| 00:00.20 | solar | ds2: something like that yes. Check this handy little c file. |
| 00:00.35 | solar | ds2: http://dev.gentoo.org/~solar/embedded/tct/usb-hub-ctrl.c |
| 00:01.53 | RobotGuy | solar: No /dev/sda? device files are being created. |
| 00:02.14 | solar | RobotGuy: right. |
| 00:02.40 | solar | RobotGuy: the mdev.conf stuff you have is 1) out of date. 2) does not trigger upon rebots. |
| 00:03.06 | RobotGuy | solar: How do I get updated? |
| 00:03.10 | solar | but then #2 does not really matter. One can mount via /etc/fstab for a fixed device |
| 00:03.53 | solar | RobotGuy: Can't get ya updated tonite most likely. |
| 00:04.07 | ds2 | is udev or the equiv running? |
| 00:05.09 | solar | ds2: trying to make mdev handle it. Right now it handles hotplug events just fine. Just RobotGuy is seeing that the hotplug script does not mount his stuff unless there is actually a hotplug (add/remove) action |
| 00:05.26 | solar | which makes sense |
| 00:05.43 | ds2 | ah gotcha |
| 00:05.50 | ds2 | <--- prefers a static /dev |
| 00:06.47 | solar | I used to. But to be honest. for embedded-devel. mdev is just so spot on. |
| 00:07.02 | ds2 | what does mdev bring? |
| 00:07.11 | solar | vs static dev? |
| 00:07.14 | ds2 | yep |
| 00:07.32 | solar | bigger/smaller /dev/ based on what you actually have compiled in. |
| 00:08.02 | ds2 | my dev's are usually pretty sparse so I donno how useful that is |
| 00:08.33 | solar | but the biggest gain for me. Is when I add a new driver. The nods are there. When I remove it.. It's done. I don't need to spend a day searching for the right major/minors. |
| 00:08.53 | ds2 | Hmmm |
| 00:09.07 | solar | plus I hate udev |
| 00:09.43 | ds2 | not sure what you mean by searching... it is usually a 1 min. max exercise - cat /proc/devices or cat /proc/misc; and typing out the mknod statement (usually 3-4 times cuz backspace don't work with the busybox shell) |
| 00:10.18 | solar | backspace? |
| 00:10.28 | ds2 | yeah |
| 00:10.30 | solar | using ash? |
| 00:10.47 | ds2 | think so, it is the smallest shell offered |
| 00:11.04 | solar | nope. I think lsh or msh were the smallest ones. |
| 00:11.14 | solar | but ash is the only really usable one imo. |
| 00:11.30 | ds2 | might have been one of those it is a busybox I keep around for quick checks |
| 00:11.39 | RobotGuy | Is ash built into busybox? |
| 00:11.46 | solar | ds2: anyway. So the neat thing. Is mdev is really static in a way. |
| 00:11.52 | ds2 | there is an option for it |
| 00:12.18 | magnetron | RobotGuy, yes. |
| 00:12.18 | ds2 | solar: think mdev's ability to hook into the hotplug event is the only thing that stand out |
| 00:12.25 | solar | mdev -s ; poof you just created all the nods your device can support. Never call it again and call it a day |
| 00:13.16 | ds2 | except if you are trying to prune your boot time; that's 0.xx seconds you've lost with the fork/exec |
| 00:13.52 | solar | ds2: I mean 1 time. Like before you ship a final product with a static dev |
| 00:14.46 | ds2 | ah, like an intelligent MAKEDEV |
| 00:15.09 | ds2 | and /dev is a real fs, not tmpfs? |
| 00:15.45 | solar | well. that would be up to the person who was making the firmware I'd think. |
| 00:16.09 | solar | for QA testing a r-w fs sure makes things eaiser. |
| 00:16.45 | ds2 | *nod* thinking more of a rootfs on JFFS2 or union'ed with JFFS2 backstore |
| 00:17.01 | solar | same. 1 time. Done. Or call it everytime. Your call |
| 00:17.18 | RobotGuy | solar: What do I need to do to get this to work for me? |
| 00:23.02 | solar | Probalby my example conf |
| 00:23.10 | solar | or simply put in into fstab |
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| 01:00.38 | RobotGuy | solar: I already have /dev/sda1 in /etc/fstab |
| 01:13.17 | g1powermac | hmm |
| 01:13.28 | g1powermac | wants to buy an old apple II for the fun of it. . . |
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| 01:26.22 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Hi |
| 01:26.43 | g1powermac_PB | hey RobotGuy |
| 01:28.35 | g1powermac_PB | got a $100 check from google the other day and wants to spend it :-) |
| 01:29.24 | g1powermac_PB | it was from an old adsense account I have with google |
| 01:30.53 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: I wish I got checks like that. |
| 01:31.31 | RobotGuy | Get some stuff from SFE. :) |
| 01:31.38 | g1powermac_PB | yea, it was totally out of the blue |
| 01:31.48 | g1powermac_PB | I had the adsense account for like four years |
| 01:32.04 | g1powermac_PB | it finally reached $100 and then they cut the check :-) |
| 01:32.11 | RobotGuy | Cool |
| 01:33.32 | RobotGuy | I got $100 once from a company I worked for because I automated myself out of a job. |
| 01:34.02 | g1powermac_PB | ahh, lovely |
| 01:34.03 | RobotGuy | Rather, I automated my job such that it was no longer any challenge and I lost interested and wanted to advance. |
| 01:34.28 | g1powermac_PB | ahh |
| 01:34.59 | RobotGuy | That's when I started having the real bad problems, even though I was not diagnosed until 2 years later. |
| 01:35.23 | g1powermac_PB | ahh |
| 01:36.02 | RobotGuy | I spent the last part of 1998, all of 1999, and the first part of 2000 homeless. |
| 01:37.11 | g1powermac_PB | ouch |
| 01:38.01 | g1powermac_PB | 's entire family spent a few years kinda homeless |
| 01:38.33 | g1powermac_PB | back about five years ago we bought a brand new and the builder had screwed it up |
