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| 00:42.56 | landley | Building glibc under uClibc is unpleasant. |
| 00:43.30 | g1powermac | landley, yea, that should be umm, interesting |
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| 01:12.08 | ds2 | for the enc28j60, is CS, RESET, and CLKOUT required connections or can they be tied to a fixed state? |
| 01:13.44 | RobotGuy | Why would you want to tie RESET? You should let it be reset on a system reset. |
| 01:25.29 | ds2 | query |
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| 02:47.38 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i have a great one for you!!!! |
| 02:47.42 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin job listing |
| 02:48.07 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin "Knowledge of state-of-the-art UI toolkits that are publicly available. Notably, Qt, FLTK, SDL, nano-X, Microwindows, etc." |
| 02:48.31 | prpplague | wtf? state of the art + nano-x? |
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| 02:51.10 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have an eight servo controller working on my Arduino now, setup for serial control from a host - any host. :) |
| 02:52.00 | RobotGuy | It's just a very basic not real smart move the servos controller at present. |
| 02:52.18 | ds2 | is the company located at the end of a of a wormhole? |
| 02:52.48 | RobotGuy | quickly hides his portable wormhole. |
| 02:53.07 | ds2 | RobotGuy: you watch PBS? |
| 02:53.41 | RobotGuy | ds2: I used to. No TV here now though. |
| 02:53.59 | prpplague | tv is evil |
| 02:54.11 | ds2 | RobotGuy: the portable wormhole thing was used there as an example of potentially how time travel could work |
| 02:54.50 | dbtid | i'm travelling through time, right now; i choose to go one second at a time, forwards; what's the big deal?? |
| 02:55.29 | ds2 | prpplague: do you know if reset is needed on the enc28j thing? |
| 02:56.10 | prpplague | ds2 yea, the reset is indeed needed |
| 02:56.24 | prpplague | ds2 you can do a software reset, but i've found that is not always perfect |
| 02:56.29 | ds2 | prpplague: okay, what about the so call "clock out" signal? |
| 02:56.39 | prpplague | ds2 nope |
| 02:56.42 | ds2 | trying to figure out how many level translators i need to wire |
| 02:56.43 | prpplague | ds2 no need for that |
| 02:57.12 | ds2 | okay so I have - MISO, MOSI, IRQ, SPICLK, RESET, and WOL, anything else I need ? |
| 02:57.13 | prpplague | ds2 min is 1 eint, 1 sdo, 1 sdi, 1 sclk, 3.3v and ground |
| 02:57.28 | prpplague | wol is optional |
| 02:57.30 | ds2 | IRQ is not needed? Hmmm |
| 02:57.40 | ds2 | nevermind |
| 02:57.41 | prpplague | eint==irq |
| 02:57.43 | ds2 | eint == irq |
| 02:57.57 | prpplague | the reset i usually tie to the system reset |
| 02:58.02 | ds2 | WOL could be useful |
| 02:58.13 | ds2 | no reset handy, I'll put it on a GPIO |
| 02:58.14 | prpplague | the power on reset is acceptable |
| 02:58.24 | ds2 | the driver doesn't need to toggle it? |
| 02:58.41 | prpplague | ds2 not the one i wrote |
| 02:58.54 | prpplague | ds2 that is usually just the software reset |
| 02:59.11 | ds2 | ah |
| 02:59.23 | ds2 | maybe I can wire up a local RC on the reset then |
| 02:59.31 | prpplague | yea |
| 02:59.36 | prpplague | ds2 easy enough to do |
| 03:00.07 | prpplague | ds2 you using a particular module or doing a custom device? |
| 03:00.09 | ds2 | I might have enough level converters since I am using hex inverters |
| 03:00.21 | prpplague | 5v device? |
| 03:00.36 | ds2 | prpplague: going to try a ``quick'' experiment with the sparkfun module first then go further if it works |
| 03:00.40 | ds2 | no 1.8V :( |
| 03:00.52 | ds2 | 3.3V to 5V is easier |
| 03:03.39 | prpplague | ahh |
| 03:03.48 | prpplague | yea the olimex module is pretty good |
| 03:03.58 | prpplague | over priced, but good |
| 03:03.59 | solar | evening |
| 03:04.10 | prpplague | solar greetings |
| 03:04.22 | prpplague | throws empty beer bottles at solar |
| 03:04.35 | solar | thanks. any new products of interest today? |
| 03:04.37 | ds2 | does digikey/mouser stock the right magnetics for this? |
| 03:04.45 | ds2 | otherwise, I don't want to chase down magnetics |
| 03:04.59 | prpplague | ds2 yea they do |
| 03:05.05 | ds2 | Hmmm |
| 03:05.12 | prpplague | ds2 tomw can give you scoup on what to order |
| 03:05.16 | prpplague | solar nothing today |
| 03:05.37 | prpplague | solar just looking at using the HP20b as a terminal for a hammer |
| 03:05.50 | solar | on an unrealated note. I picked up 100 6mm N40 magents last week from dealextreme |
| 03:06.10 | ds2 | I think a quick proto with the olimex so at least i have a known working layout; my "tricks" even at 10MHz could be fatal :( |
| 03:06.21 | ds2 | prpplague: there is apps for the HP48 already |
| 03:07.20 | prpplague | ds2 48 or 20? |
| 03:07.22 | prpplague | solar nice |
| 03:07.31 | ds2 | HP48, the bigger brother |
| 03:07.52 | ds2 | it uses the same cable as the HP200 cable (comes with the adapter so either one can use it) |
| 03:07.54 | prpplague | ds2 might send a message to mr.herod, he has been talking about doing a enc28j60 module |
| 03:07.57 | solar | prpplague: good deak toy |
| 03:08.00 | solar | desk |
| 03:09.01 | RobotGuy | solar: Greets |
| 03:09.45 | prpplague | ds2 ahh ok, i was looking at the hp20b since they just released all the data including schematics |
| 03:10.00 | solar | RobotGuy: evening. Get your code working? |
| 03:10.36 | RobotGuy | solar: Aye, I did, and thanks for getting me past that bug. I have it set for 8 servos now and only 3K of code. |
| 03:12.57 | RobotGuy | solar: It will be very easy to turn this into a generalized controller, and it is already setup to recieve commands via the serial port. ;) |
| 03:13.21 | RobotGuy | It could be used with any host - Hammer, PC, another Arduino, etc. |
| 03:14.44 | RobotGuy | I didn't know until today that the Pololu LV-168 controller is Arduino compatible. |
| 03:16.11 | RobotGuy | solar: You want my current pde? |
| 03:16.22 | solar | is it broke? |
| 03:16.42 | RobotGuy | solar: Nope, works perfectly although I have not yet tested the serial control stuff. |
| 03:17.04 | solar | did my changes for you work as well as expected? |
| 03:17.22 | solar | from reading the code it looks like you have to type. |
| 03:17.25 | solar | 255 |
| 03:17.31 | RobotGuy | Yes, they worked wonderfully, and thanks. I've implemented the array of struct setup. |
| 03:17.32 | solar | 700 |
| 03:18.06 | RobotGuy | 3K of code for basic 8 servo control. |
| 03:18.14 | solar | the suggested multi-array? did you additional add name support for the arrays? |
| 03:18.37 | RobotGuy | solar: Array of struct which has all the data for each servo. |
| 03:18.54 | RobotGuy | So I have servo[1].pin, etc. |
| 03:20.07 | ds2 | ack.. no low Vthres FETs from local sources |
| 03:23.03 | ds2 | to put a button on the hammer, is an external pull up needed? |
| 03:23.59 | prpplague | ds2 one sec |
| 03:24.21 | ds2 | got plenty of things to flesh out |
| 03:26.07 | prpplague | ds2 http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_Button_Driver |
| 03:26.47 | ds2 | thought the SC24xx had internal pullups? |
| 03:27.31 | prpplague | it does, but its's always better to depend on externals |
| 03:28.31 | ds2 | unless you also have to point to point wire it ;) |
| 03:28.56 | ds2 | I'll follow recommendations, no time to screw around |
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| 05:56.29 | RobotGuy | How much of a piece of software has to be modified before it becomes a unique work? |
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| 06:57.20 | methril | morning |
| 06:57.27 | methril | yo RobotGuy |
| 07:03.35 | RobotGuy | methril: oy |
| 07:04.01 | methril | you get late to bed ;) |
| 07:05.03 | RobotGuy | I am supposed to go to bed? |
| 07:05.43 | methril | i don't know, yoe were in USA, isn't it? |
| 07:06.00 | RobotGuy | Yes, that's where I am. :) West coast USA. |
| 07:06.02 | methril | i think that is late there :) |
| 07:06.17 | RobotGuy | Yep. but it depends on your reference. :) |
| 07:06.26 | RobotGuy | Point of reference. |
| 07:06.32 | methril | how is your W.A.L.T.E.R growing? |
| 07:06.33 | methril | :) |
| 07:06.52 | RobotGuy | WALTER is stalled at present. My main PC is sick. :( |
| 07:07.11 | methril | ups!! |
| 07:07.33 | methril | i know that feeling, it happens to me sometims :( |
| 07:08.02 | RobotGuy | Something is wrong with the hard drives, hard drive controller, or motherboard. :( |
| 07:08.31 | RobotGuy | Both my PCs are over 6 years old. |
| 07:08.50 | methril | yes, and with hot, sometimes, if you didn't spent some $$ in the cooling system, you got Hot CPU |
| 07:09.18 | RobotGuy | Some of the parts, like the hard drives are almost 10 years old. |
| 07:10.01 | methril | maybe you need to buy some new HW |
| 07:10.46 | RobotGuy | That goes without saying, but that takes $$ I do not have. I would basically have to buy all new stuff because connectors have changed, etc. |
| 07:11.20 | methril | <PROTECTED> |
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| 07:11.29 | RobotGuy | Yep, that's for sure. |
| 07:12.19 | methril | ask tinycantools people to support your new hw ;) |
| 07:12.33 | methril | you are helping them a lot :) |
| 07:12.45 | methril | ask is free hehe |
| 07:13.08 | RobotGuy | Yeah, I know. TCT has already supported me with Hammer stuff. |
| 07:13.24 | methril | was a suggestion |
| 07:13.32 | RobotGuy | I know. :) |
| 07:14.10 | methril | maybe my english is not really good and i can't express all the things as i'd like |
| 07:14.16 | methril | sorry for that |
| 07:14.32 | RobotGuy | I understand you just fine. :) |
| 07:31.25 | [AD]Turbo | hola |
| 07:32.18 | RobotGuy | G'Day |
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| 08:16.49 | RobotGuy | OK, somebody here has to do some typing. If you don't, I will just start typing nonsense, and it will get worse the more I type so get to it now before I try making the longest sentence ever created by rambling on and on until one of you stops me or I start typing about robots. |
| 08:20.11 | RobotGuy | Or maybe I will just decide to go to bed instead and see if I can get some sleep before I get new toys later today which are some QVGA color display. which has one that has a touch screen to allow interactions without a keyboard, and I also got a Wiimote which has some cool features like an accelerometer and buttons and an I2C expansion port for gadgets like the Nunchuk and other amazing game controlling things. |
