| 00:00.24 | Sienna | i would hope (although it may be too much to ask from the idol watchers on the jury) that wierd isn't a conviction, but that evidence or the lack thereof is what makes the case |
| 00:07.23 | jarv | i really loved those trippy pictures from the reiser4 spec |
| 00:08.09 | jarv | http://web.archive.org/web/20070420214855/http://www.namesys.com/v4/v4.html |
| 00:11.00 | SpeedEvil | Also - 'Defense attorney William DuBois cross-examined the witnesses about Nina's extramarital affair with Reiser's former best friend, Sean Sturgeon. (The jury was not allowed to hear testimony that Sturgeon has confessed to killing eight people unrelated to the case, in retaliation for child abuse.' |
| 00:31.28 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_PB (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 00:32.20 | Sienna | wb g1powermac_PB |
| 00:33.55 | g1powermac_PB | thanks |
| 00:37.31 | g1powermac_PB | is enjoying a very tart fruit smoothie :-) |
| 00:39.08 | Sienna | ewww tart :( |
| 00:39.24 | g1powermac_PB | our blendtec makes awesome smoothies |
| 00:40.15 | Sienna | is a sweet girl, not a tart or sour girl |
| 00:40.15 | g1powermac_PB | I love tart stuff, if it burns the back of my throat, I'm good :-) |
| 00:43.00 | Sienna | but...why! doesn;t it hurt to burn your throat! |
| 00:43.40 | g1powermac_PB | true, but I love the flavor |
| 00:44.02 | g1powermac_PB | can actually eat raw cranberries that haven't been sweetened |
| 00:44.03 | Sienna | :roll :P |
| 00:44.23 | g1powermac_PB | now thats some tart stuff |
| 00:45.17 | Sienna | i probably have never had any |
| 00:46.03 | g1powermac_PB | prolly not, they're not easy to find |
| 00:46.27 | g1powermac_PB | found some frozen ones the other day, been putting them in my cereal in the morning :-) |
| 00:46.57 | Sienna | men! |
| 00:47.07 | Sienna | :D |
| 00:47.18 | g1powermac_PB | though whats really good is eating frozen blueberries right out of the bag :-) |
| 00:47.28 | g1powermac_PB | they aren't really tart, just really tasty |
| 00:50.10 | *** join/#edev Appleman1234 (n=Appleman@131.181.47.30) |
| 00:55.45 | *** join/#edev linac (n=lin@222.76.82.48) |
| 01:16.21 | ce_geek | Hmmn.... is it possible to get things to appear in /mnt/flash via the compressed root filesystem on the hammer? |
| 01:16.25 | ce_geek | without using JFFS2? |
| 01:16.46 | SpeedEvil | likes melted raspberries (hot unsugared) on ice-cream. |
| 01:17.07 | Lars_G | hates SpeedEvil |
| 01:19.27 | g1powermac_PB | SpeedEvil: mmm |
| 01:19.49 | Lars_G | I also wouldn't mind a hot blueberry pancake with vanilla ice cream right now |
| 01:20.35 | g1powermac_PB | mmm |
| 01:23.56 | g1powermac_PB | hmm, these are pretty cool when doing breadboarding: http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Catalog.cfm?Nav1=Products&Nav2=Peripheral&Cat=Peripheral |
| 01:26.25 | ce_geek | No ideas about /mnt/flash on the hammer board? |
| 01:29.17 | *** join/#edev adyer (n=adyer@adsl-69-223-13-78.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 01:31.32 | g1powermac_PB | now this is neat: http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?Prod=CMOD&Nav1=Products&Nav2=Programmable |
| 01:31.49 | g1powermac_PB | $18 for a cpld breakout board |
| 02:13.30 | g1powermac_PB | gnight all |
| 02:42.34 | *** join/#edev ohsix (n=ohsix@66.220.111.222) |
| 02:54.54 | *** join/#edev Appleman1234 (n=Appleman@131.181.47.69) |
| 03:10.15 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 04:50.24 | *** join/#edev likewise (n=likewise@82-171-51-231.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 05:00.37 | *** join/#edev harpal (n=harpal@121.246.75.165) |
| 05:59.09 | *** join/#edev steliosk (n=Stelios@athedsl-284036.home.otenet.gr) |
| 06:08.10 | *** join/#edev emil|k (n=emil@i59F62A50.versanet.de) |
| 06:10.58 | *** join/#edev drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07F7EB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:25.10 | *** join/#edev _ccjoe_ (n=ccjoe@75-169-39-184.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 06:26.28 | *** join/#edev DrZimmerman (n=theo@77-56-246-76.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:34.30 | *** join/#edev Appleman1234 (n=Appleman@131.181.47.10) |
| 07:22.12 | Mirell | GTA4GTA4GTA4GTA4 |
| 07:28.59 | *** join/#edev [AD]Turbo (n=turbo@host24-241-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 07:30.05 | [AD]Turbo | yo all |
| 07:40.38 | Mirell | Yo |
| 07:46.11 | ds2 | you got your copy? |
| 08:00.24 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@p57BD2999.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:35.25 | RobotGuy | Greetings |
| 08:45.32 | *** join/#edev KSoze (n=Miles@67.107.206.170.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 08:46.44 | *** join/#edev harpal (n=harpal@121.246.75.165) |
| 09:08.07 | RobotGuy | I know Digi-Key must carry the connectors I want, but I can not find them. |
| 11:05.08 | *** join/#edev mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 11:22.10 | *** join/#edev howtoo (n=howtoo@195.159.62.66) |
| 11:37.21 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_PB (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 11:39.41 | g1powermac_PB | hea ll |
| 11:39.43 | g1powermac_PB | *all |
| 11:44.54 | *** join/#edev GPSFan (n=kenm@12.10.255.246) |
| 11:44.54 | *** mode/#edev [+o GPSFan] by ChanServ |
| 12:04.26 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 12:05.01 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_apl (i=g1powerm@CPE-76-177-156-202.natcky.res.rr.com) |
| 12:06.38 | *** join/#edev steliosk (n=Stelios@85.72.72.197) |
| 12:32.50 | *** join/#edev mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 13:02.22 | *** join/#edev chouimat|work (n=dieu@209.217.106.98) |
| 13:08.13 | *** join/#edev mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 13:17.47 | *** join/#edev sunrunner20 (n=jamesdoe@pool-70-104-23-68.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 13:20.17 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 13:36.40 | *** join/#edev mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 13:39.06 | prpplague | mbuf: greetings |
| 13:39.42 | mbuf | prpplague, howdy! |
| 13:39.53 | mbuf | prpplague, how are things? |
| 13:39.59 | prpplague | good and you? |
| 13:40.05 | mbuf | prpplague, good, good. |
| 13:41.00 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: I got a really close up shot of the suspected jtag area: http://www.flickr.com/photos/77471288@N00/2451227911/sizes/l/in/set-72157604730204854/ |
| 13:41.11 | mbuf | prpplague, what have you been upto these days? |
| 13:41.15 | g1powermac_PB | I also got voltage readings of all the resistors in the area |
| 13:41.29 | g1powermac_PB | will be putting all the info up on the zipit site soon |
| 13:41.35 | prpplague | mbuf: we have a line of development boards we are selling now: http://www.tincantools.com |
| 13:41.45 | mbuf | prpplague, cool |
| 13:42.13 | ce_geek | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:42.32 | prpplague | hehe |
| 13:42.32 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: I also did some testing on the suspected lpc915 chip |
| 13:42.43 | prpplague | ce_geek: little steps can get you along way |
| 13:43.00 | g1powermac_PB | its interesting, when powered off, the resistance between what should be gnd and vcc is almost nothing |
| 13:43.13 | g1powermac_PB | but, when on, they're at the proper voltage levels |
| 13:43.38 | g1powermac_PB | unsure what that means |
| 13:44.32 | ce_geek | prpplague: Yeah, I did one change at a time to the root filesystem. A few steps to get boa to start automagically, etc. |
| 13:45.48 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: Are you using the Gadget Ethernet? |
| 13:46.43 | ce_geek | RobotGuy: No, using my 3Com USB ethernet dongle |
| 13:47.06 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: I'll be back in the WiFi zone in a few days. |
| 13:47.48 | ce_geek | RobotGuy: Cool. |
| 13:49.20 | RobotGuy | I'm trading the router that won't route in for a WiFi-N router. |
| 13:51.26 | RobotGuy | I'm debating whether to get an eval board for the LM3S6965 (Luminary Micro). |
| 13:53.11 | RobotGuy | I still can't find the connectors I need to build a JTAG cable adapter. |
| 13:59.34 | *** join/#edev mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 14:05.30 | SpeedEvil | robbat2|na: Ok - from the start. go to digikey.com click 'go' in the search box without selecting anything. scroll down to Rectangular - Free Hanging, Panel Mount (4,776 items) - click that. |
| 14:05.37 | SpeedEvil | robot: |
| 14:06.19 | SpeedEvil | now - scroll horizontally. Ctrl-click on number of contacts is 6,10,20 |
| 14:06.28 | SpeedEvil | and number of rows 2 |
| 14:06.32 | SpeedEvil | and pitch 0.1" |
| 14:06.56 | SpeedEvil | now go to the bottom, select 'in stock' |
| 14:07.04 | SpeedEvil | then apply filters |
| 14:07.14 | SpeedEvil | at the bottom of the page is 'You have selected 93 items, spanning 4 pages.' |
| 14:07.31 | SpeedEvil | now - pick 'receptacle-socket' under connector type |
| 14:07.37 | SpeedEvil | click apply |
| 14:07.46 | SpeedEvil | and now that's 75 matches |
| 14:07.57 | prpplague | RobotGuy: come on, you telling me you can't find some .1" headers? |
| 14:08.01 | SpeedEvil | most any of these will do |
| 14:08.05 | RobotGuy | I tried all that yesterday and it did not work. |
| 14:08.12 | SpeedEvil | then click 'view page' |
| 14:08.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: where are ordering from? |
| 14:08.43 | SpeedEvil | http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=CSC10G-ND http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=CSC20G-ND http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=A3047-ND |
| 14:08.46 | SpeedEvil | for example |
