| 00:04.11 | prpplague | back |
| 00:15.18 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_PB (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 00:19.17 | *** join/#edev pea (n=pea@adsl-68-23-85-172.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net) |
| 00:22.49 | prpplague | CP|home you around this evening? |
| 00:26.11 | ds2 | 99F and 17% RH... and this is not AZ :( |
| 00:27.26 | *** join/#edev kergoth`work (n=clarson@65.200.49.156) |
| 00:27.27 | solar | bay area right? The global warming is kicking in around here rather strongly today |
| 00:31.25 | ds2 | yep |
| 00:51.05 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 01:00.26 | RobotGuy | prpplague: ping |
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| 01:01.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy pong |
| 01:01.34 | RobotGuy | Ahh, there ya are. :) |
| 01:01.51 | RobotGuy | Does the BT HID firmware have to be customized for each application? |
| 01:02.40 | RobotGuy | (like for connecting to a Wiimote) |
| 01:03.00 | prpplague | no |
| 01:03.16 | RobotGuy | Ah, so it can be generic and usable with different devices then?? |
| 01:03.44 | prpplague | anything you that supports being used as a usb HID device can be used as a BT HID device |
| 01:03.55 | ds2 | HID is HID |
| 01:03.58 | RobotGuy | OK. That's what I wanted to know. |
| 01:04.02 | prpplague | remembering the BT HID is nothing more than a wrapper for usb HID |
| 01:04.27 | ds2 | except a lot of things that are USB HID don't really need to be BT HID :/ |
| 01:04.40 | RobotGuy | The real problem is finding a device that is available with the right firmware. |
| 01:04.56 | ds2 | just use a real board with a real OS ;) |
| 01:05.15 | prpplague | ds2 which is what i said |
| 01:05.29 | ds2 | prpplague: just helping to reinforce concepts ;) |
| 01:05.52 | prpplague | RobotGuy you can almost think of BT HID as wireless USB |
| 01:05.59 | prpplague | but only for HID devices |
| 01:06.13 | RobotGuy | So using Hammer, which would be way overkill, is really the only way (or anything with USB Host)? |
| 01:06.20 | prpplague | yep |
| 01:06.39 | prpplague | goes back to job hunting |
| 01:06.45 | RobotGuy | OK, well, I already have Hammers. :) |
| 01:06.56 | ds2 | prpplague: so it has come down this? or did something else happen that got buried in the backlog? |
| 01:07.12 | RobotGuy | prpplague: You are really going for a new job then? |
| 01:07.21 | ds2 | RobotGuy: A tiny ARMv4 device like the hammer is great |
| 01:07.33 | RobotGuy | I like Hammer. Always have liked it. |
| 01:07.44 | ds2 | I wonder if uCLinux supports bluez |
| 01:07.48 | RobotGuy | I just don't know how to use all its stuff yet. |
| 01:08.12 | RobotGuy | I guess I am not done with my screwing everything up phase. |
| 01:08.32 | ds2 | screwing up is good as long as you remember it |
| 01:08.41 | prpplague | ds2 just trying to keep up with things, i don't want to get a pink slip and not have some things lined up |
| 01:09.03 | ds2 | prpplague: thought I missed an episode ;) |
| 01:09.08 | RobotGuy | ds2: I usually do. For instance, do NOT do "emerge -C world" for Gentoo Embedded. VERY bad thing to do. |
| 01:09.16 | prpplague | ds2 i'm convinced that management is going to completely axe the engineering department |
| 01:09.43 | RobotGuy | Why can't they just completely axe a single EE instead? Too easy? Politics? |
| 01:10.04 | ds2 | RobotGuy: heh... not a fan of any of these attempted automation systems |
| 01:10.09 | prpplague | ds2 actually i think they are going to axe production, qa, and inventory as well |
| 01:10.33 | RobotGuy | They might as well axe the whole company then. |
| 01:10.37 | ds2 | prpplague: and turn themselves into an IP company and start doing patent trolling? |
| 01:10.38 | prpplague | ds2 they've been talking to a bunch of outsource firms |
| 01:10.40 | joe_bleau | Should do wonders for the quarterly P&L statement, huh? |
| 01:10.50 | ds2 | ah |
| 01:11.38 | prpplague | ds2: yea, outsource the engineering to one company, and then another for turnkey assembly, and since thats all done outside of the company, no QA is needed or inventory |
| 01:11.40 | RobotGuy | Automation is fine as long as it doesn't go overboard and completely displace people. |
| 01:11.57 | ds2 | prpplague: for a company and have them outsource it to you ;) |
| 01:12.22 | prpplague | ds2 hehe |
| 01:12.46 | RobotGuy | ds2: They could outsource engineering to him. :) |
| 01:13.02 | ds2 | RobotGuy: it has happened |
| 01:13.08 | RobotGuy | ds2: I know. |
| 01:13.44 | RobotGuy | He could take the best people with him. :) |
| 01:14.39 | ds2 | offer to buy out the entire dept along with the test equipment, etc |
| 01:15.10 | RobotGuy | ds2: He wouldn't want to be stuck with that EE though. Got to have a new one. |
| 01:15.25 | ds2 | RobotGuy: that won't be a problem if he's the owner ;) |
| 01:15.35 | RobotGuy | ds2: Very true! :) |
| 01:16.30 | prpplague | the current m8050 project won;t finish until around feb or mar, or so i don't expect to get cut until then |
| 01:16.44 | prpplague | it really boils down to the EE's fault |
| 01:17.20 | prpplague | mangement doesn't understand that the other people have been waiting on him, which has made the entire department look incapable of doing a product |
| 01:17.21 | RobotGuy | prpplague is majorly talented, cares about supporting products, and cares about people, but he would likely want to stay completely hands on with engineering. |
| 01:17.39 | RobotGuy | Axe management. :D |
| 01:17.45 | ds2 | anyone doing those project diagrams for mgmt? Pell charts I think? |
| 01:18.35 | prpplague | yea, i do them, but they generally go right in the trash |
| 01:18.44 | joe_bleau | Why not go over his head and throw down? Spell it out, in person and in great detail, how bad this guy is making you look. |
| 01:18.52 | ds2 | oh my |
| 01:18.57 | joe_bleau | Whaddya got to lose, if the axe is primed anyway? |
| 01:19.09 | joe_bleau | Hell, do it with him in the room. |
| 01:19.19 | RobotGuy | joe_bleau: It could fall before he's ready. |
| 01:19.35 | RobotGuy | That happened to me once. |
| 01:19.58 | prpplague | joe_bleau actually already done that |
| 01:20.02 | prpplague | joe_bleau more than once |
| 01:20.14 | joe_bleau | Whew. I feel better now. |
| 01:53.26 | joe_bleau | My PCEngine ALIX is supposed to be in Friday. Should be interesting. |
| 01:53.49 | joe_bleau | I'm spoiled to netbooting sparcs. Wonder if the BIOS in the ALIX can do anything like that. |
| 01:54.07 | joe_bleau | It was always a really quick-n-easy way to install BSD. |
| 01:54.50 | ds2 | another admirer of OpenPROM? |
| 01:55.20 | joe_bleau | Absolutely. |
