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| 00:45.00 | baked_potatoe | Anyone ever worked with any MAXQ microprocessors by maxim-ic? |
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| 07:30.54 | [AD]Turbo | yo all |
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| 13:30.42 | prpplague | ho ho ho |
| 13:30.46 | prpplague | merry freakin monday |
| 13:32.02 | chouimat|work | morning |
| 13:32.09 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 13:33.20 | GPSFan | mornin.. |
| 13:36.59 | prpplague | grumbles |
| 13:38.01 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: you find what you were looking for on friday with regards to the uart configs? |
| 13:42.37 | prpplague | any of you guys read over the linuxdevices.com post about the nail board? i'm curious how to board came across in the article |
| 13:45.52 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I like the repeatition of "unbrickable," |
| 13:48.56 | g1powermac_PB | hey prpplague and GPSFan |
| 13:50.56 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: I like that nail kit, its cute ;-) |
| 13:52.04 | prpplague | chouimat|work: yea i noticed that too |
| 13:52.20 | chouimat|work | prpplague: the article is good ... not to much marketing BS |
| 13:52.23 | chouimat|work | s/to/too |
| 13:52.33 | prpplague | chouimat|work: i think that was landley's doing when he spoke to henry@linuxdevices.com |
| 13:53.34 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I might want to order one ... but I will go take 2 aspirins and take some sleep and wait and see if it passed ;) |
| 13:53.53 | prpplague | chouimat|work: hehe |
| 13:54.42 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: the article is quite good |
| 13:55.04 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: ahh thanks |
| 13:55.41 | g1powermac_PB | but the question is how 'unbrickable' is the nail kit. . . |
| 13:56.46 | g1powermac_PB | I guess with the jtag port, its pretty unbrickable, unless you dropped a brick on it. . . |
| 13:58.36 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: the major fear for most developers is having the bootloader erased |
| 13:58.49 | g1powermac_PB | yea |
| 13:58.53 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: most people are familiar with loading the kernel and rootfs |
| 13:58.55 | g1powermac_PB | got that issue right now with the zipit |
| 13:59.01 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: but the bootloader is what people fear |
| 13:59.17 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: with the nail board, you can always reload the bootloader in a snap |
| 13:59.21 | g1powermac_PB | heck, if you mess up the kernel you'll brick it. . . |
| 13:59.26 | g1powermac_PB | at this point |
| 13:59.37 | GPSFan | g1powermac_PB: morning. |
| 13:59.50 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: that is nice |
| 14:01.49 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: you know, this would be something to integrate with the zipit: http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS5947466557.html |
| 14:02.09 | g1powermac_PB | of course the stupid usb port brought out on the zipit expansion port is usb device |
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| 14:04.15 | GPSFan | g1powermac_PB: it seems that zipit did everything they could think of to keep folks from really making it a useful device. |
| 14:04.39 | g1powermac_PB | yea, to a point |
| 14:04.58 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea |
| 14:05.17 | prpplague | imho they really killed their business |
| 14:05.28 | SpeedEvil | Does zipit sell service too on this thing? |
| 14:05.38 | prpplague | since its not likely there are selling many for their target audience of kids |
| 14:05.44 | g1powermac_PB | but compared to the original zipit, its alot easier to hack |
| 14:06.02 | GPSFan | with all those yellow wires on the first production units I can't believe that there isn't some way to access blob via serial. all that rework and if it doesn't work in test you just throw it away? |
| 14:06.50 | GPSFan | g1powermac_PB: that's relative, the z1 was unbrickable due to the built in low level serial bootloader, once you had the serial mod. |
| 14:06.54 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea, i'm guessing there is one as well |
| 14:06.57 | chouimat|work | prpplague: one of the customers we have here wanted us to make the device unhackable ... and I told the menagement it would be impossible to do, the only thing we can do is to make it harder to do. basicly they are scared to have support call from someone who hacked the device and brick it :) |
| 14:07.02 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: true |
| 14:07.29 | prpplague | i wish tom had sent me his zipit v2, i'd have loved to try it out on the new X-ray machine at our assembly house |
| 14:07.47 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: hmm, would it damage it? |
| 14:07.57 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: hehe, no |
| 14:08.13 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: we x-ray all of bga packages to make sure they are good |
| 14:08.23 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: I might send you mine |
| 14:08.30 | g1powermac_PB | to xray and send it back |
| 14:08.58 | g1powermac_PB | I want to get to the jtag and usb host ports, dang it! |
| 14:09.11 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: once its in my hands, no gurarrante if it survives, hehe |
| 14:09.42 | prpplague | jokes with g1powermac_PB |
| 14:10.10 | prpplague | are their hi-res photo's of the main pcb? |
| 14:10.37 | GPSFan | prpplague: some, none really great ones. |
| 14:11.03 | prpplague | hmm the zipit v2 isn't listed on the main wiki page |
| 14:11.44 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: I'll take some good pics of it once I get it |
| 14:11.47 | GPSFan | prpplague: yeah, 'cause nothing has been done that is worthy of being put up there (yet) |
| 14:11.53 | prpplague | ahh |
| 14:12.02 | g1powermac_PB | heh, I'll even start up a wiki page for it |
| 14:12.14 | GPSFan | g1powermac_PB: good deal |
| 14:12.14 | g1powermac_PB | bbiab, going to work |
| 14:12.15 | prpplague | hmm wonder if tom has some info posted |
| 14:12.53 | GPSFan | prpplague: looks like he just has z1 stuff |
| 14:12.58 | prpplague | yea |
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| 14:27.02 | g1powermac | returns |
| 14:27.04 | g1powermac | did I miss anything? |
| 14:30.15 | prpplague | uh no |
| 14:30.39 | g1powermac | prpplague, yea, I'll take some higher res pics of the zipit, and if you pay for shipping, I'll send the board out to you to get xrayed |
