| 00:00.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy you could reduce most of the circuit |
| 00:00.29 | prpplague | as the hammer already(and nail) already have the 3.3v and +5v |
| 00:00.37 | prpplague | no need for the two leds |
| 00:00.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I see that possibility. Hmmm, sound module for Hammer-RDP. :) |
| 00:00.55 | ds2 | just write a PWM ALSA driver from Hammer :P |
| 00:01.24 | prpplague | no need |
| 00:01.25 | ds2 | do it at a high enough carrier freq, you don't even need external components beyond maybe a cap |
| 00:01.29 | prpplague | http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/showdev.php?id=1317 |
| 00:01.58 | ds2 | that eats into the precious EP's available |
| 00:02.49 | prpplague | i need to test those limits |
| 00:03.19 | prpplague | ds2 i've looked at the usb host specs and it is very vague as to the number of end points |
| 00:03.42 | ds2 | *nod* there are other devices (can't remember which) that are like that |
| 00:03.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy we already have a pwm audio driver for the hammer |
| 00:04.02 | RobotGuy | prpplague: :D |
| 00:04.15 | prpplague | ds2 the way it reads i almost get the idea that the EP limitation only applies to the usb device port |
| 00:04.19 | ds2 | I'll find out if/when I get around to assembling my portable NAS now that there has been some time since 4/15 |
| 00:04.30 | RobotGuy | I've GOT to learn how to solder QFPs. |
| 00:04.59 | prpplague | easy as pie |
| 00:05.06 | prpplague | gotta have the right tools though |
| 00:05.18 | ds2 | if you got a board... |
| 00:05.31 | ds2 | do it deadbug style for a fun exercise ;) |
| 00:06.06 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I'm getting some of the PCM2707 and PCM2912 |
| 00:06.12 | prpplague | i always try to have beldynsys boards in stock |
| 00:06.24 | prpplague | hehe |
| 00:06.35 | prpplague | don't forget to order the opamps |
| 00:06.42 | ds2 | it is the fine pitch leadless parts that cause headaches |
| 00:06.59 | prpplague | yea qfn drives me nuts |
| 00:07.10 | prpplague | goes to check on his f9 install |
| 00:07.47 | RobotGuy | Dang, can't read the part numbers on the other chips. |
| 00:07.57 | ds2 | RobotGuy: you got optics? |
| 00:08.27 | RobotGuy | ds2: Trying to read the schematic on the screen. |
| 00:08.39 | ds2 | no, I mean optics for soldering |
| 00:08.46 | RobotGuy | ds2: Not yet. |
| 00:08.48 | ds2 | like a microscope, magnifier, visor, etc |
| 00:08.56 | RobotGuy | Nothing yet. |
| 00:09.12 | ds2 | those help a lot and a good pair of tweezers |
| 00:09.12 | prpplague | OPA2353UA |
| 00:11.51 | ds2 | does the hammer do I2S or AC97? |
| 00:12.34 | RobotGuy | I don't remember if the I2S is brought to pins. |
| 00:13.21 | ds2 | I2S, IMO is a easier way to do sound |
| 00:13.44 | RobotGuy | No I2S to Hammer pins, althought I believe the 2410A supports it. |
| 00:13.51 | ds2 | DOH |
| 00:15.12 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Thanks, getting some of the 2353's and the 4353's |
| 00:15.49 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Any other cool TI chips you know of that I might be interested in? |
| 00:16.10 | prpplague | no i2s or ac97 |
| 00:16.18 | prpplague | audio wasn't high on the list for the hammer |
| 00:16.30 | prpplague | which is why i pointed out the pcm2702 |
| 00:16.43 | ds2 | get a beagle ;) |
| 00:17.30 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Found the PCM3794A which has SPI and I2C.. |
| 00:18.17 | RobotGuy | Dang, they are QFN though. |
| 00:18.36 | ds2 | make a board ;) |
| 00:19.20 | RobotGuy | I have to be able to solder them still, if I could make a board. |
| 00:19.24 | prpplague | checks his f9 install |
| 00:19.35 | RobotGuy | I need to reinstall Gentoo. |
| 00:19.40 | ds2 | make a board and use solder paste in a reflow oven |
| 00:19.49 | ds2 | aka used dedicated toaster oven |
| 00:20.08 | RobotGuy | I have three more parts I can get on this order. |
| 00:21.16 | prpplague | tusb2046 |
| 00:21.18 | prpplague | tusb2046b |
| 00:21.20 | prpplague | i mean |
| 00:22.49 | prpplague | am i the only one does give a flying rat's ass about this presidential election? |
| 00:22.55 | prpplague | doesn't |
| 00:23.37 | prpplague | its lose lose or lose |
| 00:23.56 | ds2 | like as if it is - tails you loose, heads I win? :) |
| 00:25.29 | prpplague | they are all losers and none need to hold that office |
| 00:26.49 | RobotGuy | I care |
| 00:28.06 | RobotGuy | One more part I can order. |
| 00:28.51 | RobotGuy | They all say the whatever it takes to get elected and then go do whatever they want to, ingoring what they say on their platform |
| 00:33.55 | prpplague | bbiab |
| 00:36.07 | RobotGuy | OK, got my 8 chips, placing order. |
| 00:52.24 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_PB (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 00:59.09 | g1powermac_PB | laughs at his mom. . . |
| 00:59.47 | g1powermac_PB | she got a ticket for not wearing her seat belt which I've repeatedly told her to wear |
| 01:02.21 | MonMotha | I never understood seat belt laws. If somebody gets in a wreck and the paramedics determine that injury was due to failure to wait proper restraints, just ask "will your insurance cover this?" |
| 01:03.42 | g1powermac_PB | well, the good thing in this state is that its only a $25 fine and they don't report it to your insurance company |
| 01:04.10 | MonMotha | well, that's at least not absurd |
| 01:04.19 | g1powermac_PB | originally they couldn't even pull you over for not wearing a seat belt |
| 01:04.59 | MonMotha | the rationale is that if people don't wear proper restraints or protective gear (such as seat belts and helmets, as required), that others may have to (effectively, even if not explicitly) foot the bill if said individual is injured and cannot pay their medical expenses |
| 01:05.20 | MonMotha | so I say just refuse treatment if somebody fails to wear proper equipment and doesn't have insurance to cover it |
| 01:05.21 | g1powermac_PB | ahh |
| 01:05.24 | MonMotha | but then I'm pretty anti-social |
| 01:05.29 | g1powermac_PB | hehe |
| 01:05.41 | MonMotha | $25 and no report to your insurance as a moving violation is at least not terrible |
| 01:05.55 | ds2 | easier put the charges on them or the estate |
| 01:05.56 | MonMotha | that's at least in the realm of "we do this because you're potentially hurting others, not because we're your nanny" |
| 01:06.09 | ds2 | fairer. be responsible for your actions or in actions. |
| 01:06.12 | MonMotha | punitive fines basically just mean you live in a nanny state |
| 01:06.23 | g1powermac_PB | yea, its not bad |
| 01:06.39 | g1powermac_PB | this state is pretty laxy with certain things |
| 01:06.40 | MonMotha | ds2: the issue is that if they don't have insurance to pay up and are unable to, the medical people cannot refuse to provide treatment, even if they know they won't get paid |
| 01:06.53 | MonMotha | they can sic the collections people on them, but that's no guarantee of payment |
| 01:07.05 | g1powermac_PB | the minimum amount of car insurance is pretty low |
| 01:07.13 | ds2 | MonMotha: and I am saying change it so either they or their estate will have to pay or have to work it off. |
| 01:07.15 | g1powermac_PB | your still required to have insurance though |
| 01:07.17 | MonMotha | minimal car insurance would not cover this |
| 01:07.34 | ds2 | working it off would include slaving away at a threadmill to generate electricity to run the facility |
| 01:07.46 | MonMotha | the rationale behind requiring car insurance is similar. States only require liability so that if you hurt someone else's vehicle or person in an accident, you have the means to cover your fault |