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| 02:27.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy / solar rusty's first handheld design - http://cgi.ebay.com/American-Microsystems-Model-3000-Portable-Code-Reader_W0QQitemZ380057427184QQihZ025QQcategoryZ46706QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247 |
| 02:28.44 | prpplague | oh better pic - http://i1.ebayimg.com/07/i/001/08/34/213b_12.JPG |
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| 02:34.52 | ds2 | wonder if symbol is hiring ;) |
| 02:35.15 | prpplague | symbol was recently purchased by motorola and they laid off thousands |
| 02:35.33 | prpplague | solar http://www.arm.com/markets/home_solutions/armpp/20178.html |
| 02:36.03 | prpplague | solar notice the 393mhz speed, thats the speed of the s3c2440 using a 16mhz xtal |
| 02:40.51 | ds2 | yikes |
| 02:42.11 | prpplague | ?? |
| 02:42.39 | ds2 | regarding the motorola layoffs |
| 02:43.19 | ds2 | ARM9 @393MHz? isn't that an ARM920 with the ARMv4 instructionset? |
| 02:43.57 | prpplague | that would be my guess, and i suspect that it might be a samsung device |
| 03:04.30 | solar | s3c2440 overclocked via a crystal? |
| 03:06.37 | prpplague | s3c2440 is 405mhz with a 12mhz xtal and 393 with 16mhz xtal |
| 03:06.50 | prpplague | solar jackhammer is 405mhz |
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| 03:25.06 | RobotGuy | The Didj looks really interesting - 393 MHz ARM9. |
| 03:25.33 | prpplague | yea gonna pick one up on friday |
| 03:25.39 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I think JackHammer could work with the 0.1 spaced pins. |
| 03:26.32 | prpplague | jackhammer looks to be dead at the momment |
| 03:26.42 | prpplague | atleast for tct |
| 03:26.50 | RobotGuy | Bummer |
| 03:26.56 | ds2 | y? |
| 03:27.38 | prpplague | just no demand everything seems to be in the sub $100 range and arduino style of dev |
| 03:27.51 | ds2 | oh :( |
| 03:28.32 | prpplague | i have a small production run that i'm gonna check to see if we can send some out to selected people |
| 03:30.01 | prpplague | looks like we are probably going to do a sledgehammer, with reduce ram/flash and features to make it sub $100 |
| 03:30.02 | ds2 | can TCT survive if the other part disposes of engineering? |
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| 03:45.14 | solar | prpplague: your commericial clients are demanding such things (sub 100 range?). Or is that mostly based on the hobby market? |
| 03:45.27 | prpplague | hobby |
| 03:45.41 | RobotGuy | sub $100 may not be reasonable though. |
| 03:45.44 | prpplague | solar commecial clients generally don;t care about the price |
| 03:45.56 | prpplague | within reason |
| 03:45.59 | solar | within reaso |
| 03:46.02 | solar | heh |
| 03:46.11 | prpplague | RobotGuy already done |
| 03:46.12 | solar | you beat me by the letter n |
| 03:46.14 | RobotGuy | likes raisins |
| 03:46.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: With Sledge? |
| 03:47.14 | prpplague | yea |
| 03:47.17 | solar | a/raisins/Whisky |
| 03:47.36 | prpplague | s/whiskey/boobs and beer |
| 03:47.50 | solar | which was the 400mhz board? Sledge or Jack? |
| 03:47.55 | RobotGuy | Jack |
| 03:48.15 | solar | I was really looking fwd to seeing such a thing hit the market. |
| 03:48.16 | RobotGuy | 405 MHz |
| 03:48.21 | RobotGuy | Me too! |
| 03:48.21 | solar | but demand ;/ |
| 03:48.23 | prpplague | jack is 405 |
| 03:48.30 | prpplague | sledge is 203.5 |
| 03:48.44 | RobotGuy | But huge more amounts of I/O |
| 03:48.58 | solar | but then. It's more or less OpenMoko without the cellphone aspects? |
| 03:49.04 | prpplague | yep |
| 03:49.42 | solar | Alot of users are on us/me(gentoo-embedded) recently about that device. |
| 03:50.08 | solar | I'd love to get some of them to step up and slap our qemu into shape. |
| 03:50.33 | solar | but then.. those guys have had a few release changes to push those changes upstream. |
| 03:50.58 | solar | and I've found working with the qmeu ppl to be pretty easy. So the disconnect there baffles me. |
| 03:51.22 | solar | s/changes/chances/ |
| 03:54.53 | prpplague | indeed |
| 03:55.18 | prpplague | solar gotta go, sigwife |
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| 04:57.23 | shaz | hi everyone |
| 04:57.32 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 05:02.39 | shaz | need some help on a cross compile problem |
| 05:02.39 | shaz | anybody? |
| 05:03.37 | shaz | http://pastebin.com/m61f90df |
| 05:04.04 | kergoth | sounds like you're not linking against libgmp when you should be |
| 05:04.18 | kergoth | i'd be willing to bet you'd find that out in about 2 minutes of googling |
| 05:04.24 | shaz | am porting the TPM Emulator and library GMP is giving problems |
| 05:04.43 | shaz | I did that :) but nothing special |
| 05:04.47 | kergoth | it's using gmp functions, there's nothing we can do to magically stop that. |
| 05:05.18 | shaz | so what do I need to do |
| 05:05.51 | kergoth | once again, you're not linking against libgmp when you should be. |
| 05:06.01 | kergoth | get libgmp crosscompiled and link tmpd against it |
| 05:06.10 | kergoth | tpmd, whatever |
| 05:06.14 | shaz | the makefile has -lgmp as LDFLAGS |
| 05:07.00 | shaz | my rootfs has a compiled libgmp.a/libgmp.so |
| 05:07.22 | kergoth | and your rootfs's libdir is in your arm-linux-gcc's link paths? |
| 05:07.27 | kergoth | i don't see a -L there |
| 05:07.51 | shaz | I am not getting this ... |
| 05:08.17 | shaz | I used buildroot to make my toolchain so shouldnt it be handling such stuff |
| 05:11.10 | shaz | I have already cross compiled parts of tpm emulator so this libdir should be set properly. Am I right |
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| 07:12.46 | methril | hola |
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| 07:21.13 | solar | kergoth: question for ya if you are still awake. I noticed OE devs never seemed to go out of it's way to point out improper gnu toolchain to users. 3 host tuples generally wont give users the desired result for a common toolchain. |
| 07:21.20 | [AD]Turbo | yo |
| 07:22.44 | solar | evening yo |
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| 14:13.10 | CosmicPenguin | Its official |
| 14:13.19 | CosmicPenguin | http://o-hand.com/ |
| 14:13.46 | prpplague | looks |
| 14:14.03 | prpplague | HOLY COW |
| 14:14.48 | prpplague | mallum must be sitting pretty now |
| 14:15.00 | prpplague | that is really great news |
| 14:15.24 | CosmicPenguin | Great news for him |
| 14:15.29 | prpplague | indeed |
| 14:15.30 | CosmicPenguin | probably not the greatest for the rest of us |
| 14:15.57 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea, i keep hearing rumors of an AMD atom style processor |
| 14:16.52 | CosmicPenguin | The important thing from o-hand was the software technology |
| 14:17.12 | prpplague | yea |
| 14:17.17 | CosmicPenguin | The hardware is not interesting |
| 14:17.33 | CosmicPenguin | I use o-hand technology on Geode |