| 08:25.35 | RobotGuy | I've been working on code for my Arduino, which is about the coolest little controller board I have seen which uses the Atmel Atmega168 processor that is in a 28 pin DIP and has a bootloader installed to allow loading "sketches" into the chip over USB to make it do cool things like control multiple servos for all kinds of uses including roboticts and physical computing which is a whole new cool movement to bring technology to our |
| 08:25.35 | RobotGuy | daily lives doing very cool things. |
| 08:26.21 | mbuf | nice |
| 08:34.41 | RobotGuy | Hi |
| 08:38.09 | RobotGuy | Well, OK, I guess I will go to bed and try to get some sleep so I can wake up and continue working on my little robot controller software for the Arduino so I can enter the robot into some contests and maybe win some cool stuff or credits to buy cool stuff I want to use to make my robots better and to create more crazy robots to amuse and entertain and maybe even help people. |
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| 12:12.03 | solar | morn * |
| 12:12.18 | chouimat | hi solar |
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| 13:24.50 | frikker_ | s |
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| 13:46.26 | prpplague | greetings earthlings |
| 13:46.37 | dbtid | what about us venetians? |
| 13:46.43 | chouimat|work | hi great old one |
| 13:47.18 | prpplague | dbtid: venetians are rude to tourists, so i don't greet them |
| 13:47.36 | dbtid | :( |
| 13:47.50 | prpplague | dbtid: greetings anyway, hehe |
| 13:48.04 | dbtid | not ruder than the martians!! they EAT people sometimes (after appropriate grokking, true). |
| 14:09.36 | g1powermac | heya prpplague and GPSFan |
| 14:09.47 | prpplague | g1powermac: greetings |
| 14:10.13 | g1powermac | prpplague, so I got my old mac developers books yesterday |
| 14:10.28 | prpplague | nice |
| 14:10.29 | g1powermac | and its quite interesting reading how the old macs work |
| 14:10.49 | g1powermac | realistically the whole OS is embedded in the ROM, the rest is piled on top of it |
| 14:11.13 | g1powermac | which really leads me to wonder why the linux port is so poorly implemented |
| 14:11.44 | g1powermac | the ROM routines are clearly documented and can be used by the linux kernel |
| 14:11.49 | g1powermac | to drive the hardware |
| 14:12.16 | g1powermac | thats exactly how this EMILE bootloader works |
| 14:12.24 | g1powermac | it takes full advantage of the ROM code |
| 14:21.53 | g1powermac | GPSFan, hows the packing coming for the macs? |
| 14:29.44 | wmat | prpplague: you OK with sticking with the discuss list for device hacking for now? |
| 14:30.06 | prpplague | wmat: yea, we can do that |
| 14:30.33 | wmat | thx |
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| 14:43.49 | MothaWork | g1powermac: many ports of Linux have this thing about not using ROM code |
| 14:44.04 | MothaWork | g1powermac: probably because, in the PC world, it's so often terribly restrictive and broken |
| 14:44.21 | g1powermac | MothaWork, ahh |
| 14:44.38 | g1powermac | well, the mac rom definitely is far from restrictive |
| 14:45.05 | g1powermac | broken? that may be an issue especially with the differences between models |
| 14:45.21 | g1powermac | though apple had to keep it all backward compatible for obvious reasons |
| 14:46.21 | MothaWork | I think it also stems from Linux wanting architecture code to be system agnostic |
| 14:46.36 | MothaWork | that is, they try not to make assumptions that all x86 machines are PCs, for example |
| 14:46.46 | g1powermac | ahh |
| 14:47.12 | MothaWork | however, that means that you have to reimplement things that are often in ROM code since there's no longer a portable way to call said code, and not all systems are guaranteed to have the same functions in their ROM code |
| 14:47.37 | MothaWork | for example, on ARM, Linux pretty much re-inits everything from scratch |
| 14:48.03 | MothaWork | all the bootloader really has to do is get the compressed kernel into RAM, set up a small struct that identifies what type of machine the system is, and jump into the boot stub |
| 14:48.21 | g1powermac | ahh, so its basically redoing everything |
| 14:48.35 | MothaWork | oh, and interrupts have to be off and the system has to be in supervisor mode (which is the reset conditions) |
| 14:48.38 | MothaWork | pretty much |
| 14:48.41 | MothaWork | it does that on most archs |
| 14:50.00 | g1powermac | well, now I see why most of the stuff isn't working then |
| 14:54.17 | g1powermac | you know, it would be kinda neat to build an mini OS around using the mac rom |
| 14:54.31 | g1powermac | kinda of a mac os clone of sorts |
| 14:54.57 | g1powermac | $diety knows I got a enough documentation to pull it off. . . |
| 15:02.09 | prpplague | g1powermac: surprised you are spending so much time on the macs, i figured you'd be working on some arm based devices |
| 15:25.31 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
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| 15:26.14 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: greetings |
| 15:32.06 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you started playing with your ardiuno yet? |
| 15:32.18 | g1powermac | prpplague, I've always had a keen interest in how macs works, just now I actually have the ability to figure it out |
| 15:32.52 | g1powermac | prpplague, but yea, I'll be going back to working on the zipit again shortly |
| 15:33.43 | prpplague | solar: ping |
| 15:36.40 | g1powermac | prpplague, either way, it still forces me to learn things that I can use later on, especially with the linux device drivers |
| 15:40.18 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: never got an arduino |
| 15:43.11 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: oh, i thought you ordered one for the your halloween animatronics |
| 15:43.34 | CosmicPenguin | nope, I got a parallaxunit |
| 15:44.02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: a stamp? |
| 15:44.05 | CosmicPenguin | yep |
| 15:44.16 | prpplague | ahh |
| 15:44.38 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: and you are using their basic language? |
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| 15:44.42 | CosmicPenguin | yes |
| 15:45.20 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you feel comfortable with the syntax and accessing the gpio and such using that? |
| 15:45.32 | CosmicPenguin | sure - but I'm no newbie here |
| 15:46.23 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hmm, thanks for the info |
| 15:46.44 | prpplague | g1powermac: you know very many people over in ##microcontrollers doing arduino ? |
| 15:46.54 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: remember, I do a wide variety of things in my role as general purpose geek |
| 15:47.04 | g1powermac | actually, the only person I know using an arduino is RobotGuy |
| 15:47.13 | CosmicPenguin | I do BIOS, which is direct mapped to hardware, I do OS which is abstracted, I do some microcontroller work |
| 15:47.14 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: indeed, which is why i wanted to ask you about your experience |
| 15:47.26 | g1powermac | ##microcontrollers has been very quiet lately |
| 15:47.33 | prpplague | hmm |
| 15:47.48 | prpplague | wonder if their is an arduino channel |
| 15:47.51 | g1powermac | especially with me being here most of the time |
| 15:48.00 | CosmicPenguin | probably is, but not on freenode |
| 15:48.02 | prpplague | ahh indeed there is |
| 15:48.10 | prpplague | big channel |
| 15:48.11 | CosmicPenguin | stands correted |
| 15:48.40 | prpplague | hmm |
| 15:48.50 | prpplague | wonders if he should discuss his idea |
| 15:49.34 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i was thinking about having creating some lib's where you could compile arduino code for the hammer |
| 15:49.40 | CosmicPenguin | That might be neat |
| 15:49.51 | CosmicPenguin | run it directly from the bootloader? |
| 15:50.07 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: actually i was thinking more like just a elf app |
| 15:50.19 | prpplague | s/app/bin |
| 15:50.24 | g1powermac | prpplague, that'd be interesting |
| 15:50.34 | CosmicPenguin | so you would put it in an emulation environment? |
| 15:51.09 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i did a sampling of the c code for the arduino stuff, i was able to take the blink.c app and compile it pretty easy for the hammer |
| 15:51.58 | CosmicPenguin | but is your intent to compile "off the shelf" software? |
| 15:52.08 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: http://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/Blink |
| 15:52.22 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: or atleast make the environment very very similiar |
| 15:52.25 | CosmicPenguin | you would eventually need a layer that emulated the decimilla and redirected the GPIOs to the right spots on the hammer? |
| 15:52.32 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea |
| 15:52.37 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i can do that in the lib |
| 15:52.48 | CosmicPenguin | right - that was I was asking - its emulationish |
| 15:53.07 | CosmicPenguin | no, thats a pretty good idea |
| 15:53.14 | prpplague | yea, like the function call for digitalWrite(ledPin, HIGH) |
| 15:53.35 | prpplague | just have that function in the lib, but matched with hammer pins and linux os handling |
| 15:53.41 | CosmicPenguin | You could even take it much further, and take it to the assembly level |
| 15:54.05 | CosmicPenguin | In fact, the coreboot guys would be pretty interested in something like that |
| 15:54.26 | CosmicPenguin | anything with a bank of GPIOs |
| 15:54.57 | prpplague | yea, have a definition file which maps the arduino pins to existing pins |
| 15:55.31 | CosmicPenguin | I think that would be good fun |
| 15:55.41 | CosmicPenguin | I would totally think about using that for coreboot + geode |
| 15:55.49 | prpplague | you could almost have it as a class device, and then just use a standard lib to access the device node |
| 15:56.43 | prpplague | decides to spend some more time researching this |
