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| 03:41.24 | ds2 | Hmmm |
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| 07:28.34 | [AD]Turbo | hola |
| 07:32.55 | csharman | hello, i have a buildroot toolchain and rootfs which seems to work ok. but some apps namely sqlite and curl throw an Illegal Instruction signal and crash. any ideas? |
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| 07:44.11 | RobotGuy | csharman: What platform are you using? |
| 07:47.42 | RobotGuy | csharman: ARM? Or other? |
| 07:49.39 | csharman | hi, yeah arm926t, uclibc 0.9.29, gcc 4.1.2 |
| 08:12.45 | RobotGuy | Not all packages will build for a given architecture, or work properly if they do seem to build. |
| 08:13.02 | RobotGuy | Which version of buildroot are you using? |
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| 15:19.58 | g1powermac | morning prpplague and RobotGuy |
| 15:20.08 | prpplague | greetings |
| 15:20.18 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Greetings Programs. :) |
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| 15:29.49 | wmat | prpplague: have you been backing up elinux.org? |
| 15:31.30 | prpplague | wmat: timr has, i've been shall we say, preoccupied |
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| 15:35.17 | wmat | prpplague: thx |
| 15:35.54 | prpplague | wmat: don't tell me its down |
| 15:38.57 | RobotGuy | It's working |
| 15:42.09 | chouimat|work | morning |
| 15:45.57 | g1powermac | mornin chouimat|work |
| 15:52.06 | wmat | prpplague: no, it's not down |
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| 17:01.37 | kergoth`work | thinks |
| 17:07.29 | prpplague | tries to assemble a complete M8050 |
| 17:09.18 | chouimat|work | prpplague: good luck ;) |
| 17:09.34 | kergoth`work | wondering if i should try to get myself into more of a software architect role at some point, maybe itd be a better fit |
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| 17:24.57 | g1powermac | prpplague, got a question for ya, I know you wanted to crack open the replacement zipit, did the replacement have all the corrections to the board? |
| 17:25.26 | prpplague | g1powermac: sorry you misunderstood, i just wanted to open the box |
| 17:25.33 | g1powermac | oh |
| 17:25.49 | g1powermac | ah well, we'll find out soon enough :-) |
| 17:31.16 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: I will have my 2nd Nail Kit tomorrow. :) Then I can mod one for solderless breadboard use. |
| 17:32.19 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you got another one? |
| 17:32.41 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes, and another Hammer module. They arrive tomorrow. |
| 17:32.51 | prpplague | ahh |
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| 17:33.05 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, cool |
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| 18:19.44 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: got a question for you, when you have time |
| 18:24.55 | RobotGuy | Is the ZipIt2 running regular Linux now? |
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| 18:25.10 | g1powermac_PB | yup |
| 18:25.13 | RobotGuy | Cool |
| 18:25.15 | g1powermac_PB | always has been running linux |
| 18:25.26 | RobotGuy | I mean like from buildroot, etc. |
| 18:25.32 | g1powermac_PB | well |
| 18:25.51 | g1powermac_PB | I've used buildroot to compile programs that then run on the standard linux already installed on the zipit |
| 18:26.44 | RobotGuy | But, can you build everything in buildroot, and the kernel the way we do it. |
| 18:26.56 | g1powermac_PB | theoretically |
| 18:27.00 | RobotGuy | Then program using openocd. |
| 18:27.00 | g1powermac_PB | it hasn't been done yet |
| 18:27.15 | g1powermac_PB | there's been work with OE |
| 18:54.35 | kergoth`work | CosmicPenguin: you know if there's a patch to add wiggle support to quilt? |
| 18:57.28 | MothaWork | prpplague: around? |
| 19:05.53 | prpplague | MothaWork: yep |