| 14:17.54 | CosmicPenguin | So, sad for us - but great for Matthew |
| 14:17.54 | prpplague | seems like the big guys are buying up anyone that has some usuable handheld tech |
| 14:29.58 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 14:31.07 | wmat | holy crap |
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| 14:33.46 | MothaWork | holy carp! |
| 14:34.02 | MothaWork | (that's some good fish...) |
| 14:37.48 | prpplague | MothaWork: indeed |
| 14:43.11 | wmat | heh |
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| 15:33.48 | prpplague | quickdev: greetings |
| 15:37.11 | prpplague | solar: ping |
| 15:38.20 | solar | prpplague: did you put this hangover in my head? |
| 15:38.36 | prpplague | solar: hehe |
| 15:38.39 | prpplague | solar: nope |
| 15:38.42 | solar | whats up? |
| 15:38.54 | prpplague | solar: i think i found the issue with the Morse.c stuff |
| 15:39.12 | prpplague | solar: i'll email you an updated one for you to test when you have time |
| 15:39.51 | solar | signed vs unsigned and the 8bit MCU uses diff sizeof() funky? |
| 15:41.17 | prpplague | solar: yea, sort of, avr stuff uses a slightly different method of calling out that stuff |
| 15:41.33 | prpplague | solar: should use the prog_uint16_t decaleration |
| 15:42.10 | prpplague | solar: basically that keeps those values in flash |
| 15:42.18 | prpplague | solar: instead of trying to load them into ram |
| 15:51.37 | solar | prpplague: I have a few mins to test it out if you have an idea of what/where it needs to be changed |
| 15:52.02 | solar | I assume you mean something like const prog_uint16_t matrix[] = { |
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| 15:57.02 | prpplague | solar: yep |
| 15:57.07 | prpplague | solar: tahts what needs to be changed |
| 16:02.13 | solar | you changed something else? /Morse.c:42: error: 'prog_uint16_t' does not name a type |
| 16:03.15 | prpplague | hmm, i suspect i have a different include, let me do a couple more tests |
| 16:12.23 | prpplague | solar: sorry i did have #include <avr/pgmspace.h> |
| 16:13.00 | prpplague | solar: you can use uint16_t or if you want to leave it in flash you will need to add <avr/pgmspace.h> to your includes |
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| 16:18.42 | solar | Not sure if those mappings are right. SOS Looks like "-. -. -." now. |
| 16:19.13 | prpplague | solar: hmm |
| 16:19.21 | prpplague | solar: let me look at whats going on |
| 16:19.46 | prpplague | solar: that was S-O-S ? |
| 16:20.09 | prpplague | checks to see what he fudged up |
| 16:21.56 | prpplague | solar: can you do just "A" |
| 16:24.01 | solar | should be dit dit dit, dah dah dah, dit dit dit |
| 16:24.18 | prpplague | solar: yea |
| 16:24.37 | prpplague | solar: what does just a single A produce? |
| 16:24.38 | solar | also. "A" vs "a" is yeilding diff results |
| 16:24.59 | prpplague | solar: hmm, what were the results for both? |
| 16:25.20 | solar | A=" -. . . -. . ." vs a=". -. ." |
| 16:26.19 | prpplague | ok, let me re-run my tests, everything mapped ok here, i suspect we have something off in the conversion |
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| 16:27.34 | solar | it might be the signed/unsigned int conversion of matrix[code] |
| 16:28.38 | solar | http://dev.gentoo.org/~solar/embedded/arduino/Morse.c (copy I'm using) |
| 16:28.41 | prpplague | yea, i'll load it up on my atmega48 and test after lunch |
| 16:29.47 | solar | not supposed to be some break; statements in the DoXmit() function? |
| 16:30.41 | solar | shrug. need to shower. |
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| 16:45.08 | prpplague | solar: doh yea, my bad, i made those changes too quickly |
| 16:45.11 | prpplague | solar: re-testing now |
| 16:59.12 | prpplague | solar: you've got spam |
| 17:01.48 | prpplague | solar: the one i'm sending is "worst case" , matrix[c] instead of matrix[(int)c] , and using uint16_t instead of prog_uint16_t |
| 17:02.11 | prpplague | solar: test that configuration first when you have time |
| 17:03.00 | solar | I need to merge your changes into mine. |
| 17:03.10 | solar | actually no I don't yet. |
| 17:03.13 | solar | sure I'll test. |
| 17:04.40 | prpplague | solar: i was trying to all that battery stuff that day, and my mind must have someone else |
| 17:05.52 | solar | prpplague: the new one you just sent returns the Serial console problem. |
| 17:06.05 | kergoth`work | any of you guys familiar with TCP congestion control and window scaling? I don't think my networking training while i was at digi ever covered that :P |
| 17:06.08 | solar | But i think I see what changed. Nothing in the matrix[] right? |
| 17:06.17 | kergoth`work | thinks he should probably pick up the first tcp/ip illustrated book |
| 17:06.37 | prpplague | solar: right it was a problem with my switch |
| 17:07.23 | prpplague | solar: ok should be able to switch back to the matrix[(int)c) as well |
| 17:07.42 | kergoth`work | damnit, understandingl inux network internals doesnt cover tcp |
| 17:07.57 | prpplague | kergoth`work: thats odd |
| 17:08.14 | kergoth`work | good book, just missing that :| |
| 17:09.01 | *** join/#edev monmotha_ (n=monmotha@mail.forwardengineering.com) |
| 17:09.48 | prpplague | solar: guess i really need to build up a board to test this stuff on |
| 17:18.42 | prpplague | solar: looking at the code, do we really need both letter() and DoLetter() ? |
| 17:18.45 | solar | Ok made a few corrections. S-O-S now gives. /W//S//W/ |
| 17:19.22 | prpplague | what the heck is going on |
| 17:19.38 | prpplague | that works fine on my box, can you send me your copy? |
| 17:22.10 | solar | prpplague: http://dev.gentoo.org/~solar/embedded/arduino/Morse.c |
| 17:22.19 | prpplague | grabs and tests |
| 17:28.24 | prpplague | solar: when you are calling letter() what are you passing it? a single char or a string? |
| 17:30.22 | solar | prpplague: a single byte from a serialRead() |
| 17:30.50 | prpplague | solar: ok, you have letter() defined at the top with letter(char *) |
| 17:31.02 | prpplague | solar: i don't avr-gcc is reporting that as an error |
| 17:31.04 | solar | I just added that |
| 17:31.09 | prpplague | solar: ahh ok |
| 17:31.14 | prpplague | solar: testing now |
| 17:32.00 | solar | Don't even need that declaration |
| 17:32.32 | prpplague | solar: yea, looks like there is something about the uint/int/char thats creating a problem |
| 17:35.48 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@72.22.135.39) |
| 17:45.34 | prpplague | solar: you've got spam |
| 17:48.10 | *** join/#edev roxfan (n=dunno@86.223-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 17:56.37 | RobotGuy | Zippity Doo Dah |
