute. :( |
| 16:01.20 | prpplague | ce_geek: hmm |
| 16:01.23 | GPSFan | lots of messages when the driver inits |
| 16:01.45 | ce_geek | GPSFan, prpplague: Yeah, I get tons and tons when it inits too. |
| 16:02.40 | prpplague | ce_geek: you built a custom apex yet? or are you using the default one that was shipped on the hammer? |
| 16:03.24 | GPSFan | http://pastebin.ca/979757 when it inits, then nothing when it's pinged |
| 16:04.53 | ce_geek | prpplague: Still using the same one. |
| 16:04.58 | ce_geek | prpplague: Why? |
| 16:05.42 | prpplague | ce_geek: there was a bug in one of the very early release of apex for the hammer relating to the usb host, i'm wondering if the boss shipped you one without updating the bootloader |
| 16:05.49 | landley | prpplague: so the nail is taking 500ma upstream and supplying 300 ma to downstream USB? |
| 16:05.54 | ce_geek | prpplague: Easy way to tell? |
| 16:05.58 | GPSFan | iperf gives me ~4mbits/sec and no messages |
| 16:06.01 | prpplague | landley: yea |
| 16:06.32 | ce_geek | prpplague: APEX Boot Loader 1.5.6 <---- not sure if that's sufficient to answer your question or not. |
| 16:06.37 | landley | Are the USB ID info thingies that show available voltage showing that properly? |
| 16:06.44 | landley | wonders how to go about testing them... |
| 16:06.48 | prpplague | ce_geek: sorry no, same version different build dates |
| 16:06.49 | ce_geek | prpplague: Crap I gotta run to class. bbiab |
| 16:07.13 | ce_geek | prpplague: Hehe ok. Well perhaps it's worth going through the motions to make sure that's updated. |
| 16:07.14 | prpplague | ce_geek: np |
| 16:07.34 | prpplague | landley: most usb devices over shoot on their current usage |
| 16:07.51 | prpplague | landley: i.e. if something expects to use 50mA they generally ask for 75 or 100mA |
| 16:08.18 | ohsix | the chip in that thing says 48ma, but doesn't list the phy |
| 16:08.26 | prpplague | landley: problem is you can't ask for more than 500mA, and some devices might need 500mA but have peak about 515 or 525mA |
| 16:17.28 | SpeedEvil | oh/: plus any LEDs |
| 16:27.44 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: I am using a powered USB Hub. |
| 16:31.07 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@p57BD2119.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:36.33 | *** join/#edev emil|k (i=emil@e179234164.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:38.12 | prpplague | landley: ping |
| 17:00.31 | landley | prpplague: pong. |
| 17:00.36 | landley | Was reading about lasers. http://www.utexas.edu/news/2008/04/08/texas_petawatt/?AddInterest=1284 |
| 17:00.47 | landley | Alas, does not fit in a backpack yet. |
| 17:01.26 | landley | prpplague: those devices probably couldn't run from the nail's downstream USB socket anyway. |
| 17:01.50 | landley | Not if it's shaving 200ma off what the upstream USB is capable of providing. |
| 17:07.54 | ce_geek | prpplague: Class is for losers. |
| 17:08.00 | ce_geek | prpplague: (He canceled) |
| 17:21.15 | *** join/#edev ico2 (n=ico2@modem-1038.chameleon.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 17:29.36 | prpplague | landley: hey you still want some hammer/nail flyers for CELF? |
| 17:30.04 | prpplague | landley: yea, i'll have the downstream usb socket limited in software to 300mA |
| 17:30.37 | landley | prpplague: if you send 'em, I'll hand 'em out to my class. |
| 17:30.45 | landley | Or find a flyer table to put them on. |
| 17:30.58 | landley | By "I'll have", I take it the prototypes don't do this? Or is it a Linux software thing? |
| 17:31.20 | prpplague | landley: ok, i'll let the boss know |
| 17:31.48 | prpplague | landley: the current kernel doesn't limit it to 300mA, so you could plug something in that asks for 500mA |
