| 00:04.42 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@69.73.223.106) |
| 00:10.40 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@69.73.223.106) |
| 00:45.09 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@69.73.223.106) |
| 00:48.11 | RobotGuy | Back |
| 00:49.08 | RobotGuy | Yep, I'm large alright. Got to get rid of some of this stress/aniety. |
| 01:02.09 | g1powermac | hmmm |
| 01:02.16 | g1powermac | isn't in a great mood either tonight |
| 01:04.01 | prpplague | RobotGuy thats what wellbutrin is for |
| 01:04.10 | RobotGuy | I'm in a good mood - just can't decide what I want to do. So far, I am leaning towards tinkering with my Arduino and seeing how my new JTAG works with my ARM7 boards. |
| 01:05.01 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have never taken that. I have stuff for it, but it only helps so much. |
| 01:05.06 | g1powermac | is pissed that he killed the mac os install on his powerbook 520c and can't find the stupid scsi adapter to hook it up to the large scsi external hdd to backup and reinstall |
| 01:05.43 | RobotGuy | I forgot I have a buildroot setup on my server. I just rediscovered it. |
| 01:06.14 | ds2 | need to buy a power book scsi adapter? :) |
| 01:06.29 | g1powermac | ds2, why, you got one? |
| 01:06.37 | MonMotha | prpplague: do you happen to know of any "mid-range" JTAG interfaces for ARM, preferably openocd compatible? |
| 01:06.38 | g1powermac | just bid on one from ebay. . . |
| 01:06.46 | g1powermac | but I think I can retract it |
| 01:06.49 | MonMotha | something that's faster than the olimex bit-banged ones, but not 5 figures |
| 01:06.55 | ds2 | g1powermac: actually, I do ;) |
| 01:07.00 | g1powermac | oh |
| 01:07.02 | g1powermac | hmm |
| 01:07.08 | prpplague | MonMotha you are going to have to provide qualifiers for "mid-range" |
| 01:07.16 | g1powermac | ds2, do you got the powerbook to go with it? :-) |
| 01:07.21 | MonMotha | prpplague: <MonMotha> something that's faster than the olimex bit-banged ones, but not 5 figures |
| 01:07.21 | ds2 | it is sitting on the dock of a color powerbook 270 I think |
| 01:07.28 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: I just got the big Olimex USB OpenOCD for ARM. |
| 01:07.32 | g1powermac | ahh |
| 01:07.33 | ds2 | g1powermac: yep |
| 01:07.35 | g1powermac | kewl |
| 01:07.36 | MonMotha | RobotGuy: they're SLOW |
| 01:07.37 | ds2 | maybe it isn't color |
| 01:07.49 | g1powermac | willing to donate it to a collector? ;-) |
| 01:07.52 | ds2 | been ages since I looked at it; battery is dead on it anyways |
| 01:07.57 | MonMotha | I'm looking for something that's at least as fast as my JTAGICE mkII is for AVR |
| 01:08.01 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: They match my speed perfect then. :) |
| 01:08.11 | ds2 | if you were local, I would say come and get it |
| 01:08.12 | prpplague | MonMotha the olimex bit-bangers, are you refering to the ft2232 based ones? |
| 01:08.14 | MonMotha | RobotGuy: issue is memory dumping and large numbers of local variables |
| 01:08.15 | MonMotha | prpplague: yeah |
| 01:08.26 | g1powermac | ds2, I can send you a UPS label |
| 01:08.37 | prpplague | MonMotha those actually aren't bit banging, the ft2232 actually has a jtag based controller |
| 01:08.38 | ds2 | g1powermac: still got to box it so it won't arrive broken |
| 01:08.46 | prpplague | MonMotha but to answer your question , no |
| 01:08.47 | g1powermac | hmm, true |
| 01:08.52 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: Well, this JTAG better at least get the job done. I paid $71.00 for it. |
| 01:09.10 | prpplague | MonMotha the next step up from the olimex/flyswatter is the bdi or laugterbach |
| 01:09.11 | ds2 | and if I do it, you got to take both of my docs.... one dead in peices and one working ;) |
| 01:09.14 | MonMotha | prpplague: really...hum, still not fast enough :) |
| 01:09.25 | g1powermac | hehe |
| 01:09.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy eh gads |
| 01:09.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy $71 why? |
| 01:09.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy you could have gotten another flyswatter |
| 01:09.44 | ds2 | someone is springing for a bdi/lauterbach?! wow |
| 01:09.47 | RobotGuy | prpplague: This is the big one, not the Tiny, from SFE. |
| 01:10.06 | g1powermac | ds2, lemme see if I find something this weekend, I'm going out to shop at the 127 yard sale thing that goes through this state |
| 01:10.15 | MonMotha | prpplague: I take it those cost $$$$$? |
| 01:10.20 | ds2 | g1powermac: okay |
| 01:10.29 | g1powermac | might come home with bundles of old tech tomorrow and saturday |
| 01:10.33 | g1powermac | could be bad ;-) |
| 01:10.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy no difference between the "big one" and the flyswatter, except the swatter is open |
| 01:10.38 | ds2 | hahaha |
| 01:10.50 | ds2 | g1powermac: is old SparcStations also on your list of interests? |
| 01:10.54 | prpplague | MonMotha lauter is about 2k and the bdi is about 3k |
| 01:10.58 | MonMotha | I figured |
| 01:11.10 | MonMotha | I was hoping for something like the Atmel JTAGICE type things |
| 01:11.12 | g1powermac | really would take anything |
| 01:11.13 | prpplague | MonMotha if you are going to spend the $$ go with the bdi |
| 01:11.15 | g1powermac | its bad |
| 01:11.20 | MonMotha | "pretty good" and only $350 or so |
| 01:11.23 | prpplague | MonMotha i was not impressed with the lauter |
| 01:11.26 | MonMotha | prpplague: I ee |
| 01:11.28 | prpplague | MonMotha we have two |
| 01:11.29 | MonMotha | *see |
| 01:11.33 | prpplague | MonMotha two lauters |
| 01:11.41 | g1powermac | ds2, anything from the early p1 days back :-) |
| 01:11.50 | ds2 | g1powermac: hmmmm send a call tag + a small pallet? ;) |
| 01:12.03 | ds2 | and a roll of those wrapping stuff too! |
| 01:12.05 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I think it would be cool to eventually have a stack board for the Hammer-RDP with Flyswatter, USB hub(s), whatever else might fit. :). |
| 01:12.14 | g1powermac | but the big ones I go for are any macs and especially apples, I really want an original apple II or IIe |
| 01:12.18 | prpplague | RobotGuy to what end? |
| 01:12.46 | RobotGuy | prpplague: To have JTAG accessible and USB hubs for devices, of course. |
| 01:13.01 | ds2 | I have a spare MacSE motherboard lying around but I need it for the Mac ROM license :/ |
| 01:13.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy hmm, doesn;t sound pratical |
| 01:13.18 | RobotGuy | Without having to mount a flyswatter on the chassis. |
| 01:13.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy still i cant believe you spent $71 for the exact same thing as the flyswatter |
| 01:13.27 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Why is that not practical? |
| 01:13.42 | prpplague | RobotGuy but why would you need to have a jtag mounted on the chassis |
| 01:13.55 | ds2 | wishes the flyswatter would work with the ARM Cortex A8 today |
| 01:14.00 | ds2 | ;) |
| 01:14.01 | prpplague | ds2 yea |
| 01:14.14 | MonMotha | prpplague: have you used the USB gadget support at all? |
| 01:14.15 | prpplague | ds2 rusty and i spent some time last night discussing that |
| 01:14.22 | prpplague | MonMotha plenty |
| 01:14.42 | MonMotha | prpplague: any gotchas, or is it just "load the module and play"? |
| 01:14.46 | prpplague | ds2 i would LOVE to spend time doing that |
| 01:14.46 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Hammer-RDP can stack. I don't want to mount a JTAG on the robot body and take up precious real estate. I want to have JTAG always available. |
| 01:14.53 | prpplague | MonMotha lots of gotchas |
| 01:14.57 | MonMotha | I figured |
| 01:14.59 | ds2 | prpplague: *nod* |
| 01:15.04 | g1powermac | ds2, I can send you the rom's from my dead mac II ;-) |
| 01:15.11 | MonMotha | prpplague: any resources detailing the common gotchas? |
| 01:15.18 | prpplague | RobotGuy why always available, you should only need it when you reload the bootloader |
| 01:15.51 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That isn't how I do things though. I flash everything all at once. |
| 01:16.01 | ds2 | prpplague: the president of TCT is the same as the president of the paying side that you work with? |
| 01:16.19 | prpplague | ds2 s/president/owner |
| 01:16.30 | ds2 | ah.. his card just says president |
| 01:16.51 | prpplague | MonMotha sorry no, the big key is having a good usb connected detect line |
| 01:17.17 | prpplague | MonMotha if you don;t have that its a beoych to get reliable gadget service |
| 01:18.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy you may do it that way, but thats not how most people do it |