| 01:07.51 | g1powermac_PB | MonMotha: yea, thats true out here, they have to treat you here |
| 01:07.59 | MonMotha | most states also allow you to post a bond in the amount of required liability coverage |
| 01:08.20 | MonMotha | ds2: so basically, you're saying that such medical debts would not be discharged in bankruptcy |
| 01:08.20 | g1powermac_PB | though I ponder about that in NJ |
| 01:08.39 | ds2 | MonMotha: something like that |
| 01:08.51 | MonMotha | and you're proposing increased remedies for those owed such "idiotic person" medical debts |
| 01:08.51 | g1powermac_PB | the few times I was in the hospital in NJ I never seen those signs that they have to treat you even if you don't have insurance |
| 01:09.01 | MonMotha | I guess that would work, too |
| 01:09.16 | ds2 | medical care is not a right |
| 01:09.16 | MonMotha | basically, my idea was to eliminate the social reason for seat belt/helmet laws |
| 01:09.34 | MonMotha | I understand why they exist currently (though I don't understand why the fines are sometimes so punitive) |
| 01:09.53 | g1powermac_PB | the helmet law out here is funny |
| 01:09.58 | MonMotha | they currently exist to solve the social problem that emergency medical care is treated as a right, even if you have no way to pay for the expenses |
| 01:10.13 | g1powermac_PB | I think its basically after riding a motorcycle for a year, you don't need to wear a helmet |
| 01:10.28 | MonMotha | so the idea is to lower the risk of an individual requiring medical care |
| 01:10.53 | MonMotha | I guess one option would be to exempt those who carry suitable medical insurance from seat belt and helmet laws, but that's a nightmare to enforce |
| 01:11.08 | MonMotha | and note that insurance companies heavily lobby for seat belt and helmet laws |
| 01:11.19 | g1powermac_PB | well, its just as bad as enforcing car insurance |
| 01:11.50 | MonMotha | then again, your insurance company could deny your claim if you are found to not be wearing a seat belt/helmet, and then if your policy is like that, you are not considered to carry suitable insurance to be exempt. Again, an enforcement nightmare |
| 01:12.18 | g1powermac_PB | true, but the state could make that clause illegal |
| 01:12.29 | MonMotha | why would they want to? |
| 01:12.37 | g1powermac_PB | simplify things |
| 01:12.56 | MonMotha | the only thing the state should, in theory, care about is that those who are not wearing protective equipment have suitable insurance to cover any medical expenses they are putting themselves at greater risk for |
| 01:13.14 | MonMotha | but if you do that, my health insurance rates go up since the insurer has to assume I'm an idiot who won't wear my seat belt |
| 01:13.30 | MonMotha | and for the record, I always do, even if I'm just in a parking lot! |
| 01:13.44 | MonMotha | hell, I'll put on my seat belt to pull my car down the driveway |
| 01:14.16 | g1powermac_PB | hah, me too |
| 01:14.23 | g1powermac_PB | its ingrained into me |
| 01:16.42 | *** join/#edev GPSFan (n=kenm@12.10.255.246) |
| 01:16.42 | *** mode/#edev [+o GPSFan] by ChanServ |
| 01:45.29 | RobotGuy | Durn, no Hammer replacement today. :( |
| 01:45.36 | RobotGuy | sighs |
| 03:44.09 | *** join/#edev mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 04:02.48 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (i=robotguy@dsl093-038-119.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 04:15.06 | *** join/#edev DrZimmerman (n=theo@tbaumgartner.broker.freenet6.net) |
| 05:07.36 | *** join/#edev agaffney_ (n=agaffney@gentoo/developer/pdpc.active.agaffney) |
| 05:46.14 | *** join/#edev magnetron (n=magnetro@unaffiliated/magnetron) |
| 06:03.02 | *** join/#edev linac (n=lin@222.76.81.218) |
| 06:12.04 | *** join/#edev KazaLite (n=kazaLite@203.215.180.205) |
| 06:14.02 | *** join/#edev drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07E996.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:22.44 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_PB (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 06:24.00 | *** join/#edev hw_ (n=hw@p578b3905.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:36.26 | *** join/#edev chouimat|away (n=dieu@r2351064.cidc.net) |
| 06:44.51 | *** join/#edev howtoo (n=howtoo@195.159.62.66) |
| 07:26.18 | *** join/#edev magnetron (n=magnetro@unaffiliated/magnetron) |
| 07:27.22 | *** join/#edev [AD]Turbo (n=turbo@host24-241-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 07:30.39 | [AD]Turbo | hi all |
| 08:13.47 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@p57BD2373.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:50.59 | *** join/#edev linac (n=lin@222.76.81.218) |
| 09:09.30 | *** join/#edev chouimat|away (n=dieu@kde/developer/chouinard) |
| 09:42.56 | *** join/#edev magnetron (n=magnetro@unaffiliated/magnetron) |
| 09:54.48 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_PB (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 11:40.11 | *** join/#edev flameman (n=root@host89-160-dynamic.50-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 12:32.31 | *** join/#edev GPSFan (n=kenm@12.10.255.246) |
| 12:32.31 | *** mode/#edev [+o GPSFan] by ChanServ |
| 12:41.06 | *** join/#edev chouimat|work (n=dieu@209.217.106.98) |
| 13:14.22 | *** part/#edev flameman (n=root@host89-160-dynamic.50-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 13:20.02 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 13:20.30 | g1powermac_PB | mornin prpplague |
| 13:20.38 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: greetings |
| 13:21.07 | *** join/#edev sjhill (n=sjhill@real.realitydiluted.com) |
| 13:21.07 | *** mode/#edev [+o sjhill] by ChanServ |
| 13:21.54 | chouimat|work | morning |
| 13:26.00 | prpplague | greetings |
| 13:33.22 | *** join/#edev flameman (n=root@host89-160-dynamic.50-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 13:38.55 | *** join/#edev okalex (n=okalex@CPE001839df38d1-CM00111ae2d600.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 13:39.25 | prpplague | ds2: ping |
| 13:40.12 | *** join/#edev magnetron (n=magnetro@unaffiliated/magnetron) |
| 13:41.45 | *** join/#edev linac (n=lin@121.41.39.129) |
| 13:43.38 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 13:46.26 | prpplague | ds2: invoice sent |
| 13:51.09 | *** join/#edev [AD]Turbo (n=turbo@host24-241-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 13:53.24 | *** join/#edev ce_geek (n=ce_geek@roger-blanchette-4.umelst.maine.edu) |
| 14:06.45 | prpplague | ce_geek: greetings |
| 14:08.55 | ce_geek | prpplague: Mornin' |
| 14:09.43 | ce_geek | prpplague: How're things in the south? |
| 14:09.53 | prpplague | ssdd |
| 14:14.18 | SpeedEvil | uunn |
| 14:16.24 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: uunn? |
| 14:16.41 | SpeedEvil | played to much MUD back in the day. |
| 14:17.06 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: anything new on the zipit front? |
| 14:17.17 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: no been too busy, sorry |
| 14:17.21 | g1powermac_PB | k |
| 14:17.25 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: i'll try to get it shipped to you soon |
| 14:17.49 | g1powermac_PB | alrighty, no rush, just wondering what else you're planning on doing |
| 14:18.02 | g1powermac_PB | has a house to move this coming week, what fun. . . |
| 14:28.50 | *** join/#edev mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 14:28.53 | SpeedEvil | passes g1powermac_PB a really large jack. |
| 14:29.06 | g1powermac_PB | heheh |
| 14:29.23 | g1powermac_PB | need a flat bed truck too then :-) |
| 14:32.24 | SpeedEvil | Or a cargo airship |
| 14:40.19 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: i had planned on tinkering with apex on the zipit |
