| 00:06.31 | GPSFan | landley: did you see that prpplague's hammer patch is in 2.6.26-rc1? |
| 00:07.00 | landley | GPSFan: no, but I expected it to go in during this merge window. Glad it did. |
| 00:07.13 | landley | This means I missed the merge window to push my "spray for perl" patch. Alas. |
| 00:07.20 | landley | spent most of this week playing World of Warcraft. |
| 00:07.30 | landley | Fade finally got her iMac, meaning her mac laptop is free for me to WoW with. |
| 00:07.34 | landley | Made a 10 day trial account. |
| 00:07.36 | GPSFan | landley: yeah, a couple of other s3c2410 items made it in as well. |
| 00:07.42 | landley | Looked up from the keyboard and it was friday. More or less. |
| 00:07.46 | landley | Coolness. |
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| 00:15.30 | landley | waves at RobotGuy. |
| 00:15.47 | landley | also waves at solar. |
| 00:15.54 | landley | How did porting Gentoo Embedded to the nail go? |
| 00:16.23 | RobotGuy | waves at landley |
| 00:16.24 | solar | landley: it went pretty fine for basic stuff |
| 00:16.25 | RobotGuy | How goes? |
| 00:16.58 | RobotGuy | How are you booting it? |
| 00:17.28 | solar | landley: somewhere along the line I ruined my dev chroot. But we recompiled the kernel. rebuilt the userland and flashed it a bunch of times. |
| 00:19.08 | landley | how goes rebuilding the dev chroot, then? |
| 00:19.12 | landley | (Er... yay? Sort of?) |
| 00:19.28 | landley | This is why I make scripts to rebuild everything from scratch every time. |
| 00:19.34 | landley | I just _expect_ to break everything. |
| 00:19.39 | solar | the chroot is an extra layer of safety for me |
| 00:20.07 | RobotGuy | landley: I usually _do_ break everything. |
| 00:20.11 | landley | If I can't rebuild it from the ground up on a fresh OS install on a different laptop, I'm going to be confronted with the need to at some point when I don't necessarily remember all the steps. |
| 00:20.26 | landley | I used to do chroots, but I break those too. |
| 00:20.27 | solar | the host system does a bunch of hosting of binpkgs. Got one chroot with 60 misc cross compilers. |
| 00:20.37 | solar | so I broke them all at the same time. |
| 00:20.37 | landley | Doing an rm -rf to clean up a bind mount: bad idea. |
| 00:20.39 | RobotGuy | landley: That's why I wrote myself some build scripts to work with buildroot. |
| 00:21.02 | landley | 60 cross compilers? |
| 00:21.10 | landley | RobotGuy: I just wrong my own build script and skipped buildroot. |
| 00:21.18 | landley | Mine's more Linux From Scratch based. |
| 00:21.21 | RobotGuy | landley: I know. |
| 00:21.34 | RobotGuy | I've done LFS/BLFS a few times. |
| 00:21.55 | solar | landley: yes. http://rafb.net/p/zozoK968.html |
| 00:22.06 | landley | solar: I don't suppose you ever gog a gcc 4.1.2 or later to build uClibc 0.9.29 for m68k without an "internal compiler error"? |
| 00:22.24 | landley | I tried gcc 4.1.2 and gcc 4.2.2 and both of them error out at the same place. |
| 00:22.57 | landley | Lots of 3.4 variants in there, I notice. :) |
| 00:23.05 | landley | For all I know, 3.4 still works. Sigh. |
| 00:23.14 | solar | cept for eabi stuff I find gcc-3.4.x to be better suited for getting results when cross compiling for softfloat |
| 00:23.27 | landley | wanted to use the "build at once" stuff to optimize over the whole tree and garbage collect at the linking stage. |
| 00:23.52 | landley | I have yet to find a gcc 4.x variant that doesn't require patching to make soft float work. At least with --disable-shared. |
| 00:24.05 | landley | (Go pcc developers, go.) |
| 00:24.14 | landley | It's too bad it's the netbsd and openbsd guys doing pcc. |
| 00:24.28 | landley | On the one hand, I'm glad that somebody's doing it. On the other, I expect results from them sometime after my grandchildren die of old age. |
| 00:25.07 | landley | How do you build linux for s390? |
| 00:25.10 | landley | I've been meaning to go poke at that. |
| 00:25.34 | solar | I have aceess two slices on one |
| 00:25.36 | landley | I asked the hercules maintainer, but he doesn't build his own kernels for s390. |
| 00:25.54 | landley | I think I could _run_ an s390 image (via hercules), I just don't know how to build it. |
| 00:26.09 | landley | Tried once and hit severan non-obviousness landmines early on. I forget what they were... |
| 00:26.36 | solar | I'm not sure what patches SpanKY puts in our toolchain that might be related to softfloat. But I'm having good luck with this combo. http://rafb.net/p/sKTKHq59.html |
| 00:27.22 | landley | I take it the compiler names are the --target tuples? |
| 00:27.28 | landley | Ooh, you got 4.2 to work with soft float. |
| 00:27.45 | landley | The patch I have only works with 4.1. I know the theory of what it's trying to do, but the gcc build system is an amorphous horror. |
| 00:28.30 | landley | Then again, my reason for attempting to upgrade to 4.2 was to try to fix m68k, and when I got far enough to prove it didn't, I lost interest... |
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| 02:03.16 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: you around? |
| 02:03.36 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: looks like the board should be arriving tomorrow |
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| 02:36.53 | g1powermac_PB | gnight all |
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| 07:27.09 | [AD]Turbo | yo all |
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| 13:19.33 | g1powermac_PB | hey all |
| 13:20.39 | GPSFan | g1powermac_PB: g'day |
| 13:23.15 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 13:24.33 | g1powermac_PB | morning GPSFan and prpplague |
| 13:24.40 | prpplague | greetings |
| 13:24.47 | prpplague | ce_geek: you alive? |
| 13:24.52 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: the package should be there today |
| 13:25.03 | prpplague | ahh ok, i'll let someone know |
| 13:25.05 | GPSFan | prpplague: did you see that your hammer patch made it into 2.6.26-rc1? |
| 13:25.19 | prpplague | GPSFan: ahh rc1 is out? |
| 13:25.21 | prpplague | looks |
| 13:25.26 | GPSFan | on sat. |
| 13:25.39 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: though then again, it is the usps, so it might be tomorrow too ;-) |
| 13:25.45 | GPSFan | as well as a few other 2410 related things |
| 13:26.12 | g1powermac_PB | heh, few other 2410 things |
| 13:26.28 | GPSFan | g1powermac_PB: you actually got tracking info from usps BEFORE the package arrived? |
| 13:26.44 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: amazingly, yes |
| 13:27.00 | g1powermac_PB | said it was in Ft Worth, Tx yesterday |
| 13:27.21 | GPSFan | wow I've never gotten anything from then untill after the package was received. |
| 13:27.41 | g1powermac_PB | yea, me neither, think it maybe was because it was shipped during the weekend |
| 13:28.16 | GPSFan | it's because it's going to prpplague, the usps doesn't mess with the plague. |
| 13:28.24 | prpplague | lovely, should be able to add some PR info on the tct website |
| 13:28.29 | prpplague | hehe |
| 13:28.40 | chouimat|work | morning |
| 13:28.43 | prpplague | GPSFan: atleast not after the anthrax scare, hehe |
| 13:28.56 | g1powermac_PB | hah |
| 13:29.06 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: I was right in the middle of the anthrax stuff in NJ |
| 13:29.11 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: doh |
| 13:29.36 | prpplague | the only thing i did this weekend was mow the yard and i still feel tired |
| 13:29.43 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: they actually pulled every garbage pale from the post offices, as they didn't want you to throw your trash mail inside the building |
| 13:29.44 | prpplague | wonders if he's getting sick |
| 13:29.56 | g1powermac_PB | and required all the postal workers to wear latex gloves |
| 13:30.05 | GPSFan | prpplague: yeah having the hammer as a device in mainline is nice. lots of other devices ther, but it gives customers the "warm fuzzy's" |
| 13:30.11 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I was sick all weekend ... I was unable to fully enjoy the n800 and the mac pro |
| 13:30.24 | g1powermac_PB | it was a fun time |
| 13:31.22 | g1powermac_PB | built some giant planter boxes yesterday and attempted to do some plumbing on saturday, but that didn't happen as I needed more parts |
| 13:32.25 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I wanted to take a sick day and work from home but I also remembered that they needed to fix the electricity in the building so ... |
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| 13:35.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Greetings. |
| 13:35.40 | prpplague | GPSFan: looks like they are already running autobuilds for testing: http://armlinux.simtec.co.uk/kautobuild/2.6.25-git19/tct_hammer_defconfig.html |
| 13:35.45 | prpplague | RobotGuy: greetings |