| 01:18.25 | MonMotha | prpplague: as in vbus presence to the micro? |
| 01:18.27 | RobotGuy | prpplague: How do "most" people do it? |
| 01:18.36 | ds2 | RobotGuy: replace the JTAG connector with a soldered on ribbon cable |
| 01:18.46 | prpplague | RobotGuy most load via a SD card, network, or via serial |
| 01:19.00 | prpplague | MonMotha yea use the vbus as detect |
| 01:19.41 | prpplague | MonMotha alot of people forget to setup a detection method |
| 01:19.51 | prpplague | MonMotha which really impacts the reliability |
| 01:20.08 | RobotGuy | prpplague: 1) No SD working yet on Hammer Carrier. 2) No network with Hammer at present. 3) I think uploading 13 MB over serial is intolerably slow. |
| 01:20.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy 1) it does work, 2) usb and enc28j60 work, 3) serial is just for initialization |
| 01:21.36 | MonMotha | prpplague: ok, that might explain the trouble I had. I have a detect (though it's not on an interrupt - just a GPIO), but I know our board code doesn't use it currently. Fortunately a software fix. |
| 01:21.41 | prpplague | RobotGuy jtag is slower in most cases than serial port anyway |
| 01:21.59 | MonMotha | I could use pin change interrupt if it needs an interrupt |
| 01:22.04 | prpplague | MonMotha yea that is a big item |
| 01:22.19 | prpplague | brb sigwife |
| 01:22.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I didn't say it does not work, only that I don't have the SD working yet (have not got that far yet). 2) Don't understand what you mean here. |
| 01:24.45 | ds2 | enc28j60 is SPI or I2C? |
| 01:27.02 | prpplague | ds2 spi |
| 01:27.34 | prpplague | RobotGuy both usb and other networking works fine with the hammer |
| 01:28.28 | ds2 | Hmmmm |
| 01:28.45 | ds2 | prpplague: that might be a way to add a ethernet port that is usable in u-boot to beagle |
| 01:29.01 | ds2 | prpplague: know off hand what package the enc28j60 comes in? |
| 01:29.34 | prpplague | ds2 it comes in atleast 4 packages |
| 01:29.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I do not doubt that, but I have not had gadget ethernet working yet and have not fixed my WRT54GL router yet. |
| 01:29.51 | prpplague | ds2 olimex sells a module, and tincantools is developing one too |
| 01:30.21 | ds2 | prpplague: I am thinking more of a combined etherent + second serial port module for the beagle...the right signals are there on the expansion connectors |
| 01:30.29 | prpplague | RobotGuy you have to stop thinking individually, what if you needed to make 100, 500, or even 1000 walters? |
| 01:30.45 | prpplague | RobotGuy let me give you an example |
| 01:30.52 | ds2 | isn't the correct answer - have walter make itself? ;) |
| 01:31.06 | prpplague | RobotGuy do you jtag to your arudino board every time? |
| 01:31.23 | RobotGuy | Arduino has a bootloader. |
| 01:31.29 | prpplague | exactly |
| 01:31.49 | RobotGuy | APEX does not work the same way though. |
| 01:32.00 | RobotGuy | Unless I have missed something. |
| 01:32.06 | prpplague | RobotGuy but if you carry that on |
| 01:32.25 | prpplague | RobotGuy for example |
| 01:32.46 | prpplague | RobotGuy the M5900 has two kernels, and rootfs |
| 01:33.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy the first set of kernel and initrd NEVER is replaced after loading |
| 01:33.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy loading via jtag |
| 01:33.26 | prpplague | RobotGuy the second set is always loaded via the first set |
| 01:33.53 | prpplague | RobotGuy if you boot the M5900 without a second kernel the first one boots, and it boots to init the networking |
| 01:34.18 | prpplague | RobotGuy once the networking is up, it allows you load the second kernel via the network, usb gadget, sd card, or just about anything else linux support |
| 01:34.19 | prpplague | s |
| 01:34.56 | RobotGuy | The only other way to load a JFFS2 image I have learned is uploading to memory using APEX, erasing flash, and writing what I uploaded to flash. |
| 01:35.00 | prpplague | the bootloader+kernel+initrd all work just like the "bootloader |
| 01:35.04 | RobotGuy | The first set always is in flash? |
| 01:35.06 | prpplague | " on the adrno |
| 01:35.29 | prpplague | RobotGuy the firstkernel and ramdisk are always loaded via jtag to flash |
| 01:35.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy they are less than 1.5mb |
| 01:35.45 | RobotGuy | OK |
| 01:35.49 | prpplague | RobotGuy and just have enough to get the second set of kernel and rootfs |
| 01:36.14 | prpplague | RobotGuy you have seen the images of the M8050? |
| 01:36.37 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@69.73.223.106) |
| 01:36.50 | RobotGuy | This is the part I never seem to quite get though. You still need drivers in the first set to support whatever medium(s) you want to load the second set from. |
| 01:37.08 | RobotGuy | I don't think I have seen the M8050 yet. |
| 01:37.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy that is correct |
| 01:37.17 | prpplague | http://www.elinux.org/M8050 |
| 01:37.34 | prpplague | the rootfs is 78mn |
| 01:37.36 | prpplague | mb |
| 01:37.43 | prpplague | you think we are going to load that via jtag? |
| 01:38.20 | prpplague | that would take forever |
| 01:38.49 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ummm, no, I would not expect you to load that via JTAG. I don't even like loading 13 MB or so via JTAG. |
| 01:38.55 | prpplague | we load apex, a 750k kernel, and a 500k 5initrd |
| 01:39.16 | prpplague | the system reboots, boots the kernel+initrd |
| 01:39.30 | RobotGuy | What do you load that 78 MB from? |
| 01:39.54 | prpplague | then ftps the rest of the load from either a sd card via a spi interface, or via a enc28j60 network interface |
| 01:40.03 | RobotGuy | has a 4 GB microSD card. |
| 01:40.33 | prpplague | RobotGuy you ever hear the saying "shite rolls down hill" |
| 01:40.53 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am sure I have heard that a time or two. :p |
| 01:41.04 | prpplague | RobotGuy well so does production tech |
| 01:41.24 | prpplague | RobotGuy the way big business mass produces items is the way the tech is designed and filters down to hobbists |
| 01:42.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy there are some things you can do to make it easier for hobbists, but the big business dictates where the tech goes |
| 01:42.45 | prpplague | RobotGuy so if you want to make it "work" you need to ask "if i were TI and i had 50000000 to produce what would the easiests and most economical method?" |
| 01:43.02 | RobotGuy | But hammer doesn't have but just 32 MB RAM. Wouldn't I do better to have hammer get everything from a thumb drive or microSD/SD as needed? |
| 01:43.36 | prpplague | RobotGuy i don't see how that is relevant |
| 01:43.53 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK. I am still pretty new to all this though and I don't know how the big boys do it other than what you tell me, and I try to learn from. |
| 01:44.49 | RobotGuy | My understanding of all this is still much less than I would like it to be. |
| 01:45.20 | prpplague | RobotGuy like i said, try asking yourself the questions from the mass market side of things |
| 01:45.46 | RobotGuy | prpplague: The problem is I am not able to look with the same eyes as you look with. |
| 01:45.56 | prpplague | RobotGuy the 3 things jtag was really designed for 1) erase flash 2) program flash 3) debug low level applications |
| 01:46.27 | RobotGuy | Should I send this new JTAG back then and get something else? |
| 01:46.38 | prpplague | RobotGuy imho its too late |
| 01:46.52 | prpplague | RobotGuy but you could always doc on how to use it with hammer, hehe |
| 01:46.54 | RobotGuy | I have not even plugged it in yet. |
| 01:47.06 | RobotGuy | I have no plans to use it with Hammer. |
| 01:47.16 | RobotGuy | Only for my ARM7 stuff. |
| 01:47.37 | RobotGuy | I only use Flyswatter with hammer. |
| 01:47.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy thats up to you, but the olimex item is no different that the hammer, but the hammer is more robust and is open platform |
| 01:48.50 | RobotGuy | Hrmmmmm |
| 01:50.01 | prpplague | ds2 you got a good spi port on the beagle? |
| 01:50.25 | prpplague | ds2 the 2.6.25 kernel has a enc28j60 driver based on my initial 2.4 driver for testing |
| 01:50.39 | MonMotha | prpplague: IRQ is required for vbus? or can it be polled well enough? |
| 01:50.48 | MonMotha | I'm out of dedicated IRQs, so I'd have to do a pin-change |
| 01:51.04 | solar | saw the beagle yesterday at the TI booth. tiz cute.. |
| 01:51.13 | prpplague | MonMotha polled is fine, but it needs to be able to control the operations of the gadget |
