| 00:00.11 | solar | meant the box itself. |
| 00:00.53 | sunrunner20 | ? |
| 00:01.12 | sunrunner20 | it was a small isp |
| 00:01.26 | sunrunner20 | execpt for teh dslams |
| 00:01.36 | sunrunner20 | there were maby 2 racks |
| 00:02.07 | solar | oh that would not be bad at all then. |
| 00:02.20 | sunrunner20 | nope |
| 00:02.27 | sunrunner20 | they used to be next to my moms office lol |
| 00:03.36 | sunrunner20 | the only complain I ever had with the isp was the 20gb month bandwith cap, in 2006 |
| 00:03.56 | sunrunner20 | I do that in a week lol |
| 00:04.00 | sunrunner20 | or a day |
| 02:05.10 | shaz | Good Morning fellas |
| 02:07.11 | shaz | Why would anyone run multiple instances of Qemu for lets say versatilepb. Maybe Multiple builds or parallel processing for speedy builds? |
| 02:11.53 | *** part/#edev shaz (n=root@116.58.100.82) |
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| 02:31.40 | solar | shaz: cuz you can only alloc 256M of ram per node in qemu and you can't run smp |
| 02:31.54 | solar | so you get more virtual resources out of a box |
| 02:33.04 | RobotGuy | My new Gentoo install boots, but it still wants an SSH passphrase to login. Weird. |
| 02:33.55 | shaz | Solar: and why would anybody need so many virtual resources?? Maybe multiple builds ... |
| 02:34.22 | ds2 | RobotGuy: check /etc/ssh/sshd_config to see if it allows passwords |
| 02:36.43 | RobotGuy | Passwords were turned off. Strange. I will check it next boot. |
| 02:36.54 | shaz | Remembering SSH, I was once trying a rootfs which had drop-bear service enabled and it would get stuck after saying ... generating a 1024 bit key and this might take a while ... and it would be ages until I would kill my qemu instance |
| 02:37.44 | shaz | hmmm |
| 02:39.24 | solar | shaz: building native has it's advantages. But comes at the cost of slower resources that what you are normally used to. With a little work you can find the right balance of virtualization of the host box |
| 02:42.03 | shaz | Solar: What I understand of this is that virtualization is more efficient and effective than native. But what I cant understand is why would anybody need multiple instances of lets say qemu to build apps? |
| 02:42.41 | shaz | Maybe a some kind of job requirement or overload |
| 02:43.04 | solar | oh. probably for distcc |
| 02:44.12 | shaz | Now I understand where the problem is :) What is distcc? |
| 02:44.33 | solar | http://distcc.samba.org/ |
| 02:44.42 | shaz | let me see |
| 02:46.36 | shaz | Solar: Does it really work or is it experimental because it sounds great! |
| 02:46.45 | solar | it works |
| 02:47.09 | solar | but cross compile is even faster and thats the path I wish ppl would work on fixing |
| 02:47.50 | shaz | i have been trying cross compile for two months starting from scratch but its very frustrating |
| 02:49.19 | shaz | Mostly packages customized for cross compiles work nice but others with simple configure scripts and makefiles are a hell for newbies like me |
| 02:49.53 | shaz | Although I learned a lot. |
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| 03:24.25 | shaz | Solar: I just finished a Debian installation over versatile emulation on qemu but ended with a kernel panic! |
| 03:25.05 | shaz | I followed http://www.aurel32.net/info/debian_arm_qemu.php |
| 03:25.26 | shaz | How do you guys do it? |
| 03:55.21 | RobotGuy | Hmmmm, I never thought -I- would be working on a new build system. |
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| 04:27.31 | shaz | Which build system do you use |
| 04:42.04 | RobotGuy | shaz: Creating one from scratch. |
| 04:44.54 | RobotGuy | Now I understand why people create their own build systems. |
| 04:54.01 | ds2 | he he he |
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| 06:43.49 | methril | yo |
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| 07:10.39 | [AD]Turbo | yo |
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| 11:57.10 | g1powermac | well, surgery has been postponed |
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| 13:27.01 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: surgery postponed? |
| 13:29.26 | g1powermac | yea, last minute decision by my parents |
| 13:29.55 | prpplague | g1powermac: oh? |
| 13:30.55 | g1powermac | yea, it was a complicated decision, but in any case I'll be seeing another surgeon tomorrow |
| 13:31.26 | prpplague | ahh ok |
| 13:31.54 | g1powermac | hey does anyone here have any experience with lattice cplds? |
| 13:32.07 | MothaWork | nope, only Xilinx |
| 13:32.21 | g1powermac | they have a really nice cpld |
| 13:32.31 | g1powermac | actually its a cross of a fpga and a cpld |
| 13:32.56 | MothaWork | non-volatile fpga? |
| 13:33.04 | g1powermac | http://www.latticesemi.com/products/cpldspld/machxo/index.cfm |
| 13:34.05 | MothaWork | ah, it's a CPLD with embedded memory, basically |
| 13:34.20 | MothaWork | oh, and a PLL |
