| 00:00.08 | g1powermac | nah full electric with solar panels |
| 00:00.10 | RobotGuy | Corn and alchohol. Don't you Kentucky people have a lot of that? ;) |
| 00:00.37 | CosmicPenguin | GPS, in dash carputer, satellite radio, wimax |
| 00:00.40 | g1powermac | not so much the corn, alcohol and tobacco yes |
| 00:00.42 | RobotGuy | hides |
| 00:00.59 | CosmicPenguin | surface to surface RV missile |
| 00:01.13 | g1powermac | oh and firearms too, so we're the epitome of the ATF |
| 00:01.26 | RobotGuy | Nooooo, surface to air anti-uav missile. |
| 00:01.26 | g1powermac | CosmicPenguin, heck yea |
| 00:01.36 | *** part/#edev adyer (n=adyer@adsl-69-223-13-78.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 00:01.44 | g1powermac | surface to surface SUV missiles ;-) |
| 00:01.51 | RobotGuy | Uh oh |
| 00:02.08 | RobotGuy | You don't have an SUV though. |
| 00:02.24 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, SUV seeking missiles ;-) |
| 00:02.32 | RobotGuy | You must mean anti-SUV missiles |
| 00:02.32 | CosmicPenguin | thats a missile _for_ SUVs not attached to SUVs |
| 00:03.12 | CosmicPenguin | I never understood that terminology |
| 00:03.20 | CosmicPenguin | I want missiles that are pro-tank, not anti-tank |
| 00:03.22 | RobotGuy | Oh, and outline the front grill with LEDs to make it look like a mouth opening and closing, controlled by a microcontroller. |
| 00:03.58 | g1powermac | actually, I want to do a knight rider kinda thing with the front grill |
| 00:03.59 | RobotGuy | That front hood grill already looks like a mouth |
| 00:04.16 | RobotGuy | That goes below the mouth, silly. |
| 00:04.28 | g1powermac | I definitely want to do some neons on the bottom of the car |
| 00:04.42 | RobotGuy | Each side under. |
| 00:04.51 | g1powermac | yup |
| 00:04.52 | RobotGuy | Pulsating |
| 00:05.01 | g1powermac | oooo |
| 00:05.02 | RobotGuy | Changable colors |
| 00:05.11 | g1powermac | mmm, RGB leds |
| 00:05.21 | RobotGuy | Uh huh, really bright ones. |
| 00:05.27 | g1powermac | bwahahah |
| 00:06.00 | RobotGuy | One really bright LED could move from end to end as the color changes. |
| 00:06.24 | RobotGuy | Or a tight group of LEDs to serve as the moving one. |
| 00:06.28 | RobotGuy | White |
| 00:06.48 | CosmicPenguin | too battlestar galatica |
| 00:06.54 | RobotGuy | No way! |
| 00:06.56 | g1powermac | heh |
| 00:06.59 | RobotGuy | It's unique |
| 00:07.15 | RobotGuy | I just thought of it. |
| 00:07.28 | RobotGuy | (released under the GPL) |
| 00:07.29 | g1powermac | *sigh* this antibiotic is really messing with me I think |
| 00:08.42 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Looks like I am getting my chair replaced! Doctor already signed the prescription for it while I was there. |
| 00:08.47 | g1powermac | this antibiotic is so strong it causes neurological symptoms |
| 00:08.55 | g1powermac | nice |
| 00:09.30 | RobotGuy | Not the one I really want, but I think it will do fine, and definitely better than what I have. |
| 00:09.50 | RobotGuy | THEN, I can do whatever I want to do with this chair.. |
| 00:11.26 | g1powermac | nice |
| 00:11.55 | RobotGuy | I already know where I can get a motor controller board for the motors (about $60.00). |
| 00:13.05 | RobotGuy | Add microcontroller, sensors, remote control, new joystick.. |
| 00:13.33 | RobotGuy | Could be the first Hammer/Gentoo Linux controlled wheel chair! |
| 00:13.43 | g1powermac | hehe |
| 00:14.31 | RobotGuy | Onboard computer with camera I can position using a joystick (full zoom) to catch the license number of drivers who almost run over me. |
| 00:14.52 | RobotGuy | Like almost happened this evening. |
| 00:15.28 | RobotGuy | I could make this old chair follow me in the new one.. |
| 00:15.49 | RobotGuy | Got to have GPS of course. |
| 00:15.56 | RobotGuy | And WiFi |
| 00:16.26 | RobotGuy | Oh, and lots and lots of very bright blinking LEDs for night runs. |
| 00:17.11 | g1powermac | hehe, yea |
| 00:17.41 | RobotGuy | I like those three LED RGB light strips SFE has. |
| 00:17.51 | g1powermac | ahh, man, I think I need to rest a bit, these antibiotics are really messing with me, or it could be some leftover vicodin in my system |
| 00:17.55 | RobotGuy | Two on the outside of each arm rest |
| 00:18.08 | g1powermac | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levofloxacin |
| 00:18.16 | g1powermac | read those side effects on that stuff |
| 00:18.36 | RobotGuy | Well, get that nasty stuff out of your body so the good stuff can go to work. |
| 00:19.38 | g1powermac | well, unfortunately I kinda need it to kill off the infection in my gallbladder |
| 00:21.44 | RobotGuy | Just be sure to kill JUST the infection, OK? |
| 00:22.18 | g1powermac_PB | hehe |
| 00:25.43 | RobotGuy | Eeeck, that can cause some nasty side effects. |