| 14:40.30 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: not sure if i will have time in the next week or so |
| 14:41.35 | sjhill | wonders if a package is on its way |
| 14:52.12 | prpplague | sjhill: yea, should get it by friday |
| 14:52.46 | sjhill | fricking awesome! |
| 14:53.00 | prpplague | ds2: you alive yet? |
| 14:53.26 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 14:53.26 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 14:53.27 | prpplague | ~seen landley |
| 14:53.31 | purl | landley <n=landley@216-188-225-16.dyn.grandenetworks.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #edev, 3d 19h 40m 42s ago, saying: 'Coffee shop.'. |
| 14:53.43 | sjhill | wow, that's a lot of coffee |
| 14:53.47 | sjhill | he must be bouncing off the walls |
| 14:56.34 | CosmicPenguin | sjhill: what, any more then he usually is? |
| 14:58.15 | prpplague | hehe |
| 15:22.27 | *** join/#edev bbradley (n=bbradley@92-235-133-146.cable.ubr17.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 15:38.00 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.115.218.135.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 15:39.47 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you ever have to write techincal reference specifications? |
| 15:40.01 | CosmicPenguin | not if we ever inteded anybody to read them |
| 15:40.08 | prpplague | hmm |
| 15:40.23 | prpplague | wonders where he can find docs on writing docs |
| 15:42.29 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I think you can find a book about this subject :) |
| 15:47.30 | T0mW | "In the beginning, there was a connector...." |
| 15:48.52 | chouimat|work | T0mW: hehe |
| 15:50.00 | T0mW | "... but the connector was lonely, so it created the Integrated Circuit ..." :) |
| 15:52.39 | T0mW | prpplague: define your audience, preamble to do an overall of the design (system) and technolgies, then work up a table of general sections, fill in the sections. ? |
| 15:53.18 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, well i've handed this thing in 4 times, and each time the boss says , "it's not what we are looking for" |
| 15:53.32 | T0mW | prpplague: ask him for an example |
| 15:53.52 | prpplague | T0mW: that's just it, he doesn't know what he wants |
| 15:53.56 | T0mW | LOL |
| 15:54.02 | SpeedEvil | Who's it aimed at. Can they speak english, or should it be mostly pictorial. |
| 15:54.18 | prpplague | T0mW: this is suppose to be for getting quotes on doing a windows ce port to our new pda |
| 15:54.27 | SpeedEvil | IMO, you first need a doc on what's needed, who it should be aimed at and stuff. |
| 15:54.31 | T0mW | SpeedEvil: if it is for management types, definately the pictures + arrows |
| 15:54.32 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: from india so english is second language |
| 15:56.50 | chouimat|work | wow 132USD for oil now :( |
| 15:57.14 | T0mW | is glad he soldout his stocks on Monday |
| 16:02.31 | *** join/#edev magnetron (n=magnetro@unaffiliated/magnetron) |
| 16:27.42 | prpplague | hmm, when adding people to linkedin, if you've worked with them doing opensource dev, do you choose colleague, friend, or business partner? |
| 16:30.34 | CosmicPenguin | colleague |
| 16:31.39 | prpplague | didn't realize so many of the folks i know doing OSS dev are on linkedin |
| 16:31.56 | *** join/#edev kaza_lite (n=danishJa@116.71.153.224) |
| 16:40.21 | prpplague | MonMotha: ping |
| 16:44.54 | prpplague | wow really didn't realize how popular linkedin is |
| 17:14.49 | *** join/#edev likewise (n=likewise@82-171-51-231.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 17:34.28 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8091010559.html |
| 17:39.52 | CosmicPenguin | cute |
| 17:40.46 | prpplague | pokes CosmicPenguin to check his linkedin account |
| 17:41.55 | CosmicPenguin | I'll do it this evening |
| 17:42.22 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe just teasing you |
| 17:42.26 | chouimat|work | linkedin? |
| 17:42.32 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i know you got work to do |
| 17:42.43 | CosmicPenguin | I normally do my linked in stuff from home |
| 17:42.43 | prpplague | chouimat|work: basically facebook for professionals |
| 17:42.47 | chouimat|work | nice |
| 17:46.57 | *** join/#edev Crofton (n=balister@66-207-66-26.black.dmt.ntelos.net) |
| 17:46.57 | chouimat|work | prpplague: now you can try to find me ;) |
| 17:47.11 | prpplague | ce_geek: i guess you guys are way too hard on your students - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,356889,00.html |
| 17:47.47 | prpplague | chouimat|work: no listing for "freaky french canadian chouimat" |
| 17:47.56 | chouimat|work | hehe |
| 17:50.29 | prpplague | must be another chouinard listing |
| 17:59.05 | prpplague | anyone remeber the url for that keyboard matrix decoding and "ghost" keys? |
| 18:06.20 | ce_geek | prpplague: Holy crap |
| 18:13.18 | prpplague | ce_geek: tell rick to stop driving the students crazy, hehe |
| 18:13.27 | ce_geek | Haha |
| 18:13.34 | ce_geek | goes off to do stupid paperwork |
| 18:22.24 | *** join/#edev kaza_lite (n=danishJa@116.71.164.3) |
| 18:27.43 | ds2 | prpplague: I see the invoice... it doesn't show me a description, is that available only to registered users? |
| 18:28.20 | prpplague | hmm it should, i added to the bottom of the notes |
| 18:28.30 | prpplague | i'll email you the list |
| 18:28.56 | ds2 | it doesn't give me the notes... must be a registered user thing |
| 18:29.01 | prpplague | ahh |
| 18:29.03 | prpplague | one sec |
| 18:29.35 | ds2 | barring any surprises in the description, feed in the info tonight from home |
| 18:30.45 | prpplague | ds2: that mean you will pay the invoice this evening? |
| 18:31.20 | ds2 | prpplague: yeah |
| 18:31.30 | ds2 | trying to limit entering CC info from work :) |
| 18:31.32 | prpplague | ds2: ahh ok, just making sure i understoof |
| 18:32.00 | SpeedEvil | Interesting thing I came across - one-time credit card numbers. |
| 18:33.52 | ds2 | SpeedEvil: been doing that for almost 8 years now |
| 18:34.28 | SpeedEvil | ah :) |
| 18:34.48 | ds2 | not all CC companies offer it and they all insist you have flash installed to use it |
| 18:57.33 | prpplague | hehe you know, google must have some piece of software that scans images for road paths |
| 18:57.48 | prpplague | because if there is a cloud in the satelite image, the road isn't shown |
| 19:07.08 | SpeedEvil | Or their upstream data provider that shares the same ariel imagery. |
| 19:25.19 | *** join/#edev cajaka (n=none@cpe-74-67-237-9.twcny.res.rr.com) |
| 19:29.03 | *** join/#edev sjhill (n=sjhill@real.realitydiluted.com) |
| 19:29.03 | *** mode/#edev [+o sjhill] by ChanServ |
| 19:40.57 | *** join/#edev landley (n=landley@rrcs-71-42-139-208.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 19:40.57 | *** mode/#edev [+o landley] by ChanServ |
| 19:41.48 | landley | My day job is insane. The entire company. Insane. |
| 19:41.59 | landley | Endless design meetings about internal interfaces. They want to add a trailer when passing data from one thread to another, to make sure it didn't get corrupted. |
| 19:42.15 | landley | They have a build system. Today I was warned that there were big changes being made to the build system (again). But they have NOTHING TO BUILD YET. |
| 19:42.21 | landley | Zero functional modules actually checked into the thing. |
| 19:42.31 | SpeedEvil | ... |
| 19:42.32 | landley | Piling up infrastructure, in search of a purpose. |
| 19:42.37 | landley | THE MIND BOGGLES. |
| 19:42.54 | landley | They have nothing, and they broke it. I'm impressed. |
| 19:43.35 | SpeedEvil | The Boggles - They do nuffink! |