| 01:38.42 | g1powermac_PB | basically making it unlivable |
| 01:38.49 | RobotGuy | That sucks |
| 01:39.10 | RobotGuy | sighs |
| 01:39.40 | g1powermac_PB | so we lived at my grandmother's house for a few years |
| 01:40.15 | g1powermac_PB | which was also built by the same builder and just enough less screwed than ours to let us live in it |
| 01:42.25 | g1powermac_PB | of course we went through the whole litigation thing which never really panned out |
| 01:42.28 | RobotGuy | I demoed a potential new power chair today - took it out for a short ride. |
| 01:43.01 | g1powermac_PB | you need alot of money to sue |
| 01:43.11 | RobotGuy | It's not the one I feel I really need, but it would do if I have to settle for less. |
| 01:43.30 | RobotGuy | It's about who has the most money when litigating. |
| 01:44.25 | RobotGuy | It's -always- about money, not really justice. |
| 01:44.31 | g1powermac_PB | yup |
| 01:44.57 | RobotGuy | It seems to be that way with pretty much anything these days. |
| 01:44.58 | g1powermac_PB | though in this case, you need a substantial amount of money just to get started |
| 01:46.01 | RobotGuy | I'm having a lot of trouble getting KDE built for Gentoo. |
| 01:49.36 | RobotGuy | I'd really like to get out of this low income state I am in, so I could have some chance of catching a nice lady. |
| 01:49.53 | g1powermac_PB | hmm |
| 01:54.43 | g1powermac_PB | hmmm, maybe I should get a cool commodore 64 |
| 01:58.58 | agaffney | RobotGuy: I caught a nice lady when I was low income and now I'm much higher income :P |
| 01:59.13 | agaffney | RobotGuy: kde 3.x or 4.x? |
| 01:59.24 | RobotGuy | 3.5.9 |
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| 02:33.08 | RobotGuy | returns |
| 02:34.11 | RobotGuy | agaffney: Lucky ducky. |
| 02:34.40 | RobotGuy | People usually guess me to be 10 or more years younger than I am. |
| 02:35.57 | RobotGuy | I have a database, web framework, web server, IRC bot, all on my Hammer now. |
| 02:36.33 | RobotGuy | SqLite, DJango, Cherokee, Phenny. DJango and Phenny are written in Python. |
| 02:44.13 | RobotGuy | Oh, I would LOVE to get my hands on one of these: http://www.phytec.com/products/sbc/ARM-XScale/phyCORE-ARM11-i.MX31.html |
| 02:55.38 | chouimat | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:55.43 | chouimat | funny ^^^^^^ |
| 03:00.28 | RobotGuy | chouimat: Hi |
| 03:41.59 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-80-20.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 03:53.09 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Greetings |
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| 04:08.02 | chouimat | prpplague: http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/11/america/11mccain.php |
| 04:16.52 | rektide | arm dev kits are so expensive |
| 04:25.08 | RobotGuy | The Hammer Kit is not so expensive as others. |
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| 04:41.36 | rektide | i will avoid wrath of channel by not suggesting non-arm dev kits of awesomeness that cost way less |
| 04:46.46 | wmat | what do you consider expensive? |
| 04:47.19 | rektide | $900 |
| 04:47.42 | rektide | but honestly most of these kits i see no real reason they'd be over $500 |
| 04:48.09 | rektide | (but thats mostly a reflection of hardware price) |
| 04:48.50 | wmat | $900 is still kind of cheap. Most are not targetted at hobbyists. |
| 04:49.09 | wmat | some SH devkits are >10K, for example |
| 04:49.24 | RobotGuy | You can get a complete PhyTec kit for the i.MX31 for $879.00 |
| 04:50.05 | wmat | luminary micro is typically cheaper as well |
| 04:50.07 | RobotGuy | rektide: Limited production runs keep the costs higher. |
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| 04:50.54 | RobotGuy | There is no reason the SH kits need to be that expensive. |
| 04:51.08 | RobotGuy | Assuming you are referring to the Renesas SH series. |
| 04:51.31 | wmat | i was |
| 04:51.41 | RobotGuy | I think Luminary Micro is all ARM7 still. |
| 04:52.40 | rektide | ironically enough |
| 04:52.57 | rektide | i strongly believe PCIe will lead to a rapid uptake of embedded use by hobbyists |
| 04:53.20 | RobotGuy | rektide: For x86 units, that is probably true. |
| 04:53.27 | rektide | x86 is a mess |
| 04:53.36 | rektide | x86 will never be a hobbyist computer |
| 04:53.58 | rektide | well, i say that because of the continual failure of x86 to deliver SoC |
| 04:54.11 | rektide | its possible x86 does away with the north bridge, i just cant imagine it |
| 04:54.20 | RobotGuy | x86 wouldn't be so bad, interfacing with ARM9/ARM7 processors to do the real work. |
| 04:54.44 | RobotGuy | rektide: x86 was never meant to be an SoC. |
| 04:55.19 | rektide | SoC is, in my mind, absolutely a requirement for to serious acceptance in both hobby and pro embedded space |
| 04:55.27 | rektide | that atom processor for instance is a joke |
| 04:55.32 | RobotGuy | rektide: I agree there. |
| 04:55.42 | RobotGuy | I haven't looked at the Atom. |
| 04:55.45 | rektide | yes the cpu may take 1.5w under load but the chipset takes 10w minimum |
| 04:56.02 | rektide | and its insanely complicated to wire up |
| 04:56.15 | RobotGuy | I |
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| 04:57.33 | RobotGuy | I've crammed an SQL database, Python, web framework (DJango), and a web server (Cherokee), plus some other stuff into Hammer's 16 MB of Flash. I still need two more packages to finish what I need to connect everything. |