| 13:34.24 | g1powermac | yea |
| 13:34.35 | MothaWork | interesting idea |
| 13:34.38 | g1powermac | really nice, you can also get the largest one they make in a 100qfp package |
| 13:34.44 | g1powermac | 1100+ macrocells |
| 13:35.38 | g1powermac | which is exactly what I need, low amount of I/O pins, high amount of logic |
| 13:35.51 | g1powermac | I just don't know how lattice works with their software |
| 13:36.04 | MothaWork | I've not used lattice's software |
| 13:38.31 | MothaWork | I think Xilinx would probably push you to their Spartan-3AN for those applications, but the lattice part looks like it might be something better matched for that niche |
| 13:38.54 | g1powermac | yea |
| 13:41.36 | MothaWork | actually, I guess I have used an older version of ISPlever |
| 13:41.39 | MothaWork | I was not impressed |
| 13:41.54 | MothaWork | but it was several years old at the time and it was several years ago |
| 13:42.03 | MothaWork | for all I know, they could have completely re-written it by now |
| 13:42.10 | g1powermac | yea, it looks like you need the classic version if using any other cpld besides this one |
| 13:42.31 | g1powermac | with this one, you use the ispLEVER for fpgas |
| 13:44.23 | MothaWork | it's built more like a FPGA than a CPLD |
| 13:44.26 | MothaWork | so that makes sense |
| 13:45.48 | g1powermac | looks like you get to use the software free, though you need to request a license every 6 months |
| 13:47.07 | MothaWork | I know ISE Webpack works on anything that size and is free |
| 13:47.17 | MothaWork | I have an old version of full ISE, but I only have webpack ISE 9 |
| 13:47.39 | g1powermac | yea, but ISE isn't going to work on a Lattice device :-) |
| 13:48.26 | MothaWork | no, it won't :) |
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| 14:05.30 | g1powermac | MothaWork, you know, these lattice chips aren't even very expensive, only around $20 for one offs |
| 14:07.38 | g1powermac | only annoying part is I don't think they're 5v I/O tolerant |
| 14:14.44 | g1powermac | hmm, but it does say the larger chips are compliant with PCI voltages, which are 5v. . . |
| 14:15.33 | MothaWork | I'm a fan of the 9500XL series from Xilinx |
| 14:15.42 | MothaWork | smallest device (9536XL) is $1 in single quantity from digi-key! |
| 14:15.53 | MothaWork | I can't imagine what volume pricing on that looks like |
| 14:17.17 | g1powermac | yea, I'm looking at a batch of the xc9536 (the 5v version) on ebay |
| 14:17.23 | g1powermac | 260 of them |
| 14:17.35 | g1powermac | they've been selling for just over $100 |
| 14:17.55 | g1powermac | well, this explains it: "All the I/Os on the top side of the MachXO1200 and MachXO2280 devices (Banks 0 and 1) have a clamp diode |
| 14:17.55 | g1powermac | that is used to clamp the voltage at the input to VCCIO. This clamp diode can be used along with an external resistor |
| 14:17.55 | g1powermac | to make an input 5V tolerant. |
| 14:17.55 | g1powermac | " |
| 14:17.56 | g1powermac | err |
| 14:18.10 | g1powermac | All the I/Os on the top side of the MachXO1200 and MachXO2280 devices (Banks 0 and 1) have a clamp diode |
| 14:18.12 | g1powermac | that is used to clamp the voltage at the input to VCCIO. This clamp diode can be used along with an external resistor |
| 14:18.15 | g1powermac | to make an input 5V tolerant. |
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| 14:29.27 | g1powermac | hmm |
| 14:29.40 | g1powermac | the xc3s200a may work too |
| 14:29.51 | g1powermac | they're also available in 100qfp packaging |
| 14:30.03 | g1powermac | not sure which would be more useful |
| 14:30.35 | g1powermac | the lattice cpld with 1100+ macrocells and distributed sram, or a 200k gates fpga |
| 14:33.09 | g1powermac | anyone want to take a stab at that? :-) |
| 14:40.41 | MothaWork | depends on what you're doing |
| 14:41.11 | MothaWork | the 5V versions of the 9500 series tend to cost WAY more than the XL 3.3V versions do |
| 14:41.19 | g1powermac | I need to create five uarts plus a system to control info being passed around the five uarts |
| 14:41.23 | MothaWork | they are "not recommended for new designs" |
| 15:04.46 | chouimat|work | morning |
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| 15:50.57 | kergoth`work | morning |
| 15:51.33 | prpplague | kergoth`work: greetings |
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| 16:15.34 | prpplague | ~seen sjhill |
| 16:15.39 | purl | sjhill <n=sjhill@real.realitydiluted.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #edev, 5d 22h 1m 14s ago, saying: 'greetings bit slingers'. |
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| 16:26.22 | RobotGuy | Hey, does anyone know what (In Xorg) requires module pcidata and what I need to enable to get it or disable to get rid of it? |
| 16:29.48 | CosmicPenguin | pcidata is in the server proper |
| 16:30.02 | CosmicPenguin | you can't disable it |
