| 00:07.07 | sunrunner20 | sigh |
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| 04:44.57 | sunrunner20 | mmmmm |
| 04:44.59 | sunrunner20 | hot glue |
| 04:45.21 | sunrunner20 | covers a problematic cap in hot glue |
| 04:46.13 | sunrunner20 | HEY |
| 04:46.39 | sunrunner20 | I can walk into Velleman and SHOW them how their DMM screws up my circuit |
| 05:17.46 | sunrunner20 | hrm |
| 05:17.52 | sunrunner20 | annoying pice of junk |
| 05:18.01 | sunrunner20 | doesn't screw up my sircuit |
| 05:18.02 | sunrunner20 | err |
| 05:18.04 | sunrunner20 | circuit |
| 05:18.37 | sunrunner20 | just a bunch of really lousy coinadinces |
| 05:19.26 | sunrunner20 | I don't have the balls to accuse a Fluke DMM of lieing, because I know it won't :) |
| 05:20.01 | MonMotha | if they are not properly calibrated, any DMM can lie |
| 05:21.01 | sunrunner20 | I don't think a fluke would be off by that much... |
| 05:21.03 | sunrunner20 | ever |
| 05:22.30 | sunrunner20 | untill you start talking about 10% error and kV |
| 05:22.55 | sunrunner20 | but |
| 05:23.04 | sunrunner20 | this was in the 1-20 rang |
| 05:23.08 | sunrunner20 | *range |
| 05:23.19 | sunrunner20 | and it was off by more than 4 volts |
| 05:23.36 | sunrunner20 | value was like 2.8 was reading 6 |
| 05:23.48 | sunrunner20 | yea |
| 05:24.06 | MonMotha | well, I'd say that's either user error or outright malfunction |
| 05:24.07 | sunrunner20 | lets see a fluke do that unless purposely miscaclulated |
| 05:24.26 | sunrunner20 | MonMotha: crappy, DMM + low battery |
| 05:24.34 | sunrunner20 | errr |
| 05:24.38 | sunrunner20 | crappy DMM |
| 05:25.02 | sunrunner20 | it runs off of an A23... |
| 05:27.47 | sunrunner20 | 1cmx2.2cm |
| 05:30.45 | sunrunner20 | its the type of dmm the you go "opps" and throw it away when you break it |
| 05:34.04 | MonMotha | spend the $50 and get a decent multimeter |
| 05:36.14 | solar | landley: http://dev.gentoo.org/~solar/embedded/tct/boards-arm-nailboard.xml |
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| 05:42.15 | landley | solar: cool! |
| 05:42.25 | landley | Still haven't found mine, but I've found a number of place it isn't. |
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| 07:22.00 | [AD]Turbo | hi all |
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| 11:59.00 | T0mW | interesting |
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| 14:45.13 | prpplague | hmm |
| 14:45.17 | prpplague | have no clue what this means |
| 14:45.21 | prpplague | Extended Input Devices not yet supported. Impelement it at line 637 in kinput.c |
| 14:45.25 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you? |
| 14:45.33 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: related to touchscreen driver? |
| 14:45.49 | CosmicPenguin | only by marriage |
| 14:46.20 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:55.26 | CosmicPenguin | fun times on the linux-embedded list |
| 14:55.40 | prpplague | i simply don't understand this error, it is sooo vague |
| 14:56.49 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yep |
| 14:57.55 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: exactly the kind of problems that i see, embedded has a wide range of areas, from the low end no mmu with very very minimal resources to x86 boards with loads of ram and storage |
| 14:58.19 | CosmicPenguin | What does that have to do with the price of tea in china? |
| 14:59.07 | RobotGuy | The same thing a bull being characterized as subtle. :) |
| 14:59.32 | RobotGuy | kids around with everybodu |
| 15:00.05 | CosmicPenguin | um, yeah.... |
| 15:01.02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: basically stuff like this - |
| 15:01.03 | prpplague | > system. For example I don't think I'll ever be able to self host a |