| 14:08.58 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you should have .1" break aways in your parts bin |
| 14:09.00 | SpeedEvil | lookk at teh little picture to see if it's about right. |
| 14:09.16 | SpeedEvil | Oh - you're looking for headers? Not sockets? |
| 14:09.40 | prpplague | all you need are the .1" pins and headers |
| 14:10.36 | SpeedEvil | category ConnectorsRectangular - Headers, Male Pin |
| 14:10.41 | RobotGuy | I don't need the pins, just the sockets. |
| 14:10.41 | SpeedEvil | select breakaway |
| 14:10.51 | mbuf | prpplague, you make any FPGA-programmable boards? (got disconnected) |
| 14:10.53 | SpeedEvil | and 0.1" |
| 14:10.58 | prpplague | mbuf: sorry no |
| 14:11.02 | mbuf | prpplague, ok |
| 14:11.20 | prpplague | RobotGuy: just get some .1" female socket break aways |
| 14:11.55 | RobotGuy | I do need some .1" dual row breakaway headers and single row too. |
| 14:12.40 | SpeedEvil | robbat2|na: that category I mentioned earlier - leads to http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=WM268100-ND |
| 14:12.44 | prpplague | a small piece of proto board, and 6 wires |
| 14:12.58 | SpeedEvil | job done. |
| 14:13.29 | mbuf | wants to know a good book to refresh hardware, electronics know-how |
| 14:13.42 | SpeedEvil | mbuf: got the art of electronics? |
| 14:13.53 | SpeedEvil | which areas? |
| 14:14.18 | mbuf | SpeedEvil, resistor, capacitor logic, PCBs et. al. |
| 14:14.26 | SpeedEvil | Then that's a good basic. |
| 14:14.51 | SpeedEvil | You're US based? |
| 14:14.54 | SpeedEvil | tries to remember. |
| 14:15.06 | SpeedEvil | oh - I guess india |
| 14:15.24 | SpeedEvil | http://amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h_/203-0567899-4040746?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=the+art+of+electronics&x=0&y=0 |
| 14:15.28 | RobotGuy | OK, got my sockets now. |
| 14:15.36 | SpeedEvil | I know there are editions for .in |
| 14:16.18 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I am not robbat2|na |
| 14:16.26 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: I know |
| 14:16.33 | SpeedEvil | has completion problems. |
| 14:16.45 | RobotGuy | has search problems. |
| 14:20.50 | prpplague | ~quote scoxq.pk |
| 14:20.54 | mbuf | SpeedEvil, can get books in Europe |
| 14:21.09 | SpeedEvil | mb; uyes - the indian edition is cheaper IIRC |
| 14:21.43 | mbuf | SpeedEvil, will find out |
| 14:22.54 | *** join/#edev MothaWork (n=monmotha@mail.forwardengineering.com) |
| 14:38.15 | RobotGuy | Samsung is coming out with an 8GB microSD card middle of the year. |
| 14:41.38 | ce_geek | prpplague: Interesting, once in a while it "burps" (for lack of a better word) and spits something funny out instead of temperature: |
| 14:41.51 | ce_geek | prpplague: Error 24: Failed to initialize system resource |
| 14:42.01 | ce_geek | prpplague: Probably some trash from digitemp or something. |
| 14:43.19 | RobotGuy | I guess I am a bit behind - there are already 16 GB SDHC cards. |
| 14:44.19 | SpeedEvil | microSD |
| 14:46.24 | RobotGuy | 8GB SanDisk Micro SDHC Card $79.95 USD |
| 14:46.57 | RobotGuy | I don't know if they would work with Hammer or Sledge though. |
| 14:47.09 | SpeedEvil | Yes, but only in slow mode. |
| 14:47.17 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it. |
| 14:57.01 | *** join/#edev g1powermac (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 14:58.15 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 14:58.15 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 15:00.49 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: S3C2410A can do SD Memory Card Spec v1.0 / MMC Card Spec v2.11 / SDIO Spec v1.0. Now I have to figure out what all that means. :) |
| 15:01.11 | RobotGuy | I know it can do 4 bit SD though. |
| 15:01.21 | SpeedEvil | It can also do MMC |
| 15:01.30 | RobotGuy | I said that. |
| 15:01.36 | SpeedEvil | the serial protocol, I mean |
| 15:01.41 | RobotGuy | SPI |
| 15:01.42 | SpeedEvil | 1 bit |
| 15:01.45 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 15:02.06 | RobotGuy | Some cards might not support it though - the cheapers ones. |
| 15:12.25 | *** part/#edev adyer (n=adyer@adsl-69-223-13-78.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 15:15.37 | prpplague | ce_geek: hmm, sounds like possibly noise on the line |
| 15:16.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what is it you are trying to do with sd/mmc ? |
| 15:16.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Nothing (yet) because I don't have an SD/MMC card. |
| 15:17.23 | RobotGuy | prpplague: However, I am considering whether SD/MMC could replace my Thumb Drive. |
| 15:17.26 | prpplague | RobotGuy: just a reminder, the hammer doesn't bring out the sdio controller |
| 15:17.37 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I know. |
| 15:18.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you can use the spi interface for sd/mmc but the performance isn't going to be where you'd want it to be for a rootfs |
| 15:18.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That's what I thought. |
| 15:19.30 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I'll have to wait for Sledge for the full SD/MMC card interface. |
| 15:19.37 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you'd get better operations by bitbanging a 8-bit nand flash |
| 15:20.31 | RobotGuy | I'll probably tinker with the SD/MMC for data storage - mapping data, that sort of thing. |
| 15:23.51 | prpplague | http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/lgl/650708936.html\ |
| 15:23.53 | prpplague | http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/lgl/650708936.html |
| 15:23.55 | prpplague | interesting |
| 15:24.14 | RobotGuy | Ah, good, both quadrature encoder modules are brought out on the LM3S6965 eval board. Now I have to see if that conflicts with anything else I would want to use. |
| 15:27.02 | prpplague | looks like wiav is gearing up for more patent troll action |
| 15:27.11 | prpplague | nice to know AML funds have been well spent |
| 15:29.25 | prpplague | wonders when the celf presentations will be made available |
| 15:31.49 | chouimat|work | prpplague: hehe |
| 15:33.03 | solar | prpplague: I got a mail from them asking for the presenters to submit anything they have. The word at the conf however was that it would probably take a month |
| 15:33.53 | prpplague | solar: ahh ok, i assume they'll make an annoucement |
| 15:34.02 | prpplague | solar: probably to linuxdevices.com |
| 15:35.39 | solar | there was some talk about ppl submitting to youtube so it would all get out quicker. But I've yet to search there to see if anything has been posted |
| 15:43.35 | prpplague | solar: ahh, i'll have a look just for curiosity sake |
| 16:05.27 | sjhill | prpplague: nail status? |
| 16:05.41 | prpplague | sjhill: waiting on the production run to arrive |
| 16:05.49 | sjhill | still? |
| 16:05.52 | sjhill | sheesh |
| 16:05.53 | prpplague | sjhill: probably be here by friday |
| 16:05.59 | sjhill | fire those people! |
| 16:06.02 | prpplague | sjhill: yea, there was a problem |
| 16:06.13 | prpplague | sjhill: one of pick-n-place data was not correct |
| 16:06.13 | sjhill | between keyboard and chair? |
| 16:06.18 | sjhill | ah |
| 16:06.48 | prpplague | sjhill: naw, just didn't get translated between the layout app and their p-n-p application |
| 16:09.58 | ce_geek | prpplague: yeah. could be noise. Sketchy bread-board arrangement. |
| 16:12.36 | prpplague | ce_geek: probably could add a small bypass cap |
| 16:13.34 | Lars_G | prpplague: those chinnesse :D |
| 16:13.57 | prpplague | Lars_G: hehe, actually its local |
| 16:14.06 | Lars_G | :) |
| 16:14.17 | Lars_G | Don't worry I wont try to steal your production facility data |
| 16:14.38 | Lars_G | even with the project being open I preffer to leave fighting design issues to you guys and concentrate myself on using the device |
| 16:14.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I'm ordering 100 of the 2N7000 and 25 of the 74AHC245, plus a few connectors. |
| 16:14.55 | Lars_G | I sent my boss the propossals yesterday, let's see what comes out of it. |
| 16:15.04 | prpplague | Lars_G: okie dokie |
| 16:15.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: good items to have |
| 16:15.25 | Lars_G | the most fun in the project will be the windows side of stuff which i'll try to drop onto somebody else |
| 16:15.28 | Lars_G | :P |
| 16:15.47 | Lars_G | altough I might try to involve myself in the protocol design, I'm shooting for something very very specific and in theory nice, but hard to perform. |
| 16:16.39 | Lars_G | I want to create an equivalent of xml+css that is compact and geared for printing. |
| 16:17.59 | Lars_G | Basically i will try to design a protocol that is good for fast binary transfer, and that defines data and presentation separatedly. both things are hard to pull at once |
| 16:18.21 | Lars_G | more so if you add raster graphics and embedded fonts to the mix. |
| 16:18.26 | Lars_G | sighs |
| 16:18.57 | Lars_G | if I do generate something actually usseable I'll try to convince the boss to let me OSS it |
| 16:19.13 | Lars_G | That way I can also make it into a module and not into userspace :D |
| 16:20.44 | prpplague | getting a good deal while doing online tickets for airlines is a real art |
| 16:20.57 | Lars_G | it is |
| 16:21.11 | Lars_G | but it's still better than doing the same with a lousy agent. |
| 16:21.14 | prpplague | i did 6 different searchs and basically came up with 6 different prices for the exact same flights |
| 16:21.18 | Lars_G | altough a good travel agent can help loads with it |
| 16:22.46 | Lars_G | they will get a commission out of it, but they have lots of experience digging and can find convolute routes at very cheap that a piece of software is not able to calculate automatically |