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| 19:15.35 | prpplague | darn, just burn the@$#%# out of my finger |
| 19:16.03 | g1powermac | soldering iron accident? |
| 19:16.09 | prpplague | yep |
| 19:16.19 | g1powermac | oh the joys of soldering :-) |
| 19:16.34 | prpplague | went to put some water on the sponge and ended up touching the holder |
| 19:16.39 | g1powermac | can't be as bad as the time I burnt myself on a butane powered iron. . . |
| 19:16.59 | g1powermac | my skin was seared brown, that was fun |
| 19:17.33 | MothaWork | prpplague: quick question. I know it's not your arena per se, but I presume it's come up with the handhelds stuff. Know any good overviews in terms of properly (i.e. safely) integrating Li-Ion/Li-Po batteries into devices? |
| 19:17.58 | MothaWork | and really, I can't remember the last time I actually burned myself on a soldering iron |
| 19:18.14 | MothaWork | but when I started, yeah... Heck, I have a nice scar from such an incident |
| 19:18.30 | prpplague | MothaWork: really the battery provider should give you the restrictions, based on the DoD specs |
| 19:18.39 | g1powermac | liked the time he felt molten solder :-) |
| 19:18.43 | g1powermac | that was different ;-) |
| 19:18.44 | prpplague | MothaWork: we normally contract out our battery manufacturer and certification |
| 19:19.02 | MothaWork | prpplague: hum, ok. So it really just varies with the part, and they always provide guidelines? |
| 19:19.09 | prpplague | yea |
| 19:19.16 | prpplague | MothaWork: there isn't much |
| 19:19.29 | MothaWork | do they go so far as to recommend particular charge controllers, or is that generic enough that you just parameterize your controller and be done? |
| 19:19.41 | g1powermac | MothaWork, most of my accidents involve one of my fingers getting too close to the actual hot part of the iron when holding it |
| 19:19.42 | MothaWork | I've never dealt with Li-Ion/Li-Po before for just this reason :) |
| 19:19.52 | MothaWork | but I have a feeling it's going to come up soon |
| 19:20.08 | g1powermac | which is what happened with that butane iron |
| 19:20.10 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea, they usually recommend a charger circuit, but we generally develop our own and then send it to them for approval |
| 19:20.24 | MothaWork | g1powermac: I learned a long time ago to just drop the darned part if it's too hot. You can always undo and fix the joint, but that's harder to do with your fingers :) |
| 19:20.26 | MothaWork | prpplague: ah, ok |
| 19:20.33 | g1powermac | there was no guard between the grip and the butane combustion chamber. . . |
| 19:20.57 | MothaWork | oh, and if you drop the iron, let it fall |
| 19:21.04 | MothaWork | :) |
| 19:21.23 | g1powermac | there's still a burnt fingerprint on the thing. . . |
| 19:21.23 | prpplague | MothaWork: needing a circuit for li-ion? |
| 19:22.31 | g1powermac | has burnt himself way too many times with way too many different things. . . |
| 19:23.11 | g1powermac | soldering irons, toaster oven elements, hot glue guns. . . |
| 19:23.26 | g1powermac | hot glue is by far the worst though |
| 19:24.04 | g1powermac | especially when the stuff drips on you and you start frantically start spreading the hot glue all over yourself. . . |
| 19:24.52 | prpplague | MothaWork: http://www.elinux.org/Lithium_Ion_Charger |
| 19:27.08 | MothaWork | prpplague: don't need one at this time, but there's a potential project coming up that is very likely to need one |
| 19:28.00 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: hi |
| 19:28.01 | MothaWork | g1powermac: keep a cup of cool (but not overly cold) water handy. If you drop the glue on yourself (usually your hand), immerse it briefly to solidify the glue, then peel it off whlie it's still warm |
| 19:28.10 | MothaWork | if you do it quickly enough, it doesn't have time to burn you too badly |
| 19:28.11 | CosmicPenguin | kergoth`work: no - wern't you working on such a thing at one point? :) |