| 16:30.15 | RobotGuy | CosmicPenguin: Why am I not getting the pcidata module? |
| 16:30.58 | CosmicPenguin | Are you growing your own or using a distro? |
| 16:31.15 | RobotGuy | CosmicPenguin: Gentoo 2008 |
| 16:31.31 | solar | which version of Xorg ? |
| 16:31.41 | solar | and how are you attempting to configure X ? |
| 16:32.12 | RobotGuy | solar: [ebuild R ] x11-base/xorg-server-1.4.2 |
| 16:33.16 | RobotGuy | solar: Copied xorg.conf (which works) from my broken Gentoo. |
| 16:39.12 | solar | s/works/worked/ |
| 16:39.26 | solar | RobotGuy: can you quickly try. X --configure |
| 16:39.45 | solar | then merge the changes from the two. |
| 16:40.15 | RobotGuy | solar: Unrecognized option: -configure |
| 16:40.53 | RobotGuy | solar: Whoops, had --configure. -configure won't run because of pcidata not available |
| 16:42.08 | RobotGuy | solar: http://rafb.net/p/oEMArc56.html |
| 16:49.53 | RobotGuy | G'Mornin everyone |
| 16:58.02 | MothaWork | g1powermac: well, depending on what kind of "control" you need, I'd either normally use a largeish CPLD or a small FPGA |
| 16:58.22 | MothaWork | if I just need a state machine, a CPLD will usually do. If you want an embedded micro (soft core) or similar, an FPGA is usually required. |
| 16:58.36 | MothaWork | However, that Lattice CPLD looks like you could probably put a small micro on it if you really wanted to |
| 16:59.56 | RobotGuy | Lots of possibilities at OpenCores http://www.opencores.org |
| 17:00.58 | RobotGuy | is on the command line today |
| 17:01.54 | chouimat|work | prpplague: http://www.jumbojoke.com/images/dumb-questions.jpg |
| 17:02.22 | prpplague | cute |
| 17:03.25 | RobotGuy | Awwwww, I didn't know you cared.. ;) |
| 17:03.32 | RobotGuy | grins |
| 17:04.04 | RobotGuy | thinks he needs a new state machine |
| 17:04.32 | g1powermac | MothaWork, interesting |
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| 17:05.29 | g1powermac | MothaWork, I think I may go with the fpga, as I may need a soft core micro in it |
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| 17:06.19 | RobotGuy | I'd love to connect an FPGA to Hammer some time. |
| 17:06.41 | MothaWork | g1powermac: you could probably put a soft core on that Lattice CPLD, but it might take up a good chunk of it |
| 17:07.06 | MothaWork | speaking of all this, any interest in something like a AVR paired with a CPLD or small FPGA? |
| 17:07.08 | MothaWork | as a dev board |
| 17:07.20 | g1powermac_PB | MothaWork: fpslic |
| 17:07.25 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Check Open Cores. They have various cores available in various sizes. |
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| 17:07.32 | MothaWork | g1powermac: I'm aware of those, but the dev software is hard to come by |
| 17:07.57 | MothaWork | ISE Webpack is free and easy to get |
| 17:08.01 | g1powermac_PB | yea |
| 17:08.03 | MothaWork | just give them an email address |
| 17:08.14 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: Atmega128 paired with a nice FPGA. Could make a nice auxilliary board for Hammmer.. :D |
| 17:08.22 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: yea, I know |
| 17:09.28 | RobotGuy | Even an Atmega644 would be nice with a CPLD/FPGA |
| 17:09.56 | RobotGuy | Oh yeah, Sanguino on Steroids.. :) |
| 17:10.53 | solar | soon. |
| 17:11.03 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: Hammer-RDP has stacking board capability. :) |
| 17:12.06 | ds2 | ewwwwww Xilink power hogs |
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| 17:12.12 | g1powermac_PB | MothaWork: it is absolutely annoying about atmel and their dev software for the their cplds and fpgas |
| 17:12.18 | prpplague | trying to decide if i want to depopulate the cpu on the didj main board |
| 17:12.20 | RobotGuy | Ian_Daniher: Greetings |
| 17:12.24 | g1powermac_PB | they have some nice stuff but just can't use it |
| 17:12.52 | RobotGuy | prpplague: You know you want to.. |
| 17:13.10 | g1powermac_PB | I like their fpgas, which allow partial reconfiguration |
| 17:13.19 | RobotGuy | prpplague: What would you gain by doing that? |
| 17:15.22 | prpplague | RobotGuy: lots, exact pin count, ring out the test pads, ringout the usb, ringout the sdram, ringout the flash, that way i'd have a more complete list of pins to match with known products |
| 17:15.51 | RobotGuy | prpplague: If I were you, I'd do it then. |
| 17:16.09 | prpplague | already did |
| 17:16.23 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I knew you would. :p |
| 17:16.54 | g1powermac_PB | if only all of us had access to tools that prpplague can use :-) |
| 17:17.13 | g1powermac_PB | no electronic product would be safe ;-) |
| 17:17.17 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: And the ability and talent he has to use them. |
| 17:17.20 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: everyone can, its just a $30 heat gun |