| 18:10.16 | *** join/#edev roxfan (n=dunno@86.223-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 18:12.59 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i say we just quit and move to barbados, we can do consulting over the internet |
| 18:14.39 | RobotGuy | Hmmmmm, exotic place, exotic women.. |
| 18:15.56 | CosmicPenguin | I don't do well at sea level |
| 18:16.26 | RobotGuy | prpplague: You can have a completely internet based operation now days, which is cool. Doesn't matter where all the people are. |
| 18:16.56 | CosmicPenguin | problem is, I've already tried consulting - people don't want what I'm selling |
| 18:16.56 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: fine then i'll find someone else, hehe |
| 18:17.06 | RobotGuy | Some good collaberation software and calendaring is all ya need. |
| 18:17.26 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea, we both know that |
| 18:17.36 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: just a joking pipedream |
| 18:17.52 | kergoth`work | RobotGuy: o-hand was distributed at first, didtn have an office at all. a jabber server is one's friend |
| 18:18.20 | RobotGuy | kergoth`work: Yep, that works now days. |
| 18:18.49 | prpplague | kergoth`work: thing is mallum is a great business person as well as a great software developer |
| 18:19.03 | CosmicPenguin | thats where we fall down |
| 18:19.06 | CosmicPenguin | like a ton of bricks |
| 18:19.07 | kergoth`work | yeah, i wouldn't be able to manage that very well |
| 18:19.09 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yep |
| 18:19.17 | RobotGuy | I've been working on one of my .com sites, but need to get a good book on Drupal 6. |
| 18:19.33 | kergoth`work | i can handle architectural stuff for the technology and code, so could probably, in a few years, manage a cto type role, but never ceo |
| 18:19.50 | CosmicPenguin | As long as I don't have to manage customers or people |
| 18:20.08 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i could be selling water in the desert and still have trouble selling it |
| 18:20.14 | RobotGuy | CosmicPenguin: I hate that part - dealing with the public. |
| 18:20.28 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Sounds like me. |
| 18:20.59 | solar | prpplague: thanks. wont be able to test it till later however. Had to go to work. |
| 18:21.00 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: all of us who have mallum on linkedin should sending emails asking him to sponse opensource projects, hehe |
| 18:21.04 | *** join/#edev mbuf (n=shakthim@59.92.42.131) |
| 18:21.05 | prpplague | solar: np |
| 18:21.10 | ds2 | prpplague: you used to be in Lucent sales? ;) j/k |
| 18:21.11 | kergoth`work | you'd be surprised how well even socially inept people can do at sales given the right motivation |
| 18:21.14 | prpplague | solar: i'm soldering up a board to test with |
| 18:21.18 | prpplague | ds2: hehe |
| 18:21.25 | solar | I like the removeal of a the few extra variables |
| 18:21.29 | kergoth`work | or for that matter, selling the right product |
| 18:21.47 | kergoth`work | i'm terrible at social stuff, but give me a group of people to address talking about some project i designed, and you can't shut me up |
| 18:21.48 | RobotGuy | prpplague: What are you going to test on? |
| 18:21.50 | prpplague | kergoth`work: i think that your statement is backed up but the shear numbers of hookers in the world |
| 18:21.56 | kergoth`work | hahah |
| 18:22.32 | RobotGuy | kergoth`work: I can talk about W.A.L.T.E.R. for a long time, but if I am not excited about something it doesn't work. |
| 18:22.38 | prpplague | solar: hehe, i'm totally freaky about saving a few bytes |
| 18:22.38 | kergoth`work | yea |
| 18:22.46 | prpplague | RobotGuy: atmega48 |
| 18:23.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: You really should get at least one Arduino Decimilia, just to see what everyone is excited about and such. It might give you a better idea of what people are using. |
| 18:24.25 | prpplague | RobotGuy: why would i purchase one? i have an atmega48 board here |
| 18:24.53 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I'm not familiar with the Atmega48. |
| 18:25.13 | prpplague | RobotGuy: arduino is a atemga168 which is the same thing as the atmega48 |
| 18:25.17 | *** join/#edev Ian_Daniher (n=it@69.61.230.246) |
| 18:25.28 | prpplague | RobotGuy: just that the atmega48 has 4k of ram and the atmega168 has 16 |
| 18:27.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: sorry , i said ram, but i meant flash |
| 18:27.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Oh, OK, right. And the Atmega88 is the 8k version. |
| 18:27.29 | prpplague | yea |
| 18:29.58 | prpplague | RobotGuy: besides use my money to get a leapster2 |
| 18:30.07 | RobotGuy | There is a 32k version of the Atmega168P also - Atmega328P. I could replace the Basic Micro Atom PRO with an Atmega328P. |
| 18:30.25 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I want to get a Diji. |
| 18:31.00 | prpplague | leapfrog is the king of obfuscation |
| 18:31.11 | RobotGuy | How so? |
| 18:31.25 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, the didj is basically the same as the leapster |
| 18:32.44 | prpplague | RobotGuy: all of their products they have no stencils on any parts, they usually epoxy over sensitive areas, the jtag us usually done as a break off board, and they generally put bogus code in with real code to make it harder to reverse engineer |
| 18:33.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: their products are like K-9 of the hacking world |
| 18:33.12 | MothaWork | good god...what do people have against hacking consumer electronics? |
| 18:33.26 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Are you getting the Leapster2 then? |
| 18:33.33 | prpplague | MothaWork: they don't want people doing custom apps |
| 18:33.41 | MothaWork | hell, if you want to buy my hardware and completely replace the software on it, I don't care |
| 18:33.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy: haven't decided yet |
| 18:33.56 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'll see what they have in stock |
| 18:33.57 | MothaWork | most of my boards have the industry standard JTAG connector on the as an unpopulated footprint |
| 18:33.57 | RobotGuy | Diji has what looks like a larger screen. |
| 18:34.26 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea, the thing is, they usually sell the hardware at very little profit, the money is in the cartridges |
| 18:34.31 | RobotGuy | I might take a trip to Toys 'R Us next Wednesday. |
| 18:34.35 | prpplague | MothaWork: which they do licensed titles |
| 18:34.39 | MothaWork | prpplague: ah, the Gillette model |
| 18:34.42 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea |
| 18:35.01 | prpplague | MothaWork: leapster carts are $25 and the didj carts are $30 |