| 19:28.18 | CosmicPenguin | kergoth`work: I use it manually - its a bit of a pain but it works fine |
| 19:28.26 | g1powermac | MothaWork, great idea! |
| 19:28.28 | MothaWork | the issue with hot glue is not that it is overly hot, but that there's a lot of mass there, and it traps heat in well |
| 19:28.46 | MothaWork | you don't have to remove it immediately, but just quickly enough to minimize damage |
| 19:28.58 | MothaWork | then I run cool tap water over the burn |
| 19:29.03 | MothaWork | normally no lasting effects |
| 19:29.09 | g1powermac | well, this old hot glue gun I used in the past is really hot |
| 19:29.16 | MothaWork | the one we have at work is, too |
| 19:29.24 | g1powermac | the thing was like 20 years old |
| 19:29.24 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hey, got a peripheral |
| 19:29.24 | MothaWork | high temp super sticky glue |
| 19:29.28 | g1powermac | yup |
| 19:29.34 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: that has a serial port that talks to the SoC |
| 19:29.36 | g1powermac | great stuff, till you get it on you :-) |
| 19:29.40 | MothaWork | yes |
| 19:29.51 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: but it also has 2 inputs, and 2 outputs |
| 19:29.55 | MothaWork | on the upside, it's hot enough and solidifies at a high enough temp, that the cool water trick is pretty effective |
| 19:29.58 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: gpios |
| 19:30.11 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: that control the operations |
| 19:30.32 | g1powermac | still remembers using that hot glue gun on a thing that was above my head. . .that was not a good idea |
| 19:30.35 | MothaWork | prpplague: thanks for the link. That controller looks very integrated, which is nice in portable apps for board space reasons |
| 19:30.41 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i.e. when OUTPUT-A goes high some data is presented on the uart |
| 19:30.48 | prpplague | MothaWork: yep |
| 19:30.49 | g1powermac | the stuff dripped down onto my hand |
| 19:30.58 | g1powermac | it went everywhere |
| 19:31.07 | MothaWork | prpplague: and I see you guys use OrCAD :) |
| 19:31.17 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: so the question is, would you use the generic uart drive plus a seperate driver for the gpio controls |
| 19:31.26 | CosmicPenguin | hmmm |
| 19:31.33 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: or would you combine them into a seperate driver from the uart? |
| 19:31.34 | MothaWork | will BRB |
| 19:31.43 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea at work |
| 19:31.45 | MothaWork | have to hop onto wireless, which involves a local IP change |
| 19:32.03 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: what would the gpio controls look like from the user side? |
| 19:32.44 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: really all the user would see is the uart data |
| 19:33.55 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: user wouldn't have access to the gpio controls |
| 19:35.39 | CosmicPenguin | who would? |
| 19:37.14 | prpplague | the operations would be triggered by other events such as low battery or suspend |
| 19:39.21 | CosmicPenguin | so the kernel would trigger them? |
| 19:41.14 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea |
| 19:41.33 | CosmicPenguin | I would go seperate |
| 19:42.17 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: okie dokie, thats what i was leaning towards, that way i don't have to duplicate the uart stuff |
| 19:43.28 | CosmicPenguin | are you using gpiolib? |
| 19:43.38 | CosmicPenguin | if so, then you wouldn't even need much on the GPIO side either |
| 19:53.10 | kergoth`work | CosmicPenguin: heh, yes, i had a patch for it ages ago.. may just redo it |
| 19:58.46 | CosmicPenguin | I'll help test |
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| 20:02.02 | MothaWork | or perhaps WPA won't cooperate today... |