| 15:57.12 | kergoth`work | morning |
| 15:57.17 | prpplague | kergoth`work: greetings |
| 15:57.17 | CosmicPenguin | There is probably an ardrino emulator or two in teh world |
| 15:57.41 | prpplague | kergoth`work: i read over your list of OE issues, pretty accurate accounting |
| 15:57.45 | CosmicPenguin | you could use that to base your work and see what parts of the hardware you need to swizzle |
| 15:57.46 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: already checked |
| 15:57.57 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: there are few people that have talked about it |
| 15:58.03 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: but none working |
| 15:58.09 | kergoth`work | prpplague: cool, let me know if you think of anything i'm missing. if i do decide to redo things, we want to consider everything with a new design |
| 15:58.12 | CosmicPenguin | any code is better then none |
| 15:58.16 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: indeed |
| 15:59.36 | prpplague | kergoth`work: the only items that i didn't see (or missed) were mention of distro compatible testing, i.e. use tools that are found on most distros |
| 16:00.14 | prpplague | kergoth`work: and being able to generate "micro" oe distros for quick testing |
| 16:00.25 | kergoth`work | ah, yeah, i was going to bring that up.. i was actually leaning toward the tool being able to query the host package manager to learn about native tool availability, if possible |
| 16:00.43 | kergoth`work | i'd also like to see if anyone's written a tool to scan shell code for portability issues |
| 16:00.43 | solar | need to build up a large binary repo set if you want quick anything. building everytime is for the birds |
| 16:00.52 | kergoth`work | agreed |
| 16:04.06 | prpplague | indeed, but like for buildroot, i can do a very very minimal build, just the toolchain, busybox and maybe a few dev utils |
| 16:04.37 | prpplague | i'd like to be able to do that with OE/poky without having do the initial build of everything |
| 16:05.05 | prpplague | (maybe you can and i just don't know how) |
| 16:05.26 | prpplague | solar: you follow my conversation with CosmicPenguin about the arduino? |
| 16:05.36 | kergoth`work | chuckles at today's c-a-d |
| 16:05.53 | solar | prpplague: easiser to use GPIO's would be very cool. digitalWrite(pin, value); as some things are not simple HIGH and LOW. (More complete example also) http://dev.gentoo.org/~solar/embedded/main.pde |
| 16:06.17 | prpplague | looks |
| 16:07.26 | prpplague | solar: when you compile that, you compile against lib? |
| 16:07.31 | prpplague | i/a |
| 16:07.55 | solar | prpplague: just avr-libc. I pass no extra linker values. But let me show ya what it looks like my from POV |
| 16:08.15 | prpplague | solar: yea, thats what i thought |
| 16:09.47 | solar | http://rafb.net/p/vW9rUn12.html |
| 16:10.50 | solar | but there are additional libs they have. Think one for Servos and something called Wire. But those did not work for me so well. So back to the basics. |
| 16:11.22 | solar | the handling they have of serial is kinda funny. You have serialWrite() and Serial.write() |
| 16:11.38 | prpplague | yea was looking at that |
| 16:11.57 | solar | I can't tell much of a diff. But I'm guessing the Serial.* one is a c++ lib on the backend. Perhaps a bit smarter about knowing if something is actually connected to the serial port or not |
| 16:12.50 | prpplague | yea, this looks totally doable |
| 16:12.57 | solar | whats the total number of direct gpio pins one could use off a hammer platform (no I2C) ? |
| 16:14.03 | solar | looks like a Nail. 40 pins. But it's not a Nail. I'm kinda impressed at the number of gpio pins. http://sanguino.cc/ |
| 16:14.13 | prpplague | solar: 30 pins that could be used for gpio |
| 16:14.57 | solar | either analog or digital pins? |
| 16:15.16 | prpplague | solar: 30 digital + 2 analog |
| 16:15.31 | prpplague | solar: comparing the pins to the atmega168 now |
| 16:15.43 | solar | has lots of questions cuz well I'd probably like to help out with it |
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| 16:16.16 | prpplague | solar: yea, i think is the app that the hammer has been needing |
| 16:16.50 | solar | the rest of the arduino env the best I can tell is a silly un-needed java IDE. |
| 16:16.52 | prpplague | ahh ok the atmega168 is the same as the atmega48 |
| 16:17.01 | solar | pinput? |
| 16:17.09 | solar | think I read it's the same as the avr32 |
| 16:17.31 | prpplague | solar: http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/Product_card.asp?part_id=3303 |
| 16:18.20 | prpplague | from what i can tell most arduino boards use a atmega168 |
| 16:19.04 | solar | yes. At one time it used the atmega8 with is supposed to be pin for pin compat |
| 16:19.12 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: it would also be interested to make the code run directly from the bootloader |
| 16:19.35 | CosmicPenguin | That would give you a chance to sell the hardware to the non-OS freaks as well |
| 16:19.52 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: indeed, i was looking at that as well |
| 16:20.24 | solar | sounds like quite a bit of work. have to build your klibc alike quiv from the ground up |
| 16:21.08 | solar | prpplague: one thing that I think I'm growing to like is actually sodering. Dunno a DIY hammer board might be cool. |
| 16:21.57 | prpplague | solar: not sure i understand your statement |
| 16:23.06 | solar | prpplague: bare bones nail boards. No SMD stuff. You sell the DIY kits with all the parts end users need. Something like so. http://moderndevice.com/ |
| 16:23.51 | prpplague | solar: ahh, totally not practical, most people have trouble doing 603 packages, no way the avergage joe is going to do 402's |
| 16:24.25 | solar | much research what that means. sec |
| 16:24.49 | prpplague | solar: the size of the resistors/capacitors |
| 16:25.11 | solar | oh yeah. Did I say no SMD |
| 16:25.28 | solar | or are they just that small no matter what? |
| 16:26.35 | prpplague | yea, to get it on the hammer, it has to be 402's which generally require a microscope to put on by hand |
| 16:27.07 | solar | prpplague: not the hammer itself. TCT should sell those. I'm simply talking about the carriers. |
| 16:27.26 | solar | and http://www.electronics-lab.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/1199810948.jpg (yeah way out of most ppl leages) |
| 16:27.29 | prpplague | solar: ahh ok, yea i'll mention that to mr.herod |
| 16:28.33 | solar | but tbh.. CellPhone/PDA's ya got the right chips for it |
| 16:31.25 | prpplague | hmm, looks like the only issue with the hammer being run as an atmega48/168 is that the hammer has only 2 adc's |
| 16:32.07 | solar | being run as? |
| 16:32.22 | prpplague | s/atemga168/arduino |
| 16:33.15 | prpplague | solar: the arduino has available 6 or 8 adc's depending on the package |
| 16:34.33 | solar | oh. I've yet to successfully power the Nail via any external power source. |
| 16:35.08 | prpplague | solar: all you should need is a +5v regulated wall-wart |
| 16:35.11 | solar | got a few portable USB power packs. It powers up. But never seems to run my code. |
| 16:36.20 | prpplague | solar: hmm, i'll have to test, i wonder if the jtag is holding the unit in reset |
| 16:36.20 | prpplague | solar: i'll look at that this afternoon |
| 16:37.09 | solar | http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/233/p/1/pt/5/product.asp and http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4799 |
| 16:37.13 | solar | tested with ^ |
| 16:38.08 | solar | the unit gets power. Just never hear the PWM buzzer. Unless it's freaking out about getting power but no serial over the line. Can't see whats up. |
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| 16:39.48 | prpplague | looks at the schematic |
| 16:40.18 | prpplague | solar: did you try it with the jtag ribbon cable removed? |
| 16:40.34 | solar | nope. But I can. Sec. |
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| 16:43.56 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin / solar the hammer/arduino stuff wouldn't be 100% pin compatible, but it would be pretty close |
| 16:44.14 | CosmicPenguin | neat |
| 16:44.16 | solar | No change. The power led comes on. No startup blinking lights. |
| 16:44.22 | solar | or other. |
| 16:44.35 | prpplague | hmm |
| 16:44.45 | solar | really need to get the other serial connection going from the client port so I can see if anything is up |
| 16:44.46 | prpplague | solar: ok so its not the jtag control |
| 16:46.20 | prpplague | solar: ah yea found the issue, one sec let me see what can be done about it |
| 16:51.28 | prpplague | solar: ok there is a mod you can do |
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| 16:59.12 | sjhill | prpplague: ping |
| 16:59.20 | prpplague | sjhill: pong |
| 16:59.47 | sjhill | prpplague: http://www.realitydiluted.com/gallery2 |
| 16:59.54 | prpplague | looks |
| 17:01.57 | solar | prpplague: yeah? time to heat up the gun? Or do I need to buy parts. Did you just figure out change #1 for Rev.C ? |
| 17:03.55 | prpplague | solar: just need the soldering iron, and a short piece of wire, testing now |
| 17:04.30 | solar | cool. Make sure you take a pic plz so the change required is clear |
| 17:04.45 | prpplague | solar: will do, i'll do it at lunch |
| 17:05.16 | prpplague | solar: basically you just need to short pin 2 and pin 3 together on Q2 |
| 17:05.28 | prpplague | solar: yea just finished testing |
| 17:05.31 | prpplague | solar: that works |
| 17:05.45 | prpplague | sjhill: nice pics |
| 17:06.48 | prpplague | sjhill: probably can;t say, but is that a FLIR module on the front? |
| 17:07.26 | sjhill | yup |
| 17:08.47 | prpplague | sjhill: *cough* i don't recall seeing such a large boom on the front of chinooks i've been on |
| 17:09.29 | solar | ok found Q2. Looks like a 3. shorting the pins that are closest to Q3? jumering over it? |
| 17:11.00 | prpplague | solar: the pinout is like this : |
| 17:11.03 | prpplague | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:11.03 | prpplague | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:11.03 | prpplague | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:11.03 | prpplague | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:11.03 | prpplague | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:11.21 | prpplague | need to connect pins 2 and 3 with a short piece of wire |