| 04:58.07 | rektide | i'm compiling openwrt for my wifi routers as we speak |
| 04:58.12 | RobotGuy | The database is SQLite. |
| 04:58.30 | RobotGuy | Which routers? Full OpenWRT? |
| 04:58.37 | rektide | Netgear WGT634U |
| 04:58.46 | rektide | fresh off trunk |
| 04:59.14 | rektide | unfortunatel the linux laptop i compile on is dirt slow and i opt for the "compile all packages by default" |
| 04:59.31 | rektide | who knows if i'll need to run postgres on a 200mhz cpu with 16mb of ram? |
| 04:59.37 | rektide | err 32mb ram |
| 05:00.13 | RobotGuy | Hammer has 32 MB Ram/16 MB Flash |
| 05:00.22 | rektide | what CPU is it? |
| 05:00.31 | RobotGuy | Samsung S3C2410A |
| 05:01.19 | rektide | if i had faith in ARM moving to becoming a real cpu i'd totally hit that |
| 05:01.35 | rektide | but i dont forsee gigabit ethernet or pcie in arms future |
| 05:01.43 | RobotGuy | What makes ARM not a real CPU? |
| 05:02.12 | RobotGuy | Take a look at Freescale's i.MX31 |
| 05:02.16 | rektide | lack of standard interfaces |
| 05:02.23 | rektide | gigabit & pcie |
| 05:02.30 | RobotGuy | Or TI's OMAP 3430 |
| 05:02.35 | rektide | i have drooled over i.MX31 quite a few times |
| 05:02.42 | RobotGuy | Me too! |
| 05:02.46 | rektide | i try to avoid looking at TI's products as they dont seem to be available in small quantities |
| 05:03.00 | RobotGuy | Not the OMAPs |
| 05:03.08 | RobotGuy | Or DaVincis |
| 05:03.11 | rektide | and their dev kits at least used to be insanely expensive and not available without blood pacts with lucifer |
| 05:03.18 | rektide | really? thats a pleasant change to hear |
| 05:03.38 | rektide | DaVinci would be fun; i'd like having onboard dsps to play with |
| 05:03.47 | RobotGuy | Take a look at the BeagleBoard |
| 05:03.52 | rektide | its not out yet |
| 05:04.15 | rektide | still just a glimmer in some mad embedded freaks eye. a wonderful glimmer yes but i cant count on it |
| 05:04.19 | RobotGuy | rektide: Close though. The rev C board should be good. |
| 05:04.33 | rektide | yeah i've been watching the rev's tick |
| 05:04.38 | rektide | good luck with your usb this time |
| 05:04.38 | RobotGuy | There is the AVR32 also. |
| 05:04.56 | RobotGuy | I'm not having a good time with USB right now. |
| 05:04.58 | rektide | again none of these architectures interface with the the standard computer bus's thoug |
| 05:05.45 | RobotGuy | rektide: They are not designed to or meant to interface to those buses. Use an FPGA if you want that sort of power connected to an SoC. |
| 05:06.12 | rektide | i'd go arm for really low power portable systems, but i'd rather get a 1-2w max-draw PPC with pcie and gigabit SoC for most computing needs |
| 05:06.42 | rektide | at least until the first rev's of ATI's opengl core IP start showing up in ARM |
| 05:06.45 | rektide | then i might reconsider |
| 05:07.08 | rektide | i just dont see why a cpu would neglect having a high speed peripherial bus |
| 05:07.14 | rektide | the cost of integration is so low |
| 05:07.36 | rektide | i just cant understand why it wouldnt be a part of any modern cpu |
| 05:07.39 | rektide | modern SoC |
| 05:15.26 | RobotGuy | rektide: I have never been fond of ATI stuff. I much prefer nVidia. |
| 05:15.45 | RobotGuy | rektide: Cost is a factor in SoCs. |
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| 05:56.15 | rektide | cost is a factor yes |
| 05:56.33 | rektide | but after you design and produce something you dont have to implement it |
| 05:56.55 | rektide | i'm not saying high speed busses need to be a part of every chip |
| 05:57.10 | rektide | i'm simply saying theres no good reason not a single ARM chip has pci-e or gigabit |
| 05:57.32 | rektide | ARM holding is doing insane damage to their property by not making it a possibility |
| 05:57.58 | rektide | as for ati v. nvidia, ati has been a part of the embedded scene for a long time. nvidia has not yet done a single embedded product. |
| 05:58.07 | rektide | for embedded graphics its PowerVR v. ATI at the moment |
| 05:58.24 | rektide | intel is using PowerVR for their next atom chipset |
| 05:58.32 | rektide | freescale is using ATI for their next ARM |
| 05:59.09 | rektide | both companies are have dozens of licenses out and we'll start seeing these chips next year |
| 05:59.30 | rektide | nvidia has one announced embedded solution and is not even attempting to license it out |
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| 07:15.41 | rektide | damnit |
| 07:15.54 | rektide | cannot get the newest nokia os2008 on my n810 |
| 07:16.02 | rektide | fucking flash util keeps dying |
| 07:17.52 | methril | yo yo |
| 07:17.57 | methril | morning |
| 07:22.38 | rektide | hola |
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| 08:21.42 | [AD]Turbo | yo all |
| 08:27.25 | methril | yo |
| 08:53.52 | solar | late nite yo attack. |
| 08:54.43 | solar | evening guy I don't really know that I've heard many good things about. |
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| 12:53.28 | ce_geek | Are we having fun yet? |
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| 13:40.28 | RobotGuy | Greetings Program! |
| 13:42.07 | prpplague | greetings earthling |
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| 13:47.17 | ce_geek | Program? |
| 13:48.17 | magnetron | RobotGuy, my Tron-sensors are detecting an unusual high activity |
| 13:49.47 | prpplague | ce_geek: a quote from the classic movie Tron |
