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| 00:32.43 | g1powermac_PB | ok, I think I got a plan. . . |
| 00:33.00 | g1powermac_PB | I need to get this on the zipit kernel: http://wiki.enneenne.com/index.php/PXA27x_UDC |
| 00:33.19 | g1powermac_PB | however, the latest stuff there is for the 2.6.22 kernel only |
| 00:33.26 | g1powermac_PB | and the zipit kernel is 2.6.21 |
| 00:34.04 | g1powermac_PB | so, anyone want to help with this? pretty please? :-) |
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| 00:43.05 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: Have you tried building kernel 2.6.25 for your platform? |
| 00:43.23 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: I can't replaced the kernel on the zipit |
| 00:43.38 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: You can't?? Why not? |
| 00:43.50 | g1powermac_PB | blame two things for that, no jtag/serial port, and no wifi support for that marvell chip |
| 00:44.09 | g1powermac_PB | only got binary drivers for that wifi chip atm |
| 00:44.24 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: It must not be the Libertas chipset then. |
| 00:44.45 | g1powermac_PB | well, its sorta libertas |
| 00:45.07 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: Wait a minute. Does the ZipIt has USB host? |
| 00:45.11 | g1powermac_PB | basically its one of the marvell chips that weren't supported in libertas yet |
| 00:45.20 | g1powermac_PB | not brought out |
| 00:45.25 | g1powermac_PB | at least to the expansion port |
| 00:45.59 | RobotGuy | I can't help then, because I don't know anything about the ZipIt, sorry. |
| 00:46.39 | GPSFan | g1powermac_apl: make sure you ping on drmikecrowe about a new kernel. or at least one with kexec so that a new(er) kernel can be started. |
| 00:46.55 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: that would be nice |
| 00:47.00 | RobotGuy | I probably won't have my Hammer until next week now. |
| 00:47.21 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: next time I see him, we all need to bug him :-) |
| 00:47.34 | g1powermac_PB | though conveniently he's been absent ;-) |
| 00:47.51 | GPSFan | according to prpplague the libertas driver should support gspi soon. most of the pieces are in place, lots of testing & debut left to do. |
| 00:48.27 | MonMotha | SPI wifi with an OSS driver in kernel? where do I sign up? |
| 00:48.48 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: yea, I've been asking him the status of that, though he hasn't kept up with it |
| 00:49.01 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: and I don't know where he's been reading the info about it |
| 00:49.44 | GPSFan | someone on the libertas ML posted the gspi firmware, and when compared to that from the z2, it was bit-for-bit identical. so it's now "out there" and the debugging can begin ;>) |
| 00:52.34 | g1powermac_PB | yup |
| 00:53.25 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: so to get usb gadget support on the zipit, we need to get this going: http://wiki.enneenne.com/index.php/PXA27x_UDC |
| 00:54.07 | g1powermac_PB | the interesting part is that its for 2.6.22 |
| 00:55.41 | RobotGuy | If it's identical, isn't there something illegal going on there? |
| 00:56.01 | GPSFan | hmmm, lots of stuff is untested, so just updating to 2.6.22 may not be enough, maybe backporting is a better bet. |
| 00:56.03 | g1powermac_PB | not sure how hard its going to be to get that going |
| 00:56.26 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: its iffy |
| 00:56.53 | GPSFan | RobotGuy: it was supposedly posted by someone from Marvell. BUT I have no direct knowledge, so I may be all wet. |
| 00:58.03 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: I emailed the guy who made that wiki to see if he'll make a 2.6.21 patch |
| 00:58.16 | RobotGuy | I am wondering if it would be worthwhile to get an iPAQ Rx3715 now. |
| 00:59.05 | GPSFan | RobotGuy: it's always worthwhile to get more/new stuff. it may be hazardous to other parts of your life though... |
| 00:59.30 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: hahah |
| 00:59.33 | RobotGuy | GPSFan: Yes, indeed, and I somehow think the person posting it won't be easily traced. |
| 00:59.34 | g1powermac_PB | so true, so true |
| 00:59.54 | GPSFan | cul... |
| 00:59.59 | g1powermac_PB | k |
| 01:00.09 | g1powermac_PB | waits for prpplague to get back |
| 01:04.12 | RobotGuy | There are a few RX3715's on eBAY now for $190.00 or so. |
| 01:04.24 | SpeedEvil | whWhy you want? |
| 01:04.38 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: The processor board inside. |
| 01:04.43 | RobotGuy | And display |
| 01:05.19 | RobotGuy | Of course, I might find it very difficult to open up a $200.00+ device/ |
| 01:05.51 | SpeedEvil | what processor? |
| 01:06.02 | RobotGuy | Samsung S3C2440A |
| 01:06.08 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 01:06.50 | SpeedEvil | wonders how many online sellers are clueful enough to notice that you opened it, desoldered the CPU, and returned it. |
| 01:07.14 | RobotGuy | I would want the entire board and display out of it. |
| 01:07.56 | RobotGuy | I am assuming for now that the case is not much larger than the board. |
| 01:08.07 | SpeedEvil | prolly not. |
| 01:08.13 | SpeedEvil | Unless the battery is full depth |
| 01:08.18 | RobotGuy | True |
| 01:08.26 | SpeedEvil | (not looked at hardware) |
| 01:08.27 | g1powermac_PB | SpeedEvil: hehe |
| 01:08.37 | RobotGuy | It does not look like that is the deal though. |
| 01:08.49 | g1powermac_PB | SpeedEvil: I've come close to doing that once |
| 01:08.56 | SpeedEvil | what're you hoping to do with it? |
| 01:09.16 | RobotGuy | Put Linux on it and put it on a robot, of course. :D |
| 01:09.25 | g1powermac_PB | heh |
| 01:09.39 | RobotGuy | <--- See my nick here.. :) |
| 01:09.57 | g1powermac_PB | nah, get many of them, link them together, and obtain world domination! bwahahahah ;-) |
| 01:10.30 | g1powermac_PB | though doing it with a swarm of robots would work just as well ;-) |
| 01:10.35 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: That is my plan, but taking over the world might take awhile to accomplish and I think I will settle for my own part of it. |
| 01:12.34 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: I have a project to design some RSRs (Really Small Robots) now. A larger robot will carry them and deploy them. |
| 01:12.34 | RobotGuy | ZigBee for mesh networking |
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| 01:13.25 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: ooo, sounds cool |
| 01:13.25 | RobotGuy | I think I like the idea of putting those SoDIMM form factor boards on robots.. Very small controller board. :D |
| 01:13.26 | g1powermac_PB | was thinking of doing something similar, but for a goal of multi-processing |
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| 01:13.50 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: How about cluster computing? |
| 01:13.50 | g1powermac_PB | thousands of small computers combined together |
| 01:13.50 | g1powermac_PB | exactly |
| 01:13.51 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: This is what I am about. :D |
| 01:14.24 | RobotGuy | If all goes well, my main robot will be able to carry at least three RSRs. |
| 01:14.24 | g1powermac_PB | actually, I did an independent study course once where I linked multiple 8051s together to produce a cellular automata |
| 01:14.33 | g1powermac_PB | was a really fun project |
| 01:14.52 | RobotGuy | I've already calibrated the arm length such that it can reach in and pick stuff off the cargo deck. |
| 01:15.14 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: Oooooooooooh, cool! Do you still have the project data? |
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| 01:15.30 | g1powermac_PB | yea, somewhere. . . |
| 01:15.42 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: I would sure like to have a look at that. |
| 01:16.08 | RobotGuy | If it's OK and you don't mind me using it in my project where applicable. |
| 01:16.19 | g1powermac_PB | sure |
| 01:16.50 | g1powermac_PB | I just stipulate you make sure you credit me in your project :-) |
| 01:16.56 | RobotGuy | If I can put an SoDIMM controller on an RSR, I can make it very small. |
| 01:17.13 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: I would never take credit away from you or anyone else. |
| 01:17.23 | RobotGuy | I don't believe in that sort of thing. |
| 01:17.31 | g1powermac_PB | k, good, good :-) |
| 01:18.24 | g1powermac_PB | man, its been forever since I even looked at this: http://www.g1powermac.com/pcommsforca.pdf |
| 01:18.35 | RobotGuy | I even keep credits where I use source code somebody else has written. If there isn't credit, I add it. |
| 01:18.59 | g1powermac_PB | http://www.g1powermac.com/pcomms_schematic.pdf |
| 01:19.37 | g1powermac_PB | I think those are the final revision |
| 01:19.41 | RobotGuy | Ooooooooooooooooo, shiny. :D If I had a bunch of S3C2440A SoDIMM type micros.. |
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| 01:20.16 | g1powermac_PB | even designed his own communication bus |
| 01:21.11 | RobotGuy | Wow. :) Impressive. |
| 01:21.20 | g1powermac_PB | can't believe it was almost two years ago |
| 01:21.26 | g1powermac_PB | man, time flies |
| 01:21.32 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: The info is timeless though. |
| 01:21.45 | g1powermac_PB | yup, yup |
| 01:22.12 | RobotGuy | What is the computing power in MIPS of Hammer? |
| 01:22.19 | RobotGuy | I forget |
| 01:22.33 | RobotGuy | digs out datasheet |
| 01:23.21 | RobotGuy | I believe the Transmeta Crusoe started out as based on the Transputer concept. |
| 01:23.35 | g1powermac_PB | loves the transputer concept |
| 01:23.51 | g1powermac_PB | I got some hard to find dated books on the transputer and occam |
| 01:24.03 | RobotGuy | Processor bus can be replaced by ZigBee or WiFi. |
| 01:24.49 | g1powermac_PB | mmm, doing a wireless ProPBus. . .that'd be interesting |
| 01:25.21 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: Swarm robotics. :D |
| 01:25.36 | RobotGuy | TCP/IP Sockets |
| 01:25.39 | g1powermac_PB | ooo, got some code up there too: http://www.g1powermac.com/propbus.txt |
| 01:25.50 | g1powermac_PB | unknow if this is actually usable |
| 01:25.56 | g1powermac_PB | *unknown |
| 01:26.17 | g1powermac_PB | but with all those comments, its prolly the final version |
| 01:26.44 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: Algorithms can be coded in any language. :D |
| 01:27.09 | RobotGuy | I've done some of the nastiest conversions - AppleSoft to Apple Pascal and BASIC to C. |
| 01:27.23 | g1powermac_PB | very true, more meant if this one had a flaw in the algorithm |
| 01:27.33 | g1powermac_PB | I remember I had some deadlock issues |
| 01:28.06 | g1powermac_PB | euh, man, that's nasty |
| 01:32.56 | g1powermac_PB | man, I really put a lot of info in that code |
| 01:33.04 | g1powermac_PB | forgot how complicated this project was |
| 01:34.55 | g1powermac_PB | I still got the breadboard sitting in the basement for this thing |
| 01:37.04 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: lemme know if you need some clarification on some stuff, the main paper wasn't really written to be read outside of the course |
| 01:37.28 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: Cool, I will. Thanks. |
| 01:39.42 | g1powermac_PB | ya welcome |
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| 01:49.35 | g1powermac_apl | ok, couldn't resist trying one more thing ;-) |
| 01:53.04 | RobotGuy | It is usually that 'one more thing' that makes it all work. :) |
| 01:53.32 | g1powermac_apl | or its the one thing that keeps you up all night instead of calling it earlier ;-) |
| 02:03.09 | g1powermac_apl | sigh, does anyone know how to use git? |
| 02:03.56 | g1powermac_apl | is really starting to despise all these different version control systems |
| 02:03.56 | g1powermac_apl | cvs, svn, git, bah |
