| 00:07.22 | g1powermac | wonders if this dog is part hamster, he loves eating paper towel and toiled paper tubes |
| 00:09.16 | g1powermac | though one of our old dogs use to love to shred paper when she was younger, we use to think she was a reincarnated CEO ;-) |
| 00:13.49 | GPSFan | g1powermac: the mac IIci has an ethernet card and dual page display card don't know the ram or hdd size |
| 00:13.58 | g1powermac | oh nice |
| 00:14.45 | GPSFan | I don't know how that display will ship, I don't have the orig box, or anything suitable atm. |
| 00:15.22 | g1powermac | yea |
| 00:16.18 | g1powermac | I don't need it right now, so if you want to wait a bit till you find a box or something, that'd be fine |
| 00:52.08 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-161-13.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 00:52.22 | prpplague | doh wireless router died |
| 00:54.39 | chouimat | back |
| 00:56.33 | chouimat | prpplague: enjoyed the article? |
| 00:57.57 | prpplague | chouimat yep, thanks |
| 00:58.03 | prpplague | chouimat went and got a copy |
| 00:58.13 | prpplague | chouimat i think the kids enjoyed it more than me |
| 00:58.23 | prpplague | chouimat "dad you are FAMOUS!!!" |
| 01:07.32 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: hehe, nice |
| 01:35.29 | chouimat | prpplague: hehe |
| 01:40.19 | MonMotha | prpplague: uboot seems to be what people want for whatever reason |
| 01:40.31 | MonMotha | I don't care as long as it lets me change what's in flash and boot Linux |
| 01:40.35 | solar | prpplague: cheap rc cards look to be providing a good cheap source of parts |
| 01:40.41 | solar | picked up two of them |
| 01:54.26 | *** join/#edev prpplague^2 (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-161-13.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 01:54.35 | prpplague^2 | solar hehe yea |
| 01:54.42 | prpplague^2 | solar the rc's are really good |
| 01:54.43 | prpplague^2 | solar |
| 01:55.08 | prpplague^2 | solar you'll find lots of the toys stuff are good source of parts |
| 01:55.30 | prpplague^2 | chouimat|Zzzz mighty early for bed!! |
| 02:17.11 | solar | prpplague: so looks like 2 hobby motors in the bigger one and a small wireless reciver to some kind of outputs. says 27 or 49MHz. $15 |
| 02:18.40 | prpplague | nice |
| 02:18.43 | solar | so really I guess all I need is a way to attach a flat surface it it's chassis so I can mount crap. |
| 02:19.18 | solar | the smaller one is pretty small. $8 bucks on sale. Also same brand nikko |
| 02:20.20 | prpplague | solar cool deal |
| 02:20.29 | prpplague | solar you really getting into the hardware hacking |
| 02:20.31 | solar | it could barely tow the nail and a little extra weight |
| 02:21.08 | prpplague | ahh |
| 02:21.22 | prpplague | that motor stuff is good for stering |
| 02:21.48 | solar | prpplague: I'm just taking advantage of you vs paying to go to a college and learn something proper |
| 02:22.05 | prpplague | ha |
| 02:22.20 | prpplague | solar i'm honored you think i'm of college quality education |
| 02:22.21 | prpplague | hehe |
| 02:22.36 | prpplague | solar oh the horror!!! i'm out of beer |
| 02:22.39 | prpplague | brb |
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| 04:21.57 | landley | waves at prpplague. |
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| 05:12.27 | solar | is there some trick to desoldering old solder? I've seem to run across some that I just can't seem to heat up enough to melt to get at the parts apart that I need to. |
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| 06:13.55 | landley | solar: blowtorch? :) |
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| 06:49.26 | RobotGuy | landley: Greets! |
| 06:51.33 | landley | Hiya robotguy. |
| 06:51.45 | landley | I got the FWL 0.9.0 release out. |
| 06:52.00 | landley | Trying to remember how to op myself so I can update the channel title on #firmware. |
| 06:54.50 | RobotGuy | Do /msg chanserv #edev op |
| 06:56.05 | RobotGuy | No chanserv, no ops |
| 06:59.45 | landley | Ok, now how do I set the topic? |
| 06:59.48 | landley | Google might know... |
| 07:00.00 | RobotGuy | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:02.14 | landley | Thanks, it is set. |
| 07:02.29 | landley | And in a few weeks I'll have to remember how to do that all over again when I release 0.9.1. |
| 07:02.35 | landley | (I found a brown paper bag bug on arm. Sigh...) |
| 07:03.04 | landley | The distcc accelerator needs an "as" link. The copy of gcc running on the host calls out to "as". |
| 07:03.13 | landley | Doesn't do this on x86 or the other platforms I tried... |
| 07:03.24 | landley | Trivial fix, but still... |
| 07:27.48 | solar | landley: still around? |
| 07:28.44 | landley | yup |
| 07:28.53 | landley | Badmouthing uclibc over on #uclibc. :P |
| 07:28.56 | landley | Venting. |
| 07:29.04 | solar | landley: sigh. |
| 07:29.19 | solar | dude. Why don't you step up the to the plate and take mikes role? |
| 07:29.51 | landley | I'm seriously considering it. |
| 07:29.53 | solar | He can be made be ok with it. I'll call him if you desire. |
| 07:30.06 | landley | I was focusing on getting an FWL release out, but that went up on the 6th. |
| 07:30.22 | landley | At the moment, I'm ponding doing a 0.9.29.1 release. Bugfixes only. |
| 07:30.32 | landley | Because there really really really needs to be one. |
| 07:31.04 | landley | Unfortunately, that's how I became busybox maintainer (doing bugfix only releases), and I've held off doing that unless I'm ready for it to potentially avalanche on me. |