| 14:31.26 | prpplague | g1powermac: i'm totally swampped at the momment, lets talk about it next week |
| 14:31.36 | g1powermac | alright |
| 14:32.00 | g1powermac | I'm still waiting for it to be shipped here :-) |
| 14:37.20 | g1powermac | dang, our color laser copier/printer is out of black toner. . . |
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| 14:40.56 | g1powermac | alright, toner is on the way. . .hopefully will get it in before I get bugged to death about it |
| 14:43.55 | g1powermac | dang it, we're out of bottled water too, time to run to local grocery store. . . |
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| 15:18.08 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: watch the end of "John Adams" ? |
| 15:18.43 | CosmicPenguin | nope - its sitting on my DVR |
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| 15:19.28 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ahh |
| 15:19.39 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: good stuff |
| 15:24.43 | sjhill | prpplague: i want a nail |
| 15:25.08 | prpplague | sjhill: just waiting on the production boards now |
| 15:25.17 | prpplague | sjhill: should be here by the end of the week |
| 15:25.24 | sjhill | cool |
| 15:25.46 | prpplague | sjhill: did you see the linuxdevices.com post then? |
| 15:27.02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: what about you? you see the post? i'm curious what you thought of it , coming from a x86 background |
| 15:27.53 | CosmicPenguin | erm? |
| 15:31.35 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6679724842.html |
| 15:37.12 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: nice - congrats |
| 15:57.03 | SpeedEvil | The NOR flash does make it harder to brick - but I can do it! |
| 15:57.04 | sjhill | prpplague: cool, congratulations also |
| 15:57.06 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 15:57.37 | sjhill | prpplague: now, that price is discounted for buildroot, uClibc, and kernel maintainers, right? :P |
| 15:58.24 | chouimat|work | sjhill: hehe |
| 15:59.13 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: how can you brick it? |
| 15:59.28 | CosmicPenguin | quickly sends a uclibc patch so he can get the tripple discount |
| 15:59.33 | prpplague | sjhill / CosmicPenguin thanks |
| 15:59.41 | prpplague | hehe |
| 15:59.54 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: 10^7 writes to the bootsector |
| 16:00.18 | prpplague | sjhill / CosmicPenguin did the article sound clear about what the nail was for and can do? |
| 16:00.19 | chouimat|work | looks at the latest kernel patch from the oem and cries |
| 16:00.22 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: ahh indeed |
| 16:00.45 | prpplague | makes a note to setup a chain booting |
| 16:02.00 | SpeedEvil | wonders what the actual breakdown curve of NOR and NAND looks like. |
| 16:05.32 | CosmicPenguin | The article is pretty clear that its just for giggles |
| 16:05.36 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: i've killed a few dev boards with NOR flash |
| 16:06.07 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: oh? |
| 16:07.10 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: do tell |
| 16:07.40 | CosmicPenguin | Is it not a hobbyist board? |
| 16:07.53 | prpplague | wonders when the CELF sessions will be posted |
| 16:08.13 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: developers in general |
| 16:08.32 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you get the impression that its for hobbists only? |
| 16:08.57 | CosmicPenguin | I don't get the impression that its for OEMs if thats what you mean |
| 16:09.34 | prpplague | yea, i wouldn't not expect and OEM to repackage it in a case or something like that |
| 16:10.23 | prpplague | more of a way for people to experiment with smart dongle designs |
| 16:10.33 | CosmicPenguin | yeah - so for funsies.. :) |
| 16:11.07 | chouimat|work | funsies? |
| 16:11.16 | prpplague | hmm, i wouldn't say it's without business applications |
| 16:11.48 | prpplague | chouimat|work: slang for "having fun" |
| 16:12.07 | chouimat|work | i see |
| 16:12.14 | chouimat|work | ok /me bbl food |
| 16:12.22 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: as most of the nail board inquires so far are from embedded linux vendors |
| 16:12.42 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: but i do see your point |
| 16:12.54 | CosmicPenguin | its a refreshing position to have |
| 16:13.01 | CosmicPenguin | go for the general purpose hacking first, then get the business |
| 16:13.04 | CosmicPenguin | not the other way around |
| 16:13.08 | CosmicPenguin | which is what we do |
| 16:13.11 | SpeedEvil | wishes the hammer came in QFN36. |
| 16:13.30 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: hehe |
| 16:13.56 | SpeedEvil | is currently doing annoying coding for 20K RAM. |
| 16:14.17 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: we have a more compact version of the nail , but it lacks all of the hardware hacking/experimenting features |
| 16:15.11 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: 2.5L x 1 W x 1 H |
| 16:15.36 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: bascially a slightly oversize thumb drive |
| 16:20.26 | prpplague | lordy lordy |
| 16:20.35 | prpplague | i love some of the mailing list posts "Hello community, I'm using a board based on ARM9 microcontroller. Is there anyone knows about installing uclinux on it? If so,how can I do this?" |
| 16:21.19 | prpplague | man i wish i could have gone to CELF |
| 16:21.31 | prpplague | there were a ton a sessions i would i have liked to have attended |
| 16:22.43 | solar | yeah. I liked the JATG one by the IBM guy. Sat in on both of landleys talks. And got sucked into being on a panel about embedded distros |
| 16:23.50 | prpplague | solar: yea, i do debugging via JTAG all the time, but i would have liked to have seen what he was presenting, always room for more tips and tricks |
| 16:24.16 | solar | it was filmed. But it may take a while for it to show up on the site |
| 16:24.28 | prpplague | yea thats what i was about to type |
| 16:25.07 | prpplague | solar: would have been a good marketing deal if the presenter could have handed out nail boards for the presentation, hehe |
| 16:25.46 | solar | why indeed. But it seemed most of the ppl that were there, were there for thier respective companies. |
| 16:26.37 | solar | lots of side work for private contractors if one does that sort of thing |
| 16:26.41 | prpplague | yea, just trying to get some coverage and people talking about it |
| 16:27.07 | solar | PR for the nail? |