| 20:04.29 | kergoth`work | CosmicPenguin: the only problem i ever had with wiggle was when the patch adds an entire new function, its possible for it to end up adding the function even if its already been added, doesnt always detect the 'already aplpied' there |
| 20:05.29 | CosmicPenguin | yes, I've seen that |
| 20:05.43 | CosmicPenguin | but heck, I can make regular patch do that too sometimes |
| 20:05.57 | CosmicPenguin | so I wonder who is to blame in that case |
| 20:06.45 | kergoth`work | patch wont do it as long as there's enough context on each end |
| 20:06.52 | kergoth`work | wiggle still will in that case, at times |
| 20:06.59 | kergoth`work | if the context is only blank lines... |
| 20:07.04 | kergoth`work | itll find a place to shove it :P |
| 20:08.23 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: no, not using gpiolib atm |
| 20:29.05 | ds2 | anyone got a reliable 1.8V to 3.3V transceiver type part they would recommend? |
| 20:32.16 | MothaWork | ds2: what application? |
| 20:32.34 | MothaWork | one-way shifting is pretty easy, but trying to do some of the two-way busses requires some effort |
| 20:33.23 | ds2 | MothaWork: trying to connect 2 boards with a UARTs. one is a 1.8V I/O; the other is a 3.3V I/O. Looking for a single chip to do it; otherwise, 2 MAX-232 type things back to back |
| 20:33.44 | ds2 | just need it to go both ways but each line is unidirectional |
| 20:33.52 | MothaWork | oh, so you want to translate both up and down with the same part? |
| 20:34.08 | ds2 | yep |
| 20:34.26 | MothaWork | I'd say you're looking at dedicated level shifters, then |
| 20:34.52 | ds2 | right. don't think any 74nnnnXXX chip qualifies |
| 20:35.15 | ds2 | and ideally, it should be a SOT-223 type part ;) but this is not a requirement |
| 20:36.08 | MothaWork | most of the stuff of that nature seems to be marketed for the "tiny" market |
| 20:36.10 | MothaWork | i.e. you get a DFN |
| 20:36.52 | ds2 | yeah... maybe I should look into discretes then |
| 20:37.08 | ds2 | does a MOSFET tolerate Vgs > Vds? |
| 20:37.22 | MothaWork | well, the easiest thing may be two separate 74VHC... side-by-side |
| 20:37.34 | MothaWork | and there are MOSFETs with such tolerances, yes |
| 20:37.40 | MothaWork | that's how they usually build the level shifters :) |
| 20:37.56 | ds2 | from what I can tell, it is the protection diode that kills me |
| 20:38.12 | ds2 | okay so I can't use a vanillia MOSFET arrg |
| 20:38.40 | MothaWork | check out Fairchild and ON Semi's offerings |
| 20:38.49 | MothaWork | they both have a reasonable array of voltage translators |
| 20:38.58 | MothaWork | but like I said, you'll be looking at a lot of micro-DFNs :) |
| 20:39.02 | ds2 | the thing I don't like about the 74VHC solution is that is going to get about as complex as 2 back to '232 xceviers |
| 20:39.24 | ds2 | *nod* I like the option to sneeze at will ;) |
| 20:39.36 | MothaWork | well, you don't need the charge-pump caps for the 74VHCs |
| 20:39.52 | MothaWork | and you can usually find single gate 74 series stuff in SOT-23 size packages |
| 20:40.00 | MothaWork | which you can at least sneeze to the side around :) |
| 20:40.16 | ds2 | didn't know they have 74 series parts with single gates |
| 20:40.21 | ds2 | last I look they were quads or octals |
| 20:40.50 | MothaWork | look for 74xx1Gnnn |
| 20:40.59 | ds2 | 'k |
| 20:41.00 | MothaWork | I think ON, Fairchild, and National make them |
| 20:41.07 | MothaWork | maybe TI, as well |
| 20:41.34 | MothaWork | the single gate stuff isn't "standard" 74 series, but there seem to be some de-facto industry standards for them, at least |
| 20:41.47 | ds2 | 'k |
| 20:41.48 | MothaWork | and they tend to mirror the electrical characteristics of the corresponding 74 series |
| 20:42.18 | ds2 | for stuff like 115200 UART, can I get away with just putting in a resistor divider on the output of the 3.3V side? |
| 20:42.31 | MothaWork | you know what you could do |
| 20:42.46 | MothaWork | get a dual bipolar transistor package and use it as an open collector driver |