| 02:04.59 | MonMotha | they all have strengths and weaknesses |
| 02:05.55 | g1powermac_apl | yea, the main weakness is utter complication ;-) |
| 02:06.18 | MonMotha | actually, some of them quite simplify things over others |
| 02:06.24 | MonMotha | svn is in many ways simpler than cvs |
| 02:06.42 | MonMotha | I used to like CVS, but then I got to using SVN and I kinda like it better now |
| 02:07.03 | g1powermac_apl | the only one that I actually have half way decent knowledge of (well, if I got a reference page in front of me) is cvs |
| 02:07.36 | g1powermac_apl | now my thing with git is simple, I just want to do an anonymous checkout like I'd do with cvs. . .but have no clue how to do that |
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| 02:12.45 | robbat2 | g1powermac_apl, git clone git://${HOST}/${PATH} |
| 02:12.50 | robbat2 | just like cvs pserver |
| 02:13.03 | g1powermac_apl | robbat2, I did that, but its asking for a password. . . |
| 02:13.30 | robbat2 | that's something in the setup of your anongit serving then |
| 02:13.48 | g1powermac_apl | http://gitweb.enneenne.com/?p=pxa27x_udc;a=summary |
| 02:13.53 | g1powermac_apl | thats what I want to git |
| 02:14.02 | g1powermac_apl | maybe you might have better luck |
| 02:14.51 | robbat2 | git clone git://gitweb.enneenne.com/pxa27x_udc |
| 02:15.23 | robbat2 | weird. i can do ls-remote on there |
| 02:15.26 | robbat2 | but not clone |
| 02:16.03 | g1powermac_apl | sigh |
| 02:16.12 | g1powermac_apl | so no hope in getting that stuff? |
| 02:16.35 | robbat2 | ah, they are running an older version of git it looks like |
| 02:16.40 | robbat2 | i wanted to pass --depth |
| 02:16.42 | robbat2 | to test |
| 02:16.52 | robbat2 | just use the full command above |
| 02:16.54 | robbat2 | it does work |
| 02:16.55 | robbat2 | it's just big |
| 02:17.11 | g1powermac_apl | whats the full command? |
| 02:17.16 | robbat2 | git clone git://gitweb.enneenne.com/pxa27x_udc |
| 02:17.26 | g1powermac_apl | tried it here, it doesn't work |
| 02:17.43 | robbat2 | that doe work here |
| 02:17.44 | g1powermac_apl | fatal: Unable to look up gitweb.enneenne.com (port <none>) (Servname not supported for ai_socktype) |
| 02:17.44 | g1powermac_apl | fetch-pack from 'git://gitweb.enneenne.com:/pxa27x_udc' failed. |
| 02:17.55 | robbat2 | oh, your git isn't built with CURL |
| 02:18.02 | g1powermac_apl | bah, missed the ; |
| 02:18.28 | g1powermac_apl | it works now, after I removed the ':' :-) |
| 02:19.08 | g1powermac_apl | RobotGuy, you see? its keeping me up all night ;P |
| 02:19.27 | g1powermac_apl | robbat2, thanks for the help :-) |
| 02:20.01 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: I think it is a concious choice keeping you up all night.. :P |
| 02:20.20 | g1powermac_apl | . . .maybe ;-) |
| 02:21.12 | g1powermac_apl | wonders how hard it would be to rip the pxa270 udc drivers out of the 2.6.22 kernel and stick it in the patched up zipit 2.6.21 kernel |
| 02:22.54 | g1powermac_apl | I guess I could do diffs of the usb system and see what I get |
| 02:38.22 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_apl: It depends whether one or both were built with versioning on modules |
| 02:39.46 | *** part/#edev likewise (n=likewise@82-171-51-231.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 02:41.36 | RobotGuy | I don't know if that has any bearing on this though. |
| 02:50.52 | RobotGuy | Those SoDIMM microcontrollers would make a very nice distributed computing environment for several things I can think of. |
| 02:51.50 | g1powermac_PB | ya |
| 02:56.24 | g1powermac_PB | gnight all |
| 02:56.58 | RobotGuy | starts putting 2 and 2 together and is almost getting 4 now. |
| 03:11.22 | SpeedEvil | That desn't explain land-line phones |
| 03:11.24 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 03:18.02 | RobotGuy | "land-line" is a term that is going out of style. |
| 03:18.38 | RobotGuy | wonders if those SoDIMM modules prpplague spoke of earlier are using the sa-1110 processor. |
| 03:19.59 | ds2 | SO-DIMM? that's huge ;) |
| 03:20.22 | RobotGuy | He mentioned 60 pins |
| 03:20.47 | ds2 | running Linux? |
| 03:21.14 | RobotGuy | I think ones like http://www.elinux.org/upload/3/34/M5920.jpg |
| 03:21.45 | RobotGuy | If they are SA-1110 then they can run Linux. |
| 03:21.58 | ds2 | that module looks big |
| 03:22.11 | RobotGuy | It looks like more than 60 pins. |
| 03:22.20 | ds2 | might be 60 on each side? |
| 03:22.32 | RobotGuy | SO-DIMM are only on one edge I believe. |
| 03:22.42 | RobotGuy | Like a backplane board |
| 03:22.55 | RobotGuy | Well what plugs into a backplane |
| 03:22.57 | ds2 | *shrug* |
| 03:23.18 | ds2 | it is easy enough to fabricate a board |
| 03:23.27 | RobotGuy | Same style as PCI and other boards. Edge connector on one edge of board. |
| 03:23.37 | RobotGuy | ds2: For you, perhaps. |
| 03:24.02 | RobotGuy | I've only made my own PCBs once, and that was in High School. |
| 03:24.29 | ds2 | for the sake of discussion, what would you want in a board? |
| 03:24.29 | RobotGuy | I need to look at gEDA. |
| 03:24.31 | ds2 | and what size? |
| 03:25.25 | RobotGuy | ds2: S3C2440A, 128 MB RAM, 64 or 128 MB Flash, access to ALL peripherals on the chip, includng the camera interface. |
| 03:25.27 | MonMotha | having PCBs made professionally isn't hard and isn't too expensive |
| 03:25.42 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: I know, but first you have to design a board. |
| 03:25.49 | ds2 | RobotGuy: any reason you insist on a S3C2440A? |
| 03:26.04 | MonMotha | you can get 5 (identical) 60 sq in panels made (in the USA, by people who speak english) for about $200 shipped |
| 03:26.17 | MonMotha | if you want smaller stuff in lower quantities, there are services like batchpcb |
| 03:26.25 | ds2 | uh... in the US? where? |
| 03:26.27 | SpeedEvil | debates the 'speak english' part. |
| 03:26.31 | RobotGuy | ds2: TCT uses Samsung, and it's reasonably fast (up to 405 MHz) with a camera interface and nice peripheral selection. |
| 03:26.32 | MonMotha | 4pcb's $33/ea special |
| 03:26.53 | ds2 | RobotGuy: one drawback of the Samsungs is they are mostly ARMv4 based |
| 03:26.55 | MonMotha | $33/ea for 4, +1 free, $50 panel fee (if you don't panelize, they dont charge that), $10 handling, ground shipping |
| 03:27.06 | RobotGuy | BatchPCB does them less expensively if you don't care when the boards arrive. |
| 03:27.21 | ds2 | ah those... thought they refuse to let you do multiple copies on one panel? |
| 03:27.30 | ds2 | or did i confuse them with someone else? |
| 03:27.31 | MonMotha | ds2: if you pay the panel fee, they don't care what you do |
| 03:27.38 | ds2 | OH that's the catch |
| 03:27.43 | MonMotha | if you don't pay the panel fee, it has to be single design, single copy |
| 03:27.51 | MonMotha | the panel fee is a flat $50 for the order |
| 03:27.58 | ds2 | gotcha |
| 03:28.13 | ds2 | there is a german place that will do it cheap and they don't care how you do it |
| 03:28.21 | ds2 | think their mfg is in e. germany |
| 03:29.33 | ds2 | now if someone could assembly BGA's for a cheap price... |
| 03:29.42 | MonMotha | yeah, good luck... |
| 03:30.01 | ds2 | nonBGA ARM's are rare :( |
| 03:30.16 | MonMotha | Atmel and NXP have some ARM7s |
| 03:30.25 | MonMotha | there's a ARM926EJS from Atmel in QFP |
| 03:30.30 | MonMotha | no LCD controller, though |
| 03:30.30 | RobotGuy | ds2: For my uses, I think they are just fine. However, I am waiting for these http://wiki.virtualcogs.com/index.php?title=VCMX310 to become available. |
| 03:31.26 | ds2 | the NXP's I see don't have MMU's |
| 03:31.30 | RobotGuy | NXP has quite a selection of ARM7 |
| 03:31.44 | ds2 | is there another Atmel besides the RM9200 that is QFP and has an MMU? |
| 03:31.53 | MonMotha | 91SAM9260 |
| 03:31.54 | RobotGuy | ds2: If they had an MMU and external memory bus they could probably run Linux. |
| 03:31.57 | MonMotha | or the 9261, one of them |
| 03:32.04 | MonMotha | I think it's the 9260 |
| 03:32.09 | ds2 | RobotGuy: the RM9200 has it all |
| 03:32.09 | MonMotha | it's in both BGA and QFP |
| 03:32.26 | ds2 | nice, I got to remember it next time |
| 03:32.28 | RobotGuy | ds2: That is an ARM9 though. |
| 03:32.39 | MonMotha | the 9260 is also an ARM9 |
| 03:32.44 | MonMotha | I've not seen ARM7s with MMU |
| 03:33.01 | ds2 | last time I looked, laying out a RM9200 needs a 4layer board and 4layer boards were not cheap :/ |
| 03:33.08 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: I don't think there are any. I think that's one major distinction between ARM7 and ARM9 |
| 03:33.09 | ds2 | MonMotha: the Cirrus Logic one in the WEbPal |
| 03:33.13 | ds2 | WebPal |
| 03:33.17 | MonMotha | I can't guarantee that the 9260 won't need a 4-layer |
| 03:33.23 | MonMotha | it's a 0.5mm QFP, so pretty tight |
| 03:33.28 | MonMotha | that's an ARM7? |
| 03:33.35 | ds2 | yeah the WebPal is a ARM7 |
| 03:33.39 | MonMotha | hum, interesting |
| 03:33.42 | MonMotha | that CPU is EOL, though |
| 03:33.48 | ds2 | yeah :( |
| 03:33.55 | MonMotha | well, it kinda sucked in that it lacked JTAG |
| 03:34.10 | ds2 | CL had some ARM's in QFP but I couldn't find places to buy them |
| 03:34.21 | MonMotha | the Atmel parts are readily available |
| 03:34.25 | RobotGuy | NXP has ARM7 in QFP |
| 03:34.28 | MonMotha | Digi-Key has the, and Atmel will sample them |
| 03:34.29 | ds2 | RobotGuy: ARM9 is good, ARM11 is better.... Cortex is Nice... :)~~~~~~~ |
| 03:34.41 | MonMotha | yeah, NXP has tons of ARM7s in QFP, but none have MMUs |
| 03:34.42 | ds2 | yes, I know the Atmel parts are easy to get |
| 03:34.43 | RobotGuy | Like the LPC2138 and LPC2148 I think. |
| 03:34.59 | MonMotha | ds2: as a warning, some of the peripherals on the Atmel ARMs are...difficult |
| 03:35.12 | MonMotha | the API is wonky and they may not always do what you'd expect |
| 03:35.20 | MonMotha | fortunately, Linux has drivers for almost everything |
| 03:35.22 | ds2 | MonMotha: which ones? The RM9200 seemed pretty sane |
| 03:35.27 | MonMotha | so most of that is hidden |
| 03:35.30 | RobotGuy | I like my LPC2148 boards, but I really want an LPC2378 or LPC2468 board. |
| 03:35.45 | MonMotha | well, for example, the I2C controller has an inherent race condition |
| 03:35.49 | ds2 | I had a RM9200 design all drawn up but the cost for a 4layer baord killed it :( |
| 03:35.56 | MonMotha | the SPI controller has several issues, but all can be worked aorund |
| 03:36.14 | MonMotha | ds2: 4 layers are $66/ea (minimum 4, plus one free) at 4PCB |
| 03:36.21 | RobotGuy | I chose then LPC2148 because the board was reasonably priced and it has two I2C interfaces. |
| 03:36.31 | ds2 | yes, that's ~$250 |
| 03:36.40 | MonMotha | yes, it is |
| 03:36.43 | MonMotha | but that's not bad |
| 03:36.44 | ds2 | plus parts it makes it about $400 for one |
| 03:36.56 | MonMotha | $250 is at least in the realm of reason |
| 03:37.03 | MonMotha | just make sure you get it right! :) |
| 03:37.05 | ds2 | a gumstix is about $200...most boards run about $200 complete ready to run |
| 03:37.19 | ds2 | get it right or make all the errors on top and bottom ;) |
| 03:37.20 | MonMotha | well, what I do is find somebody else who wants one or two |
| 03:37.25 | MonMotha | heh, yeah |
| 03:37.53 | MonMotha | most of my one-offs end up with plenty of green wires |
| 03:37.53 | RobotGuy | Note: The final design for SledgeHammer has not been set in stone yet. |
| 03:38.05 | ds2 | RobotGuy: maybe you get enuff robot guys together to do a custom board |
| 03:38.29 | RobotGuy | ds2: I am working on that. :D |
| 03:38.41 | ds2 | :) |
| 03:38.43 | RobotGuy | Somebody will have to design the board though. |
| 03:39.05 | ds2 | RobotGuy: I could take a shot at it... maybe cost of stuff + credit ;) |
| 03:39.06 | MonMotha | ds2: I make custom thingies all the time. I just find one or two others who want one |
| 03:39.12 | MonMotha | brings the cost down to "reasonable" |
| 03:39.17 | MonMotha | and hey, it does exactly what you want |