| 16:27.21 | prpplague | solar: hehe yea, i figured landley probably got some leads on some work |
| 16:27.26 | prpplague | solar: yea pr for the nail board |
| 16:28.52 | solar | Not sure if tincan can do it or not. But gentoo has gotten donations of misc freescale/genesi boards before. think ~10x or so. Then those were given to the respective developers that wanted to work on interesting projects that freescale/genesi device. |
| 16:29.43 | solar | it did two things. Build a small community that has existing policies of pushing patches back upstream. And ensured that a large number of package and unique setups were tested. |
| 16:29.57 | solar | Not sure if any drivers resulted from that |
| 16:30.05 | prpplague | solar: yea we have aloted a number of boards for community donations |
| 16:30.28 | prpplague | solar: you guys are already on the list for all the new board beta's |
| 16:30.40 | solar | freescale/genesi did the same thing with a few other distros as well. |
| 16:31.05 | solar | OE is probably a good one to target from tincans prespective |
| 16:32.05 | prpplague | solar: yea, i've not had the best of luck with OE, not sure who'd i give some to |
| 16:33.52 | solar | I have not either. But I looks to them for misc patches/* that we can barrow. I also respect them more than most others cuz they are focused on cheap embeeded comsumer devices and are sourced based. |
| 16:35.40 | prpplague | solar: indeed |
| 16:35.54 | prpplague | heads out for lunch |
| 16:35.55 | prpplague | bbiab |
| 16:41.43 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague and OE have a long and twisted history |
| 16:42.16 | CosmicPenguin | Which is ironic, because most of the original OE braintrust came from this chat room and its ancestor - we all used to hack on silly Itsy related devices in the late 90s |
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| 17:09.45 | Dr{Who} | prpplague.. i did not find any place in the kernel where GPH register is initialized. in apex for the 2410 in serial.c it is setup to turn RXD2 and TXD2 to rts / cts. |
| 17:10.04 | Dr{Who} | so i was thinking this should be set in the kernel? not the boot loader.. |
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| 17:19.15 | prpplague | returns from lunch |
| 17:19.38 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: indeed that is ironic |
| 17:26.26 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: i'm still not sure what it is you want to do |
| 17:34.26 | Dr{Who} | sorry was afk. |
| 17:34.52 | Dr{Who} | im connecting txd2 and rxd2 to my pc so i can use it as a second serial port. |
| 17:35.30 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: ahh using the hammer board carrier? |
| 17:35.49 | Dr{Who} | yes |
| 17:36.25 | Dr{Who} | i already wired up a connector for j6 |
| 17:38.19 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: http://www.pastebin.ca/992182 |
| 17:38.29 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: have a look at what i've added |
| 17:38.48 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: that goes in arch/arm/mach-s3c2410/mach-tct_hammer.c |
| 17:39.08 | Dr{Who} | ok let me look at what i added to my tch_hammer_init and see if its the same. |
| 17:40.11 | Dr{Who} | http://www.pastebin.ca/992184 |
| 17:40.39 | Dr{Who} | hmm gph2? |
| 17:40.43 | Dr{Who} | i set gph 6 and 7 |
| 17:41.26 | prpplague | my bad i grabbed the txd/rxd for uart 0 |
| 17:41.35 | Dr{Who} | ok good to see the pullup is needed.. that seemed odd to me. a line that internally can be known as a serial port.. but you have to set the pullup.. |
| 17:42.12 | Dr{Who} | i also did this but i dont think its correct s3c2410_gpio_setpin(S3C2410_GPH6, 1); |
| 17:42.24 | Dr{Who} | setting the current value is what i presume that register does. |
| 17:42.34 | Dr{Who} | so set it HIGH but its a pullup already. |
| 17:42.40 | prpplague | pullup with a value of 1 is disabled |
| 17:42.48 | Dr{Who} | ahh. |
| 17:42.54 | Dr{Who} | good to know. |
| 17:43.15 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: there is no need to do the setpin |
| 17:43.39 | Dr{Who} | k. didnt think so.. was just trying stuff on that one.. |
| 17:43.41 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: once the port is configured for uart operations, the setpin function for that i/o is no longer connected |
| 17:43.50 | Dr{Who} | got it. |
| 17:44.16 | Dr{Who} | ok im going to recompile.. and see whats what.. |
| 17:44.21 | prpplague | okie dokie |
| 17:44.46 | Dr{Who} | thanks for the clerification. |
| 17:45.50 | prpplague | np, i should go ahead and add that in the main tree |
| 17:48.30 | Dr{Who} | is the code in apex in your own patching? or is it part of the main cvs trunk? |
| 17:49.08 | Dr{Who} | i would think about having that changed to just setting up 1 port and dont touch the other pins? |
| 17:49.38 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 17:51.06 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: the vast majority of hammer support is in the main cvs trunk for apex, however there are some specific bits that are part of the included patch |
| 17:51.31 | Dr{Who} | also i dont know if robot relayed this to you yet but i found a typo on hammer_carrier revc |
| 17:52.05 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: on the schematic or actually on the board? |
| 17:52.15 | Dr{Who} | skematics.. didnt look at the board. |
| 17:52.32 | Dr{Who} | pin 14,15 both say they are GPH7 |
| 17:54.06 | prpplague | ahh indeed |
| 17:54.13 | prpplague | sends an email to the boss |
| 17:59.11 | prpplague | okie dokie time for smoke test |
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| 18:13.08 | Mirell | lights one up |
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| 18:33.26 | prpplague | okie dokie time for smoke test #2 |
| 18:34.19 | ds2 | hmmm |
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| 18:41.23 | ds2 | besides the OMAPs, what other current ARM's support variable voltage operations for different clock rates? |
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| 18:49.38 | prpplague | okie dokie time for smoke test #3 |
| 18:52.28 | gandhijee | i know the IXP's from intel did |
| 18:52.42 | gandhijee | the PXA probably does as well |
| 18:54.03 | ds2 | prpplague: what are you smoking? |
| 18:54.18 | ds2 | gandhijee: I thought the Xscales had a fixed 1.8V core? |
| 18:54.32 | gandhijee | the 465 next to me doesn |
| 18:54.33 | gandhijee | t |
| 18:55.04 | gandhijee | one jumper pulls down V-core |
| 18:55.14 | gandhijee | lemme pull up our schematics for the board |
| 18:55.16 | prpplague | ds2: testing mating conditions between an i/o board and the main cpu board |