| 17:12.55 | prpplague | solar: gonna be able to solder that? |
| 17:13.05 | solar | about to find out |
| 17:13.12 | prpplague | solar: actually, one sec |
| 17:13.28 | prpplague | solar: let me look and see if there is an easier connection spot |
| 17:15.43 | prpplague | solar: would it be easier to put a longer piece of wire and bigger soldering pads? |
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| 17:17.28 | solar | yes. The only fitting tool I might have to work with doing a direct jumper over/around the chip might be a 1.4mm screwdriver as my hands to hold the second solder joint down |
| 17:17.49 | prpplague | solar: ahh ok |
| 17:18.56 | prpplague | solar: yea, you see the usb slave connector on one end? on the back side of the pcb you should see a square pad underneath the usb slave connector |
| 17:19.50 | prpplague | solar: its the pad next to c28 and r21 |
| 17:23.05 | solar | sorry back. had to dig everything up. small apt here so not much lab space |
| 17:23.20 | prpplague | solar: np,if you connect the square pad with a piece of wire to pin 40 on the hammer |
| 17:23.53 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: just did a couple of tests, i'm able to compile some of the basic apps for arduino and run them on the hammer |
| 17:25.37 | MothaWork | is that Q2 a SOT-23 or smaller? Usually you can just solder bridge those |
| 17:26.08 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea its sot-23, but solar isn't experienced in doing small smd |
| 17:26.09 | MothaWork | 0603 packages also solder across the two leads nicely |
| 17:26.12 | MothaWork | ah |
| 17:26.29 | MothaWork | I need to practice my QFNs some time :) |
| 17:26.59 | MothaWork | QFNs are about the only thing (other than things like LGAs and BGAs, of course) that I can't solder |
| 17:27.14 | MothaWork | well, and the multi-pad 0603 and smaller stuff like some RF baluns and multi-resistor packages |
| 17:27.28 | MothaWork | I guess I just take minor stuff for granted |
| 17:31.22 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: What seems minor to you us major to some of us. :) |
| 17:33.28 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: I'm aware |
| 17:33.46 | MothaWork | In addition to being the hardware engineer here, I'm also the solder tech |
| 17:33.58 | MothaWork | we have other people who can solder, too, but I'm probably the best |
| 17:34.21 | MothaWork | though one of our guys is pretty good. He can desolder big stuff (like 100+ lead QFPs) better than I can |
| 17:35.41 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: I wish I had your knowledge and abilities. |
| 17:35.50 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: well, for soldering, it's mostly just practice |
| 17:36.11 | RobotGuy | And probably patience. |
| 17:37.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague, solar, g1powermac: G'Day |
| 17:37.43 | RobotGuy | sjhill: Greetings |
| 17:38.10 | MothaWork | yes, some patience, too |
| 17:38.18 | MothaWork | good eyesight and steady hands certainly doesn't hurt, either |
| 17:38.43 | RobotGuy | Definitely. I need to get new glasses. |
| 17:40.05 | kergoth`work | damnit |
| 17:40.13 | kergoth`work | someone really needs to do a better tool than git-submodule |
| 17:43.12 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea, i can;t do qfn's at all |
| 17:43.48 | MothaWork | prpplague: they're tough |
| 17:43.50 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: compiled three different arduino example programs so far, they run well |
| 17:44.02 | MothaWork | if you design the PCB with hand assembly in mind, they are doable, though the epad can be tough |
| 17:44.16 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i think the only real issue might be with some of the interrupt timming and such since we will be under an OS |
| 17:45.22 | prpplague | solar: you think having 2 ADC's on the hammer verses the 6 on the arduino would that big of deal to most people? |
| 17:46.21 | sjhill | hey RobotGuy |
| 17:46.30 | sjhill | so, question for anyone |
| 17:46.30 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It's a big deal for robotics folks. More ADC and Serial is always better. ;) |
| 17:46.34 | RobotGuy | sjhill: How goes? |
| 17:46.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea this something a little different |
| 17:46.57 | sjhill | does /dev/pts directory have to be created and exist before the kernel boots? |
| 17:47.03 | sjhill | RobotGuy: pretty good, staying busy i am |
| 17:47.11 | sjhill | RobotGuy: yourself? |
| 17:47.35 | RobotGuy | sjhill: I've been working with Arduino lately. Pretty cool little board! |
| 17:47.45 | prpplague | sjhill: if you are using a static /dev, then yea |
| 17:48.03 | RobotGuy | sjhill: I found some decent servo control code I have modified to be even better. |
| 17:48.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: how many adc's are you using? |
| 17:48.48 | RobotGuy | prpplague: None at present - just getting into that. Unfortunately, I lose two ADC in order to use I2C. :( |
| 17:49.21 | prpplague | which is kind of my point, does anyone actually use all 6 adc's on the adriuno at once? |
| 17:49.27 | RobotGuy | I need I2C to wire up Arduino to my Wiimote and other stuff. |
| 17:50.10 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I could easily use all 6 and wish for more. My 3-axis accelerometer requires 3 and each Sharp IR Ranger requires one. |
| 17:50.44 | solar | prpplague: that did the trick. |
| 17:50.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i understand you "could", but does anyone actually do it? since you need things like i2c and such which share the sample lines as the ADC's |
| 17:50.56 | RobotGuy | solar: What are you modding for? |
| 17:51.12 | sjhill | what is a adriuno |
| 17:51.26 | solar | new name for avr stuff more or less |
| 17:51.39 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I would use all 6 ADC if I could. Sanguino solves this issue because it uses the Atmega644P. |
| 17:51.50 | prpplague | sjhill: basically an avr with some bootloader code |
| 17:51.58 | RobotGuy | sjhill: http://www.arduino.cc |
| 17:52.11 | CosmicPenguin | and a cult following |
| 17:52.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: right i know you "want" to use all 6 , thats not what i'm saying |
| 17:52.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes, but there are other things nice about Arduino also. |
| 17:52.37 | prpplague | RobotGuy: that too is not what i'm saying |
| 17:53.26 | solar | prpplague: it has it's advantages. I'm using every analog pin but one right now. But be a big deal? Naa. Most ppl I see want to simply flip led states. and thats all the digital pins |
| 17:53.32 | sjhill | so they AVR must have a MMU |
| 17:53.43 | sjhill | is it a stack or register machine? |
| 17:54.05 | RobotGuy | solar: I am adding a MCP3208 to my Arduino (8x 12-bit ADC, SPI). |
| 17:54.08 | prpplague | sjhill: no mmu, basically think of it as a parallax stamp on steroids |
| 17:54.58 | prpplague | solar: what do you have your analog pins connected to? |
| 17:55.54 | solar | 3 x pots on a mini breadboard. 2 x photo resistors |
| 17:56.05 | sjhill | hmm |
| 17:56.11 | prpplague | solar: ahh |
| 17:56.57 | prpplague | sjhill: let me qualify that, i've always had to make the dir, but i've not used /dev/pts in about 2 years, so i don't know if that has changed |
| 17:57.12 | solar | I'd be fully out of digi pins as soon as I bring all 4 servos online. Then I still need motor control |
| 17:57.53 | prpplague | yea, thats kind of what i thought |
| 17:58.07 | solar | I can dump a bunch of the leds however. they are to simply show the actions of the intended motors mainly |
| 17:58.16 | prpplague | i suspect most people add external ADC, since those are much more available and easier to use that gpio expanders |
| 17:58.40 | prpplague | needs to run an errand, bbiab |
| 18:05.31 | RobotGuy | solar: You could use an MCP23017 I2C I/O expander, but you'd lose two ADCs. Add an MCP3208 (SPI) and you get 8X 12-Bit ADC. That is my next project. :) |
| 18:06.42 | RobotGuy | solar: You do lose some PWM pins in order to use SPI though. :( |
| 18:06.46 | solar | RobotGuy: well tbh I'd rather fork off the movement of servos vs being limited by single loop. |
| 18:06.53 | solar | so I'm all for prpplague's idea here |
| 18:07.38 | RobotGuy | solar: It's easy to add a servo controller like the SSC-32. |
| 18:07.51 | solar | right now. You move 1 then move the next and so on till you reached your 6th servo. I'd rather them all move at the same time |
| 18:08.30 | RobotGuy | solar: That gets you a total of 32 servos, but the pins can also be used for discrete digital I/O and there are 4x 8-bit analog inputs also. |
| 18:08.53 | solar | ok |
| 18:09.01 | RobotGuy | solar: You need an SSC-32 then. It has group and timed move features. |
| 18:09.49 | solar | I'm a little confused however. Are you trying to talk me out of taking advantage of the Nail/Hammer hardware? Or just passing on some tips |
| 18:10.16 | kergoth`work | cbrake: ping |
| 18:10.20 | RobotGuy | solar: I would never try talking you out of using Hammer/Nail. |
| 18:10.21 | kergoth`work | hmmmm |
| 18:11.01 | RobotGuy | solar: I am just trying to give you more options. :) |
| 18:13.12 | solar | RobotGuy: the mod was so the Nail board could be used with external power only via the USB plug only providing power. |
| 18:17.29 | RobotGuy | solar: So, power from external source rather than the USB connector? |
| 18:17.42 | RobotGuy | Like a battery. :) |
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| 18:18.12 | solar | yes and no. |
| 18:19.06 | ds2 | which looks worse - perf board or dead bug on a solid copper plane? |
| 18:19.06 | solar | battery powered yes. But over the USB cable. I'm using these. http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/233/p/1/pt/5/product.asp and http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4799 |
| 18:19.20 | solar | The dead bug is kinda cool actually. Add some parts an ebay it |
| 18:19.48 | ds2 | maybe I should ask differently... which one looks less professional |
| 18:20.53 | ds2 | solar: you actually get useable amounts of power out of the DX thing when it is solar charged? |