| 03:39.28 | SpeedEvil | MonMotha: if the first one works |
| 03:39.35 | RobotGuy | ds2: How much would it be to design something with my basic specs? |
| 03:39.38 | ds2 | MonMotha: reasonable prehaps but still way more then modifying a COTS item |
| 03:39.45 | MonMotha | I've never had them totally unsalvagable |
| 03:40.01 | MonMotha | ds2: true, but also a lot cleaner if you have an application in mind |
| 03:40.02 | ds2 | RobotGuy: if you pay someone, the design part is going to be expensive |
| 03:40.11 | RobotGuy | ds2: I know that. |
| 03:40.20 | MonMotha | designing simple PCBs isn't hard |
| 03:40.31 | MonMotha | complicated stuff takes some experience and a lot of time |
| 03:40.35 | RobotGuy | Which is why I will probably never be able to do it. The things I would design! |
| 03:40.37 | ds2 | RobotGuy: the assembly is the killer unless you can avoid BGA :( |
| 03:40.53 | RobotGuy | BGA is EVIL |
| 03:40.56 | ds2 | what I really want to try is a project with an Actel FPGA + an ARM core |
| 03:41.15 | MonMotha | yeah...I dislike that many devices are BGA only these days |
| 03:41.33 | MonMotha | I will give Xilinx credit on that one, actually |
| 03:41.39 | MonMotha | they have some reasonably large devices in QFP |
| 03:41.52 | RobotGuy | I would love a board that has a Xilinx FPGA and an ARM9 like the S3C2440A. KNJN has boards that have ARM7 and FPGA. |
| 03:42.23 | MonMotha | if there's a market for this stuff (and that can be shown), it's possible my company could do some design and sell the boards as development platforms |
| 03:42.27 | RobotGuy | I so want the Xilinx Spartan 3E/Microblaze development kit. |
| 03:43.11 | ds2 | Xilinx are power hungry, the actels can run on battery |
| 03:43.16 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: They would probably have to see some pretty high numbers to do that though. |
| 03:43.34 | MonMotha | not really |
| 03:43.51 | RobotGuy | ds2: Does Actel have Linux based tools that work on different distros? I know they have Libero, but I've never been able to get it to install. |
| 03:43.58 | MonMotha | ~200 or so units could make it feasible if people were willing to pay reasonable prices |
| 03:44.04 | ds2 | As long as there is no hard deadlines, I wouldn't mind doing it for cost+credit (cost == cost to fab board, cost to for setup, etc) |
| 03:44.11 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: What is a reasonable price? |
| 03:44.19 | MonMotha | RobotGuy: depends mostly on what's on it |
| 03:44.20 | ds2 | RobotGuy: I didn't talk that long with them |
| 03:44.55 | MonMotha | I'm also willing to do development personally (sadly, I don't have access to my awesome CAD software at work for for-profit stuff) for reasonable rates |
| 03:45.02 | MonMotha | but my time is not entirely free |
| 03:45.24 | MonMotha | if you want it done on a timeframe, then I know a company you can call up :) |
| 03:45.38 | ds2 | heh.. deadlines + warrentees == $$$ |
| 03:46.00 | MonMotha | indeed |
| 03:46.40 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: Something like an S3C2440A, 128 MB RAM/128 MB Flash, all peripheral interfaces brought out to pins or edge connector, 0.1" spacing mandatory, SD/MMC card slot (max speed interface), USB Host and Client. |
| 03:47.03 | RobotGuy | I'd like to see something like that compete with the Blackfin Camera Board. |
| 03:47.05 | ds2 | RobotGuy: what size board? |
| 03:47.47 | MonMotha | RobotGuy: those are tight pitch BGAs, which will bump the PCB to non-standard design rules |
| 03:47.55 | MonMotha | other than that, your specs are fairly simple |
| 03:48.02 | RobotGuy | This http://www.surveyor.com/blackfin/ size or smaller |
| 03:48.27 | MonMotha | that's kinda tiny actually, which isn't a problem, but it makes layout take longer |
| 03:48.48 | ds2 | I don't think you can bring out everything on 0.1" connectors on that size |
| 03:48.55 | MonMotha | yeah, that'll also be a problem |
| 03:49.01 | MonMotha | 0.05" perhaps |
| 03:49.05 | MonMotha | or maybe even 2mm |
| 03:49.07 | RobotGuy | Remember, all processor signals have to be accessible in some way for add-ons. I prefer stacking. |
| 03:49.32 | ds2 | heh... you really mean 0.050? not 1.2mm? ;) |
| 03:49.32 | MonMotha | you could use one of the 1mm stack connectors or something and a carrier board |
| 03:49.44 | RobotGuy | Use 3 sides of the board and/or double row connectors. |
| 03:49.46 | MonMotha | ds2: when I say inches, I mean inches |
| 03:49.48 | MonMotha | when I say mm, I man mm |
| 03:49.50 | MonMotha | *mean |
| 03:49.55 | ds2 | just making sure |
| 03:49.57 | MonMotha | 1in = 2.54cm, to infinite precision |
| 03:50.21 | MonMotha | even with 3 sides and double row connectors, there's a lot of signals on modern CPUs |
| 03:50.36 | MonMotha | the CPU local bus alone is usually at least 70 signals |
| 03:50.37 | RobotGuy | For stacking, right angle connectors for the processor pins would have to be used. |
| 03:50.47 | RobotGuy | No,wait, wrong. |
| 03:50.48 | ds2 | sounds like you are really asking for a breakout board + memory + onboard power regulator |
| 03:51.10 | RobotGuy | ds2: That's basically what Hammer and SledgeHammer are. |
| 03:51.29 | ds2 | RobotGuy: no, they reduce the number pins and have more compromises |
| 03:51.44 | RobotGuy | ds2: True, but I want ALL the pins accessible. :D |
| 03:52.24 | RobotGuy | If it could hold a battery for the RTC, that would be cool but not necessary. |
| 03:52.27 | MonMotha | you can't have "tiny" and "all signals" and "0.1in headers" all at the same time |
| 03:52.35 | MonMotha | cripes, man, RTC batteries tend to be, um, large |
| 03:52.37 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: How big then? |
| 03:52.50 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: I said not necessary for that reason. :) |
| 03:52.58 | ds2 | there is a reason they abandoned the DIP-40 package for processors :/ |
| 03:53.09 | MonMotha | ds2: I have an old 8051 in 64-DIP :) |
| 03:53.12 | MonMotha | it's huge |
| 03:53.22 | ds2 | I've seen 68K's like that |
| 03:53.30 | RobotGuy | SledgeHammer is 80 pins in its present form. |
| 03:53.37 | MonMotha | yeah, they used to have 68k in 64-DIP |
| 03:53.42 | ds2 | at the clock rates, the DRAM lines would probally be too long due to the bonding leads ;) |
| 03:53.50 | MonMotha | heh, probably |
| 03:54.03 | MonMotha | you'd certainly have to take bond length into account when matching trace lengths |
| 03:54.13 | MonMotha | hopefully there would be no transmission line type issues |
| 03:54.17 | RobotGuy | How bit for .1" spaced stacking pins and all signals? |
| 03:54.25 | ds2 | RobotGuy: why do you need all the lines available? |
| 03:54.53 | RobotGuy | ds2: Because they will be needed for interfacing add-on modules. :) Assuming stacking for now. |
| 03:55.04 | MonMotha | if you're willing to make it more expensive, dual-row 0.1" surface mount headers could pretty much cover the bottom, but that won't make it usable on breadboards |
| 03:55.13 | MonMotha | why do you need 0.1" for this? |
| 03:55.20 | MonMotha | use 0.05" or 1mm |
| 03:55.21 | ds2 | RobotGuy: I don't see why you would need, say the SD/SDIO lines broken out if there is a SD socket on board |
| 03:55.40 | RobotGuy | ds2: True on that. |
| 03:55.55 | RobotGuy | I might want to add a second SD/MMC slot though. :D |
| 03:56.15 | RobotGuy | It's all about maximum flexibility. :D |
| 03:56.54 | MonMotha | if you're talking about stacking it with custom modules, there's no need for 0.1" |
| 03:57.15 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: Perhaps, but I have to be able to solder the connectors. |
| 03:57.24 | MonMotha | you could perhaps bring the mor euseful signals out to 0.1" for tinkering and keep a smaller pitch connector for more complex stuff |
| 03:57.25 | ds2 | they do make modules |
| 03:57.29 | MonMotha | 1mm is readily solderable... |
| 03:57.37 | MonMotha | 0.75mm is easy |
| 03:57.47 | MonMotha | 0.65 isn't bad at lal |
| 03:57.53 | MonMotha | 0.5mm is hard :) |
| 03:58.04 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: What would you consider more complex stuff? |
| 03:58.18 | ds2 | prpplague don't like them but: |
| 03:58.21 | MonMotha | anything that needs access to the full CPU bus |
| 03:58.22 | ds2 | http://www.logicpd.com/products/devkit/ti/zoom_omap3_development_kit |
| 03:58.29 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: I'm not sure -I- could solder 1mm |
| 03:58.32 | ds2 | module is the yellow box and it exposes most lines |
| 03:59.11 | MonMotha | I can't help you if you can't solder.... |
| 03:59.14 | MonMotha | 1mm isn't really that bad |
| 03:59.27 | MonMotha | I can solder 1mm stuff with a shadio rack iron if I have to |
| 03:59.45 | MonMotha | it just takes some practice |
| 03:59.56 | ds2 | 1mm is a bit harder then doing a D-connector |
| 04:00.01 | MonMotha | well, yes |
| 04:00.05 | ds2 | they are roughly the same pitch except they are not offset |
| 04:00.05 | MonMotha | but 1mm isn't too bad |
| 04:00.21 | RobotGuy | Oooooh, shiny. :) I bet they want a lot for the module. |
| 04:00.24 | MonMotha | there are 1mm pitch connectors that ARE offset |
| 04:00.33 | MonMotha | SMD with the leads sticking out on opposing sides |
| 04:00.41 | MonMotha | limits you to single row, though |
| 04:00.56 | RobotGuy | I can solder just fine. :P I just don't know if I could solder 1mm |
| 04:01.02 | ds2 | 1mm is just a bit tighter then 0.050 |
| 04:01.48 | RobotGuy | ds2: I have no reference. |
| 04:02.09 | ds2 | 1/2 of the 0.1 pitch you are used to |
| 04:02.38 | RobotGuy | I thought pitch was on trees.. |
| 04:02.48 | ds2 | =) |
| 04:03.24 | RobotGuy | Where can I see a picture of .1" 1mm, etc next to each other? |
| 04:03.44 | MonMotha | I like the Hirose FX2 connector for these kinds of things |
| 04:03.50 | ds2 | can't think of one |
| 04:04.08 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: If that's as small as the ones on Gumstix, no thanks. |
| 04:04.21 | ds2 | heh |
| 04:04.21 | MonMotha | FX2 is 0.05in, through-hole |
| 04:04.36 | RobotGuy | I might be able to manage that. |
| 04:04.41 | ds2 | ewww through hole |
| 04:05.16 | RobotGuy | I have a 0.4mm tip for my soldering iron. |
| 04:05.18 | MonMotha | ds2: easier to solder for many people, and very stable mechanically |
| 04:05.28 | MonMotha | what is it with people and tiny iron tips? |
| 04:05.44 | ds2 | once you get the hang of SMD, it is so much easier to solder |
| 04:05.45 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: I was planning to try some QFPs. |
| 04:05.52 | MonMotha | my tip is like 2.5mm wide. I solder 0.65mm QFPs with it just fine |
| 04:05.53 | ds2 | SMD don't wick away the solder onto the other side |
| 04:05.56 | MonMotha | 0.5mm is a bit tough |
| 04:06.02 | MonMotha | ds2: I agree, I prefer SMD |
| 04:06.13 | MonMotha | but for this, a through-hole may be nice |
| 04:06.24 | RobotGuy | I've never tried anything smaller than .1" |
| 04:06.28 | MonMotha | tihs particular connector is really good for repeated cycling |
| 04:06.48 | RobotGuy | Insertion and removal? |
| 04:06.55 | MonMotha | yes |
| 04:07.02 | MonMotha | these are a stagger hole pattern, too |
| 04:07.14 | RobotGuy | Do you have a digikey part number for that FX2 connector? |
| 04:07.16 | MonMotha | 0.05" center-center on two axes, stagger |
| 04:07.28 | MonMotha | http://www.hirose.co.jp/cataloge_hp/e57220088.pdf is the series datasheet |
| 04:07.42 | MonMotha | H10590-ND is a part in the series from Digi-Key |
| 04:07.49 | RobotGuy | I want to be sure I am looking at what you are talking about. |
| 04:08.25 | MonMotha | hum, looks like it's available in SMD, too |
| 04:08.32 | ds2 | aren't these used for some version of SCSI? |
| 04:08.54 | MonMotha | ds2: that might be the "SCA" type connector used for SCSI 2/3 hot swap sleds |
| 04:09.02 | RobotGuy | Spendy. Socket?? |
| 04:09.26 | MonMotha | FX2 is also available in a ribbon cable mount version |
| 04:09.28 | MonMotha | so you can cable things up |
| 04:09.33 | RobotGuy | Cool |