| 01:51.15 | ds2 | prpplague: think so... one of the hw SPI pins are exposed |
| 01:51.27 | ds2 | solar: when were you there? |
| 01:51.40 | MonMotha | prpplague: well, I presume that's just properly hooking things up in the kernel? |
| 01:51.43 | prpplague | ds2 that'd work, you need one spi, with a chipselect, and 1 external irq |
| 01:51.47 | ds2 | prpplague: hardest part is getting it wired up if it is BGA only or nonsampleable |
| 01:51.51 | solar | yesterday afternoon. You don't work for TI do ya? |
| 01:52.00 | prpplague | MonMotha no, its usually platform specific |
| 01:52.08 | ds2 | prpplague: I think the GPIOs are IRQ capable.... know what voltage is the enc28j60? |
| 01:52.19 | ds2 | solar: nope, but I pester them a lot ;) |
| 01:52.28 | prpplague | ds2 its 3.3v |
| 01:52.30 | MonMotha | prpplague: well, where is the place to patch things in at the bsp level? |
| 01:52.39 | RobotGuy | sighs |
| 01:52.43 | ds2 | prplague: is there a 1.8V variant? |
| 01:52.50 | MonMotha | i.e. where do I tell the gadget subsystem/udc system about my vbus presence line? |
| 01:52.54 | prpplague | MonMotha not really, very very platform independent |
| 01:53.06 | prpplague | MonMotha hard code in the udc driver |
| 01:53.11 | MonMotha | I see |
| 01:53.15 | prpplague | ds2 sorry no |
| 01:53.23 | prpplague | ds2 you can buffer the i/o |
| 01:53.28 | MonMotha | so in this case that's hopefully exposed by the AT91 UDC stuff into the BSP init file |
| 01:53.28 | prpplague | ds2 easy enough to do |
| 01:53.32 | MonMotha | I |
| 01:53.36 | MonMotha | I'll have to look. Thanks. |
| 01:53.50 | ds2 | prpplague: trying to avoid having too many components if I can... dead bug/point to point doesn't lend itself well to that :( |
| 01:53.59 | prpplague | MonMotha like i said, it is THE number one missed item because people assume it is already done |
| 01:54.07 | prpplague | ds2 yea |
| 01:54.17 | prpplague | ds2 i'll mention that to rusty |
| 01:54.22 | ds2 | prpplague: are they easy to sample? |
| 01:54.26 | MonMotha | prpplague: well, I didn't even know it paid attention. It was nowhere in the sample BSP init files. |
| 01:54.29 | prpplague | ds2 he's doing some "compatible" modules for the beagle |
| 01:54.35 | MonMotha | fortunately I do have it wired up on the PCB |
| 01:54.37 | prpplague | ds2 including a flyswatter rev |
| 01:55.23 | prpplague | MonMotha yea, big issue with several of the early ipaqs |
| 01:57.08 | MonMotha | interesting |
| 01:57.16 | MonMotha | that seems like something they wouldn't have missed |
| 01:57.21 | MonMotha | explains the flakey UDC on them, though |
| 01:57.35 | MonMotha | (well, along with all the SA1110 UDC errata) |
| 01:59.20 | prpplague | exactly |
| 01:59.47 | prpplague | one of the problems that has continued to propogate in the OSS community |
| 01:59.50 | prpplague | i.e. OLPC |
| 02:00.00 | prpplague | people don;t discuss failures |
| 02:00.33 | MonMotha | apparently |
| 02:00.46 | MonMotha | I'm glad I put it on there |
| 02:01.21 | MonMotha | Software fixes are always possible. Hardware fixes cost money. |
| 02:02.00 | prpplague | indeed, first rev is always massive 0 ohm resistors, unless you are AML's current EE |
| 02:04.37 | prpplague | goes to deal with some kid issues |
| 02:04.45 | prpplague | MonMotha give me shout tomorrow for questions |
| 02:04.51 | MonMotha | I managed to get by with only 8 on rev. 1, 1 on rev. 2 (one discovered issue), then none on rev. 3 |
| 02:04.54 | prpplague | MonMotha i'll send you some schematics and such |
| 02:04.54 | MonMotha | prpplague: will do |
| 02:04.58 | MonMotha | ok |
| 02:05.05 | prpplague | later folks |
| 02:05.10 | MonMotha | later |
| 02:05.18 | solar | cya |
| 02:12.16 | g1powermac | ponders about this. . . |
| 02:12.53 | g1powermac | kernels devs are having issues getting the driver to work with some of the scsi controllers in the older macs |
| 02:13.04 | g1powermac | and yea, there is no datasheet for it |
| 02:13.37 | g1powermac | but, there is a datasheet for the same chip made by a different company where they say its pin and software compatible with other said chip |
| 02:14.03 | RobotGuy | Does that datasheet work for what you have? |
| 02:14.30 | g1powermac | supposedly it will because its the technically for the same chip |
| 02:15.30 | g1powermac | http://www.national.com/opf/DP/DP5380.html#General%20Description |
| 02:15.53 | g1powermac | the chip in the macs is the NCR5380 |
| 02:16.02 | g1powermac | well, technically I think its the NCR53c80 |
| 02:16.16 | g1powermac | at least thats what is in the mac II |
| 02:16.25 | RobotGuy | Well, if you blow something up by going by that datasheet, you will know there is something not quite the same there.. :) |
| 02:17.05 | g1powermac | hehe, true |
| 02:17.28 | g1powermac | the ncr5380 is in the original mac classic |
| 02:17.42 | RobotGuy | So get to the hacking then already! :) |
| 02:17.55 | g1powermac | not sure whats in my mac classic II |
| 02:18.00 | RobotGuy | Don't be a 'fraidy cat like I am. |
| 02:18.08 | g1powermac | loves having mac mobos hanging on the wall ;-) |
| 02:19.14 | g1powermac | I need to get my powerbook working again |
| 02:23.36 | g1powermac | might as well try a linux install on it now as well |
| 02:24.33 | RobotGuy | Linux usually doesn't require as much resources as other stuff. |
| 02:26.14 | g1powermac | likes netbsd for such old stuff too |
| 02:28.10 | RobotGuy | I'm a bit lost without my buildroot wrapper scripts |
| 02:28.47 | RobotGuy | Iprefer FreeBSD - it's generally easier to deal with and multimedia stuff usually works better on it. |
| 02:29.36 | g1powermac | interesting: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/hardware2.html |
| 02:29.44 | g1powermac | all the developer notes for all the different macs |
| 02:31.55 | g1powermac | anyway, time for bed, gnight all |
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| 02:51.01 | solar | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:52.42 | RobotGuy | I'll be glad when Monday gets here. |
| 02:57.11 | agaffney | most people don't look forward to monday :P |
| 03:01.55 | RobotGuy | agaffney: I am getting my ceiling fan installed Monday. |
| 03:03.00 | RobotGuy | After that, I hope to be able to maintain a tolerable environment in my living room and then can move my fan to my bedroom. |
| 03:09.26 | agaffney | ah |
| 03:10.28 | Madsy | Anyone knows if ARM sell hardcopies of their technical manuals? |
| 03:10.57 | Madsy | pdf documents suck |
| 03:11.02 | RobotGuy | Madsy: You do not have to pay for ARM technical manuals as far as I know. I got mine for FREE. |
| 03:11.27 | RobotGuy | Hmmm, well if you don't like PDF, you may have to pay. |
| 03:11.42 | Madsy | Lucky bastard. But sure, I'll pay up. If I can find where they sell them. |
| 03:11.54 | Madsy | I didn't imply that I wouldn't spend money on it |
| 03:12.08 | Madsy | I did pay for my armarm |
| 03:12.50 | Madsy | However it would have been awesome to have the ARM920TDMI and ARM940TDMI specifications in paperback as well |
| 03:18.10 | MonMotha | Madsy: call up your local printing places and ask if they'll do a cheap job with long turn-time |
| 03:23.49 | Madsy | MonMotha: That was my plan for my SoC documentation on 560 pages |
| 03:24.19 | Madsy | It'll probably cost me about 200 bucks, at least. |
| 03:25.43 | MonMotha | Madsy: that's why you ask for a special on "long turn time" |
| 03:25.51 | MonMotha | Kinko's won't do it, but some small local shops might |
| 03:25.59 | MonMotha | basicaly just name your target price and give them a month or something |
| 03:26.03 | MonMotha | you'd be amazed what they'll do |
| 03:26.13 | MonMotha | they'll basicaly just run it when they aren't otherwise doing anything |
| 03:26.20 | Madsy | Hm, I'll give it a shot. |
| 03:29.38 | MonMotha | there are PCB makers who do the same thing |
| 03:29.51 | MonMotha | basically, it's a way to make "some" money when they'd otherwise making "none" |
| 03:30.27 | Madsy | Makes sense. |
| 03:33.28 | ds2 | Hmmm |
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| 04:09.56 | ds2 | \ |
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| 06:39.48 | methril | morning |
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| 11:30.14 | g1powermac | morning prpplague |
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| 13:09.34 | RobotGuy | Greetings Programs |
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| 13:25.15 | solar | and humans |
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| 14:08.25 | solar | prpplague: the piezo on the Nail can be used as an input device as well? If so. Any supporting code written to take advantage of it? |