| 15:01.03 | prpplague | > kernel build on a board with only 32Mb of on-board RAM. |
| 15:01.03 | prpplague | It depends. We've done this on board with as little as 16 MB RAM. |
| 15:01.16 | CosmicPenguin | Yeah, but thats all silly |
| 15:01.54 | CosmicPenguin | The question wasn't if you _could_ compile a kernel on target |
| 15:02.08 | CosmicPenguin | clearly you can - bully for you, have a cookie |
| 15:02.20 | CosmicPenguin | The argument doesn't further the discussion |
| 15:04.22 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: indeed, i was merly point out how people argue from different ranges of resources, and often don't distinguish between what is possible and what is practical |
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| 15:13.24 | prpplague | hmm looks like that has nothing to do with x not starting properly |
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| 15:23.49 | RobotGuy | Ack, my server is all messed up and I don't know why or how. :( |
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| 15:27.51 | sunrunner20 | wsdfafsaf |
| 15:27.58 | sunrunner20 | hip hop hipttity hop |
| 15:28.18 | sunrunner20 | kk |
| 15:28.18 | sunrunner20 | mmm |
| 15:28.20 | sunrunner20 | this |
| 15:28.22 | sunrunner20 | is a good mod |
| 15:28.28 | sunrunner20 | smooth, clean |
| 15:28.49 | sunrunner20 | if only the wires weren't green >_< |
| 15:29.24 | sunrunner20 | they contrast awkwardly inside the crystal blue tent of the gameboy advance lol |
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| 16:28.56 | g1powermac_apl | got to use his new soldering iron today :-) |
| 16:29.10 | g1powermac_apl | and of course broke it in with some good human flesh |
| 16:30.42 | g1powermac_apl | http://www.flickr.com/photos/77471288@N00/2568222450/ |
| 16:30.52 | g1powermac_apl | testing out what some of the different resets do |
| 16:30.57 | g1powermac_apl | on my sega nomad |
| 16:40.07 | g1powermac_apl | ponders which reset to use when reloading a rom into my custom cartridge |
| 16:54.10 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_apl: The BIG RED one. :) |
| 16:54.25 | g1powermac_apl | RobotGuy, there's two in that shot ;-) |
| 16:54.41 | g1powermac_apl | is putting together a video clip that shows what each reset does |
| 16:54.54 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_apl: Press both of them and see what happens.. :) |
| 16:57.40 | g1powermac_apl | hmm, kinda helps to install ffmpeg ;-) |
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| 17:10.57 | g1powermac_apl | sigh, this sucker isn't behaving nicely today |
| 17:16.57 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_apl: Neither is my server. I think it's heading for an HD crash. :( |
| 17:17.45 | RobotGuy | I do NOT need this happening right now. |
| 17:26.23 | g1powermac_PB | meh, will have to work on this later |
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| 18:54.09 | prpplague | landley: hey hey, when did you sneak in? |
| 18:54.36 | landley | Left my laptop on overnight. :) |
| 18:54.58 | prpplague | ahh |
| 18:55.03 | landley | I quit the second consulting gig on friday, and plan to spend at least through august focusing on embedded stuff and trying to launch consulting stuff that'll pay my bills. |
| 18:55.08 | ds2 | waits for linux-tiny traffic to increase again :) |
| 18:55.12 | landley | Without having to deal with C++ and windows machines and exchange servers and so on... |
| 18:55.20 | landley | ds2: linux-tiny moved to linux-embedded@vger.kernel.org |
| 18:55.25 | landley | That's the new mailing list where everything's happening. |
| 18:55.39 | ds2 | landley: completely? wasn't clear from that post |