| 13:40.00 | RobotGuy | I have a total of 6 servos for Hammer to control now (through a servo controller). |
| 13:40.04 | GPSFan | prpplague: looks like they have been building against the 25-git trees. I assume that that's what immediately pre-dates the 26-rcx trees. What about the warnings, it looks like they don't have much to do with hammer related code as much as 2410 stuff, |
| 13:40.12 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: so I'm looking to build this circuit and attaching it to my zipit: http://www.analog.com/library/analogDialogue/archives/37-11/ecg.html |
| 13:40.36 | g1powermac_PB | the analog 8052 used in that circuit is one really neat chip |
| 13:40.38 | prpplague | GPSFan: no, there are some very generic warnings such as for some of the macros that are designed to provide warnings |
| 13:41.31 | g1powermac_PB | it has i2c/spi, dma access for the adc, nonvolatile data, and some other neat stuff |
| 13:41.35 | GPSFan | prpplague: so those warnings are nothing to worry about. |
| 13:41.47 | prpplague | GPSFan: correct |
| 13:42.18 | prpplague | GPSFan: 6 of them are generic warnings |
| 13:42.51 | prpplague | GPSFan: the other 2 are problems with the BUG() option, but no one other than me seems to be interested in fixing them |
| 13:43.08 | GPSFan | ah, a bug in BUG.. |
| 13:43.36 | prpplague | GPSFan: well its not actually BUG() that is the problem, it's how the BUG() is called |
| 13:43.38 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: Does that just need two ADCs? |
| 13:43.50 | prpplague | looks at the url from g1powermac_PB |
| 13:44.05 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: fun |
| 13:44.12 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: technically, with that 8052, you don't need any external adcs |
| 13:44.25 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: yea, I think it'll be a fun project |
| 13:44.40 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: I was thinking in terms of Hammer. TCT has assimilated me! :D |
| 13:44.47 | g1powermac_PB | heh |
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| 13:45.15 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: Does the Analog part do things Hammer could not do? |
| 13:45.16 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: well, I think it just uses one adc and one dac |
| 13:45.23 | GPSFan | g1powermac_PB: you should replace the rs232 (or i2c) interface to the PC with bluetooth and then the thing can be wireless, just slap it on the body, and watch it remotely. |
| 13:45.37 | g1powermac_PB | is not up on the hammer, so not sure |
| 13:46.03 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: was thinking that, however, that adds more complications for the first round of development :-) |
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| 13:46.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: from what i just read, only the fact that the part is opto isolated |
| 13:46.37 | GPSFan | g1powermac_PB: sure that would be an evolution of the design. get it working with a wired interface first. |
| 13:46.50 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: Ahhh, OK. Hammer does not have a DAC. |
| 13:47.56 | GPSFan | g1powermac_PB: what's the power consumption of that chip? |
| 13:50.36 | RobotGuy | I'm getting a few samples from ADI. |
| 13:52.27 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: lemme check |
| 13:52.53 | GPSFan | g1powermac_PB: ~16Mhz and 3.3V about 10ma \ |
| 13:52.54 | mbuf | prpplague, can tincantools hardware be shipped from south-east Asia? |
| 13:53.10 | GPSFan | 20Mhz 5V up to 45ma |
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| 13:53.32 | prpplague | mbuf: as far as i know, yes it can |
| 13:53.35 | okalex | Anyone if there's an IRC channel for arm-linux developers? |
| 13:53.48 | okalex | know* |
| 13:53.49 | prpplague | okalex: specifically for arm-linux, no |
| 13:53.58 | mbuf | prpplague, ok |
| 13:54.03 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: yea, just found that |
| 13:54.12 | prpplague | okalex: most of the arm kernel folks are not IRC friendly |
| 13:54.13 | okalex | prpplague: What about embedded linux in general? |
| 13:54.28 | prpplague | okalex: you are already here |
| 13:54.31 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: the part I got is 3.3v |
| 13:54.55 | okalex | prpplague: Oh. How fortunate :) |
| 13:55.07 | GPSFan | g1powermac_PB: so that's quite low, compared to the hammer, not nearly as powerful but it can do the job at 30mw full speed. |
| 13:55.07 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: now if you use 3.3v and use the internal pll, you'll only get upto 8.xxx mhz |
| 13:55.11 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: I am getting two |
| 13:55.11 | RobotGuy | |
| 13:55.11 | RobotGuy | ADUC7128 |
| 13:55.20 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: yup, me too |
| 13:55.46 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: but if you use an external oscillator, then you can go upto 20mhz |
| 13:56.09 | g1powermac_PB | thats the only really funky thing I see with this chip |
| 13:56.39 | GPSFan | how fast does the ECG need? |
| 13:56.50 | g1powermac_PB | you know, thats the one thing I've been trying to find |
| 13:57.05 | g1powermac_PB | I didn't see anything about the speed of the clock in that article |
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| 13:58.12 | GPSFan | g1powermac_PB: seen this article? http://www.e-dsp.com/how-to-build-your-own-heart-monitoring-device-a-simple-ecg/ |
| 13:59.11 | g1powermac_PB | no, thats a new one for me |
| 13:59.25 | g1powermac_PB | hmm, they used an avr for that one |
| 13:59.26 | prpplague | mbuf: looking to order a hammer kit? |
| 14:00.04 | mbuf | prpplague, just wondering if I need a 100 that students can use to learn embedded development; not a very high-end board; just to teach basics |
| 14:00.15 | mbuf | *100 boards, for example |
| 14:01.01 | prpplague | mbuf: ordering a quantity of 100 boards? |
| 14:01.08 | GPSFan | g1powermac_PB: there was another article I saw recently using an STmicro SOC part, can't find it though. (IIRC) |
| 14:01.19 | mbuf | prpplague, yes |
| 14:01.25 | prpplague | mbuf: ahh |
| 14:01.43 | prpplague | mbuf: well there are a number of schools working on curriculm based on the hammer |
| 14:01.54 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: yea, there's a few floating around |
| 14:01.58 | prpplague | mbuf: i have word that a new book is actually going to be based on using the hammer |
| 14:02.08 | mbuf | prpplague, true; the student budget is not very big in India, unfortunately |
| 14:02.53 | mbuf | prpplague, i am looking at something around 100 USD; but, with a useful application |
| 14:03.01 | prpplague | mbuf: well, the Hammer is similiar in nature as the littlechips board, but much easier to learn on |
| 14:03.04 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: I prefer using 8052s though, since I'm very familiar with them |
| 14:03.12 | mbuf | prpplague, i see |
| 14:03.17 | prpplague | mbuf: 100USD is going to be tight |
| 14:03.20 | g1powermac_PB | thats why I like the analog article/design |
| 14:03.27 | mbuf | prpplague, that's what i thought too |
| 14:03.36 | g1powermac_PB | though I still need to figure out what clock rate I should use |
| 14:03.46 | prpplague | mbuf: our hammer kit for $249 is about as complete as you can get |
| 14:04.41 | mbuf | prpplague, but the catch is the importer will like to make some profit as well, and it will add to the cost :( |
| 14:04.55 | prpplague | mbuf: importer? |
| 14:04.59 | mbuf | prpplague, that is above 70% of the market value for import duties, tax, transportation; |
| 14:05.08 | prpplague | mbuf: ahh |
| 14:05.13 | mbuf | prpplague, whoever is importing the hardware in bulk |
| 14:05.13 | RobotGuy | There is a nice sized prototype area to add your own circuits on the carrier board too, and that's more proto space than a lot of boards offer. |
| 14:05.22 | prpplague | mbuf: well for a quantity of 100, i'm sure the boss will cut you a deal |
| 14:05.27 | mbuf | prpplague, :) |
| 14:05.50 | mbuf | prpplague, i will have a look at the book, perhaps; |
| 14:05.57 | g1powermac_PB | the 8mhz clock should be enough, plus I wouldn't need an oscillator |
| 14:06.05 | prpplague | mbuf: well the book is in development now |
| 14:06.11 | prpplague | mbuf: actually there in india |
| 14:06.24 | mbuf | prpplague, i can buy some time; can wait |
| 14:06.53 | prpplague | Dhananjay V. Gadre |
| 14:06.53 | prpplague | Assistant Professor, ECE Division |
| 14:06.53 | prpplague | Netaji Subhas Institute of Technology |
| 14:06.53 | prpplague | Sector-3, Dwarka. New Delhi 110075 |
| 14:06.59 | Madsy | On x86 linux, the kernel syscalls are called via INT 0x80. Is 0x80 the SWI number on ARM Linux as well? |
| 14:07.04 | mbuf | prpplague, i see |
| 14:07.57 | prpplague | Madsy: that is a good question, i don't believe i've ever noticed |
| 14:08.00 | prpplague | looks |
