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| 05:42.03 | johntramp | Hey. Would the wire colours inside a parallel port cable be the same for each cable? Is there any standard? |
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| 07:20.13 | [AD]Turbo | hola |
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| 12:42.20 | g1powermac_PB | monring prpplague |
| 12:42.32 | prpplague | greetings |
| 12:43.04 | g1powermac_PB | is going to take a tour of his new college this morning :-) |
| 12:43.17 | g1powermac_PB | and meet with admissions and all that stuff |
| 12:45.34 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: fun fun |
| 12:45.42 | prpplague | wishes he could go back to school |
| 12:47.05 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 12:51.59 | g1powermac_PB | alright, cya all later |
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| 13:08.54 | sjhill | hey prpplague |
| 13:09.01 | prpplague | sjhill: greetings |
| 13:09.06 | prpplague | sjhill: whats cookin? |
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| 13:10.53 | prpplague | GPSFan / chouimat|work morning guys |
| 13:11.23 | GPSFan | prpplague: howdy... |
| 13:15.21 | chouimat|work | is back from a 3 days weekend |
| 13:23.43 | sjhill | prpplague: production issues |
| 13:23.57 | prpplague | sjhill: btdt |
| 13:24.40 | sjhill | mil temp stuff makes things nasty |
| 13:25.27 | prpplague | ahh |
| 13:31.04 | MothaWork | I swear, we must have a floating point mutex in here somewhere... |
| 13:31.19 | MothaWork | >50% of our CPU time is spent in libpthread doing locks |
| 13:31.32 | prpplague | yikes |
| 13:31.40 | MothaWork | and none of it is under our control |
| 13:31.45 | MothaWork | it's all glib/gobject |
| 13:33.21 | MothaWork | yeah, it's kinda baffling |
| 13:33.36 | ohsix | http://library.gnome.org/devel/gdk/2.13/gdk-Threads.html#gdk-threads-set-lock-functions ??:] |
| 13:34.24 | MothaWork | well, our app isn't even threaded |
| 13:34.27 | MothaWork | which is why this is so weird |
| 13:34.42 | MothaWork | well, at least the part that touches glib isn't |
| 13:35.13 | ohsix | it'll acquire the locks those cover in a bunch of places, if anything you could set them to a NOOP |
| 13:35.25 | chouimat|work | is happy to stay away from glib |
| 13:35.29 | MothaWork | that is possible |
| 13:35.37 | MothaWork | chouimat|away: oh we would be too, but glib comes "free" with gtk |
| 13:35.41 | ohsix | probably not a good idea though, cuz it uses that to preserve reentrancy in places |
| 13:36.01 | MothaWork | which, while we don't need gtk, it makes it easy to make our fonts oh so pretty |
| 13:36.15 | ohsix | gdk/glib is pretty nice :] gtk-server can be handy too! |
| 13:37.27 | chouimat|work | MothaWork: I have pieces of code that use it because I had to use libxml++ for a project :( |
| 13:38.05 | MothaWork | the majority of this app is written in WxWidgets, but we're using wxgtk |
| 13:38.12 | ohsix | thats a lot of deps for xml |
| 13:39.02 | chouimat|work | ohsix: I agree if only I could have used Qt xml stuff ... the API is more sane than libxml++ :) |
| 13:39.52 | ohsix | on the scale of ick, qt fares no better |
| 13:40.16 | chouimat|work | ohsix: 4.4 is getting there :) |
| 13:40.42 | ohsix | heh, alright |
| 13:41.57 | chouimat|work | ohsix: It's my opinion |
| 13:42.04 | MothaWork | widget toolkits are in general pretty bad |
| 13:42.53 | ohsix | opions in software often get in the way of doing useful work, evangelism takes time, and the educated pontificator often spends even more time learning about what they advocate for :] |
| 13:44.05 | chouimat|work | long gone are the days where you could code without understand what you're doing or using :) |
| 13:44.34 | ohsix | Qt users negate that assertion completely :] |
| 13:45.04 | chouimat|work | ohsix: which assertion? |
| 13:45.57 | ohsix | ahh an evangelist, nevermind |
| 13:46.08 | chouimat|work | ohsix: no ... |
| 13:47.51 | chouimat|work | ohsix: and please don't insult me |
| 13:48.59 | ohsix | why.. i never |
| 13:49.25 | ohsix | let me know when qt "gets there" because i've been hearing the same thing from the fans for years |
| 13:49.47 | ohsix | and i dont mean shinier buttons :] |
| 13:51.00 | chouimat|work | ohsix: hehe ... the part I use every day is great, the some part I don't used so I don't know yet. What I mean is what I know/use enable me to be a lot more productive than using libxml++ or something else thats all |
| 13:51.44 | ohsix | thats fine, you have to start somewhere :] |
| 13:53.03 | ohsix | it might not be fair to you, but the only people that evangelize qt are first year CS students, at crappy schools that teach c++, and none of the other principles of a solid education in programming :] |
| 13:53.25 | chouimat|work | ohsix: I have to start somewhere I agree I simply use qt since 1998 :) |
| 13:53.39 | ohsix | my condolences |
| 13:54.04 | chouimat|work | ohsix: not really ... it's less painfull to use imho than MFC and wxwidgets |
| 13:54.22 | ohsix | that's not saying much of anything at all, heh |
| 13:54.26 | mbuf | anyone here coming to LinuxTag 2008? |
| 13:54.34 | ohsix | though wxwidgets is definately the high mark at that level |
| 13:54.49 | ohsix | but they're all crappy toolkit wrappers that dont do anything particularly novel |
| 13:55.21 | chouimat|work | ohsix: I prefers qt because it has a little smalltalk feel too it, like OS X :) |
| 13:55.39 | ohsix | thats me cringing |
| 13:56.58 | ohsix | and preprocessors are a poor way to wedge things together, and insanely cohesive, might be fine if you can actually live in that ecosystem, but it is an ecosystem |
| 13:58.52 | ohsix | the thing about ecosystems is the echo chamber effect, and the time spent learning the quirks of it all that aren't really applicable to anything but the particular environment at hand |
| 14:00.02 | chouimat|work | ohsix: only if you don't have a solid programming background :) |
| 14:00.32 | ohsix | and theres the clincher, if you're using qt you dont have better sense :] |
| 14:01.21 | chouimat|work | ohsix: I don't agree without there |
| 14:01.45 | ohsix | echo chamber... |
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| 14:04.40 | prpplague | ce_geek: hey hey |
| 14:05.11 | chouimat|work | goes back to his current task replace perl stuff with c and crappy glib stuff :( |
| 14:05.37 | ohsix | you can get a preprocessor for that :] |
| 14:05.46 | chouimat|work | ohsix: ha ha ha |
| 14:07.58 | ce_geek | prpplague: howdy |
| 14:08.54 | ce_geek | Anyone played with SIM card readers? |
| 14:09.14 | ce_geek | I bought one for like $7 on amazon, and it is a brandless piece of junk with software that doesn't run. |
| 14:09.25 | prpplague | ce_geek: sounds like fun |
| 14:09.37 | ohsix | they're just sockets with a uart in em |
| 14:11.44 | ohsix | the handiest sim card/bluetooth anything i've messed with lately is a samsung phone, those things let you do everything :] |
| 14:11.51 | ce_geek | Haha |
| 14:12.10 | ohsix | you can read/write browse the sim cards values and interrogate it for some things |
| 14:12.11 | ce_geek | Seems like a reasonable device to want to use, just need some working software for it. |
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| 14:28.48 | Mr_Bonga | hi |
| 14:29.39 | Mr_Bonga | I am having a problem on a embedded system to do a Control+C from a telnet session |
| 14:30.00 | Mr_Bonga | does anyone knows why I can't do a Control+C ?? |
| 14:33.10 | prpplague | Mr_Bonga: are you telneting from the embedded system or telneting into the embedded system? |
| 14:33.18 | SpeedEvil | control-c is handled AIUI by the login manager |
| 14:33.26 | SpeedEvil | the shell doesn't implement it on its own |
| 14:33.53 | SpeedEvil | it's handled by agetty or whatever |
| 14:34.25 | prpplague | Mr_Bonga: the most probably cause is that there is no controlling tty for your session |
| 14:37.11 | prpplague | Mr_Bonga: http://busybox.net/FAQ.html#job_control |
| 14:46.08 | prpplague | anyone got ideas of what they'd like to see in a small web server board based on the hammer? |
| 14:46.33 | CosmicPenguin | an x86 |
| 14:46.34 | CosmicPenguin | runs |
| 14:46.47 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 14:47.19 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea well, as much hype thats surround the atom, our next product line might be using x86 |
| 14:47.33 | CosmicPenguin | ouch, below the belt |
| 14:47.39 | CosmicPenguin | the referee takes away a point |
| 14:47.39 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:49.57 | prpplague | wonders if AMD has something in development to compete with the Atom |
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| 14:50.19 | CosmicPenguin | does too |
| 14:51.09 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: working on any interesting open source projects these days? |
| 14:51.14 | CosmicPenguin | coreboot |
| 14:51.24 | prpplague | ahh |
| 14:51.36 | CosmicPenguin | we are developing a minimal libc for payloads |
| 14:51.42 | MothaWork | prpplague: we're thinking about messing with the Atom, too |
| 14:51.57 | MothaWork | 3-5W for a full-blown x86 CPU is pretty tempting |
| 14:52.01 | RobotGuy | Atom? |
| 14:52.13 | MothaWork | Atom is Intel's very low power x86 offering |
| 14:52.22 | MothaWork | 3-5W for basically a Core 2 |
| 14:52.28 | chouimat|work | and expensive to iirc |
| 14:52.34 | MothaWork | yes, it's not cheap |
| 14:52.49 | RobotGuy | Low power and small always seems to be expensive |
| 14:52.50 | MothaWork | and it does need a fair bit of supporting HW |
| 14:52.58 | MothaWork | unlike most ARM SoCs |
| 14:54.49 | adyer | MothaWork: I don't think Atom is anywhere close to a core 2 - more like a PentiumPro on steroids |
| 14:55.26 | MothaWork | adyer: I should say it is instruction set compatible with core 2 |
| 14:55.28 | RobotGuy | There are only a small number of ARM processors I like. |
| 14:55.35 | MothaWork | performance is something around a very, very fast PPro, yes |