| 19:43.35 | landley | is trying to drop down to half time at that job. |
| 19:44.02 | landley | I don't want to just leave before the project <strike>collapses</strike> ends, but I can only take so much... |
| 19:45.09 | Crofton | sounds like my old research group |
| 19:46.17 | chouimat|work | sound like a company I worked for and most of the projects from the fruitcake |
| 20:00.29 | chouimat|work | you know there is something wrong when you listen to your music really loud and you still hear one of your coworker singing brittey spears |
| 20:00.31 | chouimat|work | :( |
| 20:02.08 | landley | Oh I have my own office. There's a nameplate next to the door and everything. |
| 20:02.12 | landley | Free soda, in many ways it's quite nice. |
| 20:02.28 | landley | They just have no _clue_ how to deal with software. (And readily admit it: they're a hardware company.) |
| 20:05.10 | *** join/#edev magnetron (n=magnetro@unaffiliated/magnetron) |
| 20:09.40 | landley | prpplague: how goes the nail board? |
| 20:09.49 | landley | I'm catching up on my documentation work, finally. |
| 20:10.39 | landley | http://landley.net/qemu has its third week finished (woot!) and I'll dig out the nail board (which is still caseless, which is why I haven't been carrying it around with me) and finish those docs to send to Andrew Morton this weekend. |
| 20:19.51 | prpplague | landley: we've had a few delays getting the production run going properly |
| 20:19.57 | prpplague | landley: thats all sorted out now |
| 20:20.13 | prpplague | landley: doing testing now on the first batch of 10 to make sure everything is good |
| 20:20.55 | prpplague | landley: should be ready to ship on the 27th |
| 20:21.13 | prpplague | landley: we've started the initial design phase for a webserver board based on the hammer |
| 20:21.40 | prpplague | landley: yea i just cut your case this morning |
| 20:21.49 | landley | Cool. |
| 20:21.52 | prpplague | landley: ship it today or tomorrow |
| 20:22.03 | landley | has been off in corporate america, trying to hide from the pointy hair. |
| 20:22.05 | prpplague | landley: just been totally swampped with this product release |
| 20:22.10 | landley | Join the club. |
| 20:22.14 | prpplague | landley: hehe yea, i've been reading your blog |
| 20:22.33 | prpplague | landley: http://imagebin.ca/view/tH3RGx.html |
| 20:23.23 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (i=robotguy@dsl093-038-119.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:23.55 | landley | prpplague: I'd say "cool" except that thscreen shot is showing a windows logo, so it's mathematically eliminated. |
| 20:24.53 | RobotGuy | prpplague, landley, g1powermac_PB. MonMotha, GPSFan: greetings |
| 20:25.01 | landley | Hiya. |
| 20:26.26 | prpplague | landley: hehe, actually, the ME only has solid works screen shots for windows |
| 20:26.40 | prpplague | landley: so when he did the rendering thats what he used |
| 20:26.54 | prpplague | landley: i've been meaning to give him something like a GPE screen shot |
| 20:27.23 | landley | If the toy can run Linux, that's much more interesting. |
| 20:27.34 | RobotGuy | Linux Toy?? |
| 20:27.45 | landley | Still no useful keyboard, though. |
| 20:27.47 | prpplague | landley: hehe, finishing up the linux support now |
| 20:27.57 | landley | RobotGuy: http://imagebin.ca/view/tH3RGx.html |
| 20:27.59 | prpplague | landley: yea its not a full qwerty keyboard |
| 20:28.13 | prpplague | landley: its more like a cell phone |
| 20:28.16 | landley | What's the screen resolution? |
| 20:28.21 | prpplague | 320x240 |
| 20:28.30 | landley | I've used worse, although it's been a while... |
| 20:28.38 | RobotGuy | Ooooh, shiny. |
| 20:28.42 | landley | That's... mcga resolution, isn't it? |
| 20:28.50 | landley | No, that would be 320x200. |
| 20:29.03 | landley | did much with mcga, long ago... |
| 20:29.07 | RobotGuy | http://openpandora.org/ |
| 20:29.18 | RobotGuy | I really want one of these. |
| 20:30.13 | prpplague | landley: what you'll like is the fact that it ships with a 5200mAh battery with a 7800mAh optional |
| 20:31.03 | prpplague | landley: which, so far with the 7800 , you run almost continuously with wifi for 20 hours |
| 20:31.26 | markus | There is an empty buildroot project on launchpad, why is it even there? |
| 20:31.32 | markus | it's totally empty. |
| 20:31.34 | landley | Ok, that's pretty deeply cool. :) |
| 20:31.44 | markus | no, just a description and a link |
| 20:31.59 | landley | markus: I was talking to prpplague. :) |
| 20:32.11 | RobotGuy | markus: Which version of buildroot are you using? |
| 20:32.37 | markus | RobotGuy: i downloaded the snapshort some days ago |
| 20:32.54 | RobotGuy | markus: From the Hammer Wiki? |
| 20:33.31 | prpplague | markus: i think he's doing general buildroot |
| 20:34.01 | RobotGuy | markus: Where did you get your buildroot from? |
| 20:34.17 | prpplague | landley: hehe, what you won't like is the price, hehe |
| 20:34.20 | markus | w8.. from here: http://buildroot.uclibc.org/downloads/snapshots/ |
| 20:34.55 | markus | i have not heard of hammer wiki, maybe i should have. |
| 20:35.01 | RobotGuy | markus: What platform are you developing for? |
| 20:35.11 | markus | MIPS, osk5912 |
| 20:35.16 | markus | sorry, ARM |
| 20:35.28 | prpplague | ds2: what the heck is a PMB ? |
| 20:36.24 | RobotGuy | markus: I only know about buildroot for Hammer (ARM9, Samsung S3C2410A). |
| 20:36.51 | markus | osk5912 omap, arm arm |
| 20:36.54 | markus | landley: haha, i wasn't talking to you and you werent talking to me? |
| 20:37.08 | markus | i only know about buildroot from http://buildroot.uclibc.org |
| 20:37.12 | prpplague | RobotGuy: buildroot is buildroto |
| 20:37.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: normally its from buildroot.busybox.net |
| 20:37.33 | prpplague | looks at the url |
| 20:37.36 | landley | prpplague: uclibc.org and busybox.net resolve to the same server. |
| 20:37.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: No, not really. The SVN buildroot doesn't always work for everything. |
| 20:37.48 | landley | (It's called "morris", and I still have root access to it, for no readily apparent reason.) |
| 20:38.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, but the guts are basically identical |
| 20:38.22 | markus | Are there better buildroots that i should use instead of the one from buildroot.busybox.net? |
| 20:38.37 | landley | markus: that's the upstream project for "buildroot". |
| 20:38.49 | landley | There are plenty of other projects that do approximately the same thing, they're just not called "buildroot". |
| 20:39.08 | markus | they are called soemthing else and are special versions of buildroot? |
| 20:39.11 | landley | I have mine (http://landley.net/code/firmware). The openmoko guys have one. Cross Linux From Scratch shows you how to do it by hand.... |
| 20:39.15 | markus | customized |
| 20:39.20 | prpplague | markus: doesn't the osk ship with a buildroot ? |
| 20:39.22 | landley | No, they have nothing to do with buildroot. |
| 20:39.39 | RobotGuy | What is osk? |
| 20:39.43 | prpplague | ~osk |
| 20:39.44 | purl | hmm... osk is the OMAP5912 Starter Kit, a $295 development board with 32/32, serial, ethernet, usb host/client, CF, jtag, and expansion connectors available from http://www.spectrumdigital.com/cgi/catalog.cgi?show_product=701875 or http://tree.celinuxforum.org/pubwiki/moin.cgi/OSK, or http://www.ti.com/omap5912osk |
| 20:39.47 | landley | It's like saying "Firefox: what version of explorer did that fork off of?" |
| 20:39.56 | markus | prpplague: i don't know. i did not unbox it myself. i ships with a montavista linux cd |
| 20:39.58 | landley | Safari, Konqueror, Opera... Different implementations of the same general set of functionality. |
