| 00:27.48 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 00:28.49 | RobotGuy | I haven't gotten the displays yet. |
| 00:31.03 | RobotGuy | goes to check for packages |
| 00:31.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy yea, they came back this morning |
| 00:31.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy apparently they got sent to the wrong address |
| 00:31.33 | prpplague | RobotGuy they will go back out tomorrow, with some extras |
| 00:32.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy they will go out 2nd day so you should have them thursday |
| 00:32.43 | RobotGuy | Oh, OK. |
| 00:33.02 | RobotGuy | Cool, extras. :) |
| 00:39.36 | *** join/#edev Crofton (n=balister@66-207-66-26.black.dmt.ntelos.net) |
| 00:45.12 | prpplague | Crofton hey |
| 00:45.31 | Crofton | hey |
| 00:45.42 | prpplague | Crofton you ever take any classes at college about the psychology of science/scientists? |
| 00:45.51 | Crofton | is being amused by the DEFCON pacemaker article |
| 00:45.57 | Crofton | no :) |
| 00:46.13 | Crofton | I did take some psych classes, but this was a logn time ago |
| 00:46.18 | Crofton | general stuff also |
| 00:47.06 | prpplague | Crofton yea i liked the pacemaker article as well |
| 00:47.23 | prpplague | Crofton interesting article - http://chronicle.com/temp/reprint.php?id=03hp5gr19z5sb0cdvhtsk5qgp3yhdttf |
| 00:48.53 | Crofton | yeah |
| 00:49.01 | prpplague | Crofton been looking for some info to help my boss(who is from sales) understand some of the motivation that drives engineers |
| 00:49.04 | Crofton | grad school is heavily foreign students |
| 00:49.08 | Crofton | Americans are idiots |
| 00:49.15 | prpplague | hehe |
| 00:50.10 | Crofton | they go for the high jobs with BS's and try to get into sales :) |
| 00:50.14 | prpplague | Crofton don't nessarily agree that they are idiots, just that the schools/social have been at work changing attitudes towards science for a long time |
| 00:50.59 | RobotGuy | And towards a host of other things. |
| 00:51.01 | Crofton | thats a bunch of psyco babble :) |
| 00:51.14 | prpplague | Crofton you find so? |
| 00:51.18 | Crofton | basically, we are becoming a nation of sheep |
| 00:51.24 | RobotGuy | Is there a phobia for society? |
| 00:51.40 | Crofton | everyone must be the same |
| 00:51.51 | prpplague | Crofton don't you find that starts at school? |
| 00:51.51 | RobotGuy | That's why I do not fit in. |
| 00:51.52 | Crofton | smart people must be dragged down |
| 00:51.56 | Crofton | yeah |
| 00:52.09 | Crofton | No Child Left Behind is the current problem |
| 00:52.12 | prpplague | Crofton harrison bergeron |
| 00:52.31 | prpplague | Crofton indeed, i have to deal with that every day with my two kids |
| 00:53.01 | RobotGuy | Why? Does that mean no kid gets kept back if necessary? |
| 00:53.05 | Crofton | by the time you get to college, you are afraid to be better than others at school |
| 00:53.18 | RobotGuy | I've felt that way for a long time. |
| 00:54.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy no what it means is they only teach exactly what is nessary to pass the test |
| 00:54.11 | RobotGuy | Those above you in the heierarchy get intimidated if you are clearly better than them at what you do. |
| 00:54.28 | prpplague | Crofton yep |
| 00:54.35 | RobotGuy | I've lost jobs because of that. |
| 00:55.24 | prpplague | Crofton my main problem is that the boss thinks about motivating the engineers the same way he motivates sales people |
| 00:55.28 | RobotGuy | Or because I wasn't sure enough of myself to go above the person's head. |
| 00:55.43 | prpplague | Crofton and he is totally confused as to why it's not working |
| 00:55.59 | Crofton | we are a funny lot |
| 00:56.02 | RobotGuy | Offer them a, well, wait, no not that. You'd never get any work from them. |
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| 00:56.54 | *** join/#edev ce_geek (n=ce_geek@c-24-61-92-226.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 00:56.54 | prpplague | Crofton yea, my previous boss was an EE |
| 00:57.03 | prpplague | Crofton so he understood |
| 00:57.06 | prpplague | ce_geek hey hey |
| 00:57.13 | ce_geek | prpplague: Howdy sir |
| 00:57.13 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: Hi |
| 00:57.16 | g1powermac | heya prpplague |
| 00:57.20 | ce_geek | prpplague, RobotGuy : How goes it? |
| 00:57.29 | g1powermac | hey ce_geek |
| 00:57.42 | RobotGuy | I had a rought weekend, but recovering from it. |
| 00:57.59 | prpplague | ce_geek you are fresh out of school! tell us, did you ever get any psych classes on the psychology of science/scientists? |
| 00:58.56 | ce_geek | g1powermac: hi |
| 00:59.02 | ce_geek | I did not..... why? |
| 00:59.13 | ce_geek | :) |
| 00:59.30 | prpplague | just discussing some of the motivations for engineers |
| 00:59.36 | g1powermac | psychology of science? hmm |
| 00:59.38 | prpplague | http://chronicle.com/temp/reprint.php?id=03hp5gr19z5sb0cdvhtsk5qgp3yhdttf |
| 00:59.44 | g1powermac | never seen that in my college |
| 00:59.55 | prpplague | g1powermac http://www.psychologyofscience.org/ |
| 01:00.08 | g1powermac | interesting |
| 01:00.21 | prpplague | g1powermac its curriculum(sp?) in a number of schools |
| 01:01.08 | ce_geek | That is interesting. |
| 01:01.23 | ce_geek | And yes, most of the kickass students were.... not from around here. |
| 01:01.30 | g1powermac | yea |
| 01:01.57 | prpplague | imho it is 60% culture |
| 01:02.03 | g1powermac | in the college I was attending, it was just me and this one other person who were the top CS students |
| 01:02.11 | g1powermac | the other person was from eastern europe |
| 01:02.23 | g1powermac | and this is a small CS department |
| 01:03.37 | prpplague | yea, like i said, i was more interested in the motivation part, with respect to my boss |
| 01:04.16 | prpplague | this is that part that i find interesting |
| 01:04.19 | prpplague | The intellectual lassitude we breed in students, their unearned and inflated self-confidence, undercuts both the self-discipline and the intellectual modesty that is needed for the apprentice years in the sciences. Modesty? |
| 01:04.32 | prpplague | Yes, for while talented scientists are often proud of their talent and accomplishments, they universally subscribe to the humbling need to prove themselves against the most-unyielding standards of inquiry. That |
| 01:04.43 | prpplague | willingness to play by nature's rules runs in contrast to the make-it-up-as-you-go-along insouciance that characterizes so many variants of postmodernism and that flatters itself as being a higher form of pragmatism |