| 00:26.17 | RobotGuy | You know about biology stuff and such.. What's a good source to learn about possible inner ear problems and complications? |
| 00:27.54 | g1powermac_PB | I usually go straight to google |
| 00:28.14 | g1powermac_PB | though webmd is pretty good |
| 00:28.34 | RobotGuy | Is there a better search I can do than just "inner ear problem" ? |
| 00:28.53 | g1powermac_PB | symptoms are great search terms |
| 00:29.11 | g1powermac_PB | like 'inner ear dizziness' or something |
| 00:29.27 | RobotGuy | OK, that might work, and I have that. |
| 00:30.40 | RobotGuy | I'm just not convinced these doctors are telling me everything and/or doing everything they can to find out what is wrong. |
| 00:30.56 | g1powermac_PB | yup, thats normal |
| 00:32.05 | RobotGuy | What would you call the feeling of the ground falling out from under you (I have this). |
| 00:32.21 | RobotGuy | It's a very uncomfortable feeling. |
| 00:32.32 | g1powermac_PB | sounds like a vertigo of sorts |
| 00:32.55 | RobotGuy | It's caused me to fall. Hmmmmmm.. |
| 00:33.00 | g1powermac_PB | kinda had that once |
| 00:33.11 | RobotGuy | I have it recurring though. |
| 00:33.16 | g1powermac_PB | I had a cold and blew my nose while standing |
| 00:33.23 | g1powermac_PB | I almost hit the ground |
| 00:33.29 | RobotGuy | Ouch |
| 00:33.47 | g1powermac_PB | as pressure built in one of my ears |
| 00:34.10 | g1powermac_PB | causing my whole equilibrium to go nuts |
| 00:34.24 | RobotGuy | I've been trying to get in to see an Etologist (2 years more of school than an ENT), but one has refused to see me because he's doing research and I don't fit the profile he's looking for. |
| 00:34.48 | RobotGuy | My left ear pops when there is no change in elevation. |
| 00:35.01 | g1powermac_PB | hmm |
| 00:35.16 | g1powermac_PB | any cracking sounds when chewing/swallowing? |
| 00:35.51 | RobotGuy | I don't know - haven't paid attention to stuff like that, but sometimes my ear pops when I am chewing or swallowing. |
| 00:36.06 | g1powermac_PB | hmm |
| 00:36.32 | g1powermac_PB | just try swallowing some water |
| 00:36.41 | g1powermac_PB | I curious |
| 00:36.44 | g1powermac_PB | *I'm |
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| 02:06.10 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-162-73.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 02:06.19 | prpplague | landley hey hey bud! |
| 02:06.33 | prpplague | landley how ya feeling with the never ending sinus infection? |
| 02:06.56 | prpplague | solar drink the whole bottle of pepto today? |
| 02:07.29 | landley | prpplague: kind of annoyed by it, really... |
| 02:07.46 | landley | Poking at uclibc-svn. Trying to get it to build in my build system. |
| 02:08.11 | landley | I reverted to binutils 2.17 because after bouncing off three different authorities it seems that binutils 2.18 is GPLv3 only. |
| 02:08.36 | landley | Still haven't sat down and plowed through redoing the powerpc target for the 2.6.26 kernel. |
| 02:08.44 | prpplague | and seems to have a ton of glitches imho |
| 02:08.48 | prpplague | 2.18 that is |
| 02:09.04 | prpplague | landley how is the business dev going? |
| 02:09.08 | landley | I need to build a power macintosh kernel and use miltonm's boot sector to feed in the power mac device tree, see if I can get that to boot under qemu so I don't have to patch the kernel. |
| 02:09.17 | landley | prpplague: it isn't. :( |
| 02:09.25 | landley | I still have no idea how to go shake people and say "give me money!" |
| 02:09.39 | landley | I've got more people using my stuff as open source, though. That's something. |
| 02:09.48 | landley | Poking at documentation. |
| 02:09.51 | prpplague | landley should see if you can get some pointers from andersee |
| 02:09.56 | landley | Thinking of breaking down and rehabilitating the uClibc project. |
| 02:10.03 | landley | Huge time sink that, but it needs to be done. |
| 02:10.03 | prpplague | oh yea? |
| 02:10.17 | landley | prpplague: yup. |
| 02:10.21 | prpplague | yea, kergoth has been talking of a re-work of OE |
| 02:10.30 | landley | 0.9.29 doesn't have TLS. You can't build a current glibc without TLS. |
| 02:10.32 | prpplague | seems like everyone has a 7 year itch |
| 02:10.33 | landley | It simply can't be done. |
| 02:10.42 | landley | Cross compiling glibc from Solaris and such? No longer supported. |
| 02:10.53 | landley | (Because they maintainers are very short sighted, as far as I can tell.) |
| 02:11.03 | landley | They also went to LGPLv3 only. |
| 02:11.05 | landley | But I repeat myself. |
| 02:11.09 | prpplague | yea, seems to be alot of that going on |
| 02:11.33 | prpplague | landley no online much during the day ? |
| 02:11.47 | prpplague | s/no/not |
| 02:11.52 | landley | I'm online when I'm near the net. Unfortunately, I've mostly been near net late at night. |
| 02:12.09 | landley | My favorite 24 hour coffee shop (Metro) closed. :( |