| 16:33.20 | prpplague | http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=history;f=arch/arm/mach-s3c2410/mach-tct_hammer.c;h=d90d445ccfb41c19d6c05ee0e0b0c1de43590cec;hb=HEAD |
| 16:33.24 | prpplague | finally |
| 16:35.00 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 16:35.04 | prpplague | too much work to do |
| 16:35.38 | Lars_G | hammer is pushed into the main kernel? nice |
| 16:35.41 | Lars_G | very nice |
| 16:37.07 | Lars_G | huh |
| 16:37.12 | Lars_G | 3 uarts? I thought we had 2 |
| 16:38.02 | Lars_G | Oh well the day has come |
| 16:38.07 | Lars_G | it's time for me to become profficient in C |
| 16:40.28 | CosmicPenguin | Its always a good day to learn the one true language |
| 16:41.52 | Lars_G | CosmicPenguin: yeah but when you've both been running from it... and also desiring to try C++ instead to be able to use Qt4... well |
| 16:42.33 | *** join/#edev likewise (n=likewise@82-171-51-231.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 16:43.25 | Lars_G | At least with good C I will be able to use OnboardC on the Palm |
| 16:44.19 | RobotGuy | C is not that difficult. C++ is another story if you are not familiar with object oriented thinking. |
| 16:46.49 | prpplague | Lars_G: yea the 3rd uart is just looped back |
| 16:47.03 | Lars_G | weeps http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Halfway-in-the-Digital-Age.aspx |
| 16:47.07 | prpplague | Lars_G: atleast on the hammer |
| 16:47.14 | Lars_G | RobotGuy: I'm an OO-head |
| 16:47.19 | Lars_G | prpplague: ok. |
| 16:47.19 | prpplague | Lars_G: yea already read that one |
| 16:47.25 | Lars_G | prpplague: it made me weep |
| 16:47.37 | RobotGuy | Lars_G: I aspire to be one. :) |
| 16:47.54 | Lars_G | Well at job #1 I'm CIO and I'm still trying to get my subordinates to use RT |
| 16:48.07 | Lars_G | RobotGuy: I'm actually a dichotomy. as always I love the opposite extremes. |
| 16:48.31 | Lars_G | RobotGuy: On one hand I love OO, altough I dislike all the hassle around it C++ adds and I preffer the agile stuff like ruby. |
| 16:48.45 | Lars_G | RobotGuy: On the other, I think everybody should learn assembly, and I'm a fan of RISC assembly. |
| 16:48.54 | Lars_G | and for the last. I still am in love with old forth. |
| 16:48.55 | Lars_G | ah well |
| 16:49.24 | prpplague | i guess newsforge is no more |
| 16:51.08 | RobotGuy | Lars_G: I need to learn C++ for CORBA and Ogre3D. |
| 16:52.09 | Lars_G | huh |
| 16:52.42 | g1powermac | prpplague, got shots up now with voltage levels of the area where we think jtag is brought out: http://zipit2system.sourceforge.net/board.html |
| 16:52.51 | prpplague | dijenerate: last nights episode of the "bachelor" was at the hilton there in barbados |
| 16:52.59 | ce_geek | prpplague: Hi, just doing an xchat demo for my class. *ping* |
| 16:53.00 | Lars_G | what the.. HOLY FUCK YEAH |
| 16:53.02 | prpplague | dijenerate: i think in two weeks there are going back to barbados |
| 16:53.06 | Lars_G | NB 6.1 final is out! |
| 16:53.07 | Lars_G | dances |
| 16:53.07 | prpplague | ce_geek: greetings |
| 16:53.26 | ce_geek | prpplague: They say hello back. |
| 16:53.29 | prpplague | Lars_G: hey now, we have a strick language policy here |
| 16:53.39 | Lars_G | prpplague: Oh I didn't know. |
| 16:53.41 | g1powermac | prpplague, lemme know what you think of the voltages |
| 16:53.49 | g1powermac | if there's a shot of jtag being there |
| 16:54.23 | prpplague | looks |
| 16:55.03 | Lars_G | In that case, sorry then. |
| 16:56.00 | prpplague | Lars_G: np, we tend to have alot of people here that are IRC'n from work, in order to keep it from being blocked we need to make sure we have strict language policy as well as posted content |
| 16:56.12 | prpplague | g1powermac: hard to tell |
| 16:56.20 | Lars_G | prpplague: I understand |
| 16:56.25 | prpplague | g1powermac: i'll check some of the voltages on my board here |
| 16:56.58 | g1powermac | k |
| 16:57.57 | g1powermac | prpplague, also, not sure if you noticed, but the voltages on the aer chip do correlate with the lpc9125's power/gnd pins |
| 16:58.37 | prpplague | g1powermac: yea its hard to tell from the voltages on the jtag |
| 16:59.58 | prpplague | wonders what class ce_geek is doing a demo of xchat in |
| 17:00.26 | g1powermac | someone here had given me these voltages to jtag: http://www.pastebin.ca/1001793 |
| 17:00.36 | prpplague | looks |
| 17:01.01 | prpplague | let me compare those to my board |
| 17:01.03 | g1powermac | the interesting thing is the 2.65v and the TCK/TDO voltages |
| 17:01.31 | g1powermac | I wonder what those two would look like on my scope, the wavy 0v was weird |
| 17:02.22 | Lars_G | Eh am I still here? do you read me? |
| 17:02.45 | g1powermac | hey Lars_G :-) |
| 17:03.22 | Lars_G | Thanks. |
| 17:03.27 | Lars_G | something's amiss with my fw. brb |
| 17:07.05 | *** join/#edev bbradley (n=bbradley@92-235-133-146.cable.ubr17.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 17:09.14 | *** join/#edev Redhatte1 (n=vk4fsjl@203.94.56.252) |
| 17:09.30 | prpplague | g1powermac: i'm getting 3.2v on the tclk as well |
| 17:10.20 | g1powermac | hmm |
| 17:11.19 | prpplague | g1powermac: based on the datasheets i'm looking at, all of the s3c24xx stuff uses 3.3v pullups for the tck,tms,tdi, and nTRST |
| 17:11.45 | g1powermac | hmmm |
| 17:11.45 | prpplague | g1powermac: do you have any reference schematics for a pxa270 board? |
| 17:11.50 | prpplague | googles |
| 17:12.02 | g1powermac | only got the datasheet here |
| 17:14.26 | prpplague | looking now |
| 17:17.00 | *** join/#edev likewise (n=likewise@82-171-51-231.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 17:21.04 | RobotGuy | Why would somebody put two ethernet ports on a board if they can't be used at the same time? |
| 17:21.20 | agaffney | ... |
| 17:21.25 | agaffney | what retarded device is this? |
| 17:23.01 | g1powermac | prpplague, hmm, looking at the datasheet, looks like the jtag stuff should be at 1.8v, not 3.3v |
| 17:23.20 | RobotGuy | agaffney: http://microcontrollershop.com/product_info.php?cPath=154_170_268&products_id=2042 |
| 17:23.37 | prpplague | g1powermac: that would make sense if the core was running at 1.8v |
| 17:24.04 | roxfan | i'm pretty sure it's 3.3 |
| 17:24.20 | roxfan | my another pxa270 device is 3.3 |
| 17:25.27 | agaffney | RobotGuy: also, why is one of them only 10M? :P |
| 17:25.58 | g1powermac | ok, so who's right? |
| 17:26.16 | RobotGuy | agaffney: One is a 10 MBit only interface. I like the DM9000 better, but I guess it takes more to interface it. |
| 17:27.44 | prpplague | wow i'm really amazed at the lack of available pxa reference designs |
| 17:34.21 | RobotGuy | agaffney: I found a nice little ARM9 board - 64 MB RAM/512 MB Flash, AT91SAM9260 |
| 17:35.17 | RobotGuy | I'm surprised Spark Fun doesn't carry this one. |
| 17:35.59 | prpplague | RobotGuy: url? |
| 17:36.28 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://microcontrollershop.com/product_info.php?cPath=154_170_268&products_id=2323 |
| 17:37.02 | g1powermac | prpplague, I got info |
| 17:37.11 | g1powermac | prpplague, http://www.penguin.cz/~utx/zaurus/datasheets/CPU/28000102.pdf |
| 17:37.16 | g1powermac | its the Design Guide |
| 17:37.38 | prpplague | g1powermac: ahh thanks |
| 17:37.40 | prpplague | looks |
| 17:38.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ahh thats an olimex board |
| 17:39.41 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes. Spark Fun carries a lot of Olimex boards. They seem to have settled on Virtual COGs and one Cirrus board for ARM9 though. Too bad. |
| 17:40.04 | RobotGuy | I'd rather trade some of that Flash for more speed. |
| 17:41.23 | RobotGuy | I wonder how hard it would be to put ethernet on the SledgeHammer. Some of the Netburner modules have Ethernet on them. |
| 17:42.38 | prpplague | g1powermac: hmm i don't see any schematics included |
| 17:42.53 | prpplague | RobotGuy: enc28j60 |
| 17:43.18 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I know, 10 MBit only. :) |
| 17:43.40 | RobotGuy | Wouldn't need more, but doesn't that one put out a lot of heat? |
| 17:43.40 | prpplague | i just can't imagin anyone needing 100mb |
| 17:44.14 | RobotGuy | I like to keep things on my LAN at max speed for the network. :) |
| 17:45.49 | prpplague | i'm sorry i don't understand that statement |
| 17:46.53 | prpplague | g1powermac: yea looks like TCK should be pulled low when not used |
| 17:47.18 | prpplague | g1powermac: TDI and TMS should be pulled high |
| 17:47.24 | g1powermac | prpplague, interesting |
| 17:47.32 | g1powermac | but what about the voltage levels? |
| 17:48.07 | prpplague | i assume if the core is running at 3.3 it would be 3.3 |
| 17:48.11 | roxfan | i told you levels i had... |
| 17:48.41 | prpplague | let me rephrase that |
| 17:48.45 | g1powermac | is going to throw the design guide up on the sf site, since I'm not so sure of the stability of the link I found |
| 17:48.53 | prpplague | if the i/o is running at 3.3v the jtag will be as well |
| 17:49.24 | g1powermac | ahh |
| 17:49.26 | g1powermac | ok |
| 17:49.28 | prpplague | g1powermac: one way is to check the sdram/flash to see what operating voltage it is for |
| 17:49.39 | g1powermac | so, its looking pretty good |
| 17:49.48 | g1powermac | io on the main board is 3.3 |
| 17:50.20 | g1powermac | according to the expansion connector pinout |
| 17:50.41 | roxfan | http://pastebin.ca/raw/1001978 <- the levels i had on pxa270 |
| 17:50.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: how is having a 10mb device on your network switch going to impact the overall network performance? |
| 17:50.54 | g1powermac | they are running the memory at 1.8v though, kinda interesting they brought out the 1.8v for the memory to the expansion port |
| 17:50.57 | prpplague | looks |