| 01:05.08 | prpplague | i think that is a perfect diff between "sales" and "engineering" |
| 01:05.32 | g1powermac | heh yup |
| 01:06.39 | g1powermac | when I do something, I try to perfect what I'm making because I want my work to show who I am |
| 01:06.56 | g1powermac | not just for a grade or for a paycheck |
| 01:07.23 | g1powermac | though that could be my perfectionism/OCD talking there |
| 01:09.05 | ds2 | got to keep in mind that these are the people that will criple anything if it gives them that extra penny |
| 01:09.58 | prpplague | ds2 yea |
| 01:15.42 | ce_geek | It would be cool to be able to pronounce my professor's name once in a while :-p |
| 01:16.44 | g1powermac | ce_geek, hehe, so true, so true |
| 01:21.21 | ds2 | Using "Sir" and "Your honor" might get you enough brownie points to get the next grade up ;) |
| 01:21.41 | g1powermac | heh |
| 01:21.56 | g1powermac | ds2, you still interested in getting rid of your old macs? |
| 01:22.09 | ds2 | g1powermac: probally |
| 01:22.15 | ce_geek | I was fortunate during undergrad, most of the folks were local actually. And I was on a first name basis with all of them. |
| 01:22.24 | ds2 | unless you want me to rent a backhoe to move them... ;) |
| 01:22.35 | g1powermac | hehe |
| 01:22.51 | g1powermac | ds2, what kind of macs do you have? |
| 01:23.06 | ds2 | g1powermac: just that 68K mac laptop plus 2 docking stations for it |
| 01:23.20 | g1powermac | ahh |
| 01:23.24 | g1powermac | a duo dock? |
| 01:23.26 | ds2 | I think it is a Duo 270 or something like that |
| 01:23.42 | ds2 | yeah, duo dock, one in peices and the other one is working the last I tried |
| 01:24.00 | ds2 | apparently there is a issue with the power supplies on the docs; battery is dead of course |
| 01:24.13 | g1powermac | interesting, well, I'm definitely interested in it now that I got a project to work with them |
| 01:24.31 | g1powermac | how bad of an issue? |
| 01:24.45 | ds2 | they just die... that's why I got a second dock |
| 01:24.51 | g1powermac | ahh |
| 01:25.40 | ds2 | I can probally throw in a SparcStation 1 in there assuming I cna dig it out without killing my cables |
| 01:26.12 | g1powermac | well, there's a community site about the duos it seems: http://www.danpalka.net/powerbookduo/ |
| 01:26.37 | ds2 | it is a nice toy but i just don't have the time thesedays |
| 01:28.07 | g1powermac | the sun system is interesting |
| 01:28.32 | g1powermac | huh, it has SBus in it |
| 01:28.39 | g1powermac | now thats different |
| 01:28.42 | ds2 | yep |
| 01:28.45 | ds2 | hours of fun |
| 01:29.10 | g1powermac | another type of bus arch I can hack |
| 01:29.27 | g1powermac | likes the mac's nubus/pds slots |
| 01:29.44 | g1powermac | as you can easily stick a protoboard with headers on it |
| 01:30.36 | g1powermac | does the sun system take a special monitor? |
| 01:30.41 | g1powermac | or just standard vga? |
| 01:31.00 | ds2 | this takes the older 13W3 connector |
| 01:31.15 | ds2 | I have never used it in the console mode since I got it; it was always headless for me so I donno what video is in there |
| 01:31.22 | ds2 | guessing a cgthree or like |
| 01:31.26 | g1powermac | ahh |
| 01:31.33 | g1powermac | 13w3? never heard of it |
| 01:31.50 | ds2 | google that, it ias a big D connector with 3 Coax thingies buried in there |
| 01:32.20 | g1powermac | huh, wow, never seen that |
| 01:33.52 | g1powermac | well, there is adapters to hook it up to standard vga |
| 01:33.57 | g1powermac | man, I need more desk space |
| 01:34.03 | ds2 | donno if that card can generate VGA timings |
| 01:34.13 | ds2 | if it is a modern multisync, it might work |
| 01:34.44 | g1powermac | well, according to wikipedia, 13W3 can easily be adapted to vga |
| 01:34.49 | g1powermac | with just simple cable work |
| 01:35.05 | ds2 | that is physical but the timings is what the monitor really cares about |
| 01:35.17 | ds2 | you can get 13W3 to the 3 coax thingie if you wanted |
| 01:35.48 | g1powermac | huh, now that'd be different, hook it up to a tv |
| 01:35.59 | ds2 | eh? |
| 01:36.10 | ds2 | I doubt it can generate clocks that slw |
| 01:37.36 | g1powermac | hmm |
| 01:38.14 | ds2 | they were designed for fixed sync monitors which didn't work well with stock PCs (people tried all sorts of things since those were nicer monitors and they came up cheap/free often) |
| 01:38.29 | RobotGuy | I just posted a few pictures of ArduinoBot on my Blog. |
| 01:40.28 | g1powermac | ahh |
| 01:43.59 | g1powermac | ds2, and I figure you don't have a sun monitor for it? |
| 01:45.19 | ds2 | nope, and even if I did, you're paying for 6months of medical insurance cuz lifting/packing it is likely to do bad things to the back! |
| 01:45.42 | g1powermac | hehe, k |
| 01:45.46 | ds2 | the same size sun monitor weighs about 2x as much as a PC monitor |
| 01:45.52 | g1powermac | dang |
| 01:48.58 | MonMotha | Most of my multisyncs will hook up to my Sun |
| 01:49.02 | MonMotha | works fine |
| 01:49.12 | MonMotha | the sun runs somewhere around XGA-SXGA timings, IIRC |
| 01:49.23 | MonMotha | it's like 900-something lines |
| 01:54.27 | RobotGuy | I called that once, |
| 01:54.38 | g1powermac | oh dear |
| 01:55.07 | RobotGuy | Bunch of old geezers on that line |
| 01:57.11 | chouimat|Zzzz | looks at his O2 and wonders if he install netbsd this week ... |
| 01:57.15 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 01:57.29 | prpplague | chouimat|Zzzz hey crack baby |
| 01:57.33 | chouimat|Zzzz | prpplague: hi |
| 01:58.03 | chouimat|Zzzz | prpplague: currently trying to decide which distro I install on my kurobox pro |
| 01:58.18 | g1powermac | chouimat|Zzzz, netbsd is cool |
| 01:58.26 | g1powermac | though my favorite *nix is debian |
| 01:58.30 | MonMotha | RobotGuy: I see what you did there... |
| 01:59.02 | RobotGuy | Did what? Me? ;) |
| 01:59.26 | g1powermac | should try to boot the one mac II I didn't take apart |
| 01:59.27 | prpplague | chouimat|Zzzz whats cookin in ottawa today? |
| 01:59.44 | g1powermac | though I can't really do much with it being it uses a m68020 |
| 01:59.57 | prpplague | gotta get psychic'd up to finish this 8050 |
| 01:59.59 | chouimat|Zzzz | prpplague: nothing much ... still trying to port es5 to the marvell (work related) |
| 02:00.09 | prpplague | ahh |
| 02:00.31 | g1powermac | gnight all |
| 02:00.36 | prpplague | really surprised at the lack of tools for getting codecs up and running |
| 02:00.39 | prpplague | g1powermac later bud |
| 02:00.43 | g1powermac | cya prpplague |