| 17:17.51 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: yea, but at least you got the tools to stick the chip back on :-) |
| 17:18.09 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: hehe, indeed, but i won't |
| 17:18.14 | RobotGuy | No disassemble! ;) |
| 17:18.24 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: this board will stay with the bga off |
| 17:18.35 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: ahh |
| 17:18.57 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: usually have 3 of the devices to work with |
| 17:19.09 | g1powermac_PB | just got an idea. . . |
| 17:19.10 | prpplague | g1powermac: 1 as a reference, 1 to disassemble, and 1 to hack on |
| 17:19.29 | g1powermac_PB | the one downside to heat guns is the air flow blowing everything off the board |
| 17:19.52 | RobotGuy | What's the idea? <runs and hides> |
| 17:19.58 | g1powermac_PB | what if you killed the fan in the heat gun and opened the nozzle up a bit to use pure infrared |
| 17:20.12 | g1powermac_PB | I wonder if the heat gun would blow up |
| 17:20.23 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: most the commercial heat guns have low flow fans |
| 17:20.33 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: its not like a hair dryer |
| 17:20.47 | g1powermac_PB | yea, but that can still blow some of the really small components |
| 17:21.09 | prpplague | never had a problem before |
| 17:21.57 | g1powermac_PB | this also may allow infrared reworking. . . |
| 17:22.07 | g1powermac_PB | if the heat gun doesn't melt ;-) |
| 17:22.43 | RobotGuy | gets g1powermac_PB some well insulated gloves.. |
| 17:23.18 | g1powermac_PB | hehe, I got some fiberglass gloves meant specifically to handle really hot things :-) |
| 17:25.11 | RobotGuy | Hey, why are you not away having surgery? |
| 17:25.32 | g1powermac_PB | it was postponed |
| 17:26.03 | RobotGuy | Wow, kind of last minute there. |
| 17:26.08 | g1powermac_PB | should have a new surgery date tomorrow |
| 17:28.52 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: that's about what I was thinking. I was actually going to pair a 90USB1287 (which is something akin to a Mega128 + USB OTG controller) w/ the smallest Spartan-3E or one of the largest 9500XL or Coolrunner 2 |
| 17:30.29 | MothaWork | but if you're going to stack it on something with more umph (and its own USB), you don't need the USB |
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| 17:33.01 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: True, but wouldn't the added USB be useful? |
| 17:33.43 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: An FPGA that could take a soft core processor would be real nice. :) |
| 17:34.18 | RobotGuy | really likes having as many options as possible because choices are good to have. ;) |
| 17:34.59 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: Could such a thing be done on a 3" x 3" board? |
| 17:35.39 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: shouldn't be a problem to do 3x3", no |
| 17:36.02 | MothaWork | should be able to do that without going to BGAs, though I may have to put some power on the bottom |
| 17:36.17 | RobotGuy | I'll have to check with Rusty on the Hammer-RDP. Somethings are changing which could affect the board size. |
| 17:36.17 | MothaWork | I'd set it up so that the AVR could program the FPGA |
| 17:36.48 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: Yes, that would be a nice setup. |
| 17:37.05 | MothaWork | I don't know about Lattice, but I know that Xilinx FPGAs can be programmed using SPI |
| 17:37.26 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: And Xilinx has FREE Linux tools. :D |
| 17:37.37 | MothaWork | Spartan 3s have fairly lax power requirements (in terms of sequencing and # rails) compared to some FPGAs, so that's nice, too |
| 17:37.47 | ds2 | Xilinx can also burn a hole in your power budget :( |
| 17:37.56 | RobotGuy | really likes the Xilinx parts. |
| 17:38.01 | MothaWork | ds2: that is true |
| 17:38.07 | MothaWork | Xilinx is not noted for being uber low power |
| 17:38.21 | MothaWork | their market tends to be density and speed |
| 17:38.29 | MothaWork | Altera I know has some low power stuff |
| 17:38.43 | ds2 | i really would like to hear from someone that has tried the actel stuff... from their booth and sales guy, it seems like an ideal power solution |
| 17:38.50 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: Altera has no free tools other than trials that time out. |
| 17:38.56 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: I am aware |
| 17:39.04 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: I mean no free Linux tools. |
| 17:39.10 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: that's a major reason I have not used Altera stuff |
| 17:39.34 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: That's why I will avoid Altera for FPGA stuff when I can start with it. |