| 18:55.50 | landley | The reason I left my laptop on overnight is I'm convering every _defconfig in 2.6.25.4 into a _miniconfig, and I'm going to tar 'em up and send 'em to that list. |
| 18:55.55 | prpplague | landley: wasn't having any fun at work? hehe |
| 18:56.15 | chouimat|work | hey prpplague |
| 18:56.15 | landley | ds2: mm's announced plans to shut down linux-tiny, he just hasn't said when. |
| 18:56.23 | landley | prpplague: I think that's been obvious, yes. |
| 18:56.30 | landley | At silabs, their firewall blocked _google_. |
| 18:56.38 | landley | You can't even argue with that. |
| 18:57.00 | prpplague | landley: oh? why shut down linux-tiny? |
| 18:57.21 | ds2 | that's what happens when you use an 8051 for a firewall ;) |
| 18:57.22 | ds2 | j/k |
| 18:57.52 | landley | prpplague: there were zero posts to it last month, and four the month before. |
| 18:58.09 | landley | Traffic pretty much dropped off to zero ever since Matt stopped maininging the linux-tiny tree. |
| 18:58.11 | prpplague | landley: ahh |
| 18:58.20 | landley | When the CELF guys picked it up, they had their own CELF lists for most of their discussion. |
| 18:58.45 | landley | And if the goal is to merge patches into mainline, a list on vger with maintainer in MAINTAINERS is probably the better place to discuss 'em. |
| 18:58.55 | ds2 | it isn't like ce-dev is that much more active |
| 18:59.01 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: getting an illegal instruction which is causing Xfbdev to segfault |
| 18:59.46 | ds2 | prpplague: do you have EABI enabled? |
| 18:59.53 | prpplague | ds2: yea |
| 19:00.04 | ds2 | prpplague: and you are using the Samsung proc like the hammer? |
| 19:00.11 | prpplague | ds2: s3c2440 |
| 19:00.25 | ds2 | is that also ARMv4t? |
| 19:00.28 | prpplague | yea |
| 19:00.35 | prpplague | arm920t |
| 19:00.45 | ds2 | IIRC, ARMv4t has not been really tested with EABI |
| 19:01.03 | ds2 | so you are on virgin territory |
| 19:01.07 | prpplague | ds2: yea, the openmoko guys supposed had poky running fully with eabi |
| 19:01.16 | prpplague | ds2: which is why i went with eabi for testing |
| 19:01.24 | ds2 | supposed :) |
| 19:01.29 | prpplague | ds2: but it definetly is looking more and more like eabi is problem matic |
| 19:01.39 | prpplague | landley: well good to see you back on irc |
| 19:01.45 | ds2 | *nod* |
| 19:01.49 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 19:01.53 | landley | Thanks. |
| 19:02.24 | ds2 | landley is also responsible for a 200% traffic increase in on linux-tiny ;) |
| 19:02.44 | landley | I need to find my darn nail board so I can finish writing up a HOWTO for andrew morton... |
| 19:02.50 | landley | It's around here somewhere... |
| 19:03.05 | landley | ds2: every one of those messages is a cc: from linux-embedded. |
| 19:03.15 | ds2 | landley: i did notice that |
| 19:06.19 | adyer | wonders if you'd get tetanus from stepping on a nail board :-) |
| 19:07.07 | landley | adyer: nah, most of the sharp bits look like copper or something. |
| 19:07.11 | landley | Tetanus is specific to iron. |
| 19:08.19 | landley | The reason I left my laptop on overnight is to convert all the _defconfig in the 2.6.25.4 kernel to _miniconfig files. |
| 19:08.29 | landley | When I came down this morning, it was doing the powerpc directory. |
| 19:08.33 | landley | It's still doing the powerpc directory. |
| 19:08.39 | landley | Wow there are some bloated config files in there... |
| 19:08.47 | landley | When it's done shrinking them the _result_ is usually around 400 lines... |
| 19:12.42 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: stop breaking the law! |
| 19:13.07 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ?? |
| 19:36.57 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea it definetly looks to be something with eabi |
| 19:37.56 | CosmicPenguin | doh |