| 02:05.36 | MonMotha | prpplague: well, that's useful to hear then |
| 02:05.45 | MonMotha | our Marvell rep of course was confident that it was all ready to go |
| 02:06.19 | MonMotha | prpplague: been able to extract any more info on the Samsunc S3C6400? |
| 02:11.09 | chouimat|Zzzz | ok night |
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| 02:54.24 | *** part/#edev Tom_itx (n=Tl@ip68-102-124-72.ks.ok.cox.net) |
| 02:55.18 | prpplague | MonMotha yea i have the datasheet |
| 02:55.50 | prpplague | MonMotha which item is related to the marvell stuff? |
| 02:56.25 | MonMotha | you said you were having trouble getting the codecs working on your Marvell thingie due to lack of tools |
| 02:56.45 | MonMotha | or maybe I misread |
| 02:56.52 | MonMotha | I guess it was chouimat|Zzzz who mentioned Marvell |
| 02:57.18 | MonMotha | prpplague: any indications from Samsung on volume requirements for the 6400? |
| 02:57.19 | prpplague | MonMotha ahh, actually i was commenting on audio codecs in general |
| 02:57.26 | prpplague | MonMotha big right now |
| 02:57.37 | prpplague | MonMotha based on what i'm hearing about 10k |
| 02:57.39 | prpplague | min |
| 02:57.44 | MonMotha | so I take it from your wording that may change in the future? |
| 02:57.47 | MonMotha | hum, ok |
| 02:57.56 | prpplague | MonMotha we are looking into it |
| 02:57.58 | MonMotha | that's right at a break point for us |
| 02:58.06 | prpplague | MonMotha we may decide to go to omap for next gen |
| 02:58.16 | prpplague | since TI has come down on their min qty |
| 02:58.19 | MonMotha | we are looking at one of the Davinci chips that isn't DSP based |
| 02:58.22 | MonMotha | the DM355, IIRC |
| 02:58.37 | prpplague | MonMotha yea |
| 02:58.40 | MonMotha | it's an ARM926EJ-S with some MPEG4 SP/AVC hardware accelerators built in |
| 02:59.01 | prpplague | MonMotha you planning to have an audio codec? |
| 02:59.05 | MonMotha | though I have to say that looking at all of these, the AT91SAM9263 still seems to take the prize for total memory and on-chip bandwidth |
| 02:59.09 | MonMotha | prpplague: very likely, yes |
| 02:59.33 | prpplague | MonMotha ahh ok, let me know what you have in mind, we have tested several |
| 02:59.50 | MonMotha | well, some of the higher-ups at my company are partial to Cirrus Logic since they worked there |
| 02:59.51 | prpplague | MonMotha overall i'm surprised though at the quality of testing |
| 03:00.05 | MonMotha | I haven't gotten into that level of component identificaiton yet, though |
| 03:00.06 | prpplague | MonMotha ahh |
| 03:00.18 | MonMotha | still gathering requirements and picking the big stuff like micro and storage |
| 03:00.20 | prpplague | MonMotha well, give me shout when you get there |
| 03:00.29 | MonMotha | will do. I'll probably be able to use your input |
| 03:00.49 | prpplague | i've got figure out some better tools for debugging and testing of audio |
| 03:01.00 | *** join/#edev Appleman1234 (n=Appleman@131.181.99.3) |
| 03:01.05 | MonMotha | yeah, I'm not even sure how to approach audio in an embedded Linux environment |
| 03:01.17 | MonMotha | certainly different from a desktop environment where you can throw lots of CPU time at it |
| 03:01.23 | prpplague | yea |
| 03:01.25 | MonMotha | (which is what everybody seems to do these days) |
| 03:01.34 | MonMotha | btw, have you played with XIP any? |
| 03:01.44 | prpplague | yea, with the juicebox |
| 03:01.54 | MonMotha | any resources? |
| 03:02.05 | prpplague | there are a few good pices on elinux |
| 03:02.15 | prpplague | but xip still is a black art, imho |
| 03:02.15 | MonMotha | I haven't the slightest idea how it works aside from the theoretical ("well, NOR flash looks like RAM") aspect |
| 03:02.18 | MonMotha | I see |
| 03:02.56 | prpplague | MonMotha yea, the big key is that most applications that are run from ram, are compiled "relocatable" |
| 03:03.15 | prpplague | MonMotha which means that they pretty much all have the same address space compiled in |
| 03:03.44 | prpplague | MonMotha so they are mostly |
| 03:03.52 | prpplague | MonMotha "relative" to their starting point |
| 03:04.15 | prpplague | MonMotha XIP is always done, "absolute" to their current position |
| 03:04.21 | MonMotha | makes sense |
| 03:04.31 | MonMotha | though you can still remap things if you have an MMU, right? |
| 03:05.03 | prpplague | MonMotha generally flash is in memory space that isn't as easy to remap as MMU when doing XIP |
| 03:05.18 | prpplague | MonMotha which is why most people use it with MMU less devices |
| 03:05.46 | MonMotha | I see |
| 03:06.03 | MonMotha | I guess on most of the bigger systems with the more flexible MMUs, you also have more RAM |
| 03:06.12 | prpplague | exactly |
| 03:06.13 | MonMotha | the data read in place looks useful, though |
| 03:06.20 | MonMotha | especially for GUI systems with lots of images |
| 03:06.54 | prpplague | yea, XIP and related items can be useful, but you have to carefully weigh the cost of time tweaking verse the benefits |
| 03:07.17 | MonMotha | it seems like there's potentially a lot of development time for not a lot of benefits at user time |
| 03:08.03 | MonMotha | would be nice if this was all built in and the kernel knew that e.g. JFFS2 on NOR can always use DRIP |
| 03:08.09 | MonMotha | so basically just turn it on if you want it |
| 03:08.50 | prpplague | yea, there is some kernel support for XIP, but there is still alot of tweaking you have to do |
| 03:08.54 | MonMotha | I see |
| 03:09.18 | prpplague | MonMotha most people use XIP on mmu less devices to cut cost of sdram , i.e. the juicebox |
| 03:09.51 | prpplague | where the customer is willing to spend large amounts of $$ and time on tweaking, to keep the unit cost down |
| 03:10.37 | prpplague | another example is the TVNow device |
| 03:10.54 | prpplague | although it does have a mmu, it is run without mmu stricly to keep the sdram usage down |
| 03:11.45 | prpplague | http://www.elinux.org/TvNow |
| 03:13.45 | prpplague | stops rambling |
| 03:14.02 | prpplague | i've been on a total lecture mode this evening |
| 03:19.19 | MonMotha | prpplague: well, that all makes sense |
| 03:19.44 | MonMotha | most of our devices seem to be lower volume (so not overly unit cost sensitive) and higher development time |
| 03:19.56 | MonMotha | though if XIP wasn't a PITA, then it might still be useful |
| 03:20.10 | MonMotha | especially when you have units in the field and your new firmware needs some extra RAM :) |
| 03:22.30 | *** join/#edev shaz (n=shaz@116.58.100.82) |
| 03:24.41 | prpplague | MonMotha indeed |