| 02:12.25 | prpplague | doh |
| 02:12.30 | landley | The only one I know that's still open 24 hours is a 15 minute bike ride away, a bit uncomfortable when it's 95 degrees out at 90% humidity. |
| 02:12.39 | prpplague | indeed |
| 02:12.46 | landley | (The humidity's been nuts in austin this year. It's like Houston or Pittsburgh. This is apparently what global warming's doing this far south.) |
| 02:12.54 | prpplague | hehe |
| 02:13.17 | landley | The media is of course certain killer mold will do us all in. *shrug8 |
| 02:13.24 | landley | Anyway, the point of FWL is to make cross compiling go away. |
| 02:13.29 | prpplague | landley ever hear from morton about the nail? |
| 02:13.41 | landley | If you can't build a glibc-based system under the result, it's not doing its job. |
| 02:13.51 | landley | That means I need a uClibc with TLS. (Don't need NPTL, just TLS.) |
| 02:14.00 | landley | prpplague: no, but I never got him his documentation either. |
| 02:14.05 | landley | It got shoved down to TODO item #35 or so. |
| 02:14.13 | prpplague | indeed, i figured as much |
| 02:14.15 | landley | I meant to sit down and bang it out to hand to him at OLS, but he wasn't at OLS. |
| 02:14.22 | landley | Nobody was really at OLS. |
| 02:14.23 | prpplague | same here, i've been burried in the m8050 dev |
| 02:14.29 | landley | I only went because it was the last OLS. Next year won't be in Ottawa. |
| 02:14.44 | landley | (Like Atlanta Linux Showcase moving out of atlanta, I'm not sure how long it'll survive being uprooted.) |
| 02:15.58 | landley | what is an m8050 anyway? |
| 02:16.12 | prpplague | http://www.elinux.org/M8050 |
| 02:16.16 | prpplague | industrial pda |
| 02:16.40 | landley | Ah, that thing. |
| 02:16.41 | prpplague | no it doesn't run windows ce, thats just screen shots the ME used |
| 02:16.47 | landley | Oh good. |
| 02:16.59 | landley | Every time I've seen that screen shot, I stopped paying attention... |
| 02:17.01 | prpplague | i'm about 80% done with it |
| 02:17.04 | prpplague | hehe |
| 02:17.29 | landley | I note that ALL that page has is a screen shot. No specs, no link to specs, no price. |
| 02:17.34 | landley | I vaguely recall the price was frightening. |
| 02:17.42 | prpplague | landley ran the unit with 802.11b/g today on backup battery for an entire 92 minutes |
| 02:17.50 | landley | needs to buy a couple of netflix arm set-top boxes. |
| 02:17.59 | landley | backup battery? |
| 02:18.17 | prpplague | landley yea, has two batteries, a primary and backup |
| 02:18.22 | landley | "Just the batteries, sir. I can have auxiliary power in a few minutes..." |
| 02:18.30 | landley | Size disparity? |
| 02:18.43 | prpplague | primary is removable, backup is just for time to shut down in a worst cause situation |
| 02:18.50 | landley | Ah. |
| 02:19.31 | prpplague | i'm pushing for a developer edition of the m8050 for linux folks |
| 02:19.37 | prpplague | not sure if it will fly though |
| 02:20.12 | landley | shrugs. |
| 02:20.18 | landley | i still haven't got a case for my nail board. :) |
| 02:20.24 | prpplague | oh? |
| 02:20.37 | prpplague | sends an email to self to check shipping |
| 02:20.50 | landley | The delivery people apparently spontaneously combust as they approach my condo, or some such... |
| 02:20.52 | prpplague | landley we've had a lot of problems at the shipping department at AML lately |
| 02:21.17 | landley | Eh, not like I haven't had 15 other todo items higher in the queue. |
| 02:21.18 | prpplague | landley they've been doing a WFR and have some non-english speaking folks doing alot of the work |
| 02:21.26 | landley | WFR? |
| 02:21.43 | prpplague | work force reduction, they fired about 10 people last thursday |
| 02:21.53 | prpplague | including 4 engineering staff |
| 02:22.06 | landley | AML, or your shipping company? |
| 02:22.10 | prpplague | aml |
| 02:22.15 | landley | Ah. |
| 02:22.31 | landley | I don't suppose the anti-engineer got fired? |
| 02:22.58 | prpplague | not yet but i have it on good authority he is on the list |
| 02:23.15 | landley | The question is how much of the engineering department will be left by then. |
| 02:23.22 | landley | The good ones seldom wait to be fired once layoffs start... |
| 02:23.22 | prpplague | landley indeed |
| 02:23.32 | prpplague | landley *cough* indeed |
| 02:24.25 | prpplague | landley solar and i have been working on some programming to make it easier for people to tinkering with the hammer hardware |
| 02:24.33 | landley | Cool. |
| 02:25.02 | prpplague | landley a group developed some education programming language based on c++, yea i know, called wiring/process |
| 02:25.09 | prpplague | landley which all the arduino devices uses |
| 02:25.18 | landley | ok |
| 02:25.30 | prpplague | landley slowly making it generic enough to run under linux |