| 18:35.26 | RobotGuy | Oh, wait, I need a new PSU for my server. Dang. |
| 18:35.31 | MothaWork | most of what we do may have sensitive software on it, but if you want to completely blow away the software and put your own on my hardware, that's not a huge deal |
| 18:35.34 | prpplague | MothaWork: the carts couldn't cost in actual parts more than $0.50 |
| 18:35.42 | MothaWork | prpplague: well, that's a separate issue |
| 18:35.48 | MothaWork | keeping people from copying carts is one thing |
| 18:36.06 | MothaWork | keeping unauthorized enterprises from creating interoperable carts without your licensing is another |
| 18:36.32 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea, the thing is disney and companies like that pay leapfrog a fee to make games available on the leapster |
| 18:36.55 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: I can see why a company would want to do this if they are really only making money on the cartridges. |
| 18:36.58 | MothaWork | well, all they have to do is make that impossible without a hardware mod |
| 18:37.14 | MothaWork | which means just protecting any handshaking keys |
| 18:37.25 | MothaWork | do the micros they use not have security lock bits? |
| 18:37.40 | prpplague | MothaWork: the first version of the leapster didn't |
| 18:37.43 | MothaWork | I'm trying to think of a reason for the epoxy |
| 18:37.54 | MothaWork | if somebody is willing to tear down the chip, they're willing to tear through epoxy and such |
| 18:37.55 | prpplague | MothaWork: the second rev actually used an arm core with a fpga core |
| 18:37.56 | RobotGuy | What prevents a company from creating a Diji work alike, and doing the same thing? |
| 18:38.12 | prpplague | MothaWork: the fpga did all the black box identification of carts |
| 18:38.12 | RobotGuy | Except making it OPEN for others to develop for. |
| 18:38.25 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: cost of entry for end users |
| 18:38.25 | prpplague | RobotGuy: mainly knowledge |
| 18:38.35 | MothaWork | parents don't want to buy their kid a $200 machine |
| 18:39.09 | prpplague | RobotGuy: plenty of those out there, price is too high though |
| 18:39.14 | MothaWork | prpplague: that explains some things though. If they can't lock up the firmware, then they're screwed |
| 18:39.20 | MothaWork | eventually, somebody will tear it down |
| 18:39.29 | prpplague | yea |
| 18:39.30 | RobotGuy | How does Leapster manage to sell theirs at such a low price? |
| 18:39.32 | MothaWork | if you force somebody to tear down a locked micro, that substantially increases th ebarrier to entry |
| 18:39.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hehe, you haven't been listening |
| 18:39.47 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: volume and selling it basically at cost or possibly even a loss |
| 18:39.55 | RobotGuy | Oh. |
| 18:39.57 | MothaWork | it's the Gillette model |
| 18:40.03 | MothaWork | give away the razor and mark up the blades |
| 18:40.15 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the money is in the carts not the handheld |
| 18:40.25 | RobotGuy | Yeah, it's cheaper to buy a new razor with blades. |
| 18:40.34 | prpplague | RobotGuy: they might even make a single dollar on the handheld |
| 18:41.02 | prpplague | RobotGuy: but for every cart they make, they are probably getting between $20 and $23 profit |
| 18:41.16 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: I was more curious why they were going to such extents to protect the physical device from modification |
| 18:41.23 | MothaWork | however, if they can't lock down the firmware, that explains it |
| 18:41.51 | MothaWork | the conventional thing to do here is to authenticate and encrypt the carts (solves both parts of the problem: unauthorized clones and can prevent copying if you are careful about it and have "smart" carts) |
| 18:42.17 | prpplague | MothaWork: the way leapfrog did the second rev of the leapster was to have a portion of the pcb extended |
| 18:42.30 | MothaWork | "extended"? |
| 18:42.30 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: A small UK company is wrestling with this sort of thing now - how to provide upgradability to firmware for their robot kit and still protect their code. |
| 18:42.44 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: if you can lock down the micro, it's not too hard |
| 18:42.46 | prpplague | MothaWork: hmm, one sec, let me see if i can find a pic |
| 18:42.57 | MothaWork | encrypt firmware updates with a key that's already on the device but locked away so nobody can read it out |
| 18:42.59 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: The micro is a dsPIC. |
| 18:43.19 | MothaWork | dsPIC isn't the most secure thing in the world, but it does have readback and debugging locks |
| 18:43.59 | MothaWork | Atmel, ST, and NXP seem to do decently at locking down their micros |
| 18:44.01 | MothaWork | dunno about TI |
| 18:44.18 | MothaWork | Microchip has had some problems (easily torn down chips or even unlockable externally) |
| 18:44.22 | prpplague | MothaWork: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/images/products/Spartan3EEvalBoard-01-L.jpg |
| 18:44.32 | prpplague | MothaWork: see how they have traces run across the board |
| 18:44.44 | prpplague | MothaWork: but if you want, you can "snap" the board apart |
| 18:44.55 | prpplague | MothaWork: breaking the traces |
| 18:45.23 | MothaWork | what does that accomplish for them? |
| 18:45.32 | prpplague | MothaWork: well here is the kicker |
| 18:45.44 | prpplague | MothaWork: the jtag lines are done on the main board as inner layers |
| 18:45.51 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: to do what I was mentioning, your micro also has to be able to program its own flash. I don't know if the dsPIC can or not |
| 18:45.55 | prpplague | MothaWork: meaning they aren't accessable form top or bottom layers |
| 18:45.59 | MothaWork | oh, how nice of them |
| 18:46.05 | MothaWork | and they have a snap-off breakout, I take it |
| 18:46.15 | prpplague | MothaWork: exactly |
| 18:46.22 | MothaWork | it is possible to get around that |
| 18:46.25 | MothaWork | but it's not easy |
| 18:46.31 | prpplague | MothaWork: so they have jtag to program, then snap off the board, and bam |
| 18:46.39 | RobotGuy | I don't think SFE is trying to hide anything though. |
| 18:46.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no we are talking about leapfrog |
| 18:47.13 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: leapfrog is just using a similar physical construction technique to that sparkfun board |
| 18:47.17 | MothaWork | sparkfun has other reasons to do it |
| 18:47.19 | RobotGuy | Oh, OK |
| 18:47.39 | MothaWork | prpplague: I will have to remember that trick though |