| 03:25.37 | prpplague | MonMotha most of the time its just as easy to tweak you kernel for good ram usage, and then just use a flash based root file system |
| 03:25.51 | prpplague | MonMotha with something like sd card as expansion storage |
| 03:26.09 | MonMotha | that's pretty much exactly what we are presently doing (minus the tweaks for RAM) |
| 03:26.30 | MonMotha | when I designed the board, I anticipated a development crunch (i.e. no time for lots of optimization), so I just chucked a whole bunch of RAM on the thing |
| 03:26.43 | MonMotha | costs a few extra $, but this is very low volume |
| 03:26.52 | MonMotha | and the software guys get a whopping 64MB of RAM to work in |
| 03:27.14 | MonMotha | and 256MB of onboard (NAND, so XIP not possible) flash |
| 03:27.16 | prpplague | holy freakin sdram batman! |
| 03:27.33 | MonMotha | yeah...lots of RAM |
| 03:27.41 | MonMotha | and it's still slow somehow |
| 03:27.49 | MonMotha | GTK/glib like to eat up lots of CPU time doing nothing |
| 03:28.06 | prpplague | actually i shouldn't talk, the m8050 will be available with 256mb, however the linux version will only have 32 |
| 03:28.08 | MonMotha | I wish I could show you the profiling data for our application |
| 03:28.21 | MonMotha | it would make you laugh |
| 03:28.25 | prpplague | hehe |
| 03:28.29 | MonMotha | the actual app barely shows up at all |
| 03:28.30 | prpplague | already am, hehe |
| 03:28.33 | MonMotha | like 1-2% |
| 03:28.37 | prpplague | hehe |
| 03:28.45 | MonMotha | .plt for the app is like 5% |
| 03:28.53 | MonMotha | the rest is GTK, glib, and pthreads (and it's not multithreaded) |
| 03:29.34 | MonMotha | 210-ish MIPS to apparently do a bunch of needless locking |
| 03:30.25 | MonMotha | well, 64MB of RAM may be a lot, but the companion hardware (which there is a lot more units worth of) is I think 64kB of RAM, so it makes up for it somehow |
| 03:32.21 | prpplague | hehe |
| 03:32.47 | prpplague | MonMotha gotta head to bed, gotta do a dog-n-pony around 1 tomorrow |
| 03:32.49 | solar | err my right viewing lense seems to suffered some temp alcohol damage |
| 03:32.57 | MonMotha | prpplague: fun fun |
| 03:32.58 | prpplague | solar hehe |
| 03:33.06 | MonMotha | I'll be here tomorrow at work, as well |
| 03:33.09 | MonMotha | gn |
| 03:33.47 | solar | prpplague: you are up late for married man |
| 03:33.51 | prpplague | solar "do do due, i'm sorry, solar's ocular service is not available at the momment, please hang up and try your call again later" |
| 03:34.22 | solar | It's all mostly good. Was just researching some topics and chatting with ppl |
| 03:34.55 | prpplague | hehe |
| 03:35.01 | prpplague | heads to be for real |
| 03:35.06 | prpplague | later folks |
| 03:35.11 | RobotGuy | later tater |
| 03:35.15 | prpplague | solar drink plenty of water!!!! |
| 03:35.18 | prpplague | RobotGuy later |
| 03:35.23 | solar | lrss fun |
| 03:35.26 | solar | less |
| 03:38.40 | RobotGuy | I drink water like a perverbial fish when it's hot out. Just got my ceiling fan installed today. :) |
| 03:48.31 | RobotGuy | BRB, food time. |
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| 04:01.20 | RobotGuy | Back |
| 04:21.42 | RobotGuy | I need ICE CREAM |
| 04:23.13 | solar | somehow that relates some embedded-devel |
| 04:23.48 | RobotGuy | Oh yes, indeed! It helps keep me cool and my sugar level up. :) |
| 04:24.05 | RobotGuy | I embed the ICE CREAM into my body. |
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| 07:05.35 | [AD]Turbo | hi all |
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| 07:11.01 | RobotGuy | Ola |
| 07:11.30 | RobotGuy | G'Night |
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| 11:55.39 | *** topic/#edev is a channel for the discussion of hacking small consumer electronic devices, mostly ARM based; Hammer Development boards as well as Nail Boards are now available at http://www.tincantools.com/ |
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| 12:57.13 | prpplague | ~seen T0mW |
| 12:57.17 | purl | t0mw <n=Tom@70.44.174.85.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #edev, 8d 6m 41s ago, saying: 'later dudes'. |
| 13:01.28 | g1powermac | yea, Tom was really working on his house he purchased the last time I talked with him |
| 13:11.42 | prpplague | yea, i wanted to ask him about his OE build for the hammer |
| 13:12.13 | prpplague | apparently LWE was packed with people wanting uboot+OE |
| 13:12.29 | prpplague | which makes no sense to me, but you have to give the customer what they want |
| 13:13.31 | g1powermac | ahh |
| 13:13.36 | g1powermac | hmm |
| 13:13.55 | g1powermac | which reminds me, I should poke around buildroot a bit |
| 13:15.13 | g1powermac | I've been looking through the code for this EMILE bootloader, and as usual, I'm confused as to how the original coder laid it out |
| 13:15.31 | g1powermac | has never been great at understanding someone else's code |
| 13:15.50 | prpplague | emile? |
| 13:16.12 | g1powermac | yea, its the m68k bootloader I want to help develop |
| 13:16.16 | prpplague | bootloader code is a little different from other types of code |
| 13:16.32 | prpplague | as it requires intimate knowledge of how the core processor works |
| 13:16.51 | g1powermac | of course |
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| 13:17.10 | g1powermac | morning GPSFan |
| 13:17.14 | prpplague | GPSFan: greetings earthling |
| 13:17.34 | prpplague | GPSFan: been out "visiting" your sheep this morning? hehe |
| 13:17.36 | g1powermac | prpplague, I'm just trying to figure out how all the libraries the original coder made fits together |
| 13:17.59 | g1powermac | there's 14 libraries in the source code |
| 13:18.14 | prpplague | wow thats pretty hefty for a bootloader |
| 13:18.27 | g1powermac | yea |
| 13:18.39 | g1powermac | I still don't see exactly how it all compiles together |
| 13:19.21 | GPSFan | prpplague: good morning |
| 13:19.27 | GPSFan | g1powermac: howdy |
| 13:21.24 | g1powermac | its made very much like lilo, so I'm guessing all the libraries get built into the EMILE tool set which is then used to produce the actual boot loader in the boot blocks and such |
| 13:33.55 | g1powermac | whats the best 3.x gcc to compile a 2.6 kernel? |
| 13:35.47 | GPSFan | 4.12? |
| 13:36.44 | g1powermac | why 4.12? |
| 13:38.20 | GPSFan | I've had much success building hammer & z2 kernels with 4.1.2 |
| 13:40.38 | g1powermac | well, I'm gonna try 4.3.1 just to see if I can make it cross compile for the m68k |