| 13:49.56 | ce_geek | prpplague: ah |
| 13:55.07 | RobotGuy | magnetron: Oh yeah, they should be! |
| 13:55.35 | RobotGuy | changes nick to MCP |
| 13:57.07 | RobotGuy | I'm in the mood to tinker with hardware now, but I need to find my spool of #30 wire. |
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| 16:50.05 | RobotGuy | Hmmmmmmm, it looks like a Nail Board would fit into the head of my RoboQuad.. |
| 16:52.51 | pileofcrap | .oO( nail-head robot )o |
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| 17:05.52 | RobotGuy | Nail RoboQuad's head. |
| 17:07.40 | RobotGuy | In reality, the Nail Board would probably not fit though. :( |
| 17:07.41 | prpplague | the nail doesn't make much sense to be used in a mobile device like a robot |
| 17:08.10 | pileofcrap | plugable brains :p |
| 17:08.42 | pileofcrap | odd |
| 17:08.47 | RobotGuy | The Nail does have that expansion header. |
| 17:09.09 | RobotGuy | As well as full access to all the Hammer pins. |
| 17:09.34 | prpplague | but it was never intended to be powered other than via the usb port |
| 17:09.58 | RobotGuy | prpplague: True, but power can still be supplied via the USB port. |
| 17:10.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy: so you have the 4port hub and the ft2232 powered as well, extra battery drain |
| 17:10.33 | RobotGuy | It does not -have- to come from a USB connection. |
| 17:10.40 | RobotGuy | No hub. |
| 17:10.52 | RobotGuy | I mean no external hub |
| 17:11.02 | RobotGuy | Just what is on Nail. |
| 17:11.36 | prpplague | the nail has a 4-port hub and the ft2232 |
| 17:11.54 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It's all powered from the USB. |
| 17:12.03 | prpplague | ok |
| 17:12.15 | RobotGuy | That power does not -have- to come from a host USB connection, |
| 17:14.05 | prpplague | ok |
| 17:14.41 | RobotGuy | The Nail Board could be hacked to do interesting stuff it was not intended to do. |
| 17:15.30 | g1powermac | hey prpplague and RobotGuy |
| 17:15.41 | RobotGuy | I'm going to save and get another hammer module for my carrier board and another nail kit. I want to modify one Nail for breadboard use. |
| 17:15.56 | g1powermac | prpplague, was wondering if you shipped out my replacement zipit yet |
| 17:16.08 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Good morning. |
| 17:16.27 | g1powermac | need to keep the people at the store up on whats coming for me :-) |
| 17:16.45 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, I got my ancient scope in today, its so awesome looking ;-) |
| 17:17.04 | prpplague | g1powermac: yea i think it went out yesterday, i'll check |
| 17:17.09 | RobotGuy | Cool! Take some pictures. We like pictures. |
| 17:19.01 | g1powermac | oh you'll see it on This Old Gadget, it'll make a mighty fine prop :-) |
| 17:19.13 | g1powermac | prpplague, kewl |
| 17:19.28 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 17:19.47 | pileofcrap | This Old Gadget? |
| 17:19.54 | pileofcrap | http://www.thisoldgadget.net/ <--- this? |
| 17:23.58 | g1powermac | yup |
| 17:25.27 | g1powermac | this old gadget is going to be a video podcast in the theme of bob vila meeting gadget hacking |
| 17:29.27 | CosmicPenguin | till bob sues you.. :) |
| 17:29.34 | CosmicPenguin | he'll throw craftsman tools at you |
| 17:30.09 | g1powermac | hehe |
| 17:30.20 | g1powermac | will gladly collect the tools :-) |
| 17:30.34 | CosmicPenguin | "hey bob, I bet you can't hit me with that air compressor" |
| 17:30.59 | g1powermac | my camera guy should easily be able to catch all the flying stuff :-) |
| 17:31.13 | g1powermac | he's like 6' 5", huge guy :-) |
| 17:35.06 | g1powermac | and I'm like a foot shorter than him, and now quite thin |
| 17:35.24 | g1powermac | so its kinda funny to see us stand next to each other :-) |
| 18:03.15 | *** join/#edev Redhatter (n=vk4fsjl@2001:388:f000:0:0:0:0:279) |
| 18:05.43 | RobotGuy | is just barely 5' tall |
| 18:11.03 | *** join/#edev sunrunner20 (n=jamesdoe@pool-71-170-40-91.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:15.48 | pileofcrap | how are inches divided? decimal? |
| 18:17.40 | pileofcrap | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_(unit_of_length) |
| 18:18.10 | pileofcrap | odd name |
| 18:20.19 | chouimat|work | pileofcrap: http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Thou <--- this is better |
| 18:21.06 | pileofcrap | :D |
| 18:22.59 | dbtid | i don't think i quite get your question... 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32 are common, even 1/64. |
| 18:23.03 | dbtid | it just depends on what you're doing. |
| 18:23.13 | dbtid | machinists use mils all the time, too |
| 18:24.19 | pileofcrap | dbtid: yes, that was my question... thanks :) |
| 18:24.44 | pileofcrap | dbtid: for people formed under the metric system yours is _very_ strange |
| 18:24.49 | dbtid | qyou're welcome |
| 18:24.52 | dbtid | heh |
| 18:24.54 | dbtid | yeah |
| 18:25.47 | dbtid | it's KIND of logical -- dividing things in half seems more common than dividing it into 10ths (my wife and I want to share a candy bar -- how much should i give her? 5/10's is harder to measure, in 1/10ths :) |
| 18:26.01 | dbtid | now if you family has 10 people in it, you're used to it : |
| 18:26.48 | pileofcrap | ok, but why is *12 the next factor? |
| 18:26.56 | dbtid | hmm? |
| 18:27.04 | dbtid | 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32 ... |
| 18:27.14 | pileofcrap | on the other way |