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| 19:38.29 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i downloaded a bunch of the oabi builds for openmoko and pieced something together to test |
| 19:38.36 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: appears to run without a problem |
| 19:38.42 | ds2 | the compiler might be generating code that doesn't work on ARMv4... I think the entry to thumb is diff on v4 |
| 19:38.56 | ds2 | s/v4/v4t/g |
| 19:39.09 | ds2 | wow purl understands the 'g' flag! |
| 19:40.30 | prpplague | ds2: yea, i curious as to why it was only causing a problem with kdrive |
| 19:49.16 | CosmicPenguin | wow - Tim Bird's utility on linux-embedded might be really useful |
| 19:52.11 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: which one is that? |
| 19:53.42 | CosmicPenguin | the kconfig diff |
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| 19:55.05 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ahh |
| 19:55.39 | RobotGuy | Greetings, programs. |
| 19:56.01 | RobotGuy | grins |
| 19:56.57 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: didn't realize how much time is used on the fetch and unpack |
| 19:57.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: go away MCP |
| 19:57.25 | prpplague | jokes with RobotGuy on his TRON reference |
| 19:58.48 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: does it always fetch and unpack all the sources first? |
| 19:59.46 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: because so far it looks like over 1/2 of the tasks are fetch and unpack |
| 20:00.12 | CosmicPenguin | it always calls the fetch and unpack tasks |
| 20:00.22 | CosmicPenguin | but if the file exists and its a good md5sum, then it won't refresh it |
| 20:00.49 | prpplague | right i figured that, but buildroot always does the compile right after the fetch and unpack |
| 20:01.26 | prpplague | what i'm seeing is that its fetching and unpacking for a bunch of packages before it even starts to compile some of them |
| 20:01.42 | CosmicPenguin | yes - tasks in OE are less rigid then in buildroot |
| 20:02.11 | CosmicPenguin | it figures out which tasks it can do in parallel, and fetch / unpack are great jobs for operating in parallel |
| 20:02.30 | CosmicPenguin | even if the configure stage requires dependencies |
| 20:03.05 | CosmicPenguin | And if you have BB_THREADS set to something high, then you'll see lots of parallel threads happening, and most of them at an early stage will be fetch |
| 20:04.59 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: this build seems to be going alot faster than the earlier 3 |
| 20:05.17 | CosmicPenguin | you probably have actually less things to fetch |
| 20:05.24 | CosmicPenguin | still lots of tarballs in common living in the source repo |
| 20:18.19 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Hee hee |
| 20:19.13 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i'm hoping that this oabi build finishes before eod |
| 20:19.22 | CosmicPenguin | good luck |
| 20:21.20 | prpplague | welp so much for that idea |
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| 20:26.28 | RobotGuy | I think my server is going towards failure. :( |
| 20:27.48 | RobotGuy | Sheesh, everything seems to be failing here lately. :( |
| 20:30.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Those TX ladies are nice. :D |
| 20:31.20 | prpplague | doesn't know what TX ladies RobotGuy is refering to |
| 20:31.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague: On a dating site. :D |
| 20:31.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: And in general. :) |
| 20:31.43 | chouimat|work | prpplague: those born outside TX ;) |
| 20:32.36 | CosmicPenguin | high maintainance ladies though |