| 17:51.22 | g1powermac | roxfan, ahh, it was you who showed me those, I forgot who showed me those voltages |
| 17:51.28 | prpplague | g1powermac: yea procs like the s3c2440 have one voltage for memory and another for i/o |
| 17:51.48 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It isn't. It's just personal preference that is not a necessity. :) |
| 17:52.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ok |
| 17:52.57 | prpplague | RobotGuy: and no the enc28j60 doesn't produce alot of heat unless you are maxing out the clock freq |
| 17:53.38 | prpplague | RobotGuy: all of our new line of kiosks are enc28j60 with PoE |
| 17:53.49 | RobotGuy | On SledgeHammer, put a 10 MBit ethernet next to a microSD socket on one end, and a mini-USB next to the JTAG connector on the other end. Sweet Module with an S3C2440a and the camera interface brought out. I'm just dreaming and wishing, of course. |
| 17:54.05 | g1powermac | prpplague, ok, so jtag hasn't been counted out as of yet, which is good :-) |
| 17:54.09 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Oh, OK, good, not that much heat then. |
| 17:54.27 | g1powermac | and in actuality, its looking like a stronger possibility of being in that spot |
| 17:54.33 | prpplague | RobotGuy: imho that defeats the purpose of having the board as a module |
| 17:55.21 | RobotGuy | prpplague: So does having USB on the module, actually. My preference is having all connectors (even JTAG) on the carrier board. That's just me though. |
| 17:55.47 | RobotGuy | Save the board realestate for things like more RAM and Flash. |
| 17:56.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i agree on the usb, but not on the jtag |
| 17:56.15 | g1powermac | prpplague, ok, so the question is, do I have to do anything with those resistors to test if its jtag? I'd figure the jtag cable should overcome the pullups/pulldowns without me pulling out those resistors. . . |
| 17:56.34 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, leave all connectors off the module except JTAG. |
| 17:56.38 | prpplague | g1powermac: no , there is no need to tinker with the resistors of TDI and TMS |
| 17:56.49 | g1powermac | alright |
| 17:56.53 | prpplague | g1powermac: however, you might have to do something with the resistor for TCK |
| 17:57.16 | g1powermac | hmm |
| 17:57.24 | prpplague | g1powermac: the resistors for those are internal |
| 17:57.35 | RobotGuy | 64 MB RAM and 128 MB Flash would be real nice to have. |
| 17:57.41 | g1powermac | hmmmm, so what should be done? |
| 17:58.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the boss is listening to your comments, i think its way overkill, but thats just me |
| 17:58.34 | prpplague | g1powermac: not real sure, if it were me, i'd just remove the pxa270 |
| 17:58.40 | prpplague | g1powermac: and find the lines |
| 17:58.46 | prpplague | g1powermac: but thats me, hehe |
| 17:58.52 | g1powermac | well, not an option here :-) |
| 17:59.06 | g1powermac | though we could still arrange for that xraying of the board |
| 17:59.55 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Sledge has to go quite a ways beyond Hammer, especially if it is going to stay an S3C2410A based module. With an S3C2440A and the camera interface, 64 MB RAM/128 MB Flash, it would be just too sweet. |
| 18:00.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy: well, i'm sure the boss will do a model for you eventually |
| 18:00.43 | RobotGuy | You could base some really sweet hand helds on that sort of SledgeHammer module. |
| 18:00.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: its just not what our customers are asking for right now |
| 18:00.52 | RobotGuy | prpplague: :D |
| 18:01.14 | g1powermac | prpplague, lemme know when you get the time for xray stuff, I'm more than willing to send my zipit over to you |
| 18:01.33 | RobotGuy | I know, they want USB on the module. I don't know what else they are actually asking for though. |
| 18:01.44 | prpplague | g1powermac: yea, i don't feel too comfortable taking it, since if i break it, i'd owe you one |
| 18:02.15 | g1powermac | send me a hammer if you break it ;-) |
| 18:02.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: like i said, the main items are sd vs. micro sd and usb slave onboard |
| 18:02.43 | RobotGuy | I'd go with microSD. |
| 18:03.11 | RobotGuy | I've been looking at microSD capacities today. All the way to 16 GB already, but they are a bit pricy still. |
| 18:04.05 | RobotGuy | Of all things I could see being on the Sledge, I think the microSD makes the most sense. |
| 18:04.08 | g1powermac | prpplague, though really, I'd take the risk to find the jtag, I'll send it to you without the back/battery so you have easy access to the board without disassembly |
| 18:04.31 | RobotGuy | Put a mini-USB next to the microSD slot. :D |
| 18:05.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea i'm not really in the loop for the sledge or the rdp right now |
| 18:05.22 | g1powermac | prpplague, all ya got to do is take it out of the packaging, xray it, and stick it back in the packaging |
| 18:05.41 | prpplague | g1powermac: i have to remove the pcb |
| 18:05.53 | RobotGuy | Tell Boss Guy hi. :) |
| 18:06.01 | g1powermac | ok, I could send you the bare pcb |
| 18:06.09 | prpplague | g1powermac: that would be better |
| 18:06.19 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i only see him about once a week |
| 18:06.29 | g1powermac | I think, the audio/lcd stuff could be interesting to get off the board |
| 18:06.36 | g1powermac | will have to talk to GPSFan about that |
| 18:07.01 | ce_geek | prpplague: I was just showing the resources I used to get the hammer stuff figured out. |
| 18:07.16 | prpplague | ce_geek: ahh |
| 18:07.35 | RobotGuy | is hoping to get another eval license for Crossworks. |
| 18:09.27 | prpplague | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_core |
| 18:09.32 | prpplague | one brace man |
| 18:09.34 | prpplague | brave |
| 18:12.06 | g1powermac | dang |
| 18:13.19 | chouimat|work | prpplague: or extremely stupid :) |
| 18:14.22 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: I've not seen 16G on the market |
| 18:14.27 | prpplague | ce_geek: captive audience eh? |
| 18:14.29 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: announcements - sure |
| 18:14.32 | g1powermac | GPSFan, do the lcd and what I assume is the wifi antenna connections come off the board easily? |
| 18:14.41 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: url? |
| 18:14.54 | g1powermac | looks like I'd have to ship the speaker with it |
| 18:15.09 | g1powermac | prpplague, will have a speaker attached the board cause issues with the xraying? |
| 18:15.15 | g1powermac | s/have/having |
| 18:15.22 | prpplague | g1powermac: no |
| 18:15.31 | g1powermac | k |
| 18:15.44 | prpplague | g1powermac: but i'll probably desolder the speaker before hand to make it easier |
| 18:15.45 | g1powermac | I think thats the only thing I can't get off the board without desoldering |
| 18:16.19 | g1powermac | ok |
| 18:16.37 | prpplague | anyone got the latest on the dilbert.com upgrade? |
| 18:17.16 | g1powermac | prpplague, what about all those correction wires? |
| 18:17.48 | ds2 | dilbert is gone. it is dead. |
| 18:18.29 | prpplague | g1powermac: those are fine |
| 18:18.38 | g1powermac | alright |
| 18:18.42 | prpplague | ds2: think so? |
| 18:18.59 | g1powermac | so, if all goes well, the only think you need to play with on the board is the speaker |
| 18:19.00 | chouimat|work | prpplague: works fine for me with flash :( |
| 18:19.09 | g1powermac | so, it shouldn't break :-) |
| 18:19.20 | ds2 | prpplague: yep. any site that goes to flash is dead. |
| 18:19.20 | prpplague | g1powermac: yea |
| 18:19.25 | g1powermac | and if it does. . .I'll make sure I'll insure the package |
| 18:19.37 | g1powermac | hey, you never know, the post office might break it ;-) |
| 18:19.39 | chouimat|work | ds2: why? |
| 18:19.57 | ds2 | chouimat|work: it just is. flash is the evil to end all evil. |
| 18:20.17 | chouimat|work | ds2: you will have a difficult time in the future because more and more site and appliance will use it |
| 18:20.18 | prpplague | i find it over complicated, slow, and it doesn't add anything to the core of the site |
| 18:20.22 | ds2 | a poor wad of chewing gum to attempt to repair stuff |
| 18:20.52 | ds2 | chouimat|work: prehaps I might; that doesn't change the fact that it is wrong and evil. |
| 18:23.27 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 18:23.37 | chouimat|work | ds2: I know but they want website and interface that please the nintendo and ipod (moronic) generation |
| 18:23.57 | ce_geek | prpplague: All 3 of them, yeah. |
| 18:24.00 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: SanDisk has a 12 GB microSD out now, and there are several 8 GB microSD. I guess I was just looking at an announcement for the 16 GB microSD. |
| 18:24.01 | ce_geek | prpplague: :) |
| 18:24.36 | chouimat|work | ds2: using a console is the past ... |
| 18:24.55 | ds2 | for you maybe |
| 18:25.06 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: ahh. /me is still on 4G ATM - because he's cheap. |
| 18:25.36 | MothaWork | hey now, I still don't have flash installed |
| 18:25.42 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: As with all things electronic, prices will go down, down, down. |
| 18:26.48 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I have my 2GB Thumb Drive. |
| 18:28.19 | RobotGuy | Right now, I just want to be able to tinker with Hammer and my LPC2148 boards. |
| 18:28.38 | SpeedEvil | ponders my incredulity if shown a 4GB microSD when I was on 5.25" 60MB RLL. |
| 18:29.53 | chouimat|work | SpeedEvil: hehe |
| 18:30.26 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I remember those drives. |
| 18:30.56 | SpeedEvil | ST225N |