| 18:27.22 | pileofcrap | inch -> foot |
| 18:27.26 | dbtid | oh, yeah, 1 inch = 1/12 foot |
| 18:27.27 | pileofcrap | the logic changes |
| 18:27.36 | dbtid | king what-was-his-name |
| 18:27.39 | dbtid | i really don't know |
| 18:27.50 | dbtid | i will agree with you, the inchs/foot thing seems very arbitrary |
| 18:28.13 | dbtid | now, if a meter had been the amount of distance light travels in 1 ns, it would have made more sense. |
| 18:28.28 | pileofcrap | :D |
| 18:28.29 | dbtid | but iirc, the meter is based on the distance between the north pole and some place in france, wasn't it? |
| 18:28.48 | dbtid | which was designed to represent 1.10,000,000 of the distance from the equator to the north pole through Paris. |
| 18:28.58 | dbtid | yeah, so, arbitrariness abounds! |
| 18:29.17 | dbtid | but that was then |
| 18:29.28 | pileofcrap | the meter can be arbitrary, but the factor is constant |
| 18:29.36 | dbtid | now it's the length of the path travelled by light in vaccum during a time of 1/299792458 seconds :) |
| 18:29.51 | pileofcrap | if the inch is divided by 12 as the feet, it would be consistent |
| 18:30.09 | dbtid | 1 inch = 1/12 foot |
| 18:30.12 | dbtid | is that what you mean? |
| 18:30.20 | pileofcrap | 1/12 inch = ?? |
| 18:30.26 | RobotGuy | 1 inch IS 1/12 of a foot/ |
| 18:30.50 | dbtid | oh |
| 18:30.51 | pileofcrap | 12 foot = ?? |
| 18:30.56 | dbtid | sorry i misunderstood |
| 18:31.01 | dbtid | 12 feet = 1 gross inch :) |
| 18:31.08 | pileofcrap | ow |
| 18:31.11 | dbtid | (12 * 12 = 144, which is a gross of something) :) |
| 18:31.29 | dbtid | 1/12 inch = nothing useful AFAIK |
| 18:31.37 | dbtid | however, perhaps machinists use it for something |
| 18:31.41 | dbtid | i never thought of that |
| 18:31.50 | dbtid | they have these metal measurements in units called 'guage' |
| 18:31.53 | dbtid | 'gague' |
| 18:31.55 | dbtid | err |
| 18:31.57 | dbtid | 'gauge' |
| 18:31.58 | dbtid | heh |
| 18:32.03 | dbtid | i never knew what they related to |
| 18:32.11 | dbtid | perhaps those are units of 1/12 of an inch? |
| 18:32.12 | dbtid | anyone/ |
| 18:32.15 | dbtid | ? |
| 18:33.05 | dbtid | did anyone see the article about the flash of light lasting 80 attoseconds? |
| 18:33.12 | dbtid | that's a very short period of time |
| 18:36.22 | prpplague | thats an eternity if you having to watch "american idol" or "dancing with the stars" |
| 18:36.34 | pileofcrap | :D |
| 18:48.41 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, ahh, you're shorter than me, 5' 5" here |
| 18:49.04 | g1powermac | though it is really rare to find someone my age at my height and shorter |
| 18:55.29 | mnemoc | was 6' 3.5" .. but shriking :( .oO( should I say 7/2" ? )o |
| 18:56.00 | *** part/#edev prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 18:56.14 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 18:56.15 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 18:56.48 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I think I would have comitted suicide way before the end of the 80 attoseconds if I was watching those 2 shows |
| 18:57.06 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: I am shorter than almost everyone. It makes it real difficult to get the interest of the ladies. |
| 18:57.14 | prpplague | chouimat|work: hehe |
| 18:58.40 | chouimat|work | RobotGuy: I remember once in Quebec City a woman told me that I wasn't interesting because I didn't have a car ... I answered too bad because you will never know and understand why I don't need a car ;) |
| 19:01.10 | RobotGuy | chouimat|work: Ummmm, OK. I don't think I wanna go there. :P |
| 19:02.00 | chouimat|work | RobotGuy: the fun thing is she didn't understand it :) |
| 19:02.34 | kergoth | would be very happy to not need a car |
| 19:11.02 | RobotGuy | chouimat|work: Of course not. Height has nothing to do with who a man is. |
| 19:11.17 | chouimat|work | true |
| 19:11.22 | RobotGuy | I have never had a driver's license. |
| 19:13.06 | prpplague | got his DL when he was 15 |
| 19:13.25 | chouimat|work | never had a DL |
| 19:16.45 | prpplague | only about 11% of the people in barbados have DL's |
| 19:18.46 | ds2 | is barbados big enough to drive around ? ;) |
| 19:19.07 | prpplague | plenty |
| 19:21.17 | RobotGuy | prpplague: The women in the USA seem to be real game players or something. |
| 19:22.05 | prpplague | notes that after his first wife he would never date an american woman |
| 19:22.17 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That bad, huh? |
| 19:22.37 | prpplague | even with all the immigration issues, i'd never ever ever go out with an american woman |
| 19:22.50 | RobotGuy | prpplague: How did you find your wife? |
| 19:23.13 | solar | mail order :) |
| 19:23.15 | prpplague | was in barbados working |
| 19:23.39 | RobotGuy | solar: Ha ha. I am on a couple dating sites, but only US women are there. |
| 19:23.50 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ah, OK. |
| 19:25.00 | ds2 | RobotGuy: have you found anything appealing on those sites? |
| 19:25.08 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I dated for 3 weeks a US woman in Quebec City ... and I'm not impressed at all :) |
| 19:27.33 | RobotGuy | ds2: Yes, I have found some appealing women, even some local to me. |
| 19:28.45 | ds2 | RobotGuy: you are doing much better then I am |
| 19:29.55 | RobotGuy | I am still having USB connection issues. :( Can't figure out what is wrong. |