| 02:25.51 | landley | Some HP laywer is pondering flying me up to NYC to talk on a panel about GPL enforcement, and if so I plan to delay my return flight for a couple weeks to go hang out with ESR. |
| 02:26.07 | prpplague | landley coool |
| 02:26.08 | landley | If so, we may finally get time to write the "Why C++ is not my favorite language" paper we've been pondering for half a year now... |
| 02:26.21 | prpplague | landley that gpl guide was almost as good as nothing |
| 02:26.55 | landley | Yeah, I noticed. |
| 02:27.08 | landley | "Get permission from your company's lawyers before shipping code under any license." |
| 02:27.08 | prpplague | landley yea, i'm not fond of c++ either |
| 02:27.15 | landley | Oh yeah, that'll spread open source. |
| 02:27.45 | landley | After all, it snuck into engineering departments around the world with the explicit knowledge and consent of the legal department. |
| 02:27.55 | landley | Right. |
| 02:28.25 | landley | I'm also supposed to write a "how to comply with GPLv2" entry for some online magazine thing. |
| 02:28.42 | landley | My advice these days is that the geeks want one thing and the letter of the law wants another, so do both. |
| 02:28.56 | landley | The letter of the law wants a written offer that if you send $100 to this address we'll mail you a CD. So provide that offer. |
| 02:29.42 | landley | And the geeks want explicit identification of what you used, with a URL where to download the vanilla source tarball at its upstream source plus whatever patches against the source you used (or an explicit statement of its vanillaness). |
| 02:30.20 | landley | And yes, release tarball plus patches is our preferred format. One big hairball is not. |
| 02:30.54 | landley | These are two different things, but to do it right you really need both. |
| 02:31.22 | landley | (Sadly, URL to kernel.org or busybox.net or uClibc.org plus a URL to your patch are _not_ legally sufficient if the FSF decides to make trouble.) |
| 02:32.17 | prpplague | landley indeed, i've tried to argue the same the issues with mattel with no success |
| 02:32.18 | landley | Clause 3c is only really for noncommercial distribution. For commercial you need to reply on 3b. But 3b is not being a good guy to the community, 3c is... |
| 02:32.41 | landley | All of this is gplv2, of course. My advice on GPLv3 is the same as for ravenous bugbladder beasts and vogon grandmothers: "In brief, avoid." |
| 02:32.47 | prpplague | landley not that you have a precident with verizon, someone can reassert the issue with mattel |
| 02:33.01 | landley | When I get mine published, feel free to point to it if you think it'd help... :) |
| 02:33.04 | landley | not that or now that? |
| 02:33.17 | prpplague | sorry typo |
| 02:33.20 | prpplague | s/not/now |
| 02:33.23 | landley | Feel free to poke the SFLC. gpl@busybox.net |
| 02:33.44 | prpplague | landley i didn't get a warm/fuzzy with SFLC |
| 02:33.48 | landley | The reason I need to get two netflix boxes is so I can reflash the second one, which means I want their source code so I can reproduce it. :) |
| 02:34.16 | landley | prpplague: I wouldn't exactly call 'em warm and fuzzy, but they get results and they're not the FSF (anymore). I'm pretty happy. |
| 02:34.24 | prpplague | landley i suspect they kind of thought i was a script kidda from the start |
| 02:34.30 | landley | They're lawyers. There are very few warm fuzzy lawyers. |
| 02:34.39 | landley | (Pretty much cathy raymond is the entire set of those I've encountered, really.) |
| 02:34.46 | landley | And it depends what she's wearing. |
| 02:34.48 | prpplague | landley when i have something a little more recent with mattel i had planned to go to them about it |
| 02:34.52 | landley | The fuzzy part, anyway. |
| 02:35.24 | landley | prpplague: write up your complaint, send it to me, and I'll forward it. |
| 02:35.33 | landley | There isn't quite a signed-off-by here, but... :) |
| 02:35.39 | landley | (Except it's "acked-by" now. Sigh.) |
| 02:35.55 | prpplague | landley indeed, i have three devices i need to check out from mattel, just haven't had time |
| 02:36.05 | landley | Speaking of which, I finally got http://kernel.org/doc/ols/2008 updated. With videos. :) |
| 02:36.45 | landley | One of my timesyncs has resurfaced, I'm poking at kernel.org/doc again. |
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| 02:38.16 | prpplague | landley neat |
| 02:39.38 | prpplague | landley i have some kernel drivers that i might run past you, i'd like some more feedback besides the mailing list nazis |
| 02:39.52 | landley | ok. |
| 02:40.00 | landley | I'm happy to look, dunno how useful I'll be. :) |
| 02:40.30 | landley | I don't poke at the kernel as much as I used to because knowing how it worked this time last year doesn't really tell you much anymore. |