| 07:31.14 | solar | I called him about a plan but.. He is off in signapore being with his semi-wife for 3 months. He really knows he lacks the time. You however have a good overview vision and have been stepping back. All you have to do is guide vda etc on what to commit |
| 07:31.49 | landley | I've never really been an active uClibc developer. I poke from time to time, but it's not like busybox where I rewrote a half-dozen apps from scratch before winding up with actual responsibility. |
| 07:32.02 | landley | There are a lot more things about uClibc I don't _know_. |
| 07:32.20 | solar | true. A libc has lots of symbol things that one must pay careful attention to |
| 07:32.25 | landley | On the other hand, if it's just a question of regression submissions and shipping releases on a schedule, that I can do. |
| 07:32.37 | landley | solar: I don't understand half that stuff. |
| 07:32.51 | landley | The whole "weak symbols" thing has caused me grief from several directions. |
| 07:33.18 | solar | painful migration but well worth it for those gcc users |
| 07:33.30 | landley | I currently have a patch in FWL fixing a static linking bug in uClibc 0.9.29 by fiddling with weak symbol declarations. |
| 07:34.09 | landley | I'm still not quite sure what broke how. I was studying elf linking in tinycc but then the tinycc guys decided to have another release of the old smells-like-dead-fish CVS tree, and I decided to hell with it. |
| 07:34.22 | landley | If they want the CVS tree to be the official version, it can rot for all I care. |
| 07:34.34 | landley | llvm+clan is interesting, pcc is interesting, their tree isn't. |
| 07:35.12 | landley | From a technical standpoint, I think Peter Mazinger should be the maintainer. |
| 07:35.29 | landley | Unfortunately, from a social standpoint, not so much. |
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| 07:36.07 | landley | My social skills aren't that great, but psm doesn't actually seem to be _interested_ in working with the rest of the world anymore... |
| 07:36.11 | landley | Sigh. |
| 07:36.49 | landley | Oh, the embedded Linux convention I'm putting together in Austin may have been bumped back to October 2009. |
| 07:36.55 | landley | We're doing location scouting this week. |
| 07:37.06 | landley | Just FYI. |
| 07:37.19 | landley | If it comes together, I'm definitely inviting Eric Andersen and Denys Vlasenko as GoHs. |
| 07:37.57 | landley | solar: tell you what. I'll try to dig through the uClibc svn to come up with some bugfix only patches this week. |
| 07:38.16 | solar | landley: kinda the problem with psm is he actually does not even understand c or why he does alot of the things he does |
| 07:38.18 | landley | If I come up with a good list, I'll put together a 0.9.29.1 release candidate, and we'll see how it goes from there. |
| 07:38.29 | landley | solar: ? |
| 07:38.54 | solar | re; "<landley> From a technical standpoint, I think Peter Mazinger should be the maintainer." |
| 07:39.06 | landley | He seems to have accomplished a heck of a lot for somebody who doesn't understand C. |
| 07:39.15 | landley | Most of it in C, from what I've seen... |
| 07:39.38 | solar | you have no idea how many ppl in the course of a day he seeks help to accomplish his goals. |
| 07:39.47 | landley | I've gotten bugfixes from him I _never_ would have worked out myself. And he's got 1000 commits in his tree. |
| 07:39.48 | solar | it can be quite time consuking |
| 07:39.55 | solar | consuming(sp) |
| 07:39.59 | landley | solar: I ping lots of peple to help me accomplish my goals. :) |
| 07:40.06 | landley | You've been one of them on more than one occasion... |
| 07:40.25 | solar | landley: I do enjoy most of his work. He has been more than helpful over the years |
| 07:40.43 | landley | The thing is, if I started trying to maintain uClibc I'd be doing a lot of what you say peter's doing: seeking help from people with missing domain expertise. |
| 07:42.02 | landley | I still haven't sat down and diagnosed that darn sparc bug. (I think I actually have patches for it floating around here somewhere, from blue swirl.) |
| 07:42.43 | landley | solar: what is gentoo embedded's uClibc based on these days? |
| 07:42.55 | landley | Is it 0.9.28 + tons of patches, or 0.9.29 + tons of patches? |
| 07:43.59 | solar | landley: gentoo embedded is not really a product so much as a method of taking advantage of the build system. Lots of tips/hints there. |
| 07:44.31 | solar | still 0.9.28-rBUNCH_OF_PATCHES |
| 07:44.54 | solar | we could move to .29 for all arches but one afaik. |
| 07:45.10 | landley | Which one? |
| 07:45.21 | solar | but I've been trying to bring on some more help in gentoo land for those kinds of tasks |
| 07:45.43 | landley | One of the goals of FWL has always been to stay close to release versions of the packages it uses. |
| 07:45.49 | landley | With uClibc this has meant 0.9.29. |
| 07:45.56 | landley | Moving beyond 0.9.29, I dunno which fork to follow. |
| 07:46.04 | landley | The gentoo one at least has real world testing. |
| 07:46.24 | solar | I'd follow trunk. It might be slow now. But the project will pull itself back into shape. |
| 07:46.51 | landley | Actually what I was hoping to be able to to do was pull users (like gentoo) back towards whatever trunk I put out. |
| 07:47.05 | landley | That means whatever your patches are, I'd like to get them merged so you didn't have to carry them anymore. |