| 14:08.45 | prpplague | solar: sorry no, its only connected via the PWM |
| 14:08.58 | prpplague | solar: but you could configure a mic to be used with the ADC |
| 14:09.35 | solar | hrmm. Cuz I'm reading up on PWM controled piezo's now and it say they can be used to detect tons as well as make them |
| 14:09.53 | solar | s/tons/tones/ |
| 14:12.35 | prpplague | solar: hmm, that might be possible, but i'd still think it would need to be connected to the adc, i'll check into it after todays engineering meeting |
| 14:15.50 | solar | fyi. I had no interesting in hooking up a mic. Was more just wondering about the Nail and if there was some additional functionality scripts I could write to take advantage of the default hardware to it's fullest. I'm using a USB sound card with the Nail myself for extended functionality. It has input/outputs and makes life easy there. |
| 14:17.06 | prpplague | solar: ahh ok, i'll check into that, i've never run across that usage with piezo's before, but i'll look |
| 14:17.37 | solar | me either till I just ran across http://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/PlayMelody |
| 14:18.42 | prpplague | looks |
| 14:22.55 | prpplague | solar: i've not had my coffee yet this morning, and i'm not seeing any references to tone detection |
| 14:23.28 | prpplague | solar: only the short reference in the main text |
| 14:23.41 | solar | "A Piezo is nothing but an electronic device that can both be used to play tones and to detect tones. " <-- just that. |
| 14:24.16 | solar | but hey no matter. It's kinda a junk part. Get some coffee |
| 14:24.58 | prpplague | solar: i suspect that in order to detect the tone, you need to have it wired to the ADC |
| 14:25.04 | prpplague | solar: i'll do some more digging |
| 14:25.34 | solar | coffee tastes much better than dirt from digging |
| 14:26.48 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:27.37 | prpplague | yea, most of the references i'm seeing are using ADC |
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| 14:44.52 | RobotGuy | I want to connect up a couple small mics to the ADCs. |
| 14:48.11 | RobotGuy | I can't really figure out any other good use for just two ADCs except for power supply voltage monitoring. |
| 14:54.42 | MothaWork | prpplague: good morning |
| 15:37.29 | prpplague | MonMotha: greetings |
| 15:37.58 | RobotGuy | almost has his Arduino ready to connect to Hammer. |
| 15:38.31 | RobotGuy | I wish I had ordered the small breadboard with my Proto Shield kit though. |
| 15:39.34 | solar | RobotGuy: for what you do. Having a fullsize one would be much better. I've only got 3 small things hooked up and I'm pretty much out of space. |
| 15:40.00 | solar | cuz not having the power bars running up the side kind makes it a pita. |
| 15:40.46 | RobotGuy | solar: I can always just jumper over to my huge Global Specialties proto board. :) That sort of defeats the purpose of the proto shield though. |
| 15:41.31 | solar | : true |
| 15:42.02 | RobotGuy | I'm going to connect my 3 axis accelerometer to Arduino. |
| 15:45.27 | solar | cool |
| 15:47.36 | RobotGuy | It will be cool experimenting with the accelerometer. :) And then I can get it to talk to Hammer. :) |
| 15:48.27 | RobotGuy | I am very excited about the possibilities for Arduino and Hammer. I see a few howtos coming as I tinker. :) |
| 15:49.15 | RobotGuy | I got the sources for the BlinkM Sequencer also. :) |
| 15:49.34 | RobotGuy | I want to see if I can program them from Hammer. |
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| 15:59.12 | solar | you should. I got avrdude to cross compile fine. I've just not put it in the hammer yet |
| 16:00.43 | RobotGuy | solar: lnteresting! I was not considering programming them like that. |
| 16:01.44 | RobotGuy | I need to work on my main PC. Working on my server is a bit of a PITA. |
| 16:11.29 | prpplague | solar: oh wow you have avrdude cross compiled? |
| 16:11.35 | prpplague | solar: i was wondering about that |
| 16:15.20 | solar | yep. No problems at all. |
| 16:16.43 | prpplague | nice, have tried programming an avr via the hammer yet? |
| 16:21.16 | solar | nope. I'm still getting to know the env in general. And my nail would be limited to only uploading the .hex files vs doing the whole toolchain part |
| 16:21.48 | solar | but I was more thinking to maybe tie in via wifi the ability to upload them there so things could be reflashed on the avr rather quickly to suit the need |
| 16:21.57 | solar | not really sure what my end goal is yet :) |
| 16:22.18 | solar | I just build stuff and try to make sure it works for others |
| 16:24.55 | prpplague | solar: alot of companies use avr's for small decoding, such as for keyboard matrix |
| 16:25.14 | prpplague | solar: it would be nice to be able to upgrade the firmware for those without disassembling the device |
| 16:26.26 | solar | a big thing for those guys seems to be programming the bootloader. ICSP i think. |
| 16:26.50 | solar | I don't know much about it other than you can spend a good chunk of change or try to DYI |
| 16:26.55 | solar | DIY |
| 16:27.31 | prpplague | solar: spend money on what? the actual hardware to do the programming? |
| 16:27.50 | solar | some hardware programmer for them. |
| 16:28.32 | prpplague | solar: that seems odd, since most avrs have jtag, and all have the ISP interface |
| 16:28.33 | solar | hrmm does not look that spendy really |
| 16:29.01 | prpplague | solar: the ISP interface is just a form of SPI, you could even using the flyswatter to do the programming |
| 16:29.25 | solar | ha very cool :) |
| 16:31.12 | RobotGuy | Oh, cooL! |
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| 17:24.02 | MothaWork | yeah, if you only need to put code on an AVR, there should never be a reason you have to buy a programmer (EOL tiny11 notwithstanding) |
| 17:24.14 | MothaWork | now, if you want to debug it, you'll need some extra hardware |
| 17:31.13 | MothaWork | prpplague: I looked in our code, the vbus GPIO is mapped in our BSP |
| 17:31.24 | MothaWork | so I'm not sure why it hard locks when I load the gadget serial module |
| 17:31.43 | MothaWork | only locks up if I load it with the ACM option, not just the plain simple mode (that is only compatible with Linux) |
| 17:31.43 | prpplague | MonMotha: so its locking when you load the module? |
| 17:31.53 | prpplague | MothaWork: ahh |
| 17:32.11 | MothaWork | so could be a bug in the UDC driver for the AT91 not supporting things like alt interfaces or whatever |
| 17:32.20 | MothaWork | I think the hardware supports that |
| 17:32.27 | MothaWork | it was a hard lock, though, no oops |
| 17:32.41 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea the CDC-ACM uses a whole different set of options than the generic one for linux |
| 17:32.55 | prpplague | MothaWork: we had similiar issues with the s3c2410 and serial gadget driver |
| 17:33.14 | MothaWork | USB is such a mess... |
| 17:33.29 | MothaWork | probably because it was built to almost perfectly conform to the Windows Driver Model |
| 17:33.32 | MothaWork | which is, well, a mess |
| 17:36.18 | prpplague | indeed |
| 17:36.46 | prpplague | MonMotha: i've had to tweak the cdc-acm code for the s3c24xx serveral times |
| 17:38.24 | g1powermac | heya prpplague |
| 17:38.34 | prpplague | g1powermac: hey |
| 17:42.55 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Boo! |
| 17:44.27 | g1powermac | http://cgi.ebay.com/Huge-Lot-46-Vintage-BYTE-PC-Magazine-1980-1997-Lotus_W0QQitemZ280254269998QQihZ018QQcategoryZ4193QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 17:44.30 | g1powermac | hmm :-) |
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| 17:45.30 | MothaWork | prpplague: I see |
| 17:45.38 | chouimat|work | g1powermac: :) |
| 17:45.42 | MothaWork | well, it's not pressing now, but it would be nice |
| 17:45.57 | MothaWork | we've got USB host ports right next to it, so our solution now is to just plug in a USB to serial adapter :) |
| 17:46.05 | MothaWork | would be nice to get rid of that requirement, though |
| 17:46.19 | prpplague | yea, understood |
| 17:46.31 | prpplague | we've been back and forth with that ourselves |
| 17:47.36 | prpplague | MonMotha: you are loading the module with the usb port connected to a windows box? |
| 17:48.40 | MothaWork | I think it may have been connected to a Linux box when I loaded it |
| 17:48.43 | MothaWork | but certainly not Windows |
| 17:50.13 | prpplague | MonMotha: ahh ok |
| 17:50.26 | prpplague | MonMotha: might try loading it without being plugged in |
| 17:50.43 | MothaWork | I figured that |
| 17:50.45 | prpplague | MonMotha: the linux based serial driver isn't compatible with the cdc-acm |
| 17:50.48 | MothaWork | though either way it's a bug |