| 20:40.04 | prpplague | markus: ahh |
| 20:40.25 | Crofton | someone has an osk? |
| 20:40.28 | landley | If you're using "buildroot", the upstream version is buildroot.uclibc.org. |
| 20:41.13 | markus | but if there is a osk5912 version of buildroot that would be easier maybe... i haven't done that much research |
| 20:41.44 | landley | There are a half dozen steps: |
| 20:41.57 | landley | 1) You need a cross compiler that targets the right system. |
| 20:42.07 | landley | 2) You need a kernel patched and configured to boot on your board. |
| 20:42.23 | landley | 3) You need something to build a root filesystem containing basic infrastructure interesting packages. |
| 20:42.35 | markus | 1) check 2) check 3) hmmm... |
| 20:42.35 | landley | 4) You need a bootloader for your hardware. |
| 20:42.37 | prpplague | markus: i do recall having seen an osk buildroot |
| 20:42.46 | markus | 4) check |
| 20:42.48 | landley | 5) You need to figure out how to install all of the above on the actual hardware. (May involve a jtag.) |
| 20:42.50 | markus | i'll google |
| 20:43.09 | landley | If you have everything but 3, build a basic busybox defconfig and use that as your root filesystem just as a smoke test. |
| 20:43.15 | markus | i have tried to mount the fs over nfs using u-boot bootargs |
| 20:43.48 | landley | That's a fairly popular approach too. |
| 20:44.10 | landley | It involves getting the network working before you get a command prompt, which is one of those chicken and egg things that gives people headaches if it doesn't work right the first time... |
| 20:44.32 | landley | But it does avoid having to flash the darn thing to test stuff. |
| 20:44.54 | RobotGuy | markus: http://elinux.org/OSK |
| 20:45.13 | landley | Integrated systems like buildroot build their own cross compiler from source, then use it to build a kernel and a root filesystem. |
| 20:45.33 | markus | well, it mounts from nfs well, and i have some problems with setting up /dev... but the the things i am having troubles with right now is using buildroot |
| 20:45.44 | landley | If you've already _got_ a cross compiler you want to use, substituting it for the one it tries to build can get a little tricky. |
| 20:45.47 | ds2 | IIRC, the OSK come with uboot |
| 20:45.56 | markus | getting no complaints when trying to compile, change the config, recompile, builing jffs2-filesystem |
| 20:46.10 | markus | i have really no question right now, but you have been helpful thanks :) |
| 20:46.12 | landley | How is that not "using buildroot"? |
| 20:46.28 | landley | My main gripe with buildroot is it's over-automated. |
| 20:46.50 | landley | If what you want to get it to do isn't one of the buttons it presents on the front, you need a screwdriver and a wiring diagram to make changes. |
| 20:46.50 | markus | i am using buildroot, but... it doesn't do the things i expect or i don't know exactly how to use it |
| 20:46.58 | markus | i get some errors and so on |
| 20:47.22 | landley | I can think of three people who know exactly how to use it, and they're buildroot developers. |
| 20:47.23 | markus | RobotGuy: thansk |
| 20:47.31 | landley | Everybody else just waves it at stuff and hopes it works, as far as I can tell. |
| 20:47.37 | markus | not more than three? :D |
| 20:48.01 | RobotGuy | landley: I can do a bit more than wave it at stuff now. :) |
| 20:48.02 | landley | Eh, prpplague might count. |
| 20:48.30 | landley | RobotGuy: and it took you how many months of pain to get to that point? |
| 20:48.30 | ds2 | it is, IMO, so much easier to do the entire process by hand |
| 20:48.42 | landley | ds2: I scripted the "doing it by hand" approach. |
| 20:48.49 | landley | Bash scripts. Linear. Easy to read. Easy to edit. |
| 20:48.58 | landley | Nested makefiles: spawn of cthulu. |
| 20:49.04 | RobotGuy | landley: Well, I can't blame all of that on buildroot though. I have been working with it since Han. |
| 20:49.06 | prpplague | markus: there are alot of businesses that use buildroot, just not a whole lot of online support |
| 20:49.06 | markus | ds2: how about letting buildroot build a toolchain and start from there? |
| 20:49.07 | landley | And not the cute plushy kind, either. |
| 20:49.13 | RobotGuy | Jan of this year |
| 20:49.33 | prpplague | markus: buildroot is more of a development tool rather than a robust build environment such as OE |
| 20:49.57 | ds2 | markus: that's what I wind up doing on the gumstix... but my preference is to have a tool chain installed in a known location, i.e. /opt/linux-armv5/{bin, lib,.....} |
| 20:50.03 | landley | I'm only a week or so away from putting out the next FWL version, which will support the distcc trick out of the box. |
| 20:50.06 | ds2 | and select it by doing set path=($....) |
| 20:50.18 | prpplague | landley: oh nice |
| 20:50.21 | landley | (I'd have had it done weeks ago if not for day jobness...) |
| 20:50.26 | landley | Ok, that and World of Warcraft. |
| 20:50.44 | RobotGuy | I still don't like the fact buildroot has hard coded paths. |
| 20:51.06 | RobotGuy | landley: I haven't played WoW for a few months. |
| 20:51.18 | prpplague | RobotGuy: all cross compiliers have hard coded paths |
| 20:51.26 | landley | prpplague: mine doesn't. :) |
| 20:51.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy: iirc only the very very very recent gcc tools don;t |
| 20:51.44 | landley | I ripped the hard coded paths out with a shotgun, duct tape, and pliers. |
| 20:51.52 | prpplague | landley: hehe |
| 20:52.18 | landley | Grab a tarball from http://landley.net/code/firmware/downloads/cross-compiler |
| 20:52.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ok, lets put it this way, landley's toolchain is the first i've every seen that didn't have hardcoded paths |
| 20:52.22 | landley | Extract it in any directory you like. |
| 20:52.29 | landley | Add its "bin" to the path, and use it. |
| 20:52.36 | RobotGuy | prpplague: There are others. |
| 20:52.46 | prpplague | RobotGuy: name one |
| 20:53.01 | RobotGuy | prpplague: CodeSorcery's free toolchain |
| 20:53.05 | landley | prpplague: the CodeWarrior guys had a heavily patched nonstandard toolchain with no hardwired paths. |
| 20:53.22 | landley | Last I checked, it hasd about as much in common with mainline gcc as your DNA does with a flatworm's. |
| 20:53.34 | markus | is this channel related to any website or anything? |
| 20:53.45 | landley | (I.E. still about 80%, but not something that would merge cleanly.) |
| 20:53.54 | prpplague | landley: i don't know, CosmicPenguin has alot in common with a flatworm |
| 20:54.05 | roxfan | i don't think CodeWarrior is related to codesourery o.o |
| 20:54.06 | landley | Well, there's that wiki thing everybody keeps linking to. |
| 20:54.09 | landley | Run by tim riker. |
| 20:54.18 | landley | You're right, code sourcery. |
| 20:54.19 | landley | My bad. |
| 20:54.24 | landley | I'm always confusing those two... |
| 20:54.31 | landley | The one Paul Brook works for. |
| 20:59.57 | prpplague | markus: www.elinux.org |
| 21:00.05 | prpplague | markus: sponsored by CELF |
| 21:04.47 | RobotGuy | I apparently really messed Gentoo up. Going to have to reinstall. |
| 21:06.01 | RobotGuy | sighs |
| 21:06.48 | RobotGuy | I downloaded a Gentoo LiveDVD, booted it, and it doesn't seem to recognize my keyboard or trackball. |
| 21:08.41 | ds2 | Hmmm Pandora or Beagle |
| 21:09.02 | markus | ok i added a bookmark to that wiki on this computer too |
| 21:13.01 | RobotGuy | I really want one of those Pandoras. |
| 21:13.39 | RobotGuy | markus: You get lots of links to really cool stuff hanging out here. |
| 21:14.10 | prpplague | ds2: i understand your dilema |