| 18:56.57 | *** join/#edev ico2_ (n=ico2@modem-1376.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 18:58.32 | *** join/#edev ce_geek (n=ce_geek@roger-blanchette-4.umelst.maine.edu) |
| 18:58.46 | ce_geek | is all defended and ready to finish his semester |
| 18:59.01 | ce_geek | prpplague: All done! Now all I have to do is become an expert about the hammer board! |
| 18:59.04 | Crofton | congrrats! |
| 18:59.09 | ce_geek | Thanks! |
| 18:59.48 | ce_geek | Six years.... it's time to leave. I've had enough academia. |
| 19:00.07 | Crofton | heh |
| 19:00.07 | Crofton | yeah |
| 19:00.07 | prpplague | ce_geek: congrads!!! |
| 19:00.16 | ce_geek | prpplague: Thanks! |
| 19:00.24 | prpplague | ce_geek: now you can get an entry level job and start your _real_ education, hehe |
| 19:00.30 | prpplague | jokes with ce_geek |
| 19:00.35 | ce_geek | prpplague: I agree completely, actually. |
| 19:00.39 | ds2 | gandhijee: hmmm interesting so this isn't all that new. The reason I asked is at ESC, a guy from Atmel had a talk on power optimization and they mentioned that as one of the tricks; AFAIK, the Linux capable Atmel's are fixed voltage |
| 19:02.07 | gandhijee | maybe they are shutting down parts of it so it doesn't draw as much current |
| 19:02.18 | gandhijee | /power |
| 19:03.44 | gandhijee | fuck, asus is retarded as hell |
| 19:05.08 | prpplague | gandhijee: just a warning, please do not use that kind of language here |
| 19:05.09 | ds2 | shutting down part is an older trick; lowering voltage as you lower clocks seems to be a new trick that I have only seen on the OMAPs |
| 19:06.21 | gandhijee | whoops sorry, wrong window, sorry prpplague |
| 19:06.29 | Crofton | rofl |
| 19:09.58 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: Please watch your language here. |
| 19:10.48 | RobotGuy | puts up a new website - www.breakingthings.com |
| 19:11.32 | gandhijee | is RobotGuy prpplague's echo or something? |
| 19:11.53 | gandhijee | just 2 weeks ago he was raising heck about some robot or something he was tryin to build |
| 19:11.54 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: No, sorry. Didn't see prpplague's response |
| 19:13.03 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: I design and build custom robots. |
| 19:13.37 | gandhijee | O |
| 19:14.06 | Dr{Who} | prpplague.. can you think of any reason why the baud rate or chip rate out of the hammer would not match the rate from my host linux system? both are set to 9600 in linux using setserial but the hammer is off by about 100% |
| 19:14.13 | gandhijee | samsung is shopping around for someone to design them a controller board for a robot |
| 19:14.55 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: you should never use setserial to set baud rate unless you have a specifically supported uart that you need to use setserial for |
| 19:15.04 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: to set baud rates please use stty |
| 19:15.10 | Dr{Who} | k |
| 19:15.13 | Dr{Who} | i will try that. |
| 19:19.49 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: Interesting.. TinCanTools just started development of the Hammer-RDP. |
| 19:20.15 | gandhijee | they were looking for something with a lot more power |
| 19:20.57 | gandhijee | they asked us for a quote for a Intel Core 2 Extreme in a PC/104 form factor |
| 19:21.12 | Dr{Who} | hmm thats odd using stty on the host and the hammer i end up with a different baud again. but even worse. |
| 19:21.30 | SpeedEvil | gandhijee: gun |
| 19:21.34 | SpeedEvil | s/g/f/ |
| 19:21.42 | SpeedEvil | sighs. |
| 19:21.42 | gandhijee | gun? |
| 19:21.51 | gandhijee | fun maybe? |
| 19:21.52 | ds2 | Dr{Who}: did you reboot/power cycle after the setserial experiments? |
| 19:21.56 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 19:22.10 | Dr{Who} | no.. let me do that.. |
| 19:22.33 | ds2 | setserial messes up the divider calculations |
| 19:22.45 | Dr{Who} | lovely. i did not know that.. |
| 19:23.01 | Dr{Who} | i normaly use minicom and let it set my serial on host/client |
| 19:23.12 | Dr{Who} | but i dont have minicom built for the hammer.. |
| 19:23.27 | Dr{Who} | i hope i dont have to reboot my host? |
| 19:23.31 | ds2 | setserial started as a way to map odd ball UARTs/baudrates to "standard" ones as the traditional termios interface has discrete definites for the baudrate |
| 19:23.39 | RobotGuy | Put an s3c2440 or s3c6400 on it and Samsung would probably take notice of it. |
| 19:23.49 | ds2 | if you use setserial, that might be a good idea but you can saity check it with another device |
| 19:24.08 | Dr{Who} | k. i can run minicom on host it seems..... to reset things well. |
| 19:24.35 | ds2 | that might not fix it as minicom and stock apps don't always know about the divisor stuff |
| 19:24.46 | ds2 | find another board and see if minicom can talk to it |
| 19:24.51 | ds2 | or a real vt100 ;) |
| 19:24.57 | Dr{Who} | ya i can use loopback |
| 19:25.03 | prpplague | RobotGuy: on what? |
| 19:25.04 | ds2 | no, loopback won't help |
| 19:25.19 | Dr{Who} | hmm ok so has to be a seperate host.. i understand.. |
| 19:25.21 | ds2 | loopback uses the same clock for receive and transmit so the problem will never appear |
| 19:25.24 | Dr{Who} | ya. |
| 19:25.25 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: If they want a robotics board, they are looking in the wrong direction if they want to attract the hobby robotics folks. |
| 19:25.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: On a robotics board Samsung might take note of. |
| 19:26.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: samsung doesn't take note of anything less than 100k units |
| 19:26.20 | Dr{Who} | ya it didnt reset it it .. but minicom fixed it. |
| 19:26.29 | gandhijee | RobotGuy: i don't think it was for hobbyist with the specs they asked for...... more like a compititor to asimo or whatever the honda one is called. |
| 19:26.53 | ds2 | hmm I wonder if the new ioctls also does a clean up or maybe it just ignores the traditional settings |
| 19:27.10 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: That's fine then. TinCanTools can handle the hobbiest robotics folks just fine. :D |
| 19:27.41 | Dr{Who} | ya i dont think the baud is correct on the hammer. i will run some calculations with my scope and determin the actual bauds |
| 19:27.44 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: Of course, we hobbiests are getting quite advanced. It pays to look at what we are doing. |
| 19:27.54 | ds2 | heh |
| 19:29.22 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: I'm just a rank newbie compared to a lot who would still be considered hobbiests in robotics. |