| 20:32.49 | CosmicPenguin | They are hot, and they know it |
| 20:32.57 | RobotGuy | Dang, lost all my tabs in Firefox. :( I had about 50 tabs open. |
| 20:33.18 | RobotGuy | CosmicPenguin: I don't think the ones I am seeing are high maintenance. |
| 21:02.08 | prpplague | bangs head on desk |
| 21:14.04 | RobotGuy | declares this a no banging head zone |
| 21:15.11 | solar | digs up some old metal in defiance |
| 21:16.18 | prpplague | any of you compilier gurus know what the -fpie option is for? |
| 21:18.09 | prpplague | solar: so did you get it to buzz? |
| 21:18.26 | prpplague | solar: i need to tweak the driver , its not getting a full square wave |
| 21:18.36 | prpplague | solar: so its alot softer than it should be |
| 21:20.06 | solar | prpplague: get it to buzz? No. My /sys/devices/platform/tct_hammer-beeper.0/ only has 4 files none of which are input. |
| 21:20.22 | adyer | prpplague: something about 'position independent executable' |
| 21:20.24 | solar | led0 works however. |
| 21:20.34 | solar | loves on position independent executables |
| 21:21.48 | prpplague | hmm, i could have sworn thats the correct directory |
| 21:21.59 | landley | prpplague: position independent executable. |
| 21:22.08 | solar | there is a /sys/class/input/input0/beep (but it's N/A) |
| 21:23.11 | prpplague | solar: hmm, i'll have to look, i must have written it down wrong |
| 21:23.13 | landley | prpplague: prpplague: maybe this is relevant, http://udrepper.livejournal.com/2005/10/09/ |
| 21:23.22 | adyer | lol. given the recent Reiser conviction I thinks it's ironic that when I look at slashdot, I got an ad for a russian dating service :-) |
| 21:23.24 | prpplague | landley: thanks looking |
| 21:23.28 | solar | I'll make it easy to understand |
| 21:23.33 | solar | it's a ET_DYN with main() |
| 21:33.22 | prpplague | solar: ping |
| 21:33.45 | solar | yeah |
| 21:34.05 | prpplague | solar: so if you cd to /sys/devices/platform/tct_hammer-beeper.0/input:input1 |
| 21:34.10 | prpplague | solar: and then do an ls |
| 21:34.16 | prpplague | solar: there is no beep file? |
| 21:34.56 | solar | No can do. |
| 21:34.57 | solar | sys/devices/platform/tct_hammer-beeper.0 # ls |
| 21:34.57 | solar | driver modalias subsystem uevent |
| 21:35.50 | solar | unless it's tied to the in kernel keyboard functionality. I don't see why it would of gone. |
| 21:37.31 | prpplague | hmm |
| 21:37.35 | prpplague | thats really weird |
| 21:37.43 | prpplague | i'll have to test to see why its not working |
| 21:37.53 | prpplague | you are using the same config thats on your handbook page? |
| 21:38.20 | solar | prpplague: You must of not looked at a single link I pasted :) |
| 21:38.34 | solar | http://rafb.net/p/YPlxwg79.html (the diff) |
| 21:38.40 | prpplague | solar: i did , just confirming |
| 21:38.58 | solar | the config is changed. Cuz the default did not allow networking of nearly any kind by default. |
| 21:40.23 | prpplague | solar: did you make any changes to the mach-tct_hammer.c file? |
| 21:40.43 | solar | 0 changes. |
| 21:40.58 | prpplague | hmm |
| 21:41.02 | prpplague | very very interesting |
| 21:41.08 | solar | took whats on the CD. loaded up a new .config and make zImage. |
| 21:41.12 | prpplague | ok, i'll setup a test case in the morning |
| 21:42.10 | solar | http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/handbook/?part=4&chap=1 (everthing is under 1d) |
| 21:44.24 | prpplague | solar: do this: cat /sys/class/input/input0/name |
| 21:46.23 | solar | TCT Hammer beeper |
| 21:46.44 | solar | sys/class/input/input0 # cat beep |
| 21:46.44 | solar | N/A |
| 21:47.33 | solar | oh snap however |
| 21:47.40 | solar | it just buzzed anyway :) |
| 21:48.39 | prpplague | solar: ok so the beep file is there? |