| 13:43.57 | GPSFan | it seems like there are so many versions of gcc out (some that even work "well") that it's a crap shoot as to which one is "best" for a classic processor. |
| 13:44.07 | g1powermac | yea |
| 13:47.35 | wmat | g1powermac: tried the CodeSOurcery Lite toolchain for Coldfire? |
| 13:47.52 | g1powermac | not yet |
| 13:47.57 | wmat | http://www.codesourcery.com/gnu_toolchains/coldfire/portal/subscription?@template=lite |
| 13:47.58 | g1powermac | really can't use a coldfire toolchain |
| 13:48.09 | g1powermac | is using legacy m68ks here in these macs |
| 13:48.13 | wmat | ah |
| 13:49.14 | g1powermac | well, gcc is compiling atm. . .hopefully it actually finishes :-) |
| 13:51.03 | g1powermac | http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/08/08/12/1117221.shtml |
| 13:51.05 | g1powermac | oh dear |
| 13:51.16 | g1powermac | obvious answer: give it all to me! :-) |
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| 13:53.12 | g1powermac | heya chouimat|work |
| 13:53.19 | chouimat|work | morning |
| 13:55.13 | g1powermac | loves freescale. . . |
| 13:55.45 | g1powermac | they will actually print out 1000 page pdfs, bind them, and ship them to you for no charge |
| 13:56.18 | chouimat|work | cool which pdfs? |
| 13:56.35 | g1powermac | pretty any of their docs |
| 13:56.59 | g1powermac | I got their huge m68k programmers reference manual |
| 13:57.23 | g1powermac | http://www2.hibbertgroup.com/freescale/main |
| 13:57.29 | g1powermac | ahh, phewy, gcc died |
| 13:58.33 | g1powermac | maybe I should go back a generation, gcc-3.4.6 |
| 14:03.46 | solar | g1powermac_PB: in a pinch. Here are a bunch of pre-compiled m68k apps. http://tinderbox.dev.gentoo.org/default-linux/m68k/All/ |
| 14:04.18 | g1powermac | solar, oh nice, thanks |
| 14:04.25 | g1powermac | though I need a gcc cross compiler |
| 14:05.04 | solar | sure. http://tinderbox.dev.gentoo.org/cross-x86/m68k-unknown-linux-gnu/All/gcc-3.4.5-r1.tbz2 |
| 14:05.36 | solar | unless you want uclibc based. http://tinderbox.dev.gentoo.org/cross-x86/m68k-gentoo-linux-uclibc/All/ |
| 14:05.55 | g1powermac | kewl, thanks |
| 14:09.44 | g1powermac | man, 3.4.6 died too |
| 14:09.57 | g1powermac | hmm, I would like to know why they aren't compiling |
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| 14:48.58 | chouimat|work | http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/12/lenovo-intros-the-monstrous-thinkpad-w700-and-we-get-our-hands/ |
| 14:51.19 | g1powermac | yea, that thing is nuts |
| 14:51.27 | chouimat|work | 2 hdd??? |
| 14:52.34 | chouimat|work | g1powermac I won't mind get one ... if someone else is paying for it :) |
| 14:55.17 | MothaWork | I'd love a color managed laptop display |
| 14:55.26 | MothaWork | can I get one with WQUXGA? |
| 14:55.31 | MothaWork | I'd be all over that |
| 14:56.09 | g1powermac | yay, finally I got a cross compilation chain |
| 14:56.32 | g1powermac | gave up on compiling and went for emdebian setup |
| 15:02.48 | solar | heh :) |
| 15:11.18 | Mirell | Hmm.. |
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| 16:04.02 | prpplague | any poky experts awake? |
| 16:06.29 | chouimat|work | http://failblog.org/2008/08/12/sign-fail-3/ |
| 16:06.31 | chouimat|work | oops |
| 16:09.00 | prpplague | bangs head on desk |
| 16:09.24 | prpplague | it takes me forever to get anything done with poky |
| 16:09.49 | adyer | laughs |
| 16:11.46 | adyer | I always thought using 'Poky' as a name was not too bright. |
| 16:13.48 | wmat | prpplague: what are you using poky for? |
| 16:13.58 | prpplague | the 8050 |
| 16:14.35 | prpplague | wmat: poky is really what is needed for it, but i have soooo much trouble customizing poky/oe |
| 16:14.44 | prpplague | wmat: it takes me forever to get anything done |
| 16:16.52 | wmat | i'd never even heard of poky before until right now |
| 16:17.29 | kergoth`work | morning |
| 16:17.41 | prpplague | kergoth`work: greetings |
| 16:17.58 | prpplague | kergoth`work: figured you'd popup when i started talking about oe, hehe |
| 16:18.03 | kergoth`work | just got to work |
| 16:18.16 | prpplague | wmat: poky is oe cousin if you will |
| 16:18.31 | wmat | yeah, i gathered that from the website |
| 16:18.46 | kergoth`work | OE has a steep learning curve. most people who get past that find it worthwhile, but there are a lot of aspects to grasp, so its difficult for a single person, particularly someone new to it, to fully understand it in its entirety.. certainly much more difficult than a simpler system like buildroot |
| 16:19.31 | kergoth`work | there's a reason i'm not going back to oe development, at least not like i used to.. i think it needs to be scrapped and rewritten. i still think its better than all the alternatives, but that's not saying much |
| 16:20.32 | kergoth`work | give me an example of something you're trying to change |
| 16:20.44 | kergoth`work | maybe i can help, i still understand all the aspects of the system |
| 16:21.33 | wmat | prpplague: poky looks like something in competition with CodeSoucery's Sourcercy G++ |
| 16:22.09 | kergoth`work | isn't codesourcery's stuff just a toolchain? |
| 16:22.17 | solar | ya |
| 16:22.47 | kergoth`work | poky is a linux distribution. OE is a set of metadata and associated tool for building a linux distribution. both are quite different from a toolchain |
| 16:22.48 | wmat | no, it includes emulation as well |
| 16:22.59 | prpplague | kergoth`work: i've added a couple additional packages to a task, task-poky-x11-sato.bb |
| 16:23.00 | wmat | SG++, that is |
| 16:23.12 | prpplague | kergoth`work: the packages get built, but are never added to the rootfs |
| 16:24.28 | kergoth`work | if you added it to the task's RDEPENDS then the ipk/deb/whatever for the task will depend on the pacakges you added, so when it gets installed into the rootfs, so will those packages |
| 16:24.46 | kergoth`work | but keep in mind that if you didnt' bump the PR/PV of the task, it likely wont automatically rebuild the ipk/deb/whatever for it with the new deps |
| 16:24.53 | kergoth`work | so either force a rebuild or bump PR |
| 16:25.30 | prpplague | ahhh, see, i would have never known that |
| 16:25.59 | kergoth`work | i'm sure both the bitbake and oe documentation cover it. package builds are managed with stamps, their existance indicates that a given step in the build for that package is complete |
| 16:26.07 | kergoth`work | not unlike stamps people create in makefiles for directory creation |
| 16:26.13 | kergoth`work | the stamp contains package name, version, and revision |
| 16:26.25 | kergoth`work | so bumping one of those will ensure that the stamps dont exist, so it has to rebuild |