| 17:51.11 | MothaWork | prpplague: well, I was loading it up in preparation for hooking it up to a Windows machine, but I hadn't moved the cable yet |
| 17:51.14 | prpplague | MonMotha: it may have tried to use the linux generic driver with the acm interface, which will cause a lockup |
| 17:51.41 | MothaWork | as in the Linux host would lock up the device? |
| 17:51.45 | MothaWork | that seems suboptimal |
| 17:52.06 | prpplague | MonMotha: yea |
| 17:52.10 | prpplague | MonMotha: very |
| 18:05.56 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 18:06.00 | prpplague | got a dma issue |
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| 18:15.22 | prpplague | hates debugging dma stuff |
| 18:26.16 | prpplague | hehe landley reposted his perl removal patch |
| 18:26.45 | solar | for what? basic toolchain stuff? |
| 18:27.55 | prpplague | solar: remove the perl requirement for building >2.6.25 kernels |
| 18:28.16 | prpplague | solar: he posted to the embedded linux mailing list |
| 18:30.23 | solar | ahh. seems like good patch. and bad upstream. |
| 18:30.37 | solar | good idea for a patch rather. Not seen his code |
| 18:31.30 | prpplague | solar: it is usually pretty darn good |
| 18:33.40 | solar | 2.6.x ? |
| 18:33.50 | MothaWork | >2.6.25 requires perl to build? |
| 18:33.55 | MothaWork | what were they smoking? |
| 18:34.17 | solar | I don't have very many nice things to say about whats happening in the kernel >2.4 |
| 18:34.49 | prpplague | solar: http://lwn.net/Articles/293337/ |
| 18:36.58 | solar | I don't have an LWN account but cool to see them mention ya twice |
| 18:37.18 | solar | The header kinda jumps right into the talking book. |
| 18:38.14 | prpplague | solar: hehe, jumps to this article - http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/080808-linux-garage.html?page=1 |
| 18:38.39 | solar | I talked with that guy at OSCON. There is one fundamental flaw in it. It's designed for 3rd world. But runs on std batterys. Ideal would of been a small solar $2 cell to a recharagable 9V or other battery. |
| 18:38.56 | prpplague | ahh interesting |
| 18:40.01 | solar | I don't dont think we will see alot of the pink bunny in the 3rd world. |
| 18:41.22 | prpplague | hehe |
| 18:44.16 | RobotGuy | Wow, Rusty mentioned robotics in that artical. :) |
| 18:44.18 | solar | was not impressed by trango at all. They are the glue between cell providers and that almost cozy feeling of being semi opensource |
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| 18:48.57 | RobotGuy | thinks about what to do next. |
| 18:50.51 | solar | make it |
| 18:51.20 | RobotGuy | Make what? |
| 18:58.11 | solar | Something with your Hammer/Nail/Boards/Parts... Ideas.. http://blog.makezine.com/archive/arduino |
| 19:03.45 | prpplague | solar: i can't seem to find the time to document my vtech laptop conversion |
| 19:03.53 | prpplague | solar: i really want to do that one |
| 19:10.51 | g1powermac | needs to get back to hacking his zipit |
| 19:11.32 | g1powermac | need to figure out the weird stuff with usb gadget |
| 19:11.58 | g1powermac | prpplague, were you able to look into that this past week? |
| 19:12.18 | prpplague | g1powermac: no i've been swampped with the 8050 stuff |
| 19:12.24 | g1powermac | alrighty |
| 19:13.07 | RobotGuy | solar: I got this book called "Robot Builder's Bonanza" |
| 19:15.00 | g1powermac | needs to crack open his mac classic II |
| 19:15.53 | RobotGuy | is affraid to just tinker with a Hammer right now. |
| 19:17.24 | solar | prpplague: I'm not aware of any vtech conversion. Whats vtech in this case? |
| 19:17.48 | prpplague | solar: vtech makes a bunch of kids laptops |
| 19:17.53 | prpplague | solar: usually about $50 |
| 19:18.01 | solar | arm chip inside? |
| 19:18.08 | prpplague | solar: i've converted a few of them over to use the hammer inside |
| 19:18.14 | prpplague | solar: naw, mostly 8051 |
| 19:18.42 | chouimat|work | prpplague: nice :) |
| 19:18.53 | solar | hammer inside? But not TCT hammer? $50 bucks? |
| 19:19.11 | solar | wonders if prpplague already started drinking for the evening |
| 19:19.23 | prpplague | solar: tct-hammer ($150) + vtech case ($50) |
| 19:19.35 | chouimat|work | solar: I think he managed to get his boss to hook him on a beer IV |
| 19:19.50 | prpplague | hehe |
| 19:19.56 | solar | Now I'm starting to understand |
| 19:20.37 | solar | Yeah TCT products really needs a little bit of a polish via a housing |
| 19:20.51 | prpplague | http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3933917 |
| 19:22.14 | solar | Ahh. pics are worth a thousand words |
| 19:22.23 | prpplague | hehe |
| 19:23.27 | solar | so was just testing output. I'm getting 20.6-23 DC @ 85mA from another solar panel |
| 19:23.34 | RobotGuy | That's actually a pretty nice looking little unit. |
| 19:24.13 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Was the conversion mainly just interfacing Hammer to the hardware of the unit? |
| 19:24.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea |
| 19:24.47 | RobotGuy | I'd really rather see an S3C2440A in a unit like that. |
| 19:25.00 | solar | comeon. Give him some credit. |
| 19:25.20 | g1powermac | meh, I need to get a non magnetic bit extender to crack open the classic |
| 19:25.23 | solar | of course you/everybody would want a lappy with more resources :) |
| 19:25.32 | RobotGuy | solar: I do give him lots of credit. He does real cool stuff and that conversion is one. |
| 19:25.48 | RobotGuy | I was just stating my personal preference. |
| 19:26.30 | solar | at those prices he could nearly give the OLPC a run for the $$ |
| 19:26.31 | RobotGuy | A converted unit like that Vtech would probably work real well for me to take along. |
| 19:26.58 | RobotGuy | Yes, indeed. I don't like the XO packaging too much and the keyboard sucks. |
| 19:27.02 | solar | think of it as a big PDA |
| 19:27.11 | solar | vs a small lappy :) |
| 19:27.29 | RobotGuy | A big PDA would suit me fine for a lot of stuff. |
| 19:27.58 | g1powermac | prpplague, hmm, is that 8051 in the vtech modifiable? |
| 19:28.09 | prpplague | g1powermac: naw its CoB |
| 19:28.09 | RobotGuy | I didn't mean to take anything away from what prpplague does with stuff. |
| 19:28.15 | g1powermac | aww |
| 19:28.15 | solar | With a small USB hub inside you can add extras I'd think. |
| 19:28.30 | g1powermac | hates CoB |
| 19:28.39 | prpplague | solar: yea, i can get a similiar Vtech case without the electronics for $16.00 in bulk |
| 19:28.46 | g1powermac | its the scurge of hackers ;-) |
| 19:29.13 | prpplague | solar: yea the keyboard matrix is a usb keyboard matrix chip |
| 19:29.27 | prpplague | solar: everything is basically usb devices |
| 19:29.32 | MothaWork | I actually quite like the OLPC enclosure |
| 19:29.34 | MothaWork | it seems pretty solid |
| 19:29.40 | MothaWork | hell, it has a handle |
| 19:30.17 | solar | prpplague: whats the size on that in real life? About the same as a EEPC/OLPC/MiniMac ? |
| 19:30.35 | RobotGuy | I just don't have much confidence when dealing with hammer stuff right now. |
| 19:30.51 | prpplague | solar: it's just a little smaller than a standard dell laptop |
| 19:31.05 | prpplague | solar: next time you are at wal-mart have a look |
| 19:31.13 | RobotGuy | I could probably just about fit one in the back pouch of my chair. |
| 19:31.17 | g1powermac | has an original mac mini sitting on my desk to the right of me ;-) |
| 19:31.52 | g1powermac | and its really annoying that I can't open it |
| 19:31.55 | solar | sends RobotGuy a prescription for happy pills. |
| 19:31.58 | RobotGuy | I saw a Mac mini and they look pretty cool - just a little plastic box with not much you can see. |
| 19:32.14 | solar | prpplague: never there really. But if it's worth picking up I'll go grab one. |
| 19:32.23 | RobotGuy | I'm happy. Just don't have much confidence. |
| 19:32.25 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, my mom owns a real mac mini |
| 19:32.34 | solar | needs to hit radioshack for something or another |
| 19:32.38 | g1powermac | they're quite nice little machines |
| 19:32.49 | RobotGuy | solar: Did you get any CdS cells? |
| 19:33.02 | g1powermac | solar, pick me up a 3.6v 1/2AA battery for me and a non magnetic bit extender :-) |
| 19:33.33 | solar | you mean a little plastic case? |
| 19:33.45 | solar | oh n/m two product |
| 19:35.23 | solar | Best I can tell is I need a 1N4001 diode and a 100uf & 10V capacitor for solar charging of a 9V |
| 19:36.05 | g1powermac | prolly has that cap and diode here. . . |
| 19:36.38 | prpplague | solar: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8352192970.html |
| 19:36.47 | prpplague | solar: the case design is an open platform |