| 21:48.56 | solar | yes. tested duration & beep |
| 21:49.41 | prpplague | solar: when you removed the key page the beeper was changed from input1 to input0 |
| 21:50.04 | prpplague | solar: key driver i mean |
| 21:50.24 | solar | the keyboard input stuff? |
| 21:50.32 | prpplague | solar: yea, the inputs are number |
| 21:50.34 | prpplague | number |
| 21:50.36 | prpplague | argh |
| 21:50.38 | prpplague | numbered |
| 21:50.58 | prpplague | solar: so when the gpio-keys driver was removed the buzzer dropped down one to input0 |
| 21:51.27 | solar | ahh and it's hard-coded elsewhere I take it. |
| 21:51.48 | prpplague | solar: not just my instructions on the page were listed as input1 |
| 21:51.59 | prpplague | echo 4096 > /sys/devices/platform/tct_hammer-beeper.0/input\:input1/beep |
| 21:52.02 | prpplague | should have been |
| 21:52.06 | prpplague | echo 4096 > /sys/devices/platform/tct_hammer-beeper.0/input\:input0/beep |
| 21:53.10 | solar | brb cancer improvement time |
| 21:53.22 | prpplague | okie dokie |
| 22:07.54 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 22:07.54 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 22:16.24 | *** join/#edev ico2_ (n=ico2@modem-1488.chameleon.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 22:18.34 | prpplague | http://www.halted.com/commerce/ccp21772-sohoware-s-firewall-and-vpn-appliance-bbr1000-21538.htm |
| 22:18.38 | prpplague | ixp425 based |
| 22:18.45 | prpplague | looks like it might be hackable |
| 22:22.43 | ds2 | isn't that the proc used in the NSLU? |
| 22:24.12 | prpplague | iirc yea |
| 22:24.29 | ds2 | $60 is a bit steep |
| 22:25.26 | solar | If I'm going for cheap. Without a doubt I'd opt for the routerboard series of devices |
| 22:25.53 | ds2 | routerboard? |
| 22:26.07 | solar | http://routerboard.com/prices.html |
| 22:26.56 | prpplague | oh thats nice |
| 22:27.07 | prpplague | thats priced just right for a MIPS board |
| 22:27.25 | ds2 | don't look that much cheaper |
| 22:28.13 | ds2 | guess I am spoiled by the WRT54's |
| 22:29.20 | solar | yeah but compare the price to a wrt54g. About the same or cheaper. It's got real ethX ports vs 1 thats vlaned out. It's got on board wifi (for cheaper than you can buy a wifi pcmcia card) |
| 22:29.31 | solar | it's also mipsel based iirc. |
| 22:30.11 | solar | hate to admit it even. They had a pretty slick default embedded-distro they put together that works well. |
| 22:33.09 | ds2 | same? I paid on the average $15 for a WRT54 |
| 22:35.50 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_apl (i=g1powerm@CPE-76-177-156-202.natcky.res.rr.com) |
| 23:04.18 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-245-138-220.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 23:04.29 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 23:05.38 | prpplague | wow i got a "server too busy" on monster.com |
| 23:06.08 | prpplague | tries dice.com instead |
| 23:13.58 | ds2 | prpplague: project not going well? :) |
| 23:16.22 | prpplague | ds2 assholes at work not going well |
| 23:16.36 | RobotGuy | Bummer |
| 23:17.15 | RobotGuy | Uploading 2.9 GB takes awhile. |
| 23:18.13 | RobotGuy | sends W.A.L.T.E.R. to deal with all the arses. |
| 23:18.18 | ds2 | plural? more then just the EE? |
| 23:19.24 | ohsix | bootstrapping gnat takes an extra step, it builds the C compiler and then rebuilds the C compiler with ada too! |
| 23:24.06 | solar | ds2: pretty good deals you were getting. When I was first getting into that device they were all ~$100 each. |
| 23:25.38 | *** join/#edev cajaka (i=dirc@chil-nrp1-cs-1345.vdsl.bright.net) |
| 23:27.57 | adyer | solar: you have to factor the consumer electronics PITA factor in though. How many versions of WRT54G are there. I know the officially linuxworthy version cost a fair bit more |