| 14:55.39 | MothaWork | so like a mid-range PIII |
| 14:55.46 | MothaWork | that's what I'm told, at least |
| 14:56.07 | RobotGuy | My server is a 733 MHz P III |
| 14:56.18 | MothaWork | your server also probably consumes more than 5W :) |
| 14:56.30 | RobotGuy | Of course it does. :) |
| 14:56.33 | adyer | I also really hate the small pitch BGA that Atom comes in - leads to lots of layers and fine pitch board |
| 14:56.47 | MothaWork | I've been told to expect about 1.2GHz Pentium M level performance out of the Atom |
| 14:56.59 | RobotGuy | That's the price of small. BGA is EVIL. |
| 14:56.59 | ohsix | the p3 is from back when they actually did engineering, thats where they picked up after the p4 fiasco fizzled out :] |
| 14:57.01 | MothaWork | adyer: well, that's a very GOOD thing for the applicaiton we hav ein mind |
| 14:57.08 | MothaWork | oh no, BGA is very, very nice |
| 14:57.13 | MothaWork | when you need it |
| 14:57.14 | CosmicPenguin | 1.2Ghz is pretty good to get out of a 3 watt BGA |
| 14:57.17 | MothaWork | when you don't need it...it sucks |
| 14:57.36 | MothaWork | CosmicPenguin: they don't run at 1.2GHz, but that's the level of performance I'm told to expect |
| 14:57.48 | RobotGuy | I found an AVR32 in a QFP. |
| 14:58.04 | MothaWork | adyer: if the fine pitch is bad, get a fan out interposer |
| 14:58.10 | CosmicPenguin | MothaWork: what a shock - its not like any other x86 processors are marketed like that! |
| 14:58.12 | adyer | MothaWork: I don't mind BGA, but 0.4mm pitch is a PITA. 1mm, 0.8mm, even 0.6mm would be okay, but I don't want to make a cell phone |
| 14:58.17 | MothaWork | you can convert it to a standard 1mm BGA |
| 14:58.34 | MothaWork | 1mm BGA uses standard design rules at almost all fabriactors |
| 14:58.50 | ohsix | the p3/p-m by extension are marvels :] |
| 14:58.51 | MothaWork | yeah, 0.4mm is pretty tight, but it's doable if you're willing to pay for the PCB, and some applications of it do need the size |
| 14:59.08 | adyer | MothaWork: umm, yeaqh, I think an interposer would be great for signal integrity and manufacturing yields :-) |
| 14:59.13 | SpeedEvil | just wishes the parts he was interested in diddn't have a double price for BGA |
| 14:59.15 | MothaWork | adyer: you'd be surprised |
| 14:59.47 | MothaWork | in fact, I'm told interposers can REDUCE manufacturing costs and improve yields. You can put the BGA on the interposer on a dedicated line |
| 15:00.14 | MothaWork | you do have to take them into account during signal integrity, yes, but most interposer makers seem to have some sort of model available at least |
| 15:02.03 | adyer | MothaWork: I have a hard time believing adding double the number of solder joints and extra assembly steps is going to improve yields or do anything beneficial to quality, production speed, or costs. |
| 15:03.55 | MothaWork | adyer: well, compared to no interposer, perhaps, but if the rest of the PCB is different design rules, it can help with cost at the minimum |
| 15:04.18 | MothaWork | you can put the BGA on the interposer on a dedicated line, inspect everything, e-test, underfill, etc. |
| 15:04.23 | RobotGuy | has to reinstall Linux |
| 15:04.25 | MothaWork | you may not want to do that on your normal PCB assembly line |
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| 15:05.12 | MothaWork | basically, you can move costs around so that reliability isn't affected as much. Rather than pay for expensive procedures on a large PCB with lots of stuff that doesn't really require those procedures, you concentrate on the "tough stuff" |
| 15:05.34 | MothaWork | I do agree, though, that fine pitch BGAs are nothing but annoying when you don't need the space |
| 15:06.08 | MothaWork | the last project was a 0.8mm. Just fine enough to cause me to have to move from my standard PCB design rules, while giving me almost no benefit since I didn't need the extra space |
| 15:07.52 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: Where does the Freescale i.MX31 fit in as far as easy to make boards for? |
| 15:08.21 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: does AMD still market the geode ? |
| 15:08.39 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i know there are still customers and production, just curious about marketing |
| 15:08.50 | CosmicPenguin | we market the crap out of it |
| 15:09.18 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: never used it |
| 15:09.22 | adyer | MothaWork: with atom you have to do the CPU and chipset that way, and managing two board builds plus integration is way more headache than one. Intel was pushing pre-made Atom modules, but then you have to pay the middleman, and that sucks too. Now if they only had a version in a bigger package, all that would go away... |
| 15:09.26 | RobotGuy | Does Geode compete with VIA's offerings? |
| 15:09.52 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: interesting |
| 15:09.57 | MothaWork | adyer: I do agree that the lack of integration of Atom is one of the most serious problems with it |
| 15:10.05 | MothaWork | it allows flexibility, but is a lot of work |
| 15:10.30 | MothaWork | either you have to use a module (less flexible, expensive) or put lots of things on your PCB (pain in the butt) |
| 15:10.39 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i always see lots of one day design conferences in the area where SoC vendors do demo's and such, but i don't ever recal having seen AMD do any for the geode |
| 15:10.44 | prpplague | checks |
| 15:11.04 | MothaWork | CosmicPenguin: if it weren't for sitting in this channel, I'm not sure I would be aware the Geode still existed |
| 15:11.20 | RobotGuy | would rather use AMD than Intel. |
| 15:11.33 | MothaWork | we had a Marvell rep show up and talk to us, but I've never heard a peep from anybody repping AMD |
| 15:11.46 | prpplague | MonMotha: me either |
| 15:11.57 | prpplague | MonMotha: and we've already had two Intel reps for the Atom |
| 15:12.02 | MothaWork | wow |
| 15:12.23 | MothaWork | one of our reps briefly mentioned it, but Intel isn't a big line for him |
| 15:12.34 | MothaWork | so once we said we had heard about it, that was that |
| 15:12.41 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: the lx800 looks pretty niffty |
| 15:12.43 | MothaWork | he just wanted to make sure we knew of it, not so much about it |
| 15:13.23 | adyer | I'm aware of both, but AMD seems to flog their distis less, so the disti guys don't push their stuff. |
| 15:13.31 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: i.MX31 is a 479 BGA |
| 15:15.01 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: is there a place where you can download reference schematics for the lx800? |
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| 15:15.40 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: what's the pitch, and does it have cutouts in the pattern? |
| 15:15.43 | CosmicPenguin | yeah, you can get them from the developer site (click through needed) or you can buy the board and get the schematics for free |
| 15:15.53 | CosmicPenguin | well, the schematics are free either way, but you know what I mean |
| 15:16.00 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: I don't know. Will look. |
| 15:16.14 | MothaWork | the ball count isn't the issue so much as how bad it is to fan the chip out |
| 15:16.20 | MothaWork | and that depends on pitch and cutouts |
| 15:16.44 | MothaWork | if it's a 1mm pitch with skipped squares every 2, then it's easy |
| 15:16.51 | MothaWork | no matter what the ball count, really |
| 15:17.47 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: here ? http://wwwd.amd.com/amd/developer.nsf/ |
| 15:18.44 | adyer | looks like i.MX31 comes in 457 BGA with 0.5mm pitch and 473 BGA with 0.8mm pitch. |
| 15:19.46 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: i.MX31 is 0.5mm pitch. |
| 15:20.25 | RobotGuy | I think the i.MX31L is the 457 and i.MX31 is 473 |
| 15:21.22 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: then good luck |
| 15:21.38 | MothaWork | either of those will require slightly specialized design rules |
| 15:21.40 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: Oh, I don't ever expect to be able to use such a chip. |
| 15:21.43 | MothaWork | 0.8mm isn't too bad, at least |
| 15:21.56 | MothaWork | 0.8 can be done on 4/4, which is becoming reasonably common |
| 15:22.14 | prpplague | MonMotha: no kidding, we are going to have to invest in some new bga equipment |
| 15:22.40 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: yep |
| 15:22.43 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hmm |
| 15:22.53 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: I would have to buy a board with the i.MX31 on it. There is a small board with the i.MX21 on it, but I hate the durn connectors it uses. |
| 15:22.54 | MothaWork | 0.5mm will possibly require microvias |
| 15:23.00 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: not sure i can sign up for the site since it requires NDA |
| 15:23.08 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: yep, that is indeed a problem |
| 15:23.46 | prpplague | puts a request in to company legal |
| 15:23.57 | CosmicPenguin | you guys already did a Geode design though - you should have access |
| 15:24.03 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I told the GeckoSystems guy no because of NDA. I just couldn't see them sending me a $20k robot to develop on. |
| 15:24.14 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: we've never done a geode design |
| 15:24.24 | RobotGuy | I don't think it's worth that much for what it does. |
| 15:24.32 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: we've used a geode COTS |
| 15:24.39 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: intergrated with a product |
| 15:24.43 | CosmicPenguin | ah - okay |
| 15:25.14 | prpplague | we don't have anyone at the company that's ever done x86 design |