| 17:39.37 | g1powermac | forget the linux tools, they barely have free tools for windows too |
| 17:39.39 | ds2 | the altera are loaded at boot time like the xilinx, right? |
| 17:39.40 | prpplague | very interesting, they put epoxy on the bottom of the bga so that it would be difficult to remove |
| 17:39.46 | g1powermac | ds2, yup |
| 17:39.48 | MothaWork | ds2: probably |
| 17:39.52 | ds2 | yuck |
| 17:39.53 | prpplague | looks to be 288 pins |
| 17:40.10 | MothaWork | ds2: Xilinx does have a non-volatile FPGA (Spartan-3AN), but it's just a normal SRAM FPGA paired with some flash that automatically loads |
| 17:40.20 | g1powermac | yup |
| 17:40.22 | MothaWork | I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a die stack internally of the FPGA and platform flash |
| 17:40.31 | prpplague | yep 288 pins |
| 17:40.32 | RobotGuy | Hmmm, 288 balls in a 15mm x 15mm package. I haven't seen anything that fits that description so far. |
| 17:40.42 | g1powermac | and you can't get really small spartan 3ANs |
| 17:40.49 | g1powermac | at least not 100 qfp's |
| 17:40.53 | MothaWork | g1powermac: no, you can't. The S3A series is designed for IO |
| 17:40.58 | MothaWork | so it's usually high pin count |
| 17:41.10 | g1powermac | yea |
| 17:41.16 | RobotGuy | The 3A's have DSP. :) |
| 17:41.26 | MothaWork | that's true, there are the S3A+DSP |
| 17:41.45 | MothaWork | I'm used to the Virtexes with the DSPSlice |
| 17:41.45 | g1powermac | they aren't small either |
| 17:41.54 | MothaWork | none of the S3A series is small |
| 17:41.59 | g1powermac | ugh, virtex's |
| 17:42.07 | g1powermac | actually, there is a small s3a |
| 17:42.09 | MothaWork | hey, what's wrong with the Virtex series? |
| 17:42.12 | g1powermac | just the standard s3a |
| 17:42.22 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: Have you seen the KNJN and XESS boards? |
| 17:42.24 | g1powermac | they come in 100 qfp |
| 17:42.30 | g1powermac | MothaWork, too expensive :-) |
| 17:42.57 | MothaWork | g1powermac: oh, well, that's just because they're huge :) |
| 17:43.04 | g1powermac | true :-) |
| 17:43.09 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: I've heard of the KNJN at least |
| 17:43.20 | MothaWork | g1powermac: I have a XC2VP30 board |
| 17:43.25 | g1powermac | nice |
| 17:43.34 | MothaWork | 2 PPC cores and more FPGA space than you can easily fill |
| 17:43.41 | RobotGuy | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:43.45 | MothaWork | I put a simple framebuffer video controller on it and it took up 0% of the thing :) |
| 17:43.51 | g1powermac | can you use the ISE webpack with a virtex? |
| 17:43.57 | MothaWork | g1powermac: smaller ones, yes |
| 17:44.11 | MothaWork | 2VP30 is the largest supported (only in ISE 9, ISE8 only did the 2VP20) |
| 17:44.20 | g1powermac | hmm |
| 17:44.22 | MothaWork | they also support some V4s and V5s |
| 17:44.25 | MothaWork | but not the huge ones |
| 17:44.31 | g1powermac | is that 30,000 gates? |
| 17:44.43 | MothaWork | 30M, I thought |
| 17:45.26 | MothaWork | Xilinx tends to prefer to rate them using other units than gate count |
| 17:45.38 | g1powermac | ahh |
| 17:45.46 | MothaWork | it's 30k "logic cells" |
| 17:46.01 | MothaWork | which is a LUT + carry + FF |
| 17:46.07 | g1powermac | ahh |
| 17:46.27 | *** join/#edev bbradley (n=bbradley@78-105-167-16.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:46.49 | g1powermac | http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-2-XILINX-VIRTEX-XC2V4000_W0QQitemZ250288305799QQihZ015QQcategoryZ26261QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 17:46.52 | g1powermac | now thats a deal :-) |
| 17:46.56 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: Would you get the $149.00 Xilinx board or the SFE setup for FPGAs if you had to choose? |
| 17:47.10 | g1powermac | of course I'd have to hire prpplague to stick them on a board ;-) |
| 17:47.22 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: I'm a fan of the Digilent Nexsys 2 |
| 17:47.32 | g1powermac | ahh, digilent, I like their stuff |
| 17:47.33 | MothaWork | good assortment of hardware for $100 |
| 17:47.38 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: How much is that one? |
| 17:47.46 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: $100 direct from digilent |
| 17:47.49 | RobotGuy | $100.00? |
| 17:47.59 | MothaWork | digilent is the contract maker of most of Xilinx's dev boards, BTW |
| 17:48.00 | g1powermac | MothaWork, I doubt those suckers are supported in ISE webpack ;-) |
| 17:48.02 | MothaWork | even if they don't sell them directly |
| 17:48.10 | MothaWork | g1powermac: XC2V4000? no |
| 17:48.18 | g1powermac | dang ;-) |
| 17:48.18 | RobotGuy | Oooooooooooh. But, dang, I don't need more new toys right now. I don't know how to use all the ones I have yet. |
| 17:48.35 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, get those fpgas for the fun of it ;-) |