| 16:26.45 | kergoth`work | to force a rebuild, you can use the rebuild task |
| 16:26.52 | prpplague | kergoth`work: yea, make is pretty good about detecting changes in the makefiles |
| 16:26.55 | kergoth`work | bitbake -c rebuild task-whatever |
| 16:26.58 | prpplague | kergoth`work: but i follow you now |
| 16:27.35 | kergoth`work | no, make doesn't rebuild based on makefile changes, only those that change what rules exist. |
| 16:27.38 | solar | kergoth: might be good if the mtime was aprt of that stamp |
| 16:27.45 | kergoth`work | which is why some buildsystems will depend on the Makefile |
| 16:28.31 | kergoth`work | solar: we thought about that at the beginning, but didn't necessarily want a touch to completely rebuild everything unnecessarily. personally, i think we shouldve hashed the metadata used for the package's build and use that, so any change of anything critical would force a rebuild |
| 16:28.32 | kergoth`work | but .. |
| 16:28.56 | kergoth`work | shrugs |
| 16:30.24 | solar | Only time I ever got it to work was with your help. But I'm always snagging the misc patches that come out of the oe-camp. |
| 16:30.51 | kergoth`work | i think the metadata use should be a bit more explicit. if a package wants to use a variable from otuside the recipe, it should have to either directly use it in a variable definition, or export it into the shell. then we could better track what packages use what variables, and automatically respond to changes thatd affect it |
| 16:31.57 | kergoth`work | anyway, i think it should go back to a more debian style method anyway, throw a .bb inside the package source tree, maintained in a git repo with a vendor branch and topic branches. i also think that oe shouldnt have needed a local metadata repo, but should have contacted an upstream server for it directly, and just cached it locally.. |
| 16:32.10 | kergoth`work | stops himself before he makes a list of all oe's shortcomings |
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| 16:33.00 | prpplague | kergoth`work: yea what i meant was if you change a makefile, and re-run make, you have a pretty good assurance that the changes are there and being looked at |
| 16:33.36 | prpplague | kergoth`work: my main problem, is i simply don't understand it well enough to accomplish what i need to do |
| 16:33.36 | kergoth`work | if you change the CFLAGS, you generally have to clean and rebuild. |
| 16:33.37 | kergoth`work | nod |
| 16:34.13 | prpplague | wow, its broke even worse than before |
| 16:36.44 | solar | prpplague: what target host are you dealing with for the 8050? |
| 16:36.59 | prpplague | solar: s3c2440, arm920t |
| 16:37.11 | solar | glibc eabi? |
| 16:37.17 | solar | softfloat? |
| 16:38.14 | prpplague | solar: glibc eabi |
| 16:43.49 | prpplague | hehe, my build is slowly self destructing |
| 16:49.56 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:51.45 | prpplague | kergoth`work: question, common sense would be to increase the rev number each time a change is made |
| 16:51.56 | prpplague | kergoth: what would happen if you decreased the number? |
| 16:54.11 | wmat | anyone play with the bug labs stuff yet? |
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| 16:55.01 | RobotGuy | Not I, but it looks real interesting after I've read more about it. |
| 16:55.58 | RobotGuy | TCT should do a real set of Tin Can Tools. :) |
| 16:57.41 | prpplague | kergoth`work: hmm, still not populating the rootfs with packages |
| 16:58.24 | kergoth`work | decreasing the number mgiht cause it to rebuild if the lower rev number's stamps dont exist, but it probably wouldnt go into the image, since a newer version of the package would exist |
| 16:58.33 | kergoth`work | okay, so look at the task's package |
| 16:58.38 | kergoth`work | tmp/deploy/ipk probably |
| 16:58.45 | kergoth`work | an ipk is like a deb, its a cpio file with tarballs inside |
| 16:58.54 | prpplague | kergoth`work: yep, both packages are there |
| 16:59.01 | kergoth`work | yank out the control file and make sur eit has the packages you added |
| 16:59.50 | kergoth`work | er, s/cpio/ar/ |
| 16:59.58 | prpplague | yea, already done, looking now |
| 16:59.58 | kergoth`work | silly me, getting used to using rpms in mv :P |
| 17:02.10 | prpplague | kergoth`work: yea both ipks for the packages are built, they have the correct contents and the task ipk has the two packages listed as part of the depends |
| 17:03.20 | kergoth`work | okay, and you've built the image package? |
| 17:03.25 | kergoth`work | the task just builds the "virtual package" |
| 17:03.29 | kergoth`work | it doesnt build a roto filesystem |
| 17:03.36 | kergoth`work | there are -image .bb's for that |
| 17:04.27 | prpplague | kergoth: poky builds a rootfs for reference by default |
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| 17:07.43 | kergoth`work | what do you mean? |
| 17:09.29 | prpplague | kergoth`work: when you do a bitbake task to build an image, a rootfs directory is generated |
| 17:10.07 | prpplague | under build/tmp/rootfs |
| 17:10.22 | kergoth`work | i know where root filesystems are built, thanks, i wrote the classes that did it |
| 17:10.36 | kergoth`work | grabs poky svn |
| 17:12.06 | prpplague | kergoth`work: ahh, didn't know if that was something different that what OE did |
| 17:12.25 | kergoth`work | like i said |
| 17:12.29 | kergoth`work | packages/tasks/ is the virtual packages |
| 17:12.32 | kergoth`work | packages/images/ is the images |
| 17:12.39 | kergoth`work | rebuildign a task wont install your packages into the rootfs |
| 17:12.44 | kergoth`work | you have to rebuild the image |
| 17:14.36 | prpplague | right, i'm calling this: bitbake -c rebuild poky-image-sato |
| 17:15.29 | prpplague | sorry, just bitbake poky-image-sato |
| 17:15.38 | kergoth`work | <kergoth`work> okay, and you've built the image package? |
| 17:15.42 | kergoth`work | the right answer to this is "yes" |
| 17:15.43 | kergoth`work | :P |
| 17:16.07 | prpplague | looks |
| 17:16.18 | prpplague | kergoth`work: sorry i thought i answered that question |
| 17:16.52 | kergoth`work | try checking the log for poky-image-sato, perhaps. should be able to see it installing each package |
| 17:17.10 | MothaWork | hum, somehow I seem to have taken down MySQL by issuing an ALTER TABLE that adds two columns to a 325 row table |
| 17:17.24 | MothaWork | said table is now inaccessable |
| 17:18.22 | kergoth`work | ouch |
| 17:21.48 | prpplague | kergoth`work: ahh yea, looks like its adding -dev at the end of the package name,i.e. mypackage-dev.ipk instead of mypackage.ipk |