| 15:25.27 | prpplague | all of those that did do a x86 have left years ago |
| 15:26.14 | prpplague | doh that was quick |
| 15:27.17 | prpplague | we have existing NDA's with Intel and unless we have a very good reason we aren't suppose to do any NDA or confidential info with AMD |
| 15:27.25 | CosmicPenguin | hah |
| 15:27.27 | CosmicPenguin | thats awesome |
| 15:27.55 | prpplague | i suspect that its related to the usage of intel flash and strongarm |
| 15:28.23 | prpplague | requests more details |
| 15:31.38 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i personally think having restricted reference design schematics does cut down on product implementation |
| 15:31.52 | CosmicPenguin | I have no control over that |
| 15:31.54 | MothaWork | it certainly does |
| 15:32.02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: indeed, was just making a statement |
| 15:32.09 | CosmicPenguin | obviously somebody thinks it is reasonable |
| 15:32.11 | MothaWork | even if I have no problem getting the NDA through, that's time that I'm probably spending looking at other stuff |
| 15:32.19 | CosmicPenguin | and to be honest, none of you are anywhere near our target market |
| 15:32.26 | MothaWork | and I may find something else that suits my needs without the NDA |
| 15:32.27 | MothaWork | oh, I'm sure |
| 15:32.33 | MothaWork | I can't move 1M+ units/yr |
| 15:32.36 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: that is true as well |
| 15:32.58 | MothaWork | which pretty much seems to be the volume requirements for that sort of thing these days |
| 15:33.02 | MothaWork | at a bare minimum |
| 15:33.06 | prpplague | yea we are only doing about 100 units per month of the geode based stuff |
| 15:33.07 | CosmicPenguin | I think the DIY hardware segment is too nacient |
| 15:33.15 | MothaWork | this isn't DIY |
| 15:33.33 | MothaWork | it's just lower volume than most companies care about |
| 15:34.00 | CosmicPenguin | Anyway, all I really care about is the software |
| 15:34.27 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe indeed |
| 15:34.44 | CosmicPenguin | I don't have the wherewithall to defend the company's marketing praticices |
| 15:35.00 | prpplague | i'm kinda surprised we haven't seen some geode based UMPCs |
| 15:35.33 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: sorry, we weren't meaning to attack you or AMD, just discussing options |
| 15:35.40 | MothaWork | indeed |
| 15:36.09 | MothaWork | I understand why companies do things like this; I may not agree with them, but I understand where they are coming from |
| 15:36.16 | MothaWork | and of course, you specifically can't really do anything here |
| 15:46.06 | prpplague | i wish i had a dollar for every time i've heard either ICE or USCIS make comments like this 'Ms. Cooper said that at the airport, when she begged to know what was happening to Mr. Salerno, an agent told her, ?You know, he should try spending a little more time in his own country.?' |
| 15:46.39 | chouimat|work | ? |
| 15:47.17 | ohsix | thats what america is, even the mouthbreathers kept it to themselves in the name of political correctness in the past though |
| 15:48.28 | prpplague | chouimat|work: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/us/14visa.html?_r=1&em&ex=1210910400&en=bab7b2f2423d2a00&ei=5087%0A&oref=slogin |
| 15:48.28 | chouimat|work | ice? uscis? |
| 15:48.42 | prpplague | ice=immigration and customs enforcement |
| 15:48.57 | prpplague | uscis= US Customs and Immigration Service |
| 15:49.18 | chouimat|work | prpplague: why you don't simply close your borders and let the rest of the world live in peace, I'm sure we won't even notice it ;) |
| 15:49.39 | prpplague | chouimat|work: i have no say in it |
| 15:49.45 | agaffney | damn those sneaky Italian terrorists |
| 15:52.35 | prpplague | we've not had too much trouble since my wife got her greencard |
| 15:53.04 | prpplague | i'm curious to see if she has trouble coming back into the US after she visits her family in june |
| 15:53.55 | RobotGuy | My latest foray into Gentoo has not been successful. |
| 15:54.03 | MothaWork | prpplague: hell, there are US citizens that have trouble getting back into the US on occasion |
| 15:54.19 | prpplague | MonMotha: indeed |
| 15:54.23 | MothaWork | it seems to very much be how lucky you are that day |
| 15:54.30 | MothaWork | well, and what your ethnicity is, too |
| 15:54.35 | prpplague | MonMotha: yea |
| 15:54.36 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: I can't get out due to not having a passport, not even to Canada. |
| 15:54.42 | MothaWork | so get a passport |
| 15:54.46 | MothaWork | they're not hard to get |
| 15:54.48 | prpplague | MonMotha: they generally give my wife a hard time |
| 15:55.14 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: I haven't had reason to go out of the USA so have not bothered with a passport. Can't afford to travel. |
| 15:55.27 | prpplague | up until last year less than 10% of the US population had passports |
| 15:55.34 | MothaWork | I'm still kinda curious why they decided to do away with the whole "no passport required for Canada" thing |
| 15:55.40 | MothaWork | but it is technically international travel |
| 15:55.50 | chouimat|work | MonMotha: 911 |
| 15:55.51 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: I think it has to do with 9/11 |
| 15:55.55 | MothaWork | oh, I'm sure |
| 15:55.56 | Crofton | can't trust those Canadians |
| 15:56.05 | MothaWork | that's, after all, the reason for anything these days |
| 15:56.08 | MothaWork | NINE.....ELEVEN! |
| 15:56.11 | prpplague | Crofton: hehe, not really the canadians |
| 15:56.11 | chouimat|work | Crofton: true I don't trust myself ;) |
| 15:56.27 | prpplague | Crofton: its the fact the canada lets alot of people in, and then they come across into the US |
| 15:56.27 | RobotGuy | Patriot Act should be repealed. |
| 15:56.51 | MothaWork | prpplague: it's not like you didn't have to present any form of ID before |
| 15:57.33 | chouimat|work | prpplague: we don't let that much "bad people in" it's a myth your media repeat ad nauseam |
| 15:57.43 | prpplague | MonMotha: true, but those types of ID are much easier to fake |
| 15:58.09 | MothaWork | perhaps |
| 15:58.12 | prpplague | chouimat|work: didn't say "bad people" just said people |
| 15:58.35 | MothaWork | passports are some of the more secure forms of photo ID around |
| 15:58.36 | prpplague | chouimat|work: hell, my wife and i could be legal residents in canada in just 30 days |
| 15:58.38 | chouimat|work | prpplague: you have more problem with your border with mexico than with ours |
| 15:58.57 | MothaWork | though, for grins, try to do some age restricted thing with one, like buy alcohol (or heck, rubber cement at Wal-Mart) |
| 15:59.05 | chouimat|work | prpplague: true but you need a job first =) |
| 15:59.07 | MothaWork | they'll go nuts trying to figure out what to put in the DLN field in their POS system |
| 15:59.26 | Crofton | as noted over and over, people that want to get in to the US can get it, regardless of paperwork issues |
| 15:59.29 | chouimat|work | DLN? |
| 15:59.32 | prpplague | chouimat|work: actually no, as long as i can prove income and ability to provide |
| 15:59.41 | Crofton | the current system basically creates hassles for people travelling legally |
| 15:59.42 | MothaWork | "Driver's License Number" |
| 15:59.45 | chouimat|work | prpplague: a job help ;) |
| 16:00.18 | prpplague | chouimat|work: well, my wife gets special treatment since barbados has an immigration treaty with canada |
| 16:00.52 | prpplague | Crofton: " people that want to get in to the US can get it, regardless of paperwork issues" |
| 16:00.52 | chouimat|work | prpplague: true the commonwealth thing |
| 16:00.57 | prpplague | Crofton: you mean legally? |
| 16:01.15 | prpplague | Crofton: or illegally? |
| 16:01.21 | Crofton | people that want to get in, can get it easily, I did not say "legally" |
| 16:01.41 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I think things now do make it harder for legit citizens to travel than it does for those we are trying to protect ourselves from. |
| 16:01.56 | prpplague | Crofton: thats what i thought |
| 16:02.29 | prpplague | most international tech conferences won't even consider being held in the US |
| 16:03.42 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I remember trying to go thru the us/canada border for LWE in New York ... I think a prostate exam is more fun that this |
| 16:03.55 | prpplague | chouimat|work: hehe indeed |
| 16:04.06 | prpplague | chouimat|work: they question you alot? |
| 16:04.20 | prpplague | chouimat|work: they ask if you were friends with osama? |
| 16:04.50 | RobotGuy | chouimat|work: I'd probably have a major anxiety attack trying to travel outside the US, or coming back in. |
| 16:04.54 | chouimat|work | prpplague: 30 to 45 minutes ... is KDE a canadian or american product? no it's international. impossible etc etc ... it's opensource ... oh you're a communist |
| 16:05.23 | prpplague | chouimat|work: wow 30 to 45 minutes? |
| 16:05.53 | chouimat|work | prpplague: yes ... now I simply say I'm going to see friends ... how can you be friend with honest american ? |
| 16:05.57 | prpplague | chouimat|work: i had a laptop destroyed on the way back in from canada once |
| 16:06.10 | prpplague | chouimat|work: it didn't boot windows so they figured it was fake |
| 16:06.19 | chouimat|work | rofl |
| 16:06.20 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Did it get replaced? |
| 16:06.37 | prpplague | RobotGuy: nope, they are under no obligation to compensate you |
| 16:07.12 | MothaWork | heh, if you have one of those "accidental damage" insurance programs, just tell them border patrol destroyed it |
| 16:07.16 | MothaWork | I'm sure they'd get a kick out of that |
| 16:07.20 | RobotGuy | prpplague: What happened to destroy the laptop? |