| 17:48.56 | MothaWork | and holy hell that is a deal |
| 17:49.00 | MothaWork | good luck soldering them down, though |
| 17:49.02 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, you could prolly implement half the chips you own in one of those ;-) |
| 17:49.10 | g1powermac | MothaWork, tell me about it |
| 17:49.16 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Very tempting. VERRRRRRRRRRRRRY tempting. I have to fix a down server though - think all it needs is a new PSU to handle the ATI video card. |
| 17:49.51 | g1powermac | MothaWork, I'd buy them just because if I didn't spent a crap load of money on some other lots |
| 17:50.07 | MothaWork | g1powermac: supposedly a Pentium Pro can be crammed onto a XC2VP30 with no cache |
| 17:50.09 | RobotGuy | wants a crap load of money to spend. |
| 17:50.32 | MothaWork | that 2V4000 is about 40k cells |
| 17:50.40 | MothaWork | so 1/3 larger than my 2Vp30 |
| 17:50.48 | RobotGuy | I probably won't be able to fix my server until next month tough. :( :( |
| 17:50.50 | g1powermac | now here's another deal: http://cgi.ebay.com/Xilinx-Virtex-II-2-FPGA-XC2V6000-Chips-Lot-8-Pieces_W0QQitemZ220273899238QQihZ012QQcategoryZ26261QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 17:51.04 | g1powermac | though not as great as the earlier one |
| 17:51.22 | MothaWork | indeed |
| 17:51.25 | g1powermac | $300 for 8 xc2v6000's |
| 17:51.26 | MothaWork | also not guaranteed against DOA |
| 17:51.34 | MothaWork | though good luck getting an ebay seller to honor such a guarantee |
| 17:51.39 | MothaWork | paypal might at least refund your money |
| 17:51.40 | g1powermac | ahh, missed that |
| 17:51.41 | g1powermac | yea |
| 17:52.18 | MothaWork | you can fit an amazing amount onto even a small S3E |
| 17:52.43 | MothaWork | supposedly nVidia prototypes their GPUs on Virtex 4s |
| 17:52.48 | MothaWork | they may be on V5s now |
| 17:52.51 | g1powermac | interesting |
| 17:52.55 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: I'd like to get the Xilinx MicroBlaze/Spartan 3A kit. |
| 17:53.03 | MothaWork | they can fit the whole thing onto the large V4, but it doesn't run at ASIC speed |
| 17:53.15 | RobotGuy | The previous kit had Spartan 3E on it. |
| 17:53.16 | MothaWork | from what I'm told, they achieve ~100MHz on the FPGA |
| 17:53.25 | g1powermac | I'd love to really get to play with one. . .but for what I'm planning, it was alot cheaper to buy large lots of stuff to make my parallel computer |
| 17:53.54 | g1powermac | MothaWork, not bad |
| 17:54.11 | MothaWork | g1powermac: indeed, though realize those FPGAs are ~$20k |
| 17:54.19 | g1powermac | dang |
| 17:54.45 | g1powermac | I'll stick with the 4,000k gates Spartan 3's :-) |
| 17:54.52 | MothaWork | heh |
| 17:55.02 | MothaWork | XC2VP30 in qty. 1 from Digi-Key is about $900-1000 |
| 17:55.13 | MothaWork | figure you can halve that if you buy 3k+ |
| 17:55.28 | MothaWork | 10k+ might get you into the $300s |
| 17:55.53 | g1powermac | heh, I'd need lots of cash ;-) |
| 17:56.15 | RobotGuy | wonders where solar went. |
| 17:57.42 | RobotGuy | is majorly overdrawn from last month. :( :( |
| 17:58.37 | g1powermac | http://cgi.ebay.com/8-Xilinx-XC3S1500-4FGG676C-new-REDUCED-more_W0QQitemZ150288416879QQihZ005QQcategoryZ4663QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 17:58.41 | g1powermac | thats a pretty good deal |
| 17:59.05 | RobotGuy | 1.5M Gate Spartan 3E |
| 17:59.09 | g1powermac | yup |
| 17:59.14 | g1powermac | 8 of them for $135 |
| 17:59.22 | RobotGuy | Wow, very nice deal! |
| 17:59.31 | g1powermac | they normally go for $121 each |
| 17:59.36 | RobotGuy | I know. |
| 18:00.12 | g1powermac | of course you still need someone to solder one of those suckers on to a board :-) |
| 18:00.15 | RobotGuy | I have these nice QVGA LCDs to trade.. You don't get the one with the touch screen though. |
| 18:00.49 | ds2 | how good/bad of a price is a $25 NTSC capable 2.5" LCD? |
| 18:00.59 | MothaWork | fyi, if anybody buys the Nexys 2, pay for the FPGA upgrade. It's well worth the price they charge. |
| 18:01.00 | RobotGuy | I should keep them all though, cuz I know I will most likely damage at least one. |
| 18:01.02 | g1powermac | ds2, seems pretty decent |
| 18:01.08 | MothaWork | ds2: not bad in small qty |
| 18:01.20 | MothaWork | if you're buying 100+, that's not great, though |
| 18:01.22 | MothaWork | TFT or STN? |
| 18:01.22 | RobotGuy | Nexys 2? |
| 18:01.28 | ds2 | MothaWork: it is a close out item... |
| 18:01.30 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: the Digilent S3E dev board |
| 18:01.37 | MothaWork | ds2: doesn't mean the price is good :) |
| 18:01.43 | ds2 | donno about the TFT/STN yet... I need to power it up |
| 18:01.48 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: I think they are TFT but not sure. |
| 18:01.50 | MothaWork | ds2: probably TFT these days |