| 17:32.05 | prpplague | landley: in that case your laptop or pc will shut the nail board down due to over current |
| 17:33.53 | prpplague | ce_geek: hehe |
| 17:33.54 | landley | Nail uses 200ma? (Or 150? Or 250?) |
| 17:34.04 | landley | isn't sure it's constant. |
| 17:34.16 | SpeedEvil | IME - most current limit at significantly over 500mA |
| 17:34.17 | prpplague | landley: its actually like around 120mA, but 200mA is a safe value |
| 17:34.51 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: really? the ones i've tested all drop at 510mA |
| 17:35.24 | landley | Should probably have a switch of some kind. "Limit downstream current to 300ma" and docs on why... |
| 17:35.33 | landley | (Not a physical switch, a software thing.) |
| 17:35.42 | prpplague | landley: thats easy to do |
| 17:35.46 | landley | If you're plugging it into a wall outlet->usb converter, you've probably got a couple amps to play with. |
| 17:36.38 | prpplague | lordy lordy, this backlight thing has me feeling totally stressed and worn out |
| 17:37.10 | landley | Did management notice "this guy can't design a working flashlight" thing? |
| 17:37.13 | landley | Christmas lights get this light. |
| 17:37.17 | landley | Streetlights get this right. |
| 17:37.26 | landley | Little book lights you plug into a USB outlet get this right. |
| 17:37.30 | ali_as | Hmm, if it's a 10^15 watt laser pulse, lasting for 10^-13th of a second, then thats only 100 joules. |
| 17:37.52 | prpplague | landley: i think they are getting the picture |
| 17:37.58 | landley | ali_as: I think it's the laser equivalent of a high voltage spark. |
| 17:38.06 | prpplague | landley: as to whether they will actually do anything about it |
| 17:38.15 | landley | Not a whole lot of actual current but boy does it look flashy in the gazillionth of a second it lasts. |
| 17:38.28 | landley | prpplague: your resume is up to date? :) |
| 17:38.38 | prpplague | landley: yea |
| 17:38.48 | prpplague | landley: started updating it about a month ago |
| 17:39.30 | ali_as | It's probably a chirp-Z thing. I wonder how you get results from an experiment lasting less than a picosecond... |
| 17:40.00 | ohsix | backlight thing? |
| 17:40.29 | ali_as | 'So this fusion reactor will work right' 'Yeah sure we tested it for a picosecond and everything ran fine'. |
| 17:40.36 | RobotGuy | wanders off to work on MsBRAT and W.A.L.T.E.R. |
| 17:40.53 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: well - my two laptops go off at around 650 and 700mAm, and my computer was happy at 1.5A |
| 17:41.06 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: wow thats interesting |
| 17:41.22 | prpplague | ohsix: backlight circuit for a tft display |
| 17:41.27 | SpeedEvil | I suspect the motherboard has 2A going to the 4 USB sockets |
| 17:41.32 | prpplague | ohsix: two strings of 3 LEDS |
| 17:41.51 | prpplague | ohsix: instead of using an off the shelf asic for the job, he did every thing from scratch |
| 17:42.03 | prpplague | ohsix: which would fine, IF IT WORKED |
| 17:42.59 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: i'll retest some of our pc's and laptops |
| 17:45.52 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: newer hardware may be more picky - integrated current sense has gotten cheaper - rather than just using stuff like polyfuses. |
| 17:46.12 | SpeedEvil | is usinng a PII/300 laptop and a athlon 2500XP |
| 17:46.39 | ohsix | oic, doesn't maxim have like a million chips for that? |
| 17:46.55 | SpeedEvil | yes - now |
| 17:47.00 | prpplague | ohsix: as well as 50 other manufacturers |
| 17:47.13 | SpeedEvil | not so much in 2002 |
| 17:47.19 | SpeedEvil | Especially not cheap |