| 16:07.31 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no idea |
| 16:08.03 | adyer | RobotGuy: did you see the movie of the BigDog robot? |
| 16:08.15 | RobotGuy | adyer: Yes, I have seen several of BigDog. |
| 16:09.21 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I'm doing tutorials at Trossen Robotics now. They want embedded stuff. |
| 16:09.45 | prpplague | cool |
| 16:10.55 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Users there are starting to ask about Hammer sometimes. |
| 16:11.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: good deall |
| 16:11.19 | prpplague | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/06/AR2008020604763.html |
| 16:13.10 | prpplague | when they took mine, they had some disassemble it right there on the table |
| 16:13.46 | prpplague | took cotton swabs on every and tested it with what looked to be chromatograph |
| 16:13.54 | prpplague | s/every/every piece |
| 16:14.10 | prpplague | i guess they thought i was smuggling drugs or something |
| 16:20.34 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@72.22.143.246) |
| 16:23.53 | *** join/#edev monmotha_ (n=monmotha@66.208.186.250) |
| 16:24.44 | SpeedEvil | I'd rather they search the insides of my laptop than my insides :) |
| 16:42.18 | RobotGuy | has to reinstall Linux. |
| 17:04.54 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: http://www.xconomy.com/2008/05/20/negroponte-unveils-2nd-generation-olpc-laptop-its-an-e-book/ |
| 17:05.13 | prpplague | no mention of OS |
| 17:07.18 | CosmicPenguin | I saw that - based on the design, I'm thinking a SoC |
| 17:07.32 | CosmicPenguin | Not sure which vendor |
| 17:08.41 | prpplague | i'm gonna guess either marvell or TI |
| 17:08.58 | prpplague | if he's planning on using dvd player lcd's he's gonna need a SoC that supports that |
| 17:09.02 | prpplague | omap3 comes to mind |
| 17:09.12 | CosmicPenguin | freescale could be in the mix too |
| 17:09.15 | prpplague | but i'm surprised at the cost of the LCD's |
| 17:09.35 | CosmicPenguin | But they already have the existing relationship with marvell, so thats a plus |
| 17:10.07 | CosmicPenguin | If they are just going for ebook, I guess they could get by with no MMU |
| 17:11.24 | prpplague | yea they could, but no real reason not to use a SoC with mmu, cost difference these days is almost nothing |
| 17:11.32 | CosmicPenguin | true that |
| 17:16.07 | prpplague | interesting idea though |
| 17:16.38 | prpplague | you could almost do a proof-of-concept with the hammer |
| 17:18.00 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i wonder if they will be feeding the data to the lcd's via ntsc/pal or just using a custom timming circuit? |
| 17:18.24 | CosmicPenguin | probably use a custom circuit |
| 17:18.31 | CosmicPenguin | I have to imagine |
| 17:18.44 | prpplague | kind of defeats the puprose of using a cheap display |
| 17:18.52 | *** join/#edev monmotha_ (n=monmotha@66.208.186.250) |
| 17:18.56 | CosmicPenguin | asics are cheap |
| 17:19.42 | prpplague | hmm, i just got the impression they were trying to do some COTS for the displays |
| 17:20.08 | CosmicPenguin | for the physical displays - but that says nothing about the internals |
| 17:20.39 | CosmicPenguin | They can build on the DCON design and use something like that for cheap |
| 17:21.11 | prpplague | DCON design? i assume thats the design for the XO lcd |
| 17:24.55 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: were there any public whitepapers/documents regarding the hardware of the XO with regards to pros/cons of the design? |
| 17:25.08 | CosmicPenguin | I don't think so |
| 17:25.15 | prpplague | interesting |
| 17:25.38 | CosmicPenguin | Thats due to complete lack of interest |
| 17:25.42 | prpplague | i'd really like to know what the general concenses was about using the wifi via usb |
| 17:26.08 | CosmicPenguin | And also because the people who really understand the story either cannot or will not speak |
| 17:26.33 | prpplague | interesting indeed |
| 17:26.56 | CosmicPenguin | <--- cannot |
| 17:27.03 | prpplague | seems like people would want to build upon the XO's success/failure |
| 17:27.06 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: oh? |
| 17:27.19 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you were given specific instructions |
| 17:27.24 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ?? |
| 17:27.27 | CosmicPenguin | They are a customer - if you were my customer, would you want me blabing about your design? |
| 17:28.17 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ahh i see |
| 17:28.45 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i guess i need to read up some more about the OLPC orginization |
| 17:28.50 | CosmicPenguin | I can tell you that there is nothing secret about the design |
| 17:29.01 | CosmicPenguin | all of the pros and cons are open for somebody who is willing to research them |
| 17:29.39 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea, i've got my opinions, but i'm always curious as what conclusions other people reach |
| 17:29.46 | CosmicPenguin | But as is normally the case, most everybody would rather stand to the side and throw rocks at the project rather then involve themselves in the nitty gritty |
| 17:30.04 | prpplague | including myself |
| 17:30.07 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:30.50 | prpplague | i still think i could do a small laptop, not industrial style like the XO, but a basic one pretty cheap |
| 17:31.09 | prpplague | i'm still surprised that oregon scientific and vtech haven't jumped into the market |
| 17:31.17 | CosmicPenguin | its a tough market to be in |
| 17:31.30 | CosmicPenguin | especially when trying to sell to the western world |
| 17:31.38 | prpplague | vtech's color blast sells for $129 and its one of the biggest sellers |
| 17:32.10 | CosmicPenguin | Here is an example story - my half brother just turned 13 |
| 17:32.17 | CosmicPenguin | My father wanted to buy him a laptop |
| 17:32.29 | CosmicPenguin | Which one did he ask for, do you ask? |
| 17:32.39 | SpeedEvil | apple thin one? |
| 17:32.42 | SpeedEvil | teh air? |
| 17:32.43 | CosmicPenguin | The 4000 alienware laptop, of course |
| 17:32.46 | CosmicPenguin | $4000 |
| 17:32.49 | SpeedEvil | ... |
| 17:32.53 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:32.56 | CosmicPenguin | because he had been raised all his life with powerful gaming hardware |
| 17:33.16 | SpeedEvil | Are you from an oil oligarchy? |
| 17:33.35 | CosmicPenguin | heh - I'm not saying he got it.. :) |
| 17:33.51 | SpeedEvil | I was contemplating bad things with a top-of-the-line toshiba laptop. |
| 17:34.18 | CosmicPenguin | But what I am saying is that western children are raised with a certain expectation of what computing power should be |
| 17:34.19 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hmm |
| 17:34.21 | SpeedEvil | They were offering a 'if it breaks, we repair it, and send you a cheque for the purchase price'. |
| 17:35.40 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: indeed |
| 17:35.46 | CosmicPenguin | It is unfortunate |
| 17:35.59 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i still think there is a good market for midrange laptops |
| 17:36.03 | SpeedEvil | Me too. |
| 17:36.21 | CosmicPenguin | Because, really, honestly, you don't need flash and javascript and HD video to educate yourself |
| 17:36.28 | CosmicPenguin | or to join the world community |
| 17:36.31 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: and i think vtech and/or oregon scientific have the expertise in making the low end laptops style devices to make it appeal to the yonger crowd |
| 17:36.33 | SpeedEvil | I want to replace my PII/300 - which is about the same size/shape as an EEE with something a bit more designed. |
| 17:37.02 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: geeks.com has some of the eeepc's for around $300 |
| 17:37.18 | SpeedEvil | is in the UK though. |
| 17:37.27 | SpeedEvil | Shipping is a bastard, then there is import duty. |
| 17:37.33 | SpeedEvil | And VAT. |
| 17:37.41 | SpeedEvil | So 23% or so and shipping |
| 17:39.43 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: believe me i know, its the same in barbados |
| 17:40.08 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: http://www2.oregonscientific.com/shop/product.asp?cid=8&scid=128&pid=799 |
| 17:40.47 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: now wouldn't that appeal to kids if it were able to access the net? |
| 17:41.01 | CosmicPenguin | I just don't know |
| 17:41.48 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:41.53 | prpplague | me ether |
| 17:41.54 | CosmicPenguin | There comes a point where they start to get dazzled by the pretty colors and what their friends are doing |
| 17:42.18 | CosmicPenguin | If you can teach them early enough that the computer is a useful tool, then you might have a chance |
| 17:42.24 | CosmicPenguin | but how many 6 year olds are interested in tools? :) |
| 17:42.24 | prpplague | needs to collect some info on a hammer based web server |
| 17:42.38 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: not many |
| 17:44.07 | SpeedEvil | The connection was refused when attempting to contact www2.oregonscientific.com |
| 17:44.09 | SpeedEvil | odd |
| 17:45.06 | prpplague | thats is odd |
| 17:45.18 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: oh you are in the UK |
| 17:45.28 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: thats the US site |
| 17:45.42 | SpeedEvil | Sure - but connection refused? |
| 17:45.48 | prpplague | yea |
| 17:45.54 | prpplague | i can't connect to the UK site |
| 17:46.06 | SpeedEvil | That's a little eccentric. |
| 17:46.34 | prpplague | http://www.oregonscientific.co.uk/prod_starwarslaptop.htm |
| 17:46.36 | prpplague | try that |
| 17:46.51 | prpplague | i can go through an anon website to access the UK pages |
| 17:47.20 | SpeedEvil | Hmm |