| 19:30.04 | ds2 | RobotGuy: what would you consider to be a robot? |
| 19:30.26 | SpeedEvil | ED209B! |
| 19:31.08 | RobotGuy | ds2: A fully autonomous unit able to move around in the environment, and react to and interact with it. No human controlling it whatsoever. |
| 19:31.41 | ds2 | RobotGuy: so with your definition, the automated assembly of cars in a factory is not a robot? |
| 19:32.12 | RobotGuy | ds2: That's preprogrammed repeated motion, nothing more. |
| 19:32.35 | ds2 | hmmm I see. |
| 19:32.50 | RobotGuy | ds2: Those robots can not move around their environment, at least as far as I know. |
| 19:33.13 | RobotGuy | I hesitate to even call them robots. |
| 19:33.34 | gandhijee | yet they are still defined to be robots |
| 19:33.49 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: Who makes that definition? |
| 19:34.20 | gandhijee | back in the day people that did a mindless repetitive task were often called robots |
| 19:34.39 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: That doesn't make the reference correct though. |
| 19:35.11 | gandhijee | http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/robot |
| 19:35.25 | gandhijee | a person who acts and responds in a mechanical, routine manner, usually subject to another's will; automaton. |
| 19:36.08 | ds2 | RobotGuy: well, the are just arms and can move to an extent |
| 19:36.11 | gandhijee | last part, sorry about the C-n-P |
| 19:36.14 | gandhijee | robot itself comes from Czech robota, "servitude, forced labor," from rab, "slave." |
| 19:36.23 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: That also doesn't make the reference correct. True robots are autonomous. |
| 19:36.34 | gandhijee | why do you say that |
| 19:36.45 | ds2 | so by your definition, is a roomba a robot then? |
| 19:37.01 | gandhijee | roomba are, they are just dumb robots |
| 19:37.06 | ds2 | it is autonomous and moves around. lights flash and makes noises |
| 19:37.36 | RobotGuy | ds2: It does act on it's own without human intervention. I'd say roomba is a robot, albeit a very low level kind of robot. |
| 19:38.07 | RobotGuy | ds2: i-Create is a robot based on the roomba design. |
| 19:38.36 | RobotGuy | ds2: If you refer to the manufacturing arms, those are fixed in place. |
| 19:39.01 | ds2 | so talking that back to the factory automation - if the "robot" is smart enough to find the raw material and determine its orientation automatically, does that count? |
| 19:40.46 | SpeedEvil | Also - no human control implies that it's taken over the world. |
| 19:40.49 | SpeedEvil | Which is bad. |
| 19:40.55 | RobotGuy | ds2: No, I don't think so. However, it depends on how much effort is required to find the materials. Most manufacturing sites I have watched have the materials transported on assembly lines where it can be picked off as needed. |
| 19:41.23 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Not at all. There is no implication of world take over there, |
| 19:41.50 | SpeedEvil | If it is not controlled by humans, it must be out of human control. By definition. |
| 19:41.54 | RobotGuy | ds2: Does the arm have to search to find the materials it needs for a process? |
| 19:42.18 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: You are really reaching there.. :P |
| 19:42.48 | SpeedEvil | You need to define what you mean by control. |
| 19:42.53 | ds2 | RobotGuy: yes it does have to "search" |
| 19:43.00 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I think I already did. |
| 19:43.10 | SpeedEvil | On the strictest definition, you're mandating that it has to be full AI. |
| 19:43.20 | RobotGuy | ds2: I mean, does the arm have to move about to find the materials? |
| 19:43.34 | SpeedEvil | Otherwise it's controlled completely by the programmer. |
| 19:43.41 | ds2 | RobotGuy: that gets gray... it would 'pivot' and move on rails |
| 19:43.51 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Full AI can be at many different levels, very simple to extremely complex. |
| 19:44.24 | RobotGuy | ds2: Does the arm control its movement on rails? |
| 19:44.34 | ds2 | sure |
| 19:44.58 | RobotGuy | ds2: OK, then I would have to grant it a certain level of autonomy and call it a robot. |
| 19:45.16 | ds2 | hmmm |
| 19:46.53 | RobotGuy | Now, take an autonomous robot you can set down in any given environment, let it move around on its own, interact with the environment and react to it in a reasonable fashion.. |
| 19:47.23 | ohsix | yes but does it beatbox on every surface |
| 19:47.29 | SpeedEvil | An automated hopping mine, for example. |
| 19:47.33 | ds2 | I suspect by your definition of a robot, most of those battle bots don't qualify either |
| 19:47.59 | RobotGuy | ds2: If it's manually controlled (R/C or otherwise) I do not call it a robot. |
| 19:48.32 | ds2 | RobotGuy: they are; and I think the rules called for it to be teathered |
| 19:48.34 | gandhijee | RobotGuy: then by your def above the robotic arms in the factory are in fact robots |
| 19:48.52 | RobotGuy | ds2: That's two marks against them as robots then. |
| 19:48.56 | gandhijee | cept its like a baby that has had boundaries placed around it |
| 19:49.05 | gandhijee | <RobotGuy> Now, take an autonomous robot you can set down in any given environment, let it move around on its own, interact with the environment and react to it in a reasonable fashion.. |
| 19:49.16 | ds2 | but that's more of a safety thing when you have this little critter running around with things like a chain saw ! |
| 19:49.20 | gandhijee | the robotic arm in the factory has been bolted down |
| 19:49.41 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: If they perform as ds2 and I have been discussing, then yes, they would be robots, even though rather simplistic being limited to a single envronment that can be very well defined. |
| 19:49.56 | gandhijee | and any given environment would require Full blown AI |
| 19:50.08 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: I don't call that a robot if it has no movement of its own. |
| 19:50.17 | gandhijee | it does have movement of its own |
| 19:50.25 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: Again, "full blown AI" comes a many different levels. |
| 19:50.33 | ds2 | take a CMM (Coordinate Measuring Machine) used for inspection... it pretty much figures out where the part is (within a window), moves the probe around and measures things |
| 19:50.53 | gandhijee | for what you want for "any given envo" requires at least dog/cat/animal level processing power |
| 19:51.04 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: I disagree |
| 19:51.23 | SpeedEvil | gandhijee: not for a bot that simply shoots anything that moves. |