| 18:01.52 | ds2 | MothaWork: hence the reason I ask ;) |
| 18:02.08 | ds2 | $25 is about the price of a photoframe...and this one supports NTSC in |
| 18:02.12 | MothaWork | ds2: with an NTSC decoder (i.e. hook up composite video and it workS), that's not terrible |
| 18:02.19 | MothaWork | certainly not in single quantity |
| 18:02.26 | MothaWork | in 100+, I'd try to drop that to th $17-20 range, though |
| 18:02.30 | g1powermac | I'd like a ntsc lcd. . . |
| 18:02.33 | prpplague | well here is what we know: 15x15mm, 288pins, .65mm pitch |
| 18:02.46 | ds2 | *nod* but this is a product, for $17-$20, you are getting a bare frame |
| 18:02.52 | MothaWork | prpplague: Samsung and Freescale both like .65mm pitch |
| 18:03.01 | ds2 | I get a 4 AA holder, a case, and a jack |
| 18:03.07 | [g2] | ds2 are you making frames ? |
| 18:03.09 | MothaWork | Freescale more than Samsung (samsung prefers 0.5 in most cases it seems) |
| 18:03.15 | g1powermac | ds2, thats nice, what product is it? |
| 18:03.18 | ds2 | [g2]: no, I just have use for NTSC LCD |
| 18:03.22 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea, but none appear to be 15x15mm |
| 18:03.30 | ds2 | g1powermac: it is a photoviewer for cameras that have NTSC out |
| 18:03.38 | g1powermac | ahh |
| 18:03.42 | MothaWork | prpplague: hum, then I'm stumped |
| 18:03.43 | Ian_Daniher | RobotGuy: hey |
| 18:03.45 | RobotGuy | found his Propeller board kit. |
| 18:03.46 | MothaWork | you know the ARMs on the market better than I do |
| 18:03.46 | g1powermac | got a link to a product page? |
| 18:04.14 | ds2 | g1powermac: donno, I'll know more when I at it later. Still recovering from the weekend |
| 18:04.18 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Would LeapFrog stack two chips in a single package? Custom? |
| 18:04.21 | g1powermac | ds2, k |
| 18:04.27 | prpplague | RobotGuy: entirelly possible |
| 18:04.32 | prpplague | but not likely |
| 18:04.39 | ds2 | prpplague: what board is this again? |
| 18:04.44 | RobotGuy | Didj |
| 18:04.45 | ds2 | LF |
| 18:05.05 | g1powermac | the didj is interesting |
| 18:05.15 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Indeed it is! |
| 18:05.26 | ds2 | RobotGuy: POP appears to be relatively standard for the OMAP's |
| 18:05.33 | prpplague | ds2: the cpu board from the Didj from leapfrog |
| 18:05.59 | ds2 | prpplague: does it have a seperate SDRAM/Flash chip? |
| 18:06.05 | RobotGuy | ds2: In English please. :p |
| 18:06.09 | prpplague | ds2: yea |
| 18:06.19 | g1powermac | so you guys are trying to figure out what proc is in it? |
| 18:06.24 | prpplague | ds2: which is why i don't think its pop |
| 18:06.39 | ds2 | RobotGuy: POP == Package On Package memory... basically 2 BGAs stacked on top of each other like what you described |
| 18:07.00 | RobotGuy | ds2: Ahhh, OK. I didn't know that term before. Thanks. |
| 18:07.16 | ds2 | prpplague: have you ruled out OMAPs? |
| 18:07.28 | g1powermac | gotta love the industry's acronyms |
| 18:07.30 | prpplague | not as of yet |
| 18:07.35 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, do you CoB? |
| 18:07.39 | g1powermac | you *know |
| 18:07.46 | ds2 | RobotGuy: I didn't know til I started working with the OMAPs... took a while to realize why there is no seperate SDRAM/Flash chip on the board I was working with ;) |
| 18:08.18 | ds2 | prpplague: is it a NAND boot setup? |
| 18:08.20 | roxfan | still working on that thing prpplague? couldn't use jtag? |
| 18:08.27 | RobotGuy | Cash overdrawn Buy. |
| 18:08.35 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, hehe |
| 18:08.53 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i bitbanged around, but didn't get anything right away, depopulated to cpu |
| 18:08.59 | g1powermac | RobotGuy, it means, Chip on Board, its those stupid chips that you see on a pcb that look like a blob of epoxy |
| 18:09.00 | prpplague | RobotGuy: so i could try and narrow it down |
| 18:09.17 | RobotGuy | Oh, OK. The blob thing |
| 18:09.27 | g1powermac | hates those |
| 18:09.38 | g1powermac | worse than bgas |
| 18:09.55 | *** join/#edev cbrake (n=cbrake@oh-69-34-21-229.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 18:10.13 | RobotGuy | I'm on command line right now, so can't check around on stuff. |
| 18:10.16 | ds2 | would pay good money to see someone rework a COB successfully ;) |
| 18:10.19 | prpplague | RobotGuy: http://www.elinux.org/Chip_On_Board |
| 18:10.26 | RobotGuy | Can't get X to run. :( |
| 18:11.11 | ds2 | prpplague: any hints from the support chips on there (besides the memory)? |
| 18:11.49 | prpplague | ds2: none |
| 18:12.18 | prpplague | ds2: does have a cirus logic audio |
| 18:12.18 | MothaWork | prpplague: you know where JTAG is? Issue the ID command. |
| 18:12.22 | MothaWork | It may or may not respond. |
| 18:12.35 | ds2 | prpplague: AC97 or I2S? |
| 18:12.36 | prpplague | MothaWork: i have a suspected jtag, but i was unable to get an ID |