| 14:08.19 | Madsy | I know the syscall numbers are the same |
| 14:08.37 | Madsy | That's why I'm puzzled why this simple hello application segfaults :\ |
| 14:08.45 | g1powermac_PB | well, time to get some stuff done |
| 14:08.51 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: lemme know if you get the package today |
| 14:09.22 | prpplague | Madsy: want to post your hello world code on pastebin.ca? |
| 14:09.26 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: will do |
| 14:09.31 | Madsy | sure |
| 14:09.51 | mbuf | Madsy, check the syscalls header file? |
| 14:10.20 | g1powermac_PB | thanks |
| 14:10.27 | Madsy | mbuf: I did. Only the *syscall numbers* are listed there. Not the interrupt service number. |
| 14:12.18 | mbuf | Madsy, the ISRs will be in the processor/SoC header files? |
| 14:12.52 | mbuf | Madsy, you could use lxr or use ctags/etags for easier cross-referencing, searches |
| 14:15.27 | Madsy | http://rafb.net/p/vDtTUf34.html |
| 14:15.47 | Madsy | It's very possible that I'm confused about the arm-as syntax :S |
| 14:16.15 | prpplague | Madsy: uh, you are trying to do assembly from inside linux? |
| 14:17.22 | Madsy | Uh, yes I write assembly code with the syscalls directly. |
| 14:17.28 | Madsy | How come? |
| 14:18.15 | Madsy | The "same" code works fine here on my Athlon. Giving syscall numbers 4 for sys_write and 1 for sys_exit |
| 14:21.41 | g1powermac_PB | well, time to build two more giant planter boxes. . . |
| 14:24.26 | prpplague | Madsy: http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~amitra/context_switch/extra/04_swi.ppt |
| 14:25.13 | Madsy | Nice, thanks a lot! |
| 14:26.35 | prpplague | ppt but o'well |
| 14:29.13 | RobotGuy | OpenOffice.Org can open PPT. |
| 14:30.01 | prpplague | RobotGuy: indeed it can |
| 14:30.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: just a pain in the arse |
| 14:30.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague: True, but it works and it's free. :) |
| 14:31.03 | prpplague | indeed |
| 14:31.14 | prpplague | has been using openoffice since it was released |
| 14:32.48 | RobotGuy | The OpenMoko Freerunner is getting closer to competing with the AT&T Tilt. |
| 14:33.17 | chouimat|work | prpplague: btw seeing a family of 8 while booting a computer is impressive (same thing on my PS3) |
| 14:33.27 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: no it bloody isn't. |
| 14:33.35 | prpplague | chouimat|work: ?? |
| 14:33.48 | RobotGuy | And the iPhone, once people create the apps for it. |
| 14:33.57 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: Software is _severely_ lacking, and the GPU blows goats. |
| 14:33.57 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I have 8 penguin while booting my playstation3 and my mac pro |
| 14:34.02 | *** join/#edev mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 14:34.18 | prpplague | chouimat|work: you mean you see 8 penguins on the frame buffer? |
| 14:34.21 | SpeedEvil | (paraphrased from the guy that's writing the graphics driver) |
| 14:34.25 | chouimat|work | prpplague: yup |
| 14:34.34 | prpplague | chouimat|work: ahh |
| 14:34.43 | prpplague | chouimat|work: is it suppose to be that way? |
| 14:34.45 | chouimat|work | SpeedEvil: blowing goats? is it worse that screwing it? |
| 14:34.56 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I have a dual quad core xeon |
| 14:35.12 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@69.73.207.13) |
| 14:35.23 | SpeedEvil | ChanServ: both are pretty bad :) I don't know - I only know 7megabytes/second graphics bus and SD shared bandwidth. |
| 14:35.29 | SpeedEvil | chou: |
| 14:35.30 | prpplague | chouimat|work: ok, so that didn't answer my question hehe |
| 14:35.40 | chouimat|work | prpplague: it's normal :) |
| 14:35.46 | prpplague | chouimat|work: is it suppose to show one penguin per core? |
| 14:35.50 | chouimat|work | prpplague: yes |
| 14:35.55 | prpplague | ahh |
| 14:36.14 | chouimat|work | prpplague: on the ps3 it's 2 big penguin and 5 or 6 little one for the spu |
| 14:41.09 | prpplague | fun fun aa.com finaly fixed their calendar popup app |
| 14:48.28 | prpplague | ce_geek: ping |
| 14:49.09 | g1powermac_PB | *grumble* working with 2x12 lumber is not easy. . . |
| 14:50.11 | prpplague | RobotGuy: boss has done up a schematic for the 3.3v to 5v i2c shifting |
| 14:52.04 | SpeedEvil | passes g1powermac_PB a chainsaw. |
| 14:53.03 | prpplague | lordy i hate it when i have to take sinus medicine these days |
| 14:53.09 | prpplague | it makes me soooo loopy |
| 14:53.33 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I saw. :) |
| 14:53.46 | prpplague | RobotGuy: oh he posted it already somewhere? |
| 14:54.01 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: ok i got some time scheduled for tomorrow afternoon |
| 14:54.11 | RobotGuy | prpplague: No, not yet. E-Mailed it to me. |
| 14:54.16 | prpplague | ahh ok |
| 14:54.45 | RobotGuy | It will be a great addition. |
| 14:54.57 | prpplague | indeed |
| 14:54.59 | prpplague | one doc at a time |
| 14:55.01 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: awesome |
| 14:55.17 | RobotGuy | Yep, that's how it all comes together. |
| 14:55.24 | g1powermac_PB | SpeedEvil: hehe, don't have a chainsaw, but I do love my reciprocating saw :-) |
| 14:55.31 | RobotGuy | I'm looking forward to adding more docs. |
| 14:55.40 | g1powermac_PB | though the chop saw is what I'm using today, provides cleaner cuts |
| 14:56.10 | g1powermac_PB | I could use a larger chop saw though so I don't have to do two cuts to cut through the 2x12 |
| 14:56.25 | RobotGuy | I remounted my carrier board on my robot last night, and put most of the servos into the arm. |
| 14:57.16 | RobotGuy | I need one more bracket to complete the gripper assembly. |
| 14:58.25 | RobotGuy | The arm is able to reach in and pick stuff off the cargo deck and put stuff on it now. I worked out the spacing finally. :) |
| 15:00.32 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 15:00.32 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 15:02.32 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: greetings |
| 15:02.42 | CosmicPenguin | hello |
| 15:02.43 | ce_geek | prpplague: Ping |
| 15:02.47 | ce_geek | prpplague: er, pong |
| 15:02.56 | prpplague | ce_geek: just checking to see if you got washed away |
| 15:03.02 | ce_geek | prpplague: Almost! |
| 15:03.33 | prpplague | ce_geek: hehe |
| 15:03.48 | prpplague | ce_geek: i figured you were pretty busy with the flooding last week |
| 15:03.59 | ce_geek | prpplague: It didn |
| 15:04.35 | ce_geek | prpplague: It didn't affect me much, but I did have to completely re-typeset my thesis for the grad school and get it printed 6 times on fancy paper, so that took up some time. This week I have two objectives: A take-home final and the hammer paper. |
| 15:04.53 | prpplague | ce_geek: fun fun |
| 15:05.25 | prpplague | ce_geek: we are getting alot of interest from other schools for using the hammer |
| 15:05.39 | ce_geek | prpplague: Good! |
| 15:06.10 | prpplague | ce_geek: i'm hoping we can use your paper as a good place to start |
| 15:06.18 | ce_geek | prpplague: Absolutely. |
| 15:09.13 | ce_geek | prpplague: Sorry it's been a bit of a process to get this thing cranked out. |
| 15:10.14 | RobotGuy | CosmicPenguin, GPSFan, ce_geek: Greetings |
| 15:10.19 | ce_geek | RobotGuy: Howdy |
| 15:10.53 | ce_geek | prpplague: The thesis work got a little more ridiculous than I had planned. |
| 15:13.16 | *** join/#edev MothaWork (n=monmotha@mail.forwardengineering.com) |
| 15:15.01 | RobotGuy | Sheesh, I can find all my USB devices -except- the one I want. |
| 15:18.21 | RobotGuy | Ah, found it, now I can install Pendrive Linux on the thumb drive. |
| 15:26.49 | prpplague | ce_geek: np, just looking forward to having it to look at |
| 15:29.03 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you just had to get involved in the PARTS rambling dicsussion :P |
| 15:29.33 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I was not trying to start anything. |
| 15:29.44 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i know, just teasing you |
| 15:29.49 | RobotGuy | prpplague: :P |
| 15:30.37 | RobotGuy | is hoping for a package today. |
| 15:32.25 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I want to be able to show Hammer doing something at the next meeting. I missed this month's meeting. :( It was about FPGAs. |
| 15:33.04 | RobotGuy | Is VFAT the same as FAT32? I can never remember. |
| 15:33.29 | prpplague | yea, pretty much |
| 15:34.35 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin would know more, he is the resident fat hacker |
| 15:34.52 | prpplague | points to CosmicPenguin |
| 15:35.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: CosmicPenguin did some cool hacks for some of the x86 bootloader stuff |
| 15:36.15 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ah, OK. |