| 04:09.46 | RobotGuy | Is there a compatible socket too then? |
| 04:09.49 | ds2 | cables? trying to get someone to hang themselves? ;) |
| 04:10.02 | RobotGuy | I just trip myself with cables. |
| 04:10.23 | RobotGuy | I am ordering from DigiKey in a couple days. |
| 04:10.24 | ds2 | high speed signals + long cables + beginner == trouble |
| 04:10.33 | MonMotha | RobotGuy: Digi-Key carries most of the FX2 series |
| 04:10.48 | MonMotha | ds2: yes, but it's handy to have the option in the connector series |
| 04:10.50 | RobotGuy | I want the exact parts you are talking about. |
| 04:10.55 | MonMotha | the one thing it is not is cheap |
| 04:11.15 | MonMotha | you're looking at $3.50/connector even in "few thousand" quantities |
| 04:11.29 | RobotGuy | I want to order one male and one female FX2 |
| 04:11.29 | MonMotha | perhaps $2-2.5 if you have a real account with a distributor |
| 04:11.38 | RobotGuy | I don't |
| 04:12.24 | RobotGuy | Remember, I order in single or very small quantities most of the time. |
| 04:12.42 | MonMotha | H10626-ND would be a mate to the one I gave you |
| 04:13.00 | MonMotha | in single quantity, these are about $5-9, depending on connector size |
| 04:13.03 | MonMotha | and that's for each half |
| 04:13.06 | MonMotha | like I said, not overly cheap |
| 04:13.11 | MonMotha | but they are very good connectors |
| 04:13.13 | *** join/#edev prblaes (n=prblaes@rescomp-07-112141.Stanford.EDU) |
| 04:13.29 | RobotGuy | That's a bit over $14.00 in two connectors for me. |
| 04:13.51 | RobotGuy | I need to get a visual on what you are talking about though. |
| 04:13.53 | MonMotha | you could get smaller ones |
| 04:13.55 | MonMotha | those are kinda big |
| 04:13.58 | ds2 | am I the only one that seem to have 70% of a personal project budget goto connectors? |
| 04:14.22 | RobotGuy | ds2: I'll let you know when I complete a project. |
| 04:14.25 | SpeedEvil | connectors can be expensive. |
| 04:14.42 | MonMotha | H10619-ND and H10583-ND are a mating pair of 20 contact connectors in FX2 |
| 04:14.42 | ds2 | RobotGuy: heh |
| 04:14.43 | RobotGuy | If I can solder them, anyone should be able to. |
| 04:14.46 | MonMotha | about $4.50-$5 each |
| 04:15.07 | MonMotha | and no, in most cases a connector is the most expensive line on my personal project BOMs other than the big micro |
| 04:15.30 | MonMotha | it's that way on some of the stuff at work, too, though sometimes the connectors go WAY down when we get quotes in from our distributors |
| 04:15.46 | RobotGuy | Any idea of what something like this would cost to fabricate? |
| 04:15.56 | RobotGuy | The board |
| 04:16.17 | ds2 | for < 10, I'd guess around $300-$400 each |
| 04:16.32 | MonMotha | H10565-ND is even cheaper H10610-ND (smaller stack height) |
| 04:16.34 | RobotGuy | Say if those FX2 connectors are used (a solderable size). |
| 04:17.00 | MonMotha | well, raw 4 layer PCBs are going to be about $500 or so for a small lot (like 4-5) |
| 04:17.04 | MonMotha | so about $100 each for the bare PCB |
| 04:17.08 | RobotGuy | ds2: Too high. |
| 04:17.15 | MonMotha | that's the way it is |
| 04:17.23 | MonMotha | PCBs are all setup fees |
| 04:17.35 | RobotGuy | Sux to be me. |
| 04:18.08 | ds2 | PCB costs can be worked around (asia, etc) -- the BGA is what i can't find a way around |
| 04:18.45 | MonMotha | even if you offshore, there's something of a floor on PCB costs |
| 04:19.03 | ds2 | through an aggreggator can help reduce the setup |
| 04:19.17 | MonMotha | yes |
| 04:19.29 | RobotGuy | DIPs have pretty much disappeared, but there are still some interesting chips available, and QFP/QFN will probably end up going to BGA except for the very small < 100 pin chips. |
| 04:19.45 | MonMotha | 144 seems a common QFP pin count these days |
| 04:19.49 | MonMotha | or less, of course |
| 04:20.01 | MonMotha | more than 144 is usually BGA, though you still see QFP up to 208 |
| 04:20.25 | RobotGuy | TI has a lot of QFP/QFN up to 208. |
| 04:20.36 | ds2 | sometimes the QFP versions don't bring out all the pins :/ |
| 04:21.00 | MonMotha | true |
| 04:21.45 | RobotGuy | Assuming for now, that all the costs to fabricate 20 boards were taken care of, what would it cost to build the boards? |
| 04:22.13 | MonMotha | with a fine pitch BGA like that on them? assembly costs are going to be about $100-200 per board |
| 04:22.16 | MonMotha | plus the parts themselves |
| 04:22.24 | MonMotha | and 20 isn't enough to get much in the way of "volume discounts" |
| 04:22.57 | RobotGuy | OK, let's go up a bit then at 50 and 100 for complete board fabrication and building the boards. |
| 04:23.02 | RobotGuy | Including parts |
| 04:23.07 | MonMotha | 100 enters the realm of possibility |
| 04:23.21 | ds2 | that's the high end of a protorun |
| 04:23.25 | RobotGuy | That includes board design cost |
| 04:23.34 | MonMotha | that's a couple trays worth of micros, which some distributors will give you a nod on if you have an existing account |
| 04:23.50 | RobotGuy | I have NO account anywhere with distributors. |
| 04:23.56 | MonMotha | then you sir, are screwed |
| 04:24.02 | ds2 | that usually works better if you look like there will be a larger sales in the future |
| 04:24.05 | MonMotha | you'll end up buying them from digi-key |
| 04:24.31 | RobotGuy | OK, my project is doomed then. |
| 04:24.37 | MonMotha | ds2: or you can tie it into a larger project where it can drive sales of a higher volume itm |
| 04:24.44 | MonMotha | we have that on one of our current projects |
| 04:25.12 | ds2 | MonMotha: you must have a good purchasing person to negotiate that sort of stuff |
| 04:25.17 | RobotGuy | I'll end up having to by an existing board. |
| 04:25.33 | RobotGuy | s/by/buy/ |
| 04:26.13 | ds2 | RobotGuy: what is your target price range? |
| 04:26.24 | RobotGuy | ds2: Per board? |
| 04:26.39 | ds2 | yeah |
| 04:26.53 | RobotGuy | $200.00 - $300.00 |
| 04:27.51 | MonMotha | ds2: he does a decent job, and our account rep is nice |
| 04:28.14 | MonMotha | the prices still reflect lower volumes, but he'll try to beat digi-key's price even in low volume, for example |
| 04:28.27 | MonMotha | especially if he thinks it'll take off or drive volume of something else |
| 04:28.56 | ds2 | RobotGuy: that might be doable but it'll have to be a nonBGA part |
| 04:29.10 | ds2 | might have to grow to the size of an index card |
| 04:29.25 | RobotGuy | ds2: That severely limits the choice of processor, like no Samsung. |
| 04:29.32 | ds2 | and might have to be a smaller part that'll fit on a 2 layer board |
| 04:29.41 | ds2 | RobotGuy: that's no big deal |
| 04:29.48 | MonMotha | there's plenty of ARMs out there in QFP |
| 04:29.53 | ds2 | I wonder if the AVR32's come in QFP |
| 04:29.54 | MonMotha | if you want MMU, it's a little limited, but there are options |
| 04:29.59 | MonMotha | ds2: they do |
| 04:30.04 | MonMotha | in fact, all of them seem to |
| 04:30.04 | ds2 | that might be an option |
| 04:30.09 | RobotGuy | Really? <perks up> |
| 04:30.17 | MonMotha | yeah, they seem to do both BGA and QFP |
| 04:30.29 | MonMotha | sometimes QFN or QFP |
| 04:30.34 | ds2 | QFP + 2 layer board helps keep the cost down |
| 04:30.39 | MonMotha | yes, it does |
| 04:30.45 | RobotGuy | I've been considering an NGW100, but I don't think that board gives me all the goodies. |
| 04:30.49 | MonMotha | assembly is cheaper, and the PCBs are like 1/3-1/4 the cost |
| 04:31.12 | MonMotha | layer count is roughly a linear increase on cost, except for the jump from 2 to 4 layers, which is a big bump |
| 04:31.31 | RobotGuy | goes hunting for AVR7000 datasheets |
| 04:31.49 | ds2 | 2 layer + QFP can be done as a moonlight job by the rework folks if all you are considering is < 10 units |
| 04:32.09 | MonMotha | indeed |
| 04:32.21 | MonMotha | (the rework person at work mostly being me...) |
| 04:32.26 | ds2 | heh |
| 04:32.43 | MonMotha | hey, our purchasing person that I just spoke of is the CEO |
| 04:32.52 | ds2 | the majority of the ones around here seems to be all from vietnam |
| 04:33.01 | ds2 | and barely speak english :/ |
| 04:33.06 | MonMotha | let me guess, all ladies, too? |
| 04:33.09 | ds2 | yep |
| 04:33.22 | MonMotha | it's amazing how well that stereotype seems to hold... |
| 04:33.29 | ds2 | but they have no problem swapping out 200 pin QFPs on the spot |
| 04:33.33 | MonMotha | yeah |
| 04:37.20 | *** join/#edev prblaes (n=prblaes@DNab422f97.Stanford.EDU) |
| 04:41.24 | RobotGuy | Is CompactFlash better than SDIO/SD/MMC? |
| 04:41.39 | MonMotha | it's a whole lot more wires |
| 04:41.45 | MonMotha | though it's much more open |
| 04:41.47 | CP|home | and not hotpluggable |
| 04:41.55 | MonMotha | CF is most certainly hotpluggable |
| 04:41.56 | RobotGuy | More open as in? |
| 04:42.07 | MonMotha | more open as in specifications |
| 04:42.11 | MonMotha | CF is fully documented publicly |
| 04:42.16 | CP|home | WEll, depending on the situation |
| 04:42.19 | RobotGuy | How many more wires? |
| 04:42.25 | CP|home | I recommend SDIO/SD/MMC - don't be fooled |
| 04:42.35 | MonMotha | SD is 7-9, CF is IIRC 40 |
| 04:42.46 | MonMotha | so a lot more |
| 04:42.51 | ds2 | yes, CF is better then SDIO/SD/MMC |
| 04:42.52 | RobotGuy | CF would be faster then, right? |
| 04:42.54 | MonMotha | there's not much reason to use CF any more |
| 04:42.59 | MonMotha | depends |
| 04:43.04 | RobotGuy | OK, thanks for the simple answer. |
| 04:43.05 | ds2 | CF is basically an ISA bus |
| 04:43.15 | MonMotha | CF is much faster than SD in SPI mode, but SD in nibble mode can be about the same speed |
| 04:43.23 | MonMotha | nibble mode is unfortunately not publicly documented |
| 04:43.40 | ds2 | not even in the SDIO lite spec? |
| 04:43.49 | CP|home | documentation is moot if you have a SDHCI controller |
| 04:43.52 | MonMotha | I don't think so, but I might be wrong |
| 04:43.53 | RobotGuy | Is that why TCT does not use 4-bit SD? |
| 04:43.55 | CP|home | mooter |
| 04:44.15 | MonMotha | to be honest, I'm not sure why they don't just release the damn docs |
| 04:44.16 | RobotGuy | If the chip has the ability then it shouldn't matter. |
| 04:44.26 | ds2 | SD also has assorted voltage issues |
| 04:44.47 | MonMotha | SD is something of a hack |
| 04:44.50 | MonMotha | it's basically hacked up MMC |
| 04:44.54 | CP|home | But I guess embedded systems don't usually play with SDHCI - thats a specification right out of the devil's lair |
| 04:44.56 | MonMotha | it doe work, though |
| 04:45.07 | MonMotha | CP|home: indeed |
| 04:45.17 | RobotGuy | SDHC is different? |
| 04:45.25 | CP|home | SDHC is SD host controller |
| 04:45.35 | CP|home | standardized class driver for SD |
| 04:45.36 | MonMotha | most SD controllers are pretty raw, if they arent just simple DMA engines to begin with |
| 04:45.51 | RobotGuy | So how does SDIO fit it? |
| 04:51.15 | RobotGuy | The AVR32/7001 has a 208 QFP version. It does not seem to have USB Host, which is surprising. |
| 04:55.48 | RobotGuy | AVR32 isn't going to do as main processor, but it would be awesome to have as an auxilliary processor. |
| 04:56.02 | ds2 | why? |
| 04:56.36 | RobotGuy | ds2: 1) Not fast enough apparently (150 Mhz), 2) No USB Host (apparently). |
| 04:56.50 | ds2 | there are AVR32's with USB host |
| 04:57.05 | RobotGuy | I was looking at the 7000 series. |
| 04:57.10 | ds2 | how fast do you need it? |
| 04:57.24 | ds2 | AFAIK, the NGW board has USB host |
| 04:57.26 | RobotGuy | At least 400 MHz like the S3C2440A |
| 04:57.49 | ds2 | if you really need that much processing power, get one of the OMAP3 boards |
| 04:58.04 | ds2 | the Cortex-A8 core is more efficently the ARMv4 processor |
| 04:58.16 | ds2 | s/ly// |
| 04:59.18 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: Opinion? |
| 04:59.33 | RobotGuy | I happen to like the feature set of the S3C2440A though. |
| 04:59.48 | RobotGuy | Show me something better with the same feature set. |
| 05:00.08 | ds2 | what feature do you think is unique |
| 05:00.29 | RobotGuy | The camera interface. |