| 18:31.00 | SpeedEvil | _LOUD_. |
| 18:31.23 | SpeedEvil | You could hear it start up through three closed doors 10m away. |
| 18:31.35 | RobotGuy | The ST225 was not RLL. It was still MFM. |
| 18:31.43 | SpeedEvil | It was RLL |
| 18:31.44 | chouimat|work | SpeedEvil: I think I have an old MFM drive somewhere |
| 18:31.48 | SpeedEvil | there were qualified versions |
| 18:31.54 | SpeedEvil | ST225R I think |
| 18:33.14 | chouimat|work | Hard Drive: SEAGATE: ST225N 21MB 5.25"/HH SCSI1 SE |
| 18:33.58 | RobotGuy | SCSI drives have always been behind in capacity because they are more expensive with the controller right on the drive. |
| 18:34.11 | RobotGuy | Then along came IDE and now SATA. |
| 18:35.38 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - it was the R |
| 18:36.29 | *** join/#edev Crofton (n=balister@66-207-66-26.black.dmt.ntelos.net) |
| 18:38.45 | jarv | http://www.physorg.com/news128618190.html |
| 18:39.25 | jarv | out of curiosity why is a switch that turns on and off with a "computer signal" such an innovation? |
| 18:39.54 | jarv | at least it doesn't sound very complicated |
| 18:40.06 | SpeedEvil | It's not. |
| 18:40.10 | jarv | oh good |
| 18:40.11 | SpeedEvil | It's simply costs. |
| 18:40.26 | SpeedEvil | It could have been implemented any time in the past couple of decades. |
| 18:40.30 | SpeedEvil | If anyone had cared. |
| 18:40.49 | SpeedEvil | There is no cost at all for manufacturers if their monitor uses 10W more than it might. |
| 18:41.05 | jarv | ok, so basically just a marketing thing |
| 18:41.21 | SpeedEvil | It's a good add-on. |
| 18:41.38 | SpeedEvil | But it's something that should have been done some time ago. |
| 18:42.03 | SpeedEvil | Wander around all your cellphone/... chargers and touch them when no cellphone is plugged in. |
| 18:42.12 | SpeedEvil | Most of them will be noticably warm. |
| 18:42.27 | jarv | i'm wondering if to get this feature you need to have that weird looking box sitting to the left of the monitor in the picture |
| 18:42.46 | SpeedEvil | Of course not. |
| 18:43.06 | jarv | good, that would be marketing disaster |
| 18:43.30 | SpeedEvil | It's simply a slightly different power supply design, maybe costing a teeny bit more. |
| 18:43.57 | jarv | and have claim to "worlds first" and "0 watt" |
| 18:43.59 | jarv | brilliant |
| 18:44.10 | SpeedEvil | 0 probably means 0.5 |
| 18:44.15 | SpeedEvil | under 0.5 |
| 18:44.34 | *** join/#edev likewise (n=likewise@82-171-51-231.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 18:45.03 | jarv | wonder how much a monitor draws in standby |
| 18:45.10 | SpeedEvil | It varies. |
| 18:45.16 | SpeedEvil | I could measure mine. |
| 18:45.25 | SpeedEvil | But that'd involve getting up. |
| 18:46.00 | SpeedEvil | Under 5W or so in 'off' is typical |
| 18:46.09 | jarv | gotch |
| 18:50.12 | prpplague | actually 0 watt devices are pretty common in places where eletricity is limited |
| 18:50.25 | SpeedEvil | Mandating stuff to use under 1W in standby is being proposed/implemented. |
| 18:50.35 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - but not for mains use. |
| 18:50.45 | prpplague | for instance in barbados, most people actually have complete cut off switches for their television and kitchen applicances |
| 18:51.02 | SpeedEvil | (typically) |
| 18:51.52 | prpplague | my mother-in-law actually turns of all the breakers except for the one for her frig when she leaves for work in the morning |
| 18:51.57 | prpplague | s/of/off |
| 18:52.35 | chouimat|work | reliable service |
| 18:52.46 | prpplague | chouimat|work: ? |
| 18:52.50 | jarv | yeah my mom does stuff like that when she leaves the house because she is afraid of things spontaneously catching fire |
| 18:53.14 | SpeedEvil | what does barbados electricity cost? |
| 18:53.31 | SpeedEvil | has an extra 100mm of insulation on his freezer. |
| 18:54.01 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: pretty expensive |
| 18:54.03 | chouimat|work | prpplague: nothing |
| 18:54.20 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: i'd have to get an old bill to get the exact number |
| 18:54.25 | GPSFan | g1powermac: yes, the only thing you have to de-solder is the speaker, 2 wires, nice big pads. the wifi is a ufl connector, the lcd pops off eaisly. I'll pop it off and take you a pix |
| 18:54.33 | prpplague | dijenerate: you got a light&power bill around? |
| 18:54.49 | SpeedEvil | finds the website. |
| 18:55.00 | MothaWork | unfortunately, getting a SMPS below 0.5W in standby is not easy |
| 18:55.12 | MothaWork | especially without sacrificing operational efficiency |
| 18:55.29 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I paid 876cad for my 2 bedroom apartment and utilities are included in the price so I'm ok ... |
| 18:55.29 | MothaWork | it's far, far easier to have people just unplug the darned things |
| 18:55.54 | SpeedEvil | 24c at 1000Kwh |
| 18:55.59 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:56.15 | MothaWork | 24c / kWh? that's kinda high |
| 18:56.29 | chouimat|work | it's high |
| 18:56.52 | MothaWork | I pay maybe 11-12 including service fees, sales taxes, etc. |
| 18:56.59 | SpeedEvil | MothaWork: barbadian |
| 18:57.04 | SpeedEvil | MothaWork: $2US |
| 18:57.05 | MothaWork | the raw rate is like 7-9c/kWh |
| 18:57.07 | g1powermac | GPSFan, sounds good |
| 18:57.13 | SpeedEvil | MothaWork: $.2US |
| 18:57.19 | SpeedEvil | Or about what I pay in the UK |
| 18:57.26 | g1powermac | GPSFan, looks like I'll be sending my zipit's board to prpplague for xraying tomorrow |
| 18:57.29 | MothaWork | oh, I thought that was a US rate |
| 18:57.49 | prpplague | ~exchange 3.92 BDS to USD |
| 18:57.50 | *** join/#edev magnetron (n=magnetro@unaffiliated/magnetron) |
| 18:57.51 | g1powermac | GPSFan, that reminds me, did you get your connectors? |
| 18:58.06 | prpplague | ~exchange 3.92BDS to USD |
| 18:58.11 | prpplague | yea yea |
| 18:58.20 | SpeedEvil | It's fixed at 2:1 |
| 18:58.26 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: i know |
| 18:58.41 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: was just trying to get purl to report it in a nice format |
| 18:58.45 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 18:58.49 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: you forget i lived there for 4 years |
| 18:58.57 | SpeedEvil | No I diddn't. |
| 18:59.05 | SpeedEvil | I don't think I ever knew. |
| 18:59.28 | chouimat|work | SpeedEvil: from what I heard from him about this time is lot of Sun and bad beer |
| 18:59.31 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: ahh |
| 18:59.59 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: 1.96/kWh |
| 19:00.33 | GPSFan | g1powermac: http://www.paonia.com/~kenm/Pix/cache/images/Zipit/Z2/1024x768/PICT1106.JPG http://www.paonia.com/~kenm/Pix/cache/images/Zipit/Z2/1024x768/PICT1107.JPG |
| 19:00.59 | GPSFan | g1powermac: mail hasn't come today, not yet. |
| 19:01.04 | g1powermac | alrighty |
| 19:01.08 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: US? |
| 19:01.13 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea |
| 19:01.50 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:04.28 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: if you are figuring just the actually cost per kWh its something like 0.20 per, but you have to understand there is also the vat as well as a fuel charge |
| 19:04.35 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: see the bottom of that page |
| 19:04.57 | prpplague | http://www.blpc.com.bb/faqs/faqs.cfm?cat=Fuel_Adjustment |
| 19:06.49 | SpeedEvil | Ah - $.45 or so/KWh then - $.22US or about 11p |
| 19:06.56 | SpeedEvil | is paying 10p. |
| 19:07.31 | chouimat|work | prpplague: http://www.hydroquebec.com/residential/facture/tarif_d.html |
| 19:07.34 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: plus all of the additional taxes |
| 19:08.02 | ds2 | do like what maxim does - add a linear that comes on for the low power modes |
| 19:08.54 | prpplague | 2000 kWh is right at $500USd |
| 19:09.25 | chouimat|work | hmmm |
| 19:09.34 | ds2 | 2MWh is a lot of power! |
| 19:10.01 | prpplague | thats about 2.5 times the cost for my current bill |
| 19:10.28 | prpplague | ds2: thats about average for texas |
| 19:10.40 | chouimat|work | ds2: I paid that a few time when I was in Quebec City ... 3 weeks of -30C give you a nice bill |
| 19:10.50 | ds2 | prplague: what do people there run that pulls 2MWh in one month? |
| 19:10.56 | prpplague | a/c |
| 19:11.04 | chouimat|work | ds2: here heat :) |
| 19:11.22 | ds2 | they must work harder out there then around here |
| 19:11.30 | ds2 | I should find out what is the typical usage in PHX, AZ |
| 19:11.49 | ds2 | chouimat|work: you must be on electric heat? |
| 19:12.19 | chouimat|work | ds2: some of the apartments I ranted where ... |
| 19:12.27 | chouimat|work | err rented |
| 19:12.33 | chouimat|work | can't type today |
| 19:12.45 | ds2 | no wonder |
| 19:13.30 | ds2 | chouimat|work: is most of the city well insulated for -30C? |
| 19:13.49 | prpplague | my highest consumption month last year was 3900kWh |
| 19:15.14 | chouimat|work | ds2: last apartment I had in quebec city wasn't well insulated ... and I was paying 80$/month ... and when I left I owned them about 700$ because the 80$ was just an estimate based on the consomation of the previous occupants ... and when I was there I had 2 years in a row a very cold winter |
| 19:15.46 | prpplague | either way, compared to the income of most folks on the island a $100BDS electric bill is hefty |
| 19:15.56 | ds2 | prpplague: at that much power draw, would solar be sufficient to ease it abit? |
| 19:16.17 | prpplague | ds2: would be if the HOA;s would allow it |
| 19:16.23 | ds2 | ah |
| 19:16.31 | ds2 | <-- would never accept a HOA |