| 15:36.26 | adyer | prpplague: i thought VFAT was kind of a long filename thing on top of FAT32 |
| 15:38.03 | adyer | prpplague: I always thought it was weird to have to select the code page/character set stuff for kernel filesystem support :-) |
| 15:39.30 | *** join/#edev slapin_nb (n=slapin@saris-243.ip.PeterStar.net) |
| 15:41.20 | RobotGuy | thinks CosmicPenguin doesn't see everyone talking about him.. :) |
| 15:42.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no, he;s just doing real work |
| 15:43.05 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am just doing real tinkering. |
| 15:44.06 | RobotGuy | I am attempting to make a Linux bootable thumb drive. |
| 15:54.29 | RobotGuy | considers the possibility of connecting an AVR32 AP7001 to Hammer. |
| 15:57.03 | g1powermac_PB | mmmm, fresh peach. . . |
| 15:59.37 | *** join/#edev ico2_ (n=ico2@modem-1540.cougar.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 16:02.38 | RobotGuy | I need to find a small Linux that doesn't use a squash fs. |
| 16:05.54 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: hmm, for embedded purposes or livecd? |
| 16:06.11 | g1powermac_PB | squashfs is used alot in livecds |
| 16:06.11 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: Bootable thumb drive. |
| 16:06.22 | g1powermac_PB | hmm |
| 16:06.27 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: I know, but I need to add stuff to it. |
| 16:06.45 | g1powermac_PB | its not that hard to add stuff to squashfs images |
| 16:06.58 | g1powermac_PB | you just need the kernel module |
| 16:07.23 | g1powermac_PB | its alot easier than the alternative compression systems |
| 16:07.27 | g1powermac_PB | like cloop |
| 16:08.05 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: I am about to check if I have the squashfs kernel module |
| 16:08.59 | g1powermac_PB | k |
| 16:11.06 | RobotGuy | What is the syntax for mounting a loop device? |
| 16:12.05 | g1powermac_PB | umm, I think its mount -o loop, but don't count on that |
| 16:12.29 | g1powermac_PB | its been a LONG time since I've mounted loop devices |
| 16:12.30 | MothaWork | "mount -o loop file mtpoint" will work |
| 16:12.36 | MothaWork | but not for MTD filesystems, of course |
| 16:12.44 | *** join/#edev KidIcarus (n=Jed@5ac3190e.bb.sky.com) |
| 16:12.49 | g1powermac_PB | MothaWork: ahh, I was right :-) |
| 16:12.58 | MothaWork | and if you want to specify losetup options (to specify what /dev/loopN gets used, crypto, etc.), you need to use losetup then mount the loopback device yourself |
| 16:13.06 | KidIcarus | Can anyone help with a problem with buildroot? |
| 16:13.36 | prpplague | KidIcarus: ask your question, they wait to see if someone A) has the time to answer and B) knows the answer |
| 16:14.13 | *** join/#edev magnetron (n=magnetro@unaffiliated/magnetron) |
| 16:15.01 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: Thanks |
| 16:15.02 | g1powermac_PB | don't forget the apathetic option of not caring to answer ;-) |
| 16:15.50 | KidIcarus | I cant get it to compile. The first error I get is curses.h: No such file or directory. Should this file be in the tar file or somewhere in my linux OS? |
| 16:16.16 | g1powermac_PB | KidIcarus: install the ncurses-dev package on your system |
| 16:16.23 | KidIcarus | Right-o |
| 16:16.25 | KidIcarus | Thanks |
| 16:16.30 | g1powermac_PB | ya welcome |
| 16:16.38 | g1powermac_PB | that'll let you compile menuconfig |
| 16:17.07 | KidIcarus | I'm only just starting with Linux. I've spent too long with crappy windows and DOS. |
| 16:17.33 | agaffney | you're only just starting with linux, and you're jumping straight into embedded? :P |
| 16:17.50 | *** join/#edev likewise (n=likewise@82-171-51-231.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 16:18.25 | KidIcarus | I've done a bit of scripting on Solarus and AIX, but I've been programming for years, so why no start at the deep end? :) |
| 16:19.16 | prpplague | ce_geek: ping |
| 16:21.53 | prpplague | hmm anyone familar with the creative commons licenses? |
| 16:23.00 | *** join/#edev [AD]Turbo (n=turbo@host24-241-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 16:23.39 | RobotGuy | KidIcarus: That usually works for me. :) It can be difficult though, regardless of background. |
| 16:25.50 | KidIcarus | I currently only have the objective of wanting to run homebrew software on my ICN330 sat nav. But I see the whole thing as a very steep learning curve. |
| 16:28.42 | RobotGuy | builds a buildroot for the thumb drive - an experiment |
| 16:29.46 | RobotGuy | prpplague: The default buildroot config does not have two of the C/C++ options turned on. |
| 16:30.49 | prpplague | that is correct |
| 16:31.02 | prpplague | because my default build does not use c++ |
| 16:31.50 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Shouldn't C/C++ be the default, since some packages require C++ to build? |
| 16:32.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no packages that are in the default build require c++ |
| 16:32.45 | *** join/#edev ali_as_ (n=as@ambix.plus.com) |
| 16:32.45 | *** join/#edev Dr{Who} (n=mathewss@dev.null.nutech.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:32.55 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I know that, but there are packages that do require C++ to build, such as libusb. |
| 16:33.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: turn c++ on then |
| 16:33.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I always turn C++ on now. That's not my point though. |
| 16:34.00 | prpplague | ok |
| 16:34.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what package as part of the default build do you think needs to be included? |
| 16:34.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I spent a lot of time trying to figure out why libusb would not build, until somebody told me it needed C++. |
| 16:34.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Nothing in the default build. |
| 16:35.00 | RobotGuy | sighs |
| 16:35.04 | prpplague | RobotGuy: thats a failure on the part of the libusb then |
| 16:35.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: it should check for the correct dependencies |
| 16:36.03 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I agree. It still would have saved me a lot of hair pulling if I had the C++ in the default build when I started out. |
| 16:36.18 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'll be happy to change the config, i think its a total waste, but whatever |
| 16:36.39 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It was just a suggestion. |
| 16:37.18 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you know you have access to the wiki, you can post alternate config files there |
| 16:37.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes, I know I have access. Everybody has if they create an account. |
| 16:38.00 | prpplague | ce_geek: ping |
| 16:38.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy: post a config there you want as a default, i'll look it over and commit it |
| 16:38.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK |
| 16:38.48 | *** join/#edev chsigi (n=chsigi@85.127.102.52) |
| 16:39.53 | g1powermac_PB | hmm, this would prolly be useful for my ecg circuit: http://www.standardics.nxp.com/products/p82b/p82b96_715/ |
| 16:40.06 | g1powermac_PB | isolate the analog 8052 from the main zipit |
| 16:43.36 | SpeedEvil | g1powermac_PB: much of these are 'oooh - our stuff is best' designs. |
| 16:44.00 | SpeedEvil | I'd recommend you find a microcontroller you find has a good toolchain under your OS of choice, and then use that. |
| 16:44.27 | g1powermac_PB | SpeedEvil: yea, and the analog 8051 is really good |
| 16:44.41 | g1powermac_PB | I know 8051s the best and have worked alot with them in the past |
| 16:44.49 | SpeedEvil | Sure - is it easily available? |
| 16:45.44 | prpplague | T0mW: ping |
| 16:47.39 | g1powermac_PB | SpeedEvil: yup, got samples on the way |
| 16:49.00 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 16:49.10 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It's on the Wiki now. |
| 16:49.24 | prpplague | we are getting a ton of requests for application notes for the silliest of things |
| 16:49.33 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Like what? |
| 16:52.49 | prpplague | some guy whats a hello world c app note |
| 16:55.07 | KidIcarus | I could do with an English translation of the "guide" I'm trying to follow. Nothing works as described and no hints are given to help you resolve anything. |
| 17:00.18 | prpplague | KidIcarus: what guide are you following? |
| 17:01.20 | KidIcarus | http://duff.dk/navman I've got as far as building u-boot but thats it |
| 17:01.34 | RobotGuy | prpplague: You can e-mail me more of the suggestions if you want to. I'm interested in seeing what others want to do with Hammer. |
| 17:03.14 | prpplague | RobotGuy: this one just wants apps notes with stuff like helloworld and a led blinker userspace app |