| 17:23.22 | kergoth`work | its trying to install -dev.ipk, or your package made a -dev.ipk and its trying to install mypackage.ipk? |
| 17:23.23 | kergoth`work | see line 179 of meta/conf/bitbake.conf to see what filename patterns go into what packages by default |
| 17:24.40 | prpplague | kergoth`work: it generated both a mypackage.ipk and a mypackage-dev.ipk , and does install mypackage-dev.ipk, but the data.tar.gz for the mypackage-dev.ipk is empty |
| 17:27.42 | prpplague | kergoth`work: thanks for the help, i think i can track it down from here |
| 17:27.53 | kergoth`work | k, np |
| 17:47.41 | sunrunner20 | hows the weather by you prpplague? |
| 17:48.36 | prpplague | looks at the brickwall |
| 17:48.48 | prpplague | brown and low visibility |
| 17:48.52 | sunrunner20 | lol |
| 17:51.04 | sunrunner20 | no windows... lame |
| 18:03.54 | RobotGuy | 87.8 deg in DFW |
| 18:04.22 | solar | clear skys and sunny in the bay area 64F @ 11am |
| 18:04.34 | g1powermac | well, in the end, I went with a m68k buildroot :-) |
| 18:04.52 | solar | buildroot is always the fallback |
| 18:05.02 | g1powermac | yea |
| 18:05.15 | g1powermac | plus its what I really needed anyway |
| 18:05.17 | RobotGuy | 71.6 deg in SJC :) |
| 18:05.29 | g1powermac | 75F here |
| 18:05.40 | g1powermac | with some clouds and fairly low humidity |
| 18:05.58 | g1powermac | though this morning it was cold, down in the 50's |
| 18:06.41 | solar | RobotGuy: thanks. Looks like I need to set my weather applet to update more often |
| 18:07.02 | RobotGuy | solar: I just asked my bot. :) |
| 18:07.20 | prpplague | argh |
| 18:07.25 | prpplague | bangs head on desk |
| 18:07.50 | RobotGuy | applies soft rubber to prpplague's desk |
| 18:08.03 | prpplague | switches to the wall |
| 18:08.16 | g1powermac | puts spiked on the wall |
| 18:08.16 | RobotGuy | applies rubber mats to all prpplague's walls |
| 18:08.21 | g1powermac | *spikes |
| 18:08.27 | prpplague | g1powermac: there ya go |
| 18:08.41 | prpplague | i just can't understand where this coming from |
| 18:08.42 | g1powermac | prpplague, I knew you'd like that :-) |
| 18:10.11 | prpplague | no matter what i do, it still selects the -dev package |
| 18:13.43 | g1powermac | dang it, buildroot died too |
| 18:14.36 | g1powermac | and all I did was tell it to target m68k |
| 18:15.10 | g1powermac | wonders if anyone actually tests to see if it actually compiles when they make changes to it |
| 18:18.46 | RobotGuy | I wish the /usr/lib creation bug would get fixed in buildroot. |
| 18:19.32 | g1powermac | it died at compiling uclibc |
| 18:20.16 | RobotGuy | I am not having any problems with buildroot now. :) |
| 18:21.09 | g1powermac | brings out the buildroot that I used to create the zipit toolchain |
| 18:21.17 | RobotGuy | I don't think much, if any, testing happens when packages are changed in buildroot. It's easy to find stuff that won't build. |
| 18:22.25 | RobotGuy | I just need to figure out why my entire image is not being flashed to hammer. |
| 18:27.42 | g1powermac | http://news.slashdot.org/news/08/08/12/182243.shtml |
| 18:27.43 | g1powermac | amazing |
| 18:34.23 | RobotGuy | Sheesh, now openocd won't find my Hammer. |
| 18:35.17 | RobotGuy | rror: arm7_9_common.c:581 arm7_9_execute_sys_speed(): timeout waiting for SYSCOMP & DBGACK, last DBG_STATUS: 5 |
| 18:35.20 | RobotGuy | Over and over and over |
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| 18:43.40 | solar | unplug the device and plug it back it |
| 18:43.44 | solar | in |
| 18:46.14 | chouimat|work | I hate my job today |
| 18:55.34 | RobotGuy | I'm on the hammer carrier board now. |
| 18:55.55 | RobotGuy | No change |
| 18:57.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: smoke another hammer? |
| 18:57.57 | prpplague | RobotGuy: post the full openocd log |
| 19:09.35 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: 7 hours to get one package going |
| 19:09.38 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: fun fun |
| 19:10.06 | chouimat|work | solar ping |
| 19:12.41 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/1168461 |
| 19:13.49 | prpplague | RobotGuy: looks like maybe its being held in reset |
| 19:14.00 | RobotGuy | prpplague: How? |
| 19:14.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you been swapping it in/out of the dip socket? |
| 19:14.07 | kergoth`work | man, i wish rxvt-unicode's daemon supported detaching like screen |
| 19:14.08 | RobotGuy | prpplague: No |
| 19:14.34 | RobotGuy | I have no need to remove the Hammer from either the hammer carrier or nail boards now. |
| 19:14.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: all of your hammer boards doing this or just one? |
| 19:15.08 | RobotGuy | prpplague: This is the only one I've tried today - on the hammer carrier. |
| 19:15.21 | prpplague | RobotGuy: might try anothe |
| 19:15.22 | prpplague | r |
| 19:15.58 | ds2 | is RobotGuy the enviromental/long term test arm of TCT? ;) |
| 19:16.25 | prpplague | points to RobotGuy |
| 19:16.41 | prpplague | ds2: we've only had two reported hammer failures, both from RobotGuy |
| 19:17.03 | ds2 | prpplague: hence the question ;) if it survives, the design mustbe good |
| 19:17.04 | MothaWork | prpplague: :) |
| 19:17.16 | MothaWork | user error? |
| 19:17.19 | MothaWork | (replace user?) |
| 19:17.57 | RobotGuy | prpplague: This one seems to be working so far. |
| 19:18.41 | prpplague | RobotGuy: either you've smoked it or you've got something soldered onto the carrier that causing a short |
| 19:21.46 | g1powermac | yay, older buildroot built the m68k toolchain |
| 19:25.52 | g1powermac | but now there's nothing in the staging dir |
| 19:25.55 | g1powermac | *sigh* |
| 19:27.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.pastebin.ca/1168491 (was in wrong dir before) |
| 19:27.48 | g1powermac | prpplague, do you know why buildroot wouldn't stick the toolchain binaries in the staging_dir? |
| 19:27.49 | kergoth`work | grr |
| 19:28.34 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Look for .installed files in the toolchain build dir and delete them |
| 19:28.37 | prpplague | g1powermac: there is an option for that |
| 19:28.59 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hmm looks like you are talking but have something wrong with your openocd |
| 19:29.05 | g1powermac | prpplague, ahh, hmm, now the question is, whats the name of the option ;-) |
| 19:29.24 | RobotGuy | prpplague: This is not the tct supported openocd - it's the gentoo version from svn |
| 19:29.26 | prpplague | g1powermac: do a make menuconfig, it has the options listed |