| 05:00.52 | ds2 | the PXA's have it, the OMAP2 and OMAP3's have it |
| 05:00.59 | ds2 | and that's off the top of my head |
| 05:01.07 | RobotGuy | I wouldn't mind Blackfin, but it has to have more RAM and Flash than the Blackfin Camera Board (32 MB Ram/4 MB Flash). |
| 05:01.09 | ds2 | think even the iMX.31 has it |
| 05:01.29 | RobotGuy | ds2: i.MX31 is 470+ BGA |
| 05:01.43 | RobotGuy | 479 I think. |
| 05:01.49 | ds2 | RobotGuy: for stuff like that, you'd get a premade board |
| 05:02.02 | RobotGuy | ds2: Premade by whom? |
| 05:02.26 | ds2 | donno for the iMX...ask me in again in about 4 months and I might know more |
| 05:03.15 | RobotGuy | I'll have something like a Technologic TS-7800 by then most likely, or the Virtual COGs i.MX31 baord if it is out then. |
| 05:03.54 | RobotGuy | I want a small module that can be used to build more things with. |
| 05:04.13 | ds2 | I think the gumstix make the camera port available |
| 05:04.18 | RobotGuy | I know nothing about OMAP right now. |
| 05:04.34 | RobotGuy | Gumstix has stinky small connectors. Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. |
| 05:04.41 | ds2 | OMAP is new as they just beginning to open it up to people who buy less then 23492041932843280949043289042389048239048094809480948092489041809480923480948239 units a year |
| 05:04.54 | ds2 | make a breakout board for the gumstix |
| 05:04.59 | RobotGuy | I have to admit I have been tempted by the Verdex 600 MHz board though. |
| 05:06.09 | RobotGuy | I have been on the Gumstix list for awhile. |
| 05:06.20 | RobotGuy | And TS-7000 |
| 05:06.45 | RobotGuy | ds2: There you go getting back to the make a custom board thing. |
| 05:07.32 | ds2 | RobotGuy: a breakout board can be made for <$40 |
| 05:07.42 | ds2 | it is on my list of things to do |
| 05:07.50 | RobotGuy | ds2: I keep telling you I can't do that. |
| 05:08.12 | ds2 | wait and I'll make one up |
| 05:08.51 | RobotGuy | Is there any real reason more than one board could not be connected to the Verdex, other than that there are no provisions for more than two? |
| 05:09.15 | ds2 | as long as the signals don't conflict, it should work |
| 05:09.43 | ds2 | like you can have different boards to break out the UARTs but if they all try to use the same UART or a chipselect, it won't work |
| 05:09.47 | RobotGuy | That's what I thought. Stupid Gumstix (the company). |
| 05:10.01 | ds2 | there is mechanical issues |
| 05:10.08 | ds2 | their stacking is not that stable to begin with |
| 05:10.09 | RobotGuy | ds2: I realize that. I'm not dumb enough to do that. |
| 05:10.22 | ds2 | that's why I want to do a board so I can have boards side by side instead of stacked |
| 05:10.48 | RobotGuy | ds2: Ahhh, OK. More of a backplane arrangement. |
| 05:10.54 | ds2 | yep |
| 05:11.19 | RobotGuy | I would really consider a Verdex 600 if that were possible. |
| 05:11.48 | RobotGuy | I don't care for the stupid stacking Gumstix has. |
| 05:12.06 | RobotGuy | I think it is unnecessarily limiting. |
| 05:12.13 | RobotGuy | Not to mention short sided. |
| 05:12.14 | ds2 | it is barely tolerable with the 0-80 screws to hold it together |
| 05:12.21 | RobotGuy | Did I mention stupid? |
| 05:12.41 | ds2 | the thing that irks me is the basic/connex/verdex each adds one new incompatible connector |
| 05:13.03 | RobotGuy | Now, if I could have a Gumstix style board with an S3C2440A or similar, that would just be too cool. |
| 05:13.21 | RobotGuy | I know! SODIMM style! |
| 05:13.30 | RobotGuy | grins |
| 05:13.43 | ds2 | always x86 SO-DIMM |
| 05:13.55 | RobotGuy | That's 200 pin, right? |
| 05:14.14 | ds2 | donno the numbers off hand |
| 05:14.37 | RobotGuy | 200 is what all the microcontroller boards in that form factor have. |
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| 05:24.50 | RobotGuy | You know what the likelyhood of me affording a development kit is? |
| 05:26.55 | RobotGuy | OMAP is BGA also. :( |
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| 05:38.26 | RobotGuy | G'Night. |
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| 10:33.46 | kaza_lite | hi all |
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| 13:14.28 | g1powermac_PB | heya prpplague |
| 13:14.37 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: hey |
| 13:14.52 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: how goes your hacking? |
| 13:14.55 | g1powermac_PB | I found some more info on the pxa270 usb gadget support last night |
| 13:15.06 | g1powermac_PB | http://wiki.enneenne.com/index.php/PXA27x_UDC |
| 13:15.10 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: too bad you aren't using the elinux wiki |
| 13:15.28 | prpplague | looks |
| 13:16.01 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: it seems though all the stuff is for the 2.6.22 kernel, while the zipit kernel is 2.6.21 |
| 13:16.28 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: those should be close enough together, that you probably could merger it |
| 13:16.47 | g1powermac_PB | hehe, probably is the word there, I'm far from a kernel dev :-) |
| 13:16.58 | *** join/#edev chouimat|work (n=dieu@209.217.106.98) |
| 13:17.11 | g1powermac_PB | though I'll try my best |
| 13:17.22 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: no time like the present to start learning |
| 13:17.36 | g1powermac_PB | going to git his kernel and run a diff against it versus a vanilla kernel today |
| 13:17.46 | g1powermac_PB | vanilla *2.6.22 |
| 13:18.08 | prpplague | don't you hate it when you ar brushing your teeth really good and slip poking your gums with the tooth brush? doh |
| 13:18.23 | g1powermac_PB | hehe |
| 13:20.11 | prpplague | goes for coffee |
| 13:21.54 | chouimat|work | morning |
| 13:27.20 | g1powermac_PB | bbiab, going to work |
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| 13:40.52 | g1powermac | woot, got my stuff from sparkfun today |
| 13:41.34 | g1powermac | man, that camera is soooo small |
| 13:41.54 | chouimat|work | g1powermac: perfect size to hide in the ladies' room? |
| 13:41.59 | g1powermac | hahah |
| 13:42.16 | g1powermac | nah, perfect size to stick on a mini expansion board for the zipit |
| 13:52.38 | g1powermac | dang, sparkfun is already out of stock of them cameras |
| 13:54.05 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 13:54.13 | prpplague | doesn't feel like being at work today |
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| 13:54.38 | *** mode/#edev [+o sjhill] by ChanServ |
| 13:54.48 | prpplague | i need some meetings so i can have a nap |
| 13:54.52 | prpplague | sjhill: greetings |
| 13:55.00 | prpplague | sjhill: whats cookin bossman? |
| 13:56.17 | g1powermac | man, they're out of the accelerometer too |
| 13:56.44 | prpplague | checks airline prices |
| 13:57.02 | prpplague | dijenerate: you get smoked out down there in graeme hall? |
| 13:58.02 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 14:18.49 | prpplague | another wonderful example of how the US immgiration policy is broken - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312021,00.html?sPage=fnc/specialsections/immigration |
| 14:19.19 | prpplague | punish the people who are trying to do the right thing, and reward those who intentionally break the law |
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| 14:51.10 | g1powermac | man, this git repository for the pxa27x udc is like 500mb |
| 14:57.55 | sjhill | prpplague: hello |
| 14:58.07 | sjhill | prpplague: just finished requirements and design and now i get to code! |
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| 15:10.05 | prpplague | sjhill: fun fun |
| 15:10.38 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 15:11.58 | g1powermac | hmm, ok, maybe not 500mb, seems the percentage completed is based on the number of received objects, which obviously vary in size |
| 15:12.16 | g1powermac | its now at almost 60% with 128mb downloaded |
| 15:18.21 | prpplague | g1powermac: sounds like you are getting alot more that just the udc code |
| 15:18.37 | g1powermac | yea, think its the full kernel |
| 15:18.45 | g1powermac | and then some. . . |
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| 15:25.40 | g1powermac | yea, its the entire 2.6.22 kernel with the udc code in it |
| 15:26.23 | g1powermac | hmm, question is, can I get just a plain 2.6.22 kernel? on kernel.org, I don't see any without that extra version number at the end. . . |
| 15:27.18 | g1powermac | or is 2.6.22 realistically the same as 2.6.22.1? |
| 15:28.50 | g1powermac | bah, I found it, nm |
| 15:33.04 | g1powermac | prpplague, interesting, found the intel developers manual for the pxa27x |
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| 15:38.51 | g1powermac | man, what a document |
| 15:38.54 | g1powermac | 1200+ pages |
| 15:42.06 | g1powermac | interesting, the UDC on the pxa27x also has usb otg |
| 15:42.17 | g1powermac | so its not just usb device. . . |
| 15:43.48 | g1powermac | the UDC description in this manual is 71 pages alone. . . |
| 15:46.05 | g1powermac | yea, definitely got to get my zipit to you to get xrayed, just too much stuff could be learned by that. . . |
| 16:01.48 | g1powermac | hmm, a diff between the pxa27x udc kernel version and a vanilla 2.6.22 produced a pretty small file |
| 16:02.02 | g1powermac | and actually it would prolly be smaller if I removed the git stuff first |
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| 16:21.01 | g1powermac | and here's the patch: http://www.pastebin.ca/1004036 |
| 16:21.07 | g1powermac | is making progress :-) |
| 16:22.07 | g1powermac | now lets see if it'll patch cleanly to a 2.6.21.1 kernel |
| 16:23.38 | g1powermac | well, it succeeded, just with some hunks offset by a few lines |
| 16:24.51 | g1powermac | well, it all patched. . . |
| 16:24.53 | g1powermac | interesting |
| 16:26.52 | g1powermac | woot, compiling kernel now |
| 16:28.27 | prpplague | funny funny, i just got this months edition of linux journal |
| 16:28.45 | prpplague | it has a section on thin clients booting from remote locations over wireless bridge |
| 16:28.54 | prpplague | they act like its something totally new |
| 16:29.01 | g1powermac | heh |
| 16:29.04 | prpplague | when in fact i was doing it back in 2000 |
| 16:29.35 | g1powermac | well, think that was the most I've ever done when it comes to kernel dev stuff :-) |
| 16:29.57 | prpplague | hehe |
| 16:30.19 | g1powermac | ugh, it died |
| 16:32.38 | g1powermac | www.pastebin.ca/100407 |
| 16:32.57 | g1powermac | oops: http://www.pastebin.ca/1004047 |
| 16:33.32 | prpplague | looks |
| 16:34.08 | prpplague | g1powermac: looks to probably be a gpio for enabling the udc, just a guess |
| 16:34.32 | prpplague | g1powermac: since you are probably not using it for the device it was originally written for, that enable line isn't defined |
| 16:34.56 | g1powermac | oops: http://www.pastebin.ca/1004052 |
| 16:35.00 | prpplague | g1powermac: probably the easiest thing to check and see if the rest is working, is to comment out those items |
| 16:35.08 | g1powermac | err, well, I get that too when running make menuconfig |
| 16:35.24 | prpplague | hmm |
| 16:35.31 | prpplague | yea probably something not enabled |
| 16:35.47 | prpplague | g1powermac: i'd start with commenting those lines out and just finishing the compile |
| 16:35.49 | g1powermac | sigh. . .what though |
| 16:35.54 | g1powermac | ok |
| 16:36.53 | prpplague | g1powermac: start with just commenting out those lines |
| 16:37.01 | prpplague | g1powermac: and finish the compile |
| 16:37.11 | prpplague | g1powermac: you ever see the movie "Contact" |
| 16:37.13 | prpplague | g1powermac: ?? |
| 16:37.21 | g1powermac | don't think so |
| 16:37.37 | prpplague | g1powermac: bummer, need to put it on your "to watch" list |
| 16:38.46 | g1powermac | doh |
| 16:39.24 | g1powermac | you know you've been working with bash scripts too long when you use '#' to comment stuff out in a c source |
| 16:40.09 | prpplague | g1powermac: or C too long when you try to use // in bash |
| 16:40.18 | g1powermac | hehe |