| 18:21.11 | solar | dead bug sounds like bad QA to me. But in about the same way as the US Mint doing a misprint. perf board looks hobby. |
| 18:21.52 | ds2 | okay, guess it time to find clever ways of hiding it |
| 18:21.54 | solar | ds2: it's limited but it can charge my cellphone partially up. |
| 18:22.29 | ds2 | solar: how long does it take for you to put in a full charge on the pack and do you do it outside? |
| 18:22.49 | ds2 | I have a similar one from geeks.com and it has been underwelming |
| 18:23.35 | solar | ds2: I've never accomplished a full charge. |
| 18:24.06 | ds2 | ah okay |
| 18:24.22 | ds2 | the thing works fine if charged from a wall outlet |
| 18:25.23 | solar | the onboard lion is rather small in this one. and think the panel is only doing 3mA |
| 18:25.50 | solar | oh the charger gets fully charged. Just not the cellphone in the hours of the strong light on my porch |
| 18:27.15 | ds2 | mA? that'd take a week or more to fully load the onboard LiIon |
| 18:27.53 | solar | erp I read that wrong :) |
| 18:28.32 | solar | Solar panel capacity: 3Wh/Built-in battery: 2000mAh/Output current: 1000mA max/ Output voltage: 4.5V~9V (selectable steps: 4.5V, 5V, 6.3V, 9V) |
| 18:32.59 | solar | ds2: Also just got the unit last week or so after you posted a link to the DX site. So really can't give a long term opinion. |
| 18:33.20 | solar | so far I like it |
| 18:33.32 | prpplague | returns |
| 18:33.45 | ds2 | solar:would like to hear how well it works in the long run; the unit I have is lacking |
| 18:33.55 | ds2 | but my unit is fixed at 5.5V out |
| 18:34.02 | ds2 | bunch bbl |
| 18:34.06 | ds2 | lunch |
| 18:35.03 | MothaWork | hum, now how the heck and something running remote on bare metal receive SIGTRAP? |
| 18:35.21 | prpplague | solar: hey, quick question, on your arduino setup using ADC's, you using +5v for vref? |
| 18:36.55 | solar | Not so quick I'm afraid. vref=? |
| 18:38.10 | prpplague | solar: on the adruino you should have a voltage reference line to determine min/max for the analog inputs |
| 18:38.30 | prpplague | solar: ahh i think they mark it as AREF on the atmel |
| 18:39.00 | prpplague | solar: which arduino board do you have? |
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| 18:39.54 | prpplague | solar: oh and did you get the mod to the nail board done? |
| 18:42.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you use the pdip atmega168 ? |
| 18:43.38 | solar | prpplague: yeah the mod to pin40 worked fine. |
| 18:46.05 | prpplague | solar: cool deal, already send a message to mr.herod about adding a jumper for that |
| 18:46.16 | solar | it's uses I think a 28 pin dip for the 168 |
| 18:46.40 | prpplague | thats what i figured |
| 18:46.46 | solar | but the 168 is going to become moot to many ppl working in that environment now that the 644 is ported |
| 18:47.11 | solar | if they need more than that. It's hammer time |
| 18:47.16 | solar | oh that was cheesy |
| 18:47.20 | prpplague | hehe |
| 18:47.26 | prpplague | yea, looking at some things now |
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| 18:49.14 | prpplague | solar: i could do a little carrier board for the hammer that would convert the pinout to match the pdip atmega168 package |
| 18:49.48 | prpplague | the only issue i see to this so far is that the hammer is 3.3v I/O and the arduino stuff is all 5v i/o |
| 18:49.51 | solar | that is quite funny |
| 18:49.54 | solar | I was typing |
| 18:49.56 | solar | being that it's a 40pin dip. Could it with an extra pcb layer be made to work with the Nail carrier? |
| 18:50.40 | prpplague | yea, most likely |
| 18:50.59 | solar | the arduino is 3.3v afaik |
| 18:51.17 | solar | but offers 5v on the digital ports with some boards |
| 18:51.30 | prpplague | hmm, i bet i looked at the wrong schematic |
| 18:51.30 | solar | the lillypad is all 3.3v afaik |
| 18:53.23 | prpplague | hmm, the ones i'm see are +5v based |
| 18:53.26 | prpplague | digs some more |
| 18:57.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy: whats the cost on the spi based adc ? |
| 18:57.43 | solar | Anyway. Yeah 5v is kinda vital. Most of the small sensors I've run across are all 5V |
| 18:58.39 | prpplague | solar: yea, looking at that now |
| 18:58.43 | solar | but for testing. I've got a few small perf boards here. So if you want to document the process. I'm happy to be your ginnie pig |
| 18:58.53 | prpplague | solar: to add level shifters would add some cost |
| 18:59.01 | prpplague | solar: will do |
| 18:59.26 | prpplague | solar: gonna compile some of the apps and do some testing, probably have something to play with in a few days |
| 18:59.52 | solar | very cool |
| 19:02.09 | prpplague | yea the sanguino is +5v based as well |
| 19:03.27 | prpplague | solar: the blink example works fine with no problems |
| 19:03.35 | prpplague | solar: as well as the push button |
| 19:03.48 | solar | the linux userland lib stuff? |
| 19:03.55 | prpplague | yea |
| 19:04.01 | prpplague | solar: very early stuff |
| 19:04.13 | solar | make it public and I can expand it on |
| 19:04.15 | prpplague | solar: i'm actually using my desktop to do the coding and testing |
| 19:04.38 | prpplague | solar: give a me a day or so to get it presentable |
| 19:04.47 | solar | avr-libs provides quite a few functions |
| 19:05.06 | prpplague | solar: yea, the arduino folks have listed most of them on their page |
| 19:05.30 | solar | ahh cool. Right away I'm using the following http://rafb.net/p/MOIESM10.html |
| 19:06.43 | prpplague | looks |
| 19:07.51 | prpplague | ahh good list |
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| 19:15.16 | prpplague | solar: basically you have a main.c that consists of nothing but the call to setup() and loop() |
| 19:15.51 | prpplague | solar: techincally you could multiple applications running, as long as they didn't access other pins |
| 19:17.19 | prpplague | solar: did you paste your adruino code? |
| 19:18.08 | solar | prpplague: yeah. http://dev.gentoo.org/~solar/embedded/main.pde |
| 19:18.24 | prpplague | grabs a copy to test |
| 19:20.35 | solar | remove the #undef int <-- temp hack to work around a bug in the 0011 release |
| 19:27.28 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes, Arduino uses the PDIP Atmega168. Don't know the cost of the MCP3208 - I get free samples. :) |
| 19:27.57 | prpplague | RobotGuy: atmega168 comes in 6 different packages, didn't know which one you used |
| 19:28.51 | prpplague | holy cow that mcp3208 is expensive |
| 19:29.26 | cbrake | kergoth`work: you ping'd ? |
| 19:29.32 | kergoth`work | cbrake: umm.. |
| 19:29.36 | kergoth`work | tries to remember what he wanted |
| 19:30.00 | kergoth`work | oh, i read your article on c# on arm, and was curious about the performance |
| 19:30.19 | cbrake | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:30.19 | purl | --purges ubuntu sound for being all messed up and not beeping when I get a irc message |
| 19:30.43 | kergoth`work | hehe |
| 19:30.53 | cbrake | kergoth`work: C# on arm seems to work pretty well so far. Startup time is pretty bad 7-10 seconds |
| 19:30.53 | kergoth`work | i'd be happy if i didnt have to kill all my other apps using sound to get sound in flash |
| 19:31.41 | kergoth`work | yikes, 7-10 is bad indeed |
| 19:31.42 | kergoth`work | hmm |
| 19:31.42 | cbrake | kergoth`work: I've done several small apps that seem to run well, and one larger app that does a lot of web services client stuff |
| 19:32.01 | kergoth`work | don't know it well yet, but i really like everything i've learned so far, so was curious about how useful itd be in that space |
| 19:32.05 | kergoth`work | ah, thats cool |
| 19:32.17 | cbrake | kergoth`work: so it works well for stuff like that where you can make use to the extensive .net libs, need decent threading support, etc. |
| 19:32.26 | cbrake | kergoth`work: I've not tried any GUI apps |
| 19:32.48 | cbrake | kergoth`work: startup time is killing me on one project that is a GUI terminal, so I'll probably re-write in Vala or C. |
| 19:33.04 | kergoth`work | ah |
| 19:33.51 | prpplague | solar: playtone? |
| 19:33.55 | kergoth`work | is debating rewriting bitbake and redoing the way it all works, and was thinking c# would be better than python, but faster to develop than c, and since some crazy people like native development... |
| 19:34.54 | prpplague | solar: mostly compiles |
| 19:35.01 | prpplague | solar: a few items i'm missing |
| 19:35.34 | solar | http://dev.gentoo.org/~solar/embedded/arduino/playtone.pde |
| 19:36.19 | kergoth`work | cbrake: depending on the nature of the userland setup, i guess you could fire off the long startup time app while the rest of the startup continues, to partially negate it |
| 19:36.54 | cbrake | kergoth`work: unfortuantely in this product it is the system monitor that watches everything and starts the main app |
| 19:37.01 | kergoth`work | ahh |
| 19:37.06 | cbrake | kergoth`work: its small so a re-write is not a big deal |
| 19:39.28 | kergoth`work | hmm... guess for a build type activity, could leave the heavy lifting in c# in a daemon and use a small c client app to control it |
| 19:40.26 | cbrake | kergoth`work: http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2007/Dec-07-2.html |
| 19:41.17 | kergoth`work | ah, cool. thanks for the info :) |
| 19:41.29 | prpplague | solar: looking really good |
| 19:45.41 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i don't have an arduino |
| 19:45.54 | RobotGuy | is confused then |
| 19:47.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: running adruino programs on the hammer |
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| 19:49.28 | RobotGuy | prpplague: How are you doing that? Did I miss something important? |
| 19:49.49 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i thought you were here for the whole conversation |
| 19:51.17 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I came in when you were talking about the mod solar could do to Nail. |
| 19:51.39 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ahh |
| 19:52.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i've generated a test library that you can compile arduino code against, inorder run under linux on the hammer |
| 19:52.39 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Wow, interesting. Cool too. |