| 23:30.31 | prpplague | ds2 yea its spreading |
| 23:30.44 | prpplague | ds2 everyone is realizing its "every man for himself" |
| 23:30.55 | ds2 | Hmmm |
| 23:31.08 | ds2 | and the owner isn't doing anything at all? |
| 23:31.16 | prpplague | solar i'll try to make some time in the morning if i can to do some hammer tweaking |
| 23:31.21 | prpplague | solar you gonna me around? |
| 23:31.52 | prpplague | ds2 yea he's pretty much letting the president run AML, he's playing around with tct |
| 23:33.16 | ds2 | oh and mr president isn't doing anything about it either? |
| 23:33.46 | prpplague | ds2 mr.president is part of the problem |
| 23:33.53 | ds2 | DOH |
| 23:34.06 | prpplague | ds2 he's totally ignoring the fact that the EE is creating massive problems |
| 23:34.17 | ds2 | who hired that guy? |
| 23:34.23 | prpplague | ds2 seems he is aware of it, just doesn't want to do anything about it |
| 23:34.28 | prpplague | ds2 mr.pres himself |
| 23:34.35 | ds2 | Ohhhh |
| 23:34.46 | ds2 | he can't quite toast him or he'll look bad |
| 23:34.56 | prpplague | ds2 so yesterday, me and another guy took a quick accounting |
| 23:35.15 | MonMotha | just an FYI to anybody contemplating the Atmel ARM9s, you will have EMI issues |
| 23:35.15 | prpplague | ds2 in 18 months the EE hasn't completed a single project |
| 23:35.38 | prpplague | MonMotha oh? |
| 23:35.40 | prpplague | do tell |
| 23:35.52 | prpplague | http://jobview.monster.com/GetJob.aspx?JobID=72580325&JobTitle=Embedded+Linux+Software+Engineer&q=embedded+linux&rad=40&rad_units=miles&zip=76053&brd=1&cy=us&vw=b&AVSDM=2008-06-05+15%3a24%3a00&pg=1&seq=1 |
| 23:36.03 | MonMotha | prpplague: I've found a couple USENET postings that back this up. The CPU core seems to radiate pretty badly |
| 23:36.16 | MonMotha | we're 5dB above the limit, though our enclosure provides basically no shielding |
| 23:36.19 | prpplague | interesting |
| 23:36.28 | prpplague | MonMotha holy cow |
| 23:36.29 | MonMotha | thing is, that core clock is contained to within the CPU and on the PLL loop filter |
| 23:36.32 | prpplague | 5db/ |
| 23:36.33 | prpplague | ? |
| 23:36.37 | MonMotha | yes, 5dB |
| 23:36.42 | prpplague | jeeze |
| 23:36.53 | MonMotha | it's a spike right at the CPU clock |
| 23:36.54 | prpplague | redesign pcb or case? |
| 23:37.07 | ds2 | new solid aluminum cases? :) |
| 23:37.13 | MonMotha | near as I can tell, it's not a PCB issue. It's not coupling onto any lines or anything |
| 23:37.20 | MonMotha | others have reported that the chip itself just radiates |
| 23:37.25 | ds2 | what package? |
| 23:37.31 | MonMotha | it's a fine pitch BGA |
| 23:37.41 | MonMotha | I have 3 full planes underneath it, but there are lots of holes |
| 23:37.58 | prpplague | MonMotha metal shielding similiar to what's used on rf modules? |
| 23:38.08 | MonMotha | prpplague: I'm looking at that |
| 23:38.32 | MonMotha | also possibly just putting the whole PCB into a metal enclosure (or at least a top cover that wraps around with a lip to the underside) |
| 23:38.36 | prpplague | MonMotha you can get a metal tool for that, but its going to cost in the range of 2 to 3 k |
| 23:38.43 | MonMotha | yeah |
| 23:38.50 | MonMotha | we already have tooling for the plastic enclosure |
| 23:38.52 | ds2 | what about aluminum tape ? |
| 23:38.56 | MonMotha | also looking at the conductive paint stuff |
| 23:38.57 | adyer | fancy super low ESR decoupling caps and blind/buried vias :-( |
| 23:39.07 | MonMotha | adyer: I have fancy super low ESR decoupling caps |
| 23:39.35 | prpplague | oh lordy lordy |
| 23:39.37 | MonMotha | I'm going to add a couple unpopulated ceramics back to the bottom (only two parts on the bottom, so I was hoping to avoid the 2-sided assembly) and see what that does |