| 17:50.32 | *** join/#edev ico2 (n=ico2@modem-1038.chameleon.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 17:51.22 | prpplague | ohsix: the CAT32 chip is just $0.60 in qty 100 and like $0.43 in qty 1000 |
| 17:52.46 | ohsix | a week doesn't go by where i dont get a flyer from maxim about a new led driver, or batter charger & led driver, or a watchdog chip with a led driver |
| 17:53.49 | prpplague | ohsix: yea problem with maxim is there are terrible to work with as an OEM |
| 17:53.55 | prpplague | ohsix: smaller qty stuff its ok |
| 17:54.13 | prpplague | ohsix: but when you get above 1k you really have to exclude maxim |
| 17:54.22 | ds2 | maxim has a lot of cool stuff but lots of stories about lead time and availability |
| 17:56.46 | prpplague | indeed |
| 17:57.21 | prpplague | the EE's design uses 15 parts with the exact same cost as using a cat32 with 6 parts |
| 18:05.44 | landley | Has the EEdiot gotten his design to light up the LED yet? |
| 18:09.47 | ds2 | this EE sounds rather green |
| 18:10.07 | ds2 | like a 3rd year undergrad trying to figure out a project |
| 18:11.44 | ce_geek | prpplague: With regards to apex..... every time I update the kernel, initrd, etc, I use JTAG which grabs apex.bin that I got from the CD. |
| 18:12.37 | prpplague | ce_geek: that should be correct then |
| 18:12.45 | prpplague | landley: no not yet |
| 18:12.52 | ce_geek | Crap. |
| 18:13.01 | ce_geek | prpplague: Running out of simpleish things to fix this. |
| 18:13.42 | landley | So how long has he been trying? |
| 18:13.42 | prpplague | ce_geek: let me see if can replicate the problem here |
| 18:13.50 | prpplague | landley: since 8 am cst |
| 18:17.04 | SpeedEvil | Is it a completely discrete switcher, or any ICs? |
| 18:21.27 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: completely discrete |
| 18:23.00 | ce_geek | uh oh |
| 18:23.06 | ce_geek | RAMDISK: Compressed image found at block 0: length error |
| 18:23.11 | ce_geek | prpplague: That might be bad. |
| 18:23.38 | prpplague | ce_geek: yea you;'ve been gettign that all along |
| 18:23.53 | prpplague | ce_geek: how big is your compressed initrd image? |
| 18:23.55 | ce_geek | prpplague: yeah, I know it's not new.... but is bad? |
| 18:24.10 | prpplague | ce_geek: not serious, just needs to be corrected |
| 18:24.20 | ce_geek | 712k |
| 18:24.28 | prpplague | ce_geek: thats the compressed image? |
| 18:24.36 | ce_geek | yeah |
| 18:24.44 | ce_geek | 4M decompressed |
| 18:25.12 | ce_geek | http://www.pastebin.ca/979962 |
| 18:25.26 | ce_geek | prpplague: I probably have some problems. Perhaps the kernel is too big? |
| 18:25.37 | ce_geek | I should go check to see what .size is |
| 18:29.01 | prpplague | kernel should be fine |
| 18:30.04 | prpplague | ce_geek: can you give me the exact size on the apex.bin file you are using? |
| 18:32.40 | prpplague | ce_geek: can you pastebin you .config for your kernel |
| 18:37.45 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 18:39.00 | RobotGuy | Is there still something screwy going on with elinux.org?? |
| 18:39.14 | RobotGuy | prpplague: ping |
| 18:51.50 | ce_geek | prpplague: Sure, sec. Had an impromptu lab tour. |
| 18:51.57 | ce_geek | er inpromptu or whatever |
| 18:52.03 | prpplague | ce_geek: np |
| 18:52.22 | *** join/#edev ico2_ (n=ico2@modem-1038.chameleon.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 19:03.55 | ce_geek | prpplague: 37908 Feb 29 14:59 apex.bin |
| 19:04.27 | ce_geek | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/980010 |
| 19:07.09 | GPSFan | ce_geek: is that your hammer .config? |
| 19:07.29 | ce_geek | GPSFan: I'm pretty sure it is. |
| 19:07.52 | ce_geek | GPSFan: If it's really scary maybe I'm wrong. |
| 19:08.01 | GPSFan | the arch is set to Versatile not S3C2410 |
| 19:08.29 | GPSFan | probably other things as well, but that just jumpped out |