| 19:52.45 | solar | in otherwords exactly what robotguy was saying about 4 days ago he wished existed |
| 19:53.13 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Why are you making that? I am really interested in what you are doing with that. An emulator? |
| 19:53.23 | solar | he has more ideas :) |
| 19:54.05 | RobotGuy | An Arduino killer? |
| 19:54.19 | prpplague | RobotGuy: not an emulator, this is simply a compile environment |
| 19:54.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: basically it allows you to use arduino code on any linux system |
| 19:55.02 | solar | linux-avr-libc |
| 19:55.04 | prpplague | solar: ugh, they've overloaded the serial.print function |
| 19:55.06 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Vewy interesting. |
| 19:55.17 | solar | prpplague: they or me? |
| 19:55.24 | prpplague | solar: they |
| 19:55.26 | RobotGuy | feels overloaded |
| 19:55.36 | prpplague | solar: i hate dealing with overloaded functions |
| 19:57.38 | prpplague | solar: looks like they are using a mix of c and c++ |
| 19:58.11 | solar | yeah |
| 19:58.21 | solar | let me find the quote |
| 19:58.28 | prpplague | solar: HA, their main is almost identical to mine, hehe |
| 19:58.40 | solar | <mumptai> well, arduino is avr-g++ with an precompiler, i would default most syntax to C(++) |
| 19:59.11 | MothaWork | really, I never understood the whole arduino "almost avr-libc but with some macro magic" thing |
| 19:59.28 | MothaWork | and C++ on small 8-bit? Gotta be REALLY careful... |
| 20:00.15 | solar | I don't quite understand where avr starts/ends and the arduino begins. At first I thought it was a board. Then a chip. |
| 20:00.46 | MothaWork | AVR is actually an architecture from Atmel |
| 20:01.17 | MothaWork | the AVR microprocessor core is available in several different devices with varying peripherals and packages |
| 20:01.19 | prpplague | solar: arduino is for lack of a better description, micro OS |
| 20:01.48 | MothaWork | the Arduino is a board consisting of a certain AVR hooked up in a certain way with a small amount of pre-written code already on it |
| 20:02.16 | solar | right so without the arduino so called dev env you can use c like syntax? |
| 20:02.23 | prpplague | solar: yep |
| 20:02.50 | solar | then I like arduino. coding for it came natural |
| 20:02.50 | prpplague | solar: the M5900 dev board you are getting has two atmel AVRs onboard |
| 20:03.00 | solar | whats the alternative that the avrfreaks are doing? |
| 20:03.13 | MothaWork | the arduino programming "language" is mostly avr-libc with a bunch of wrapper code |
| 20:03.16 | prpplague | solar: straight hardcode bare-metal c |
| 20:03.27 | solar | oh. thats all good then :) |
| 20:03.43 | MothaWork | prpplague: well, and assembly sometimes |
| 20:03.52 | prpplague | MothaWork: indeed |
| 20:03.57 | MothaWork | some of the really little AVRs are almost impossible to program effectively in C as they lack a useful stack |
| 20:04.15 | MothaWork | you can fudge it by taking advantage of the fact that registers are addressable as RAM, but that's very limiting |
| 20:04.18 | prpplague | solar: so basically we'll be using the same wrappers for arduino but with different underlining functions |
| 20:04.49 | prpplague | i really hate the idea of having to use c++ with this, but thats the way it has to be |
| 20:04.49 | MothaWork | I've been meaning to make a dev board with a ~32-64k AVR paired with a CPLD |
| 20:04.56 | solar | so pinMode() blah is just your calls to open(), ioctl() ? |
| 20:05.14 | MothaWork | prpplague: yeah, I gotta say that C++ sucks on tiny things like this. You can make it work, but you've gotta be REALLY careful |
| 20:05.25 | MothaWork | solar: I'm guessing pinMode just frobs the DDR registers directly |
| 20:05.57 | MothaWork | in avr-libc, all the on-chip registers are mapped into variables named the way the register is named in the datasheet |
| 20:06.30 | chouimat|work | scary |
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| 20:06.44 | RobotGuy | solar: I think "Arduino" is really mostly the libraries they add and the bootloader. |
| 20:06.50 | prpplague | http://www.pastebin.ca/1179983 |
| 20:07.02 | prpplague | solar: thats the pinMode for the atmega168 |
| 20:07.03 | CosmicPenguin | Isn't the general layout and formfactor standardized too? |
| 20:07.33 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: physical layout? or memory? |
| 20:07.39 | CosmicPenguin | memory for sure |
| 20:07.55 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea, its pretty standardized |
| 20:08.10 | solar | MothaWork: are the bootloaders pretty trivial to get on the chips? |
| 20:08.14 | CosmicPenguin | I've seen discussion here and there about getting certification |
| 20:08.30 | RobotGuy | CosmicPenguin: Yes, it is. There is a standard board layout to allow stacking 'shields' on Arduino. |
| 20:09.03 | CosmicPenguin | http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8465 |
| 20:09.09 | CosmicPenguin | That one I don't think is certified yet |
| 20:09.15 | prpplague | solar: you can program the bootloader via jtag or ISP |
| 20:09.15 | CosmicPenguin | but certainly, its not the same formfactor as the decimilla |
| 20:09.20 | RobotGuy | I'd like to see a Sanguino board the same size as Hammer-RDP with stacking for Hammer-RDP. :D:D |
| 20:10.22 | solar | RobotGuy: these boards really seem dirt simple. Don't see any reason why you cant order the chip directly and put your own on a PCB |
| 20:10.57 | solar | pref board.. |
| 20:11.03 | RobotGuy | solar: I could do that, but I don't yet have an schematic/pcb software I can deal with, and have not tried Eagle 5.x yet. |
| 20:11.07 | prpplague | hmm, do they have atmega128 based arduino? |
| 20:11.17 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Not yet |
| 20:11.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Unless you want to use the $80.00 Wiring board. |
| 20:12.00 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ?? |
| 20:12.30 | RobotGuy | prpplague: The Arduino environment is a subset of Wiring/Processing |
| 20:12.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy: url? |
| 20:13.46 | MothaWork | solar: AVRs are pretty easy to download code to, yes |
| 20:13.56 | MothaWork | you can use JTAG, SPI, or a parallel programmer |
| 20:14.06 | MothaWork | avrdude can bitbang the SPI ISP interface over your parallel port |
| 20:14.18 | MothaWork | seems pretty effective, but you have to keep cable length reasonable and be aware of voltage differences |
| 20:14.39 | MothaWork | there are several commercial tools that make it easier. Most are <$75 |
| 20:14.53 | MothaWork | if you want to be able to remotely debug, you'll want the Atmel JTAGICE mkII. It's about $350 |
| 20:15.09 | solar | prpplague: and you said the Nail carrier could probably be used for such things? |
| 20:15.11 | MothaWork | there are some knock-offs that clone the original JTAGICE. They are slow, though |
| 20:15.17 | RobotGuy | prpplague: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=744 |
| 20:15.20 | MothaWork | and they don't work with the newer devices |
| 20:15.56 | prpplague | solar: yea keeping in mind that it is 3.3v and not 5v |
| 20:15.57 | solar | MothaWork: don't want to spend that much.. But a few <$20 ideas have popped into my head recently where I don't need more more than a chip and some power |
| 20:16.17 | prpplague | solar: you have the flyswatter |
| 20:16.47 | solar | I thought the fly-swatter is the same as the nail carrier. Just it has an extra serial interface |
| 20:17.23 | prpplague | solar: it is, but the flyswatter is a standard jtag, can be used with anything that has jtag |
| 20:17.32 | prpplague | solar: it isn't limited to just arm devices |
| 20:18.49 | solar | so perfect. I don't need to spend money on anything |
| 20:19.05 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Even with AVR? |
| 20:19.17 | prpplague | jtag is jtag is jtag |
| 20:19.57 | RobotGuy | So there is no such thing as an AVR or ARM specific JTAG? |
| 20:20.25 | prpplague | avr has different functions as part of the jtag, just as arm, mips, and x86 have different functions |
| 20:20.45 | prpplague | RobotGuy: but just like SPI and I2C, the interface doesn't care what the data is |
| 20:21.04 | prpplague | RobotGuy: SPI on arm is the same as SPI avr, and is the same as SPI on mips |
| 20:21.12 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ah, so the hardware part is not processor specific. It's how the hardware is used.. |
| 20:21.27 | prpplague | yep |
| 20:21.41 | prpplague | RobotGuy: openocd is design to "talk" over jtag to arm processors |
| 20:22.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: avrdude is design to "talk" over jtag(or ISP) to avr's |
| 20:22.29 | RobotGuy | I wish I could fix my main PC. It has most of my dev stuff, except for Arduino, on it. |
| 20:22.46 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, got that now, thanks. :) |
| 20:23.03 | RobotGuy | I will try not to lose it now that I have it. :) |
| 20:24.16 | prpplague | solar: ok things are looking a lot clearer |
| 20:24.32 | prpplague | solar: might not have to do hardly anything other than provide a pin mapping |
| 20:24.56 | solar | prpplague: are you mostly able to compile the avr-libc for use as-is ? |
| 20:25.22 | solar | just not for avr-code |
| 20:25.41 | prpplague | solar: yea, but the thing is, wiring/processing appears to have designed from ground up to be ported to different boards |
| 20:26.06 | RobotGuy | Need a cross avr-gcc for Hammer. :) |
| 20:26.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy: nope, just need the standard cross compiler |
| 20:26.24 | solar | it's the same compiler I'm sure |
| 20:26.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I believe that is indeed the case. |
| 20:26.53 | RobotGuy | That Wiring/Processing is meant to be ported to other hardware. |
| 20:27.00 | MothaWork | solar: if you build it yourself, you can make a programming cable for AVR for about $5 |
| 20:27.02 | solar | you can do quite a few things with an extra pass with cpp |
| 20:27.06 | MothaWork | basically a DB-25 for your parallel port + some wires |
| 20:27.34 | RobotGuy | solar: I am still pretty new to embedded, so have lots more to learn for sure. |
| 20:27.39 | prpplague | hehe or just use the flyswatter, hehe |