| 02:42.54 | prpplague | landley i hate to bail, but kids started school yesterday, and i've got to get them all to bed and such |
| 02:43.09 | prpplague | landley glad to see you back online!! |
| 02:58.06 | RobotGuy | Wow, super moving target, that kernel.. |
| 02:59.10 | RobotGuy | wonders if it's really worth trying to learn how the kernel works. |
| 02:59.22 | RobotGuy | landley: -wave- |
| 02:59.42 | landley | waves at RobotGuy. |
| 02:59.52 | landley | Yeah, the 2.6 development cycle's made it go even faster. |
| 03:00.10 | landley | They do about as much work in a year as they used to in a whole development cycle. |
| 03:01.27 | RobotGuy | landley: How is one supposed to keep up with that unless they follow it constantly? |
| 03:01.54 | landley | Pretty much you do kernel development, or you do everything else. |
| 03:02.01 | landley | If you're a kernel developer, you're a full-time kernel developer. |
| 03:02.19 | landley | (Or you could pick a tiny niche within the kernel and focus on just that.) |
| 03:02.25 | RobotGuy | What if you might have to do some of the former to do the rest? |
| 03:17.32 | solar | evening * |
| 03:18.37 | RobotGuy | Good ev-en-ing (Alfred Hitchcock style). |
| 03:18.52 | RobotGuy | Actually, I think it was eee-ve-ning |
| 03:20.30 | RobotGuy | I was pricing power supplies on NewEgg. I can get something pretty decent for around $50.00 + S/H |
| 03:21.18 | RobotGuy | It seems like you practically have to know as much to buy a power supply as a new motherboard these days. |
| 03:22.44 | RobotGuy | I'm opting to get my server operational again first. |
| 03:24.59 | RobotGuy | landley: The very tiny niche I'd want to focus on would be LCD drivers. |
| 03:25.54 | landley | RobotGuy: you could probably happily focus on that niche. |
| 03:26.36 | landley | it's things like interacting with the VFS, IRQ and DMA resources, memory management and page tables and such... |
| 03:26.38 | landley | That changes. |
| 03:26.41 | RobotGuy | landley: I'm getting some QVGA displays from prpplague. One has a touch screen. |
| 03:26.49 | landley | Bit banging on a couple of I/O ports, less so. |
| 03:27.37 | RobotGuy | True |
| 03:28.40 | RobotGuy | The touch screen display has "Remote Robot Console" all over it if I can learn enough to make a working driver for it. |
| 03:29.17 | RobotGuy | Or even "Wheelchair Safety Controller" |
| 03:30.06 | RobotGuy | So help me, I am going to put a zoom color camera on a pole on my chair that I can control with a joystick and such. |
| 03:31.28 | RobotGuy | I'm sick and tired of nearly being crunched by stupid drivers turning right in front of me when I have the walk signal in my favor. |
| 03:31.54 | RobotGuy | Durn good thing I am in the habit of looking over my left shoulder. |
| 03:34.10 | solar | low budget ver might use mirror pan/tilt vs a display and might save that neck of yours a little |
| 03:34.11 | RobotGuy | Good News: My doctor is going to sign-off on getting me a replacement chair, which will leave me with this one to do with whatever I want. |
| 03:34.44 | solar | what wrong with it? Motors still functional? |
| 03:34.55 | RobotGuy | solar: I just want to be able to get the idiots' license numbers clearly so I can call them in. |
| 03:35.22 | RobotGuy | solar: I think the controller is the main problem. I think the motors are probably OK. |
| 03:36.15 | solar | do you know of some magic way to go from license to phone? Cuz I don't. Pretty sure the DMV/cops wont give it |
| 03:36.34 | RobotGuy | I can get a motor controller that will handle these motors for around $60.00 locally. |
| 03:37.16 | RobotGuy | solar: No, I just have to get the license number so I can call the Police and report them. They usually get out of range too quick for me to get that. |
| 03:37.36 | RobotGuy | I always have my cell with me. |
| 03:39.10 | RobotGuy | Police in Beaverton will contact the driver, if I can get the license number. |
| 03:39.44 | solar | well having a vid of the event sure helps |
| 03:39.59 | RobotGuy | solar: That's my thought. |
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| 03:40.52 | RobotGuy | A couple nice high resolution images should work just fine. |
| 03:41.42 | RobotGuy | Camera should sit just up above my head and a bit behind. |
| 03:43.01 | RobotGuy | Joystick control would be for fine tuning mostly, since the camera should point more at what's over my head and in front. |
| 03:43.34 | RobotGuy | It's just an idea. |
| 03:45.25 | RobotGuy | Actually, video would be better than just a couple pictures. Could miss something important otherwise. |
| 03:45.55 | RobotGuy | I think Hammer could be perfect for something like this. |
| 03:46.48 | RobotGuy | I'm not sure about the video part though. Different ways to go about that. |
| 03:50.22 | RobotGuy | Of course, I can tie lighting control into all of this too. |