| 21:14.31 | ds2 | problem is they are both slated to arrive around the same time |
| 21:14.50 | RobotGuy | I think Pandora could be just what I have been looking for. |
| 21:15.00 | prpplague | ds2: yea |
| 21:15.19 | ds2 | Pandora looks more like a finished product but is 2x of the beagle.. OTH, Pandora supports the video outs that i wanted |
| 21:15.21 | Crofton | so many machines, so little time |
| 21:15.38 | ds2 | what I really need is a cheap microscopic x86 machine |
| 21:15.51 | prpplague | why x86? |
| 21:15.54 | ds2 | something to work as a hardware emulator for those legacy apps |
| 21:16.09 | ds2 | headless, keyboard less - RDP/VNC into it from a regular ARM machine |
| 21:16.35 | prpplague | ARM to x86 rather than the other way? |
| 21:16.47 | ds2 | the ARM would have the screen and keyboard |
| 21:17.01 | prpplague | ds2: ahh as in the pandora |
| 21:17.01 | ds2 | the x86 is a basic processor+memory; no KB or screen |
| 21:17.13 | ds2 | yep. or the N810 or the 2349840923490184901238409238409 other devices available |
| 21:17.21 | prpplague | ds2: ahh gotcha now |
| 21:17.35 | prpplague | ds2: you could gut a libretto |
| 21:17.39 | ds2 | x86 side is just a power hungry slave device... qemu-i386 or bochs just don't cut it |
| 21:17.53 | ds2 | prpplague: they are going for more then a Pentium class machine should :( |
| 21:18.01 | prpplague | hehe |
| 21:18.11 | prpplague | ds2: hmm |
| 21:18.27 | ds2 | maybe a USB port on the x86 side for USB net as ethernet is too power hungry |
| 21:18.39 | *** join/#edev magnetron_ (n=magnetro@unaffiliated/magnetron) |
| 21:19.10 | ds2 | unfortunately, x86 engineering is just too expensive to do :( |
| 21:19.21 | prpplague | doh i missed the TIDC this year |
| 21:19.34 | ds2 | that was early this year, IIRC |
| 21:20.16 | prpplague | nice solid works rendering - http://openpandora.org/bigone.jpg |
| 21:20.18 | prpplague | ds2: yea |
| 21:21.22 | ds2 | hmm I would give up one of the SD slots for a CF |
| 21:21.57 | RobotGuy | Pandora has some serious processing power. :D:D |
| 21:23.11 | ds2 | or for that matter, make one of those slots a microSD... as it stands, donno how useful is 2 full size SD slots |
| 21:25.57 | RobotGuy | ds2: Pandora is OPEN. Change it to what you want. :) |
| 21:26.29 | ds2 | when someone offers free BGA assembly, then say that again |
| 21:26.42 | ds2 | and SD sockets are a pain to rework |
| 21:27.06 | ds2 | still trying to find a way to mount the SD socket I got from SFE w/o using a reflow oven |
| 21:28.12 | RobotGuy | I wonder how new companies gets started these days, with all the expensive manufacturing, high cost of volume buying, etc. |
| 21:28.48 | ds2 | for startups it isn't as bad... there are hungry CM's out there willing to work with startups at cut rates in return for paid mfg when they go production |
| 21:29.27 | MonMotha | RobotGuy: solution: handle everything you can yourself |
| 21:29.45 | MonMotha | just don't underestimate how hard it can be to procure! |
| 21:40.08 | prpplague | ds2: sd sockets are easy to solder |
| 21:40.14 | prpplague | ds2: you got it from SFE? |
| 21:40.16 | prpplague | looks |
| 21:40.34 | ds2 | yep... the pads are underneath the socket |
| 21:40.49 | g1powermac_PB | *sigh* that was a hard days worth of work |
| 21:40.52 | prpplague | ds2: oh thats bad |
| 21:40.54 | ds2 | there are windows on top but that seems tricky to get to without melting the mechanism |
| 21:41.08 | ds2 | yep. so either reflow or deadbug |
| 21:41.10 | g1powermac_PB | woot, got my TI samples today |
| 21:41.19 | prpplague | ds2: thats sd or microsd? |
| 21:41.43 | ds2 | forgot, it been sitting on the corner of my desk... thinking SD |
| 21:41.59 | prpplague | the sd socket has external solder pads |
| 21:42.08 | prpplague | its the microsd that is a beoych |
| 21:42.30 | ds2 | might have been the SD... I got it cuz it looked small and about right for gobs of flash storage |
| 21:42.52 | prpplague | yea |
| 21:42.58 | prpplague | microsd is a pain |
| 21:43.30 | prpplague | funny SFE is still selling those bogus SD cards |
| 21:46.00 | ds2 | just need to accumulate enough projects and boards so I can use up an entire tube of solder paste in on shot...that should solve the mounting issues |
| 21:46.24 | prpplague | makes a bad joke |
| 21:46.35 | prpplague | ds2: i say the same about hookers and ky |
| 21:47.49 | prpplague | anyone done flex circuit design? |
| 21:47.56 | ds2 | <G> |
| 21:49.02 | solar | RobotGuy: around? |
| 21:49.13 | RobotGuy | solar: Yes, I am here. |
| 21:49.21 | prpplague | solar: greetings |
| 21:49.52 | solar | RobotGuy: hey just wondering how your expirencing is going with e-gentoo. Stuck anywhere? Need help with anything? |
| 21:49.58 | solar | prpplague: hi |
| 21:50.24 | solar | finding all the software you need? |
| 21:50.26 | RobotGuy | solar: I have had difficulties with Gentoo. Haven't gotten to E-Gentoo yet. |
| 21:50.27 | prpplague | solar: i think he is waiting a replacement hammer board, he smoked his |
| 21:50.46 | solar | oh. Yeah I a problem somewhat like that |
| 21:50.53 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That too. Although I never saw any smoke. |
| 21:51.11 | solar | impressive however. what fun thing were you building when that happened? |
| 21:51.16 | g1powermac_PB | hey RobotGuy |
| 21:51.21 | RobotGuy | I did something to mess my Gentoo setup up, but don't know what I did. |
| 21:51.37 | solar | gentoo killed the hammer? ;/ |
| 21:51.43 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: Greets! I have the arm almost fully assembled now! I just need one more bracket. |
| 21:51.44 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: got my TI samples in today :-) |
| 21:51.48 | solar | actually. :) |
| 21:51.52 | RobotGuy | solar: No, I killed Hammer and Gentoo both. |
| 21:51.54 | solar | prpplague: more QA ! |
| 21:51.55 | solar | oh |
| 21:52.10 | prpplague | solar: yea we just ran a batch of 10 |
| 21:52.19 | prpplague | solar: looking really good |
| 21:52.33 | prpplague | solar: we are cutting the tubes and end caps for the cases |
| 21:52.38 | prpplague | solar: getting all ready |
| 21:52.56 | prpplague | solar: we've started the design phase for a webserver board based on the hammer |
| 21:53.00 | RobotGuy | solar: The Hammer was entirely my fault, or at least I think it was. I'm not 100% sure though until I get this one back to prpplague for testing. |
| 21:53.15 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: heh, these suckers are going to be fun to solder :-) |
| 21:53.17 | prpplague | solar: so if you have any ideas on what kind of hardware you might want on it, give me a shout |
| 21:53.24 | solar | wished it was actually small enough to fit in the most fitting tin can embedded container around "Altoids Tin Can" |
| 21:53.43 | prpplague | solar: hehe |
| 21:53.46 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: No doubt! I've never tried such soldering before. I should have 3 boxes of stuff from TI coming now. :) |
| 21:53.49 | prpplague | solar: i'll see what i can do |
| 21:53.59 | solar | prpplague: touchscreen. slideout keypad. wifi, etc.. |
| 21:54.01 | prpplague | makes a note to get measurements for altoid can |
| 21:54.02 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: definitely need a new iron for this |
| 21:54.13 | prpplague | solar: for a webserver? |
| 21:54.26 | RobotGuy | solar: An altoids can hammer would be so appropriate too! |
| 21:54.51 | RobotGuy | I don't think Hammer will clear the lid of the can with the JTAG connector though. |
| 21:54.58 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 21:54.58 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 21:55.06 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea the jtag header would need to be altered |