| 19:37.11 | g1powermac | prpplague, interesting |
| 19:38.19 | solar | I don't have a RepRap. So making the plastic parts might be a pita |
| 19:38.42 | solar | thats a project I'd love to dive into at some point |
| 19:38.44 | prpplague | solar: sorry i meant, that if we wanted to, we could use that design and get a tool made |
| 19:39.20 | g1powermac | prpplague, that'd be quite interesting |
| 19:39.26 | g1powermac | I'd love to work on something like that |
| 19:39.26 | prpplague | indeed |
| 19:39.51 | solar | for TCT? Might not be a bad idea if you can offer a sub $300 market |
| 19:40.12 | solar | I actually find it quite amazing what kind of hit you must take on the NailKit vs the Hammer alone |
| 19:40.49 | prpplague | solar: yea it works out better for us to sell a kit, where they have everything to start with |
| 19:41.21 | prpplague | solar: we pretty much only sell the hammer by itself to customers purchasing 50 or more at a time |
| 19:41.33 | RobotGuy | Is it correct that I could plug a 6V - 7.2V NiMH battery pack right into Arduino using the power jack? |
| 19:41.45 | g1powermac | would buy a hammer buy itself. .. |
| 19:41.49 | prpplague | solar: not that we wouldn't sell it one at a time, just that we've not had anyone order it like that |
| 19:42.01 | g1powermac | combine it with a craignell |
| 19:42.39 | g1powermac | make a daughter card out of both of them and then eventually buy a load of them to play with parallel processing stuff |
| 19:42.57 | solar | RobotGuy: you only need 5V afaik. The 9V just steps it down. |
| 19:43.28 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Something like the Hammer-RDP perhaps? I've put a bit of info about it on the Wiki. |
| 19:43.33 | solar | it's a forgiving devive also. Something of taking as little as 4.2 and up to 16 |
| 19:44.19 | g1powermac | sorta |
| 19:44.24 | RobotGuy | I just found a 4 AA cell battery holder.. |
| 19:44.29 | g1powermac | but its got to have a craignell on it |
| 19:44.37 | RobotGuy | craignell? |
| 19:44.44 | solar | prpplague: If any of your customers would allow it. I'd suggest that TCT put up a page on "Products featuring the Hammer" |
| 19:44.47 | g1powermac | http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/component_replacements/craignell.html |
| 19:45.14 | prpplague | solar: yea, we've not got any that will go on the record |
| 19:46.32 | solar | Yeah. To do that. You often have to give them such insane discounts that it's pays for itself via marketing/PR. |
| 19:46.52 | prpplague | lordy lordy, i'm throwing darts in the dark on this codec issue :( |
| 19:47.04 | solar | ppl are alot more willing when they hear the words discount. But at 50+ I'm sure they get bulk rates anyway |
| 19:47.22 | g1powermac | prpplague, still having issues with the codec? |
| 19:47.42 | prpplague | g1powermac: yea, the main portion is working and communicating |
| 19:48.07 | prpplague | g1powermac: getting a problem where the first 500-750ms of the audio is repeated |
| 19:48.16 | prpplague | g1powermac: giving it a hiccup at the beginning of playback |
| 19:48.18 | g1powermac | oh fun |
| 19:48.54 | RobotGuy | Hammer + FPGA would be very cool. |
| 19:50.05 | RobotGuy | I would if I ever actually get anything working. |
| 19:50.28 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, heh, don't feel bad, I blew up my powerbook yesterday ;-) |
| 19:51.11 | RobotGuy | I guess I am the only person to ever have borked a Hammer. |
| 19:51.18 | RobotGuy | Not one, but two of them. |
| 19:51.40 | RobotGuy | I still don't think the second one was my fault. |
| 19:52.56 | solar | all the happiness is rubbing off on me. Cheer up and make stuff work. You can. It's a nice day. Weekend is here. Time to get into full coder mode |
| 19:53.33 | prpplague | throws bottles of prozac and wellbutrin in the crowd at #edev |
| 19:53.46 | kergoth`work | whee |
| 19:54.08 | g1powermac | feeds some to his crazy puppy ;-) |
| 19:54.43 | prpplague | darn, i'm burnt out this week |
| 19:54.53 | prpplague | and i still don't have this codec 100% |
| 19:55.26 | solar | deadline of before you can leave the office today? |
| 19:55.57 | prpplague | solar: naw, just my own mental deadline |
| 19:56.09 | prpplague | solar: i was hoping to have this complete by today |
| 19:56.19 | prpplague | solar: its going to push my schedule back |
| 19:56.20 | g1powermac | prpplague, is the codec the last piece? |
| 19:56.30 | prpplague | g1powermac: last major piece |
| 19:56.36 | g1powermac | cool, cool |
| 19:57.12 | prpplague | is on codec interace data overload |
| 19:57.18 | prpplague | interface even |
| 19:57.57 | prpplague | solar: when i start working with a new interface that i've not worked with before, i tend to submerge myself in all the aspects of the operation |
| 19:57.59 | solar | ahh don't listen to me then. I was going to suggest going home. Just getting smashed enough to not be a baddad. |
| 19:58.05 | solar | and unwinding |
| 19:58.07 | g1powermac | is still trying to figure out why mac os has to boot first before booting linux or netbsd on these old macs. . . |
| 19:58.09 | prpplague | solar: problem is you get info overload by the end of the week |
| 19:58.32 | solar | I no longer work from the office on fridays |
| 19:58.43 | prpplague | solar: hehe, well i'll have some good beer tonight, and do some grillin |
| 19:58.44 | solar | and I get so much more done in the day |
| 19:58.49 | g1powermac | prpplague, thats exactly what I do if I can keep myself concentrated on a single problem |
| 19:59.05 | prpplague | solar: i think we got some turkey legs grill, hehe |
| 19:59.19 | g1powermac | which tends to be really bad, as I'll think about the problem day and night till I get it working |
| 19:59.36 | prpplague | solar: normally i keep friday as my "idea day" |
| 19:59.45 | solar | grilling is always a win. |
| 19:59.52 | prpplague | solar: just play "what if" and "maybe if" all day |
| 20:00.27 | solar | come thursday any problems get pushed back till next tuesday :) |
| 20:00.33 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:00.39 | g1powermac | heh |
| 20:00.49 | prpplague | solar: you california poeple |
| 20:00.53 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:01.37 | solar | It's more like I don't take on projects at the end of the week. And I allow myself monday for any built up problems/updates that have to be taken care of first thing mondays |
| 20:01.46 | *** join/#edev frikker (n=blaine@107.135.68.216.DED-DSL.fuse.net) |
| 20:02.17 | solar | then follow up on projects for the rest of the week while doing the day to day grind |
| 20:02.44 | prpplague | solar: ahh good plan |
| 20:05.42 | prpplague | solar: i also get real bad depression after a project completion |
| 20:05.43 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_PB (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 20:06.22 | RobotGuy | I must get that too. |
| 20:06.24 | solar | Thats kinda of an odd thing to happen. |
| 20:06.37 | solar | Any idea of the cause? Does it cause you to delay it's ending? |
| 20:07.04 | prpplague | solar: after going full steam on a project for 60 or 90 days, and suddenly you don't have any "puzzles" to entertain your mind |
| 20:07.17 | prpplague | solar: naw, its never caused me to delay anything |
| 20:07.28 | prpplague | solar: a number of other professional developers i know get it as well |
| 20:07.29 | RobotGuy | Yeah, sort of. I took way longer than necessary to build my proto shield. |
| 20:07.56 | solar | Taxes cause me stress. Lots of it. For the life of me I can't fill out those forms. |
| 20:08.08 | prpplague | solar: don't get me started on that |
| 20:08.13 | prpplague | solar: i pay H&R block |
| 20:08.26 | solar | so every year I try to find/keep a GF around that time. Or I'm late and the IRS comes after me later |
| 20:08.42 | chouimat|work | g1powermac because the boot loader is a mac os application iirc |
| 20:08.55 | prpplague | solar: hehe |
| 20:09.14 | RobotGuy | has no girlfriend |
| 20:09.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hence your ability to purchase lots of electronics and gadgets |
| 20:09.51 | solar | they took $1600 from me this year. Never gave me a refund so another few grand down the drain. State wanted a few hundred more. |
| 20:09.55 | g1powermac_PB | chouimat|work: then why hasn't anyone made a bootloader? |
| 20:10.05 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Not really. I always have to sacrifice something to get that sort of stuff. |
| 20:10.06 | solar | Oddly I don't get bothered about state taxes. Only Fed ones |
| 20:10.12 | chouimat|work | g1powermac_PB: don't know |
| 20:10.20 | g1powermac_PB | its weird if you ask me |