| 18:47.47 | chouimat|work | MothaWork: I know another device where the company make it hard to have homebrew software on it ... and I destroyed a few battery packs trying to do the hardware mod on it :) |
| 18:47.50 | MothaWork | prpplague: there are some times when I need JTAG to program and just don't have the room to bring it out nicely |
| 18:47.55 | MothaWork | even to test points |
| 18:48.02 | RobotGuy | Don't those inner signal lines have to be accessible from somewhere though?? |
| 18:48.08 | prpplague | MothaWork: like i said, leapfrog is the absolute best at obfuscation |
| 18:48.22 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: if you're willing to do blind vias and you have a BGA or COB, no |
| 18:48.25 | prpplague | RobotGuy: they are whent he board is mad |
| 18:48.26 | prpplague | made |
| 18:48.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: then they snap the board |
| 18:48.45 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I'm still trying to get hacked firmware on my psp :) |
| 18:48.54 | MothaWork | the only other place the signal exists on an outer layer is underneath the BGA or COB |
| 18:48.57 | MothaWork | totally useless |
| 18:49.28 | RobotGuy | chouimat|work: I have been wondering if the PSP is hackable. Too bad it doesn't have Bluetooth for stereo audio. |
| 18:49.29 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea that method works well for saving space |
| 18:49.36 | prpplague | MothaWork: we do something similiar |
| 18:49.44 | MothaWork | prpplague: you'd love most of my hardware. Has whatever is the standard JTAG connector for the industry on it whenever space allows |
| 18:50.02 | prpplague | MothaWork: but we have a card edge , so the board can be pushed easily into a programmer, rather than having to connect a cable |
| 18:50.07 | MothaWork | whenever space does not permit, they're usually at least through-hole pads if possible, or largeish surface test pads for a bed-of-nails type programmer |
| 18:50.16 | chouimat|work | RobotGuy: psp slim are harder to hack but it's doable you have to modify the battery pack to be able to load a special firmware uploader from the memory stick |
| 18:50.44 | MothaWork | prpplague: I've seen the card edge thing before |
| 18:50.46 | MothaWork | works well enough |
| 18:50.59 | prpplague | MothaWork: but see the cardedge is the part that snaps off |
| 18:51.10 | MothaWork | ah, gotcha |
| 18:51.10 | prpplague | MothaWork: so once its programmer we snap off that section |
| 18:51.22 | RobotGuy | chouimat|work: I like the PSP idea, but I don't like the closed architecture. |
| 18:51.37 | prpplague | MothaWork: you can still get to the jtag for repair, but this makes it easy to mass program quickly |
| 18:51.42 | RobotGuy | I think Pandora comes closest to being open. |
| 18:52.36 | prpplague | MothaWork: when i first looked at the leapster about 5 years ago, i wasn't ready to reverse engineer that, but i think i'm a little more prepared for the leapster2 |
| 18:53.14 | prpplague | MothaWork: the real question is if i succed in getting something going is if leapfrog will try to shut me down |
| 18:53.58 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Wouldn't Leapfrog have to prove you reverse engineered their product to make something new? |
| 18:54.02 | ds2 | RobotGuy: Pandora is about as open as the beagle |
| 18:54.21 | RobotGuy | ds2: I would hope so, since they use the same TI processor. |
| 18:56.43 | RobotGuy | ds2: I still don't think either is *truely* open though. |
| 18:59.22 | RobotGuy | Well, these days, I guess Leapfrog wouldn't have to prove much. :( |
| 18:59.39 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i am sorry i did not understand your question |
| 19:00.25 | RobotGuy | prpplague: How would Leapfrog shut you down? Just threaten a lawsuit? |
| 19:00.32 | prpplague | yea |
| 19:00.46 | RobotGuy | That is so not right. |
| 19:00.57 | prpplague | thats just the way it is |
| 19:01.12 | RobotGuy | Yeah, I know. :( |
| 19:01.32 | RobotGuy | Companies could almost get away with murder, and some probably do. |
| 19:01.43 | chouimat|work | it's the beauty of democracy when people don't care enough to check what their elected morons are up to |
| 19:01.50 | prpplague | the thing is, i've had a sneaking suspection for awhile that leapfrog is using OSS |
| 19:02.22 | MothaWork | well, if you catch them using GPL'd stuff and they threaten to sue, just refer them to the GPL violations people |
| 19:02.25 | RobotGuy | prpplague: If they are, I bet they aren't contributing back. |
| 19:02.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: uh yea that is pretty obvious |
| 19:02.56 | MothaWork | there's LOTS of stuff out there using GPL'd stuff without so much as attribution, let alone including source or pushing back to upstream |
| 19:03.23 | MothaWork | apparently it's OK if a large corporation violates a distribution agreement, but heaven forbid an end user violate a EULA |
| 19:03.35 | prpplague | MothaWork: hehe indeed |
| 19:03.40 | RobotGuy | As fierce as competition is, companies will do almost anything to gain an edge. |
| 19:04.13 | *** join/#edev bbradley (n=bbradley@78-105-167-16.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:04.23 | RobotGuy | remembers the movie "Anti-Trust" and wonders if this really does happen sometimes. |
| 19:05.32 | ds2 | contributing back is not a requirement |
| 19:05.42 | ds2 | they just need to post their sources |
| 19:06.03 | RobotGuy | ds2: If they have made changes, they do have to contribute those back. |
| 19:06.03 | prpplague | ds2: yep, but compling with the posting of source is a requirement |
| 19:06.21 | prpplague | ds2: mattel is suppose to have some new stuff for xmas |
| 19:06.36 | prpplague | they are bad bad about gpl violations |
| 19:06.44 | ds2 | RobotGuy: nope, not at all. they can leave it buried in the posted sources as a puzzle for everyone to discover |
| 19:06.56 | prpplague | but now that there is a precident with verizon, mattel is going to be alot harder to get off the hook |
| 19:07.21 | ds2 | maybe their barbie doll iconifies their level of thinking ;) |
| 19:07.21 | RobotGuy | ds2: That's still contributing back though, in a back hand sort of way. |
| 19:07.56 | ds2 | RobotGuy: *nod* |
| 19:07.58 | prpplague | ds2: usually they play dumb and say it was one of their contractors that did it |
| 19:08.29 | MothaWork | prpplague: which, acting as distributor, does not absolve them of the requirements of the distribution license |
| 19:08.30 | prpplague | but since the busybox vs. verizon case, we now have a precident |
| 19:08.39 | prpplague | MothaWork: exactly |
| 19:09.01 | MothaWork | prpplague: this is BASIC contract law and copyright law. I'm surprised it took that much effort |
| 19:09.33 | prpplague | MothaWork: mainly because no one has had the $$ or legal experience to get a precident |