| 20:27.45 | solar | MothaWork: would that be required in addition to the flyswatter-jtag board I alreayd have? |
| 20:27.50 | prpplague | solar: no |
| 20:27.57 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: about the only part of JTAG that is standard is identifying the device and EXTEST (i.e. pin frobbing) |
| 20:28.01 | prpplague | solar: you can use either one |
| 20:28.02 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: memory programming is usually part specific |
| 20:28.10 | MothaWork | solar: in terms of hardware, in theory nothing |
| 20:28.34 | prpplague | MothaWork: as far as the protocol |
| 20:28.37 | MothaWork | avrdude would just need to know how to talk with the flyswatter. The flyswatter can then talk JTAG to your AVR. Atmel documents the flash programming interface but not the debugging interfavce |
| 20:28.55 | solar | w/o getting into NDA's what are some of the uses you have for the chip in general? |
| 20:29.13 | prpplague | solar: for which chip? |
| 20:29.25 | RobotGuy | thinks the Atmega644p would be a perfect companion to Hammer. |
| 20:29.32 | solar | was asking MothaWork avr's in general vs a single one I guess |
| 20:30.19 | prpplague | solar: ahh, you didn't ask me, but we use them for keyboard matrix decoders, power management, barcode scan decoding, HID keyboard controllers |
| 20:30.29 | MothaWork | solar: basically, anything you'd use an 8-bit micro for |
| 20:30.59 | solar | I meant fun stuff. around the house. attached to your eye glasses etc :) |
| 20:31.01 | MothaWork | they're great for protocol translators, power management, "smart" I/O expanders, remote sensor interfaces w/ preprocessing, etc. |
| 20:31.18 | MothaWork | um, der blinkenlichten? |
| 20:31.40 | MothaWork | most AVRs have PWM (or you can do it in software), so you can "dim" LEDs |
| 20:31.43 | prpplague | solar: you should try searching on makezine or hackaday for avr |
| 20:31.50 | RobotGuy | I'm going back to work on my Arduino stuff before I get depressed. |
| 20:31.55 | prpplague | solar: you'll find all kinds of stuff |
| 20:31.57 | MothaWork | you could hook it up to a GPS and log where you spend the most time in your house |
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| 20:32.25 | ohsix | fragile chap |
| 20:32.50 | MothaWork | none of this is AVR specific; you could just as easily use HC08/HC12, 8051, MSP430, or even (blech) PIC |
| 20:33.01 | solar | prpplague: thats where most of the arduino hype comes from afaik. |
| 20:33.04 | MothaWork | code is not generally portable between those very easily, though |
| 20:33.17 | prpplague | solar: indeed |
| 20:33.38 | prpplague | solar: there is even code to bit-bang USB for avr |
| 20:35.07 | MothaWork | there are also AVRs with USB :) |
| 20:35.09 | solar | ds2: from then(today) till now.. It looks like the Nail died in the last 30 mins off the small solar power charger |
| 20:35.40 | prpplague | solar: didn't last very long? |
| 20:36.46 | solar | I have to go look at the timestamps for when we were talking |
| 20:36.46 | ohsix | are they stable without crystals/resonators for low speed usb? i've seen em used like that but i cant say the devices were great |
| 20:36.54 | MothaWork | I think that a crystal would be recommended for USB |
| 20:37.05 | solar | 1-2hrs tops at the 4-5/5v setting |
| 20:37.10 | MothaWork | I know the ones with dedicated USB transceivers (that support full speed) require one |
| 20:37.21 | MothaWork | there isn't even an option to clock the USB transceiver off the RC |
| 20:37.40 | MothaWork | so even though we're only talking low speed, given that it's bit-banged, I'm guessing a crystal is required |
| 20:37.48 | prpplague | solar: two things to note, with that configuration, you are still powering up the usb hub and the ftdi chipset |
| 20:37.49 | MothaWork | those RC oscs just aren't that accurate or stable |
| 20:38.48 | ohsix | thats what i thought, but they seem to do fine, the thing i'm thinking of occasionally has trouble with the handoff on high speed hubs |
| 20:39.36 | MothaWork | ohsix: tried taking a heat gun or ice cube to it? :) |
| 20:40.34 | prpplague | solar: definetly looks like we just need to add the hammer to the wire/process build |
| 20:41.24 | solar | neat |
| 20:41.25 | MothaWork | prpplague: have you ever successfully had more than just an ARM on a JTAG chain and still used it for ICE with OpenOCD? |
| 20:41.33 | MothaWork | like an ARM + CPLD |
| 20:41.51 | ohsix | i think its sufficiently fast to do the low speed mode without much regard to jitter |
| 20:42.24 | MothaWork | ohsix: I'm not thinking jitter so much as just what happens as the oscillator speed changes over temp |
| 20:42.28 | prpplague | MothaWork: i have had multiple devices on jtag, but i've always used that configuration strictly for flashing |
| 20:42.41 | MothaWork | the RC is a lot more temp sensitive than a crystal |
| 20:42.57 | MothaWork | prpplague: hum, ok |
| 20:43.17 | ohsix | yea but that manifests as jitter at those speeds |
| 20:43.33 | prpplague | MothaWork: sorry, i don't do a whole lot of debugging via jtag unless i'm doing bootloader work |
| 20:43.45 | MothaWork | prpplague: heh, this is a ARM7TDMI |
| 20:43.48 | MothaWork | no Linux |
| 20:44.00 | prpplague | MothaWork: ahh, fun fun |
| 20:44.04 | MothaWork | ohsix: I guess that is roughly what a constant sampling time error would look like |
| 20:44.22 | ohsix | i still dont see anyone saying its a good idea, or that it'll work |
| 20:44.33 | MothaWork | prpplague: though right now I've got a memory corruption issue I simply cannot debug |
| 20:44.38 | prpplague | solar: ok so the big question is, how far do we go to "pretend" we are an adruino ? |
| 20:44.51 | MothaWork | ohsix: I usually avoid the bit-banged USB anyway |
| 20:44.58 | MothaWork | Atmel has a selection of AVRs with dedicated USB hardware |
| 20:45.07 | MothaWork | some of which are rather cheap, though you're limited to QFP and QFN |
| 20:45.37 | ohsix | but will they work with the rc clock? |
| 20:47.16 | MothaWork | ohsix: no, it's not even an option |
| 20:47.25 | MothaWork | they are capable of full-speed, though |
| 20:47.49 | MothaWork | you could wire it up to try to use the RC clock. Feed the RC osc back to the XIN pin |
| 20:47.54 | MothaWork | I don't know how well the PLL would lock, though |
| 20:48.06 | MothaWork | I don't know how good their loop control is |
| 20:48.23 | MothaWork | IIRC, they recommend against a resonator |
| 20:48.25 | ohsix | i'd only be interested in the slowest of the slow, i wanna make some HID widgets |
| 20:48.39 | ohsix | yea i've read their guidelines |
| 20:48.57 | MothaWork | well, it does also support low speed, but I've never used it in that configuraiton |
| 20:49.00 | solar | prpplague: depends on how far you want to take it I guess. I can't really answer that for ya. I think the hardware parts would be far more interesting. Making hybrid Nail/atmel644 hybrid connectors |
| 20:49.30 | MothaWork | you could get a USBKey and wire it up to accept a clock on XIN from some RC derived source (e.g. a PWM output) and see what happens |
| 20:49.46 | MothaWork | the USBKey is only ~$25-35 usually |
| 20:50.10 | MothaWork | $31.92 in stock at digi-key |
| 20:51.25 | prpplague | solar: yea, the main difference between the hammer and the atmega644 is going to be the number of adc's, but we could offset that by adding one of those spi based adc's |
| 20:51.45 | prpplague | solar: so you could make a small module that would almost completely look like the sanguino |
| 20:52.39 | MothaWork | ohsix: I got to play around with the HID API in Windows. That was fun... |
| 20:53.10 | solar | sanguino already more or less looks like the Nail to me :) |
| 20:53.23 | prpplague | funny, i've been considering posting a bounty for a HID gadget driver |
| 20:54.08 | MothaWork | prpplague: well, my HID device was an AVR based device, not Linux |
| 20:54.30 | prpplague | MothaWork: just ment that people were talking about HID stuff |
| 20:54.30 | MothaWork | but DAMN is the API for communicating with HID devices from userspace in Windows UGLY |
| 20:54.36 | prpplague | solar: indeed |
| 20:54.56 | solar | it just needs a bit of polish |
| 20:55.20 | solar | feel free to buy them in bulk and pair them with nails and offer a super cheap item on the tct site |
| 20:55.29 | prpplague | solar: i think if i setup enough of the wiring/process language, most people who are familiar with arduino/sanguino programming will feel comfortable doing it on the nail |
| 20:55.50 | prpplague | solar: ?? |
| 20:56.04 | prpplague | solar: you mean arduino stuff? |
| 20:56.45 | prpplague | solar: or the adapters? |
| 20:56.48 | RobotGuy | prpplague: There will be an SPI ADC chip on Hammer-RDP. :) |
| 20:57.01 | prpplague | RobotGuy: oh yea? which one? |
| 20:57.41 | RobotGuy | RobotGuy: I don't have the info on that, but Rusty would know. |
| 20:57.52 | RobotGuy | Meant for prpplague |
| 20:57.53 | prpplague | checks inventory |
| 20:57.59 | RobotGuy | Dang, talking to myself. |
| 20:59.26 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It would be cool to be able to do that on Nail. :) |
| 20:59.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: this isn't specific to the nail |
| 21:00.12 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Well, on Hammer. :p |
| 21:00.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no reason you can't right now |
| 21:00.56 | RobotGuy | I have the Processing environment installed here now. |
| 21:01.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: There is - this PC I am on now is too slow to do much of any importance on. I can barely browse the web, have irc open, and my Arduino IDE at the same time. |
| 21:02.24 | prpplague | RobotGuy: sorry, i must have misunderstood what your were talking about |
| 21:03.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: its an ads7844 |
| 21:03.13 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I actually have a buildroot setup on this old PC, but it takes forever to compile anything. |
| 21:03.49 | RobotGuy | is on a 733 MHz Pentium 3 with 192 MB RAM now. |
| 21:04.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you have me beat |
| 21:04.31 | solar | really what other than a libc do you need on linux robotguy? |
| 21:04.53 | ohsix | i'm on a p200 with a bad lcd :] |