| 17:04.04 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It sounds like they just want Hammer to -do- something out of the box. I don't think that's unreasonable. |
| 17:04.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy: it does something out of the box |
| 17:05.09 | RobotGuy | prpplague: You can console to it and run commands. What else does it do out of the box? |
| 17:05.19 | RobotGuy | wonders if he missed something |
| 17:05.29 | prpplague | led, buzzer, push buttons |
| 17:05.54 | prpplague | http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_Board_Example_Kernel_Drivers |
| 17:06.21 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I didn't see where it blinked any LEDs, made a noise, or such out of the box. I know about that page. |
| 17:07.01 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I think the person actually wants to SEE it blink an LED, HEAR it make a noise, etc. Like a demo application. |
| 17:07.03 | prpplague | RobotGuy: are you saying that you didn't know about the example drivers? |
| 17:07.23 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I know about the example drivers. I just haven't tinkered with them. |
| 17:08.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: then how can you say it doesn't do anything out of the box? |
| 17:14.41 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I'll wait until I get my new Hammer and tinker with it and see if it actually does these things out of the box with no required effort on my part. I think that's what the person wants. |
| 17:15.08 | RobotGuy | I'm out for a bit, but bbiab. |
| 17:15.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: its exactly as written |
| 17:15.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the default kernel on the hammer comes with all of those drivers enabled and tested |
| 17:15.44 | prpplague | RobotGuy-Out: it's what we do to verify the board |
| 17:16.13 | RobotGuy-Out | prpplague: OK. I just never saw those things, I guess. |
| 17:16.19 | RobotGuy-Out | BBIAB |
| 17:18.50 | T0mW | prpplague: yo! |
| 17:19.09 | T0mW | prpplague: messing with Zipit right now |
| 17:21.18 | prpplague | T0mW: how goes it? haven't seen around much |
| 17:22.04 | T0mW | prpplague: I've been consumed with buying a house, that and just generally screwing off as I have all my contracts filled |
| 17:22.25 | prpplague | T0mW: oh wow, you finished all the contracts? |
| 17:23.12 | T0mW | prpplague: yeah, the one company took the project in-house, as I expected them to do at some point. they paid my bill so now I have enough for a 20% down on a house! :) |
| 17:23.25 | prpplague | nice |
| 17:23.43 | T0mW | yes, finally, I've been working towards this for about 5 years now |
| 17:24.22 | T0mW | prpplague: credit score is way up there, housing market is slumping, and, Tom has a bunch of cash |
| 17:24.28 | T0mW | heheh |
| 17:24.34 | prpplague | T0mW: oh you are talking about the house |
| 17:25.00 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe i thought you were talking about your contract |
| 17:25.06 | prpplague | isn't a house person |
| 17:25.55 | T0mW | prpplague: well, I don't like socking my money into someone else's pocket |
| 17:26.24 | prpplague | T0mW: i can understand that, its a trade-off |
| 17:26.46 | prpplague | T0mW: i don't care for all the responsibilities that come with owning a house |
| 17:27.24 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 17:27.37 | T0mW | prpplague: there is that too. The place I am buying will need a new roof in about 3 years, a new oil tank real soon, ... |
| 17:27.54 | prpplague | oil tank? |
| 17:29.07 | prpplague | guesses T0mW is talking about something for heating |
| 17:29.49 | Madsy | prpplague: I figured it out |
| 17:30.02 | prpplague | Madsy: ahh good deal |
| 17:30.22 | Madsy | All syscalls seem to have an offset of 0x900000 |
| 17:30.54 | Madsy | And instead of using register 0 for setting the syscall number, you call it directly into the SWI opcode |
| 17:30.55 | prpplague | Madsy: interesting |
| 17:31.09 | prpplague | Madsy: you were able to find that info from that paper? |
| 17:31.23 | Madsy | Nope, the kernel sources. |
| 17:31.41 | prpplague | ahh |
| 17:31.44 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I think it's cold where T0mW lives :) |
| 17:31.50 | Madsy | Most of the stuff in the paper I allready new. But it's still nice to have |
| 17:42.38 | g1powermac_PB | hey T0mW |
| 17:42.53 | g1powermac_PB | T0mW: i've been doing alot of zipit hacking |
| 17:42.59 | g1powermac_PB | zipit2system.sf.net |
| 17:44.32 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: that one @#$@#$ over on ##microcontrollers that i sent the hammer kit to ever show up again? |
| 17:45.02 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: you know, he never did |
| 17:45.32 | prpplague | i had three people do that already |
| 17:45.39 | g1powermac_PB | thats sad |
| 17:45.48 | prpplague | sent them a kit and they did nothing with it, and even disappeared off irc |
| 17:46.20 | g1powermac_PB | would've done something with it, though it could've been awhile after receiving |
| 17:46.37 | g1powermac_PB | but made sure I told you about my situation |
| 17:47.12 | g1powermac_PB | would not want to take something and not at least offer to send it back if I couldn't do my part |
| 17:48.26 | KidIcarus | Forgive my ignorance, but what is Hammer? |
| 17:49.46 | g1powermac_PB | well, got to get back out and finish this last planter box. . .this one is gonna be fun to get into place |
| 17:50.37 | *** join/#edev emil|k (i=emil@f054012235.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:50.37 | prpplague | KidIcarus: http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_Board |
| 17:52.04 | g1powermac_PB | ok, maybe not, stupid giant bumble bee hanging around. . . |
| 17:52.28 | KidIcarus | cool. I think my wife's cousin will be interested in that. He designs chips for Intel. |
| 17:53.26 | g1powermac_PB | doesn't mess with bumble bees or wasps |
| 17:54.23 | g1powermac_PB | or really any stinging insects, there's a definite potential I can be allergic to them from my family history |
| 17:56.13 | *** join/#edev okalex (n=okalex@CPE001839df38d1-CM00111ae2d600.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 17:56.40 | T0mW | g1powermac_PB: I just re-start doing that stuff |
| 17:57.06 | T0mW | g1powermac_PB: I just threw away all the oe stuff that I had and started over again |
| 17:58.05 | *** join/#edev okalex (n=okalex@CPE001839df38d1-CM00111ae2d600.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 17:59.18 | *** join/#edev ico2__ (n=ico2@modem-1659.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 17:59.24 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: if i was going to be burried, i'd want something like this - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354137,00.html |
| 17:59.29 | okalex | Can anyone recommend a lightweight graphics library for embedded linux? I just got my frame buffer driver working for a small (240X64) monochrome LCD, and now need text and maybe some simple widgets. |
| 18:00.04 | g1powermac_PB | T0mW: ahh, ok |
| 18:00.29 | g1powermac_PB | T0mW: well, my main goal is to get qtopia running on it, and also do some hardware stuff |
| 18:00.46 | chouimat|work | prpplague: nice |
| 18:00.46 | g1powermac_PB | T0mW: first step right now is to find the jtag port on it |
| 18:01.04 | g1powermac_PB | so we can replace the internal system with a customized one |
| 18:01.09 | prpplague | okalex: there are a number of small libs, including directfb |
| 18:01.18 | prpplague | okalex: you can run tinyx with something fltk |
| 18:01.19 | g1powermac_PB | at least thats what I'm planning |
| 18:01.37 | T0mW | g1powermac_PB: well, good luck with that, I think that the only way you can do that is to strip a board and follow the traces under the CPU |
| 18:01.39 | prpplague | okalex: any particular type of widgets you looking for? |
| 18:02.04 | prpplague | *cough* or use some special equipment |
| 18:02.13 | okalex | prpplague: widgets - tabbed pages and buttons in particular. |
| 18:02.15 | g1powermac_PB | points to prpplague |
| 18:02.19 | T0mW | g1powermac_PB: roxfan has a bricked unit that I sent him that he was going to strip |
| 18:02.26 | okalex | debating the merits of using a library versus coding my own. |
| 18:02.49 | prpplague | okalex: yea, we coded our own for the M5900 series |
| 18:02.54 | okalex | prpplague: I'd rather avoid having to creat my own font library, though. |
| 18:03.09 | prpplague | okalex: its open source, but not documented at all |
| 18:03.41 | okalex | prpplague: got a link? it may help. |
| 18:03.45 | RobotGuy | returns |
| 18:04.13 | g1powermac_PB | T0mW: so we should be able to find the jtag on it as long of course if its brought out somewhere :-) |
| 18:04.18 | prpplague | okalex: hmm good question, let me look, we normally provide the sdk on cd with the purchase of a product |