| 17:47.32 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: oregon scientific has a number of kids laptops that are only available in the UK |
| 17:48.08 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: this one is pretty much an entire pc - http://www.oregonscientific.co.uk/prod_acceleratorpctrainerii.htm |
| 17:48.28 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: has all the major components with the minor detail of using a 8051 |
| 17:49.49 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: this one looks almost identical to a panasonic toughbook when its closed - http://www.oregonscientific.co.uk/prod_acceleratorx18.htm |
| 17:49.58 | prpplague | and yes, i have one of all of these |
| 17:51.11 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: were you able to access those pages? |
| 17:51.15 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 17:51.20 | SpeedEvil | Look interesting. |
| 17:51.36 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: they have large amount of space inside for pcb's |
| 17:51.49 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: and most them either use 4 or 6 AA batteries |
| 17:51.54 | SpeedEvil | Out of interest - what would something like hammer inside those cost at 10K? |
| 17:51.56 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: which means plenty of standard power |
| 17:52.17 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: well i found a chinese manufacturer that does cheap knock offs |
| 17:52.44 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: we can get a complete plastics with keyboard and mouse, minus the cpu board for around $10 |
| 17:52.55 | SpeedEvil | Nice. |
| 17:53.01 | SpeedEvil | At what volume? |
| 17:53.04 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: 10k |
| 17:53.33 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: there should be a log of #edev where landley and i discussed it |
| 17:54.12 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 17:54.50 | prpplague | http://cgi.ebay.com/CHILDS-LAPTOP-KIDS-COMPUTER-22-x3-A-VITIES-GAMES_W0QQitemZ290230019840QQihZ019QQcategoryZ150929QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 17:55.00 | prpplague | thats the one i checked on iirc |
| 17:56.35 | prpplague | wow looks like vtech has a new touch screen unit |
| 17:57.03 | prpplague | ahh no, its a repackage of their old one |
| 17:58.45 | SpeedEvil | Add a $15 reasonablle sized (3.5") colour LCD, a bluetooth dongle - $3, and ... |
| 17:59.15 | MothaWork | where are you finding 3.5" color LCDs for $15? |
| 17:59.25 | SpeedEvil | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3161 |
| 17:59.34 | SpeedEvil | replacement NDS screens |
| 17:59.35 | MothaWork | oh, dealextreme |
| 17:59.40 | MothaWork | good luck |
| 17:59.45 | SpeedEvil | I'm assuming they are available in bulk at about that price |
| 17:59.53 | SpeedEvil | I'm just using DX as a price reference. |
| 18:01.08 | SpeedEvil | I've had no problems with DX. Other than slow shipping. |
| 18:02.19 | MothaWork | really slow shipping |
| 18:02.29 | prpplague | $15 for a 320x240 is reasonable |
| 18:03.23 | SpeedEvil | What would a hammer-like thing cost at 10K? $30? |
| 18:04.36 | prpplague | with a pcb to fit in side, probably around $38-40 |
| 18:07.25 | RobotGuy | I would love to have a small laptop I could carry with me easily when I take Hammer and W.A.L.T.E.R. out. |
| 18:07.47 | SpeedEvil | Which'd make the retail what - $150? |
| 18:07.57 | *** part/#edev Mr_Bonga (n=Rui_Silv@194.65.138.120) |
| 18:10.20 | RobotGuy | I want a real laptop though. |
| 18:10.48 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: i'd want to retail it for less than $100 |
| 18:10.54 | RobotGuy | I might try building something around the Virtual COGs i.MX21 board. |
| 18:11.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you look at the eee pc's at geeks.com? |
| 18:11.08 | CosmicPenguin | "I want a real laptop though" <-- and therein is the failuire |
| 18:11.16 | CosmicPenguin | game set match |
| 18:11.24 | prpplague | exactly |
| 18:11.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I will look. No, I haven't yet. |
| 18:12.02 | RobotGuy | CosmicPenguin: Well, by that I meant it has to be able to do laptop kinds of things. |
| 18:12.15 | RobotGuy | Has to run full Linux, of course. :) |
| 18:12.37 | RobotGuy | I don't care about being able to run games on it. |
| 18:13.54 | RobotGuy | It would have to be capable of running X reasonably well. |
| 18:17.52 | RobotGuy | I wonder what "ASUS customized Linux" means. |
| 18:18.18 | chouimat|work | RobotGuy: which device? |
| 18:18.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=EEEPC4G-701-WHT-R&cat=NBB |
| 18:19.24 | chouimat|work | RobotGuy: "ASUS customized Linux" mean based on xandros crapy distro :) |
| 18:19.40 | chouimat|work | still has a lot of anger against this company |
| 18:19.43 | RobotGuy | chouimat|work: I' |
| 18:20.00 | RobotGuy | chouimat|work: I'd want to be able to put my choice if Linux on it. |
| 18:20.52 | chouimat|work | RobotGuy: you will be able iirc |
| 18:21.06 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea i'd go for the one thats just $309 |
| 18:22.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I was going for a little more speed. :) |
| 18:23.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hehe, yea i figured, 800mhz is plenty for me |
| 18:24.14 | RobotGuy | prpplague: For not much more, they have a refurb Acer Aspire (1.73 GHz). |
| 18:24.15 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: might driving over to longmont and breaking some knee-caps for me? |
| 18:24.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Is there an EE involved? |
| 18:24.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: my stepdaughters father |
| 18:25.09 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ugh. One of those, eh? |
| 18:25.20 | prpplague | yea |
| 18:25.32 | prpplague | jerking us around on child support and medical stuff |
| 18:28.03 | RobotGuy | That sucks. I have two stepfathers. I don't talk to any of my family anymore. |
| 18:30.05 | agaffney | family sucks |
| 18:30.33 | agaffney | I've got a stepfather, an ex-stepmother, and a soon-to-be stepmother |
| 18:32.03 | chouimat|work | agaffney: at least you have several words for this ... in french step/half-brother/sister is the same words, same thing for stepmother and mother-in-law (father too) |
| 18:33.34 | RobotGuy | prpplague: My Hammer is going to be controlling an arm that has 4 joints (4DOF) plus a 2DOF gripper. Might go to 5DOF on the arm itself. |
| 18:33.35 | *** join/#edev _trine (n=trine@38.100.90.3) |
| 18:33.55 | RobotGuy | I got a package, but not from TCT. |
| 18:34.29 | prpplague | doh |
| 18:40.34 | RobotGuy | Replacement DSL modem. |
| 18:44.01 | RobotGuy | Any laptop thing I get might be required to run Windows for some stuff. :( For my Gadget Guy thing I do at a local care facility. |
| 18:52.20 | RobotGuy | thinks about reinstalling Gentoo |
| 18:52.43 | prpplague | will be install F9 this evening |
| 18:52.54 | RobotGuy | Fedora 9? WHY? |
| 18:52.54 | prpplague | tried to install it last night, but didn't have disk 4 |
| 18:53.06 | *** join/#edev _trine (n=trine@38.100.90.3) |
| 18:55.53 | prpplague | RobotGuy: because redhat/fedora is my prefered desktop |
| 18:57.34 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Have you tried Ubuntu or Kubuntu? |
| 18:57.47 | prpplague | yea |
| 18:57.54 | prpplague | not found of either |
| 18:57.57 | prpplague | fond |
| 18:58.16 | RobotGuy | Ah, OK. I prefer Kubuntu for a ready to run desktop. |
| 18:59.23 | RobotGuy | I really want to get Gentoo working right though. Still don't know what I did to mess it up, and that bothers me. |
| 18:59.39 | prpplague | RobotGuy: other than slackware and yggdrasil, i pretty much have been a redhat guy |
| 18:59.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i still have some redhat 4 cd's |
| 19:00.06 | agaffney | RobotGuy: what do you *think* you did to it? |
| 19:00.11 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Is started out before there was a Redhat. I remember Redhat 4 and 5. |
| 19:00.18 | RobotGuy | agaffney: I have no idea. :( |
| 19:00.28 | agaffney | RobotGuy: what is it [not] doing? |
| 19:00.45 | RobotGuy | agaffney: Couldn't update system. Couldn't emerge some software. |
| 19:00.53 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what linux distro did you use prior to redhat existance? |
| 19:01.07 | agaffney | I started with RH 5.1 |
| 19:01.09 | agaffney | briefly |
| 19:01.13 | agaffney | then slack for a few years |
| 19:01.16 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It was mostly slackware, which was really primative at that time. |
| 19:01.22 | agaffney | then RH 8.x for ~6 months |
| 19:01.28 | agaffney | then Gentoo for the past 5+ years |
| 19:01.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea i was using yggdrasil and slack back in 97 |
| 19:01.56 | RobotGuy | agaffney: I should have asked you for help instead of on #gentoo. |
| 19:02.09 | agaffney | #gentoo is mostly worthless |
| 19:02.17 | RobotGuy | agaffney: I figured that out |
| 19:02.18 | agaffney | there are a few devs in there and people who actually know what's going on |
| 19:02.20 | *** join/#edev g1powermac (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 19:02.28 | agaffney | but the SNR is very low |
| 19:02.29 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Welcome back! |
| 19:02.42 | RobotGuy | agaffney: Santana? |
| 19:03.02 | agaffney | eh? |
| 19:03.12 | agaffney | Signal to Noise Ratio :P |
| 19:03.20 | RobotGuy | agaffney: He was trying to help me but complained I did not respond fast enough. |
| 19:04.08 | chouimat|work | agaffney: you mean in #gentoo you mostly have: I used -O3 -ffreeze-your-computer ? |
| 19:04.35 | RobotGuy | Santana on #gentoo |
| 19:05.18 | g1powermac | hey RobotGuy |