| 07:47.19 | solar | we may get funding from a proper group like cisco,sony,nokia or elsewhere which deps on uclibc for a product and can sponsor a few full time devs. |
| 07:47.26 | landley | First thing I'd do is put uClibc on a time based release scheme, like I did busybox. |
| 07:47.42 | solar | timebased is bad for distros |
| 07:48.00 | landley | Ubuntu? |
| 07:48.24 | solar | ppl yell for new versions even when new versions are bad. simply cuz the version has a higher numeric value |
| 07:48.24 | landley | Mark Shuttleworth's keynote at OLS was about the importance of time based releases... |
| 07:49.10 | solar | in the terms of a distro as he was probably speaking about it helps |
| 07:49.15 | landley | When you have a spare hour, go to http://kernel.org/doc/video.html and watch the video at the last link. |
| 07:49.46 | solar | a libc however. When that breaks.. all hell breaks lose. You have to get into a rescue mode |
| 07:49.59 | landley | solar: sure. Same with the kernel. |
| 07:50.04 | landley | The kernel is now using time based releases. |
| 07:50.22 | landley | Not necessarily being rigid about it. |
| 07:50.32 | landley | But "release early, release often" is kind of important to the way open source works. |
| 07:50.47 | landley | Not letting development build up and fork far away from the last version anybody's actually using. |
| 07:50.53 | solar | then it should really be using YYYYMMDDSS vs 2.x.x.x ? |
| 07:51.17 | landley | Could be. |
| 07:51.28 | landley | You didn't notice they've been doing a release every 3 months for several years now? |
| 07:51.44 | landley | It's explicitly intentional. |
| 07:52.01 | landley | The kernel developers have given presentations on it. |
| 07:52.05 | solar | I'm always a few versions behind focusing on trying to make *anything* coming from upstream stablish |
| 07:52.08 | landley | Andrew Morton's at CELF was one. |
| 07:52.16 | landley | solar: that's normal. :) |
| 07:52.24 | landley | Just because they had a release doesn't mean you have to immediately move. |
| 07:52.28 | landley | But it's nice to have the option. |
| 07:52.36 | landley | A release isn't bug free, a release is a fixed set of known bugs. |
| 07:52.40 | solar | I know this. But the point is. Lots of others dont |
| 07:52.57 | solar | and the overhead they cause is a waste of resources |
| 07:53.05 | solar | time,effort,stress |
| 07:53.20 | landley | Watch the video. It's actually pretty good. |
| 07:53.30 | landley | (One of them "google tech talks".) |
| 07:54.06 | landley | One point is that recently introduced bugs are easier to track down. |
| 07:54.28 | landley | If a bug was introduced in the last month or two, the changes are still fresh in people's minds and there's a finite number of changes to look through anyway. |
| 07:54.45 | solar | I respect the guy and I've watched a few of his longer 45+ min vids on google. Saw him in OSCON. |
| 07:54.55 | landley | if the bug was introduced eight months ago, even the developers won't quite remember what they did or why. |
| 07:55.25 | solar | but know first hand. That targets simply don't move that fast. Ubuntu builds it's system with a very limited number of options and assumes everything else just works. |
| 07:55.49 | landley | You can still prove "this broke it" via bisect, but fixing it is harder. More side effects and dependencies piled up on top of the change you want to revert, and less knowledge of the reasons for it. |
| 07:55.52 | solar | thats far from the case when you try to expose every compile time option a program can support to you end users |
| 07:56.04 | landley | solar: David Mandala is currently adding an arm target to Ubuntu. |
| 07:56.18 | landley | And they still build powerpc, even if they don't ship it. |
| 07:56.27 | solar | landley: was that the embedded guy at CELF? |
| 07:56.37 | landley | solar: yup. I gave him a nail board too. |
| 07:56.48 | solar | cool. Hows he doing with it? |
| 07:56.52 | landley | David's highly cool, and is now in charge of ubuntu mobile and embedded. |
| 07:57.00 | landley | Having fun with it, apparently. |
| 07:57.03 | landley | I saw him at OLS. |
| 07:57.16 | landley | I still need to write up a HOWTO for andrew morton. |
| 07:57.20 | landley | I have no case for my nail board. :( |
| 07:57.27 | solar | landley: we sent 2 of our guys there |
| 07:57.29 | landley | The shipping company tct uses apparently still can't find my house. |
| 07:57.35 | landley | solar: cool. |
| 07:57.38 | solar | both own nails. One that you gave me |
| 07:57.47 | landley | I gave a talk on documentation, and hosted a compiler BOF. |
| 07:58.08 | solar | landley: and I was just at OSCON and then LWE a few weeks later |
| 07:58.09 | landley | The compiler BOF was taped, and is on the web. Talk about a strange experience... |
| 07:58.36 | landley | http://free-electrons.com/pub/video/2008/ols/ |
| 07:59.02 | landley | How were OSCON and LWE? |
| 07:59.09 | landley | Does LWE still have technical content? |
| 08:00.12 | RobotGuy | I would have enjoyed OSCON more if I could have gone to some of the sessions. Didn't know I could go to the BoFs. |
| 08:00.28 | solar | landley: LWE was kinda.. umm. I saw 3 cool things there this year. |
| 08:00.48 | landley | Yay? |
| 08:00.54 | solar | landley: Not sure.. But I might make it to your neck of the woods for http://www.austingdc.net/ |
| 08:01.05 | RobotGuy | Iw as going to invite a lady to lunch, but she'd already eaten. |
| 08:01.06 | landley | RobotGuy: I tend to just go and ask forgiveness later. |