| 19:39.09 | RobotGuy | ds2: However, they never write back to me. |
| 19:40.29 | RobotGuy | Is there a Samsung specific drive for USB I could be missing? |
| 19:44.57 | RobotGuy | s/drive/driver/ |
| 19:46.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the s3c24xx usb gadget and host drivers in the main kernel as of 2.6.22 work 100% |
| 19:46.20 | ds2 | is this the same problem as yesterday? have to disconnect and reconnecto for detection? |
| 19:48.05 | ds2 | sounds like a challenge to find stuff wrong with it? ;) j/k |
| 19:53.50 | solar | probably. I still fail to see the problem to use fstab |
| 19:54.58 | RobotGuy | ds2: Same ongoing problem. |
| 19:55.09 | RobotGuy | solar: I am using fstab. |
| 19:56.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am not dealing with gadget stuff right now - this seems to be a general type of problem and may affect more than just thumb drives. I have not ruled out a possible hardware problem yet. |
| 19:56.57 | solar | RobotGuy: probably scsi wait then.. |
| 19:57.05 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I guess I could transfer my Hammer module to my hammer carrier board. |
| 19:57.10 | RobotGuy | solar: That could be. |
| 19:58.10 | RobotGuy | Maybe I could manually load the scsi modules before I load usb-storage. |
| 19:59.42 | solar | there is a module parm you can pass |
| 20:00.07 | RobotGuy | I think I just found the problem - sd_mod was not being loaded as a dependency. |
| 20:00.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: this is with the nail board? |
| 20:00.15 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes |
| 20:05.03 | RobotGuy | I still have to get pysqlite and imaging built - these are show stoppers for the web interface because DJango needs them, as well as other things. |
| 20:06.06 | RobotGuy | Maybe I will try just installing them native. |
| 20:06.39 | RobotGuy | I'd prefer not to go that route unless absolutely necessary though. |
| 20:10.41 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am reflashing with a new config to load scsi_mod and sd_mod manually. |
| 20:11.37 | prpplague | okie dokie |
| 20:12.42 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I think this will fix my problem, because sd_mod was not being loaded at all. As soon as I did modprobe sd_mod, my thumb drive was recognized as /dev/sda1 and I could mount it. |
| 20:13.09 | prpplague | okie dokie |
| 20:14.37 | RobotGuy | needs to get another hammer module and nail kit. |
| 21:01.51 | RobotGuy | I just updated the thumb drive tutorial on the Wiki. |
| 21:02.37 | RobotGuy | I am still having detection problems with thumb drives - sometimes the /dev/sda1 device file does not get created and other times it does and the drive still isn't setup right. |
| 21:04.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i tested about 30+ usb devices with the nail, and never had a single one give me a problem |
| 21:05.21 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, ya, especially the ones that are taller than ya |
| 21:14.30 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, btw, I don't have a DL either |
| 21:15.17 | g1powermac | I don't personally like to drive, plus the fact that my parents of mine only have cars with manual transmissions. . .though I finally got driving a manual mostly down :-) |
| 21:17.27 | prpplague | hmm 172.9 bytes/sec transfer rate |
| 21:17.43 | mnemoc | cotton wire? |
| 21:17.59 | prpplague | sdio wifi |
| 21:18.06 | prpplague | 1.3mb/s |
| 21:18.12 | prpplague | about what i expected |
| 21:20.50 | prpplague | seems pretty consistant |
| 21:22.11 | ds2 | @#$%$%$!@#$!@#!@#!@ |
| 21:22.34 | prpplague | ds2: ?? |
| 21:22.46 | ds2 | we need more single quantity, reasonably priced, and purchaseable SDIO WiFi with Linux driver and/or docs!!!! |
| 21:22.51 | ds2 | :) |
| 21:22.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I must have some kind of a configuration issue then, because I can not get my thumb drives detected and mounted consistantly. |
| 21:23.24 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: I like tall women. :) |
| 21:23.28 | ds2 | RobotGuy: how are you loading the modules? insmod in a startup script or you relying on the autoloader/kmod stuff? |
| 21:23.40 | prpplague | ds2: yea |
| 21:23.42 | RobotGuy | ds2: Startup scripts |
| 21:24.12 | ds2 | RobotGuy: hmmm then it should be more deterministic then this... how are you determining failure to detect? |
| 21:24.32 | RobotGuy | I need some help with this because it is really starting to frustrate me. |
| 21:24.58 | RobotGuy | ds2: fdisk -l a couple times with a 2 second wait between. |
| 21:25.27 | RobotGuy | Actually fdisk -l /dev/sda1 |
| 21:26.11 | prpplague | RobotGuy: /dev/sda1 or /dev/sda ? |
| 21:26.20 | ds2 | Hmmmm, 2 comments there - AFAIK, you don't use /dev/sda1 with fdisk |
| 21:26.56 | ds2 | and you might want to see if it consistantly shows up a USB device but fails to fully enumerate...it'll be more clues as to what's happening |
| 21:27.30 | ds2 | IIRC, there nail has no hardware way of determining current draw on the USB side |
| 21:27.40 | RobotGuy | ds2: It detects the USB device, but seems to fail to enumerate |
| 21:28.00 | ds2 | that almost seems like you are pulling too much power |
| 21:28.21 | RobotGuy | It should not be that. Just one device connected - the thumb drive. |
| 21:28.35 | ds2 | is this a flash based thumb drive or a hard drive based one? |