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| 04:02.38 | RobotGuy | I'm exhausted, so heading to bed. G'Night. |
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| 07:15.29 | [AD]Turbo | hola |
| 07:16.59 | methril | hola |
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| 13:18.42 | g1powermac | morning prpplague and GPSFan |
| 13:19.51 | GPSFan | g1powermac: g'day.. |
| 13:19.54 | prpplague | greetings |
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| 14:36.30 | solar | morn * |
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| 16:41.10 | kergoth`work | hmmm |
| 16:50.07 | kergoth`work | 's torn |
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| 17:06.45 | MothaWork | hey, anybody know a good list summarizing the ARM cores in use today? I'm looking for a table comparing things like typical MIPS/MHz, typical (i.e. rough comparison) W/MHz or W/MIPS, etc. |
| 17:07.57 | roxfan | there's the table on wikipedia but it doesn't say anything on clock speeds |
| 17:10.00 | MothaWork | yeah, I'd like to know what "typical" implementations look like |
| 17:10.15 | MothaWork | they all tend to be about the same, differing mostly in power consumption departments rather than max clock speed it seems |
| 17:13.26 | roxfan | well, i haven't seen such tables myself |
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| 17:14.25 | prpplague | MothaWork: i have basic one on the linux wiki, but there is a more detailed one on wikipedia |
| 17:14.26 | roxfan | i know about some cores... like ARM7 tends to be below 100MHz, ARM9 is 200 to 400 afaik, arm11 is 400+ etc |
| 17:15.25 | prpplague | MothaWork: one sec and i'll get you the URL's |
| 17:15.46 | prpplague | http://www.elinux.org/ARM_Processor |
| 17:16.52 | prpplague | MothaWork: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#ARM_cores |
| 17:17.06 | chouimat|work | knows that Marvell kirkwood (ARMv5tej) is 1.2GHz ;) |
| 17:18.44 | prpplague | MothaWork: generally the size of the processing pipe determines the max clock rate, but having larger stage pipes also can create some problems with properly setting up a clock cycle |
| 17:19.06 | roxfan | prpplague: you can add cortex m-3... i think those are usually around 50MHz |
| 17:19.36 | prpplague | roxfan: yea, just haven't had time to update it |
| 17:26.40 | MothaWork | prpplague: yeah, I'm familiar with the concept of pipelineing |
| 17:26.48 | MothaWork | I just don't know all the various ARM implementations as there are now so many |
| 17:27.07 | prpplague | MothaWork: indeed |
| 17:27.13 | MothaWork | there's also the issue of what's the difference between a ARM960 and a ARM926, what all the extra letters mean, etc. |
| 17:27.49 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea, the arm system developers guide is a great book, it has lovely references for explaining all of that |
| 17:28.40 | MothaWork | I see |
| 17:29.18 | roxfan | http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.arm/msg/2aecdce95025c82a <- on letters |
| 17:30.55 | MothaWork | too darned many ARM cores :) |
| 17:31.05 | chouimat|work | MothaWork: hehe |
| 17:31.35 | MothaWork | I misread "ARM11" on some small print that I was far away from a while back as ARM13 |
| 17:31.46 | MothaWork | didn't think anything of it. I just assumed they had made an ARM13 by now :) |
| 17:32.33 | roxfan | nah, they made it even more confusing now with cortex |
| 17:35.10 | MothaWork | I've noticed |
| 17:42.44 | kergoth`work | mulls over the overlap between tools like openembedded, tools like a-a-p, and enterprise level build & release tools like cruise control |
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| 18:01.55 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: greetings |
| 18:02.19 | kergoth`work | gets confused |
| 18:02.28 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: hey |
| 18:02.39 | Ian_Daniher | yesterday I added external-lib support to my makefile |
| 18:03.30 | Ian_Daniher | so I can use the Servo and Wire libs without much problems |
| 18:05.30 | prpplague | nice |
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| 18:14.25 | sjhill | greetings bit slingers |
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| 18:27.55 | prpplague | solar: ping |
| 18:37.40 | kergoth`work | researches configuration management |
| 18:38.10 | MothaWork | kergoth`work: there seem to be a lot of embedded build systems out there, but none of them seem to fully address their target market, and certainly none of them have the "ease of use" that would be nice |
| 18:38.20 | MothaWork | biggest issue seems to be bitrot |
| 18:39.17 | MothaWork | try to do a buildroot build with X some time :) |
| 18:39.20 | kergoth`work | yea.. the issues seem to vary. if you look at openembedded, it neither scales down to the application developer (working in the source tree), or up to the higher level aspects like scheduled or continuous builds, good notifications, distributed builds, etc. as a result, people have to wedge it into their environments, it only directly fits a narrow scope |