| 08:01.26 | RobotGuy | landley: They had people checking badges. |
| 08:01.57 | landley | solar: cool. I'm not going to that, but I'll drag you out to dinner sometime if you're here. |
| 08:02.22 | solar | landley: OSCON was pretty sweet actually the last few days. The first few were boring. I got hooked on the arduino while there at OSCON. |
| 08:02.27 | RobotGuy | is envious |
| 08:02.27 | landley | RobotGuy: how exactly were you attending oscon? |
| 08:02.39 | landley | What's an arduino? |
| 08:02.53 | RobotGuy | landley: It was in Portland, practically in my backyard. |
| 08:02.54 | solar | At LWE the only thing that impressed me besides meeting rusty of tct was learning about the linuxstamp |
| 08:03.03 | RobotGuy | landley: www.arduino.cc |
| 08:03.17 | landley | linuxstamp? |
| 08:03.29 | RobotGuy | Linux Plumber's Conference is also in Portland. |
| 08:03.56 | solar | landley: http://www.opencircuits.com/Linuxstamp |
| 08:04.32 | solar | the hardware is great. But the board could use a makeover from the guys at tct or so. |
| 08:04.42 | landley | RobotGuy: I've heard of the linux plumber's conference, but OLS was pretty much my travel budget for the year. |
| 08:04.48 | landley | I didn't even go to worldcon. :( |
| 08:04.54 | RobotGuy | solar: I bet Rusty could whip that into shape. |
| 08:05.00 | landley | I have a finite amount of time away from the cats before they go psychotic... |
| 08:05.19 | solar | RobotGuy: the other kid put 3 yearts of his life into it. |
| 08:05.43 | RobotGuy | solar: Wow. It looks like it has the same stuff as the hammer carrier board. |
| 08:05.49 | solar | RobotGuy: but as noted he is a kid/very young smart man. But.. You are probably still right |
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| 08:15.53 | RobotGuy | I have almost 2 years into W.A.L.T.E.R. (end of this month). |
| 08:18.08 | RobotGuy | -sigh- |
| 08:19.44 | RobotGuy | I bet if the linuxstamp guy hooked up with TCT, some cool things could happen. |
| 08:29.43 | solar | prpplague: said TCT already got a nastygram about that chip/design from parallax. name change or copyright of the word "stamp" maybe. TCT opted to not use it at this time under that name |
| 08:29.56 | solar | so my guess it's not written off. Just postponed |
| 08:40.55 | RobotGuy | solar: http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2008-07/arduino-muscle-car |
| 08:41.50 | RobotGuy | I don't think Parallax can copyright the word "stamp", by itself. |
| 08:44.16 | solar | nite |
| 08:51.17 | landley | It would be a trademark, not a copyright, and no "stamp" is too broad in this context. |
| 08:51.30 | landley | That said, if they get random threats are they going to stand up to them, or fold? |
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| 13:10.52 | g1powermac | morning GPSFan |
| 13:11.02 | GPSFan | howdy |
| 13:13.38 | g1powermac | did some more research on the Mac IIci, it would definitely make a nice machine |
| 13:13.53 | g1powermac | better than the mac II I have which I'm not even sure works |
| 13:14.56 | g1powermac | and the laptop you have is a powerbook 100? |
| 13:15.58 | g1powermac | if its a 100, it won't be much use for me |
| 13:16.04 | GPSFan | g1powermac: it was a nice box when it was current. I'm going to power it up today, if smoke comes out into the dumpster it goes, if it runs I'll take some pix. I may have a way to ship the monitor safely... |
| 13:16.13 | g1powermac | as it uses a 68000, which won't run linux |
| 13:16.18 | GPSFan | yeah, pb100 |
| 13:16.33 | g1powermac | k |
| 13:16.36 | g1powermac | hmm, well |
| 13:16.48 | g1powermac | sure not pb140? :-) |
| 13:16.53 | g1powermac | the 140 would work |
| 13:17.11 | g1powermac | or anything besides the straight 100 |
| 13:18.01 | GPSFan | oooooh, you are in luck, it's a 165 |
| 13:19.55 | g1powermac | woot, woot |
| 13:20.25 | g1powermac | does it have a 'c' at the end of the model number? |
| 13:20.34 | g1powermac | like 165c? |
| 13:23.23 | GPSFan | no, it's mono. |
| 13:24.03 | GPSFan | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:24.43 | g1powermac | hmm, no trackball? |
| 13:25.13 | GPSFan | it has one but it doesnt work. I have an external mouse for it |
| 13:25.53 | g1powermac | k |
| 13:30.34 | g1powermac | well, its still a great machine |
| 13:30.47 | g1powermac | the 'c' version had an fpu |
| 13:40.53 | GPSFan | having problems finding an adb cable for the kbd. ;>( |
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| 13:56.58 | g1powermac | has plenty of adb keyboards |
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| 14:05.55 | GPSFan | g1powermac: http://imagebin.ca/view/X8cZ8Axg.html |
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| 14:18.50 | g1powermac | kewl |
| 14:19.23 | g1powermac | interesting |
| 14:19.41 | g1powermac | it only says "Macintosh" in the About this Mac dialog window |
| 14:19.50 | g1powermac | usually it lists the complete model name |
| 14:19.51 | GPSFan | g1powermac: that almost classes an embedded system |
| 14:19.59 | g1powermac | yup |
| 14:20.45 | g1powermac | to me, these systems are more accessible to home made hacks than anything newer |
| 14:21.45 | g1powermac | I can easily make up a card that will attach to a nubus slot, as it uses standard headers spaced at .1" |
| 14:22.13 | GPSFan | http://imagebin.ca/view/0HnnAd.html |
| 14:22.48 | g1powermac | ahh, nice |
| 14:23.00 | g1powermac | cute boxy little mac ;-) |
| 14:24.38 | GPSFan | indeed, I won't be able to include the kbd and adb cable, it's all I have to run our old 8500. |