| 20:42.52 | MothaWork | you can often get them with integrated base resistors |
| 20:43.01 | ds2 | that's from from 1.8V to 3.3V |
| 20:43.09 | MothaWork | works the other way, too |
| 20:43.12 | ds2 | going the other way will turn on the Vbc diode |
| 20:43.20 | MothaWork | you can get them without the body drain diode :) |
| 20:43.25 | ds2 | eh? |
| 20:43.29 | MothaWork | or the input diodes |
| 20:43.44 | MothaWork | there are dualies that aren't on the same substrate and that don't have input protection diodes |
| 20:44.08 | MothaWork | so basically, they are just two raw transistors in a single package |
| 20:44.09 | ds2 | how does this not turn on the BC diode? |
| 20:44.17 | MothaWork | there is no BC diode on them |
| 20:44.29 | MothaWork | that's an input protection measure that is optionally designed in |
| 20:44.33 | ds2 | by definition, a Bipolar transistor's BC junction IS a diode |
| 20:44.45 | MothaWork | oh, heh, I see what you mean |
| 20:44.45 | ds2 | just normally reversed bias |
| 20:44.56 | ds2 | I thought about that but it failed sanity check |
| 20:44.56 | MothaWork | I know I've done this...maybe I used a FET |
| 20:45.21 | ds2 | a protection-less MOSFET might work since there should be no path to Drain |
| 20:45.39 | MothaWork | FETs are usually just rated for max Vgs and max Vds, but there is often no requirement that Vds > Vg |
| 20:45.39 | MothaWork | s |
| 20:46.07 | ds2 | Oh? hmmm thought there is traditionally a protection diode on gate to drain |
| 20:46.16 | MothaWork | on LSI stuff, yes |
| 20:46.21 | ds2 | ah |
| 20:46.27 | MothaWork | but on discretes not usually |
| 20:46.39 | MothaWork | except on special ones with ESD features, forex |
| 20:46.43 | ds2 | cool |
| 20:46.58 | MothaWork | again, check Fairchild, ON, and possibly ST |
| 20:47.01 | ds2 | PN2222 is the run of the mill SOT-23 MOSFET right? |
| 20:47.18 | MothaWork | that sounds like a BJT |
| 20:47.26 | MothaWork | or did they do something nasty like change the 2 to a P |
| 20:47.36 | ds2 | then what's the run of the mill MOSFET in SOT-23? |
| 20:47.52 | MothaWork | heh, good luck finding a part number that's the same between two manufacturers on FETs :) |
| 20:48.29 | ds2 | someone told me there is a MOSFET equivalent (in terms of generic-ness) of the 2N2222 |
| 20:49.08 | MothaWork | hum, I don't know those small signal FET lines very well |
| 20:49.30 | MothaWork | I mostly end up with esoteric needs like duals and such |
| 20:49.35 | MothaWork | so you end up having to just search everybody |
| 20:49.43 | ds2 | 'k I'll bug my RF friend...he uses them like black pepper ;) |
| 20:50.23 | MothaWork | try the ON NTJD5121N |
| 20:50.31 | MothaWork | has ESD protection, but it's done with zeners |
| 20:51.00 | ds2 | looking |
| 20:51.08 | MothaWork | ON's parametrics are good, even if you don't buy from them |
| 20:51.42 | MothaWork | I did not check Vth on that; it may be too high |
| 20:52.08 | MothaWork | that's one problem with 1.8V logic levels |
| 20:52.21 | MothaWork | you don't get some power MOSFETs turned on |
| 20:52.34 | ds2 | a max of 2.5V wouldn't work with 1.8V logic :( let me look for another one |
| 20:53.08 | MothaWork | you could pair a FET with a bipolar |
| 20:53.16 | MothaWork | go down using the FET and go up using a bipolar |
| 20:53.29 | MothaWork | in fact, there are devices with those two in a single package out there |
| 20:53.37 | ds2 | I like that idea |
| 20:53.51 | ds2 | it'll just cost me a base resistor |
| 20:54.00 | MothaWork | find one with an integrated base resistor :) |
| 20:54.07 | ds2 | hahah |
| 20:54.25 | ds2 | trying not to be too picky as I am hopping to buy it locally |
| 20:54.35 | ds2 | otherwise, I need to find $25 of digikey stuff |
| 20:55.08 | MothaWork | mouser has no minimum order |
| 20:55.20 | MothaWork | and they'll first class mail things to you on the cheap |
| 20:56.38 | ds2 | Oh? |
| 20:56.52 | ds2 | I have to remember that. |
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