| 19:09.36 | ce_geek | GPSFan: It was a while ago when I did this, I'm not 100% sure what's what. I'm thinking that given the fun I'm having with some things it's probably time to start over. |
| 19:10.36 | ce_geek | A botched kernel could explain my problems though. |
| 19:10.49 | GPSFan | ce_geek: yeah, start with the defconfig-hammer and copy it to .config, then do a make oldconfig. then diff it to what you think is your current .config |
| 19:10.50 | ce_geek | GPSFan: Is it conceivable that the .config I posted would even run on hammer? |
| 19:12.06 | ce_geek | GPSFan: What do you mean by defconfig-hammer? The default hammer config? There's the hammer-config file.... I guess i'd copy that to .config and then run make menuconfig so I can turn on the kaweth driver and networking and such. |
| 19:12.24 | ce_geek | Then diff it to the .config that's there now (I'll move it so I have it) |
| 19:12.26 | GPSFan | it is missing all the S3C24xx specific stuff that gets patched into pre 2.6.25 kernels. |
| 19:13.54 | ce_geek | prpplague, GPSFan: I'm not 100% sure what the hell I did, and if the directory I'm looking at is the one i used to build the kernel I'm running, etc. It'll be much better if I start over. I'll probably do that after dinner tonight. I'll carefully document what I did and where I did it so I can be more specific about details. Thanks for poking around! |
| 19:14.55 | GPSFan | ce_geek: starting over is probably a good idea. hers is my .config for 2.6.22 http://www.pastebin.ca/980028 |
| 19:17.07 | ce_geek | GPSFan: Much appreciated, thanks! |
| 19:17.42 | GPSFan | ce_geek: np |
| 19:19.24 | GPSFan | ce_geek: that has the kaweth driver turned on, and that kernel is what I'm running on my hammer now. |
| 19:21.31 | GPSFan | it may be larger than the stock hammer kernel at 1038492 bytes for the zImage |
| 19:21.33 | ce_geek | I could technically make that file .config and run "make oldconfig", right? |
| 19:22.07 | GPSFan | yes, as long as your source tree is patched the same. which I think it should be. |
| 19:26.43 | GPSFan | ce_geek: well, it won't be quite the same, I have a driver I added that is in the config, but make oldconfig should figure that out and fix it for you. |
| 19:36.28 | prpplague | ce_geek: wow, that config should not even booted on the hammer |
| 19:37.00 | ce_geek | prpplague: I have zero confidence that it's right. |
| 19:37.14 | ce_geek | prpplague: It was so long ago when I did it. |
| 19:37.22 | prpplague | ce_geek: ahh ok |
| 19:45.37 | *** join/#edev thoughtfix (n=chatzill@65-118-191-179.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 19:46.01 | thoughtfix | Afternoon |
| 19:49.38 | prpplague | greetings |
| 19:49.42 | GPSFan | thoughtfix: howdy |
| 19:50.05 | thoughtfix | My "chasing down the Android on n810" research is leading me here. |
| 19:50.53 | CosmicPenguin | Thats unfortunate |
| 19:50.59 | prpplague | thoughtfix: iirc dirk is the one doing the android dev |
| 19:51.11 | thoughtfix | Neat |
| 19:51.48 | *** part/#edev LyosNorezel (n=Ralph@unaffiliated/lyosnorezel) |
| 19:51.48 | thoughtfix | Dirk got the info from .. um ... Georges |
| 19:52.00 | thoughtfix | So ... I will hang out and listen. I like listening to developers. Call me a masochist. |
| 19:52.07 | prpplague | hehe |
| 19:52.17 | prpplague | thoughtfix: not sure who Georges is |
| 19:52.32 | thoughtfix | Well |
| 19:52.57 | prpplague | thoughtfix: our elinux.org site had a crash this week, way to go godaddy, and the pages aren't current |
| 19:53.01 | thoughtfix | I'm just a geek and a blogger ... so I learn from all of you and try to filter/distill/etc it. |
| 19:53.13 | prpplague | thoughtfix: ahh ok |