| 14:25.01 | g1powermac | k, thats cool |
| 14:25.13 | g1powermac | like I said, I got a box of keyboards |
| 14:25.37 | g1powermac | the guy who gave me the mac II's gave me a boat load of keyboards and wires |
| 14:25.53 | GPSFan | I'll work on boxing it up over the next few days and get a weight, probably be 2 boxes, one for the monitor (I hope) and the other for the cpu & pb. |
| 14:26.15 | g1powermac | k |
| 14:28.05 | g1powermac | should get his powermac 8600 running one day |
| 14:28.15 | g1powermac | or his suped up 6100 |
| 14:28.34 | chouimat | looks at his ibook g4 and mac pro and he's happy ;) |
| 14:28.40 | g1powermac | with a 330mhz G3 card in it, it could boot os 8.1 in seconds! :-) |
| 14:29.03 | g1powermac | truly the fastest booting mac I've ever seen |
| 14:29.25 | g1powermac | chouimat, don't make me get the list out ;-) |
| 14:29.45 | chouimat | g1powermac hehe :) |
| 14:30.47 | g1powermac | now I got two more to add to the list |
| 14:32.28 | g1powermac | GPSFan, do you have a scsi cdrom drive by any chance? |
| 14:32.34 | g1powermac | really could use one |
| 14:32.46 | g1powermac | *external scsi cdrom |
| 14:33.34 | GPSFan | g1powermac: maybe |
| 14:34.28 | g1powermac | kewl, lemme know if you do have it |
| 14:35.11 | GPSFan | g1powermac: it's not a question of having, its having that I can let go of for free. |
| 14:36.05 | solar | good morning edev super stars |
| 14:36.26 | GPSFan | I can give you an ext scsi cable for the pb. |
| 14:36.45 | GPSFan | it's very ugly. |
| 14:37.26 | g1powermac | nah, don't need that |
| 14:37.36 | g1powermac | I got a powerbook scsi adaptor coming from ebay |
| 14:37.47 | g1powermac | now I am willing to pay a bit for the cdrom |
| 14:38.17 | g1powermac | had a scsi powerbook adaptor, but can't find it |
| 14:38.38 | g1powermac | its buried somewhere under the mess of wires |
| 14:38.44 | GPSFan | well, it's almost not a question of $ but of possible future need. |
| 14:39.19 | GPSFan | I'll throw in the pb scsi adapter, I have no need of it and it's taking up space. |
| 14:39.29 | g1powermac | k |
| 14:39.41 | g1powermac | well, let me know what you decide with the cdrom |
| 14:39.56 | chouimat | hi solar |
| 14:40.09 | g1powermac | oh dear: http://venturebeat.com/2008/08/08/defcon-excuse-me-while-i-turn-off-your-pacemaker/ |
| 14:40.17 | g1powermac | my grandmother just recently got a pacemaker. . . |
| 14:40.30 | GPSFan | g1powermac: we'll see, if I have 2 in the junk pile I'll be able to part with one. |
| 14:40.38 | g1powermac | k |
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| 15:14.26 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-161-13.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 15:24.35 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 15:26.03 | chouimat | prpplague: good morning Mr. Celebrity ;) |
| 15:31.28 | prpplague | chouimat hehe |
| 15:37.26 | prpplague | hmm someone emailed me asking for information on the beagle board |
| 15:37.59 | chouimat | prpplague: I wonder if I order one :) |
| 15:38.25 | prpplague | 1) i don't know a whole lot about the beagle, as i don't have one yet, 2) i have no idea who this person is 3) no idea how this person associated me with the beagle board |
| 15:38.47 | prpplague | chouimat pretty decent little board, it is geared more towards software developers though |
| 15:39.31 | chouimat | prpplague: good enough for me ... I could use it to make a nice networked alarm clock ;) |
| 15:40.05 | prpplague | chouimat hehe |
| 15:40.30 | chouimat | prpplague: and wake up to nice music instead of crappy radio station |
| 15:41.52 | prpplague | thats doable indeed |
| 15:41.53 | chouimat | prpplague: the price is good ... but shipping will probably be bad |
| 15:42.52 | prpplague | chouimat shouldn't be more than $20 |
| 15:43.55 | chouimat | prpplague: know which generation of arm is a cortex-a8? |
| 15:45.00 | prpplague | chouimat coretex series falls outside the normal naming scheme and family order |
| 15:45.34 | chouimat | prpplague: look likes it's ARMv7 |
| 15:46.46 | prpplague | chouimat yea for all practical purposes it might as well be named ARM13 |
| 15:46.57 | prpplague | chouimat but i guess they thought that might be bad |
| 15:48.39 | chouimat | prpplague: I'm have a nice marvell kirkwood (88F6281) at work ... this thing run at 1.2GHz and consume 2 watts of power :) |
| 15:49.01 | prpplague | chouimat wow how did you get that? |
| 15:49.53 | chouimat | prpplague: marvell sent us the unit to see if we can put our product on it ... I even have a motorola kirkwood unit :) |
| 15:52.08 | prpplague | ahh |
| 15:52.14 | prpplague | interesting |
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| 15:54.10 | prpplague | hmm |
| 15:54.23 | prpplague | tries to decide how to answer this email about the beagle board |
| 15:56.00 | chouimat | tries to decide if he order one :) |
| 15:57.03 | prpplague | chouimat iirc they are sold out |
| 15:57.58 | chouimat | prpplague: wow this help make a decision ;) |
| 15:58.53 | prpplague | chouimat they should have some more soon |
| 15:59.28 | chouimat | ok ... now what I install on this kurobox pro ... |
| 16:08.45 | solar | saw the beagle at the TI booth at LWE. It was cute. Neat. Make a good Kiosk w/ it's built in hw support. But for the life of me I can't figure out why they put the 2x10pin at 45 degrees on the board. |
| 16:09.19 | chouimat | hehe |
| 16:14.20 | prpplague | solar yea, thats for the uart connection, and they didn't use a standard 2x10 pinout for a uart |