| 21:28.42 | prpplague | RobotGuy: please pastebin your log |
| 21:28.48 | RobotGuy | Maybe I should move the hammer to my hammer carrier board and try it there. |
| 21:28.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: The boot log? |
| 21:29.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you dmesg where you say you see it not enumerate |
| 21:29.32 | CosmicPenguin | also you should see what lsusb has to say |
| 21:30.00 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: generally don't include lsusb for the buildroot builds |
| 21:30.19 | CosmicPenguin | gasps |
| 21:30.21 | CosmicPenguin | the horror |
| 21:30.23 | CosmicPenguin | the horror! |
| 21:30.30 | ds2 | is /proc/bus/usb available (aka usbfs)? |
| 21:30.39 | prpplague | s/lsub/ cat /proc/bus/usb/devices |
| 21:30.49 | CosmicPenguin | yeah, but thats lots of slashs |
| 21:30.52 | prpplague | hehe |
| 21:30.55 | CosmicPenguin | who has that kind of time? I'm a busy man... :) |
| 21:31.12 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, ahh, I personally like women about your height, 5' ish :-) |
| 21:31.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i suspect you have a procedural problem |
| 21:31.20 | ds2 | now repeat that with a busybox shell that has a broken backspace/delete ;) |
| 21:31.34 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://pastebin.ca/1069508 |
| 21:31.45 | RobotGuy | I do have usbutils and libusb installed. :) |
| 21:32.10 | ds2 | that seems like a power thing or the drive is AFU |
| 21:32.17 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I believe so also, but am not able to find where the problem is. |
| 21:32.56 | RobotGuy | CosmicPenguin: I did include them in my JFFS2 image. :) |
| 21:33.13 | ds2 | your drive is not seen at the USB level |
| 21:33.30 | RobotGuy | ds2: yes it is. |
| 21:33.39 | prpplague | RobotGuy: please reboot your nail board without the thumb drive plugged in |
| 21:33.44 | ds2 | not according to your pastebin |
| 21:33.56 | prpplague | RobotGuy: after the system boots, then plug in the thumb drive |
| 21:34.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: then pastebin your dmesg |
| 21:34.04 | ds2 | it sees the pull up/down on D+/D- and attempts to assign it an address |
| 21:34.10 | RobotGuy | ds2: Well, that time it wasn't. |
| 21:34.12 | CosmicPenguin | I see a bunch of -22s |
| 21:34.16 | CosmicPenguin | Thats never happy |
| 21:34.17 | ds2 | but the drive never accepts the address so it never really enumerates |
| 21:42.32 | ds2 | -22...that's EINVAL Hmmmm |
| 21:42.45 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'm guessing you don't have the +5v turned on to your host |
| 21:43.35 | ds2 | prpplague: hmmm so the D+/D- pull ups come from a source seperate from the Vbus? |
| 21:44.38 | prpplague | ds2: host is pull down |
| 21:45.43 | CosmicPenguin | usually -22 on the configuration stage is wokny hardware |
| 21:45.51 | ds2 | right but the device has to pull it up for a full speed device |
| 21:46.07 | ds2 | hence, I am wondering where is it getting power to do that |
| 21:46.28 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: its trying to configure the device when there is no power attached to the device |
| 21:47.05 | prpplague | ds2: the device is providing just enough resistance for the controller to think something is there |
| 21:47.09 | CosmicPenguin | That would do it |
| 21:47.16 | ds2 | hmmm interesting |
| 21:47.26 | CosmicPenguin | enough to trigger, but not enough to do anything useful |
| 21:47.38 | ds2 | http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb2.htm |
| 21:47.54 | ds2 | figure 2 is what I am expecting or am I wrong? |
| 21:48.32 | prpplague | ds2: no that is the normal configuration |
| 21:49.00 | RobotGuy | I think this is a problem with the SCSI stuff, sd)mod in particular. |
| 21:49.09 | ds2 | confused |
| 21:49.11 | prpplague | RobotGuy: please boot you nail to a shell |
| 21:50.06 | prpplague | ds2: the thumb drive is providing just enough resistance, without being powered to trigger the host controller to try and detect a device |
| 21:50.14 | prpplague | RobotGuy: let me know when you are there |
| 21:50.37 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Booting to shell now. |
| 21:50.38 | ds2 | prpplague: right but if that diagram is accurate, D+ gets pulled up by a 1.5K |
| 21:50.52 | prpplague | ds2: yes assuming that it has power |
| 21:51.14 | ds2 | prpplague: right, so I am puzzled by where it can get sufficient stray power for it |
| 21:51.33 | prpplague | ds2: its not stray power, its resistance between the d+ and d- |
| 21:51.50 | prpplague | ds2: resistance between those can generate a false presence detect |
| 21:52.27 | ds2 | Hmmm so you are saying the controller doesn't do the niave method of checking for V(D+) > Vhi && V(D-) < VLo? |
| 21:54.02 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://pastebin.ca/1069531 |
| 21:54.13 | prpplague | ds2: i can't answer that, i just know if you a take a 1k resistor across d+/d- it triggers a detect on the s3c24xx |
| 21:54.44 | prpplague | RobotGuy: do this: devmem 0x56000020 |
| 21:54.49 | ds2 | prpplague: gotcha... I will remember this. good to know what happens in the real world vs "theory" |
| 21:55.15 | RobotGuy | Memory mapped at address 0x40006000. |
| 21:55.15 | RobotGuy | Value at address 0x56000020 ((nil)): 0x40006020 |
| 21:56.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: uh somethings wrong there |