| 21:06.06 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i think that your compile times are due to the fact you recompile everything |
| 21:07.46 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I do not recompile everything. It's painful compiling just once on this P3. I can barely tolerate compiling Arduino stuff. |
| 21:11.32 | RobotGuy | I'm used to working on my other PC - Athlon XP 2600+ now with 2 GB DDR266 RAM. |
| 21:11.57 | prpplague | RobotGuy: why do you recompile everything? |
| 21:12.26 | chouimat|work | is on an 500MHz ARMv5 128MB RAM :) |
| 21:12.44 | prpplague | chouimat|work: yea yea |
| 21:12.46 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I don't recompile everything - the Arduino IDE does that itself. I don't have any control over that. |
| 21:12.59 | chouimat|work | prpplague: and I'm waiting after gcc |
| 21:13.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: again, talking apples and oranges, you and i have a heck of time communicating |
| 21:15.59 | RobotGuy | I don't understand |
| 21:16.07 | prpplague | me either, hehe |
| 21:16.32 | RobotGuy | It's not very funny to me. |
| 21:19.27 | prpplague | solar: you have your arduino build system installed? |
| 21:22.33 | solar | sorta. I don't have the java stuff. |
| 21:22.39 | solar | just the basic Makefiles |
| 21:23.04 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am using the complete Arduino IDE. |
| 21:23.58 | prpplague | solar: if you look under the hardware/core directory |
| 21:24.06 | prpplague | solar: you'll see several subdirectories |
| 21:24.26 | prpplague | solar: one for adruino, one for atmega8, one for wiring |
| 21:24.44 | prpplague | solar: each one of those i a different hardware platform with just definition files |
| 21:24.52 | solar | prpplague: few moments lunch. |
| 21:24.58 | prpplague | solar: np |
| 21:27.21 | RobotGuy | Does anyone know where I can get the mating connector for the Wiimote expansion port (other than canabalizing a second Nunchuk)? |
| 21:30.46 | prpplague | hehe wonder why no one has corrected me on my constant mispelling of arduino |
| 21:31.28 | RobotGuy | As long as the first and last letter are placed right, it won't usually matter where the other are. |
| 21:41.52 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Did you get a tracking number for my package? |
| 21:42.37 | prpplague | RobotGuy: it just went out at 3 |
| 21:42.44 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'll see if can get it today |
| 21:42.51 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK |
| 21:44.16 | RobotGuy | I hope shipping paid proper attention this time. |
| 21:45.40 | prpplague | solar: hmm, i must not be doing something right on configuring the arduino build system |
| 21:46.02 | prpplague | make: *** No rule to make target `blink.pde', needed by `applet_files'. Stop. |
| 21:46.39 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Each 'sketch' has to be in a separate dir |
| 21:46.50 | RobotGuy | With the same name as the sketch. |
| 21:47.11 | RobotGuy | (No extension of course) |
| 21:47.34 | prpplague | [dave@localhost Blink]$ pwd |
| 21:47.34 | prpplague | /home/dave/arduino-dev/arduino-0011/examples/Digital/Blink |
| 21:47.58 | prpplague | file name is blink.pde |
| 21:48.40 | RobotGuy | dir would be blink then with blink.pde in there. |
| 21:49.07 | prpplague | yep thats what i have |
| 21:49.11 | RobotGuy | Builds are done from the sketchbook dir |
| 21:49.27 | prpplague | so you have to copy the item of the sketchbook dir? |
| 21:49.48 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yes, I believe so. Copy the blink dir to your sketchbook dir |
| 21:51.01 | prpplague | RobotGuy: do you execute the make from the sketchbook dir? |
| 21:51.35 | prpplague | hmm, same thing |
| 21:51.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Well, I do everything from the Arduino IDE, but I am guessing you would have to be in the blink dir to build. I am not sure though. |
| 21:55.23 | prpplague | hmm, not building |
| 21:56.57 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ping |
| 22:03.09 | prpplague | man that ide is junk |
| 22:04.14 | CosmicPenguin | pong |
| 22:04.25 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you use the arduino ide? |
| 22:06.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague: The IDE needs some MAJOR work. |
| 22:07.53 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: I have never used the arduino |
| 22:08.15 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: oh silly me, i forgot you were using the parallax stamp |
| 22:08.21 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: nm, long day |
| 22:09.09 | CosmicPenguin | brb, vpn kick |
| 22:09.49 | *** join/#edev CosmicPe1guin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 22:10.17 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 22:12.22 | solar | prppp: I've never used the ide. It was over complex. How I managed to get things working. http://dev.gentoo.org/~solar/embedded/arduino/Makefile |
| 22:12.31 | solar | prpplague: ^ |
| 22:12.52 | prpplague | oh thanks that was the magic i was looking for |
| 22:14.42 | *** join/#edev Appleman1234 (n=Appleman@131.181.99.177) |
| 22:43.24 | *** join/#edev methril|laptop (n=methril@252.73.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 22:55.14 | RobotGuy | Are there any Bluetooth modules that handle the HID protocol - something made like the Sparkfun modules? |
| 22:56.43 | *** join/#edev adyer (n=adyer@adsl-69-223-13-78.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 23:10.01 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-245-131-116.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 23:10.06 | prpplague | ho ho ho |
| 23:10.10 | RobotGuy | prpplague: wb |
| 23:10.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Do you know of any Bluetooth modules (similar to what Sparkfun sells) that can do HID? |
| 23:11.25 | kergoth`work | hmmm |
| 23:11.58 | RobotGuy | I have a Wiimote and I want to be able to use it with 'various things' I have here. :) |
| 23:15.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy nope, they are all uarts |
| 23:15.39 | prpplague | kergoth`work you really need to work this build system over for the arduino |
| 23:15.51 | kergoth`work | heh. what's it using now? |
| 23:15.56 | RobotGuy | Durn. |
| 23:16.31 | RobotGuy | I just discovered that this Wiimote is put together with screws.. :) |
| 23:16.31 | prpplague | kergoth`work some sort of hodge-podge java stuff |
| 23:16.50 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yeah, the IDE is nearly unusable IMO. |
| 23:17.01 | prpplague | kergoth`work http://svn.berlios.de/viewcvs/arduino/trunk/ |
| 23:18.54 | RobotGuy | just thought of an interesting software project - a Python based IDE for Arduino. |
| 23:19.24 | CosmicPenguin | dude - seriously? |
| 23:19.40 | CosmicPenguin | two wrongs do not make a right |
| 23:19.44 | prpplague | which dude and which items? |
| 23:22.46 | RobotGuy | Some people can be very discouraging. |
| 23:23.21 | ohsix | take action young man |
| 23:24.29 | prpplague | "a man who carries a cat by it's tail, learn something in a way no man can teach him" |
| 23:28.57 | prpplague | kergoth`work that would be a great place for you test some of your new build system ideas |
| 23:32.01 | CosmicPenguin | of course, i'm building pycairo right now, so what does that say about me? |
| 23:32.20 | CosmicPenguin | It says I need to lay off on the sauce |
| 23:32.33 | prpplague | we'll leave that as a rhetorical question |
| 23:33.38 | prpplague | solar ok so if you take the hardware directory from the adruino wiring/progress build you can compile nicely for either avr or arm |
| 23:33.48 | prpplague | solar as long as you have an external compiler |
| 23:34.35 | prpplague | should have something to test in a couple of days |
| 23:34.41 | RobotGuy | Arduino/Wiring on ARM, as in native? |
| 23:35.15 | prpplague | wiring/progress on arm |
| 23:35.31 | prpplague | s/progress/process |
| 23:35.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ahhh, perhaps better! Wiring/Processing on ARM. :) |
| 23:36.14 | prpplague | i'm going use the arduino build as the base though, its much more robust |
| 23:36.18 | RobotGuy | I would love to see that since I have a nice LPC2148 Proto Board. |
| 23:36.47 | RobotGuy | Hee hee, an ARMduino.. |
| 23:37.00 | RobotGuy | Or an ARMaduino.. |
| 23:37.25 | prpplague | my main goal is the hammer, but there is no reason other board and archs wouldn't work |
| 23:37.44 | RobotGuy | ARM is ARM is kind of ARM, right? :) |
| 23:38.12 | prpplague | indeed, as long as you have a compiler, the build i'm doing should be supported, no matter what compiler it is |
| 23:38.22 | RobotGuy | Cool |
| 23:38.44 | RobotGuy | ARMaduino is being born! :D |
| 23:38.47 | prpplague | http://svn.berlios.de/viewcvs/arduino/trunk/hardware/ |
| 23:38.58 | prpplague | just that dir as part of the new system |
| 23:39.06 | prpplague | the rest is just that java crap |
| 23:39.52 | prpplague | pokes kergoth`work for a response |
| 23:40.20 | kergoth`work | heh, i need to design the new tool before i think about coding it, much less testing it :P |
| 23:40.53 | prpplague | hehe |
| 23:41.47 | prpplague | kergoth`work as the resident build expert, whatcha think? just take that core support and build a few makefiles to start off with? |
| 23:43.00 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin this would definetly work well with your coreboot stuff |
| 23:43.10 | prpplague | problem is the support of the c++ |
| 23:43.19 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It would not necessarily have to be Java though, although that would be easier since the current <cough> IDE is done in Java. |
| 23:44.26 | prpplague | RobotGuy i had -10% probability of doing any kind of ide support |
| 23:45.52 | prpplague | i can't image anyone using that java ide |
| 23:46.16 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am using it, but only because it's the easiest for me right now. |
| 23:47.00 | prpplague | easiest? |
| 23:47.07 | prpplague | you have got to be kidding |
| 23:47.22 | prpplague | i'd go nuts using that |
| 23:47.32 | prpplague | i/more |
| 23:47.46 | RobotGuy | I'm already nuts, so I guess I am right at home with it then. |
| 23:48.17 | RobotGuy | Some of my relatives are real squirrels. |