| 19:09.50 | prpplague | gives a round of applause to landley |
| 19:09.56 | ds2 | prpplague: the contractor part is irrelevant though; the contractor is required by the GPL to provide the sources for any binaries they produced irrespective of any contracts they have. And most of us don't care about that instance of the GPL... it is their distro of GPL binaries that we are interested in ;) |
| 19:10.46 | prpplague | ds2: here lies the issue |
| 19:11.09 | prpplague | ds2: the contract says that mattel paid for the work and only mattel can release the source |
| 19:11.24 | prpplague | ds2: and then mattel says they don't know anything about what the contractor has done |
| 19:11.33 | prpplague | ds2: so each points their fingers in a circle |
| 19:11.41 | MothaWork | The GPL makes it very clear that if you cannot, for basically any reason, comply with the GPL, then you have no choice but to not distribute. It mattel doesn't have the source to distribute, then they can't distribute the product. |
| 19:12.04 | MothaWork | all that one has to do is show that the GPL applies in a "v. Mattell" case (which *should* be a matter of facts) |
| 19:12.08 | ds2 | prpplague: that is invalid, in which case, the contractor's rights under the GPL has been revoked and Mattel has received stolen goods ;) |
| 19:12.10 | prpplague | MothaWork: and here is their argument, "we are buying this as a whole unit" |
| 19:12.23 | MothaWork | prpplague: which contains material subject to the GPL |
| 19:12.23 | prpplague | ds2: thats not really the point |
| 19:12.50 | MothaWork | prpplague: if I buy bootleg DVDs from China "as a whole unit", I'm not immune to being taken to the stockade on criminal copyright infringement when I sell them |
| 19:12.52 | prpplague | i understand both of your point of view, but i'm simply telling you how the game has been played |
| 19:13.07 | ds2 | prpplague: how so? receiving and utilizing stolen goods means Mattel has to recall and destory every copy of what they have |
| 19:13.09 | prpplague | MothaWork: slightly different with the dvd |
| 19:13.16 | MothaWork | prpplague: slightly |
| 19:13.26 | MothaWork | in that case, the bulk of the unit is the copyrighted work in question |
| 19:13.27 | prpplague | MothaWork: you know 100% that the dvd is fake |
| 19:13.40 | prpplague | MothaWork: knowing if the software isn't licensed properly is another |
| 19:13.42 | MothaWork | maybe I don't. Maybe they're damn good bootlegs (such things do exist) |
| 19:14.04 | MothaWork | in which case, the owner of the copyright needs to prove that they are in fact unauthorized |
| 19:14.10 | prpplague | MothaWork: the whole point of the finger pointing is not to do away with the issue,but to delay it enough to make it irrelevant |
| 19:14.26 | prpplague | MothaWork: all good points |
| 19:14.58 | prpplague | MothaWork: however, like i said, the method is mainly to make a delay |
| 19:15.01 | MothaWork | I'm aware of the litigation tactics |
| 19:15.20 | MothaWork | however, if taken to the end, this is actually pretty basic stuff. Once one proves that the GPL applies, it's a pretty clearly written document |
| 19:15.23 | prpplague | MothaWork: just like with the juicebox, the tvnow, the pixter , the pixter-mm, and so on |
| 19:15.43 | prpplague | MothaWork: agreed, only landley has gone forward with any of the cases |
| 19:15.55 | RobotGuy | Go landley!! |
| 19:15.57 | prpplague | MothaWork: verizon tried the exact same thing |
| 19:16.07 | MothaWork | Also, if they delay it until the point where the product is no longer for sale anyway, then turn around and do it again, that makes it easier in most cases to get an injunction (if you pursue it against that entity until the end and win), which they REALLY don't want |
| 19:16.29 | prpplague | MothaWork: only if they move forward with the case |
| 19:16.34 | MothaWork | no company wants to be barred from selling their shiny new product during christmas season |
| 19:16.45 | MothaWork | prpplague: yes, that only applies if you actually get the judgement |
| 19:17.13 | MothaWork | however, having a past judgement against an entity (even if it was worthless by the time you got it due to delays) can make it easier to get an injunction for the same thing in the future |
| 19:17.29 | MothaWork | basically, walk in to court and say "they're doing it again; here's my evidence; I'd like an injunction this time" |
| 19:17.44 | MothaWork | doing that the first time around doesn't work nearly as well as when you can put in the "they're doing it again" part |
| 19:20.14 | MothaWork | of course, nothing's a guarantee, but given that is SOP, there are reasons to pursue a case until judgement (if you think you'll win), even if the product in question is no longer relevant |
| 19:22.05 | RobotGuy | What would -really- happen if a "Mattel" or "Leapfrog" lost a case? |
| 19:22.17 | ds2 | appeal... appeal... |
| 19:22.46 | RobotGuy | All it would take is one Judge to overturn a case. |
| 19:24.19 | RobotGuy | It's probably not likely such a case would get all the way to the Supreme Court. |
| 19:25.18 | RobotGuy | (or whatever your highest judicial branch is) |
| 19:28.48 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea, like i said, the GPL hasn't been tested alot in court, and most of the big company lawyers have figured out they can play games since most of the OSS don't have big bucks |
| 19:29.08 | prpplague | MothaWork: but since the SFLC has been doing pro-bono work, they are starting to take notice |
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| 19:29.47 | prpplague | MothaWork: the settlement with verizon and actiontec wasn't disclosed, but i get the feeling it was pretty darn big |
| 19:34.07 | prpplague | lordy lordy, getting up 2 hours earlier to get the kids to school has gotten me tired this week |
| 19:34.55 | RobotGuy | Sometimes, just getting up, gets me tired. |
| 19:35.11 | prpplague | "The settlement also includes an undisclosed amount of financial consideration paid to the plaintiffs by Actiontec." |
| 19:35.57 | prpplague | RobotGuy: most likely mattel or leapfrog would settle once they found out that the SFLC was serious |
| 19:36.05 | prpplague | RobotGuy: much like verizon and actiontec did |
| 19:36.35 | RobotGuy | That would be interesting to see. |
| 19:36.51 | prpplague | RobotGuy: gotta find a current product that is in violation first |
| 19:37.11 | RobotGuy | It would be more interesting to see the SFLC and Microsoft duke it out. :D |
| 19:37.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: for what? |
| 19:38.08 | RobotGuy | GPL stuff. |
| 19:39.42 | CosmicPenguin | Its highly unlikely that Microsoft has come even close to violating the GPL |
| 19:39.44 | prpplague | i wasn't aware that anyone had found GPL or other OS licenses that were violated by MS |