| 19:51.26 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: One only has to look at a successful RoboMagellan robot to see this. |
| 19:51.38 | gandhijee | i'm goin on robotguys def |
| 19:51.51 | gandhijee | there are pre defined evo's (mars rover) |
| 19:52.03 | gandhijee | and any given envo (god knows whats going on) |
| 19:52.38 | gandhijee | any given envo in my mind means any thing can happen and it would have to process the any given even then make its choice |
| 19:52.50 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: Even the Mars Rover takes orders from Earth. However, it also has autonomous control when it is executing those orders. It HAS to be able to run autonomously. |
| 19:53.01 | gandhijee | in the mars rover case they had a decent def of the envo |
| 19:53.12 | gandhijee | so they could make it op autonomously |
| 19:53.15 | SpeedEvil | And in the robomagellan. |
| 19:53.25 | SpeedEvil | It was a very constrained environment. |
| 19:53.28 | SpeedEvil | In some ways. |
| 19:53.42 | RobotGuy | Check this out: http://www.robogames.net/rules/magellan.shtml |
| 19:54.04 | SpeedEvil | You're looking at maybe ant-like smarts. |
| 19:54.08 | gandhijee | but the point is the evno was predefined, and conditions known, if a round about way of speaking |
| 19:54.09 | SpeedEvil | At best. |
| 19:54.20 | SpeedEvil | (for the robomagellan) |
| 19:55.02 | gandhijee | those seem like cracked-up roomba's |
| 19:55.08 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: The contest is changing now though, and there is a level of competition that is much more difficult, requiring much more autonomy, sensor integration, etc. |
| 19:55.15 | Dr{Who} | dam.. the hammer is perfect exactly 9600 so my host pc is confused. |
| 19:55.23 | Dr{Who} | does not want to reboot.. |
| 19:55.36 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: Oh no, the RoboMagellan robots are much more involved. |
| 19:55.48 | gandhijee | Dr{Who}: you using a USB->serial or std serial? |
| 19:55.56 | Dr{Who} | onboard serial |
| 19:56.02 | Dr{Who} | in my m7700 laptop |
| 19:56.46 | gandhijee | you know what superIO that thing is using? |
| 19:56.48 | Dr{Who} | minicom didnt seem to correct it. |
| 19:56.49 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: What is ant-like smarts? |
| 19:56.59 | Dr{Who} | its a via chipset as i recall. |
| 19:57.21 | RobotGuy | looks for an ant to give an IQ test to. ;) |
| 19:57.31 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: as intelligent as an ant. |
| 19:57.33 | gandhijee | dell laptop? |
| 19:57.43 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: How intelligent is an ant? |
| 19:57.54 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: slightly more than a flyback. |
| 19:57.57 | Dr{Who} | alienware :P i got it before they took over.. damit.. |
| 19:57.58 | gandhijee | does it nav through the course using sensor data and GPS data? |
| 19:58.05 | Dr{Who} | i didnt buy a dell : P |
| 19:58.09 | gandhijee | rofl |
| 19:58.15 | gandhijee | try to find superiotool |
| 19:58.17 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: RoboMagellan robots do. |
| 19:58.39 | CosmicPenguin | RoboMagellan sounds like a term out of Futurama |
| 19:58.44 | gandhijee | rofl |
| 19:59.02 | RobotGuy | CosmicPenguin: I don't know where they got that from. |
| 19:59.13 | Dr{Who} | k ill grab it and build it. |
| 20:00.59 | gandhijee | Dr{Who}: if it makes you feel better i RMA's my AMD board to ASUS and got an Intel board back instead |
| 20:03.44 | Dr{Who} | wow. |
| 20:04.08 | gandhijee | pretty much, AM2 to LGA775 |
| 20:04.49 | Dr{Who} | thats just wow.. its like ya sure your cpu you had will work .. just push harder... it will fit. |
| 20:08.14 | Dr{Who} | grr no dump support for PC8739x |
| 20:13.52 | RobotGuy | GPSFan: ping |
| 20:18.25 | gandhijee | yeah |
| 20:18.37 | gandhijee | pretty much |
| 20:19.12 | gandhijee | Dr{Who} if you grep you dmesg does it say that ttyS0 is a 16650A or 8850A? |
| 20:19.21 | gandhijee | if it does you can use setserial on it |
| 20:21.14 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: If you are interested, you can see my main robot at www.thedynaplex.org/robotics/rovers/walter - there are some more recent pictures but I have not posted them yet. |
| 20:21.41 | gandhijee | i wish i didn't have to work |
| 20:21.59 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: I don't, but wish I could a lot of times. |
| 20:22.15 | gandhijee | you don't work? |
| 20:22.22 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: No |
| 20:22.29 | gandhijee | snap! |
| 20:22.35 | gandhijee | wanna trade lives with me? |
| 20:22.50 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: Nope. |
| 20:23.01 | gandhijee | trade you my job for doing nothing |
| 20:23.07 | gandhijee | it will be sweet |
| 20:23.15 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: You would not enjoy the consequences. |
| 20:23.43 | gandhijee | has to be better than dealing with these fools in TW |
| 20:23.47 | RobotGuy | prpplague: ping |
| 20:24.33 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: What kind of work do you do? |
| 20:24.44 | gandhijee | job title is systems engineer |
| 20:25.10 | gandhijee | but i work at a small company so i am the sys admin/net admin too |
| 20:25.11 | RobotGuy | gandhijee: I give myself whatever title will help me get what I want/need. |
| 20:25.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ping |
| 20:25.30 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Check PM |
| 20:25.30 | gandhijee | pong |
| 20:25.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: probably on wed. or thursday |
| 20:26.06 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK. -sigh- |
| 20:27.27 | Dr{Who} | 16550A |
| 20:30.21 | RobotGuy | I figured out that I can get almost 32 3-pin headers on the carrier board with my compass and Bluetooth modules AND a dual battery power supply. I can stuff two 38-pin sockets on there too - one under the BT module and one under the compass. |
| 20:30.41 | RobotGuy | 5V and 3.3V regulators too. |
| 20:33.24 | RobotGuy | It's going to be quite a job wiring it all up though. |
| 20:34.50 | RobotGuy | prpplague: What do you use to strip #30 wire? |
| 20:35.05 | gandhijee | Dr{Who}: what speed is setserial saying it is? |
| 20:35.27 | gandhijee | bump it up to the max, then just try to echo some chars to it from the hammer board |
| 20:36.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: standard wire stripped |
| 20:36.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK. I just don't have anything that goes that small. |
| 20:36.57 | prpplague | Dr{Who}: you still having trouble with your serial port setup? |