| 20:10.56 | prpplague | solar: yea, we always have to battler with my wife's ex about putting my stepdaughter on our taxes |
| 20:11.02 | prpplague | solar: its a battle every year |
| 20:11.03 | solar | prpplague: don't worry about getting drepressed this time around. I've got all sorts of ways to keep your mind busy hacking :) |
| 20:11.07 | chouimat|work | RobotGuy: I don't have a GF, but I'm slowly working on this |
| 20:11.28 | solar | prpplague: ahh right you mentioned how much of a winner he was before. |
| 20:11.30 | RobotGuy | chouimat|work: Good luck with that. |
| 20:11.34 | prpplague | solar: and then when we were exiled out of the country, i thought it was just insane that they put extra taxes on you |
| 20:11.38 | g1powermac_PB | ya |
| 20:11.56 | chouimat|work | RobotGuy: I currently have 2 prospects so it's going well :) |
| 20:11.56 | solar | exiled out of the country? USA? |
| 20:12.18 | RobotGuy | chouimat|work: Two more than me. |
| 20:12.22 | prpplague | solar: yea, i live in barbados for 3 years while we waited for a green card for my wife(she's from barbados) |
| 20:12.37 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: same here |
| 20:13.02 | prpplague | solar: if you are paid in the US for work, but live outside the country, they charge you some extra taxes for taking money out of the US economy |
| 20:13.05 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: but I do have a very cute puppy that attracts almost every female from a mile radius ;-) |
| 20:13.44 | prpplague | solar: took use 3 years 8 months and 24 days to get a PR visa for my wife |
| 20:13.56 | g1powermac_PB | though 99.9% of the females in this state are, well, not for me :-) |
| 20:14.08 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: hehe, indeed |
| 20:14.23 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: Puppies are great for that. I have a kitty that is affraid of everyone except me. |
| 20:14.25 | solar | can find a use for a large percent |
| 20:14.26 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: the sheep are probably more viable spouses that the women there |
| 20:14.28 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: they need to be out of state :-) |
| 20:14.45 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: hehe |
| 20:14.56 | prpplague | solar: you don't want the ones from either texas or kentucky |
| 20:15.18 | prpplague | solar: don't get me started on immigration, i'll rant all day |
| 20:15.45 | solar | fat/ulgy/etc dont matter. My house gets messy just the same and I'll pay others to clean it. But I don't trust men in my house while I'm not here |
| 20:15.48 | chouimat|work | gives some prozac to prpplague |
| 20:16.05 | g1powermac_PB | solar: hah |
| 20:16.09 | prpplague | solar: hehe |
| 20:16.18 | g1powermac_PB | solar: well, you don't want to trust the women here either |
| 20:16.34 | RobotGuy | Why are KY and TX women so bad? |
| 20:16.57 | solar | 34 and semi-single. I have trust problems :) |
| 20:17.04 | g1powermac_PB | really, if you're unfortunate enough to be born here in this state, you don't want to trust your own family |
| 20:17.35 | g1powermac_PB | I've heard soo many stories about parents destroying the child's credit and such |
| 20:17.42 | RobotGuy | I have a feeling SC is the same way. |
| 20:17.51 | g1powermac_PB | minus any actual family issues |
| 20:18.23 | prpplague | solar: hehe, my wife has like 10^50 cousins we can hook you up with |
| 20:18.31 | solar | cool. Just got a call from work. I just got a shipment of a 100 magnets, 20 IR leds, and a proper solar charger |
| 20:18.38 | prpplague | solar: her family is like that movie "my big fat greek wedding" |
| 20:19.15 | solar | funny thing about greek ppl.. Nothing in life is better than beinjg greek. |
| 20:19.22 | solar | seems quite a happy culture |
| 20:19.45 | RobotGuy | I was going to move to GA about 4 years ago and live with people I -thought- were my friends. They weren't. :( |
| 20:20.03 | solar | RobotGuy: GA is.. Stay west++ |
| 20:20.12 | RobotGuy | Ended up in SC for four months. |
| 20:20.44 | RobotGuy | I should have came back to Oregon when I was first considering it. |
| 20:21.03 | RobotGuy | About two weeks after I got to GA. |
| 20:21.57 | prpplague | solar: hehe, i can say that is generally the attitude on just about every island in the bahamas and caribean |
| 20:22.01 | solar | life experiences are good however even if the trip was not what you had planned. Can turn most thing around |
| 20:22.23 | solar | prpplague: were you treated as an outsider? |
| 20:22.49 | RobotGuy | Yeah, I turned around and came back to Oregon, leaving all but the clothes on my back and my phone behind. |
| 20:23.00 | g1powermac_PB | solar: it all depends on how you respond to such life experience |
| 20:23.03 | solar | RobotGuy: haha good one :) |
| 20:23.14 | prpplague | solar: not too badly, did get some prejidice from some of the dark skin folks, but nothing too bad |
| 20:23.31 | prpplague | points out that dijenerate is a linux developer from barbados |
| 20:23.37 | RobotGuy | I'm serious, that's exactly what I did. |
| 20:24.10 | solar | Hows textas in that respect? From an outsider view there seems to be alot of tention over borders |
| 20:24.12 | prpplague | solar: used to get some of the stuff you hear african-americans talk about they had in the 60/70/80's |
| 20:24.31 | prpplague | solar: only if you are in the US illegally |
| 20:25.08 | prpplague | solar: have zero problems if you are here legally |
| 20:25.34 | solar | prpplague: yeah thats my undertstanding of the US islands (hawaii etc).. |
| 20:25.38 | prpplague | solar: problem is that doing it legally is so expensive and time consuming, most people give up and just do it illegally |
| 20:25.57 | RobotGuy | It should be the opposite. |
| 20:26.25 | prpplague | yea, and most people still think if you marry a US citizen that you automatically get a green card |
| 20:26.51 | solar | it's not that way anymore? Sadly I thought so till about 2 sec ago |
| 20:28.01 | solar | I know there is a wait. But I thought it could not be denied unless there are other reasons. (intl felons etc) |
| 20:28.48 | MothaWork | solar: I think "arbitrary" is a good way to describe the US immigration criteria |
| 20:28.52 | prpplague | solar: hasn't been that way since 1955 |
| 20:28.59 | MothaWork | especially for long-term residency |
| 20:29.55 | prpplague | solar: average wait right now for a spouse who is married to a US citizen to come to the US legally is about 3 years |
| 20:31.01 | solar | yeah. The US kicked out one of our partners. Did not extend his H1 visa. 30+ mil a year company. He co-employeed nearly 100 ppl and paid lots of US taxes. |
| 20:31.12 | prpplague | solar: about 75% of the US citizens just go and live overseas until the paperwork is complete, then move back |
| 20:31.19 | solar | arbitrary for sure seems a good term |
| 20:33.06 | prpplague | solar: yea, there is an estimated(depends on who you talk to) 12million illegals in the US, and the current estimate is that about 2.5million of those are married to US citizens |
| 20:33.12 | solar | prpplague: friend of mine from france started trying to get his last march and just got approved this week. He said they paid to have it prioritized. No idea how much that costed however. But might of been an option before.. |
| 20:33.47 | solar | last march of 07 that is. |
| 20:33.54 | RobotGuy | It must be the "Expedited Service" option |
| 20:34.02 | solar | ya |
| 20:34.21 | prpplague | solar: what type of visa? |
| 20:35.04 | prpplague | solar: i'm thinking its probably not standard PR visa |
| 20:35.40 | prpplague | solar: he going to school or some other work program? |
| 20:36.43 | prpplague | solar: if you are bored one day, have a look at some of the horror stories on http://visajourney.com/ |
| 20:37.10 | solar | work afaik. |
| 20:37.21 | prpplague | solar: np |
| 20:38.48 | prpplague | solar: yea, most of the work visas are pretty easy to get |
| 20:38.48 | prpplague | solar: because they are limited |
| 20:38.48 | prpplague | solar: spousal PR visa is basically unconditional |
| 20:38.48 | prpplague | solar: so they really really really put you through the hoops |
| 20:39.04 | prpplague | solar: plus they have a lot of silly regulations |
| 20:39.23 | solar | ya. I'm sure she knows more about our history than you do now :p |
| 20:39.27 | prpplague | solar: like for instance, you have to include finger prints and passport style photos with your application |
| 20:39.42 | prpplague | solar: problem is they are only "good" for 6 months |
| 20:39.56 | prpplague | solar: and most of the time your paperwork never gets looked at before they expire |