| 19:39.48 | CosmicPenguin | They are very careful about that |
| 19:39.55 | prpplague | exactly |
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| 19:41.59 | RobotGuy | I was disappointed with Microsoft at OSCON. I had thought they might have a real big showing there as far as a booth, but they didn't. |
| 19:43.43 | g1powermac | well, looks like I'm going in for surgery either this tuesday or friday |
| 19:44.01 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Hi |
| 19:44.23 | g1powermac | hey RobotGuy |
| 19:46.33 | prpplague | g1powermac: finally got scheduled for your free lebautomy? |
| 19:46.47 | g1powermac | heh |
| 19:47.33 | RobotGuy | Where do I sign up? |
| 19:50.03 | *** join/#edev Crofton (n=balister@70-101-253-100.br1.dav.wv.frontiernet.net) |
| 19:52.34 | MothaWork | yeah, Microsoft is about as paranoid of the GPL as they come |
| 19:52.46 | MothaWork | heck, they use that paranoia as a huge weapon in their FUD campaigns |
| 19:53.10 | RobotGuy | Oh, I didn't mean to insinuate I think MS is in violation, only that it would be an interesting confrontation. |
| 19:53.12 | wmat | RobotGuy: freelobotomy.com, of course |
| 19:56.12 | MothaWork | wmat: what's scary is that I'm sure that website exists and is at least somewhat on-topic |
| 19:57.35 | RobotGuy | It does exist, but there is nothing there, at least not yet. |
| 19:58.39 | CosmicPenguin | I think it would probably be less interesting then it sounds |
| 19:58.59 | CosmicPenguin | Software companies are better at knowing and dealing with the legal aspects of software then a services or hardware company like verizon |
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| 20:57.36 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
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| 21:23.25 | wmat | prpplague: what other little embedded focused companies have been bought lately? |
| 21:24.38 | prpplague | wmat: not exactly little, trolltech |
| 21:25.12 | prpplague | wmat: several smaller companies that handheld stuff such as phones |
| 21:27.50 | wmat | right, i knew about trolltech |
| 21:28.02 | CosmicPenguin | 20% off everything in the makershed today |
| 21:28.09 | CosmicPenguin | actually, till sunday |
| 21:28.16 | CosmicPenguin | promotional code 'dogdays' |
| 21:29.04 | prpplague | hehe |
| 21:29.13 | prpplague | wmat: here are few i know about from experience |
| 21:29.15 | prpplague | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3866106906.html |
| 21:29.23 | prpplague | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3276690875.html |
| 21:29.33 | prpplague | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9171544860.html |
| 21:29.51 | prpplague | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6421050543.html |
| 21:30.11 | prpplague | all four of those i've been aware of as they have impacted some aspect of AML business |
| 21:32.38 | wmat | prpplague: I thought you meant recent acquisitions |
| 21:32.55 | wmat | interesting nonetheless |
| 21:37.52 | prpplague | wmat: not that i'm an industry insider but, i hear lots of rumors of lots of deals in the works, had no clue about the o-hand purchase |
| 21:40.18 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i'll be broke again tomorrow, gonna pick up some leapfrog stuff |
| 21:41.07 | Ian_Daniher | CosmicPenguin: I didn't know you were in this channel, lol |
| 21:41.23 | Ian_Daniher | CosmicPenguin: thanks for the headsup about the makeshed |
| 21:41.27 | *** join/#edev CosmicPe1guin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 21:41.35 | CosmicPe1guin | I fought the VPN and the VPN won |
| 21:41.58 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 21:43.56 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: something is wrong with the primary battery charging circuit on the 8050, and the EE keeps telling the boss that its my software |
| 21:44.21 | chouimat|work | prpplague: ouch |
| 21:44.29 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: tell me, i have only 1 gpio to connected to this charger that turns it on or off, how exactly can it be my software? |
| 21:45.18 | CosmicPenguin | clearly its a timing problem |
| 21:45.22 | CosmicPenguin | twiddle that gpio faster |
| 21:45.44 | prpplague | hehe |
| 21:46.04 | chouimat|work | ok time to go home ... |
| 21:46.07 | chouimat|work | later |
| 21:46.35 | prpplague | is down about this project yet again |
| 21:54.30 | prpplague | GPSFan: done any more with the zipitv2? |
| 21:58.26 | *** join/#edev key2 (n=key2@gob75-7-82-247-113-230.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:58.36 | key2 | hi |
| 21:58.48 | key2 | anyone played around with AT91SAM9261 in here ? |
| 21:58.52 | key2 | or S3C2440 |
| 21:59.10 | prpplague | lots on the s3c2440, a few ppl ont he at91 |
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| 22:00.18 | key2 | prpplague: basically, a S3C2440 at 400Mhz is 2x faster than a AT91 ? |
| 22:00.22 | key2 | at 200mhz |
| 22:01.26 | prpplague | key2: generally speaking , yes |
| 22:01.42 | Redhatter | uses an AT91SAM7X256 |
| 22:01.55 | key2 | prpplague: where do you buy S3C2440 ? i don't find it at digikey |
| 22:02.01 | key2 | prpplague: I wanted to compare the price |
| 22:02.28 | prpplague | key2: you want a single board or the actual SoC? |
| 22:02.36 | key2 | the chip |
| 22:02.54 | prpplague | key2: usually you have to purchase thru a samsung distributor |
| 22:03.10 | key2 | prpplague: you have an idea of the retail price ? |
| 22:03.25 | prpplague | checks inventory |
| 22:03.30 | key2 | thx |
| 22:04.48 | prpplague | key2: small qty you are looking at about $19, at 1000 units you drop to around $9 |
| 22:04.56 | roxfan | here's some 2410s http://www.questcomp.com/WebRFQ/ZQuestResults.aspx?pn=S3C2410 |
| 22:06.10 | key2 | mmh not bad |
| 22:06.29 | key2 | I heard S3C is not that great for LCD tho.. |
| 22:06.40 | key2 | but I see it being used in GPS and other phones.. |
| 22:06.43 | key2 | so should be ok |
| 22:06.45 | key2 | I hope |
| 22:07.36 | prpplague | key2: they are fine for qvga |
| 22:07.45 | prpplague | key2: and low end graphics on vga |
| 22:07.48 | key2 | qvga = 480x234 ? |
| 22:07.55 | prpplague | key2: 320x240 |
| 22:08.05 | key2 | ah |
| 22:08.13 | prpplague | key2: s3c2440 would be fine with 480x234 |
| 22:08.24 | key2 | prpplague: mmh ok |
| 22:08.31 | key2 | its a digital output I guess ? |
| 22:08.49 | key2 | like R[5:0] G[5:0] B[5:0] |
| 22:08.50 | key2 | ? |
| 22:08.59 | prpplague | yea, tft and stn supported |
| 22:09.18 | key2 | prpplague: thx |
| 22:09.21 | prpplague | key2: plenty of reference designs available |
| 22:09.26 | prpplague | heads home for the day |
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| 22:42.38 | kergoth | hmm |
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