| 16:15.24 | prpplague | solar rusty is doing some adapter boards for the flyswatter to connect to the beagle |
| 16:16.36 | solar | very cool. Is rusty the guy who does most of your cad/eagle/etc design work? |
| 16:18.28 | prpplague | solar yea, rusty is a great EE |
| 16:18.45 | prpplague | solar i do alot of the concept designs, then he does the actual EE work |
| 16:36.19 | g1powermac | hey prpplague, chouimat, and RobotGuy :-) |
| 16:42.33 | prpplague | g1powermac greetings |
| 16:43.14 | g1powermac | prpplague, GPSFan is gonna give me a couple of his old macs. . .my collection is getting bigger ;-) |
| 16:45.29 | chouimat | discovered something he thought lost for ever: there is desks under those piles of papers ... and also probably 40$ in 0.01$ :) |
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| 17:35.00 | g1powermac | chouimat, hehe |
| 17:35.49 | g1powermac | prpplague, whats the smallest you can get a 2.6 kernel to compile to? |
| 17:37.37 | g1powermac | wonders if there's even a remote shot to fit a kernel on a floppy disk |
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| 17:42.00 | RobotGuy | Greetings Programs! |
| 17:48.45 | g1powermac | hey RobotGuy |
| 18:02.09 | prpplague | g1powermac depends on the options |
| 18:02.19 | prpplague | g1powermac core support i can get down to around 470k |
| 18:04.03 | g1powermac | interesting |
| 18:04.22 | g1powermac | really all I need is m68k kernel and mac drivers |
| 18:04.55 | prpplague | g1powermac yea, the tcp/ip stack is usually what adds a bunch |
| 18:05.07 | g1powermac | ahh |
| 18:05.29 | prpplague | should be able to get a good m68k kernel down around 850k-950k |
| 18:06.24 | g1powermac | thats not bad |
| 18:07.16 | g1powermac | and then maybe have an initramfs on another floppy |
| 18:10.36 | prpplague | g1powermac yea there are alot of possibilities |
| 18:13.23 | prpplague | g1powermac no hd for your mac? only floppies? |
| 18:13.38 | g1powermac | oh its got hard drives |
| 18:13.47 | g1powermac | just wondering with the floppies |
| 18:14.00 | g1powermac | as it would allow simple installation |
| 18:14.14 | prpplague | g1powermac ahh |
| 18:32.34 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: I am creating a W.A.L.T.E.R./ArduinoBot Shield for my Arduino. |
| 18:32.58 | g1powermac | heh, cool |
| 18:33.43 | g1powermac | prpplague, yea, most of these old macs don't have cdrom's so if a simplistic system can be installed with a couple of floppies and the rest downloaded, that would be a lot easier |
| 18:34.05 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: I am putting socket headers for my I2C compass and 3-axis accelerometer on it, plus headers for 3 ADC, some GPIO, and 3.3V/5V I2C. |
| 18:34.12 | g1powermac | nice |
| 18:34.24 | g1powermac | interesting |
| 18:34.42 | g1powermac | tested out the rescue disk using that mac bootloader |
| 18:34.55 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: I will eventually also use this setup connected to a Hammer. |
| 18:34.56 | g1powermac | the bootloader worked on both my mac classic II and the powerbook 520c |
| 18:35.30 | g1powermac | however, the linux kernel died on a bad trap on the powerbook and the bootloader died when loading the ramdisk on the classic II |
| 18:35.55 | g1powermac | though that could be because the classic only has 4mb of ram in it atm |
| 18:36.41 | g1powermac | oh and the stupid powerbook doesn't respond to the eject boot floppy key command, that was annoying |
| 18:39.09 | g1powermac | I wonder which kernel is used in this boot floppy |
| 18:40.02 | g1powermac | has a feeling its a 2.2.x kernel |
| 18:42.16 | g1powermac | really wonders why that kernel is still in use |
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| 19:11.03 | RobotGuy | really wonders why nobody ever really understands him. |
| 19:13.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy understands your words or your personality? |
| 19:18.38 | chouimat | prpplague: all those 3 answers :) |
| 19:22.44 | g1powermac | heh |
| 19:24.15 | prpplague | chouimat ?? |
| 19:26.34 | chouimat | prpplague: nm |
| 19:33.09 | g1powermac | ok, the one really nice part about working on old computers is that the reference books for them are incredibly cheap |
| 19:33.20 | prpplague | indeed |
| 19:33.47 | g1powermac | on average, for five or so books, I paid about $7 or so which includes the shipping |
| 19:33.54 | g1powermac | $7 each |
| 19:34.27 | g1powermac | on amazon, I've gotten a few books for like $.30 and $4 for shipping |
| 19:47.29 | g1powermac | prpplague, so from what I'm gathering, the Mac ROM is really a good chunk of the actual OS |
| 19:47.48 | g1powermac | it provides a massive load of functionality to programs and the mac os |
| 20:06.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Everything. |
| 20:09.02 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Did you get a chance to check the tracking on my displays? I figure they will probably arrive tomorrow. |
| 20:14.28 | RobotGuy | I have all the connectors placed and tacked onto my Arduino Proto Shield now. It will have a compass and 3-axis accelerometer. :) I'm no looking forward to doing the wiring though. |
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| 20:17.23 | RobotGuy | I think my ArduinoBot Shield looks pretty good, other than the fact the accelerometer module hangs over the edge. |
| 20:17.50 | RobotGuy | landley: Greetings |
| 20:18.21 | landley | Hiya robotguy. |