| 19:53.24 | thoughtfix | Thats another thing I wanted to bring up when I blog this thing - elinux.org needs a donate button. |
| 19:53.44 | *** join/#edev ico2_ (n=ico2@modem-1038.chameleon.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 19:53.49 | prpplague | thoughtfix: oh? |
| 19:53.56 | prpplague | thoughtfix: why's that? |
| 19:54.20 | thoughtfix | Well -- was it a bandwidth issue or a server issue that took it down? |
| 19:54.30 | prpplague | thoughtfix: server issue |
| 19:54.36 | thoughtfix | oh well |
| 19:54.38 | thoughtfix | in that case |
| 19:54.39 | prpplague | thoughtfix: elinux.org is fully funded by CELF |
| 19:54.46 | thoughtfix | Godaddy is just down the street... I'll go hit them with sticks |
| 19:54.59 | prpplague | thoughtfix: that would have been nice a couple days ago |
| 19:55.35 | prpplague | thoughtfix: i guess you could still do that just for the heck of it |
| 19:55.59 | chouimat|work | prpplague: it sound fun anyway |
| 19:56.26 | prpplague | thoughtfix: another item you may want to look into is the beagleboard.org , #beagle channel |
| 19:56.50 | prpplague | thoughtfix: dirk usually hangs around there and there is a wide range of omap dev occuring |
| 19:57.49 | thoughtfix | Beagle looks interesting to me as a hacker/tinkerer but my blogging is mostly to encourage the mass adoption of Linux consumer devices (MIDs, Nokia internet tablets) |
| 19:57.52 | prpplague | thoughtfix: is there a specific aspect of android on n810 you are interested in? |
| 19:58.05 | prpplague | thoughtfix: ahh |
| 19:58.53 | thoughtfix | Heh - I intend to build a dev environment, compile it, and write up/post the experience. One of my most commented-on entries lately was how the N800/N810 will never be adopted by the average consumer unless the interface and performance is greatly improved. Android MAY be able to do that. |
| 19:59.16 | prpplague | thoughtfix: ahh |
| 19:59.45 | thoughtfix | If I could get moblin working on my Q1 Ultra, I figure I can get Android on my N810 |
| 20:01.44 | prpplague | thoughtfix: i have to admit, #edev discussions usually center around kernel level and hardware level stuff, we don't generally discuss much user space stuff |
| 20:02.09 | thoughtfix | I hope... but then, I can't code my way out of a wet paper bag unless it's in awk and the bag already has a tear in it |
| 20:02.18 | gandhijee | hey anyone know if anyone makes any wireless phys to jackon to a Mii/GMii header? |
| 20:02.55 | thoughtfix | Okay then :) I'll still pop in to listen from time to time. I like taking the stuff the "real hackers" do and bring them to a higher public awareness. |
| 20:03.12 | prpplague | thoughtfix: hehe, you are always welcome here |
| 20:03.22 | gandhijee | hey if you guys had an atom board, what would you like to see on them? |
| 20:03.23 | prpplague | thoughtfix: we have a wide range of developers |
| 20:03.50 | prpplague | gandhijee: which board is that? |
| 20:03.51 | GPSFan | thoughtfix: some of even have nokia tablets... |
| 20:04.04 | prpplague | GPSFan: you got one? |
| 20:04.11 | GPSFan | 770 & N800 |
| 20:04.23 | gandhijee | atom is the menlow proc from intel |
| 20:04.56 | gandhijee | i think i just got the go head to do a dev board |
| 20:04.56 | CosmicPenguin | still needs to devise an "accident" for his N770 |
| 20:05.11 | gandhijee | just wondering what people would like to see on it |
| 20:05.33 | prpplague | gandhijee: ahh , forgot, x86 |
| 20:06.03 | gandhijee | yeah |
| 20:06.11 | gandhijee | not arm =P |
| 20:06.36 | gandhijee | almost did another IXP465 design bout 7 months back |
| 20:06.39 | prpplague | thoughtfix: alot of the android dev is being done on dev boards such as s3c2410 and s3c2440 boards |
| 20:06.46 | prpplague | thoughtfix: as well as omap sdk's |
| 20:06.48 | gandhijee | but it got shelved |