| 18:04.37 | okalex | prpplague: also, if you or anyone else is interested, I've written a frame buffer driver for a non-memory-mapped LCD module based on the virtual frame buffer. |
| 18:04.59 | prpplague | okalex: sounds interesting |
| 18:05.20 | prpplague | okalex: looks like we don't have it posted anywhere |
| 18:05.35 | prpplague | okalex: i'll see if we can tar that up and put it out on the wiki |
| 18:06.09 | KidIcarus | Has anyone done anything similar to http://duff.dk/navman , and would be willing to help a newby? |
| 18:06.14 | prpplague | okalex: might also look at picogui, its not currently maintained, but is still a very robust app |
| 18:06.20 | okalex | prpplague: no problem, i mainly just wanted to get some recommendations of a graphic library, or if it would be easier to just roll my own for my small limited requirements. |
| 18:06.36 | likewise | okalex: what kind of graphics, GUI? |
| 18:06.39 | prpplague | okalex: most folks here have hacked a device or two |
| 18:06.58 | prpplague | KidIcarus: most folks here have hacked a device or two |
| 18:07.09 | likewise | okalex: or non-widget graphics? |
| 18:07.28 | okalex | prpplague: so is it more trouble than it's worth to get something like directfb working if all I need is text, tabs, and buttons? |
| 18:07.46 | prpplague | okalex: no idea about your needs |
| 18:07.51 | okalex | likewise: just very simple monochrome buttons and text for a small lcd. |
| 18:08.51 | likewise | okalex: depends on the need for your input stuff. At a certain point, I simply would use cairographics or agg as a layer over the LCD framebuffer and handle inputs (touchscreen?) myself |
| 18:09.18 | likewise | okalex: in fact, I'm in a project where we have to make that choice (but we postpone it :-)) |
| 18:09.41 | likewise | okalex: small as in 320x240? |
| 18:09.46 | okalex | prpplague: i'm writing a menu-driven front-panel interface for some audio hardware running on an Atmel SAM9260. The input will just be up,down, left, right, and enter buttons. |
| 18:10.02 | okalex | likewise: smaller, 240X64 |
| 18:10.18 | likewise | okalex: ough, and how many lines of text? |
| 18:10.21 | prpplague | okalex: got a datasheet/url on the lcd you are using? |
| 18:10.56 | okalex | likewise: 8 lines of text off to the side, and 4 in the menu area. |
| 18:11.17 | likewise | okalex: ok, almost no use for antialiased vectorized fonts than. |
| 18:11.22 | likewise | s/than/then/ |
| 18:12.32 | okalex | prpplague: LMR5428EW240G64SF here: http://www.densitron.com/Displays/LCD_Modules_Monochrome_Graphic.aspx |
| 18:13.01 | okalex | likewise: definitely not antialiased, since the LCD is monochrome anyway. |
| 18:14.07 | likewise | okalex: oh yes, monochrome means two luminances as well in that world :-) |
| 18:14.07 | okalex | likewise: not monochrome as in grayscale, but monochrome is in either black or white. |
| 18:14.11 | likewise | okalex: yup, the bell rang :-) |
| 18:15.08 | prpplague | cute display |
| 18:15.12 | okalex | likewise: The LCD controller can actually do grayscale, but the panel manufacturer doesn't support it, so it may limit the life of the LCDs. |
| 18:16.08 | okalex | prpplague: It's all right. The manufacturer hasn't exactly been a thrill to work with, but it's the only graphic LCD at least 64 pixels high that we could find that'd fit in a 1RU unit. |
| 18:18.27 | prpplague | both femacorp and microtips have displays that would be similiar in size/format |
| 18:19.11 | okalex | i'll have a look at picogui, directfb, and tinyx. thanks for the recs, guys. |
| 18:19.17 | RobotGuy | I got my samples from TI. :) |
| 18:19.39 | prpplague | okalex: np |
| 18:20.18 | KidIcarus | anybody handy with u-boot? |
| 18:20.43 | okalex | KidIcarus: Handy in what way? |
| 18:20.52 | adyer | KidIcarus: what do you have in mind? |
| 18:21.51 | KidIcarus | I'm trying to follow a "guide" which says install it and apply a particular patch, then run it. I get a "system not configured" error and the guide is no help whatsoever |
| 18:22.18 | okalex | KidIcarus: What platform? |
| 18:22.53 | T0mW | waits for it |
| 18:22.53 | KidIcarus | Its a Navman ICN330 with an ARM |
| 18:24.07 | okalex | KidIcarus: Are you using buildroot, or how did you build your toolchain? |
| 18:24.29 | KidIcarus | Yes I'm using buildroot. |
| 18:24.55 | KidIcarus | Not 100% sure I'm doing any of this right. |
| 18:25.07 | adyer | KidIcarus: did you do a make <boardname>_config in the main u-boot directory? |
| 18:25.48 | KidIcarus | no. Neither the guide nor the patch mentioned it. |
| 18:26.19 | adyer | KidIcarus: you have to do that. I don't know the correct board name for your target, you'll have to figure that out. |
| 18:27.03 | KidIcarus | I'll try. I was under the impression that the patch was supposed to be doing all of that! |
| 18:27.07 | adyer | KidIcarus: that's how the build stuff in u-boot gets set up for a particular target board |
| 18:27.31 | okalex | KidIcarus: Is your board supported in Buildroot? If so, you can get Buildroot to configure and compile U-boot for you. |
| 18:27.44 | KidIcarus | it created a folder, but not a _config folder |
| 18:28.32 | GPSFan | g1powermac_PB: found it... http://www.stm32circle.com/projects/project.php?id=31 |
| 18:28.43 | adyer | KidIcarus: the most a patch file by itself is going to do is set things up so you can do that. A script file could do it for you, but it doesn't sound like that's what you've got |
| 18:28.50 | KidIcarus | In the folder, theres a board subdir with a config.mk file in it |
| 18:29.18 | KidIcarus | What I have isn't particularly descriptive. See it yourself http://duff.dk/navman |
| 18:30.37 | likewise | okalex: I know TFT's that fit 1RU and are 320x240 |
| 18:30.51 | Madsy | prpplague: http://rafb.net/p/fCu2Kf99.html |
| 18:31.00 | okalex | KidIcarus: You may want to see if your board is supported in Buildroot. Go to the buildroot directory and type 'make menuconfig'. |
| 18:31.00 | prpplague | looks |
| 18:31.05 | Madsy | This works. However, the string has to be in the same section. |
| 18:31.10 | Madsy | How come? |
| 18:32.08 | okalex | likewise: Oh yeah? That may be useful, if not for my current project, maybe a future one. |
| 18:32.15 | Madsy | I guess the offsets become wrong if they don't share sections. If I put my string in .data, I get garbled output |
| 18:32.20 | prpplague | Madsy: thats a good question, i rarely do asm as a userspace application under linux, all of my experience has been with bootloaders |
| 18:32.43 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: well, now thats just awesome |
| 18:32.43 | likewise | palm technology has one that I know ( I have a sample here 320x240) |
| 18:32.52 | adyer | KidIcarus: yeah, he forgot a step. In between setting CROSS_COMPILE and running make, you need to do 'make icn330_config'. Only need to do it once, so he prolly just forgot |
| 18:32.58 | Madsy | Anyway, I can use SWIs now. Yay. |
| 18:33.03 | prpplague | hehe |
| 18:33.15 | likewise | okalex: Palm Technology has one that I know ( I have a sample here 320x240) |
| 18:33.38 | KidIcarus | Thanks adyer. I'll try that now. |
| 18:33.56 | okalex | likwise: I'll check them out. Thanks. Our hardware guy will definitely want to see this. |
| 18:34.30 | okalex | likewise: Do they have on-board controllers? |
| 18:34.34 | g1powermac_PB | yay, all four giant planter boxes are done, finally |
| 18:34.44 | likewise | okalex: yes |
| 18:35.00 | g1powermac_PB | 7 ft long, 1 ft tall, and just over a foot wide |
| 18:35.13 | adyer | g1powermac_PB: what version linux do they run? |
| 18:35.35 | g1powermac_PB | adyer: heh, pine-ix :-) |
| 18:37.24 | g1powermac_PB | alright, now I can enjoy the rest of the day reading my embedded linux book |
| 18:39.11 | KidIcarus | It just threw up a shed load of errors, I dont think build root was configured correctly. |
| 18:39.30 | okalex | likewise: I think the smallest 320x240 they have (PMG22AW) is probably just barely too large for us. It'll technically fit in 1RU, but at 40mm high, it only leaves 4.5mm for the surrounding metal. |
| 18:40.38 | likewise | okalex: yes, true |
| 18:40.44 | okalex | likewise: That would probably be a bit too tight for us to be comfortable with. Looks like a cool display, though. They've got some others that would meet our needs, too. I'll send the info to our h/w guy. |
| 18:41.15 | likewise | okalex: note that some have 0.70 mm pitch and they told me there is no connector supplier for that. |
| 18:41.43 | okalex | likwise: Yikes. How exactly is one supposed to interface to the device, then? |
| 18:41.59 | likewise | okalex: dunno, they mentioned "solder job" :-) |
| 18:42.43 | okalex | likewise: What a nightmare. I had to do that with an 1mm pitch flat cable with a sample I had and it was a disaster. |
| 18:43.14 | SpeedEvil | I wonder if simply a light smear of paste, and an iron would do. |
| 18:43.33 | SpeedEvil | Clamp into alignment , apply soldering iron to preheated board. |