| 23:39.38 | ds2 | MonMotha: is it the clock or a harmonic that is +5db? |
| 23:39.44 | MonMotha | ds2: clock itself |
| 23:39.51 | ds2 | Oh my |
| 23:39.57 | MonMotha | right at 200MHz |
| 23:40.10 | MonMotha | everything else on the board runs at a frequency that is unlikely to hit 200MHz |
| 23:40.26 | MonMotha | SDRAM is 133, onboard peripherals are much lower clock (usually 25MHz or less, though some could hit 200MHz as a harmonic) |
| 23:41.39 | MonMotha | LCD is 37MHz, and despite having a rather long flex cable to it, no problems apparently |
| 23:42.03 | adyer | is there a PLL supply you can filter the bejeezus out of? |
| 23:42.10 | MonMotha | I've looked at the layout. Power looks pretty clean. Shouldn't be any excessively large loops. VCORE regulator is pretty near the chip. |
| 23:42.43 | MonMotha | adyer: there is, though I already have some filtering. I could possibly give it a dedicated regulator and power/return traces and filter the whole area |
| 23:42.57 | MonMotha | from the reports I've heard though, it's not the exteral stuff, it's the chip itself just radiates |
| 23:43.07 | prpplague | goes to the porch to drink beer |
| 23:43.10 | prpplague | bbiab |
| 23:43.12 | prpplague | later folks |
| 23:43.20 | adyer | MonMotha: did you test more than one board? maybe PLL supply is open and powered parasitically... |
| 23:43.21 | ds2 | what about a piece of copper tape on top of the chip? |
| 23:43.39 | MonMotha | I'm wondering if there's some section on a top metal layer that jus thappens to be a good antenna at 200MHz or somehting |
| 23:43.59 | MonMotha | adyer: test lab only had one board (we only have a total of 4 prototypes atm) |
| 23:44.20 | MonMotha | I'm going to add those extra decoupling caps and send that back along with some options with various levels of shielding |
| 23:44.30 | MonMotha | basically just have them test them until they work and that's what it costs |
| 23:44.55 | ds2 | get a bare PCB and use a grid dip meter at 200MHz to check? |
| 23:44.55 | MonMotha | just seems pretty ridiculous that this is the only problem |
| 23:45.05 | adyer | MonMotha: the one shaped like a 37 cm antenna :-) |
| 23:45.08 | MonMotha | ds2: I mean on the chip, not the PCB |
| 23:45.30 | ds2 | if it is a resonant structure, a bare chip should also register on a grid dip meter |
| 23:45.40 | MonMotha | I somehow doubt that it is |
| 23:45.51 | MonMotha | my solution was going to be to just detune the CPU clock some |
| 23:45.57 | MonMotha | run it at 190MHz or whatever |
| 23:46.02 | MonMotha | too bad there's no spread spectrum clock option |
| 23:46.11 | ds2 | isn't it cheaper to just tack a piece of copper tape on top like a heat sink? |
| 23:46.29 | adyer | MonMotha: jitter the input clock and let the pll freerun :-) |
| 23:46.31 | MonMotha | changing the CPU clock is just software since it has a PLL |
| 23:46.35 | ds2 | what is your reference? the 32KHz xtal? |
| 23:46.42 | MonMotha | reference is a 16MHz xtal |
| 23:59.30 | adyer | MonMotha: you know a good place for flex circuit stuff? |
| 23:59.31 | MonMotha | unfortunately no |
| 23:59.31 | MonMotha | I've never had to do a custom flex circuit |
| 23:59.31 | adyer | MonMotha: never done it or all the ones you know are bad? :-) |
| 23:59.31 | MonMotha | never done it |
| 23:59.31 | MonMotha | mostly don't want to pay for it |
| 23:59.31 | MonMotha | most of the projects I work on are relatively low volume and can't support things like that |
| 23:59.31 | adyer | MonMotha: yeah, but our cust. really wanted a hinged display, so we're stuck with it |
| 23:59.31 | MonMotha | ah |
| 23:59.31 | MonMotha | can't use an off the shelf flex cable? |
| 23:59.37 | MonMotha | or even discrete wire |
| 23:59.54 | adyer | MonMotha: nah, custom enclosure and they dont want to run lvds |