| 16:41.01 | prpplague | my #1 problem with C is that i have a thing for using = instead of == |
| 16:42.21 | solar | probably a result of spending to much time in posix sh |
| 16:43.07 | prpplague | indeed |
| 16:43.14 | g1powermac | prpplague, I never had that issue |
| 16:43.38 | g1powermac | my CS professors drilled that one in us till it became second nature |
| 16:43.45 | prpplague | solar: that and having grownup using various forms of BASIC |
| 16:44.00 | g1powermac | prpplague, interesting, it compiled with that stuff commented out |
| 16:44.47 | prpplague | g1powermac: now, grep your linux source dir for CKEN_USB |
| 16:44.59 | prpplague | g1powermac: i'm sure you will find some platform define somewhere |
| 16:45.25 | g1powermac | hmm, do you got a grep command to do that? I completely forgot how to use grep |
| 16:46.27 | prpplague | g1powermac: grep -e "CKEN_USB" -R /foo/bar/linux-2.6.xx/* |
| 16:48.23 | g1powermac | hmm, it only found it in only those three places |
| 16:49.03 | prpplague | g1powermac: can you post those sections of code? |
| 16:49.35 | g1powermac | is running that grep on a 2.6.22 kernel source, just to see if it was something added to 2.6.22 |
| 16:49.53 | g1powermac | ahh, yes, it was |
| 16:50.34 | prpplague | ahh ok |
| 16:50.41 | prpplague | so now you can trace down what that is |
| 16:50.54 | g1powermac | www.pastebin.ca/1004067 |
| 16:52.01 | g1powermac | www.pastebin.ca/1004069 |
| 16:52.06 | g1powermac | thats got some others in it |
| 16:52.06 | prpplague | ahh ok, you can add that define either in the pxa regs or at the top of the file that needs it |
| 16:52.29 | g1powermac | not sure what to do with the others |
| 16:52.48 | prpplague | g1powermac: cken_usb was the only error you got right? |
| 16:52.54 | g1powermac | yup |
| 16:52.57 | prpplague | looks |
| 16:54.58 | prpplague | g1powermac: should be ok then, just include the define either in pxa-regs or at the top of the file that needs it |
| 16:55.25 | g1powermac | alrighty |
| 16:58.45 | g1powermac | hmm, you know, the two pxa-reg.h files from the two different kernels are quite a bit different |
| 16:59.31 | g1powermac | it looks like they changed the name of CKEN_USB |
| 16:59.45 | g1powermac | in 2.6.21.1, its CKEN11_USB |
| 17:02.46 | g1powermac | www.pastebin.ca/1004079 |
| 17:03.12 | g1powermac | should I just go into that source file, uncomment the offending lines, and change it to the proper name for 2.6.21.1? |
| 17:08.55 | *** join/#edev Redhatte1 (n=vk4fsjl@203.94.56.252) |
| 17:11.01 | prpplague | g1powermac: yea thats what i would do |
| 17:11.44 | g1powermac | kewl, cause I tried it and it compiled :-) |
| 17:11.56 | g1powermac | ok, I'm going to add that to the patch |
| 17:13.45 | g1powermac | new updated patch: http://www.pastebin.ca/1004089 |
| 17:19.35 | *** join/#edev ali_as (n=as@ambix.plus.com) |
| 17:22.45 | prpplague | fun fun |
| 17:24.56 | g1powermac | bah |
| 17:25.01 | g1powermac | it won't insert the module |
| 17:25.12 | g1powermac | saying "No such device" |
| 17:25.21 | g1powermac | getting dmesg info now |
| 17:27.59 | g1powermac | meh, this is pretty hard to do here |
| 17:28.05 | g1powermac | need to wait till I get home |
| 17:30.28 | prpplague | g1powermac: did you declare a udc in your machine file? |
| 17:30.40 | *** join/#edev MothaWork (n=monmotha@mail.forwardengineering.com) |
| 17:30.55 | g1powermac | hmm, no |
| 17:31.00 | g1powermac | how do I do that? |
| 17:32.46 | prpplague | g1powermac: have a look at some of the pxa machines in the mach-pxa dir |
| 17:38.35 | g1powermac | mach-pxa? |
| 17:39.09 | g1powermac | ahh, I found it |
| 17:39.11 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 17:40.29 | MothaWork | so, anybody happen to know much SQL? |
| 17:40.38 | g1powermac | well, in arch/arm/mach-pxa, there are many source files |
| 17:40.48 | g1powermac | and a pxa27x.c |
| 17:41.19 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Greets |
| 17:41.24 | prpplague | g1powermac: http://handhelds.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/linux/kernel26/arch/arm/mach-pxa/hx4700/hx4700.c?rev=1.109&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup |
| 17:41.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy: greetings |
| 17:41.50 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Are those 7210 modules sa-1110 or samsung? |
| 17:42.06 | prpplague | g1powermac: have a look at the udc stuff in that one |
| 17:42.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the 7210 is basically identical to the hammer |
| 17:42.36 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ahhh, cool. |
| 17:42.58 | g1powermac | prpplague, there's nothing in that file with "UDC" in it |
| 17:43.12 | RobotGuy | prpplague: What is it that didn't pass Q/A? |
| 17:43.30 | g1powermac | and almost nothing for 'usb' too |
| 17:43.52 | prpplague | g1powermac: one sec let me post a url with line numbers |
| 17:43.58 | RobotGuy | Oh wait, those are sa-1110 if I remember correct |
| 17:43.58 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ?? |
| 17:44.05 | g1powermac | prpplague, ok |
| 17:44.34 | RobotGuy | nm, I am confused. |
| 17:44.56 | prpplague | g1powermac: hmm, their web git won't do line numbers |
| 17:45.04 | prpplague | g1powermac: just do a search for udc |
| 17:45.10 | prpplague | g1powermac: on that page |
| 17:45.22 | prpplague | pxa2xx_udc_gpio_info hx4700_udc_info |
| 17:45.31 | g1powermac | prpplague, and if I change this file, do I have to replace the entire kernel? |
| 17:45.41 | prpplague | yea |
| 17:45.44 | g1powermac | hrmm |
| 17:45.53 | g1powermac | thats gonna be a problem |
| 17:46.02 | RobotGuy | I was looking at SO-DIMM form factor SBC modules last night and that's actually an interesting package. |
| 17:46.03 | prpplague | g1powermac: ahh you are just trying to insert modules? |
| 17:46.11 | g1powermac | yea |
| 17:46.34 | prpplague | ahh won't work then |
| 17:46.51 | g1powermac | it seems that way |
| 17:47.34 | g1powermac | ok, so this really means I need to get my zipits board to you for xraying to find the jtag port |
| 17:50.13 | *** join/#edev magnetron (n=magnetro@unaffiliated/magnetron) |
| 17:51.02 | g1powermac | thinks there's prolly more risk in trying to replace the kernel without jtag than sending it in for xraying |
| 17:52.54 | g1powermac | prpplague, heh, read the first few lines of that patch, it adds all the udc stuff to mach-pxa |
| 17:53.13 | prpplague | url? |
| 17:53.37 | g1powermac | http://www.pastebin.ca/1004089 |
| 17:53.41 | g1powermac | that should be the updated one |
| 17:54.29 | g1powermac | but of course I need to replace the entire kernel to make it work anyway |
| 17:54.46 | *** join/#edev Crofton (n=balister@66-207-66-26.black.dmt.ntelos.net) |
| 17:55.18 | prpplague | g1powermac: well techincally you hack it up to pretend to be pxa2xx but thats alot of work |
| 17:55.28 | g1powermac | oi |
| 17:55.34 | prpplague | when all you really need is to flash a good kernel |
| 17:55.40 | g1powermac | think its easier to send my board to you :-) |
| 17:55.49 | prpplague | indeed |
| 17:56.01 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Has TCT considered that an S3C2440A based Nail Board could compete with some of the Gumstix units? |
| 17:56.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy: compete in what way? |
| 17:56.25 | RobotGuy | Well, it could potentially compete with some Gumstix models. |
| 17:56.25 | g1powermac | prpplague, ok, will send it tomorrow or saturday |
| 17:56.32 | g1powermac | you'll get it prolly mid next week |
| 17:56.37 | prpplague | okie dokie |
| 17:56.45 | g1powermac | cause now I'm stuck |
| 17:56.53 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Speed, ease of use, hobbiest friendliness, peripheral selection. |
| 17:57.56 | prpplague | RobotGuy: speed is not really relevant since its the computing power not clocks, the hammer is already easier to use than the gumstix based on the 0.1" center pins, and you wire just about anything to the hammer |
| 18:00.00 | prpplague | RobotGuy: comparing clocks to clocks is something of a hold over from the x86 arch |
| 18:00.20 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Gumstix runs at a minimum of 400 Mhz, so speed is relevant. :) Yes, I know Hammer is friendlier. Gumstix doesn't have a camera interface, so that would be another selling point. With camera interface, an S3C2440A Nail Board could even compete with Blackfin Camera Board. |
| 18:00.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: in the real of ARM devices, you have to consider a number of other factors |
| 18:00.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy: 400Mhz is a measure of clocks not performance |
| 18:00.52 | RobotGuy | S3C2410 and 2440 have 3 serial ports on board. |
| 18:01.25 | prpplague | RobotGuy: http://www.elinux.org/ARM_Processor |
| 18:01.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy: have a look at the bottom of the page |
| 18:03.11 | RobotGuy | XScale has a bigger pipeline. |
| 18:03.18 | prpplague | that is correct |
| 18:04.31 | RobotGuy | Doesn't XScale have other problems though? |
| 18:04.52 | RobotGuy | Or is it just a matter of implementation? |
| 18:05.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy: mostly of implementation |
| 18:05.28 | RobotGuy | Ahhh, OK. |
| 18:05.28 | RobotGuy | SO why doesn't TCT use XScale? |
| 18:06.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: several reasons but the primary one is that we can get about the same performance at 200mhz as an xscale running at 400mhz, less clocks less power |
| 18:07.46 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Oh, I did not know that. Very cool! |
| 18:08.01 | solar | if you did then I'd have a reason to buy one of these for doing native development on http://www.iyonix.com/ |
| 18:08.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: thats what i've been trying to point out to you |
| 18:08.26 | prpplague | RobotGuy: think if it this way |
| 18:08.26 | prpplague | RobotGuy: a movie theather |
| 18:08.27 | RobotGuy | So, would that scale up to say an S3C2440A could possibly get the same performance as a 600 MHz XScale? |
| 18:08.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: one movie theather has 400 doors, but only one person can in the door at a time |
| 18:08.49 | RobotGuy | Hi solar |
| 18:09.05 | prpplague | RobotGuy: another movie theater has 200 doors, but 2 people can go in at the same time |
| 18:09.20 | RobotGuy | Wider doors. :) |
| 18:09.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy: they still get 400 people inside at a time |
| 18:09.57 | RobotGuy | Right |
| 18:10.18 | RobotGuy | Another reason for me to really like Samsung processors. |
| 18:10.41 | chouimat|work | solar: they sell them? |
| 18:10.46 | chouimat|work | +still |
| 18:11.49 | RobotGuy | thinks about Hammer + Nail (or more than one of them). |
| 18:13.05 | prpplague | solar: simtec has a 2410 itx board, but i doubt that would be fast enough |
| 18:13.18 | prpplague | solar: a good 2460 based itx board would indeed be nice |
| 18:14.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy: it does scale up |
| 18:14.17 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Very nice! |
| 18:15.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: there is about a 150mhz to 200mhz difference in performance , if you want to do comparisons that way |
| 18:15.18 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Wow. |
| 18:15.18 | prpplague | http://www.simtec.co.uk/products/EB2410ITX/gallery.html |
| 18:18.08 | RobotGuy | The block diagram for Nail shows a 4 port USB Hub going to the USB Slave port. Shouldn't the Slave and Host ports be swapped? |
| 18:19.06 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the slave port of the hammer is plugged into a downstream port on the hub |
| 18:19.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the upstream port of the hub goes to your host pc |