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| 20:39.12 | gandhijee | prpplague: yeah he is, he said the hammer board was OK, it his laptop thats being goofy |
| 20:39.50 | prpplague | ahh ok |
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| 21:02.53 | prpplague | ce_geek: ping |
| 21:17.26 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Note for future revisions of the Hammer Carrier Board: Please consider adding in the socket headers next to the hammer and SD/MMC slot. |
| 21:17.41 | RobotGuy | I added socket headers to make it breadboard friendly. |
| 21:22.18 | prpplague | RobotGuy: not sure i understand your comment |
| 21:23.13 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I added socket headers to the pin rows next to the Hammer socket and SD/MMC socket. I can easily jumper from those to my huge solderless breadboard. |
| 21:23.32 | ds2 | Dr{Who} - what setserial commands did you run? |
| 21:23.54 | RobotGuy | Do we access /dev/ttySAC2 for the second serial port? |
| 21:24.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ok, so what is it you are asking TCT to do on the next version of the carrier board? |
| 21:24.11 | ds2 | SAC2? I'd guess SAC1 |
| 21:24.21 | prpplague | SAC2 |
| 21:24.32 | ds2 | prpplague: what happened to SAC1? |
| 21:24.37 | prpplague | its actually Uart0 and Uart2 |
| 21:24.45 | prpplague | ds2: uart1 is unconnected |
| 21:24.45 | ds2 | oh |
| 21:25.05 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Add the socket headers in those locations for breadboard friendliness. It will be wonderful for prototyping circuits without having to solder anything to the proto area. |
| 21:25.18 | prpplague | we decided to use uart2 instead of uart1 because uart2 supports irda and uart1 does not |
| 21:25.32 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I wish all three serial ports were available. |
| 21:25.45 | ds2 | oh nonsymetrical uarts |
| 21:25.46 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what if the person wants to solder to those thru hole places? or add male headers |
| 21:26.31 | ds2 | I really think you guys should sell a SMTable version - basically same thing but with just pads, no pins |
| 21:26.52 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Well, I don't really know. I personally wouldn't want to do that so close to the Hammer but one time - which was to add the socket headers. Maybe it's just a me thing. |
| 21:27.16 | prpplague | i've got maile headers on the bottom of mine so i can stack another board |
| 21:27.30 | RobotGuy | ds2: I would love to have an s3c2440 board with access to all those cool pins and functions. |
| 21:27.37 | prpplague | RobotGuy: its alot easier to solder on what you want than take off what you don't |
| 21:27.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Hmmm, that makes sense too. I could stack on top. :) |
| 21:27.53 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Good point. |
| 21:28.11 | prpplague | ds2: problem with that is that it doesn't match with our target audience |
| 21:28.35 | prpplague | ds2: SMD style isn't what most hobbists are used to dealing with |
| 21:29.05 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Oh, please do keep with the .1" spacing pins! |
| 21:29.19 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That is what makes Hammer so cool and easy to use. |
| 21:29.50 | ds2 | prpplague: I am not sure if I completely agree with that. wide spaced SMT is not really that different from through hole |
| 21:30.19 | RobotGuy | ds2: For you perhaps, but I much prefer the 0.1" spacing for soldering. |
| 21:30.32 | ds2 | RobotGuy: eh? that's what I said |
| 21:30.37 | prpplague | there is no reason you couldn't solder the hammer directly to a proto pcb and do away with the socket |
| 21:30.39 | ds2 | wide space as in 0.1 SMT |
| 21:30.41 | RobotGuy | ds2: I would probably not be able to use Hammer if this were not the case. |
| 21:31.04 | RobotGuy | ds2: Oh, OK, I didn't understand the spacing would be the same, but still, I am not sure. |
| 21:31.14 | ds2 | keep the pitch very course (100 mil), just do away with the pins |
| 21:31.15 | RobotGuy | ds2: I would have to try something like that to be sure. |
| 21:31.34 | RobotGuy | ds2: I like something I can stuff directly into my solderless breadboard. |
| 21:31.48 | ds2 | makes it easier for home fab'ing of boards... drilling holes with imperfect drill presses suck |
| 21:32.03 | RobotGuy | ds2: I can even handle a SledgeHammer with single rows of pins (80 each side) on my breadboard. |
| 21:32.07 | ds2 | RobotGuy: those solderless breadboards are pretty useless at any decent frequency |
| 21:32.08 | prpplague | ds2: you can drop the z for the hammer from .45 to .25 just by removing the socket |
| 21:32.37 | prpplague | ds2: what do you qualify as decent frequency? |
| 21:32.48 | ds2 | prpplague: 10-20MHz |
| 21:32.57 | ds2 | i.e. a fast SPI bus |
| 21:33.01 | prpplague | ds2: you find so? |
| 21:33.02 | RobotGuy | ds2: You should check the specs on my breadboard: http://www.globalspecialties.com/pb105.html |
| 21:33.12 | prpplague | ds2: i've not had problems until 50mhz |
| 21:33.33 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I believe my breadboard could handle those speeds. |
| 21:33.55 | prpplague | max freq on the spi anyway is 25mhz |
| 21:34.32 | RobotGuy | My breadboard is not the usual cheapy thing you would find at Radio Shack. |
| 21:35.40 | RobotGuy | I need a decent oscilliscope (digital or analog) though, because I am getting into stuff like I2C where I need it. |
| 21:36.36 | prpplague | hmm the hammer is fast enough to do some low level logic analyzer |
| 21:37.00 | prpplague | http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8490 |
| 21:37.11 | prpplague | i have a version of that running with touchscreen on the hammer |
| 21:38.09 | adyer | RobotGuy: http://www.totalphase.com/products/beagle_ism/ might be useful |
| 21:38.45 | ds2 | prpplague: I see odd things on my ratshack quality boards at about 10MHz |
| 21:39.08 | ds2 | the only thing I find them good for is quick testing of LEDs and power supplies |
| 21:39.16 | prpplague | ds2: ahh we don't use ratshack stuff, hehe |
| 21:39.26 | ds2 | anything else, it is easier to dead bug on bare copper or a pref board |
| 21:39.36 | KeyserSoze | there are other arm9 development/eval/proto boards with high-density surface mount components |
| 21:39.54 | KeyserSoze | hammer is the only one i've seen with 0.1" DIP, for easy prototyping |
| 21:40.03 | ds2 | if it isn't clear, all I am asking for is parts that do not require holes |
| 21:40.14 | ds2 | by all means keep the current 100mil pitch |