| 20:40.27 | solar | there are a bunch of four letter words that would come to mind if I had to deal with that |
| 20:41.05 | prpplague | solar: sooo. you have to send in new photos and fingerprints before they even get looked at |
| 20:41.05 | prpplague | solar: they also change the forms every quarter |
| 20:41.05 | chouimat|work | prpplague: solar I have a 6 letters word to fix that kind of problems: Canada ;) |
| 20:41.12 | prpplague | solar: and when they change the forms, the old form is no longer acceptable, from the day the new form is available |
| 20:42.25 | solar | that sounds like it's designed to keep ppl out |
| 20:42.26 | prpplague | chouimat|work: hehe |
| 20:42.51 | solar | Did you two meet while on vacation? If so.. probably the last time you will ever take a vacation. |
| 20:43.31 | prpplague | hehe, naw, i was there working, my previous employer |
| 20:43.49 | prpplague | solar: the bahamas and caribean were my service area |
| 20:44.41 | prpplague | been to jsut about every island in the region |
| 20:45.10 | chouimat|work | prpplague: http://failblog.org/2008/08/08/extermination-fail/ |
| 20:54.53 | prpplague | chouimat|work: yea see 44 is too much, a good 22 or 25 is more fun for that sized target |
| 20:55.17 | solar | prpplague: what happens if you have a kid while out of the country? Would that delay things even more? |
| 20:56.27 | prpplague | solar: generally no, the kid is a US citizen by birth |
| 20:56.27 | prpplague | solar: both our kids are US citizens |
| 20:56.27 | prpplague | solar: so, it really doesn't help or hurt, pretty much a non-factor |
| 21:08.27 | *** join/#edev Chocobo (n=swinchen@strongbad.eece.maine.edu) |
| 21:10.19 | prpplague | solar: canada has a immigration treaty with barbados, my wife and i could have become legal residents of canada in just 30 days |
| 21:11.17 | chouimat|work | prpplague: there is something called commonwealth iirc ;) |
| 21:11.28 | prpplague | chouimat|work: ?? |
| 21:11.37 | chouimat|work | nm |
| 21:11.55 | prpplague | chouimat|work: ?? |
| 21:12.05 | prpplague | chouimat|work: what are you refering to? |
| 21:12.11 | prpplague | is curious |
| 21:12.23 | ds2 | for 'em folks who where too afraid to kick HM's behind? |
| 21:12.32 | ds2 | s/where/were/ |
| 21:12.54 | chouimat|work | ds2: :) |
| 21:13.38 | prpplague | chouimat|work: ahh former protectorets(sp?) of great britain |
| 21:14.02 | prpplague | chouimat|work: i thought it was specific between barbados and canada |
| 21:15.09 | prpplague | solar: generally speaking, if you are fair skined, come from an english speaking country, and are educated, you will have a very very hard time getting PR visa |
| 21:16.00 | prpplague | solar: and USCIS isn't bashful about telling you so |
| 21:16.18 | chouimat|work | prpplague: it might be a specific thing too |
| 21:16.29 | prpplague | chouimat|work: ahh ok |
| 21:16.46 | prpplague | chouimat|work: lots of bajans in toronto and ottawa |
| 21:16.52 | ds2 | prpplague: did you just mention it only takes 30 days for a US citizen to become a canadian citizen? |
| 21:17.11 | chouimat|work | ds2: citizenship take a little more time |
| 21:17.33 | ds2 | choimat|work: but what about just permission to work and live? |
| 21:17.41 | chouimat|work | 30 days iirc |
| 21:18.03 | solar | I lied when I said I don't take on new projects fridays. It seems every friday is towards the end of the day you get a project dumped on ya that has to be out to the client before the end of the day or by monday |
| 21:18.13 | prpplague | ds2: no, i said 30 days for a US citizen who is married to a barbadian to get PR status in canada |
| 21:18.25 | chouimat|work | and because of nafta it think is relatively quick for US citizen if you haev a job waiting for you in canada |
| 21:18.26 | ds2 | prpplague: gotcha |
| 21:19.20 | ds2 | and once you get a job, you are obligated to pay 99.99999% of it back to the Canadian gov't as taxes? |
| 21:19.50 | chouimat|work | ds2: it's not that bad. for me it's about 33 to 35% |
| 21:20.09 | chouimat|work | ds2: it's a little higher in Quebec (38 to 45%) |
| 21:20.41 | ds2 | chouimant|work: I see... but how long do you have to be working before the benefits kick in? |
| 21:21.30 | prpplague | solar: now see, it only took me 2 weeks to become a Barbados citizen |
| 21:21.54 | prpplague | solar: not only that it also applies to my son |
| 21:21.54 | chouimat|work | ds2: mine for this job started at the begining ... for healthcare I was covered in Ontario by Quebec the first 3 months (because I moved from another province) |
| 21:22.23 | ds2 | choimat|work: oh, that's not too bad |
| 21:22.54 | RobotGuy | I think it would be much more difficult for somebody like me to move to another country, even to Canda. |
| 21:22.59 | RobotGuy | Canada |
| 21:23.00 | ds2 | so figure about 60days of dead time to work a year in the Yukon as a work/vacation thing |
| 21:23.07 | chouimat|work | ds2: sure we have to wait a little bit to see a doctor but at least we don't have to call an insurance company to get the treatment approved :) |
| 21:23.29 | ds2 | choimat|work: little bit == a life time or two? ;) |
| 21:24.34 | chouimat|work | ds2: depend I waited about 9 months to see a fully covered shrink ... I could had a private one (at 150 to 200$/week) in a few days |
| 21:24.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you would have a hell of a time, most countries have policies about people need additional benefits |
| 21:25.06 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That's my point exactly. |
| 21:25.35 | chouimat|work | ds2: if I call my family doctor I can have an apointment in a relatively short time (aka 2 weeks), if it's really urgent I simply go to a clinic or the ER |
| 21:26.31 | ds2 | 2 weeks?! |
| 21:26.47 | RobotGuy | So, unless I happen to find a sweetie here in the USA, I am pretty much SOL. |
| 21:27.26 | chouimat|work | it's probably less than 2 weeks. he's booked like crazy and I think he's on vacation right now :) |
| 21:30.20 | prpplague | i generally use a clinic, since they are open after work and on weekends |
| 21:31.03 | RobotGuy | Anymore, I won't even bother with clinics or the ER. |
| 21:31.09 | prpplague | RobotGuy: see i just broke my own rule and it got me |
| 21:31.29 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i turned on three things at once, and now i don't know which one broke the build |
| 21:31.59 | prpplague | turns them off and re-tests |
| 21:32.06 | chouimat|work | RobotGuy: a few weeks ago I had a really asthma crisis (attack?) so I had to go to the ER |
| 21:32.24 | RobotGuy | Everything is broken here, so I am not even worrying about it now. |
| 21:32.41 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hehe, yea well i have to make it work so i don't get fired |
| 21:32.53 | RobotGuy | chouimat|work: They never find anything by the time I get to the ER. |
| 21:33.41 | chouimat|work | RobotGuy: they found it ... I was unable to breath and I was sweating like a pig so they pass me in priority :) |
| 21:33.54 | RobotGuy | Once I relax, the chest pains usually go away. That is starting to not be true now though. :( |
| 21:35.16 | chouimat|work | you know what I think starting to compile gcc on a 400Mhz arm box at 16:48 wasn't a good idea |
| 21:35.33 | prpplague | chouimat|work: hehe |
| 21:35.56 | RobotGuy | It's almost as bad on the P3/733 with 192 MB RAM |
| 21:36.07 | RobotGuy | s/the/this/ |
| 21:36.15 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I'm bootstrapping the next version of the product |
| 21:38.10 | prpplague | chouimat|work: lovely |
| 21:38.36 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I love porting es5 to the arm :) |
| 21:38.47 | prpplague | 12 minutes until beer time |
| 21:39.15 | prpplague | actually thats 22 minutes to beer time |
| 21:39.19 | prpplague | misread the clock |
| 21:39.23 | chouimat|work | 39 minutes pass beer time and still have 45 minutes of bus time to do before beer |
| 21:41.25 | prpplague | makes note to call and warn the other bus passengers about chouimat|work |
| 21:41.43 | prpplague | jokes with chouimat|work |
| 21:41.53 | chouimat|work | prpplague: hehe ... ok time to go before it rains again |
| 21:42.01 | prpplague | chouimat|work: later |
| 21:42.05 | chouimat|work | yup |
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| 22:48.30 | *** join/#edev roxfan (n=dunno@253.54-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
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| 23:55.12 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-161-13.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 23:56.21 | prpplague | greetings earthlings |
| 23:56.48 | prpplague | ho ho ho, merry freakin friday |