| 18:19.30 | RobotGuy | prpplague: The Hub should not be inside the box then |
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| 18:19.49 | prpplague | pulls up the block diagram |
| 18:20.20 | solar | ever seen an ARM SMP setup? |
| 18:20.37 | prpplague | solar: yea, i actually saw one a few years ago |
| 18:20.47 | prpplague | solar: but it's never really caught on |
| 18:20.58 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I could slave Nail off of Hammer. :) |
| 18:21.08 | prpplague | solar: generally what you see is a arm married to a dsp or fpga |
| 18:21.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: why should the usb hub not be inside the block diagram box? |
| 18:21.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: If it is not part of Nail Board, it should be -outside- the box. |
| 18:22.06 | prpplague | RobotGuy: it is part of the nail board |
| 18:23.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I don't see that in the specs. Did I miss it somewhere? |
| 18:24.07 | solar | prpplague: did it appear that the qemu-neo1793 preformed cpu wise about as well as the native chip? |
| 18:24.11 | ali_as | The simtec hydra could have either 8 or 16 (I forget) ARMs in it. I wonder if anyone ever did fill one up with StrongARMs. |
| 18:24.19 | SpeedEvil | solar: _much_ worse |
| 18:24.27 | solar | heh doh |
| 18:24.36 | SpeedEvil | solar: at least based on the neo1973 comparison. |
| 18:25.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: didn't think it needed to be in the spec as it did not user accessble |
| 18:25.24 | prpplague | solar: yea, i was able to run some of our application software with no problems |
| 18:25.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Oh. But the connection to four USB hub ports is on Nail? |
| 18:26.09 | RobotGuy | Oh, I think I understand now. The hub is used internally to Nail. |
| 18:26.15 | RobotGuy | I see it now. |
| 18:26.21 | prpplague | correct |
| 18:26.32 | g1powermac | ok, added more documentation to the zipit site: http://zipit2system.sourceforge.net/index.html |
| 18:26.48 | g1powermac | specifically the usb gadget stuff I did today, even though I have no clue if it actually works |
| 18:26.51 | prpplague | RobotGuy: when you plug in a nail board this is what you get - http://www.elinux.org/Nail_Board_Devices |
| 18:26.58 | ali_as | Have zipit released details of the expansion port yet? |
| 18:27.32 | g1powermac | ali_as, not yet, but with the board xray, we'll know full well whats going inside the zipit without the zipit people's help :-) |
| 18:27.56 | prpplague | g1powermac: might not want to spread that around |
| 18:28.21 | ali_as | They were quite positive about helping people hack the thing, seems they havn't yet followed through so well on that... |
| 18:28.38 | prpplague | ali_as: hacking it under their terms |
| 18:28.40 | RobotGuy | Now I know what I have been missing for the host side of the gadget ethernet. |
| 18:29.11 | ali_as | Is the xray pending? |
| 18:29.19 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Why did you choose ZipIt to hack? |
| 18:29.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Is it worth getting an iPAQ RX3715 to hack? |
| 18:30.04 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no clue, i don't know what you want to accomplish |
| 18:30.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I want an S3C2440A based board running Linux. :) RX3715 must use the camera interface. :) |
| 18:30.42 | RobotGuy | Nice display too. :) |
| 18:32.04 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I could use it potentially for my remote robot console, as one example. |
| 18:32.19 | g1powermac | prpplague, ahh, ok |
| 18:32.20 | prpplague | littlechips has some nice boards |
| 18:32.49 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, mainly because its a complete handheld system, hardware size |
| 18:33.08 | g1powermac | err |
| 18:33.11 | g1powermac | s/size/wise |
| 18:33.26 | g1powermac | wonders about that typo. . . |
| 18:33.39 | g1powermac | anyway, it was also really cheap for what you're getting |
| 18:35.47 | RobotGuy | Wow, $399.00 for their S3C2440A board. Now I wonder what an S3C2440A board with 128 MB RAM would cost. |
| 18:37.57 | RobotGuy | I just want a module like Hammer I can plug into a carrier board, and it need not be solderless breadboard friendly. |
| 18:38.06 | ds2 | make a PowerHammer with a Cortex-A8 based chip |
| 18:38.17 | ds2 | ARMv4 is so.... old... ;) |
| 18:38.27 | RobotGuy | ds2: JackHammer. :) |
| 18:38.42 | prpplague | ds2: actually i'm working on that now |
| 18:38.43 | RobotGuy | ds2: Age means nothing if the technology works and does what people need/want it to do. |
| 18:39.09 | ds2 | RobotGuy: in this case, the Cortex are more power efficient then the ARMv4 |
| 18:39.22 | ds2 | more computer per W-Sec is a good thing |
| 18:39.42 | RobotGuy | ds2: OK. I am planning to get a Cortex-M3 based eval board for the LM3S6965 at some point. |
| 18:40.26 | chouimat|work | ds2: I think a cortex-a8 based board will be called GreatHammerOfWar |
| 18:40.33 | RobotGuy | Slave it off Hammer for extended I/O (Ethernet, Quadrature encoder modules, etc). |
| 18:40.37 | ds2 | hehe |
| 18:40.50 | ds2 | shouldn't that be reserved for the MP version? ;) |
| 18:41.09 | prpplague | chouimat: WarHammer |
| 18:41.16 | okalex | Hey, all. Any AT91 linux programmers here? |
| 18:41.33 | RobotGuy | TCT needs something just called Board. :) Hammer, Nail, Board. :D:D |
| 18:42.15 | RobotGuy | It could lead to another Abbot/Costello routine like Who's on First? |
| 18:42.32 | chouimat|work | prpplague: :) |
| 18:44.20 | ali_as | I still like 'SteamHammer'. |
| 18:44.26 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Would it be realistic to attach a Nail Board to Hammer? |
| 18:44.43 | RobotGuy | JackHammer. |
| 18:44.57 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea you could do that, not sure why you'd want to |
| 18:45.16 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Distributed processing for one thing. |
| 18:45.31 | prpplague | RobotGuy: then just plug a bunch of nail boards together |
| 18:45.55 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Like end to end? |
| 18:46.09 | prpplague | you could take one nail board, plug a 4 port hub into it, then put a nail board in each port |
| 18:46.23 | prpplague | then do the same for each nail board off of the hub |
| 18:46.43 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I could do that with Hammer also - four Nails plugged into one Hub. |
| 18:46.55 | solar | if tct comes our with something to go along with the hammer next it should be called Thor |
| 18:47.14 | prpplague | solar: Thor's Hammer? |
| 18:47.20 | solar | indeed |
| 18:49.50 | prpplague | solar: hehe i'll keep that one in the list |
| 18:50.54 | chouimat|work | hopes they won't call the book: So you decided to get Hammered? |
| 18:52.41 | RobotGuy | Once I get my various interface components, I should be able to connect just about anything to Hammer, etc. |
| 18:53.10 | RobotGuy | chouimat|work: You need more work. :) |
| 18:53.51 | chouimat|work | RobotGuy: I have plenty ... I just waiting for the process to crash or run ok |
| 18:54.02 | RobotGuy | considers wrapping several Nail Boards in snake like fashion layed edgewise. |
| 18:54.47 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, hehe |
| 18:55.13 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: |
| 18:55.36 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/08/05/01/1657216.shtml |
| 18:55.49 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: SODIMM form boards would work also, horizontally with a small backplane type socket setup. |
| 18:59.58 | g1powermac | that'd be interesting |
| 19:12.05 | RobotGuy | Does anyone know what the "K-Factor" means for various metals used in fabrication? |
| 19:12.26 | RobotGuy | My 3D CAD software wants this number when I create a sheet metal part. |
| 19:13.32 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: That ModLab stuff is way cool! |
| 19:16.58 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: is it for bending? |
| 19:17.24 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Yes, I believe so. |
| 19:17.45 | SpeedEvil | http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=28772 |
| 19:18.26 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, ya |
| 19:20.28 | RobotGuy | reads |
| 19:26.47 | RobotGuy | I'm thinking I don't need to worry about the "K-Factor" and can just use the 0.0330 default. |
| 19:27.22 | RobotGuy | I'm creating the body for my RSRs. |
| 19:28.53 | SpeedEvil | Do you really care about exactly what size it comes out? |
| 19:30.10 | SpeedEvil | Teh issue is solely exactly how much space the bends take up |
| 19:32.21 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I don't really care how much space the bends take. |
| 19:33.48 | RobotGuy | I've allowed for the bends to be inside rather than outside. |
| 19:34.52 | RobotGuy | Switching to Windows. BRB |
| 19:37.11 | ds2 | anyone did a USB gadget before? trying to figure out what value should bNumInterfaces be in a descriptor for something that does everything over EP0 |
| 19:39.02 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (i=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 19:39.59 | RobotGuy | returns |
| 19:40.54 | MothaWork | ds2: consult the USB spec, but I thin k0 |
| 19:41.04 | MothaWork | it may be 1, though |
| 19:41.14 | ds2 | 0 makes the kernel complain |
| 19:41.18 | ds2 | usb 4-4: config 3 has no interfaces? |
| 19:41.18 | MothaWork | I haven't thought USB in a while |
| 19:41.37 | MothaWork | it's possible that the control stuff counts as an interface |
| 19:41.56 | ds2 | maybe I should ask - what is an "interface" as far as USB is concern? |
| 19:42.44 | MothaWork | an interface is basically a set of endpoints dedicated to a function |
| 19:42.51 | roxfan | you can provide several interfaces with different functionality |
| 19:43.12 | roxfan | e.g. photo device interface and mass storage interface |
| 19:43.13 | MothaWork | for example, a USB mouse has an interface dedicated to the HID functionality of the mouse (and that interface will identify itself as speaking the HID class stuff) |
| 19:43.25 | ds2 | so interface really means functions |
| 19:43.31 | MothaWork | however, if you don't provide any endpoints other than EP0, it looks like the correct value for bNumInterfaces should be 0 |
| 19:43.41 | MothaWork | the control stuff doesn't count as an interface |
| 19:44.04 | MothaWork | an interface is really a collection of endpoints, in the simplest sense |
| 19:44.17 | MothaWork | USB says that those endpoints which are collected into an interface are grouped together for the purpose of doing "something" |
| 19:44.18 | ds2 | EP0 is an endpoint |
| 19:44.25 | ds2 | Hmmm |
| 19:44.34 | MothaWork | yes, EP0 is an endpoint, but it looks like it's not considered to belong to an interface |
| 19:44.51 | ds2 | back to staring at g_zero |
| 19:45.03 | ds2 | the linux usb stack doesn't seem to like 0 interfaces |
| 19:45.56 | MothaWork | A device has multiple "configurations", each of which may have any number of "interfaces", each of which may have any number of "endpoints" |
| 19:46.15 | MothaWork | a configuration is a state the device can be placed in. A device may present completely different functionality in different configurations. |
| 19:46.39 | MothaWork | an interface is a grouping of endpoints dedicated to transferring data for a specific purpose. each interface also has a descriptor that describes what that purpose is |
| 19:46.53 | ds2 | hmmmm |
| 19:47.03 | ds2 | water is at about eye level :/ |
| 19:47.22 | MothaWork | each endpoint moves data in a specific manner. the manner is described in the endpoint descriptor, but the purpose of the data that moves to/from those endpoints is dependent on the interface to which those endpoints belong |
| 19:47.32 | MothaWork | ds2: there's a good reason for the water being at eye level |