| 19:16.47 | prpplague | ds2: you pretty much don;t have a choice in most areas of DFW |
| 19:16.57 | ds2 | oh it is like that :( |
| 19:17.21 | prpplague | only the areas you _don't_ want to live don't have HOA's |
| 19:17.24 | chouimat|work | Home Owner Agreement? |
| 19:17.34 | prpplague | Home Owners Association |
| 19:18.05 | g1powermac | prpplague, ugh, HOAs, we had some major bad experiences with them |
| 19:18.49 | prpplague | refrains from maiking jokes about KY HOA's |
| 19:19.03 | g1powermac | nah, go for it |
| 19:20.50 | chouimat|work | is waiting |
| 19:23.09 | chouimat|work | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:23.49 | ds2 | are you running indent randomly? ;) |
| 19:24.06 | ds2 | and using diff -c? |
| 19:24.08 | chouimat|work | no I run make i18n to test it |
| 19:24.12 | prpplague | g1powermac: did the HOA give trouble because the moon on your outhouse was a 3/4 moon instead of a 1/4 moon? |
| 19:24.23 | g1powermac | hahaha |
| 19:24.37 | chouimat|work | ouch |
| 19:25.06 | prpplague | g1powermac: or did they complain that the tires in the front yard weren't whitewalls ? |
| 19:25.27 | g1powermac | hehe |
| 19:26.28 | g1powermac | nah, it was much more exotic than that, they complained about the biohazard tape that we wrapped the house up with because, it was, well, a biohazard from the massive toxic mold infestation due to bad builder |
| 19:26.58 | prpplague | ahh |
| 19:27.24 | chouimat|work | wow |
| 19:27.24 | g1powermac | oh yea, we found out here after buying a house that you don't have to be licensed to be a builder in this state |
| 19:27.31 | g1powermac | s/a/the |
| 19:27.44 | chouimat|work | bangs his head on his desk |
| 19:28.08 | g1powermac | it was a total mess, lawsuits flying around both direction |
| 19:28.26 | prpplague | yea don't plan on becomming a dentist and working in KY, you'll go broke |
| 19:28.45 | prpplague | heads to lunch |
| 19:42.47 | SpeedEvil | $500/2000KWH pretty much describes his last couple of months bill. |
| 19:42.51 | SpeedEvil | (electricity) |
| 19:45.04 | RobotGuy | bangs chouimat|work's head on the desk |
| 19:45.07 | RobotGuy | :P |
| 19:45.17 | g1powermac | thats quite a bit for power |
| 19:45.54 | g1powermac | though we have the cheapest power though in the country, thank all those massively polluting coal power plants |
| 19:45.59 | SpeedEvil | My gas heating has packed up and I haven't fixed it yet. |
| 19:46.34 | RobotGuy | My electric is around $45.00/month with one PC running 24/7. |
| 19:46.49 | SpeedEvil | That's electic heating in a cool climate. |
| 19:46.57 | SpeedEvil | 2KW heater running most of the time. |
| 19:47.09 | RobotGuy | I do not use my apartment heaters at all. |
| 19:48.35 | g1powermac | hmm, its about $300 a month here for our 3300 sq ft store |
| 19:48.49 | g1powermac | with full lighting, heating, computers, and stuff |
| 19:49.13 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: It's been -2C some nights - so I've pretty much had to. I'm working on the wall insulation. It used to be 50cm stone, 5cm gap, plasterboard. |
| 19:49.20 | SpeedEvil | I'm putting in 10cm of fibreglass. |
| 19:49.33 | RobotGuy | Wow |
| 19:50.07 | Lars_G | RobotGuy: something in that line triggered my highlighter |
| 19:56.21 | RobotGuy | In what line? |
| 19:57.04 | RobotGuy | I hope the tutorials I write are usable. |
| 19:58.09 | RobotGuy | I've been trying to get my first OGRE application compiled and working and none of the tutorials have helped me at all so far. |
| 19:58.28 | Lars_G | < RobotGuy> I do not use my apartment heaters at all. |
| 20:00.30 | RobotGuy | Hmmm, no idea why that would set off a highlighter |
| 20:06.34 | RobotGuy | I hate when tutorials don't tutor. |
| 20:07.02 | RobotGuy | I'm going to have to review my tutorials and make sure they do. |
| 20:19.52 | prpplague | returns |
| 20:20.01 | g1powermac | wb |
| 20:21.04 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: actually i use about 2000kWh, but my bill is usually around $200 |
| 20:21.23 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: same usage in barbados would be about $500 |
| 20:21.24 | SpeedEvil | Electricity is very cheap in many parts of the US. |
| 20:21.38 | SpeedEvil | Barbados has about the same price as the UK. |
| 20:22.20 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea, there is an additional factor, the island has a limited source of electricity |
| 20:22.32 | ce_geek | prpplague: Any reason I shouldn't be able to bread-board the ethernet module you sent me? |
| 20:22.48 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: plus that cost is out of proportion the average income in barbados |
| 20:22.54 | prpplague | ce_geek: none |
| 20:22.56 | ce_geek | prpplague: Going to get that set up so ethernet works when I give this thing to Rick, I'm keeping my USB dongle |
| 20:23.00 | SpeedEvil | Oh - sure. - about the income. |
| 20:23.18 | SpeedEvil | Average income in the UK is some 4* that |
| 20:23.33 | ce_geek | prpplague: Lots of specific questions about memory and where stuff lives came up today. I'll have to ask you about that stuff at some point. |
| 20:23.46 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: iirc the average income in barbados is about 6000 quid |
| 20:23.57 | prpplague | ce_geek: okie dokie |
| 20:24.06 | prpplague | ce_geek: any time i'm online your welcom to ask |
| 20:24.59 | ce_geek | prpplague: Cool. The report hasn't gotten touched in a while, that's my project after I finish fixing my thesis. The grad school bled all over it with all sorts of nit-picky formatting complaints. *grumble* |
| 20:25.20 | ce_geek | prpplague; And that's when it'll be best to discuss so it gets documented while it's fresh in my head. |
| 20:25.28 | prpplague | okie dokie |
| 20:29.12 | prpplague | wonders what landley is up to |
| 20:30.26 | ce_geek | uses a high quality bottle opener to hold a single-row header in place to solder to the hammer board |
| 20:30.49 | ce_geek | *carrier board |
| 20:31.39 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:32.06 | ce_geek | It's a curved shape, so it makes a good wedge. |
| 20:32.47 | ce_geek | puts the bottle opener back in his desk drawer which may or may not be in his lab at school.... |
| 20:32.59 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:33.07 | prpplague | ce_geek: i keep one on my keychain |
| 20:33.12 | ce_geek | prpplague; That works too. |
| 20:33.27 | prpplague | ce_geek: most bottles outside the US aren't twist off |
| 20:33.55 | ce_geek | This was hands down the most awesome freebie at a job fair. It's a nice hunk of metal. Given out by Hypertherm, they make plasma cutters, so it was appropriate :-P |
| 20:34.32 | ce_geek | http://www.yessah.net/opener.jpg |
| 20:37.25 | prpplague | looks |
| 20:37.34 | prpplague | oh nice |
| 22:02.36 | *** join/#edev purl (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 22:02.36 | *** topic/#edev is a channel for the discussion of hacking small consumer electronic devices, mostly ARM based; Hammer Development boards now available at http://www.tincantools.com/ |
| 22:02.42 | prpplague | yea the GBA has 256k ram |
| 22:02.53 | prpplague | the rest was running xip from flash |
| 22:03.40 | MonMotha | Atmel does have some 512k ARM7s out now |
| 22:03.45 | MonMotha | I think NXP does, too |
| 22:03.52 | prpplague | yea? |
| 22:03.54 | MonMotha | yes |
| 22:03.58 | prpplague | i'll have to look again |
| 22:04.02 | prpplague | it has been awhile |
| 22:04.03 | MonMotha | 128k of RAM, though, IIRC |
| 22:04.17 | *** join/#edev Redhatter (n=vk4fsjl@2001:388:f000:0:0:0:0:279) |
| 22:04.31 | prpplague | the thing is that for the cost you can get a arm with mmu and external sdram controller for the price these days |
| 22:05.02 | GPSFan | MonMotha: my webpals have the 64M mod and a 32M cf disk. plenty of space. it's the 75Mhz cpu speed that sucks rocks. turn off the chrontel video chip and the replace the 5V linear reg with something better and the power isn't too bad. |
| 22:05.06 | MonMotha | I really wish there were some accessable (i.e. purchasable in 1-5k qty) ARM9 SoCs with integrated SDRAM and Flash |
| 22:05.31 | MonMotha | GPSFan: the regulator is what I was referring to. Replacing that is a hassle, but not too difficult |
| 22:05.46 | MonMotha | and yeah, I was told the silly Chrontel video output encoder was the power hog |
| 22:05.49 | prpplague | MonMotha: hehe, thats kind of what the hammer was intended to be |
| 22:05.51 | *** join/#edev ico2 (n=ico2@modem-2290.chameleon.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 22:06.00 | MonMotha | prpplague: well, I'm thinking when I have limited board space |
| 22:06.14 | prpplague | ahh |
| 22:06.14 | MonMotha | if I've got the board space, using external memory isn't so much of a problem |
| 22:06.59 | prpplague | MonMotha: you've not looked at the s3c2442? |
| 22:07.08 | MonMotha | I've got an upcoming effort to basically cram an ARM7 into something the size of a hammer (maybe a bit bigger in one dimension) but with a bunch of analog IO |
| 22:07.29 | MonMotha | prpplague: can I buy 1000 of those without a lot of hassle? |
| 22:07.33 | prpplague | yea |
| 22:07.53 | MonMotha | ok, still needs external memory, though |
| 22:07.57 | GPSFan | MonMotha: at $6-$8 each the webpals were a bargain, but the Hammer is a far more modern solution to problems I would have used a webpal for a few years ago. |
| 22:07.59 | prpplague | no |
| 22:08.07 | prpplague | you can order with flash and sdram |
| 22:08.11 | MonMotha | oh, wait, that's the module option |
| 22:08.26 | MonMotha | GPSFan: yes. I ended up paying like $5 each for my webpals though...shipped |
| 22:08.43 | prpplague | http://www.samsung.com/us/business/semiconductor/newsView.do?news_id=683.0 |