| 19:06.44 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: The arm on W.A.L.T.E.R. is now 4DOF (may go to 5DOF) with a 2DOF gripper. |
| 19:06.51 | g1powermac | just got back from touring his prospective new college :-) |
| 19:06.56 | g1powermac | nice |
| 19:07.35 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Controlling it is going to be interesting. I put the pan down about 1/2 way on the arm. |
| 19:07.56 | g1powermac | yea |
| 19:07.58 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: And it has one double joint. It's like no robot arm you have ever seen. |
| 19:08.28 | g1powermac | ya, got to take some good shots of it |
| 19:08.30 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: It's actually more like a neck than an arm. |
| 19:09.12 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Hmmm, I just got another idea.. |
| 19:10.11 | g1powermac | whats that? |
| 19:10.37 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Move the wrist rotate of the gripper up to just before the pan servo of the arm. |
| 19:10.52 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Going to need a beefier servo to do that though. |
| 19:10.55 | g1powermac | hmm |
| 19:11.00 | g1powermac | that'd be interesting |
| 19:11.57 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: I need to be able to rotate the entire gripper/arm part when the arm reaches into W.A.L.T.E.R.'s cargo deck. |
| 19:12.51 | agaffney | chouimat|work: yes :P |
| 19:12.58 | agaffney | RobotGuy: oh, I don't know most of the people in #gentoo |
| 19:12.59 | chouimat|work | agaffney: :) |
| 19:13.01 | agaffney | I never go in there |
| 19:13.06 | RobotGuy | I need to flip the front part of the arm 90 degrees. |
| 19:13.14 | agaffney | my brain hurts after ~30 seconds |
| 19:13.32 | RobotGuy | agaffney: My brain hurt after about -20 seconds. |
| 19:13.39 | agaffney | heh |
| 19:13.42 | agaffney | sounds 'bout right |
| 19:14.06 | chouimat|work | had about 7 phone calls from the fruitcake since Sunday :( |
| 19:14.39 | agaffney | which fruitcake? |
| 19:15.00 | chouimat|work | agaffney: wait |
| 19:15.16 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: I just have to wire up a few more bits of hardware (motor controller, servos to servo controller, etc) and I will be ready to start actually controlling the robot. |
| 19:15.26 | g1powermac | cool |
| 19:15.33 | *** join/#edev likewise (n=likewise@82-171-51-231.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 19:15.56 | chouimat|work | agaffney: this one http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/2523 |
| 19:16.05 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Or at least starting to test out everything. I can already controll the SSC-32 using Python. |
| 19:18.19 | RobotGuy | I just need to wire up some interface components I need to get for the carrier board to shift levels to 5V. |
| 19:18.35 | RobotGuy | And back to 3.3V |
| 19:19.08 | agaffney | "The USA will be destroyed, attack by the |
| 19:19.10 | agaffney | Canada, supported by Europe and Asia." |
| 19:19.12 | agaffney | nice :P |
| 19:19.16 | RobotGuy | I have some TI level shifter chips now for I2C. |
| 19:20.03 | chouimat|work | agaffney: the guy is sick ... and no I won't work with him anymore, I just hope they could keep it in jail for longer :) |
| 19:20.08 | agaffney | wtf... |
| 19:20.13 | agaffney | fruitcake, indeed |
| 19:20.30 | agaffney | coffee puts synthetic fear in your brain? neat! |
| 19:20.36 | agaffney | much better than that *real* fear |
| 19:20.45 | agaffney | less calories |
| 19:20.59 | chouimat|work | agaffney: and only available from Recall ;) |
| 19:21.03 | SpeedEvil | Depends on if it's Kopi Luwak or not. |
| 19:21.30 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Can I use 2N7000's to shift levels both ways between 3.3V and 5V? |
| 19:21.50 | chouimat|work | agaffney: I have the original in French and it was hard to translate ;) |
| 19:21.53 | RobotGuy | prpplague: This would be for stuff like the second serial port. |
| 19:22.03 | agaffney | chouimat|work: the meaning comes across fine |
| 19:22.12 | prpplague | RobotGuy: not sure i understand your question |
| 19:22.17 | chouimat|work | agaffney: I mean for my brain ;) |
| 19:22.21 | agaffney | hah |
| 19:22.31 | agaffney | my brain hurts a bit just after reading it in english |
| 19:22.38 | RobotGuy | Why am I not able to communicate? |
| 19:22.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: start off by telling me what you want to accomplish |
| 19:23.08 | RobotGuy | prpplague: When I wire the second serial port up to use with the SSC-32 (5V I/O). |
| 19:23.19 | SpeedEvil | He means like http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nxp.com%2Facrobat_download%2Fapplicationnotes%2FAN10441_1.pdf&ei=DiUzSJDPNo_cwgHLiP2tDg&usg=AFQjCNFFjtUBLydF5wd_UMsGEYZr_t1huw&sig2=ijoLXDJoHQiZX5nuSYXknw |
| 19:23.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: SSC-32 takes TTL serial or RS-232. |
| 19:23.29 | SpeedEvil | www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/applicationnotes/AN10441_1.pdf even |
| 19:23.57 | chouimat|work | agaffney: so imagine working for him ... at the begin his sickness wasn't this bad but since 2003 it become more and more difficult to work with. I was lead software guy and the "Virgin Mary" was overruling all my design decision |
| 19:24.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: if you are doing ttl shifting from 3.3v to 5v , you only need the 2n7000 to "pump up" the 3.3v to 5v |
| 19:24.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy: to go down from 5v. simply add a resistor |
| 19:24.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ah, OK. |
| 19:24.36 | prpplague | RobotGuy: have a look at the schematic for SFE smirf boards |
| 19:24.55 | SpeedEvil | 99% of 5V inputs will accept 3.3V as high |
| 19:25.17 | agaffney | chouimat|work: was this in a corporate environment or some over-the-internet OSS project? |
| 19:25.18 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Hammer is 3.3V only. |
| 19:25.36 | chouimat|work | agaffney: corporate ... he's a former partner of mine |
| 19:25.45 | agaffney | ugh |
| 19:25.48 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: sure - but outputs from the hammer - at 3.3V logic high - will be read by most 5V logic as high |
| 19:25.57 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, sorry, I haven't been paying attention to IRC there for a bit |
| 19:26.04 | agaffney | chouimat|work: I work for a religious company, and I don't get the Virgin Mary overriding my decisions :P |
| 19:26.12 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Most is not good enough for me. I will translate the levels properly. :) |
| 19:26.26 | g1powermac | currently writing emails out to college admission guys and the grad school for my biomed engineer degree |
| 19:26.31 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: read the datasheet - all 74* logic families will accept it |
| 19:26.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: are you sure the ssc-32 is +5v? |
| 19:26.38 | chouimat|work | agaffney: took me about a year of therapy to be able to get out of the depression I was when I stopped working with him |
| 19:26.44 | SpeedEvil | (all 5V logic families) |
| 19:26.57 | RobotGuy | prpplague: 5V TTL or RS-232 on the serial port of the SSC-32. |
| 19:27.06 | chouimat|work | agaffney: I was looking at my computers and I was feeling sick |
| 19:27.14 | agaffney | chouimat|work: you should have tried to get the company to pay for it, since they exposed you to him |
| 19:27.23 | agaffney | that would probably work in the US :P |
| 19:27.45 | chouimat|work | agaffney: that would have been difficult he was the boss |
| 19:27.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy: http://www.lynxmotion.com/images/html/build117.htm |
| 19:27.53 | prpplague | goes to get kids |
| 19:27.55 | agaffney | chouimat|work: there wasn't anyone above him? |
| 19:27.58 | chouimat|work | no |
| 19:28.01 | agaffney | bleh |
| 19:28.03 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: do you have one of those ssc boards? |
| 19:28.31 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I have two of them. |
| 19:28.39 | agaffney | chouimat|work: I would have started looking for another job after the first time that the mythical mother of a mythical character started dictating how I coded |
| 19:28.40 | chouimat|work | agaffney: and back then I needed the money and I had invested too much in the projects ( I lost abnout 750k) |
| 19:28.47 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: one option is to read the datasheet for the chip connected to the serial, and see what it's guaranteed to accept. |
| 19:28.50 | agaffney | ehhh |
| 19:29.11 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I am just going to stick with level translation. It's easier. |
| 19:29.16 | chouimat|work | agaffney: I'm now legally the owner of everything I coded for him |
| 19:29.17 | SpeedEvil | Fair enough. |
| 19:29.45 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: I wouldn't go with the two transistor level translator in that case, but fit something that actually gave isolation. |
| 19:29.52 | RobotGuy | Easier is almost always better for me. :) |
| 19:30.04 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: I mean isolation in case of faults - not galvanic |
| 19:30.23 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: OK, so what would you go with in this case? Something easy to deal with? |
| 19:30.52 | SpeedEvil | a 3.3V-RS232 converter chip |
| 19:30.53 | SpeedEvil | max* |
| 19:31.03 | SpeedEvil | If you want something guaranteed to work |
| 19:31.06 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: P/N? |
| 19:31.35 | RobotGuy | I don't want to translate to RS-232 though, just 3.3V TTL to 5V TTL. |
| 19:32.04 | agaffney | chouimat|work: at my work, I don't have a contract, so technically, I probably own everything I've coded here in the last 3.5 years |