| 19:47.40 | roxfan | ~~~\o/~~~ <- ds2 |
| 19:47.46 | MothaWork | Microsoft designed the software side of USB. It basically mimics the Windows Driver Model |
| 19:47.50 | ds2 | roxfan: you got it |
| 19:48.00 | MothaWork | which, if you've never had the privilege of using before, consider yourself lucky |
| 19:48.13 | g1powermac | was at that point earlier with the kernel stuff I was doing. . . |
| 19:48.32 | MothaWork | most of the Linux driver APIs are downright sane compared to Windows |
| 19:48.44 | ds2 | maybe food will help making sense of this :/ |
| 19:48.49 | g1powermac | MothaWork, true that, but I have no experience with either :-) |
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| 21:13.55 | prpplague | whatcha think - http://www.barcodemegastore.com/catalog/aml/m5000-zoom.htm |
| 21:14.05 | prpplague | that with a hammer module inside? |
| 21:17.57 | prpplague | http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2008/04/open_sources_hi.html |
| 21:18.07 | prpplague | funny how people have no clue about opensource |
| 21:18.28 | SpeedEvil | You mean just as a small linux box with a keyboard, and a mono text LCD? |
| 21:19.48 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: idiots. |
| 21:20.23 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: i'd replace the lcd with a graphical one |
| 21:20.30 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: probably still mono |
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| 21:20.42 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: something like a 160x96 |
| 21:23.19 | SpeedEvil | I wonder about VGA class cameras for barcode. |
| 21:23.43 | g1powermac | well, one small step in the right direction: http://linux.zipitwireless.com/wiki/Z2 |
| 21:24.02 | g1powermac | that info is now outside of the zipit agreement |
| 21:24.22 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: they work fine with something like zebra |
| 21:24.26 | prpplague | looks at the url |
| 21:24.57 | g1powermac | though really most of the info I've gathered already |
| 21:25.01 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: what purpose were yoy thinking of for this box? You mean basically it's something you already have, and can make cheaply? |
| 21:25.27 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: the M5000 has been discontinued, old product |
| 21:25.36 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: we own the plastics and such |
| 21:25.38 | *** join/#edev sunrunner20 (n=jamesdoe@pool-71-164-162-182.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:25.49 | SpeedEvil | yeah - I mean that. |
| 21:26.39 | SpeedEvil | As just a box with a keyboard and display, I don't see much use. |
| 21:27.10 | SpeedEvil | Add camera, or bluetooth, or wifi, or GSM, and it gets more interesting. |
| 21:27.13 | prpplague | g1powermac: is zipitwireless.com owned but aeronix? or is that page an open source group |
| 21:28.31 | g1powermac | prpplague, its owned by the zipit guys. . .is aeronix the parent company? |
| 21:28.43 | prpplague | g1powermac: don't know anymore |
| 21:28.47 | GPSFan | g1powermac: the audio chip is Wolfson Micro not Wilson Micro |
| 21:29.05 | g1powermac | GPSFan, ahh, yea |
| 21:29.09 | g1powermac | didn't notice that |
| 21:29.25 | g1powermac | I think I got it right on my sf page |
| 21:29.31 | prpplague | i'm really surprised that T0mW didn't depopulate the z2 that he had |
| 21:29.50 | GPSFan | g1powermac: supposedly aeronix spun off zipitwireless, but still designs their stuff. |
| 21:29.54 | g1powermac | yea, got that right |
| 21:30.00 | g1powermac | GPSFan, ahh, interesting |
| 21:30.03 | SpeedEvil | zebra looks cool. |
| 21:30.22 | g1powermac | GPSFan, btw, did you see the stuff I did with usb gadget? |
| 21:30.32 | g1powermac | http://zipit2system.sourceforge.net/usbgadget.html |
| 21:30.34 | g1powermac | brb |
| 21:32.55 | g1powermac | prpplague helped me out quite a bit with it :-) |
| 21:33.10 | g1powermac | GPSFan, the sad part is that we need to replace the entire kernel to test it |
| 21:33.34 | g1powermac | however, drmikerow is gonna test it to see |
| 21:33.42 | GPSFan | g1powermac: yeah, i downloaded the patch and glanced at it. saw that it required a re-built kernel. |
| 21:34.04 | prpplague | ok, so their blob appears to be virgin |
| 21:34.39 | GPSFan | prpplague: they have patches to blob. I was able to compile it, but my binary doesn't quite match theirs. |
| 21:34.55 | prpplague | GPSFan: oh i didn't see the patches |
| 21:34.58 | prpplague | looks again |
| 21:36.10 | GPSFan | prpplague: there are 2 sets, one that came from lart folks to update blob for mainstone, and the other from aeronix which sets up some z2 specific stuff, and adds an aeronix signon message to the serial startup. |
| 21:36.39 | prpplague | yea found it, looking now |
| 21:37.26 | prpplague | good god, aeronix people have no clue how to make a proper patch |
| 21:37.37 | GPSFan | they set up the stuart for blob messages and it remains setup throughout startup. I ran devmem on all the gpio's for it. |
| 21:37.51 | GPSFan | prpplague: shades of the z1 code. |
| 21:39.20 | prpplague | i can't believe they have everything coded as mainstone |
| 21:40.00 | GPSFan | prpplague: their kernel patches are as "creative"... |
| 21:40.45 | prpplague | interesting they added poke and peek commands |
| 21:42.15 | GPSFan | prpplague: so if we can get access to the stuart TXF & RXD, blob can be used to flash a new kernel and/or userland or even a new blob using the reblob facility. |
| 21:42.25 | GPSFan | TXD |
| 21:42.37 | prpplague | yea |
| 21:42.41 | prpplague | jtag would be better |
| 21:42.53 | GPSFan | indeed |
| 21:42.58 | g1powermac | GPSFan, do you know where approximately the stuart is on the chip pinout? |
| 21:43.28 | GPSFan | yes, it's TXD ball C10 RXD ball A9 |
| 21:44.14 | GPSFan | both are set up by blob . |
| 21:44.40 | GPSFan | gpio46 rxd gpio47 txd |
| 21:46.20 | g1powermac | hmm, so it would be right near that wifi shield |
| 21:47.20 | GPSFan | g1powermac: correct, that's why I was probing around there with a scope the other day. |
| 21:47.21 | prpplague | hmm the code references talking to a pcf50606 on the i2c bus |
| 21:48.09 | g1powermac | hmmm |
| 21:48.19 | g1powermac | isn't the tps chip the power management unit? |
| 21:48.26 | GPSFan | there is still ethernet stuff left in blob. SMC91x... |
| 21:49.09 | ds2 | ` |
| 21:49.15 | prpplague | hmm, the code specifically calls out for setting the lcd up using a pcf50606 |
| 21:49.41 | prpplague | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/PCF50606 |
| 21:49.47 | prpplague | thats a nxp part |
| 21:50.03 | prpplague | i wonder if the ti TPS part is compatible |
| 21:50.42 | g1powermac | http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/132823/TI/TPS65021.html |
| 21:51.03 | GPSFan | dmesg containg 2 lines like: pxa2xx-fb pxa2xx-fb: machine LCCR0 setting contains illegal bits: 00300878 I asked drmikecrowe about it and he said he'd ask his software guys, never heard a word back. |
| 21:51.42 | *** join/#edev Mr_Bonga (n=Rui_Silv@213.205.70.1) |
| 21:52.21 | Mr_Bonga | hi |
| 21:53.02 | prpplague | greetings |
| 21:53.03 | Mr_Bonga | how can I implement an watchdog on an embedded system using montavista linux |
| 21:53.04 | Mr_Bonga | ??? |
| 21:53.11 | Mr_Bonga | can anyone help me?? |
| 21:53.22 | prpplague | Mr_Bonga: probably a question better asked of montavista |
| 21:53.29 | ds2 | Mr_Bonga: what board? |
| 21:53.32 | GPSFan | bbl |
| 21:53.33 | g1powermac | GPSFan, I still wonder what those E10xx labeled unpopulated pads are toward the bottom left of the cpu |
| 21:53.56 | prpplague | g1powermac: is there a complete dmesg posted |
| 21:54.02 | g1powermac | yes |
| 21:54.10 | Mr_Bonga | its a DM355 based board |
| 21:54.17 | g1powermac | http://zipit2system.sourceforge.net/system.html |
| 21:54.32 | g1powermac | has been busy :-) |
| 21:54.54 | ds2 | Mr_Bonga: talk to the MV support folks or check the MV customer pages aka the 'zone' |
| 21:55.43 | Mr_Bonga | the 'zone' ?? idont understand ds2 |
| 21:56.06 | ds2 | Mr_Bonga: you are a MV customer right? |
| 21:56.27 | Mr_Bonga | +- |
| 21:56.48 | Mr_Bonga | my board cames with montavista linux |
| 21:56.57 | ds2 | ah I see |
| 21:57.09 | ds2 | you need to talk to TI then |
| 21:57.39 | ds2 | Mr_Bonga: I think that is an OEM'ed version supported by TI |
| 21:57.54 | Mr_Bonga | yes ds2 |
| 21:57.55 | Mr_Bonga | http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/folders/print/tmdsevm355.html |
| 21:58.11 | ds2 | Mr_Bonga: so you will have to talk to TI |
| 21:58.23 | Mr_Bonga | hmmm |
| 21:59.14 | Mr_Bonga | ok |
| 21:59.17 | prpplague | g1powermac: that is soooo lame |
| 21:59.23 | Mr_Bonga | another thing ds2 |
| 21:59.30 | prpplague | g1powermac: they didn't even bother to register a machine number |
| 21:59.33 | g1powermac | prpplague, what? |
| 21:59.35 | g1powermac | oh |
| 21:59.49 | g1powermac | thought you were talking about my giant image of tux ;-) |
| 22:00.36 | prpplague | g1powermac: this is painful to look at |
| 22:00.45 | prpplague | g1powermac: how long does the z2 take to boot |
| 22:00.47 | prpplague | g1powermac: ? |
| 22:00.55 | g1powermac | depends |
| 22:01.31 | g1powermac | getting to the main zipit software takes a few seconds |
| 22:02.16 | g1powermac | doing the shell script hack I think is a bit shorter if no wireless is configured and you go straight to the shell |
| 22:02.47 | prpplague | has anyone registered a machine number for the z2 yet? |
| 22:04.48 | prpplague | g1powermac: does the z2 have some sort of mouse type pointer? |
| 22:04.53 | g1powermac | no |
| 22:05.40 | prpplague | wonders why the mouse driver is enabled |
| 22:05.57 | g1powermac | well, it does have a circular button thing for selection |
| 22:06.24 | prpplague | wow no one has registered v1 or v2 |
| 22:06.35 | g1powermac | but there isn't a mouse pointer shown in the zipit software |
| 22:06.55 | prpplague | g1powermac: i wonder if the button ring is being used as a mouse device |
| 22:07.06 | g1powermac | its a good shot |
| 22:07.18 | g1powermac | was planning on doing something similar in qtopia |
| 22:07.32 | prpplague | g1powermac: need to add to your todo list: register machine number for linux kernel |
| 22:08.01 | g1powermac | k, but how do you do that? |
| 22:08.22 | *** join/#edev Redhatter (n=vk4fsjl@2001:388:f000:0:0:0:0:279) |
| 22:08.36 | prpplague | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/developer/machines/ |
| 22:09.11 | prpplague | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/developer/machines/?action=list&id=1460 |
| 22:09.15 | prpplague | as an example |
| 22:09.42 | g1powermac | ahh |
| 22:10.06 | prpplague | g1powermac: that way you don't have to hack the mainstone code |
| 22:10.07 | g1powermac | its interesting no one did that for v1 |
| 22:10.38 | prpplague | how are you going to do expansion projects if you can't post the expansion port pinout? |
| 22:10.38 | g1powermac | v1 has been around for quite a while |
| 22:10.59 | g1powermac | prpplague, I'm working on that. . .slowly getting stuff out of their agreement :-) |
| 22:11.11 | prpplague | g1powermac: ?? |
| 22:21.44 | solar | Anybody planning on attending LWE.SFO ? I'm getting my fair share of mails about last chance for BOF's. I can propose an embedded one if anybody plans to make it out |
| 22:21.44 | *** join/#edev ico2 (n=ico2@modem-1261.cougar.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 22:23.00 | Mr_Bonga | ds2 are you there?? |
| 22:23.42 | Mr_Bonga | on make menuconfig of my kernel I am able to activate watchdog |
| 22:23.57 | Mr_Bonga | them how I use it?? |
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| 22:27.52 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 22:31.49 | prpplague | heads home |
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| 22:59.49 | sunrunner20 | oh |
| 23:19.49 | *** part/#edev Mr_Bonga (n=Rui_Silv@213.205.70.1) |
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