| 21:56.14 | RobotGuy | I can see that. |
| 21:56.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you sure pasted it right? |
| 21:56.21 | RobotGuy | Yes |
| 21:56.38 | prpplague | RobotGuy: where did you get your devmem app from? |
| 21:56.46 | RobotGuy | ~ # devmem 0x56000020 |
| 21:56.47 | RobotGuy | Memory mapped at address 0x40006000. |
| 21:56.47 | RobotGuy | Value at address 0x56000020 ((nil)): 0x40006020 |
| 21:57.10 | prpplague | it should look like this |
| 21:57.12 | prpplague | # devmem 0x56000020 |
| 21:57.12 | prpplague | /dev/mem opened. |
| 21:57.12 | prpplague | Memory mapped at address 0x40006000. |
| 21:57.12 | prpplague | Value at address 0x56000020 (0x40006020): 0x40000000 |
| 21:57.24 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I assume it was included when solar helped me set everything up, or it is in a gentoo emedeed package that is installed. |
| 21:57.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ok, its broken then |
| 21:57.57 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Or maybe I need to enable something in my kernel? |
| 21:58.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no, devmem should work properly |
| 21:58.12 | RobotGuy | I am running 2.6.26-rc7 with mods by solar. |
| 21:58.42 | prpplague | RobotGuy: like i said, the devmem appears to be broken |
| 21:58.56 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you running uclibc libraries? |
| 21:59.01 | RobotGuy | Hmmmm. I don't know what to do then. |
| 21:59.08 | RobotGuy | Yes, uclibc |
| 21:59.18 | ds2 | oh no uclibc |
| 21:59.51 | prpplague | http://elinux.org/upload/f/fe/Devmem |
| 22:00.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: download that and transfer it to your nail board |
| 22:01.18 | prpplague | the reason solar never had this issue was because he is using a powered hub |
| 22:01.29 | ds2 | hahah |
| 22:01.35 | CosmicPenguin | heh |
| 22:01.42 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am not able to download that binary. |
| 22:01.49 | prpplague | RobotGuy: why? |
| 22:01.51 | CosmicPenguin | yay for debug |
| 22:02.14 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It just opens as garbage in my browser. I will try Firefox. |
| 22:02.25 | ds2 | RobotGuy: does your dev system have access to the internet? |
| 22:02.32 | ds2 | if so, just wget the URL |
| 22:02.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy: http://elinux.org/upload/a/aa/Devmem2.c |
| 22:02.58 | prpplague | RobotGuy: just download the source and compile it |
| 22:08.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy: http://www.pastebin.ca/1069541 |
| 22:08.12 | prpplague | RobotGuy: just add the lines listed |
| 22:08.16 | prpplague | has to go |
| 22:08.17 | prpplague | bbiab |
| 22:12.54 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 22:12.55 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 22:16.05 | RobotGuy | I'm making that change and rebuilding my kernel now. |
| 22:22.01 | ds2 | and....? |
| 22:26.21 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-80-20.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 22:26.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy you get it fixed? |
| 22:31.47 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am reflashing Nail now |
| 22:36.01 | *** join/#edev flavioribeiro (n=flaviori@200.97.67.61) |
| 23:15.58 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Not fixed yet. Seems to only recognize the drive if I replug it, or plug it in after hammer has booted. |
| 23:20.44 | ds2 | RobotGuy: you probally need to bump the power with the devmem util |
| 23:28.08 | solar | prpplague/RobotGuy: That is included in the gentoo-busybox now |
| 23:30.42 | RobotGuy | solar: devmem? |
| 23:31.35 | mnemoc | RobotGuy: 00:06 <@prpplague> RobotGuy: http://elinux.org/upload/a/aa/Devmem2.c |
| 23:31.37 | RobotGuy | solar: What package is devmem installed from? |
| 23:32.08 | RobotGuy | mnemoc: I have that, but it is not getting installed because there is already one from a gentoo package installed. |
| 23:32.55 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Check your PM window. |
| 23:36.09 | RobotGuy | Right now, I can only get my thumb drive recognized if I replug it. |
| 23:41.19 | RobotGuy | solar and prpplague both have accounts on my system if either wants to look at anything direct. |
| 23:50.08 | *** join/#edev roxfan (n=dunno@132.52-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 23:50.21 | prpplague | solar the devmem in busybox seems to be broken |
| 23:50.36 | prpplague | solar i need to look and see whats wrong with it |
| 23:51.31 | prpplague | RobotGuy ok, that means that the power needs to be brought up just after the ohci is initialized |
| 23:51.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: How do I get that done? |
| 23:52.29 | RobotGuy | Or is that a mod that needs to be done to the ohci? |
| 23:52.30 | prpplague | goes to look at the code |
| 23:57.37 | prpplague | RobotGuy ok so, you added the two lines |
| 23:57.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy rebuilt your kernel and flash it onto the nail |
| 23:57.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy right? |
| 23:58.02 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes, I added those where specified. |
| 23:58.18 | RobotGuy | Rebuilt kernel and reflashed |
| 23:58.28 | prpplague | ok so you booted up the nail with the thumb drive plugged into the nail? |