| 21:43.24 | prpplague | ds2: well the hammer would have to be redesigned |
| 21:43.38 | ds2 | prpplague: why's that? |
| 21:43.53 | prpplague | ds2: the hammer has componets on both sides |
| 21:44.00 | ds2 | DOH |
| 21:44.32 | prpplague | ds2: you know you can get smd sockets right? |
| 21:44.45 | ds2 | prpplague: yep |
| 21:49.12 | Dr{Who} | hmmmmm... pho for lunch was good.. |
| 21:49.36 | adyer | Dr{Who}: you are an evil man |
| 21:51.47 | Dr{Who} | : c ) |
| 21:55.36 | gandhijee | Pho rules |
| 21:55.44 | gandhijee | and on that note i'm out |
| 21:56.38 | adyer | got to have an iced coffee too |
| 21:57.17 | adyer | between wanting pho and embedded wifi headaches, I am an unhappy camper |
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| 22:11.18 | g1powermac | prpplague, so how much info can you find out about the zipit when you run it in your xray machine? you'd be able to get the total layout of the pcb? |
| 22:12.58 | prpplague | g1powermac: pretty much |
| 22:13.07 | g1powermac | thats awesome |
| 22:13.44 | g1powermac | then pretty much the entire agreement thing on their wiki would be moot with that kind of info contained from the xray |
| 22:13.50 | g1powermac | well, besides the software stuff |
| 22:16.35 | g1powermac | sigh, I'm still trying to figure out how in the world to just cross-compile qtopia. . . |
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| 22:29.31 | RobotGuy | adyer: That instrument looks interesting, but I need to see wave forms also for timing. |
| 22:31.26 | RobotGuy | Wow, Python friendly too. :) |
| 22:43.03 | SpeedEvil | Surely it's practically impossible to determine layout with (say) 6 overlapping layers? |
| 22:43.13 | SpeedEvil | With components on the top |
| 22:44.42 | SpeedEvil | Unless you could do a CAT scan, which I diddn't think was possible |
| 22:45.06 | adyer | SpeedEvil: it's made in China, right? just find the board house and bribe them for the gerbers :-) |
| 22:45.34 | ali_as | They've been done on thin sections of fossil before, but a board thickness might be really tough. |
| 22:45.55 | ali_as | If he hadn't left I'd have asked some questions like, do the xrays erase the flash.... |
| 22:46.01 | SpeedEvil | they don't |
| 22:46.16 | SpeedEvil | At least - not in a few exposures reportedly. |
| 22:46.33 | SpeedEvil | I would assume source size would be a problem if you were trying CAT |
| 22:47.03 | ali_as | Worth puting a bit of lead foil over any flash chips just in case... |
| 22:47.39 | ali_as | Maybe, but you could just take 2 images from different angles and view them stereoscopically. |
| 22:48.03 | ali_as | That may be enough with just board traces to worry about. |
| 22:49.33 | ali_as | You can get micro focus x ray sources with spot sizes of a few micrometers, so I don't think that need be an issue. |
| 22:50.36 | ali_as | If it's something like a dental x ray might be more tricky. |
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| 23:05.38 | ali_as | prpplague, tell us about the x ray system please! |
| 23:09.46 | Dr{Who} | i miss the xray system at NEC i got to play with.. its one cool system. |
| 23:11.22 | prpplague | ali_as uh what? |
| 23:11.27 | Dr{Who} | the one we had was the size of a normal chip shooter.. I would think they are a lot smaller now. |
| 23:12.28 | ali_as | prpplague, x rays were mentioned in connection with the zipit. |
| 23:12.47 | ali_as | You cannot possibly leave us hanging ;) |
| 23:13.01 | prpplague | ali_as yea our board house has a nice x-ray machine |
| 23:13.11 | ali_as | Dr, was it for silicon wafers or boards? |
| 23:13.13 | prpplague | ali_as i could abuse my privileages there |
| 23:13.57 | Dr{Who} | boards |
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| 23:14.40 | Dr{Who} | same type of setup as a chip shooter as i said. put after smt line |
| 23:14.55 | ali_as | I have no idea what a chip shooter is. |
| 23:15.06 | Dr{Who} | slang.. |
| 23:15.18 | Dr{Who} | a large machine that places chips on a pcb |
| 23:17.33 | Dr{Who} | we do traceability systems so integration with such systems lets us tag boards or parts as bad so in repair the board when scanned would detail the problems. |
| 23:18.16 | ali_as | My only experience of X rays is of doing diffraction with lithium cloride crystals in an undergraduate lab. |
| 23:18.24 | Dr{Who} | most of the stuff we do now uses vision systems they tend to do as good a job and are a lot less expensive. |
| 23:25.09 | MonMotha | does X still have the thing where if you look at the size of the process image, it includes memory from the video card? |
| 23:25.17 | MonMotha | xorg, that is |
| 23:30.27 | Dr{Who} | never heard of that one. |
| 23:31.29 | MonMotha | I know it used to be the case |
| 23:31.36 | MonMotha | I just wasn't sure if that ever got "fixed" or ont |
| 23:32.15 | MonMotha | because if that is no longer the case, then I'd say there almost has to be a leak. My X server's process image size (resident!) is 210MB (virtual is about a gig!) |
| 23:32.28 | SpeedEvil | google xrestop |
| 23:32.35 | SpeedEvil | ->mon |
| 23:34.15 | MonMotha | other than the beasts that are MythTV and Firefox (which collectively are still under 25MB), nothing big |
| 23:34.34 | MonMotha | total is only 30MB for X resources |
| 23:37.18 | adyer | MonMotha: if you have the PID you can look in /proc/$PID/maps and /proc/$PID/smaps |
| 23:41.07 | MonMotha | 081e1000-485fd000 rw-p 081e1000 00:00 0 [heap] |
| 23:41.07 | MonMotha | Size: 1052784 kB |
| 23:41.07 | MonMotha | Rss: 227768 kB |
| 23:41.19 | MonMotha | that's a big heap... |
| 23:41.32 | adyer | MonMotha: heap big heap :-) |
| 23:42.06 | MonMotha | what does "Dirty" mean in this particular contex? |
| 23:42.07 | MonMotha | t |
| 23:43.29 | adyer | MonMotha: I believe dirty in the usual mem management sense (ie written to), but not 100% on that |
| 23:43.56 | MonMotha | yeah, I wasn't sure if there was any other meaning in this context |
| 23:44.24 | MonMotha | so yeah, something is taking up lots of memory |
| 23:45.09 | adyer | MonMotha: you running anything like compiz? |
| 23:45.56 | MonMotha | My window manager is fvwm |
| 23:46.02 | MonMotha | I don't run a DE on top of that |
| 23:46.21 | MonMotha | the only real monsters I run are Firefox and MythTV |
| 23:56.06 | prpplague | wmat wheeeee!!! release done? |
| 23:57.07 | adyer | prpplague: when is any software ever really done? :-) |
| 23:59.19 | ds2 | there are patches around that will identify how many of those pages are dirty instead of just calling it one big dirty blob |
| 23:59.21 | prpplague | adyer never but for wmat he's finished till next cycle - http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS5906068160.html |