| 18:41.02 | solar | prpplague: pong. |
| 18:41.29 | MothaWork | kergoth`work: I've seen those issues as well |
| 18:41.49 | MothaWork | it seems difficult to integrate local apps in and also seems difficult to integrate with release management type scenarios |
| 18:42.04 | MothaWork | it's fine for making a one-time basic environment, but it doesn't seem to do well outside that |
| 18:46.32 | MothaWork | sparkfun has a 2.3" QVGA TFT for $1, btw |
| 18:46.40 | MothaWork | another $1 buys you a frame and LED backlight |
| 18:47.08 | kergoth`work | nice |
| 18:47.52 | MothaWork | strange connector (nobody can seem to find a mate), but at the edge of being able to just solder wires onto it |
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| 18:57.51 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Package just arrived. :) Those displays are nice. |
| 18:58.14 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yep |
| 19:00.09 | RobotGuy | Why is it so difficult to create a decent build system that takes care of the hobbiest and scales up if/when needed? |
| 19:04.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: because everyone has different needs |
| 19:04.52 | RobotGuy | Or maybe people at least think their needs are different. |
| 19:05.47 | RobotGuy | I just wrapped some bash scripts around buildroot. That worked well for me. |
| 19:07.23 | RobotGuy | I just need a larger selection of software. |
| 19:21.13 | CosmicPenguin | Remember that every build system started out scratching an itch for somebody |
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| 19:25.07 | RobotGuy | CosmicPenguin: Maybe that's the real problem then. Nobody really set out to create a build system. |
| 19:25.35 | CosmicPenguin | Nobody set out to create a build system for you |
| 19:26.15 | RobotGuy | I wasn't talking relative to my own needs or what I want. |
| 19:26.36 | sunrunner20|prom | lol |
| 19:26.40 | RobotGuy | (in a build system) |
| 19:26.45 | sunrunner20 | i accidently cut a peice of insulation off |
| 19:26.52 | sunrunner20 | I just welded it back on w/ a soldering iron |
| 19:26.54 | sunrunner20 | ^_^ |
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| 19:28.22 | adyer | I don't expect the build systems to be perfect, any sufficiently generic system is going to have corner cases- my problem is debugging them when they go awry - autotools/configure, xmkmf, big project makefiles, they all are annoying to debug. |
| 19:29.29 | RobotGuy | I think setting out to accomplish a task (such as creating a build system, for instance) is very different than just doing what needs to be done to accomplish a task because it happens to be needed. |
| 19:39.21 | kergoth`work | adyer: http://www.cmcrossroads.com/content/view/6479/202/ is funny as hell, but could be useful in debugging makefile issues :) |
| 19:39.35 | kergoth`work | adyer: and you should definately look at the other ask mr make articles |
| 19:39.38 | kergoth`work | good site |
| 19:42.57 | RobotGuy | goes back to reading "Learning Python" and datasheets for various things. |
| 19:43.59 | sunrunner20 | lol |
| 19:44.15 | sunrunner20 | this is what i've been learning lol |
| 19:44.18 | sunrunner20 | http://www.fungifun.org/English/Pftek |
| 19:44.43 | sunrunner20 | growing your own mushrooms |
| 19:45.44 | sunrunner20 | ANY mushrooms really |
| 19:46.25 | sunrunner20 | whether they be the illegal kind (NOT what i'm growing :) ) or just whats out in your yard (what i am growing) |
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| 20:07.36 | chouimat|work | wants to hook up the fire alarm bell to vi .... PING! |
| 20:17.38 | MothaWork | no, you're already IN command mode! |
| 20:21.15 | sunrunner20 | lol |
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| 20:44.35 | MothaWork | I love it when it's possible to write software that confuses the JTAG debugger |
| 20:49.29 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:50.06 | MothaWork | prpplague: yeah, I have to do the hardware erase function to even re-program the chip |
| 20:50.12 | MothaWork | can't put a debugger on it or anything |
| 20:59.22 | MothaWork | apparently our chip doesn't like strange boot code or infinitely recursive functions |
| 21:00.48 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea, that is pretty standard with arm, since 0xffffffff is undefined , so if you try to start with erased flash, you can get into an interrupt loop |
| 21:01.35 | MothaWork | would still be nice if the JTAG could break in at that point |
| 21:01.43 | MothaWork | at least let me halt the thing and reprogram the chip |
| 21:02.16 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea we had a similiar problem with the sharp/nxp lh7952x series |