| 19:32.13 | agaffney | which is the entire internal system |
| 19:32.38 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: in that case, a 3V logic gate chip, connected to the 3.3V rail |
| 19:32.39 | RobotGuy | agaffney: You should check you legal stand on that. |
| 19:32.49 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: 0-3.3V is TTL compliant |
| 19:33.33 | SpeedEvil | RobotGuy: one gate that the input goes through, with a 10K resistor in series, one that the output goes through. |
| 19:33.42 | SpeedEvil | the input from the TTL thingy |
| 19:33.44 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I do not know if the SSC-32 will work with 3.3V TTL. It would sure be nice if it would though because that would allow me to tie the Hammer serial port directly to the SSC-32 TTL serial. |
| 19:34.01 | SpeedEvil | TTL is 'Transistor Transistor Logic'. |
| 19:34.21 | SpeedEvil | It's a group of standard logic chips, with a few gates each. |
| 19:34.21 | ohsix | totally titular logic |
| 19:34.32 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I know that. Been tinkering with electronics since High School, but just getting back into it after not doing it for a long time. |
| 19:34.45 | SpeedEvil | There are several families - HC, S, F, C, .... - all of the 5V supplied ones will accept 3.3V as 'high' |
| 19:34.51 | RobotGuy | I am mostly a digital guy though. |
| 19:35.19 | RobotGuy | Used to do circuit minimizations in my head. |
| 19:35.31 | SpeedEvil | A blender is quicker. |
| 19:35.50 | agaffney | RobotGuy: I don't really care...I don't want the code :P |
| 19:36.02 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Is there an app note that shows what you are talking about with the gates? |
| 19:37.00 | g1powermac | SpeedEvil, I got a blendtec waiting for some action ;-) |
| 19:45.07 | ds2 | did anyone EVER use SLS?! |
| 19:54.26 | ds2 | Mmmmm touch screens on the XO |
| 19:55.24 | CosmicPenguin | Not on the XO |
| 19:56.00 | CosmicPenguin | on the next product produced by the organization that also produced the XO-1 |
| 19:59.26 | *** join/#edev magnetron (n=magnetro@unaffiliated/magnetron) |
| 20:26.13 | MothaWork | 74C and HC are not guaranteed to accept 3.3V as "high" when operating off of 5V |
| 20:26.28 | MothaWork | CMOS "high" is 0.7Vcc, which would be 3.5V |
| 20:27.09 | MothaWork | there's 74HCT, which has guaranteed TTL compatible thresholds (so 2.7V "high"), and are therefore guaranteed to accept 3.3V as a logic high when running at 5V Vcc |
| 20:27.26 | MothaWork | 74S, LS, an F are all TTL in nature, and therefore exhibit TTL thresholds |
| 20:27.41 | MothaWork | that said, it'll usually work |
| 20:28.25 | prpplague | hehe, anyone interested in slightly abused hammer kit with lots of extras? hehe |
| 20:28.29 | MothaWork | if you want to translate 3.3V logic levels to RS-232, use a MAX3232 or similar |
| 20:28.55 | RobotGuy | prpplague: How much? |
| 20:29.39 | RobotGuy | prpplague: How abused? :) |
| 20:30.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: probably something like $135+shipping |
| 20:30.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the 5v regulator onboard the hammer has been removed so it runs complete on 3.3v |
| 20:30.34 | prpplague | RobotGuy: and the carrier board has been soldered to |
| 20:30.47 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Hmmmmmm. It won't last long, so I wouldn't be able to get it. |
| 20:30.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i know you got plenty of stuff |
| 20:31.13 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Spares would be nice. I'll probably just get another carrier board. |
| 20:31.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I can always make room for more stuff. :) |
| 20:32.33 | RobotGuy | My finances are going to be in DEEP doo doo for a few months. :( |
| 20:33.07 | RobotGuy | I had to beg to keep my internet this month. Won't be able to do that next month. |
| 20:39.19 | prpplague | is waiting for his stimulus check |
| 20:42.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: well if you know someone that might be interested, i'd take $135+shipping via paypal |
| 20:42.18 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I will keep that in mind. |
| 20:42.39 | prpplague | checks to see what other gadgets he needs to liquidate |
| 20:42.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I bet you'd get hits from PARTS. |
| 20:43.13 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 20:44.22 | agaffney | prpplague: my stimulus check went to pay bills :P |
| 20:44.35 | prpplague | agaffney: hehe, you get a paper check or direct deposit |
| 20:44.50 | agaffney | direct |
| 20:45.04 | agaffney | it was a surprise :P |
| 20:45.22 | agaffney | I wasn't paying any attention to stuff about the stimulus payments |
| 20:45.32 | agaffney | I didn't know they'd be doing direct deposit or that it would come so soon |
| 20:45.46 | agaffney | so I was quite surprised to find $1200 in my checking account :P |
| 20:48.43 | prpplague | nice |
| 20:48.55 | prpplague | mine is suppose to a paper check |
| 20:50.02 | agaffney | you apparently get direct deposit if you chose to have your refund for your taxes (or payment) taken from your bank account |
| 20:51.25 | prpplague | yea |
| 20:51.28 | CosmicPenguin | I stimulated my interest rate |
| 20:51.48 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:52.12 | RobotGuy | CosmicPenguin: Is EE Times worthwhile having? |
| 20:52.20 | CosmicPenguin | I dunno |
| 20:52.24 | CosmicPenguin | I don't subscribe |
| 20:52.33 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no |
| 20:52.38 | RobotGuy | I'm getting a free subscription, so I will find out. |
| 20:52.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: circuit cellar is better |
| 20:52.48 | CosmicPenguin | I'm a CS, not a EE |
| 20:53.15 | CosmicPenguin | The difference being that I don't actually produce anything of value |
| 20:53.25 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I know about Circuit Cellar. I wish I could afford to subscribe to that, Servo, and Nuts & Volts. Had subscriptions but had to let them expire. :( :( |
| 20:54.04 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: circuit cellar and "Nuts & Volts" are kinda like electronics mags for non-EE's |
| 20:54.25 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: lots of howtos and explainations |
| 20:54.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: They are wonderful for that! Gotta love 'em! |
| 20:54.43 | CosmicPenguin | heh |
| 20:54.50 | CosmicPenguin | what about "Soldering for idiots?" |
| 20:55.11 | RobotGuy | CosmicPenguin: They have that sort of thing sometimes. Spark Fun has great tutorials for that and other stuff also. |
| 20:55.45 | CosmicPenguin | Perhaps this weekend I'll start work on halloween |
| 20:55.47 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: actually they have that as well |
| 20:55.49 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: http://www.circuitcellar.com/archives/viewable/214-Rusch/index.html |
| 20:55.57 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you can look at some of the articles for free |
| 20:57.12 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: stuff like this - http://www.circuitcellar.com/library/print/0806/Wu193/index.htm |
| 20:58.37 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: this one is really good - http://www.circuitcellar.com/library/print/0406/Armitage-189/index.htm |
| 20:58.48 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i've thought about adding that to the nail board |
| 20:59.12 | CosmicPenguin | cute |
| 21:01.32 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you could add the cc2500 on a small board to the nail |
| 21:01.42 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: be real easy to collect 2.4ghz data |
| 21:01.57 | CosmicPenguin | if you say so |
| 21:02.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I just mentioned your Hammer Kit on Trossen Robotics forums. |
| 21:02.44 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you mean the fun box? |
| 21:02.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'd rather not sell it to someone i don't know |
| 21:03.04 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I'm not sure I understand your comment. :P |
| 21:03.18 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I'd own that kit if I had the money, believe me. |
| 21:03.49 | prpplague | RobotGuy: because this hammer kit is slightly used i don't want anyone who is a first time user of the hammer getting the wrong idea about the board |
| 21:04.16 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ah, OK, that is understandable. |
| 21:06.03 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I still need to rewire power and ground to my compass and bt modules on my carrier. |
| 21:07.10 | RobotGuy | The compass is I2C. |
| 21:12.30 | prpplague | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9047481010.html |
| 21:14.16 | g1powermac | prpplague, well now thats interesting |
| 21:17.07 | agaffney | indeed |
| 21:17.10 | agaffney | very interesting |
| 21:17.47 | RobotGuy | Extremely interesting. I bet TCT could do that with an S3C2440A. |
| 21:17.51 | g1powermac | the website that sells them though seems a little shady |
| 21:17.54 | prpplague | now wouldn't it be interesting to have a UMPC that had a cpu module socket where you could plug in either a atom, arm11, or mips cpu |
| 21:18.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy: plastics are expensive |
| 21:18.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Light aluminum maybe? |
| 21:19.13 | g1powermac | its prolly just setting up the machining for the casing is the most expensive part |
| 21:19.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hehe, it isn't the actual plastic or metal that is expensive, its the tool to create the part that is expensive |