| 18:43.36 | okalex | likewise: The next time, I just got a connector for it and stuffed it into the .100" breadboard area on my development board. |
| 18:44.03 | okalex | likewise: it was still kinda messy, but better than trying to solder to the plastic flex cable. |
| 18:44.29 | likewise | SpeedEvil: good point, I have one sample to try :-) |
| 18:50.21 | *** join/#edev magnetron (n=magnetro@unaffiliated/magnetron) |
| 18:50.28 | prpplague | ugh, why would you try to solder to flex? |
| 18:51.55 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: I see it not unoften in consumer goods. |
| 18:52.02 | SpeedEvil | Guess it's cheaper. |
| 18:52.08 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: for flex? |
| 18:52.15 | SpeedEvil | Than a connector. |
| 18:52.26 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: i've never seen flex being soldered |
| 18:52.38 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: i've seen it bonded, but never soldered |
| 18:52.48 | SpeedEvil | I assumed it was solder. |
| 18:52.59 | SpeedEvil | It looked like solder. |
| 18:53.22 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: are you sure you aren't thinking of ribbon cable and not flex? |
| 18:53.29 | SpeedEvil | no - flex-pcb stuff. |
| 18:53.37 | okalex | prpplague: What's bonding? |
| 18:53.53 | prpplague | okalex: a process similiar to glueing |
| 18:54.15 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: well if it was soldered, i expect that they would have bonded posts to solder to |
| 18:54.33 | prpplague | okalex: but it makes not sense to solder to a lcd flex cable |
| 18:54.46 | okalex | prpplague: I see. Seems like it'd be hard to get a good electrical connection that way, no? |
| 18:54.55 | SpeedEvil | As I recall, it looked like it had simply been placed face-down on a board, and ironed on. |
| 18:55.16 | okalex | prpplague: yeah, i know. I tried it once. The flex cable melted and the traces pulled off. |
| 18:55.39 | SpeedEvil | Maybe it was some sort of adhesive. |
| 18:55.57 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: that sounds more like a bonded connection |
| 18:56.26 | SpeedEvil | I wonder what the MP of that stuff is. |
| 18:56.37 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: MP? |
| 18:56.39 | SpeedEvil | I know I've soldered to it, so it's not in principle impossible. |
| 18:56.42 | SpeedEvil | Melting Point. |
| 18:57.01 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: its around 400 |
| 18:57.02 | SpeedEvil | With leaded though. |
| 18:57.32 | okalex | My iron was set at 700, so that explains why I melted it so easily. |
| 18:58.28 | prpplague | okalex: what is the maximum module size for your application? |
| 18:59.07 | okalex | prpplague: We could go up to 38mm if we have to, but preferably around 35mm. |
| 18:59.20 | okalex | prpplague: high, that is |
| 19:00.52 | prpplague | okalex: might if i ask what the lcd will be displaying? |
| 19:01.15 | prpplague | okalex: server status or something like that? |
| 19:01.59 | okalex | prpplague: It'll be used for configuration of the device, plus status readouts and a little logo. |
| 19:02.16 | prpplague | okalex: ahh |
| 19:03.02 | prpplague | sounds like you probably could use a nail board with a small lcd |
| 19:03.21 | okalex | prpplague: A nail board? |
| 19:03.32 | prpplague | http://www.elinux.org/Nail_Board |
| 19:04.46 | okalex | prpplague: Looks cool. We've already got our hardware pretty much set (AT91SAM9260), but that looks pretty good for some hobby projects. |
| 19:06.02 | okalex | prpplague: Does it have an audio add-on board available? That'd be useful for some ideas I have. |
| 19:06.16 | prpplague | okalex: just a pwm buzzer |
| 19:06.47 | prpplague | okalex: you could do pwm through a filter and to do basic audio |
| 19:07.01 | prpplague | okalex: or you can just use a usb audio dongle |
| 19:08.25 | okalex | prpplague: PWM audio wouldn't sound very good. I want to design an ethernet audio receiver similar to the airport express, but multi-platform compatible. |
| 19:08.59 | prpplague | okalex: yea for high quality audio, you'd need to do the usb dongle |
| 19:09.15 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Are there any known to work with Hammer now? |
| 19:09.26 | *** join/#edev sunrunner20 (n=jamesdoe@pool-71-164-162-182.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:09.36 | prpplague | RobotGuy: all the ones that are listed as working at linux-usb.org work |
| 19:10.03 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Cool. :D:D W.A.L.T.E.R. must be able to make good quality noises. :) |
| 19:10.10 | okalex | prpplague: I'm thinking about using a GumStix, but with the necessary expansion boards, they can get pretty pricey. |
| 19:10.26 | prpplague | RobotGuy: thats overkill, should just use a pwm with a filter |
| 19:10.32 | prpplague | okalex: indeed |
| 19:10.52 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Of course it's overkill. That's the best reason to do it. :D |
| 19:10.57 | prpplague | okalex: why not buy an off the shelf receiver |
| 19:11.19 | okalex | prpplague: Of course, I've got about a brazillion other things on my plate right now, plus I'm about to go back to school, so I've no idea if or when I'll have time for it. |
| 19:11.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I also want the audio input features though. |
| 19:11.35 | okalex | prpplague: No reason, it's just a project I'd find interesting. |
| 19:11.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: adc |
| 19:12.03 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Hmmm, I should learn how to use the Hammer ADCs. |
| 19:12.09 | prpplague | RobotGuy: our new kiosk we were able to do the full audio support with a codec |
| 19:12.20 | prpplague | s/with/without |
| 19:12.41 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Nice. OK, I will look at using the ADCs then. I wonder if I will need to create a driver for them. |
| 19:13.09 | prpplague | RobotGuy: most of it already exists out there on the net |
| 19:14.54 | RobotGuy | I need to get some boards I can practice soldering QFPs, SOICs, SSOPs, etc. to. |
| 19:15.27 | RobotGuy | I want to work up to being able to solder a QFP 208. |
| 19:16.30 | okalex | RobotGuy: It's not that hard. I had to solder a 240-pin DSP for my senior design project in college. A binocular microscope helps a lot. |
| 19:17.10 | RobotGuy | okalex: All I will have to use is a magnifier with a light in it, and I don't have that right now. |
| 19:18.26 | okalex | RobotGuy: Be liberal with flux and don't press on the pins too hard. It can be pretty easy to bend a pin or lift a pad off the board. |
| 19:19.50 | RobotGuy | okalex: I know all about bending pins. Many years ago, I did electronic assembly and had to solder to FDA specs. |
| 19:20.05 | adyer | okalex: lol I once had a tech who didn't like the smell of flux. He didn't last long :-) |
| 19:20.46 | okalex | adyer: I actually really like the smell of flux. It smells like pine tress. |
| 19:20.46 | sunrunner20 | rotflmao adyer |
| 19:20.56 | sunrunner20 | it smells like cancer to me :p |
| 19:21.18 | okalex | s/tress/trees |
| 19:22.17 | okalex | sunrunner20: I've never had the "Cancer Fresh" kind. I'll see if I can find it next time. |
| 19:22.30 | sunrunner20 | :) |
| 19:25.33 | okalex | prpplague: With directfb, is it possible to redirect input from the serial port to the directfb application? |
| 19:26.16 | T0mW`gone | okalex: one way could be to use /dev/input |
| 19:27.52 | T0mW | okalex: this took an IR keyboard, with the decoder on a serial port, processed the serial input into keystrokes (keyup / keydown) and fed them to /dev/uinput:http://www.openhardware.net/Misc_Stuff/IR_Keyboard/ |
| 19:28.46 | T0mW | the /dev/uinput device goes into the input processing of the kernel and can be seen as keystrokes as if coming from a console |
| 19:30.01 | okalex | T0mW: Awesome, thanks. That'll be really useful because we'll probably be adding an IR port onto our box. Plus the front panel buttons will need to control the app. |
| 19:30.43 | T0mW | okalex: I still use that IR keyboard (from WebPal) to control mythtv |
| 19:30.53 | okalex | Out of curiosity, has anyone here read "Linux Appliance Design"? |
| 19:32.21 | okalex | I'm probably going to implement the database system (except with SQLite instead of Postgresql) they discuss for my configuration settings, and I was just wondering what other people's experiences are with that. |
| 19:37.38 | prpplague | okalex: additionally there is support in the kernel for serial keyboard interface |
| 19:38.00 | prpplague | okalex: which means a serial port can be configured to provide console keyboard events |
| 19:39.20 | T0mW | okalex: cool, source is there for you to hack and enjoy |
| 19:39.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: http://www.beldynsys.com |