| 22:09.15 | MonMotha | what package do those come in? A BGA, I presume, but what pitch? |
| 22:09.21 | MonMotha | being forced into tiny design rules sucks |
| 22:09.36 | MonMotha | though there are times when you need it to meet the size requirements |
| 22:10.02 | prpplague | MonMotha: http://www.samsung.com/global/system/business/semiconductor/product/2007/7/7/046670sc32442_msp.pdf |
| 22:10.11 | *** join/#edev likewise (n=likewise@82-171-51-231.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 22:10.33 | prpplague | MonMotha: its not too bad, its 332 bga |
| 22:10.51 | *** join/#edev bbradley (n=bbradley@92-235-133-146.cable.ubr17.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 22:11.07 | MonMotha | that's certainly doable, but do you know the ball pitch? |
| 22:11.21 | MonMotha | anything less than the standard 1mm is something of a hassle, and <0.75mm is a real pain |
| 22:11.38 | prpplague | yea i can't remember, let me check |
| 22:13.18 | prpplague | lovely can't find the font |
| 22:13.29 | adyer | MonMotha: its a 'wireless' part - dollars to doughnuts its a 0.4mm pitch :-) |
| 22:13.39 | MonMotha | adyer: yeah, that's the problem |
| 22:13.48 | MonMotha | ahoy microvias |
| 22:13.57 | MonMotha | aka $$$ |
| 22:14.03 | prpplague | looks to me 0.8mm |
| 22:14.13 | MonMotha | wow, well, 0.8mm is doable |
| 22:14.13 | prpplague | be |
| 22:14.17 | MonMotha | I just did one at that pitch |
| 22:14.30 | MonMotha | forces you to 4/4, but that's becoming pretty standard |
| 22:14.51 | MonMotha | 1mm is nice because it can be done with everybody's standard design rules |
| 22:15.11 | adyer | humph, when did samsung start doing the 'thou must register for data' thing? sucks. |
| 22:16.18 | RobotGuy | adyer: It sure does suck! |
| 22:16.34 | RobotGuy | Luminary Micro is the same way though. |
| 22:16.55 | MonMotha | we actually had a Marvell rep at one point wanting to sell us stuff |
| 22:16.59 | prpplague | yea 0.8mm |
| 22:17.00 | RobotGuy | They want to know where their data is going and who is accessing it. Even Atmel does it. |
| 22:17.01 | MonMotha | I was amazed |
| 22:17.15 | MonMotha | Atmel does not require registration for most all of their datasheets |
| 22:17.35 | adyer | MonMotha: when Broadcom calls, then you know you're in the twilight zone ;-) |
| 22:17.42 | RobotGuy | Atmel apparently doesn't save your data in their registry though, so you have to put it in each time. |
| 22:17.55 | MonMotha | adyer: no kidding |
| 22:18.01 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 22:18.01 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 22:18.04 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: They do when you want to download software from them though. |
| 22:18.10 | MonMotha | adyer: I actually got LAUGHED AT by Broadcom when I asked for data once |
| 22:18.27 | MonMotha | a simple "no" would have sufficed |
| 22:19.07 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: Think of how I feel.. All I want to look at data for is curiosity most of the time because I wouldn't have any way to use it anyway. |
| 22:19.13 | adyer | MonMotha: was very plucky of you to ask. |
| 22:19.22 | MonMotha | adyer: I expected a negative response |
| 22:19.28 | MonMotha | I just didn't expect to be laughed at |
| 22:20.02 | RobotGuy | I think I'll go hit Maxim and ADI up for some samples. |
| 22:21.12 | prpplague | MonMotha: http://www.opatnet.cz/elektronika/datasheet/U/um_s3c2442b_rev12.pdf |
| 22:21.18 | prpplague | MonMotha: if you are interested |
| 22:21.33 | MonMotha | wgets |
| 22:21.39 | prpplague | heads home for the day |
| 22:21.40 | prpplague | bbiab |
| 22:25.04 | MonMotha | oh cripes, It's got cutouts |
| 22:25.10 | MonMotha | I could probably route that on standard design rules if I had to |
| 22:25.29 | MonMotha | would need some extra layers to do so, perhaps |
| 22:33.39 | MonMotha | hum, it's actually 0.5mm |
| 22:33.52 | MonMotha | so much to standard rules, but at least the cutouts help |
| 22:37.25 | ds2 | broadcom and datasheet... that is funny |
| 22:39.35 | ds2 | has anyone used the ADI VGA to NTSC converter chips? |
| 22:41.54 | MonMotha | VGA to NTSC? |
| 22:42.01 | MonMotha | as in they include an interlace step? |
| 22:42.04 | MonMotha | or just RGB to NTSC? |
| 22:42.16 | MonMotha | (feed it analog RGB with appropriate timings) |
| 22:43.16 | ds2 | RGB to NTSC |
| 22:43.25 | ds2 | the VGA controller needs to generate the 15KHz signal |
| 22:43.44 | MonMotha | gotcha |
| 22:44.00 | MonMotha | "VGA" often includes implications on timing, as well as signal format |
| 22:44.00 | ds2 | I conceded defeat in finding a suitable small device that can generate video out to a TV set |
| 22:44.08 | MonMotha | and the answer then is, yes |
| 22:44.22 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_PB (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 22:44.26 | MonMotha | I've used the AD724, though the AD725 is more available and is a better option (identical except for small changes for the better) |
| 22:44.37 | ds2 | are they as easy to use as the schematics for the eval board suggest? |
| 22:44.58 | MonMotha | yes, with the caveat that I could not get the onboard oscillator on the AD724 to tune up no matter what I did |
| 22:44.59 | ds2 | the AD725 is the one that takes a single color burst xtal and doesn't need the pi network filter, right? |
| 22:45.08 | ds2 | oh Hmmmm |
| 22:45.20 | MonMotha | you're thinking the AD724 |
| 22:45.27 | MonMotha | and the reason it doesn't need the filter is that it just doesn't support it |
| 22:45.52 | MonMotha | the 725 supports it, which helps composite video quality some by keeping high frequency luma out of the chromas path |
| 22:45.56 | ds2 | Hmmmm if you can't get it to tune up, does that mean you have to use a xtal osc module inplace of the color burst xtal? |
| 22:46.25 | MonMotha | yes, and also realize that most of those "crystal oscillator in a can" things aren't particularly accurate |
| 22:46.32 | ds2 | filters == analog stuff == more sensitivity and a need to deal with inductors |
| 22:46.49 | MonMotha | I finally had to make one using a 74HC04 and a 14.31818MHz crystal and a variable cap to tune it up |
| 22:46.54 | MonMotha | then it worked fine |
| 22:46.55 | ds2 | what i want to do is build the entire thing in a HD-15 VGA connector shell so those cans are huge |
| 22:47.12 | MonMotha | you're making a custom PCB? |
| 22:47.34 | MonMotha | there are some pretty small formfactor crystals in both through-hole and SMD, but SMD is way smaller |
| 22:47.35 | ds2 | hoping not to but I might make up (milled out instead of etched) |
| 22:48.00 | ds2 | SMD is preferred as I don't want to spend a fortune on #60 or smaller drills |
| 22:48.13 | MonMotha | you can get 14.31818s in the "watch crystal" formfactor, then use a 74HC04 in SOIC or TSSOp |
| 22:48.26 | MonMotha | or you can get 2 gate 74HC04s now, instead of the standard 6 |
| 22:48.31 | MonMotha | you only need 2 of the 6 |
| 22:48.42 | MonMotha | let me see if I can dig up my circuit |
| 22:51.52 | MonMotha | bah, I don't have the PDF output set up on my laptop with the schematic |
| 22:51.53 | MonMotha | it's simple though |
| 22:53.14 | MonMotha | run a 100k resistor from input to output of the inverter to linearize the behavior a bit, connect the crystal in series with a ~100ohm resistor from output to input, with the resistor on the output side. Tag a couple caps off either side of the crystal. The value depends on the crystal characteristics, but 15-40pF is about right. Make one of them a variable cap. |
| 22:53.58 | MonMotha | then run the output of the gate through another 100ohm resistor in series with a 120pF cap into the input of another gate, and the output of that second gate (used as a buffer) is your color subcarrier clock |
| 22:54.03 | MonMotha | you can tune it up with the variable cap |
| 22:54.17 | MonMotha | it needs to be hyper-accurate to guarantee compatibility |
| 22:54.26 | MonMotha | there's a reason it's specified to 14.31818MHz |
| 22:54.49 | MonMotha | also remember to bypass the chip's power, of course |
| 22:55.23 | *** part/#edev Mr_Bonga (n=Rui_Silv@213.205.70.2) |
| 22:55.46 | MonMotha | as for the luma trap, just use 1206 or 0805 (whatever you prefer) passives. Both the inductor and capacitor (whatever tradeoff you select) should be readily available in those packages |
| 22:56.20 | MonMotha | looks like I ended up with 68uH and 30pF, but I don't remember why I made that particular decision (obviously it has to be resonant at 3.579545MHz) |
| 22:56.55 | ds2 | hmmm |
| 22:58.32 | ds2 | this sounds more complex then the evalboard schematics |
| 22:58.38 | MonMotha | obviously, all those frequencies are slightly different in 50Hz power land |
| 22:59.01 | ds2 | right... don't care about 50Hz land as that'd imply I need PAL support also |
| 22:59.03 | MonMotha | what chip are you looking at? The 725 doesn't have an onboard oscillator, so you have to supply your own CMOS level clock |
| 22:59.19 | MonMotha | ds2: not really. Brazil runs NTSC but at 50Hz ("PAL" timings" |
| 22:59.21 | ds2 | the chip that requires the fewest component, I don't have the list at me just this moment |
| 22:59.31 | MonMotha | the fewest components is the 724 |
| 22:59.36 | MonMotha | unfortunately, it also doesn't work very well |
| 22:59.53 | MonMotha | like I said, I couldn't get the osc to tune up. I finally just built my own oscillator |
| 22:59.55 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_apl (i=g1powerm@CPE-76-177-156-202.natcky.res.rr.com) |
| 23:00.21 | ds2 | is the 725 implementable on a 2 sided board? |
| 23:00.25 | MonMotha | should be |
| 23:00.57 | MonMotha | the 725 is basically the 724 minus the onboard oscillator (so you have to supply a clock, not just a crystal), plus the luma trap (which is just two passives in series to ground) |