| 21:55.26 | ds2 | would the hammer also be powered by a minty boost? |
| 21:55.39 | RobotGuy | prpplague: BTW, I really like the idea of an edge connector for JTAG. Was talking to Sienna about that the other day and she likes the idea too. |
| 21:55.58 | RobotGuy | ds2: Hammer has its own minty boost. |
| 21:56.11 | solar | I want a smartphone.. But.. i already know the default reply. |
| 21:56.11 | solar | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:56.23 | RobotGuy | It's called Open Source. :) |
| 21:56.24 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea what i was thinking was possible have the end in the shape of a sd card |
| 21:56.26 | ds2 | just include a edge to 20 pin header adapter cable for the JTAG |
| 21:56.31 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that way you could use a sd card socket |
| 21:56.32 | landley | If you can work out how to power the jtag off of mints, I'm interested in hearing about it. |
| 21:56.50 | landley | Penguin mints are a possibility, as are wintergreen lifesavers (they have the sparky thing) |
| 21:56.54 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Hmmm, interesting as long as nobody mistakes it for a real SD card slot. |
| 21:57.25 | prpplague | landley: oh god, i have nightmares about penguin mints |
| 21:57.42 | prpplague | landley: once when i was on a job in seattle, i bought a tin of those |
| 21:57.48 | prpplague | landley: i thought they were like altoids |
| 21:58.03 | prpplague | landley: didn't realize they had caffine |
| 21:58.16 | solar | same tin more or less right? |
| 21:58.17 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Uh oh, you ate too many of them, right? |
| 21:58.17 | prpplague | landley: didn't sleep for like 48 hours |
| 21:58.22 | landley | Yay penguin minuts! |
| 21:58.26 | prpplague | solar: yea |
| 21:58.39 | landley | At Penguicon, the con suite is sponsored by penguin mints. (Well, last year it was sponsored by google...) |
| 21:58.47 | landley | So they gave away free penguin mints. (I love the chocolate ones.) |
| 21:58.55 | landley | And penguin chewing gum, which is also caffienated. |
| 21:59.00 | RobotGuy | solar: I am going to take another try at Gentoo later. I so want to see Gentoo Embedded running on my Hammer. :) |
| 21:59.12 | landley | I remember a 5 year old chewing a whole pack at once. |
| 21:59.25 | prpplague | hehe |
| 21:59.44 | MonMotha | that's not terrible, really |
| 21:59.49 | MonMotha | that's like a few cups of coffee |
| 21:59.59 | MonMotha | it's like 3 mints makes the caffiene in a coke |
| 22:00.13 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: You do NOT want to see me after just one cup of coffee.. |
| 22:00.29 | MonMotha | I didn't say the kid wouldn't be hypre |
| 22:00.32 | MonMotha | but it's not like OMG |
| 22:00.38 | MonMotha | or certainly not zomg |
| 22:01.03 | RobotGuy | I'm not a kid either, and it still affects me adversely. |
| 22:02.54 | prpplague | hmm looks doable |
| 22:03.07 | prpplague | lid closes with the jtag too |
| 22:03.34 | prpplague | really the main question is about the openings in the case |
| 22:04.23 | prpplague | we'd have about 2.15 x 3.5 x 0.75 |
| 22:05.21 | prpplague | hmm |
| 22:05.30 | prpplague | what kind of i/o connectors |
| 22:06.01 | prpplague | solar: still around? |
| 22:06.39 | prpplague | round holes would be easiest |
| 22:08.49 | g1powermac_PB | well, just spent $120 at circuit specialists |
| 22:09.17 | g1powermac_PB | now i have at least a halfway decent soldering iron station, and some other stuff |
| 22:09.58 | solar | prpplague: yep. Just got back from lunch.. |
| 22:10.07 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: What did you get? |
| 22:11.03 | solar | RobotGuy: mostly really it's going to be busybox and working your way up from there. The good stuff you want like python can be cross compiled. But there are a few tricks. Perl is a no-go. As X if needed is mostly a headache |
| 22:11.23 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: digital soldering iron station, super tiny tip for said iron, two schmart boards, a vial of paste flux to solder TI chips to said schmart boards, and I'm getting a free really nice DMM :-) |
| 22:12.01 | MonMotha | I need to get a good DMM |
| 22:12.10 | MonMotha | I have two currently..one was like $2 and one was like $3 |
| 22:12.23 | RobotGuy | solar: I don't do PERL. :) I am interested in most other programming languages though, including Smalltalk (ala Squeak and others), Prolog, Snobol, Ocam-Pi, LISP, ADA, etc. |
| 22:12.24 | MonMotha | the $3 one has a beeper for continuity, which is handy |
| 22:12.35 | solar | markus: Re: TIME.. 3:11pm.. I happen to have a bar next to my place of employment that happens to serve beers. I'm only 8 floors up so I've got a private AP pointed right down there at it. Needless to say I sometimes take long lunched. |
| 22:12.43 | RobotGuy | And of course, Python. I can't be without Python. :) |
| 22:12.46 | g1powermac_PB | MonMotha: yea, the one I have came with my microcontroller kit I got years ago when I started electronics |
| 22:13.01 | g1powermac_PB | MonMotha: the probes suck pretty badly |
| 22:13.06 | RobotGuy | solar: Lucky fellow! |
| 22:13.25 | prpplague | solar: so we can put the hammer inside an altoid case, but what other peripherals would you want |
| 22:13.25 | solar | enjoys his life :) |
| 22:13.30 | MonMotha | I was lucky enough to get a set of probes that felt nice and worked well...until they broke |
| 22:13.31 | prpplague | solar: and what kind of connectors? |
| 22:13.35 | g1powermac_PB | was using his scope to act as a DMM just because it had better probes |
| 22:14.21 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: It sounds like you did well. Which digital station did you get? |
| 22:14.23 | g1powermac_PB | MonMotha: fun, one of the probes on mine kept breaking, the wire kept coming off the probe |
| 22:14.34 | MonMotha | the bananas on mine broke |
| 22:14.43 | markus | solar: only 8 floors? then you could use a wired connection... |
| 22:14.44 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/8396 |
| 22:14.45 | solar | prpplague: I'm kinda on a one/two track mind right now with embedded usage.. routers or pdas.. |
| 22:14.52 | prpplague | solar: ahh |
| 22:15.08 | g1powermac_PB | likes circuitspecialists, they make nice stuff |
| 22:15.12 | prpplague | solar: so you'd want some sort of small pda inside a altoid case? |
| 22:15.13 | g1powermac_PB | the scope I got was from them |
| 22:15.14 | solar | markus: actually I could. We have the basement floor also. Which is 1 floor below the pub |
| 22:15.22 | g1powermac_PB | even though the battery in it is dead |
| 22:15.31 | g1powermac_PB | (its a handheld scope) |
| 22:15.31 | prpplague | solar: probably couldn't take it to the airport, hehe |
| 22:15.31 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: Nice. |
| 22:15.48 | solar | prpplague: In reality no. I just think you might be able to turn a few parts of the existing nail side ways to put more in a smaller space. |
| 22:15.58 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/8422 |
| 22:16.01 | g1powermac_PB | thats the tip I got |
| 22:16.19 | prpplague | solar: ahh so basically the same items as the nail, just change the form to fit in a altoid case? |
| 22:16.22 | markus | or just use WEP, Wired Equivalency Privacy |
| 22:16.26 | RobotGuy | solar: I have an apparently bricked LinkSys WRT54GS router v8. It did not take well to an attempt to load DD-WRT on it. |
| 22:16.30 | solar | prpplague: with the goal being that you could carry it around in your pocket/laptop case vs a bulky round tube. |
| 22:16.47 | g1powermac_PB | http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/8794 |