| 19:29.33 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ahh |
| 19:29.43 | g1powermac | prpplague, I know, I'm looking at them now |
| 19:31.51 | g1powermac | hrmm |
| 19:32.10 | g1powermac | the toolchain and header file location option is set correctly |
| 19:34.01 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, and there is no .installed files |
| 19:36.28 | g1powermac | prpplague, there's directories in the staging_dir like there should be, bin and others |
| 19:36.40 | g1powermac | but only 'makedevs' is in bin |
| 19:38.00 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: You may have to rebuild your toolchain after removing toolchain_build_arm |
| 19:38.20 | RobotGuy | I've had to do that a few times. |
| 19:38.29 | g1powermac | this was a fresh build using a fresh sourch |
| 19:38.32 | g1powermac | *source |
| 19:39.00 | RobotGuy | I usually just nuke build_arm project_build_arm and toolchain_build_arm before a toolchain rebuild. |
| 19:39.16 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: I've been there more times than I can count. |
| 19:39.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ugh? why |
| 19:39.56 | RobotGuy | There are . files that can hang around and mess stuff up. |
| 19:40.09 | prpplague | RobotGuy: there should be no need for that |
| 19:40.10 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Because it's easier for me to just start from scratch. |
| 19:40.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that wastes alot of time |
| 19:40.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I don't care about time |
| 19:40.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: thats probably why you have so much trouble with buildroot breaking |
| 19:41.40 | kergoth`work | hmm, nice to see the new buildroots make use of the new gmake features, like the ability to create rules in a variable definition |
| 19:46.43 | RobotGuy | deletes everything, reformats, and loads Windows XP |
| 19:46.59 | chouimat|work | interesting http://markstechnologynews.blogspot.com/2008/08/photofast-cr-9000-build-low-cost-ssd.html |
| 19:47.27 | g1powermac | still doesn't get why nothing shows up in the staging_dir |
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| 19:50.08 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Did you update your fakeroot version to 1.9.3 in buildroot/packages/fakeroot/fakeroot.mk ? |
| 19:52.49 | prpplague | g1powermac: are you using the tincantools buildroot version, or something older? |
| 19:57.08 | g1powermac | prpplague, I'm using a svn buildroot from april |
| 19:58.30 | g1powermac | this buildroot does work to make the zipit toolchain |
| 19:58.57 | g1powermac | but if I remember right, there's something about the config file that GPSFan sent me |
| 19:59.16 | g1powermac | I think I had similar problems when I tried making my own config file on this buildroot |
| 20:00.06 | prpplague | anyone a util to convert .h header images to png? |
| 20:00.36 | MothaWork | imagemagick and netpbmtools don't have one? |
| 20:00.50 | prpplague | MothaWork: hmm, not sure |
| 20:00.51 | ds2 | isn't that an xbm or similiar? if so xv, imagemagik, netpbm, etc all should do it |
| 20:00.57 | MothaWork | xpm |
| 20:01.01 | MothaWork | that's very similar to an xpm |
| 20:01.08 | prpplague | checks the man page |
| 20:02.05 | prpplague | hmm i have a xpmtoppm |
| 20:02.25 | prpplague | wonders if gimp will do it |
| 20:02.26 | MothaWork | then you do ppmtopng |
| 20:02.34 | MothaWork | that's how netpbmtools work |
| 20:02.44 | MothaWork | and gimp may. GIMP should be able to load xpms |
| 20:05.45 | prpplague | hmm, neither gimp not xpm is doing it |
| 20:06.15 | MothaWork | you may have to massage it a bit to get it into a format compatible with xpm |
| 20:06.28 | MothaWork | people often invent their own structures for doing images in .h files |
| 20:07.04 | prpplague | ahh this appears to be a gdk pixbuf |
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| 20:10.23 | MothaWork | gimp may load that |
| 20:15.18 | g1powermac | well, I'll try this again with GPSFan's config but modified for m68k |
| 20:17.02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ping |
| 20:19.07 | CosmicPenguin | yodilay |
| 20:20.09 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i made some test changes to source of a package that is already been built, can i recompile it without it overwriting my changes with: bitbake -c compile myapp |
| 20:20.59 | CosmicPenguin | bitbake -c compile --force myapp |
| 20:21.06 | CosmicPenguin | the --force ignores the stamp |
| 20:21.23 | prpplague | ahh |
| 20:22.49 | CosmicPenguin | I use that all the time |
| 20:22.54 | CosmicPenguin | better then setting up a SDK |
| 20:30.57 | g1powermac | yay, I see stuff in the staging dir now |
| 20:31.12 | g1powermac | I really need to figure out what GPSFan has done to his buildroot config to make it wor |
| 20:31.17 | g1powermac | *work |
| 21:04.30 | ds2 | are there any words of wisdom regarding using a single long screw and a bunch of unthreaded spacers vs using a stack of individual threaded standoffs? (non production) |
| 21:07.18 | MothaWork | ds2: usually works fine, though interconnects that are based on stack height are subjected to a little more stress |
| 21:07.28 | MothaWork | for production, threaded standoffs are faster and more reliable, of course |
| 21:11.21 | ds2 | cool, just wanted to see if I will be in a lot of misery |
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| 23:47.21 | solar | Generally if a circuit called for a capacitor of a given NNN uF at XXX Volts and you can't match the voltage exactly with the parts on hand. It is more important to match the uF vs the voltage? |
| 23:49.49 | RobotGuy | solar, Yes |
| 23:50.24 | RobotGuy | You should get as close to the listed voltage without going under. |
| 23:52.24 | MonMotha | in many cases, there is no harm in vastly exceeding the specified voltage rating |
| 23:52.47 | MonMotha | though a key parameter (ESR) often changes with voltage rating and isn't usually specified as part of the cap spec in the original circuit |
| 23:53.29 | MonMotha | going under the specified voltage rating is often very bad, though, and any change in capacitance will usually cause problems, but the kind of problems can vary from minor to "doesn't work" |
| 23:54.57 | solar | so using a 100uF @ 25V with the 1N4001 here should be fine? http://www.instructables.com/id/Self-Sufficient-Arduino-Board/ |
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