| 21:19.46 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ahhhhh, OK. |
| 21:20.17 | prpplague | for our new pda, we have 4 plastic parts and the tooling for those is close to $100k |
| 21:20.25 | RobotGuy | Yikes! |
| 21:20.31 | g1powermac | yikes, but not unexpected |
| 21:20.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Is that an AML thing? |
| 21:20.53 | prpplague | now, each of the pieces of plastic come to about $0.05 each when made |
| 21:21.02 | g1powermac | heh, of course |
| 21:21.09 | prpplague | RobotGuy: sorry, don't understand your question |
| 21:21.23 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Is that new PDA an AML thing? |
| 21:21.32 | prpplague | yea |
| 21:21.53 | RobotGuy | The iPAQ rx2715 uses the 2440A. |
| 21:22.04 | RobotGuy | rx3715 is what I mean |
| 21:22.09 | prpplague | yea |
| 21:22.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I wonder if the rx3715 is easily hackable. |
| 21:22.38 | prpplague | g1powermac: got any money left? |
| 21:22.53 | prpplague | RobotGuy: depends on what you call hackable |
| 21:22.54 | g1powermac | what ya got? |
| 21:23.09 | prpplague | g1powermac: i've got a TCT fun pack |
| 21:23.22 | prpplague | g1powermac: a slightly used hammer kit |
| 21:23.48 | g1powermac | hmmm |
| 21:23.48 | prpplague | g1powermac: with lots of extras |
| 21:24.22 | prpplague | g1powermac: hehe $135+shipping |
| 21:24.52 | g1powermac | does it come with a flyswatter? |
| 21:26.10 | prpplague | yea |
| 21:26.24 | g1powermac | hmm, tempting |
| 21:26.27 | prpplague | the carrier board has been soldered too, so its not virgin |
| 21:26.44 | prpplague | and the hammer has been modified to use 3.3v input instead of 5v |
| 21:26.48 | agaffney | virgins are overrated |
| 21:26.52 | g1powermac | plus if you throw it in with the zipit, I won't have to pay shipping. . . |
| 21:26.57 | prpplague | agaffney: i tend to agree |
| 21:26.58 | RobotGuy | prpplague: By hackable, I mean get into it and be able to put standard Linux on it and use all the peripherals. |
| 21:27.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: completely, its been running linux for over 2 years |
| 21:27.33 | g1powermac | prpplague, *sigh* now you made me want to spend more money! ;-) |
| 21:27.36 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I think I want one of those then.. :) |
| 21:27.56 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Go for it! Think about it, you get a Flyswatter and more.. |
| 21:27.56 | prpplague | g1powermac: don't spend it if it is going to get you into a mess/bind |
| 21:28.07 | RobotGuy | For sure! |
| 21:28.18 | g1powermac | is trying to prioritize what to buy |
| 21:28.22 | RobotGuy | My finances are already in a big mess/bind |
| 21:28.28 | g1powermac | I could really use a new soldering iron |
| 21:28.41 | prpplague | RobotGuy: http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/HpIpaqRX3715 |
| 21:28.42 | g1powermac | and I could use a flyswatter |
| 21:28.57 | g1powermac | prpplague, got an old decent iron? :-) |
| 21:29.15 | prpplague | g1powermac: i'll look around |
| 21:29.32 | g1powermac | k, I'm specifically looking for a digitally controlled one |
| 21:30.04 | prpplague | ahh, i won't have anything like that handy |
| 21:30.16 | g1powermac | ahh, ok |
| 21:30.45 | prpplague | cbrake: ping |
| 21:30.58 | cbrake | prpplague: hey |
| 21:31.33 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I've read that. Now to just get money so I can buy one off eBay for half retail. |
| 21:33.19 | g1powermac | hmmm |
| 21:33.27 | g1powermac | parents want to buy that new netflix box |
| 21:33.54 | g1powermac | wonders what is in that thing. . . |
| 21:35.30 | CosmicPenguin | wires and junk |
| 21:35.59 | adyer | lol, unsold webtv hardware :-) |
| 21:36.12 | g1powermac | heh |
| 21:37.04 | ds2 | prpplague: is the abused hammer still available? |
| 21:37.18 | prpplague | ds2: yea |
| 21:37.38 | ds2 | prpplague: is it a paypal invoice or? |
| 21:37.50 | prpplague | ds2: yea paypal invoice |
| 21:37.55 | ds2 | so Cc is okay |
| 21:38.00 | prpplague | ds2: thats what i'd prefer |
| 21:38.11 | prpplague | ds2: as long as paypal takes it |
| 21:38.28 | ds2 | prpplague: can you send me an official list of what it is/description? just so there is no disputes |
| 21:38.51 | ds2 | prpplague: it worked for the zipit thing from t0mw so I assume it will be the same? (he used a paypal invoice) |
| 21:39.14 | prpplague | ds2: ahh ok, yea, i'll have to get all of it together |
| 21:39.19 | prpplague | ds2: lots of misc stuff |
| 21:39.51 | prpplague | ds2: some bluetooth modules, couple of minuature modems, some small character lcds |
| 21:40.04 | prpplague | ds2: hammer module, carrier board, flyswatter |
| 21:40.14 | prpplague | ds2: all have been slightly used |
| 21:40.20 | ds2 | prpplague: can you at least guarantee I can get a shell prompt on the hammer? |
| 21:40.40 | prpplague | ds2: yea the hammer works fine, its just be modified to take 3.3v input rather than 5v |
| 21:40.57 | ds2 | the 3.3v is ideal, IMO... want to do that anyways |
| 21:41.14 | ds2 | and flyswatter is stock? |
| 21:41.40 | prpplague | ds2: had some soldering done to some of the pins and such, but completely functional |
| 21:42.09 | ds2 | as long as the solder isn't bridges between V+ and GND ;) no big deal |
| 21:42.22 | prpplague | hehe, nope |
| 21:42.35 | ds2 | i'll take it... I think paypal collects the shipping address, etc right? |
| 21:42.43 | prpplague | yea |
| 21:42.48 | prpplague | you want the list first? |
| 21:43.01 | ds2 | yes, that's just for records |
| 21:43.24 | prpplague | ds2: you in the US? |
| 21:43.35 | ds2 | in case I receive a claw hammer + embedded bits of lead ;) |
| 21:43.39 | ds2 | prpplague: SJC, CA |
| 21:43.53 | prpplague | ds2: hehe |
| 21:44.00 | ds2 | no export issues/papers/etc |
| 21:47.51 | g1powermac | ds2, meh, I think a sledge hammer would be better ;-) |
| 21:48.52 | ds2 | g1powermac: harder to argue on that with the CC |
| 21:54.59 | RobotGuy | Ooooooooooo, I like the extra stuff. Dang. |
| 21:55.44 | ds2 | just wish the headers were also desoldered too ;) |
| 21:56.34 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Sledge with a 2440A. :) And camera interface exposed. |
| 21:57.37 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: And 128 MB Flash and 128 MB RAM. :D:D |
| 21:57.52 | prpplague | i had one posted |
| 21:57.58 | prpplague | jack hammer |
| 21:58.09 | prpplague | not sure if that got removed when the wiki crashed |
| 21:58.11 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yeah, but not available yet |
| 21:58.23 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I think it didn't make the trip |
| 21:58.31 | prpplague | i have like 10 on my desk, hehe |
| 21:59.02 | MonMotha | heh, sounds like me with one of the boards we have |
| 21:59.09 | RobotGuy | Doesn't seem to be there unless I don't have the link right. |
| 21:59.13 | MonMotha | I think I had like 50% of the existing protos on my desk at one point |
| 21:59.21 | prpplague | MonMotha: hehe |
| 22:00.18 | RobotGuy | Right now, I just want my replacement Hammer. There is so much I want/need to do with it. Probably won't have W.A.L.T.E.R. ready for LPC now. |
| 22:01.54 | prpplague | MonMotha: do i have your email address? |
| 22:02.41 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, hehe |
| 22:03.00 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I think all JackHammer would need to be hobbiest friendly is a .1 space breakout board of some sort. |
| 22:03.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea |
| 22:03.51 | ds2 | 2.5mm spacing }:-) |
| 22:04.15 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Something like Olimex does for their proto and dev boards - that kind of connector. |
| 22:19.41 | prpplague | ds2: you want me to include the list as part of the invoice? |
| 22:19.59 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, http://www.hackaday.com/2008/05/20/modular-reconfigurable-on-the-fly-robot-demo/ |
| 22:20.14 | RobotGuy | reroutes the shipment from prpplague to ds2 to go to himself instead. :) |
| 22:22.13 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 22:22.13 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 22:22.42 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: That is very cool! |
| 22:22.48 | g1powermac | ain't it? |
| 22:24.19 | ds2 | prpplague: that or a email... which ever is easier |
| 22:25.50 | prpplague | ds2: tomorrow morning ok? |
| 22:26.06 | ds2 | prpplague: that's fine |
| 22:26.18 | prpplague | okie dokie then |
| 22:26.22 | prpplague | heads home |
| 22:31.28 | *** join/#edev okalex (n=okalex@CPE001839df38d1-CM00111ae2d600.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 22:37.54 | g1powermac | should just order some goodies from circuit specialists |
| 22:39.50 | RobotGuy | Orderm order, order, order in the circuit. |
| 23:13.49 | *** part/#edev adyer (n=adyer@adsl-69-223-13-78.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 23:31.22 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-245-138-220.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 23:31.25 | prpplague | ho ho ho |
| 23:31.30 | prpplague | merry freakin tuesday |
| 23:33.14 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin hey btw, iirc there are a bunch of animatronics articles on circuit cellar |
| 23:33.26 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin i'll dig thru my archive |
| 23:51.19 | *** join/#edev ico2 (n=ico2@modem-749.chameleon.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 23:52.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy ping ping |
| 23:52.26 | RobotGuy | prpplague: pong pong |
| 23:55.01 | prpplague | RobotGuy http://www.electronics-lab.com/projects/pc/026/index.html |
| 23:56.24 | RobotGuy | Ooooooooooh, could be a new toy for Hammer.. |
| 23:57.23 | prpplague | http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/showdev.php?id=1317 |