| 20:07.33 | thoughtfix | prpplague: My readers and I share some kind of skepticism about Android as a whole... A sort of "we'll believe it when we see it" thing. |
| 20:07.36 | prpplague | thoughtfix: since the iPhone is based on a custom version of the s3cxxxx series from samsung, its been a target of android dev |
| 20:07.50 | prpplague | thoughtfix: i too am of that sentiment |
| 20:08.10 | thoughtfix | There are so many ways it can go right and so many ways it can go wrong. |
| 20:09.28 | thoughtfix | But its VERY early in all this... Best left in your hands and out of the mass consumer's eye (except of course in proof-of-concept displays like the N810/Android install - just to keep consumer interest high0 |
| 20:09.34 | thoughtfix | Er ... *high) |
| 20:18.59 | thoughtfix | But in any case |
| 20:19.02 | thoughtfix | Lunch time! |
| 20:23.04 | ds2 | oh no... the press is here! |
| 20:23.06 | ds2 | ;) |
| 20:23.27 | *** join/#edev ico2 (n=ico2@modem-1038.chameleon.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 20:30.20 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@72.22.133.170) |
| 20:32.12 | prpplague | dijenerate: ping |
| 20:50.17 | thoughtfix | press is evil ;) |
| 20:53.19 | CosmicPenguin | I so hate openoffice |
| 21:08.51 | thoughtfix | OpenOffice is being spiteful because it smells the residue of Microsoft Office on you |
| 21:09.06 | thoughtfix | Wash all you want - that stuff doesn't come off |
| 21:23.16 | ds2 | Out out... how did that line from macbeth go... |
| 21:24.36 | CosmicPenguin | Then build me a better presentation application |
| 21:24.40 | *** join/#edev Sienna (n=Sienna@pool-71-246-67-252.bltmmd.east.verizon.net) |
| 21:27.19 | ds2 | ghostscript + hand written postscript |
| 21:27.32 | CosmicPenguin | I know it can be done |
| 21:27.33 | ds2 | are you doing slides for ELC? |
| 21:27.42 | CosmicPenguin | I could write the whole thin in LaTex if I wanted to |
| 21:27.55 | CosmicPenguin | I could render it in 3D - but these are not exactly pratical |
| 21:28.24 | ds2 | it is very practical... I've done more using an old Atari 8 bit |
| 21:28.38 | CosmicPenguin | Thats open source development in a nutshell |
| 21:28.52 | ds2 | even used Windows write to layout an entire restruant menu |
| 21:35.27 | Sienna | the people in the elinux channel are quiet :( |
| 21:50.59 | *** join/#edev ico2__ (n=ico2@modem-1844.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 21:54.46 | *** join/#edev ico2__ (n=ico2@modem-1844.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 22:07.44 | *** join/#edev CosmicPe1guin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 22:08.25 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 22:20.43 | *** join/#edev nhoman (n=homann@89.100.83.14) |
| 22:54.05 | thoughtfix | Time for me to split |
| 22:54.38 | thoughtfix | pleasure making your acquaintance |
| 23:01.02 | Crofton | CosmicPenguin, what's up with the geode these days? |
| 23:01.30 | CosmicPenguin | same as it ever was |
| 23:01.50 | Crofton | I saw some guys looking at one of the boards on a website |
| 23:02.13 | Crofton | Is AMD commited to the part? |
| 23:02.28 | CosmicPenguin | Yep |
| 23:02.31 | CosmicPenguin | 5 years at leasta |
| 23:02.44 | ds2 | like it was committed to the ELAN up until they yanked it? ;) |
| 23:02.59 | Crofton | probably not the part for SDR at the moment though :) |
| 23:03.15 | CosmicPenguin | ds2: the AMD of the past isn't like the AMD of the present |
| 23:03.24 | CosmicPenguin | we have embedded clue |
| 23:03.32 | Crofton | The times they are a changing :) |
| 23:03.46 | CosmicPenguin | we grok the importance of supporting these things long term |
| 23:51.26 | *** join/#edev ico2 (n=ico2@modem-1844.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