| 19:40.06 | KidIcarus | adyer, Thanks for you help, but I seem to get 1 error after another. I think the guide is missing out too many steps, so I'll have to abanded the idea. |
| 19:40.09 | prpplague | RobotGuy: iirc you can also order their boards from jameco |
| 19:40.12 | okalex | prpplague: Currently, the serial port is all I have for the console. I wasn't sure how to redirect it to directfb, but I guess my app could just access /dev/ttyS0 directly, right? |
| 19:40.47 | prpplague | okalex: yes you could it do it that way as well |
| 19:40.52 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Oh yeah, I think you showed me those before. I need to bookmark that. :D |
| 19:41.22 | prpplague | okalex: you can also set up a fifo device |
| 19:41.38 | prpplague | okalex: i often use that for keyboard filtering and testing |
| 19:41.57 | RobotGuy | BBIAF |
| 19:42.09 | prpplague | has some errands to run |
| 19:46.04 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.115.218.135.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 19:49.04 | GPSFan | g1powermac_PB: if nothing else those articles might give you some ideas for the analog front-ends, and power supplies. |
| 20:00.32 | RobotGuy | I just got a bunch of samples from TI. Some of them say they are moisture sensitive and should be baked prior to soldering to reduce chances of damage. Do these really need to be baked before soldering?? |
| 20:01.26 | *** join/#edev ico2__ (n=ico2@modem-1659.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 20:02.14 | sunrunner20 | RobotGuy: what are they? |
| 20:08.32 | adyer | RobotGuy: most likely not. That is usually a requirement for industry. We once had some asics that were left unsealed for a few months in taiwan, when they went through reflow soldering the moisture in them went to steam and cracked the plastic. |
| 20:09.29 | RobotGuy | sunrunner20: Some ZigBee chips and a microcontroller. |
| 20:09.45 | adyer | RobotGuy: it takes some time for a chip to absorb moisture |
| 20:09.55 | RobotGuy | adyer: That's what I figured. |
| 20:10.26 | RobotGuy | I have quite a few TMS470 controllers and some TI DSP controllers too. |
| 20:10.30 | sunrunner20 | probally wouldent bother then |
| 20:11.56 | adyer | RobotGuy: usually they give you 24 or 48 hours after opening a sealed container, but I've had open parts on the shelf for years, and been okay with hand soldering |
| 20:15.50 | RobotGuy | adyer: Well, as long as I am soldering samples, I am not too worried. It's when I get to a point I can solder these well and start working with chips I have to pay for that I want to be sure I am good enough. |
| 20:17.04 | RobotGuy | Most of the really interesting chips I want to work with are in the 80 - 144 QFP with at least one being 208 QFP. |
| 20:17.15 | *** join/#edev KeyserSoze (n=Miles@67.107.206.170.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 20:19.59 | T0mW`gone | RobotGuy: I dunno how far you want to go with this, but, I use a paste stencil to apply solder paste, then use a toaster oven to reflow (solder on) the parts. |
| 20:20.18 | T0mW`gone | RobotGuy: I've built some fairly complex boards that way. |
| 20:21.30 | T0mW | RobotGuy: of course, I have both a 5X magnifier lamp + 10/20X binocular microscope |
| 20:22.53 | RobotGuy | T0mW: Well, I want to be able to use chips like the AVR32 AP7001 (208 QFP). |
| 20:23.42 | RobotGuy | T0mW: I need to get a good magnifying light. Do you have any recommendations? |
| 20:24.05 | T0mW | RobotGuy: look here to see what I've done http://www.openhardware.net/Misc_Stuff/ToasterSMD/ |
| 20:24.54 | T0mW | RobotGuy: at the bottom is some of the smaller boards, but the last board I did had over 150 SMD parts on it, all fine-pitch or 0805 |
| 20:25.57 | T0mW | RobotGuy: I got a cheap mangnifier on ebay, I use that and an eyeloop as a simple microscope when putting the parts on the board. |
| 20:26.21 | RobotGuy | Wow. I don't know about reflow, but there are some decent rework stations I've seen. What do you think of those? |
| 20:26.25 | T0mW | RobotGuy: from experience, I don't get that many solder shorts, very very few if at all |
| 20:26.34 | T0mW | RobotGuy: $$$$ |
| 20:26.48 | T0mW | RobotGuy: toaster oven costs you $60 |
| 20:27.02 | RobotGuy | T0mW: True, those are inexpensive. |
| 20:27.31 | T0mW | RobotGuy: if you have to remove a bad IC, cut the leads free from the body of the part using an X-acto knife, then wipe them off the board with an iron. |
| 20:27.34 | RobotGuy | I can just see the faces of my friends when I tell them what the toaster oven is for. |
| 20:27.44 | RobotGuy | is away: Gone away for now. |
| 20:28.06 | T0mW | get a 1300/1500W model with some kind of temp markings on the dial C/F |
| 20:28.24 | RobotGuy | Ahhhh |
| 20:28.41 | T0mW | pretty simple to do |
| 20:29.08 | T0mW | don't believe all those people that tell you that you need a temperature probe ($$$), you don't need one. |
| 20:29.20 | RobotGuy-Out | returns. |
| 20:30.02 | RobotGuy | I will have to see how good I get at the soldering of these packages. I won't invest more money if I won't be good enough to use it all. |
| 20:30.10 | SpeedEvil | tom: they are only $$ now. |
| 20:32.45 | adyer | RobotGuy: http://www.practicalcomponents.com/boards/mixed-tech.htm (practice kits no idea on price) |
| 20:34.34 | SpeedEvil | I want some cheap BGAs. |
| 20:34.41 | SpeedEvil | and stuff. |
| 20:35.32 | RobotGuy | adyer: I'm trying to not spend any more money right now and haven't even got my interface components ordered yet. Probably won't get those this month. :( |
| 20:39.58 | RobotGuy | I don't want to do anything with BGAs, even though I have heard they are not that much more difficult. |
| 20:41.20 | T0mW | SpeedEvil: IMO, the problem with BGA is placement. They *might* be solderable in a toaster oven |
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| 20:41.34 | SpeedEvil | tom: I'd like to play with that. |
| 20:41.38 | Zatixiz | Hello! |
| 20:42.59 | adyer | T0mW: theoretically the BGAs are better for placement because the surface tension of the molten solder will correct small misalignments, it's just hard getting a look under there :-) |
| 20:43.17 | SpeedEvil | ponders making an x-ray tube. |
| 20:43.31 | RobotGuy | ponders x-rays |
| 20:44.04 | chouimat|work | ponders going home |
| 20:44.15 | SpeedEvil | ponders hiring supergirl to do BGA inspection. |
| 20:44.29 | chouimat|work | SpeedEvil: that could work too |
| 20:44.37 | RobotGuy | Speaking of going, I have to go for a bit. BBIAW |
| 20:44.42 | SpeedEvil | And even IR soldering. |
| 20:45.10 | chouimat|work | and probably manifacturing too =) |
| 20:45.16 | *** part/#edev adyer (n=adyer@adsl-69-223-13-78.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 20:49.25 | SpeedEvil | ponders. Batgirl to do ultrasonic welding. |
| 20:50.34 | chouimat|work | SpeedEvil: and wonder woman as your assistant? |
| 20:51.16 | SpeedEvil | Invisible woman for a PCB clamp. |
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| 21:03.22 | okalex | Is KDrive the same thing as Tiny-X? |
| 21:04.28 | okalex | Just found the answer. It's a fork of Tiny-X. |
| 21:11.43 | *** join/#edev [tla] (n=[tla]@host86-133-226-39.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:12.10 | [tla] | hi. I have an AMD Athlon x86_64 but the buildroot config only seems to support x86_64 core2/barcelona etc. What should i use for target architecture variant? |
| 21:17.57 | [tla] | !help |
| 21:32.24 | T0mW`gone | okalex: it is about as small as you can go, for an X server |
| 21:39.52 | okalex | T0mW: I think I'm just going to roll my own. I don't really need an X server, and everything else requires a bunch of extra packages. It just seems like overkill for my requirements. |
| 21:42.07 | T0mW | okalex: probably, btdt myself |
| 21:43.53 | T0mW | okalex: about 6..7 years ago, I wrote a simple library that I could draw lines, draw boxes, print text (moveto, drawto, etc.). It simply drew into the frame buffer. |
| 21:48.50 | okalex | T0mW: Yeah, that's what I'm planning on doing. Shouldn't be too difficult. |
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| 21:49.27 | okalex | T0mW: It's the text rendering that I'm still unsure about. |
| 21:51.13 | okalex | T0mW: Did you use a font library, or create your own for that, as well? |
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| 22:03.47 | T0mW | okalex: I swiped some fonts from a font library |
| 22:04.08 | *** join/#edev likewise (n=likewise@82-171-51-231.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 22:04.39 | T0mW | okalex: they were 5x7, 8x11, and 9x16 fonts, IIRC, bitmapped stuff |
| 22:05.59 | T0mW | okalex: I probably have that stuff still around on a cd/dvd someplace. took it off my system a few years ago |
| 22:07.29 | okalex | That's okay. I'm rather looking forward to doing some graphics coding. I'm just trying to gather the best ways to approach things. |
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| 22:39.45 | ds2 | Hmmm |
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