| 20:19.06 | RobotGuy | landley: What is the link to your ARM compilers? I'm on a different machine and don't have access to my bookmarks. |
| 20:19.48 | RobotGuy | landley: How is everything today? |
| 20:22.34 | landley | http://landley.net/code/firmware/downloads/binaries |
| 20:22.38 | landley | Under there somewhere. |
| 20:22.51 | RobotGuy | Thanks |
| 20:23.08 | RobotGuy | I want to try it with my ARM7 boards. |
| 20:23.46 | landley | ok |
| 20:23.51 | landley | Let me know how it goes. |
| 20:31.59 | RobotGuy | landley: I will. :) |
| 20:32.50 | RobotGuy | I understand more about Makefiles now (unwillingly). :) |
| 20:32.59 | landley | Same here. :( |
| 20:34.10 | RobotGuy | Is there a special wire stripper for small gauge wire (like #30)? |
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| 20:36.09 | chouimat | ok time for a beer at the pub ... |
| 20:36.34 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, I got a wire stripper that does multiple gauges |
| 20:36.42 | g1powermac | including 30ga |
| 20:37.30 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Larger, up to say, at least #16 awg? |
| 20:37.53 | g1powermac | mine goes from 20-30 |
| 20:38.01 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Where did you get yours? |
| 20:38.05 | g1powermac | http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/3926 |
| 20:38.13 | g1powermac | though I don't think I got it from them |
| 20:38.17 | g1powermac | but it is that one |
| 20:42.49 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: That type is a bit difficult for me to use, but I think I can manage it. |
| 20:43.30 | g1powermac | hmm, how so? |
| 20:44.18 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: I've had carpal tunnel in both wrists. |
| 20:44.27 | g1powermac | ahh, fun, fun |
| 20:44.45 | g1powermac | my mom is going through that stuff atm |
| 20:44.49 | RobotGuy | Had the surgery years ago. |
| 20:44.53 | g1powermac | and I've had issues in the past as well |
| 20:45.04 | RobotGuy | Tell her to NOT have both done at the same time. |
| 20:45.05 | g1powermac | especially if I type for too many hours |
| 20:45.22 | g1powermac | right now she only has a problem with one side |
| 20:45.34 | RobotGuy | Ahh, OK. Primary hand? |
| 20:45.37 | g1powermac | oddly its both her hand and her foot/ankle |
| 20:46.59 | g1powermac | oh dear, you hit my dyslexia, I don't remember which side is the problem :-) |
| 20:46.59 | RobotGuy | Uh oh. |
| 20:47.30 | RobotGuy | Sixelsyd of the world, UNTIE! |
| 20:47.44 | g1powermac | hehe |
| 20:48.27 | g1powermac | now it was absolutely hilarious (for me at least) when she went in for an EMG. . .I couldn't stop laughing every time they zapped her ;-) |
| 20:48.40 | RobotGuy | I have a pistol grip wire stripper I use for most wire, but it has great difficulty with #30. |
| 20:48.42 | g1powermac | she almost killed me at the end of it. . . ;-) |
| 20:48.58 | RobotGuy | Oh my, I bet! |
| 20:49.09 | RobotGuy | Why was it so funny for you? |
| 20:49.23 | g1powermac | really don't know, it just was :-) |
| 20:49.56 | g1powermac | maybe because I zapped myself so many times working on phone cables (you really don't realize how much power goes through a phone line) |
| 20:50.00 | RobotGuy | I am going to have lots of wires running on the bottom of my proto shield. |
| 20:50.35 | RobotGuy | I am going to take a picture of the top of the shield. |
| 20:51.30 | g1powermac | but really, as a warning, never touch a phone line with one part of the line in one hand and the other in the other hand |
| 20:51.35 | g1powermac | man that was bad |
| 20:52.58 | g1powermac | of course a phone call has to be coming through at that very second which is what brings the voltage levels high enough to cause a big shock |
| 20:55.22 | RobotGuy | I finally got a reasonably decent picture of the top of my ArduinoBot Shield. The camera in my phone is sooooooooooooooooo sloooooooooooow to take a picture. :( |
| 20:55.59 | solar | pics or it never happened |
| 20:56.28 | RobotGuy | solar: I have pictures of it and the assembly of my ArduinoBot as far as I have gotten. |
| 20:56.56 | RobotGuy | I just have to scale the size of them down so I can post them. |
| 20:58.16 | solar | it's a cam phone. 1.3 mega pixel. No need to scale down |
| 20:59.23 | RobotGuy | solar: Mine is 2 MPixel. |
| 20:59.35 | g1powermac | meh, sometimes I wish hackaday didn't use black as a background |
| 20:59.40 | g1powermac | it hurts my eyes |
| 21:00.20 | RobotGuy | I wish web designers would learn it's NOT good to go light on light or dark on dark for text/backgound. |
| 21:00.39 | g1powermac | actually, I'd rather have it that way |
| 21:00.46 | g1powermac | high contrast really hurts my eyes |
| 21:00.47 | RobotGuy | Why? |
| 21:01.06 | RobotGuy | I am the opposite. I wonder if I am in the minority on this. |
| 21:01.07 | g1powermac | I actually keep my iMac's display dimmed below the max because it's too bright |
| 21:01.54 | RobotGuy | files a minority report. |
| 21:02.02 | g1powermac | heh |
| 21:02.09 | g1powermac | though I could be in the minority |
| 21:02.25 | g1powermac | has a couple of eye problems that are prolly linked to my display preferences |
| 21:02.40 | RobotGuy | It must be me since the low contrast schemes are extremely wide spread. |
| 21:03.17 | g1powermac | hmm, I never really see much low contrast sites |
| 21:03.34 | RobotGuy | Probably because they all look fine to you. :p |
| 21:03.41 | g1powermac | heh, maybe |
| 21:03.48 | RobotGuy | And you don't have trouble reading them. |