| 23:01.18 | ds2 | I guess the only criteria is can I fit it into a HD-15 shell |
| 23:01.27 | RobotGuy | wmat: ping |
| 23:01.28 | MonMotha | I think so |
| 23:01.37 | MonMotha | you may end up with components on both sides of the board, but it should fit |
| 23:01.48 | ds2 | the luma trap is what I didn't like - unless I missed something, it requires relatively tight tolerance inductors + caps |
| 23:02.04 | MonMotha | well, the tighter tolerance, the better it works |
| 23:02.14 | MonMotha | however, if you're off, it won't break completely |
| 23:02.18 | MonMotha | you should be able to omit it entirely |
| 23:02.27 | MonMotha | it would behave like the 724, then |
| 23:02.36 | MonMotha | and composite would look kinda poopy, but s-video is fine |
| 23:02.36 | ds2 | Hmmmm |
| 23:02.46 | ds2 | composite is what i want |
| 23:02.53 | MonMotha | then I'd recommend the luma trap |
| 23:03.32 | ds2 | tight tolerance + stray board cap == many iterations :/ |
| 23:03.52 | MonMotha | well, you can trade off capacitance and inductance |
| 23:04.02 | MonMotha | there's an app note in the datasheet about choosing the two components |
| 23:04.02 | ds2 | did you have issues with strays since the caps are small enough that strays are non trivial |
| 23:04.11 | MonMotha | I did not, on |
| 23:04.12 | MonMotha | no |
| 23:04.29 | ds2 | Hmmm... |
| 23:04.33 | MonMotha | but then, I don't use the composite much |
| 23:04.36 | MonMotha | I mostly use the s-video output |
| 23:04.43 | MonMotha | and you can't see the effects on that |
| 23:04.54 | *** join/#edev linac (n=lin@121.41.34.12) |
| 23:05.09 | ds2 | S-video input displays are less common then composite in |
| 23:05.13 | MonMotha | you should be able to trade down inductance and use a larger cap, into the nF range |
| 23:05.19 | MonMotha | where strays aren't as big of a deal |
| 23:05.34 | MonMotha | if you get the trap wrong, it won't break, it just won't work as well in terms of video quality |
| 23:05.50 | MonMotha | and if you get it wrong, you can just swap out parts to make it work experimentally, too |
| 23:06.05 | MonMotha | it's just a matter of getting the thing resonant at the right frequency |
| 23:06.40 | ds2 | Hmmmm and how available are the 725's? the the ADI page seem to suggest they aren't that available |
| 23:07.17 | MonMotha | Digi-Key has about 100 of them in stock |
| 23:07.34 | MonMotha | looks like they are also now stocking the AD724 |
| 23:07.37 | MonMotha | they did not used to |
| 23:07.44 | MonMotha | the 724 costs ~$1.5 more |
| 23:08.25 | ds2 | Hmmm might be less trouble to just digikey them instead of sampling them |
| 23:08.45 | MonMotha | ADI is usually pretty good about samples, but it's ALWAYS less trouble to just buy them from digi-key if they stock them :) |
| 23:08.47 | g1powermac_apl | GPSFan, I think I'm gonna wait yet on sending my zipit to prpplague |
| 23:09.02 | g1powermac_apl | GPSFan, I wanna do some more software hacking right now |
| 23:10.13 | ds2 | right, I've sampled from them before |
| 23:10.42 | ds2 | any comments on the wise-ness of powering the AD72[45] off a USB bus? |
| 23:11.22 | RobotGuy | Sheesh, CodeSourcery splits their versions by the platform you are targeting. Does everybody do it that way? Rowley has one version for all ARM. |
| 23:11.44 | MonMotha | I wouldn't call it wise, but it doesn't seem to be nearly as susceptible to power supply ripple as they imply |
| 23:11.52 | MonMotha | you could probably just use a LC filter on the power |
| 23:11.56 | ds2 | RobotGuy: I know of aleast one other company that does it the CS way |
| 23:12.12 | MonMotha | inductor in front of the bulk cap on the board to cut down on HF |
| 23:12.37 | RobotGuy | I don't know if Crossworks can compile Linux, as in the kernel, though, or if others can. |
| 23:13.37 | ds2 | the other thing is, IIRC, the USB spec calls for power down to 4.5v whereas the chip wants a min of around 4.75v (5% vs 10%) |
| 23:14.16 | ds2 | the other way is to use a maxim charge pump with 2AA's... last time I suggested that in an analog circuit, the analog folks were horrified ;) |
| 23:14.23 | RobotGuy | That would make the chip more conservative then, right? Is that bad? |
| 23:16.18 | MonMotha | ds2: charge pumps don't tend to have the greatest output "quality" |
| 23:16.27 | ds2 | RobotGuy: what would make the chip more conservative? |
| 23:16.45 | ds2 | MonMotha: they don't look that horrible from the maxim datasheet |
| 23:16.58 | RobotGuy | ds2: Having it need 4.75V instead of what USB specs at 4.5V |
| 23:17.04 | ds2 | and if you can't tell already, I don't like inductors |
| 23:17.17 | MonMotha | what you could do is use a charge pump or boost converter up to like 6V, then use a low noise 5V LDO |
| 23:17.28 | MonMotha | there's nothing wrong with inductors |
| 23:17.29 | ds2 | RobotGuy: no, it might mean it won't behave as spec'ed... cuz 4.5V is the lower limit of what can be supplied |
| 23:17.40 | MonMotha | they don't always behave as you want them to, but they tend to at least behave in reasonable ways |
| 23:18.31 | ds2 | inductors are like magic potions... they don't quite behave like the equations predict (non ideal char. like real resistance, etc) |
| 23:18.33 | MonMotha | and you just can't make high power DC-DC converters without magnetics |
| 23:19.10 | ds2 | *nod* |
| 23:21.27 | *** join/#edev Appleman1234 (n=Appleman@131.181.47.14) |
| 23:27.51 | RobotGuy | CodeSourcery wouldn't install. |
| 23:33.36 | GPSFan | g1powermac_apl: connectors arrived. ;>) thanks again... |
| 23:33.44 | g1powermac_apl | awesome |
| 23:34.10 | GPSFan | now if I only knew what to connect to them ;>) |
| 23:35.02 | g1powermac_apl | heh, you know, someone here was able to access the restricted part of the wiki without agreeing to the their agreement |
| 23:35.15 | g1powermac_apl | just don't accept, it'll still let you through |
| 23:35.55 | GPSFan | hmmm didn't for me, though I haven't tried since it was first put up. |
| 23:39.14 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-164-200.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 23:39.16 | GPSFan | I get a 404 error when trying to go th the hardware page on the wiki. |
| 23:39.26 | g1powermac_apl | hmm |
| 23:39.27 | GPSFan | prpplague: not the elinux wiki |
| 23:39.49 | g1powermac_apl | odd, don't remember who did it originally, roxfan was that you? |
| 23:40.03 | prpplague | GPSFan ok |
| 23:40.17 | GPSFan | going here http://linux.zipitwireless.com/projects/hardware results in a 404 for me |
| 23:40.28 | g1powermac_apl | prpplague, btw, think I'm gonna wait a little bit before sending my zipit board to you |
| 23:40.38 | g1powermac_apl | I want to do some more hacking yet |
| 23:44.22 | g1powermac_apl | GPSFan, currently building buildroot on my dev machine so i can try building wireless-tools for iwconfig |
| 23:44.48 | g1powermac_apl | then I can setup my zipit to work on my wep wifi here |
| 23:45.52 | GPSFan | g1powermac_apl: build dropbear as well then you cah ssh in from your desktop, much easier than typing on that crappy keyboard. (IMHO the Z1 keyboard was nicer) |
| 23:46.05 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 23:46.28 | g1powermac_apl | GPSFan, ya, but I got dropbear already from the shell hack :-) |
| 23:47.09 | g1powermac_apl | as for the keyboard, meh, its ok |
| 23:47.12 | GPSFan | is that built with static libs?? |
| 23:47.23 | g1powermac_apl | well, it has to be to work |
| 23:47.51 | g1powermac_apl | the shell hack is setup to setup your wpa wifi and setup ssh on the zipit automatically |
| 23:48.01 | g1powermac_apl | so it comes with a bunch of prebuilt binaries |
| 23:48.20 | g1powermac_apl | of course I don't have wpa here, so I need iwconfig |
| 23:48.30 | GPSFan | not really, by userland stuff is all dynamic libs. so will yours once you figure out how it all goes together. |
| 23:48.42 | GPSFan | s/by/my |
| 23:48.57 | g1powermac_apl | hmm |
| 23:50.38 | g1powermac_apl | oh in regards to that keyboard, one thing we gotta work on is the debounce stuff in the driver |
| 23:50.43 | g1powermac_apl | its pretty bad atm |
| 23:51.18 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-164-200.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 23:51.24 | g1powermac_apl | though in the main zipit software it works pretty good, so the driver must need some help |
| 23:51.34 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 23:51.39 | g1powermac_apl | wb prpplague |
| 23:51.51 | prpplague | seems my net problems have returned |
| 23:52.28 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 23:52.51 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Any idea when I will get a package? |
| 23:52.56 | GPSFan | I have 2 partitions on my sd card vfat which has / & /bin & /modules directories. in /bin is a busybox-static which is ussed to do all the commands before the rootswitch, and loadkeys. |
| 23:53.28 | g1powermac_apl | bah, its wayy too cold here in my basement lab, neeed heat to warm fingers. . . |
| 23:53.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy sorry no, i've been too swampped to get over to shipping |
| 23:53.29 | GPSFan | the other partition is ext2 which has my userland of all dynamically linked code. |
| 23:53.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy remind me early tomorrow |
| 23:53.40 | g1powermac_apl | GPSFan, ahh, interesting |
| 23:54.43 | GPSFan | once the rootswitch happens the sd ext2 partition is / |
| 23:56.06 | g1powermac_apl | interesting setup |
| 23:56.31 | GPSFan | it's a slight modification of the stuff in zipit_sd_load.zip |
| 23:56.38 | RobotGuy | GPSFan: What platform is that? |
| 23:56.44 | g1powermac_apl | right now I'm just playing with the one script that does sd loading |
| 23:56.53 | GPSFan | zipit2 PXA270 |
| 23:56.53 | g1powermac_apl | RobotGuy, the zipit |