| 21:02.38 | MothaWork | there is at least a hardware erase option on this chip |
| 21:06.58 | MothaWork | prpplague: you know much about the backlight control API? |
| 21:07.52 | prpplague | MothaWork: hehe, not at the momment, i've always done my own in the past, which i have done for the 8050, but i need to migrate it over to the BAPI |
| 21:08.55 | MothaWork | I see |
| 21:09.10 | MothaWork | looks like it's fairly tied in with the framebuffer driver |
| 21:09.18 | MothaWork | which may or may not be a good thing (what about character LCDs?) |
| 21:09.27 | prpplague | MothaWork: in the past i've always use a /proc entry to make it easier for customers to interface with |
| 21:09.51 | MothaWork | yeah, simple and effective |
| 21:09.55 | MothaWork | though I'm partial to miscdev |
| 21:10.15 | MothaWork | but I like to use the "proper" API when one is available |
| 21:10.22 | prpplague | indeed as do i |
| 21:11.52 | MothaWork | we're back on 2.6.22 on our device right now. Need to find a way to upgrade it |
| 21:12.07 | MothaWork | unfortunately, they seem to have broken AT91SAM9 support in 2.6.26 |
| 21:12.19 | MothaWork | there are some RM9200 assumptions, and I'm not using a RM9200 |
| 21:12.42 | MothaWork | ("they" being upstream) |
| 21:18.36 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea alot of stuff in the arm section of 2.6.26 got broken |
| 21:20.24 | prpplague | MothaWork: we have a weird market (which CosmicPenguin and i have discussed before) 99% don't care if we are using linux, they just want their custom app to work with the device |
| 21:20.43 | prpplague | MothaWork: so proc is perfect for us, we add all kinds of proc entries for them to easy access |
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| 22:13.06 | prpplague | MothaWork: this is the weirds battery charge status singal i've ever seen |
| 22:14.02 | prpplague | MothaWork: check out the datasheet - http://www.linear.com/pc/productDetail.jsp?navId=H0,C1,C1003,C1037,C1078,C1089,P2493 |
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| 23:27.28 | joe_bleau | prpplague: Saw your space computer idea on /. today. |
| 23:30.53 | prpplague | joe_bleau yea similar idea |
| 23:34.44 | prpplague | 1500 quid is pretty steap cost |
| 23:34.50 | joe_bleau | Hey, I forgot to ask...are you going to do a ticker on the baremetal (ball peen?) hammer? |
| 23:34.50 | joe_bleau | Went through the building looking at all the 'baremetal' microcontroller projects I've worked on. |
| 23:34.51 | joe_bleau | And that's one thing I didn't think to ask about. Not a full on pre-emptive tasker, |
| 23:34.51 | joe_bleau | but enough of a tick to work timers. Useful with the superloop+ISR apps. |
| 23:37.17 | prpplague | joe_bleau as far as i know we aren't doing a baremetal device, all of them will be intended to run linux |
| 23:37.53 | prpplague | nothing from stopping you from running it as baremetal |
| 23:38.56 | joe_bleau | Wait, what was all that stuff the other night about porting audrino to the hammer, then? |
| 23:39.28 | CosmicPenguin | waits for his apology |
| 23:39.42 | prpplague | joe_bleau wasn't directly about arduino, it was about porting a programming language |
| 23:39.45 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin ?? |
| 23:39.52 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin what did i do now? |
| 23:40.18 | CosmicPenguin | I told you that baremetal was interesting.. :) |
| 23:40.18 | prpplague | joe_bleau the arduino uses a language based on c/c++ called wiring/process |
| 23:40.39 | joe_bleau | Sorry, I was confused. Scratch previous comments. |
| 23:40.42 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin and i still have the bootloader configured for such |
| 23:40.54 | CosmicPenguin | Its just that you didn't think it was useful |
| 23:41.02 | prpplague | joe_bleau you can still run the hammer and future stuff as baremetal if you wanted to |
| 23:41.31 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin i still don't think it is usefull on a arm920 device |
| 23:41.58 | joe_bleau | Indeed. Be nice if you had an eCos or RTEMS port, but I'm sure the market would be tiny (and the support a hassle). |
| 23:42.09 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin doesn't make any sense to me, but like i said, so far it is fully supported |
| 23:42.37 | prpplague | joe_bleau why run ecos or rtems ? when you can run linux? |
| 23:43.40 | joe_bleau | Because it's hard real time and comfortable. |
| 23:44.17 | prpplague | hmm |
| 23:44.39 | prpplague | joe_bleau none of the linux real time patches work for you? |
| 23:45.12 | joe_bleau | Never tried. Do they work? |
| 23:46.42 | prpplague | i've done a few items with them, they seem really good, but i have nothing to compare them to |
| 23:46.56 | prpplague | brb |