| 21:04.22 | g1powermac | is so wondering if he should bid on the massive lot of byte magazines on ebay |
| 21:04.42 | RobotGuy | I used to have a full set, right from issue #1. |
| 21:04.49 | g1powermac | awesome |
| 21:04.57 | RobotGuy | I was a charter subscriber. |
| 21:05.33 | RobotGuy | I wish I still had all my magazines now, but I don't have any book cases here. |
| 21:05.50 | g1powermac | wishes there were more magazines like that around |
| 21:06.12 | RobotGuy | Have you tried SERVO and Nuts & Volts? |
| 21:06.25 | RobotGuy | I love those magazines! |
| 21:06.38 | g1powermac | haven't tried servo, but have had a subscription to Nuts & Volts, Make, and Circuit Cellar |
| 21:06.47 | g1powermac | only one I still have going is Circuit Cellar |
| 21:06.50 | RobotGuy | I wish I could afford get subscriptions to them as well as Circuit Cellar. |
| 21:07.07 | RobotGuy | Also MAKE Magazine - I sooooooooooooooo want a subscription to it. |
| 21:07.21 | g1powermac | has the first four issues of Make :-) |
| 21:07.30 | RobotGuy | Robot Magazine is OK, but doesn't go very deep into stuff. |
| 21:07.39 | RobotGuy | Lucky you! |
| 21:08.05 | g1powermac | Circuit Cellar is my favorite though |
| 21:08.27 | g1powermac | it was the one that inspired me to make my distributed computational system using 8051s |
| 21:08.36 | RobotGuy | They had a Maker Shed at OSCON and I saw so many things I wanted, including Make Controller (but it has no digital inputs - wonder if that's just a setup thing). |
| 21:08.47 | RobotGuy | CooL! |
| 21:09.17 | RobotGuy | I think Arduino is going to work out very well as a peripheral processor for Hammer. |
| 21:09.25 | g1powermac | it was basically an article that showed you how you could use a PIC to do offload some special processing from a host computer |
| 21:09.39 | RobotGuy | Ahhhhhhhhhhh, neat. |
| 21:09.42 | g1powermac | so I took that, twisted it a bit, and made PComMS |
| 21:09.56 | RobotGuy | That's how cool things get made. :) |
| 21:10.01 | g1powermac | yup, yup :-) |
| 21:10.08 | g1powermac | plus I got college credit for it :-) |
| 21:10.21 | RobotGuy | Even better! |
| 21:10.40 | g1powermac | can't wait to start college again |
| 21:10.51 | g1powermac | its been too long, and I'm itching to get my life back together |
| 21:10.54 | RobotGuy | I'd like to see the Processing/Wiring stuff get ported to ARM for cross compiling. |
| 21:11.15 | RobotGuy | I would love to take classes, but I just can't handle the lock step learning thing. |
| 21:11.42 | g1powermac | for me, it depends on how its taught |
| 21:11.58 | g1powermac | the more structure and organization of the class, the better |
| 21:12.01 | RobotGuy | I think I have the sources to all of it. |
| 21:12.31 | g1powermac | now, however, my favorite course ever was when I built PComMS which was no structure at all |
| 21:12.54 | g1powermac | but that caused major issues with the other classes I was taking |
| 21:13.06 | g1powermac | as I devoted a tad bit too much time to developing PComMS ;-) |
| 21:13.08 | RobotGuy | I had one extremely smart instructor who could design 3 stage amplifiers in his head and put the schematics up on the blackboard. However I didn't take well to how he explained things and he never gave homework for grades. |
| 21:13.47 | landley | People who can do it all in their heads often have trouble showing their work. |
| 21:13.50 | RobotGuy | That one semiconductor class dropped my GPA from 4.0 down to 3.51. :( |
| 21:13.52 | g1powermac | if they are organized and give you a clear idea on what they want, I'm good |
| 21:14.12 | g1powermac | landley, I have that issue |
| 21:14.37 | g1powermac | landley, though the many math courses I've taken have forced me otherwise |
| 21:15.16 | RobotGuy | landley: This instructor could show it just find. I just had trouble (and so did others) understanding his explanations. He only graded on labs and tests/finals. |
| 21:15.21 | g1powermac | if you don't show ya work, you don't get credit |
| 21:16.07 | g1powermac | anyway, time to go cook some dinner, bbiab |
| 21:16.31 | RobotGuy | sighs |
| 21:22.01 | RobotGuy | I have to figure out where I am going to get $1500.00 to pay for the 10% of my new chair insurance does not pay. |
| 21:22.23 | RobotGuy | They -might- take a down payment, but that would still be around $600.00. |
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| 21:55.46 | solar | thinks you really should talk to a specialist. You might can bypass getting another chair all together. |
| 21:58.17 | RobotGuy | solar: I am talking to specialists now - Neurologist, and I am going to get an appointment with an Otologist. |
| 21:59.08 | *** join/#edev mpk (i=mp@solute.xen-host.de) |
| 21:59.58 | RobotGuy | I have memory losses - sometimes right after somebody tells me something or shows me something. Happened twice last Wednesday. |
| 22:07.33 | landley | A chair is going to help your memory? |
| 22:49.16 | RobotGuy | landley: No, that has nothing to do with memory, but does have to do with my terrible balance problem. |
| 22:54.35 | landley | Ah. |
| 23:19.40 | Mirell | So I'm going to Vegas for the first time for quite probably the geekiest reason |
| 23:19.54 | RobotGuy | Mirell: Hi. What is that reason?? |
| 23:21.54 | Mirell | To see Star Trek: The Experience before it closes! |
| 23:22.28 | agaffney | hah |
| 23:22.41 | agaffney | sounds like a damn good reason to me |
| 23:24.19 | RobotGuy | Oh, wow. |
| 23:59.26 | *** join/#edev roxfan (n=dunno@47.62-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |