| 01:20.36 | *** join/#edev flavioribeiro (n=flaviori@200.97.67.61) |
| 01:51.22 | *** join/#edev prpplague^2 (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-80-20.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 02:05.49 | prpplague | http://www.jointech.com.hk/jl7100.html |
| 02:13.54 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 02:14.16 | prpplague | i'd love to get my hands on one of those |
| 02:14.29 | prpplague | its got to be s3c2440 based |
| 02:17.43 | prpplague | yep, its about 99% certain its s3c2440 based - http://www.jointech.com.hk/jtk2440_faq.html |
| 02:23.06 | RobotGuy | They have the s3c2440 in other products. |
| 02:23.28 | prpplague | yea |
| 02:23.40 | prpplague | http://www.jointech.com.hk/jl7100.html |
| 02:23.45 | RobotGuy | That doesn't necessarily mean anything though. |
| 02:25.19 | prpplague | RobotGuy well it says the chipset is samsung, its 400mhz and they have 4 other products based on s3c2440 |
| 02:25.38 | RobotGuy | I'd say that's an s3c2440 then. |
| 02:26.22 | RobotGuy | I wonder what their "builtin" WiFi consists of. |
| 02:26.26 | prpplague | can't find anyone that is actually selling it |
| 02:26.47 | prpplague | i didn't see wifi listed |
| 02:26.50 | prpplague | looks |
| 02:26.51 | RobotGuy | Prpbably not in the USA, at least not yet. |
| 02:26.59 | RobotGuy | Main page, it's listed. |
| 02:27.11 | prpplague | ahh listed as optional |
| 02:27.22 | prpplague | my guess is an internal usb stick |
| 02:28.01 | prpplague | i'd love to get one of those |
| 02:29.00 | prpplague | man people are really trashing it in the news |
| 02:29.16 | prpplague | when they hear 64/64 they are still thinking x86 requirements |
| 02:30.37 | prpplague | "http://www.jointech.com.hk/images/products/jl7100_brochure_big.jpg" |
| 02:30.39 | prpplague | oops |
| 02:30.45 | prpplague | "The only catch is that it is currently only selling in Hong Kong" |
| 02:31.06 | RobotGuy | Know anyone over there? |
| 02:31.47 | prpplague | nope |
| 02:32.24 | RobotGuy | I wish we could make stuff like that over here for that end price. |
| 02:33.14 | prpplague | they can, they just don't |
| 02:33.35 | RobotGuy | Why don't you do it then? |
| 02:35.18 | prpplague | RobotGuy i have no money |
| 02:35.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy check out ebay Item number: 110273989646 |
| 02:38.03 | RobotGuy | I see a nice remote robot console when I look at that. Way too expensive though. |
| 02:38.31 | RobotGuy | Lack of money is always what holds me back. |
| 02:39.14 | prpplague | hehe |
| 02:39.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy i wonder where he got that |
| 02:39.36 | prpplague | RobotGuy says its new |
| 02:39.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy we only started shipping those about 4 months ago |
| 02:40.13 | RobotGuy | Stuff always gets out before it should. |
| 02:40.53 | prpplague | as long as someone is buying, i don't care |
| 02:41.16 | prpplague | just surprised, i figured it would be atleast 6 months before one showed up on ebay |
| 02:42.02 | RobotGuy | It will be happening quicker and quicker as time goes on. New products have a shorter and shorter "newness" window all the time. |
| 02:42.51 | prpplague | like i said, doesn't bother me, as long as they are buying, that means i have a paycheck |
| 02:42.55 | RobotGuy | We have been creating a society with a shorter and shorter attention span all the time. |
| 02:44.03 | RobotGuy | My libtool is somehow causing my toolchain build to crap out. |
| 02:44.11 | prpplague | doh |
| 02:44.25 | prpplague | i wonder if that guy is one of our distributors |
| 02:45.34 | prpplague | wow someone has 3 m7100's |
| 02:47.40 | RobotGuy | libtool is not finding a command it seems to need, but I don't know what it's expecting. |
| 02:48.32 | prpplague | pastebin your error log and i'll have a quick look |
| 02:48.38 | prpplague | you are using the default buildroot? |
| 02:49.51 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/1085876 |
| 02:49.59 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes |
| 02:51.34 | prpplague | wow thats really f'd |
| 02:51.52 | prpplague | RobotGuy you are using the default buildroot with the default config file? |
| 02:52.10 | RobotGuy | No, not the default config file. |
| 02:53.09 | prpplague | what distro? |
| 02:53.35 | RobotGuy | Gentoo |
| 02:54.19 | prpplague | and you have /bin/sh on the system? |
| 02:55.15 | RobotGuy | sh -> bash |
| 02:56.00 | prpplague | yea, looks like the interpretaion of the shell command is failing |
| 02:56.06 | RobotGuy | I just unpacked a new default buildroot and am trying another build. I just turned on the C++ options, nothing else. |
| 02:56.46 | prpplague | yea, that turns on mpfr |
| 02:57.00 | prpplague | you changed the mpfr version to something new right? |
| 02:57.50 | RobotGuy | I have changed so many things in buildroot, I can't remember. I think I might have upgraded mpfr versions. |
| 02:58.25 | prpplague | RobotGuy yea, try going back to the tested 2.2.1 |
| 02:58.42 | prpplague | RobotGuy changing all that stuff is what gets you into trouble |
| 02:59.03 | RobotGuy | You would have me not experiment then. |
| 02:59.10 | RobotGuy | That's not me. |
| 02:59.14 | prpplague | RobotGuy experimentation is fine |
| 02:59.31 | prpplague | RobotGuy but you have to use the scientific method or else you are just throwing darts in the dark |
| 02:59.55 | RobotGuy | You assume I change many things at once. I don't. |
| 03:00.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy anyway , try going back to the mpfr thats been tested with buildroot |
| 03:00.32 | prpplague | 2.2.1 |
| 03:01.01 | RobotGuy | I am trying the original 0108 buildroot without changes now. |
| 03:01.01 | prpplague | RobotGuy just edit the mpfr.mk, change the version number, and restart buildroot with make |
| 03:01.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That's all I have done. Changed version numbers. |
| 03:01.46 | prpplague | yea, but the new version hasn't been tested |
| 03:01.54 | prpplague | easiest would be to go to the one that is tested |
| 03:02.27 | RobotGuy | I just said I am starting from scratch with no changes. I started that before you even mentioned it. |
| 03:02.56 | prpplague | okie dokie |
| 03:03.47 | RobotGuy | I'm almost at the point where I just want to get an x86 board and plop it on W.A.L.T.E.R. |
| 03:04.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy how is that any better? |
| 03:04.29 | RobotGuy | I didn't say it would be better. It would be easier though. |
| 03:05.09 | RobotGuy | Hardware wise, I don't think it would be better at all. |
| 03:05.09 | prpplague | still gotta build the libs, still gotta do a rootfs, still gotta do a kernel |
| 03:05.27 | RobotGuy | I'd have to abstract to a higher level I don't want to go to. |
| 03:06.06 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I was thinking more of running a full Linux distro on W.A.L.T.E.R. instead of embedded. |
| 03:06.39 | RobotGuy | I can do kernels, no problem. I've just been away from that for awhile until this year, but got it now. |
| 03:08.31 | RobotGuy | I was building Linux kernels before v1.0 |
| 03:12.34 | prpplague | doing embedded dev isn't for everyone |
| 03:12.58 | RobotGuy | BTW, the only time I look for later versions of a package is when something consistantly won't build and I can't get a fix or fix it myself. |
| 03:13.20 | prpplague | mpfr 2.2.1 has been tested and builds properly |
| 03:13.31 | RobotGuy | All I want to do is work on my robot. |
| 03:13.41 | prpplague | you've had buildroot working several times |
| 03:15.27 | RobotGuy | Buildroot does not give me all the software I want, in several instances, althought I am arriving at a set of stuff that works for me with Gentoo Embedded now. Other stuff just isn't available in buildroot. |
| 03:15.59 | prpplague | buildroot is really only intended to generate the toolchain and get a base rootfs done |
| 03:16.12 | prpplague | once you have the toolchain, you can cross compile any app you want |
| 03:16.44 | RobotGuy | Cross compiling python stuff that has C modules is not quite that easy. |
| 03:17.18 | prpplague | doesn't buildroot have python? |
| 03:17.23 | RobotGuy | Wouldn't I first have to create a buildroot package for the software I want? |
| 03:17.28 | RobotGuy | Python add ons. |
| 03:18.24 | RobotGuy | Like pysqlite and imaging, for instance, required by DJango (also not in buildroot, but can be installed natively). |
| 03:18.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy no, once you have your toolchain you can compile whatever you want |
| 03:19.19 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes, if I want to do it natively, that is true, but that brings up other problems. No place to store the native toolchain. |
| 03:19.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy what are you using python for? |
| 03:19.51 | RobotGuy | All of my robot software. |
| 03:20.17 | prpplague | why python? |
| 03:21.22 | RobotGuy | 1) All of the software I need is available for Python. 2) I Python pretty well already. 3) I don't want to invest in a new language. |
| 03:21.41 | prpplague | what software is already in python? |
| 03:22.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy buildroot looks to build all of python |
| 03:22.35 | RobotGuy | DJango (web framework), Phenny (IRC bot), PySQLite (interface to SQLite), etc. |
| 03:22.52 | RobotGuy | Also CherryPy (another web framework). |
| 03:22.57 | prpplague | you need all of those for a robot? |
| 03:23.05 | prpplague | why so many web frameworks? |
| 03:23.46 | RobotGuy | What is your definition of a robot? No, I just need one framework. I just haven't chosen which one yet. CherryPy is self contained. DJango is not. |
| 03:24.25 | prpplague | RobotGuy walter looks like a robot to me |
| 03:24.37 | RobotGuy | I've been tinkering with CherryPy and am finding it is rather nice, even though not as well documented as DJango. However, DJango is much larger. |
| 03:24.53 | prpplague | but what do you use them for on your bot? |
| 03:24.57 | RobotGuy | W.A.L.T.E.R. will have both a full web and IRC interface when I am done. |
| 03:25.30 | prpplague | whats wrong with the httpd's that are part of buildroot? |
| 03:25.39 | prpplague | what does it need an irc interface for? |
| 03:26.12 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have come to like lighttpd, and it can be connected to either CherryPy or DJango as far as I can tell. |
| 03:26.32 | prpplague | i still understand what you need the web framework for |
| 03:26.39 | prpplague | or the irc interface |
| 03:27.16 | RobotGuy | W.A.L.T.E.R. doesn't NEED a web or IRC interface, but if I don't do something relatively new or at least differently, there is no point in even working on W.A.L.T.E.R. Besides, I am interested in doing it. |
| 03:27.46 | RobotGuy | I want to be able to have W.A.L.T.E.R. on the internet and accessible. |
| 03:28.12 | prpplague | doesn't understand but that's ok |
| 03:28.20 | prpplague | RobotGuy good luck |
| 03:28.24 | RobotGuy | What is it you do not understand? |
| 03:28.25 | prpplague | heads to bed |
| 03:28.28 | RobotGuy | G'Night |
| 03:28.45 | RobotGuy | It's OK, nobody really understands. |
| 03:28.53 | RobotGuy | I'm used to that. |
| 03:29.06 | RobotGuy | sighs |
| 03:30.06 | RobotGuy | I think I will adopt the theme of this year's OSCON. |
| 03:32.13 | RobotGuy | And add part of a slogan from elsewhere. |
| 03:33.42 | ds2 | Hmmm |
| 03:40.27 | RobotGuy | Why can't this stuff just be fun? |
| 03:40.51 | RobotGuy | Never mind, I already know the answer. |
| 03:41.44 | agaffney | because you're doing it wrong :P |
| 03:42.09 | agaffney | if your hobby project isn't fun, you're doing something wrong ;) |
| 03:43.22 | RobotGuy | It's not being able to get to the point where I can actually work on the robot that is not fun. |
| 03:43.50 | agaffney | heh |
| 03:46.07 | RobotGuy | It was extremely fun when I was just dealing with a single processor that had only 13 kB program space and no OS. |
| 03:46.40 | RobotGuy | Then I had to find a faster and more capable processor. |
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| 04:00.12 | RobotGuy | Check this out: http://www.chumby.com/ |
| 04:06.56 | ds2 | it is fun |
| 04:07.38 | RobotGuy | It's got a TI processor though, but it still looks hackable. |
| 04:07.59 | ds2 | *shrug* I don't do flash |
| 04:08.07 | ds2 | so unless there is a .mpg or .ogg file... |
| 04:08.26 | ds2 | or even a .flv file |
| 04:10.13 | RobotGuy | Are you talking about Chumby or something else. |
| 04:15.13 | ds2 | chumby |
| 04:16.37 | RobotGuy | What does flash have to do with mpg, ogg, or flv files? |
| 04:19.06 | RobotGuy | I saw them, but didn't get to play with one, at OSCON. |
| 04:19.26 | ds2 | who are "they"? |
| 04:20.01 | ds2 | Hmmmm |
| 04:23.51 | RobotGuy | Not who, what. The Chumby. |
| 04:24.17 | ds2 | if it would show what it is... |
| 04:24.23 | ds2 | damn site is javascript and flash infested |
| 04:25.11 | RobotGuy | I am starting to strongly dislike the spread of flash to websites. |
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| 06:27.57 | methril | morning |
| 06:59.28 | harpal | Hey i am making on embedded product in that I have to install linux, Now can any one tell me which Linux distro I should prefer to use? |
| 07:00.01 | methril | well prefer is allways personal :D |
| 07:02.26 | harpal | methril: but what you use? |
| 07:02.53 | methril | depends on the device |
| 07:03.05 | methril | poky is nice with the supported one |
| 07:03.14 | methril | angstrom has a really good support |
| 07:03.32 | methril | i didn't check debian neither gentoo embedded, |
| 07:03.35 | methril | you have a lot |
| 07:04.56 | harpal | methril: ok, I have tried debian but problem is that its package is precompiled installed so whatever feature I want that is not there |
| 07:05.37 | methril | then change to angstrom |
| 07:05.37 | methril | if your device is not supported |
| 07:05.37 | methril | see openembedded |
| 07:05.45 | methril | and in gentoo you have to compile it |
| 07:06.12 | methril | but it depends the of the kind of device |
| 07:06.46 | methril | if your device is a network device, then nslu or openwrt (for wirelless devices) could fit your needs better |
| 07:07.31 | harpal | methril: Yes my device is network device. I want to make one system in whcich I have Firewall and All VPN |
| 07:07.56 | methril | then maybe nslu fits better your needs |
| 07:09.50 | methril | http://www.nslu2-linux.org |
| 07:09.59 | ds2 | build it from the ground up |
| 07:10.08 | ds2 | or suffer ethernal bloat |
| 07:11.00 | methril | it's other option :) |
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| 07:15.51 | RobotGuy | Mirell: Hi |
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| 07:18.24 | methril | hi RobotGuy |
| 07:18.37 | RobotGuy | methril: Hello |
| 07:18.44 | RobotGuy | How are you? |
| 07:18.54 | methril | i'm fine, and you? |
| 07:19.01 | methril | a litle bit tired, but ine |
| 07:19.07 | RobotGuy | I'm OK. Not the best, but I am OK. |
| 07:19.07 | methril | s/ine/fine |
| 07:19.26 | methril | how is WALTER? |
| 07:19.27 | methril | :) |
| 07:22.43 | harpal | methril: okay, I am just checking nslu. |
| 07:23.14 | methril | it's an option, but most of the embedded devices are made from scratch |
| 07:23.20 | harpal | Hey in nslu linux Can I upgrade its packages? like package manager |
| 07:23.56 | harpal | methril: I have build my own generic linux but I am confused that should I use that or go for some distro |
| 07:24.11 | harpal | My basic Linux fits in to less than 10 MB |
| 07:24.33 | methril | you have a package system (i don't remember if nslu uses it) |
| 07:25.09 | methril | it's like deb packages, and it's called ipk, but now openmoko guys are mantaining it as another name opkg |
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| 07:35.16 | RobotGuy | W.A.L.T.E.R. is not yet operational. I am a bit behind where I had hoped to be now. |
| 07:36.44 | methril | well, do you have some deadline? |
| 07:38.55 | [AD]Turbo | hi there |
| 07:44.13 | RobotGuy | Well, actually, I was hoping to have him operational for OSCON, but am shooting for the Linux Plumber's Converence in September now. |
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| 07:53.26 | harpal | methril: Hey in Router and Switch how they make update files? any idea? |
| 07:54.27 | methril | you ssh into int (it has assigned a ip) and opkg update and opkg <package_to_install> |
| 08:02.22 | harpal | methril: ok |
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| 08:04.13 | RobotGuy | That was interesting. |
| 08:05.03 | RobotGuy | Hrrrrm, I have to update my buildroot openocd scripts to use a different, and I am guessing, later version of openocd. |
| 08:05.17 | RobotGuy | Well, for a later openocd version. |
| 08:06.36 | methril | what JTAG do you have? |
| 08:06.45 | RobotGuy | Flyswatter |
| 08:07.12 | RobotGuy | Apparently the Gentoo version of OpenOCD is newer than the Hammer version. |
| 08:08.53 | RobotGuy | I'm getting: openocd.c:160 jim_command(): Syntax error |
| 08:09.05 | RobotGuy | I'll dig into it later or tomorrow, or whenever. |
| 08:11.14 | RobotGuy | Well, I am going to either try going to bed or tinkering more with web servers. I have Cherokee, Apache, and lighttpd all installed and active on this PC. :D |
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| 08:26.46 | methril | hehehe |
| 08:26.50 | methril | so many servers |
| 08:27.15 | methril | <PROTECTED> |
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| 12:06.09 | g1powermac_PB | wonders how different the driver interface is between linux and netbsd. . . |
| 12:06.58 | g1powermac_PB | got a machine yesterday that would run netbsd a bit better than linux but I could use some of the drivers that linux has |
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| 12:32.40 | phoix | i am having problems compiling buildroot, gcc stops with error 2; the problem is: checking for suffix of object files... configure: error: cannot compute suffix of object files: cannot compile. i have the buildroot-snapshot downloaded today, and am trying to compile for arm xscale.. has anyone else run into this problem? |
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| 12:42.14 | sunrunner20 | lol |
| 12:42.27 | sunrunner20 | thats the most retarted requirement for a password i've ever seen |
| 12:43.17 | phoix | hey sunrunner20 |
| 12:44.05 | sunrunner20 | puts the extra word onto the BEGINNING of the password instead of the end lol |
| 12:45.01 | sunrunner20 | idiots at school leaked all the info |
| 12:45.02 | sunrunner20 | :\ |
| 12:45.11 | phoix | i am having problems compiling buildroot, gcc stops with error 2; the problem is: checking for suffix of object files... configure: error: cannot compute suffix of object files: cannot compile. i have the buildroot-snapshot downloaded today, and am trying to compile for arm xscale. Sunrunner20: do you have any idea as to what could be the problem? |
| 12:45.30 | sunrunner20 | nope |
| 12:45.31 | sunrunner20 | but |
| 12:45.45 | sunrunner20 | its early in the morning |
| 12:45.50 | sunrunner20 | i'm ususally the first one up :) |
| 12:45.56 | phoix | ok :) |
| 12:45.59 | sunrunner20 | and the least experianced w/ buildroot :) |
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| 12:47.40 | sunrunner20 | *mutter* |
| 12:47.44 | sunrunner20 | i really must fix that |
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| 12:51.49 | methril | phoix, give more info |
| 12:57.52 | phoix | ok, here is a pastebin from /home/phoix/buildroot/toolchain_build_arm/gcc-4.3.1-initial/config.log |
| 12:57.56 | phoix | http://pastebin.com/m7d501e53 |
| 13:00.12 | phoix | i will also pastebin the commandline output |
| 13:00.30 | methril | yes, please |
| 13:00.37 | methril | i'll back in few minutes |
| 13:00.49 | phoix | ok |
| 13:02.01 | phoix | http://pastebin.com/m5704baba < console output |
| 13:39.14 | methril | phoix, it's your cross compile in the path? |
| 13:39.17 | methril | gcc? |
| 13:43.27 | phoix | ok |
| 13:43.43 | phoix | whats wrong with it? |
| 13:44.10 | phoix | should it be pointing to something like arm-linux-gcc |
| 13:44.12 | methril | it looks at (confdefs.h) like it doesn't catch the gcc version |
| 13:44.50 | methril | should looks something like that PACKAGE_BUGREPORT='uclibc' |
| 13:45.01 | methril | PACKAGE_NAME='GNU C Library' |
| 13:45.10 | phoix | ok |
| 13:45.49 | phoix | whereabouts are you looking at what i pasted? |
| 13:46.08 | methril | at the end in configs.log |
| 13:46.14 | phoix | ok.. |
| 14:03.44 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@host-66-202-71-238.har.choiceone.net) |
| 14:07.33 | *** join/#edev sunrunner20|prom (n=jamesdoe@pool-71-252-241-194.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 14:07.54 | *** join/#edev Madsy (n=madman@ti541110a340-2192.bb.online.no) |
| 14:15.03 | phoix | methril: i've decided to change to gcc-4.2.3 instead, i'm a biut of a noob at this lol, this one seems to be compiling tho only thing i've had to do additionally is set the LD_LIBRARY_PATH to the gmp and mpfr lib directories... or is that last problem i had going to affect the compile of this version aswell? |
| 14:16.17 | methril | i i don't know i never had to figth with that kind of problems :) |
| 14:17.13 | phoix | ok.. :) thanks for your help tho |
| 14:22.54 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 14:22.55 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 14:27.52 | *** join/#edev MothaWork (n=monmotha@mail.forwardengineering.com) |
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| 14:51.59 | g1powermac_PB | heya prpplague |
| 14:52.17 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: hey |
| 14:52.36 | g1powermac_PB | loves his vintage mac classic II ;-) |
| 14:52.44 | g1powermac_PB | that I got in yesterday |
| 14:53.06 | g1powermac_PB | brought back fond memories :-) |
| 14:53.37 | g1powermac_PB | but I'll be installing netbsd on it in the coming weeks |
| 14:53.58 | g1powermac_PB | I'd install linux on it, but it barely has enough resources for netbsd |
| 14:56.02 | g1powermac_PB | then I'm going to write a small app on it to control my LED sign I'm building over one of the serial ports |
| 14:56.29 | *** join/#edev phoix (n=phoix@xdslhh193.osnanet.de) |
| 15:03.04 | phoix | methril|away: the problem was that i hadn't set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to the gmp and mpfr lib directories :) |
| 15:43.16 | *** join/#edev dipro (n=Miranda@hunter.netmodule.com) |
| 15:44.08 | prpplague | g1powermac: you get your package yet? |
| 15:45.22 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: shows its out for delivery |
| 15:50.47 | g1powermac | not yet |
| 15:50.54 | g1powermac | just checked with the guys at the store |
| 15:51.24 | prpplague | g1powermac: well it shows out for delivery, let me know if you don't get it soon |
| 15:51.29 | g1powermac | alrighty |
| 15:54.02 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 15:54.07 | prpplague | i hate userspace dev |
| 15:58.36 | prpplague | hmm |
| 15:59.07 | prpplague | ok so if i echo mem to /sys/power/state, system suspends and i can wake it up with the "power button" |
| 15:59.26 | prpplague | but if i use the "power button" to start the suspend, the system hangs on resume :( |
| 16:03.53 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:09.54 | kergoth`work | morning |
| 16:12.45 | prpplague | greetings earthling |
| 16:15.16 | prpplague | debugging suspend/resume is such a pain |
| 16:16.00 | RobotGuy | changes nick to MCP |
| 16:19.57 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I got buildroot working again. |
| 16:20.14 | prpplague | RobotGuy: good deal |
| 16:20.54 | RobotGuy | I had to raise the version on fakeroot and lighttpd. |
| 16:29.49 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what did fakeroot have to do with the mpfr build? |
| 16:30.24 | RobotGuy | I am working on updating my openocd cfg and ocd files to work with the Gento version of openocd now |
| 16:30.42 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Probably nothing. No idea why it bombed before. |
| 16:35.05 | kergoth`work | prpplague: heh, yeah, i remember debugging suspend/resume issues with the Z, and with some omap boards |
| 16:35.07 | kergoth`work | messy |
| 16:37.36 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I had to bump the versions on fakeroot and lighttpd because the stock versions are no longer available. |
| 16:37.56 | RobotGuy | stock = versions in buildroot 0108 |
| 16:40.11 | prpplague | RobotGuy: they are avalable, just the path is different |
| 16:40.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK. Well, my update works, so I'm leaving it as is. |
| 16:40.41 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you download the source fresh every time? |
| 16:40.55 | RobotGuy | prpplague: No |
| 16:42.05 | prpplague | RobotGuy: if you don't download everytime, why don't you have the versions of fakeroot and lighttpd you were using? |
| 16:42.05 | solar | wonders if RobotGuy is trying buildroot cuz he managed to break his setup in a new fun and interesting way again. |
| 16:43.30 | RobotGuy | prpplague: As I said before, those versions could not be found to download. |
| 16:43.58 | prpplague | but if you don't download the source fresh everytime, you should already have them |
| 16:44.08 | RobotGuy | solar: Go to the head of the class! :D You win! :D Yes, did that. Didn't you know I am the King of Breakage? |
| 16:44.41 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I did not have the stock versions, and never did. |
| 16:45.38 | RobotGuy | solar: I need to have a working buildroot environment anyway, since that is the only environment supported by TCT at present. |
| 16:47.05 | RobotGuy | solar: I am going to adopt your openocd setup for use with buildroot. I already have the Gentoo version of OpenOCD working. I just have to get the rest ported over. |
| 16:47.24 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that doesn't make any sense, you've had buildroot up several times |
| 16:48.08 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I know that, and I updated the versions of fakeroot and lighttpd as well, as other packages, to get them to build. |
| 16:48.31 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ok, now that _everything_ works, make a backup copy of the dl dir |
| 16:48.39 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that way you never have to download it again |
| 16:48.54 | prpplague | _even_ if the version changes |
| 16:49.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have my dl dir stored outside of buildroot. It gets added to as necessary for new package versions. |
| 16:49.54 | prpplague | gives up and goes back to work |
| 16:50.55 | RobotGuy | sighs |
| 16:51.20 | RobotGuy | Is this significant and something that needs to be fixed: http://www.pastebin.ca/1086228 |
| 16:52.46 | prpplague | RobotGuy: means it wasn't able to read from the jtag properly |
| 16:53.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy: did you get your nail board ft2232 reprogrammed? |
| 16:53.43 | RobotGuy | prpplague: No, I haven't done that yet. |
| 16:55.04 | RobotGuy | The pin headers I have seem to be too large to go into my breadboard, so I haven't messed with the new Nail Board anymore yet. |
| 16:56.00 | solar | woot-off today |
| 16:57.04 | CosmicPenguin | That is a cheap ass hard drive |
| 16:58.12 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ?? |
| 16:58.29 | CosmicPenguin | on the woot-off right now |
| 16:58.34 | CosmicPenguin | lots of GBs |
| 16:58.52 | prpplague | weird deal, looks like my suspend() isn't being called untill after the resume |
| 17:02.52 | RobotGuy | Well, this day is not starting off well. |
| 17:03.21 | solar | prpplague: the cheap HD and other stuff that will be sold today in woot-off -> http://www.woot.com/ |
| 17:03.46 | prpplague | looks |
| 17:04.34 | solar | it's one of those kinda sites you want to refresh every few hrs and see what new deal is there. |
| 17:04.42 | prpplague | interesting |
| 17:04.47 | prpplague | never been there before |
| 17:05.02 | CosmicPenguin | http://woot.dswebhost.net/ is a nice watcher |
| 17:05.18 | solar | if you go to the http://www.woot.com/Blog/ you can see what products have been sold today. |
| 17:05.39 | solar | the prices are usually so dirt cheap that when you see an item that you want. You tend to say "woot" inside your head. |
| 17:06.34 | prpplague | solar: hehe, well thats assuming you have money to spend |
| 17:07.13 | kergoth`work | i'm using the woot watcher ff extension myself |
| 17:07.14 | solar | 2G SD for $2 etc.. |
| 17:07.29 | kergoth`work | but you can bookmark it with microsummaries so the bookmark title adjusts to the current item being sold, too |
| 17:07.35 | solar | past deal. Not current. But that one was too good to pass up |
| 17:07.37 | kergoth`work | just hard tof ind the room on the bookmarks toolbar for it |
| 17:08.13 | solar | pretty cool sounding extention. wonder if it works with seamonkey. |
| 17:08.39 | kergoth`work | the extension adds it to the statusbar |
| 17:09.00 | kergoth`work | updates every 10 minutes normally, and every 1 minute during a woot off |
| 17:09.20 | *** join/#edev bbradley (n=bbradley@78-105-167-16.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:09.25 | *** part/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 17:10.08 | CosmicPenguin | solar: they have a 4G for 3 bucks as a side deal |
| 17:13.09 | kergoth`work | any of you guys own a house? |
| 17:13.15 | prpplague | :( i do |
| 17:13.31 | kergoth`work | ever roll missed payments back onto the loan? wondering if there's a danger there |
| 17:13.42 | kergoth`work | my dad's been 2 months behind on my house payment (he's living at the house) for like 2 years, seriously |
| 17:13.50 | kergoth`work | dinging my credit every month the whole time |
| 17:13.59 | chouimat|work | bad |
| 17:14.02 | kergoth`work | he pays monthly, but cant afford the back payments, itll take him another year to catch up probably |
| 17:14.05 | Crofton | yeah |
| 17:14.18 | kergoth`work | so i'm thinking i'll roll em onto the loan if possible, even if it takes a bit longer to pay the house off, its better than this.. |
| 17:14.24 | kergoth`work | heh |
| 17:14.33 | prpplague | kergoth`work: sorry, i don't know about any of that, i'm terrible with that type of stuff |
| 17:14.40 | kergoth`work | np |
| 17:14.47 | prpplague | kergoth`work: but my guess is that it will be a small fee, |
| 17:15.04 | kergoth`work | i should add up the $35 monthly late fees for the past couple years |
| 17:15.09 | kergoth`work | should be a bargain by comparison |
| 17:15.10 | kergoth`work | :) |
| 17:15.11 | chouimat|work | prpplague: it's probably better than loosing the house and having a bad credit :) |
| 17:15.13 | CosmicPenguin | The main problem is that you'll add the payments to the principal of the lone |
| 17:15.20 | prpplague | i hate owning a house |
| 17:15.21 | CosmicPenguin | loan, but without the associated equity in the house |
| 17:15.28 | CosmicPenguin | and you'll have the additional interest on top of that |
| 17:15.48 | kergoth`work | ah |
| 17:15.57 | kergoth`work | and of course only a tiny % of each monthly paymetn goes toward that principal |
| 17:16.09 | kergoth`work | so its definately a bad thing to do, just probably not as bad as leaving it as is |
| 17:16.30 | prpplague | kergoth`work: might be better to see about getting a short term loan from the bank |
| 17:16.35 | kergoth`work | never happen |
| 17:16.40 | kergoth`work | my credit is below 600 on all 3 agencies |
| 17:16.50 | kergoth`work | if i got a loan, itd be like 14% interest or something |
| 17:17.41 | CosmicPenguin | Yeah - best thing to do would be to score a home equity loan |
| 17:18.07 | CosmicPenguin | and then do your damndest to pay it off as quickly as you possibly can |
| 17:18.24 | CosmicPenguin | if you roll it into a mortage, you'll be paying for it for 15 years |
| 17:18.34 | kergoth`work | 30, sadly |
| 17:18.38 | CosmicPenguin | that too |
| 17:18.41 | kergoth`work | what sucks about this is is because its 2 months behind, if he's late one month, its already pushing into foreclosure territory, there's no wiggle room now |
| 17:19.41 | agaffney | these days, the mortgage companies are waiting a *long* time to foreclose |
| 17:19.47 | kergoth`work | heh, true |
| 17:19.51 | agaffney | my mother hasn't made a payment on her house in over a year (long story) |
| 17:19.54 | kergoth`work | yow |
| 17:20.04 | agaffney | and they just recently contacted her asking if she wanted to resume her normal payments |
| 17:20.17 | agaffney | if she agreed to sign a promisary note saying she'd pay off the difference at some point |
| 17:20.21 | CosmicPenguin | yeah, they don't want the house |
| 17:20.21 | agaffney | this is CountryWide |
| 17:20.27 | prpplague | countrywide is pretty agressive about late payments |
| 17:20.31 | CosmicPenguin | too many already in foreclosure |
| 17:20.39 | prpplague | surprised that they didn't contact her sooner |
| 17:20.46 | agaffney | maybe they tried to |
| 17:20.47 | chouimat|work | so I guess the price are dropping? |
| 17:20.52 | agaffney | she hasn't lived in the house in that long |
| 17:21.00 | agaffney | there's was a whole situation with my stepdad and drug abuse |
| 17:21.07 | agaffney | she just moved out and left it behind |
| 17:21.24 | prpplague | agaffney: my payment is due on the 1st, and if they haven't received payment by the 5th or 6th, they usually start calling the house |
| 17:21.31 | kergoth`work | agaffney: ugh, sorry to hear that |
| 17:21.38 | agaffney | eh, things are better for her now |
| 17:21.42 | agaffney | he got clean and they're back together |
| 17:21.46 | kergoth`work | the mortgage company probably calls us twice a day. |
| 17:21.56 | agaffney | but they filed for chapter 13 bankruptcy |
| 17:22.16 | agaffney | anyway... |
| 17:22.26 | prpplague | agaffney: ahh thats why they didn't call |
| 17:22.34 | agaffney | they *just* filed |
| 17:22.38 | prpplague | agaffney: oh |
| 17:22.48 | agaffney | I almost always wait until the 15th to pay my mortgage |
| 17:22.50 | agaffney | and it's due on the 1st |
| 17:23.02 | agaffney | the only time they called was after I paid on the 16th one month (forgot about it) |
| 17:23.16 | agaffney | they started calling on the 4th or 5th for the 2 months after that asking about the payment |
| 17:23.19 | agaffney | but stopped since |
| 17:24.25 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i swear its like the timer isn't getting stopped on this keyboard matrix, really weird stuff |
| 17:24.40 | *** join/#edev phoix (n=phoix@xdslhh193.osnanet.de) |
| 17:25.47 | CosmicPenguin | okay |
| 17:25.56 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: just babeling |
| 17:26.23 | prpplague | agaffney: i consider purchasing a house my worst decision ever |
| 17:26.36 | CosmicPenguin | I'm killing time, I really don't want to start hacking on the geode X driver |
| 17:26.49 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I'm thinking about it ... but so far I'm happoy renting :) |
| 17:27.13 | chouimat|work | CosmicPenguin: I'm stuck in upnp hell :( |
| 17:27.23 | prpplague | chouimat|work: yea, i was too |
| 17:29.46 | prpplague | chouimat|work: i hate dealing with property taxes, house insurance, HOA, lawn work, maintenance |
| 17:30.13 | kergoth`work | i'd like to invest in real estate, buy a few places and rent them out, etc, at some point |
| 17:30.19 | kergoth`work | probably not for another 5-10 years though |
| 17:31.06 | prpplague | kergoth`work: the few people that i know who are very wealthy are those who own alot of real estate |
| 17:31.19 | wmat | phoix: did you solve the Error 2 you posted in #elinux? |
| 17:31.31 | kergoth`work | i dont look forward to dealing with the management of the place, but you can always pay someone to manage it for a % |
| 17:31.44 | prpplague | kergoth`work: yea |
| 17:33.07 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 17:34.06 | Crofton | kergoth`work, it is better if thy are close to you :) |
| 17:34.38 | kergoth`work | its true |
| 17:38.20 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 17:41.19 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@host-66-202-71-238.har.choiceone.net) |
| 17:41.49 | prpplague | T0mW: hey hey |
| 17:42.02 | prpplague | T0mW: ben dooks posted a patch for the missing bus info on the spi driver |
| 17:42.24 | T0mW | LOL |
| 17:42.45 | T0mW | somebody shame him into it? |
| 17:43.02 | prpplague | not i |
| 17:43.35 | T0mW | I pointed that out to him over a month ago (two months?) |
| 17:43.47 | phoix | wmat: yeah, i hadn't set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to the gmp and mpfr lib directories. heh |
| 17:44.38 | prpplague | hmm, if a key status changes while the device is suspended, the resume hangs |
| 17:44.41 | prpplague | strange |
| 17:44.53 | T0mW | prpplague: well, I can understand it. I have been busy pulling out carpeting, electric water heater, dishwasher and range. Then decided to pull out the washer + dryer, that I don't have time to play anymore. :( |
| 17:45.20 | T0mW | prpplague: all the appliances in the house are trash |
| 17:45.26 | prpplague | another proud house owner |
| 17:45.38 | T0mW | yes, I am! :D |
| 17:45.46 | chouimat|work | T0mW: renovating? |
| 17:45.57 | T0mW | I've discovered "Craigs list" |
| 17:46.24 | T0mW | chouimat|work: nope, novating, no reno about it, this is first go around. |
| 17:46.45 | chouimat|work | needs to get her out of his mind if he want to be productive this afternoon |
| 17:46.45 | prpplague | nuevating |
| 17:46.48 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:46.51 | T0mW | chouimat|work: the previous owners just plain wore everything out. |
| 17:46.59 | T0mW | nauseating |
| 17:47.00 | chouimat|work | T0mW: :( |
| 17:47.26 | *** join/#edev Madsy (n=madman@ti541110a340-2325.bb.online.no) |
| 17:47.50 | T0mW | prpplague: getting a class 2 hitch put on my Gran Prix so I can rent a trailer to goto Home Depot |
| 17:48.03 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe |
| 17:48.58 | prpplague | T0mW: glad it's you and not me |
| 17:49.34 | T0mW | prpplague: yeah, well, it's mine. ... mine mine MINE! |
| 17:50.25 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:52.15 | MothaWork | T0mW: not as bad as my place |
| 17:52.26 | MothaWork | previous owners pretty well trashed everything, despite it only being a year and a half old! |
| 17:52.37 | MothaWork | structurally, it's perfectly fine, but every surface needs attention, basically |
| 17:52.45 | MothaWork | and the appliances have been tortured, but are at least usable |
| 17:52.50 | MothaWork | washer/dryer is hurting |
| 17:56.11 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 17:56.12 | T0mW | MothaWork: washer + dryer + electric range + dishwasher + electric water heater all have to be replaced. Then, I have to seal the wood subfloor with |
| 17:56.33 | T0mW | MothaWork: washer + dryer + electric range + dishwasher + electric water heater all have to be replaced. Then, I have to seal the wood subfloor with B-I-N Primer to quell the smell of the dog piss. |
| 17:56.52 | Crofton | and you bought this place why? |
| 17:56.59 | T0mW | Crofton: cheap |
| 17:57.04 | T0mW | ? |
| 17:57.06 | Crofton | heh |
| 17:58.56 | T0mW | Crofton: and, the neighbors all have guns |
| 18:03.01 | CosmicPenguin | safe neighborhood |
| 18:03.11 | prpplague | bangs head on desk |
| 18:03.57 | T0mW | CosmicPenguin: the guy up the street was telling me something about a Second Amendment? heh |
| 18:09.07 | MothaWork | T0mW: sounds similar, except I don't have to immediately replace all the appliances |
| 18:09.16 | MothaWork | washer is pretty sickly sounding though |
| 18:10.00 | MothaWork | I had the carpets steam cleaned. Most of the rooms ended up being at least usable (I'll recarpet in a year or so), but the master bedroom and loft need replaced |
| 18:10.05 | MothaWork | too much dog piss |
| 18:10.34 | MothaWork | and the walls were dirty as hell. Splatters and scuffs everywhere. Lots of dents and dings. Oh, and they were YELLOW |
| 18:10.40 | MothaWork | bright, friggin, YELLOW |
| 18:10.50 | MothaWork | so lots of painting |
| 18:12.21 | chouimat|work | definitly prefers renting and having a cat :) |
| 18:13.31 | RobotGuy | rents and has a kitty |
| 18:14.04 | chouimat|work | wonders if someone can train a dog to use a litterbox .... |
| 18:14.22 | MothaWork | chouimat|away: it's been done. Not easy, apparently |
| 18:14.35 | MothaWork | they also apparently don't like conventional cat litter |
| 18:14.38 | ds2 | if you are going to train a dog, why not train it to use a toilet? |
| 18:14.45 | MothaWork | they apparently prefer something more akin to normal ground/grass |
| 18:14.50 | prpplague | lordy lordy, i can't seem to figure out whats causing this suspend/resume failure |
| 18:14.50 | chouimat|work | ds2 that too |
| 18:15.00 | MothaWork | ds2: also been done, though getting them to flush is hard :) |
| 18:15.38 | ds2 | MothaWork: so get an automatic flushing toilet ;) |
| 18:15.58 | chouimat|work | MothaWork: a friend of mine managed to train his cat to use the toilet and flush :) |
| 18:17.57 | RobotGuy | chouimat|work: I know people who have small dogs that use a litter box. |
| 18:27.07 | prpplague | talks to himself |
| 18:27.25 | prpplague | looks like its enabling some irq's before the resume has completed |
| 18:28.30 | kergoth`work | nothing wrong with talking to yourself, takling about stuff helps make it clear in your mind, whether someone else is there or not :) |
| 18:28.48 | *** join/#edev bbradley (n=bbradley@78-105-167-16.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:29.21 | prpplague | as long as you don't have gollum style conversations |
| 18:29.55 | kergoth`work | anyone messed with http://lwn.net/Articles/277196/ or http://sourceware.org/ml/binutils/2008-03/msg00162.html ? |
| 18:30.05 | prpplague | looks |
| 18:30.57 | prpplague | wow very interesting |
| 18:31.06 | prpplague | never tried that myself |
| 18:31.15 | prpplague | but looks like its worth a try |
| 18:31.28 | kergoth`work | being as libtool is the devil, any replacement sounds good to me |
| 18:32.27 | prpplague | kergoth`work: hehe, any lesser imps or demons would be better than the devil |
| 18:34.02 | chouimat|work | kergoth`work: not yet (gold) |
| 18:34.26 | chouimat|work | cd |
| 18:40.46 | ds2 | ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww |
| 18:40.50 | ds2 | C++ |
| 18:41.47 | ds2 | more churning in cesspool |
| 18:44.37 | RobotGuy | I can order the rest of my parts for W.A.L.T.E.R. now. :) |
| 18:45.29 | prpplague | you could make a spherical bot and call it wilson |
| 18:45.52 | RobotGuy | Then I'd have to come up with a new acronym. :P |
| 18:46.09 | MothaWork | ds2: there's nothing wrong with properly applied C++ |
| 18:46.21 | MothaWork | now, I'll accept arguments that perhaps many applications of C++ are improper |
| 18:46.28 | RobotGuy | Those sphere robots that were at Maker Faire were very cool. I watched some videos of them. |
| 18:46.40 | kergoth`work | i don't particularly like coding in it, but there are people that do, and i don't see a problem with that |
| 18:46.47 | prpplague | MothaWork: problem is very few programmers do it properly |
| 18:46.49 | ds2 | s/C++/rubber rooms/ |
| 18:46.50 | ds2 | :) |
| 18:47.05 | MothaWork | prpplague: I won't disagree with that |
| 18:47.23 | MothaWork | there are also some issues with size overhead on extremely small (<256k of storage) devices |
| 18:47.31 | MothaWork | it's hard to get the C++ runtime libraries below 4-60k |
| 18:47.34 | MothaWork | *40-60k |
| 18:47.57 | ds2 | when C++ works without all the runtime library crap... |
| 18:47.59 | MothaWork | not a problem on even a highly embedded Linux system, but presents some issues for using it on smaller devices running minimal RTOSes out of tiny flash storage |
| 18:48.09 | ds2 | crt0.o can be setup for hte most part in less then 512bytes |
| 18:48.22 | MothaWork | ds2: yes, but at that point you're also missing many of the reasons to use C++ in the first place |
| 18:48.44 | ds2 | MothaWork: IMO, there are absolutely no valid reason to use C++, ever. :) |
| 18:48.46 | chouimat|work | MothaWork: I used ecos on an lpc2138 ... and ecos is in c++ :) |
| 18:48.58 | MothaWork | chouimat|away: it can be done, if done careful |
| 18:48.59 | MothaWork | ly |
| 18:49.06 | chouimat|work | I know I did it :) |
| 18:49.24 | MothaWork | the time overhead and memory usage can be kept reasonably with some minimal attention |
| 18:49.29 | chouimat|work | ds2: better type checking is a good reason for me :) |
| 18:49.33 | MothaWork | getting the runtime library down to size though is hard |
| 18:49.58 | ds2 | chouimat|work: making all your users pay for your lack of dilligence is, IMO, a very bad idea. |
| 18:49.58 | MothaWork | yes, many problems on embedded devices are due to bad runtime type juggling and the corresponding memory corruption |
| 18:50.07 | MothaWork | it's VERY hard to debug sometimes |
| 18:50.11 | MothaWork | ds2: dev time is not free |
| 18:50.31 | MothaWork | if you can save 6 months of dev time on a medium volume device, paying for the extra 256k of flash may be worth it |
| 18:50.35 | ds2 | true but neither is the user's time and that's multiplied out |
| 18:50.50 | MothaWork | how does increased storage requirements affect the end user? |
| 18:51.03 | chouimat|work | I use c/c++/perl on the current project ... |
| 18:51.11 | MothaWork | notice I'm talking about the size of the runtime library, not execution time which can be kept reasonable with not a ton of difficulty |
| 18:51.55 | ds2 | increased size == more time to load |
| 18:52.03 | MothaWork | not when it's all XIP to begin with |
| 18:52.15 | ds2 | increased size == higher BOM costs |
| 18:52.22 | MothaWork | yes, higher BOM costs |
| 18:52.27 | ds2 | even with XIP, larger sizes has a higher cache penality |
| 18:52.29 | chouimat|work | http://www.caravan.net/ec2plus/ |
| 18:52.42 | MothaWork | however, compare an extra 50 cents on each unit vs. 6 months of a developer team |
| 18:52.50 | MothaWork | you need some major volume before that breaks even |
| 18:53.15 | ds2 | I've heard the arguments |
| 18:53.27 | MothaWork | and I think if you're down to arguing over cache residency, you're missing the point |
| 18:53.30 | ds2 | I much rather pay the extra costs when i buy a device and have it work quicker for me |
| 18:53.47 | MothaWork | ds2: would you also rather wait another 6 months for them (or not have them at all)? |
| 18:53.54 | MothaWork | and have them be maybe 1% "faster"? |
| 18:53.58 | ds2 | MonthaWork: actually, yes I would |
| 18:54.03 | MothaWork | we're talking devices that are usually bound on user input to begin with |
| 18:54.17 | MothaWork | these are things with 256k of flash. Things like a smart thermostat |
| 18:54.39 | MothaWork | they're so simple that much of the CPU time (even when being "used" by a human) is spent NOPing anyway |
| 18:54.41 | ds2 | 256K flash? I am thinking more of 32K or less |
| 18:54.59 | ds2 | NOP'ing away? guess your thermostates are line powered... the ones I use are 2 AA's |
| 18:55.03 | MothaWork | have you ever had UI speed issues on a device with 32k of ROM? |
| 18:55.14 | MothaWork | ds2: ok, or in sleep mode. You get the idea. |
| 18:55.34 | chouimat|work | at 32K i would use asm directly ... C is too big :) |
| 18:55.35 | ds2 | actually, yes but not in a thermostat |
| 18:55.50 | ds2 | <-- used C on HC11 and 8051 |
| 18:55.51 | MothaWork | that's not to say that C++ is good for every project. We started with it on a current project and abandoned it due to code size |
| 18:56.04 | MothaWork | chouimat|away: I've done C on devices down to about 2k. Works fine. Below 2k and it can get tough |
| 18:56.12 | MothaWork | depends on how much of that memory you actually NEED |
| 18:56.40 | chouimat|work | MothaWork: I'm ok now because the current project has 64MB of ram and a HDD :) |
| 18:56.42 | MothaWork | I programmed a 1k micro once that I needed 512B of lookup tables on (completely arbitrary maps, though I could have possibly compressed them some). I did that in asm |
| 18:56.59 | MothaWork | ended up with like 200B of code :) |
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| 18:57.25 | ds2 | and if it was in C++, you'd still be init'ing stuff in that 200B |
| 18:58.09 | MothaWork | yes, but notice I didn't even consider C for that project |
| 18:58.36 | MothaWork | if you need a 128-256k micro, the "overhead" in terms of size for C is well worth the reduced development time |
| 18:58.51 | MothaWork | if you need a 512k micro, you might look into C++ if it will buy you more reduced dev time |
| 18:59.22 | MothaWork | if, however, you only need 1k worth of code, you might have to consider that the overhead of C isn't worth your additional BOM costs since there's a limit to how complicated a program that fits in 1k can get |
| 19:00.34 | MothaWork | our current project compiles to something on the order of 200k of object code. The "overhead" of C is well worth it on a project of this scale. |
| 19:00.58 | MothaWork | Considering some of the bugs we've had to track down (which is hard when you have a trashed stack or other forms of memory corruption), C++ MAY have been worth it just to shorten the dev cycle |
| 19:04.41 | chouimat|work | ds2: when I was in university I used C++ to write my OS simply because the use of templates for some internal structure made my life a lot easier |
| 19:04.59 | RobotGuy | is finally starting to work on his .com website. |
| 19:08.07 | MothaWork | chouimat|away: what I really hate (and mind you, I'm NOT a C++ programmer - I know basic OO design principles and C++ syntax only) is when people do OO stuff in C like GTK/glib does. I'd much rather be working in a language I barely understand but that is actually intended for that usage than to work on a monstrosity like that. |
| 19:09.12 | chouimat|work | MothaWork: I agree with you on this one ... |
| 19:09.13 | kergoth`work | agreed. better off using the right tool for the job instead of wedging the functionality in |
| 19:10.09 | chouimat|work | MothaWork: gtk/glib wouldn't be this bad if they had implemented a "language" or a C extension and wrote a preprocessor that did the worse of the C job :) |
| 19:10.24 | MothaWork | chouimat|away: agreed. As it is, it's just butt ugly |
| 19:11.09 | chouimat|work | MothaWork: I managed to get a copy of Cfront and the generated C is .... well ugly |
| 19:15.54 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I think I need more current kernel headers. |
| 19:21.51 | prpplague | RobotGuy: for what? |
| 19:22.07 | RobotGuy | prpplague: For buildroot. |
| 19:22.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what makes you believe that you need different kernel headers? |
| 19:22.53 | RobotGuy | My Hammer panics at boot. |
| 19:23.34 | prpplague | RobotGuy: when the kernel starts or when the filesystem mounts? |
| 19:28.36 | RobotGuy | Nvm. I just don't know what I am doing. |
| 19:39.01 | prpplague | continues to debug suspend/resume |
| 19:48.18 | prpplague | g1powermac: package is showing delivered |
| 19:55.30 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Hi |
| 20:00.27 | RobotGuy | sighs |
| 20:15.43 | *** join/#edev flavioribeiro (n=flavio@services.mopa.tv) |
| 20:25.07 | *** join/#edev bbradley (n=bbradley@78-105-167-16.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:43.36 | RobotGuy | How can the entire JFFS2 image not get written to flash? My JFFS2 image is 11 MB, but Hammer only shows 4.3 MB used. |
| 20:43.49 | RobotGuy | This is not making sense to me. |
| 20:44.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: we've debugged this several times before |
| 20:45.11 | RobotGuy | This has never been a problem. |
| 20:45.48 | RobotGuy | At least not a problem I remember having before. |
| 20:46.10 | prpplague | you've had similiar problems twice before |
| 20:46.34 | RobotGuy | I don't recall ever having just part of a JFFS2 image written to flash though. |
| 20:46.42 | prpplague | ok |
| 20:46.50 | prpplague | post your bootlog |
| 20:49.10 | RobotGuy | If you could answer my question, it's possible I might be able to solve the problem on my own. |
| 20:49.48 | prpplague | there are about 20+ reasons why jffs2 image may not be written properly |
| 20:49.48 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/1086454 |
| 20:50.00 | prpplague | the best place to start is by looking at the bootlog |
| 20:52.12 | prpplague | RobotGuy: please do the "mount" command and paste the results |
| 20:54.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/1086461 |
| 20:55.38 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that all looks good, so my guess is that you've probably have a an issue with the flash method |
| 20:55.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: how did your write the jffs2 image to flash? |
| 20:56.04 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Used OpenOCD. |
| 20:56.14 | prpplague | RobotGuy: did you use a script? |
| 20:56.18 | prpplague | RobotGuy: or manually? |
| 20:56.33 | RobotGuy | I used a simple script |
| 20:56.42 | prpplague | RobotGuy: can you post it? |
| 20:56.49 | RobotGuy | Sure. |
| 20:58.41 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/1086468 |
| 20:59.59 | prpplague | RobotGuy: sorry, misunderstanding, i need the openocd script you are using |
| 21:00.47 | RobotGuy | Oh, OK. I have been working to convert the openocd scripts from solar's gentoo embedded scripts, so it is possible I have something wrong there. |
| 21:02.32 | ds2 | side question, why are you flashing with openocd? thought you had a shell into a running system already |
| 21:03.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/1086475 |
| 21:03.49 | RobotGuy | ds2: It's easy. |
| 21:04.11 | RobotGuy | ds2: I don't understand your comment. |
| 21:04.44 | ds2 | easier then ssh user@server "cat JFFS2image" | dd of=/dev/mtd3 bs=128k (or whatever the block/mtd device is)? |
| 21:05.20 | RobotGuy | ds2: I have to be able to get the image to the Hammer first. |
| 21:05.28 | ds2 | USBnet! |
| 21:05.33 | ds2 | wifi |
| 21:05.33 | RobotGuy | ds2: I can not ssh |
| 21:05.38 | ds2 | serial port |
| 21:05.41 | ds2 | SD card |
| 21:05.42 | ds2 | .... |
| 21:06.07 | solar | vs building upon the working firmware you had why be masochistic and rebuild the build system every time a small bug gets in the way? |
| 21:06.07 | RobotGuy | ds2: Using OpenOCD works fine for me. :) |
| 21:06.34 | RobotGuy | Rebuild the build system? |
| 21:06.38 | ds2 | solar: it is good discipline to have all your changes in one place so it can always be reproduced ;) |
| 21:06.50 | solar | if you need an ELF from one distro and another from another to accomplish an end goal. Just put mend them togehter |
| 21:07.33 | chouimat|work | goes to the pub |
| 21:07.34 | chouimat|work | later |
| 21:07.36 | RobotGuy | solar: I see your point, and am sure it works. However, I prefer to keep everything within the build system I am using at the time. |
| 21:07.59 | RobotGuy | solar: I would have difficulty keeping track of where I got everything. |
| 21:08.01 | solar | ds2: sure. But he seems to spend more time fighting build systems vs coding the robot itself. Just seems he could speed up the process of where he wants to be in the end by getting the initial POC working |
| 21:08.21 | prpplague | flavior: what are you compiling the ftdi module for? |
| 21:09.00 | solar | then beat it all into submission under a given desired build system. |
| 21:09.03 | RobotGuy | solar: I am not necessarily interested in speeding the process up. I just want a process that gets me the results I want reliably and can be reproduced easily. |
| 21:09.07 | ds2 | this reminds me... anyone tried putting the hammer into one of those cheap plastic spring pin sockets instead of the more expensive machined pin sockets? |
| 21:09.46 | prpplague | RobotGuy: all that looks fine |
| 21:10.01 | RobotGuy | I'm sad that I seem to have broken my gentoo embedded dev environment beyond what I can fix. |
| 21:10.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It looked good to me to, which is why I am baffled. |
| 21:11.01 | prpplague | RobotGuy: whats the actual size of the jffs2 image? |
| 21:11.35 | RobotGuy | solar: I may be able to get around having those two Python addon packages (pysqlite and imaging), but I still want to get the cross compiling of addons that have C extensions working. |
| 21:11.43 | RobotGuy | ls -lh reports 11 M |
| 21:12.07 | RobotGuy | -rw-r--r-- 1 robotguy staff 11M Jul 29 13:02 rootfs.jffs2 |
| 21:13.08 | RobotGuy | I think I am still going to need pysqlite regardless, because that is the interface to my database. |
| 21:18.37 | RobotGuy | I still prefer Gentoo Embedded over anything I have tried so far. |
| 21:22.50 | g1powermac | prpplague, got the package :-) |
| 21:23.45 | solar | it's really slow.. But I think a native nfs build environment would suit you the best |
| 21:24.19 | g1powermac | prpplague, this plastic case you threw in is quite interesting |
| 21:24.27 | RobotGuy | solar: That sounds like it would just overcomplicate things for me. |
| 21:25.13 | prpplague | g1powermac: good deal |
| 21:25.48 | solar | dunno. I think it would be alot eaiser. Say you nfs mounted /usr/arm-softfloat-linux-uclibc/ as /mnt/devenv/ ; and build the things that refuse to cross compile |
| 21:27.14 | RobotGuy | solar: Ah, you mean like a separate chroot type env where the ARM compiler is the only C compiler? |
| 21:28.07 | RobotGuy | Remember, I can't network with Hammer yet. I have to get in and fix my router. I changed some config stuff I shouldn't have messed with. |
| 21:28.17 | solar | oh |
| 21:28.34 | solar | then you should fix your router |
| 21:28.41 | RobotGuy | My new router is a WRT54GL, so it is well documented. :) |
| 21:29.13 | RobotGuy | Right now, I just want to get my two ARM build environments working properly. |
| 21:30.03 | solar | well if it's #gentoo stuff. Then lets take it to a proper channel. If it's buildroot then #uclibc |
| 21:30.12 | solar | if it's edev stuff then here |
| 21:30.37 | RobotGuy | One is Buildroot, and of course the other is GEmbedded. |
| 21:32.51 | RobotGuy | Actually, I believe Buildroot is working right. It's getting the resulting complete JFFS2 image to flash that seems to be the problem. |
| 21:33.55 | g1powermac | prpplague, she's working great |
| 21:34.09 | g1powermac | now I can finally get back to hacking it :-) |
| 21:34.34 | prpplague | g1powermac: sorry about the long delay |
| 21:34.42 | prpplague | g1powermac: just one thing after another |
| 21:34.45 | g1powermac | nah, like I said, its all cool |
| 21:34.53 | prpplague | shoot |
| 21:35.00 | prpplague | man i must have a sneak path |
| 21:35.08 | prpplague | suspend is drawing 30mA |
| 21:35.16 | prpplague | i expected it to be around 8mA |
| 21:35.27 | g1powermac | now if I can just get rid of this headache and recurring gallstone problem. . . |
| 21:35.42 | ds2 | LED left on? |
| 21:35.52 | prpplague | nope |
| 21:36.03 | prpplague | i'm guessing the audio codec has a sneak path |
| 21:36.16 | ds2 | I2S codec? |
| 21:36.24 | prpplague | yea |
| 21:36.31 | ds2 | is the clock still running? |
| 21:36.40 | prpplague | shouldn't be |
| 21:36.51 | prpplague | checks |
| 21:37.31 | prpplague | hmm, nope |
| 21:37.35 | prpplague | might be the magstripe |
| 21:37.37 | prpplague | checks |
| 21:38.10 | ds2 | Mmmmm analog bias currents |
| 21:39.07 | prpplague | well thats 1mA more, down to 29mA |
| 21:39.32 | ds2 | 21mA..that's a lot... does this one also have a laser bar code scanner? |
| 21:39.58 | prpplague | ds2: yea, but i currently have it powered down |
| 21:40.24 | ds2 | prpplague: are you clocking down to 0Hz or just doing a sleep mode? |
| 21:40.35 | prpplague | ds2: complete suspend |
| 21:40.46 | prpplague | ds2: core powered down |
| 21:41.00 | ds2 | Hmmm is the SDRAM in self refresh? |
| 21:41.27 | prpplague | yea, but that plus the Vdd-alive should only be around 4mA |
| 21:41.56 | ds2 | a bunch of pull ups being driven low? |
| 21:44.01 | prpplague | looks to be the audio codec |
| 21:49.34 | MothaWork | prpplague: is it not turning off its analog side maybe? |
| 21:50.19 | prpplague | MothaWork: doesn't look so |
| 21:52.16 | MothaWork | as in the analog stuff is being powered down? |
| 21:52.36 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea, the analog stuff looks to be still powered |
| 21:52.46 | MothaWork | ah, that could certainly pull some juice |
| 21:52.55 | MothaWork | especially if there's a built in headphone amp |
| 21:53.04 | MothaWork | even if it's not driving any signal, the bias currents on those amps can be high |
| 21:53.22 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea there is |
| 21:54.33 | MothaWork | well, that could certainly be the culprit |
| 21:54.36 | MothaWork | I need to get going, though |
| 21:58.36 | prpplague | is worn out |
| 22:01.49 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 22:02.27 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 22:02.27 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 22:24.56 | g1powermac_PB | heya RobotGuy |
| 22:26.23 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: Back to hacking now, eh? :) |
| 22:26.56 | g1powermac_PB | not atm, got an annoying headache |
| 22:27.09 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: I can relate. |
| 22:27.10 | g1powermac_PB | but will be hacking my z2 again soon |
| 22:27.30 | g1powermac_PB | I want to work on getting jtag up and running |
| 22:27.44 | g1powermac_PB | and then build a custom linux system for the z2 |
| 22:40.34 | RobotGuy | Well, since building software for hammer isn't working for me, I'm going to go tinker with web servers. |
| 22:40.56 | RobotGuy | I have three running on my PC now using different ports. :) |
| 22:41.16 | g1powermac_PB | heh |
| 22:41.32 | g1powermac_PB | GPSFan: the marvell chip on the z2 is using spi right? |
| 22:41.37 | g1powermac_PB | or is it sdio? |
| 22:49.11 | RobotGuy | Why is TI so stuck up about releasing info on their OMAP and related stuff? Seems like they still have NDAs on some parts of their hardware. |
| 22:51.40 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-80-20.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 22:51.47 | g1powermac_PB | heya prpplague |
| 22:51.50 | prpplague | hey |
| 22:51.59 | RobotGuy | Greetings program. |
| 22:52.33 | g1powermac_PB | I know you've been really busy this past month, but I wanted to ask you if seen any progress being done for a driver for the marvell chip in the z2 |
| 22:52.38 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB got your z2 taken apart yet? |
| 22:52.59 | g1powermac_PB | not yet, dang headache is stopping me :( |
| 22:53.05 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB i'm working on the driver for the 8686 but i'm primarily working on the sdio stuff |
| 22:53.21 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB after i get this 8050 stable, i'll have some time to tinker with it |
| 22:53.35 | g1powermac_PB | cool |
| 22:53.36 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB the 8050 uses the same chipset as the z2 |
| 22:53.41 | g1powermac_PB | ahh |
| 22:54.06 | g1powermac_PB | now the z2 uses gspi right? |
| 22:54.26 | prpplague | the 8686 supports three interfaces, gspi, sdio, and cf |
| 22:54.46 | prpplague | configured with 2 sets of zero ohm resistors |
| 22:55.27 | g1powermac_PB | ahh |
| 22:56.54 | g1powermac_PB | so the drivers for the three different interfaces are generally the same besides the differences in the interfacing? |
| 22:57.05 | g1powermac_PB | or what would be the drivers |
| 22:57.43 | prpplague | correct its a layered driver |
| 22:57.51 | prpplague | the upper layers are exactly the same |
| 22:58.30 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB the 8686 shares the upper layers also with the 8388 and 8385 |
| 22:58.34 | g1powermac_PB | ahh, thats cool |
| 22:59.04 | prpplague | 8388 is usb and the 8385 is basically identical to the 8686 where the 8686 is designed for low power operations |
| 22:59.06 | g1powermac_PB | so your work with the 8686 on your 8050 will be helpful for the z2 as well :-) |
| 22:59.28 | prpplague | the only reason the gspi hasn't been worked on has been because no one has seen the gspi firmware in the wild |
| 22:59.50 | prpplague | since the z2 has the firmware, it is now possible to do the lower layer that is for the gspi interface |
| 22:59.51 | g1powermac_PB | well, we definitely have the firmware |
| 23:00.25 | prpplague | problem is i have certain limitations on what i can do since i'm under NDA with marvell |
| 23:00.35 | g1powermac_PB | ahh |
| 23:00.44 | g1powermac_PB | hmm, what kind of limitations? |
| 23:00.57 | ds2 | that's probally under NDA ;) |
| 23:01.01 | prpplague | hehe |
| 23:01.03 | g1powermac_PB | heh |
| 23:01.10 | prpplague | nda for nda for nda for nda to say i' |
| 23:01.14 | prpplague | m under a nda |
| 23:01.26 | g1powermac_PB | don't forget that other meta-nda ;-) |
| 23:01.47 | RobotGuy | Ooooooooooooooooooooh, nooooooooooooo, not META stuff again.. :P |
| 23:02.07 | g1powermac_PB | now why hasn't someone tried to patent ndas? that'd be fun to watch ;-) |
| 23:02.33 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, WAIV may be listening in.. |
| 23:04.28 | g1powermac_PB | heh |
| 23:06.37 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB i have access to a bunch of the datasheets, so i have to be careful about what info release |
| 23:07.50 | g1powermac_PB | ok, we need someone who has no money and doesn't plan on any future to go out, sign all these NDAs, get all this good info, and then release it to the world ;-) |
| 23:08.22 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: I fit that description. |
| 23:08.23 | CosmicPenguin | and then you go to jail with them |
| 23:08.25 | CosmicPenguin | what fun |
| 23:08.51 | g1powermac_PB | there is no jail for breaking an NDA |
| 23:08.56 | g1powermac_PB | just massive lawsuits |
| 23:09.03 | CosmicPenguin | there is for purposely breaking it |
| 23:09.06 | CosmicPenguin | theft |
| 23:09.10 | g1powermac_PB | hmm |
| 23:09.18 | g1powermac_PB | then you need to leave the country too ;-) |
| 23:09.19 | RobotGuy | Oh wait, I have $58.00, but that is mostly for robot parts |
| 23:09.31 | CosmicPenguin | I know a bar in Malaysia |
| 23:09.33 | CosmicPenguin | we'll meet there |
| 23:09.38 | g1powermac_PB | hehe |
| 23:11.49 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin aren't you under NDA with marvell on the 8388 stuff? |
| 23:11.57 | CosmicPenguin | heavens no |
| 23:12.02 | CosmicPenguin | are you kidding? |
| 23:13.58 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin didn't know how much you were involved in that portion of the 8388 dev |
| 23:14.14 | g1powermac_PB | heh, instead of free willy, free info! |
| 23:16.07 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB yea, i personally think its silly that marvell keeps the docs this way, but hey, gotta play by the rules |
| 23:17.43 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB the libertas api datasheet was posted by accident by a marvell employee onto the libertas mailing list |
| 23:18.02 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB iirc marvell asked for it to be removed, but its still out there on the archives |
| 23:23.17 | g1powermac_PB | ahh |
| 23:23.41 | g1powermac_PB | i tried looking for it, couldn't find it |
| 23:29.36 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB didn't try hard enough |
| 23:29.38 | prpplague | http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/libertas-dev/2006-June/000029.html |
| 23:30.05 | prpplague | is the king of digging up documents on the web |
| 23:32.29 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB that doc contains pretty much all you need to implement the gspi interface |
| 23:37.43 | g1powermac_PB | awesome, thanks |
| 23:50.32 | *** join/#edev ce_geek (n=ce_geek@c-66-31-5-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 23:58.20 | *** join/#edev roxfan (n=dunno@103.12-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 23:59.38 | RobotGuy | www.swhack |