| 22:16.51 | g1powermac_PB | and the solder flux |
| 22:16.53 | prpplague | solar: one sec |
| 22:16.54 | markus | doesn't know what he's talking about |
| 22:16.56 | solar | prpplague: but I've not seen the tube in person. So it's hard to say. But from the looks of it. It might be a bit bulky. |
| 22:17.17 | prpplague | its pretty small |
| 22:17.23 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: I have a Weller WES51 with 0.4mm tip. |
| 22:17.24 | prpplague | not as small as an altoid box |
| 22:17.33 | prpplague | but its pretty easy to carry |
| 22:17.46 | g1powermac_PB | lemme go see what iron I got right now |
| 22:19.31 | prpplague | solar: http://www.pactecenclosures.com/Plastic-Enclosures/PP.html |
| 22:19.45 | prpplague | solar: basically the exact same size as an altoid case |
| 22:20.43 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That removable end panel is just begging for connectors. |
| 22:20.49 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea |
| 22:21.23 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: the station part looks like this: http://www.action-electronics.com/grc/wewlc200.jpg |
| 22:21.27 | g1powermac_PB | though thats not the iron |
| 22:21.28 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Even replacable end panels with different connectors depending on the application. |
| 22:21.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I see a very tiny robot controller case in that. :) |
| 22:21.53 | prpplague | RobotGuy: naw, if we are doing the nail in that form factor, it would just be what already have |
| 22:22.06 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: http://www.amazon.com/Weller-SP40L-Marksman-Watt-Soldering/dp/B00018AR40 |
| 22:22.10 | g1powermac_PB | thats the iron |
| 22:23.36 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I was thinking out loud about possibilities. :) |
| 22:23.59 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: its really a cheapo thing |
| 22:24.02 | prpplague | solar: that case is just sightly longer than the altoid case |
| 22:24.09 | solar | prpplague: something like so. but that's way to big. |
| 22:24.12 | g1powermac_PB | think I got the station and the iron from Lowe's for like $40 |
| 22:24.26 | g1powermac_PB | actually prolly less |
| 22:24.33 | g1powermac_PB | maybe $30 |
| 22:24.59 | prpplague | solar: hmm, its only a 1/2 longer that an altoid case, same height and width |
| 22:25.07 | solar | (Sales/Marketing Pitch) but think of it like this. If ppl can carry it around in the pocket. Then more ppl will become exposed to the device. Which in the end gains more interest for the product. |
| 22:25.33 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: I should have the motors and servo controller wired up for W.A.L.T.E.R. today, and then all that will be to do is connect everything to Hammer and start writing software. I bought several servo extender cables with my last Lynxmotion order. |
| 22:25.53 | prpplague | solar: yea |
| 22:26.09 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: I still need to get some 2N7000's and figure out how I am going to connect everything to Hammer. |
| 22:26.29 | prpplague | solar: http://www.okwusa.com/products/okw/minitec/zoom/zB9002018.jpg |
| 22:26.54 | RobotGuy | Well, SSC-32 servo controller will be on the second serial port for sure. Motor controller connects to the SSC-32 at present. No more serial ports for anything else. :( |
| 22:27.17 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: kewl |
| 22:27.23 | prpplague | oh they have a wrist strap version now too |
| 22:27.23 | solar | that one could almost fit in your back pocket. And leave room for expantion. |
| 22:27.58 | solar | well. You would like like a real dork wearing anything that big even here in the silicon valley |
| 22:28.01 | g1powermac_PB | will relegate his old iron for big solder jobs, I think I got the chisel tip around somewhere |
| 22:28.03 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: I have to properly wire up and level shift the I2C bus also. I got some TI 8 pin DIP bi-dir level shifters. :) |
| 22:28.05 | ds2 | solar: by that line of reasoning, a REX6000 sized device would be ideal? |
| 22:28.22 | prpplague | solar: http://www.okwusa.com/products/okw/minitec/MIT_F.jpg |
| 22:28.50 | solar | ds2: these http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Rex6000.jpg ? |
| 22:28.51 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: nice, but I think there's a chip from NXP that is specifically meant for I2C level shifting |
| 22:28.51 | *** join/#edev roxfan (n=dunno@171.4-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 22:29.01 | ds2 | yep |
| 22:29.10 | g1powermac_PB | though you can't get free chips from NXP |
| 22:29.13 | ds2 | complete with a PCMCIA interface and touch screen running 2 CR2016's |
| 22:29.16 | prpplague | solar: heading home, bbiab, if you thinking of any, drop me a message |
| 22:29.28 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: It does the same thing as the TI chips I have. |
| 22:29.37 | g1powermac_PB | ahh, cool |
| 22:29.56 | RobotGuy | TI is generous with samples. :) |
| 22:30.04 | g1powermac_PB | for sure :-) |
| 22:30.11 | g1powermac_PB | oh, here's the free DMM I'm getting: http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/8883 |
| 22:30.16 | solar | prpplague: I'd wear that around my leg if it was a kismet sniffing device(maybe with gps) |
| 22:30.46 | g1powermac_PB | *sigh* need to go clean up, bbiab |
| 22:31.00 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: Nice. |
| 22:31.04 | solar | I don't actually find kismet alike stuff to be all that fun however. |
| 22:31.42 | RobotGuy | solar: OK, I've had enough of Windows. Got to have my Linux back (Gentoo). :D |
| 22:32.09 | RobotGuy | I'll be back in awhile, but probably longer than 20 minutes. :D |
| 22:32.15 | solar | glad he stopped by then |
| 22:32.18 | ds2 | for a wrist watch stuff, something like the fossil palm watch would be better |
| 22:32.52 | ds2 | the timex ironman datalink stuff is cool but a Linux device in the same form factor would be really nice |
| 22:33.32 | solar | ds2: yeah if that device has a pcmcia slot then you could nearly do just about anything. wifi/addon usb etc.. |
| 22:33.51 | ds2 | solar: no, that device _IS_ a PCMCIA card! |
| 22:34.00 | solar | hrmm |
| 22:35.03 | solar | you have one of these? |
| 22:35.24 | ds2 | I have an older version of it. the REX6000 can have programs downloaded; mine can't. |
| 22:39.01 | solar | looks like a neat device. But I don't think tct will be able to make a pcb that would be useful to the hacker community that could be that thin. |
| 22:39.29 | ds2 | the PCMCIA formfactor is standard and there are tons of sockets out there |
| 22:39.45 | ds2 | with 68 pins, that's more then what's on the current board even if you include jtag |
| 22:49.46 | g1powermac_PB | http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/08/05/21/2136243.shtml |
| 22:49.49 | g1powermac_PB | ooo, nice |
| 22:50.10 | g1powermac_PB | wishes it wasn't pci-x though, only got an old agp system |
| 23:02.23 | *** join/#edev ejdav_gon (n=james@d75-157-13-250.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 23:04.36 | *** join/#edev roxfan (n=dunno@171.4-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 23:05.28 | *** join/#edev Crofton (n=balister@66-207-66-26.black.dmt.ntelos.net) |
| 23:05.40 | *** join/#edev jdav_gone (n=james@d75-157-13-250.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 23:36.17 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (i=robotguy@dsl093-038-119.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 23:36.49 | RobotGuy | returns, back in Windows. |