| 18:12.45 | ds2 | don't think that many ARMs do AC97 |
| 18:12.55 | MothaWork | can you confirm that it is JTAG (i.e. issue EXTEST and see if it does something)? |
| 18:13.00 | MothaWork | ds2: not many do, no |
| 18:13.04 | MothaWork | though some certainly do |
| 18:13.18 | ds2 | *cough*PXA*cough* |
| 18:13.22 | prpplague | MothaWork: no, not been able to confirm that it is jtag as of yet |
| 18:13.33 | MothaWork | Checking app notes for support chips (like audio) is a good start. Most designs are just collections of app notes |
| 18:13.43 | MothaWork | so check reference design BOMs |
| 18:13.51 | MothaWork | ds2: The high end Atmel ARM9s do AC97, also |
| 18:13.56 | ds2 | is this a 1.8V chip or a 3.3V chip? |
| 18:13.57 | prpplague | ds2: i2s |
| 18:14.11 | ds2 | MothaWork: what's a high end Atmel nowadays? the RM9200? |
| 18:14.34 | MothaWork | ds2: AT91SAM926x |
| 18:14.34 | prpplague | ds2: just started checking the voltages, i'm guessing that it is 1.8v core but 3.3v i/o since the lcd is 3.3v |
| 18:14.38 | MothaWork | ARM926EJ-S |
| 18:14.56 | prpplague | yea, nothing seems to match the size and number of pins |
| 18:15.10 | MothaWork | ds2: my Atmel rep has told me they are working on an ARM11 |
| 18:15.21 | MothaWork | ds2: no mention yet of anything like a Cortex A8 |
| 18:15.22 | g1powermac | MothaWork, oh cool |
| 18:15.27 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Could it be an FPGA with a soft core processor? |
| 18:15.32 | ds2 | maybe it is a custom freescale part kind of like the MotoGX stuff? |
| 18:15.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy: not likely |
| 18:15.49 | ds2 | MothaWork: are they keeping the QFP packages? |
| 18:16.38 | MothaWork | ds2: do not know. I have told my rep that QFP options are always welcome |
| 18:17.02 | MothaWork | BGA assembly is expensive, and those <1mm pitch BGAs require non-standard design rules like < 5/5 trace/space and <10mil vias |
| 18:17.13 | ds2 | MothaWork: any Linux capable of ARM with QFP options are getting scarce :( |
| 18:17.25 | ds2 | or ball over via assembly |
| 18:17.26 | MothaWork | ds2: indeed. AT91SAM9260 is available in QFP still, though |
| 18:17.33 | MothaWork | oh god, ball over via sucks |
| 18:17.53 | ds2 | I wonder if ball over via works better with blind vias |
| 18:17.57 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: Also the AVR32/7001 is available in QFP208 |
| 18:18.00 | MothaWork | I guess it might |
| 18:18.13 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: oh yeah, their AVR32s have a lot of QFP options. The BGAs are 1mm pitch, too |
| 18:18.13 | ds2 | or does that cause a vacumm/air flow problem |
| 18:18.26 | MothaWork | ds2: I don't know. It would eliminate the wicking through the via |
| 18:18.40 | MothaWork | though plated closed vias would also do that |
| 18:19.02 | MothaWork | I've never had a design where I could justify the expense of blind/buried vias, so I've never used them |
| 18:19.45 | MothaWork | ds2: looks like Atmel is going to bring out their SAM9XE series (ARM9 + flash on chip) in QFP |
| 18:20.21 | RobotGuy | Anyone interested in a new IDE for the Arduino and compatibles should try #ArduinoIDE |
| 18:20.32 | g1powermac | just wishes atmel had better software support for their fpgas. . . |
| 18:20.54 | *** part/#edev RobotGuy (n=root@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 18:22.23 | prpplague | hmm, curious, says its a usb2.0 connection, and that it has openGL support |
| 18:23.37 | ds2 | MothaWork: isn't SAM9XE for very high volume apps only? |
| 18:24.44 | *** join/#edev adyer (n=adyer@adsl-69-223-13-78.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 18:25.09 | MothaWork | ds2: I do not know. I'd have to ask my rep. |
| 18:25.24 | MothaWork | ds2: Atmel's definition of "high volume" seems fairly low by some companies' standards, actually. |
| 18:25.29 | ds2 | MothaWork: that's what I remember from their booth |
| 18:25.40 | MothaWork | 1k might be sufficient |
| 18:26.57 | MothaWork | ds2: it's a very compelling platform. Lots of integrated peripherals, HS USB 2.0, and enough onboard memory to run a small OS (though probably not Linux) |
| 18:27.39 | prpplague | freescale does seem to use more .65mm packages |
| 18:28.13 | MothaWork | ds2: erm, sorry, I'm mixing the 9RL and 9XE |
| 18:28.33 | MothaWork | 9XE only has FS USB |
| 18:28.41 | MothaWork | prpplague: yeah, it seems their preferred pitch |
| 18:28.45 | MothaWork | as annoying of a pitch as it is |
| 18:28.51 | ds2 | prpplague: try comparing notes with the MotoGX guys |
| 18:28.53 | MothaWork | if you're going to go <0.75mm, just go to 0.5 |
| 18:29.06 | prpplague | ds2: motogx? |
| 18:29.20 | ds2 | prpplague: the current generation of Motorola Linux phones |
| 18:29.33 | ds2 | the previous generation was in the OpenEZX platform |
| 18:29.37 | prpplague | ahh |
| 18:29.38 | ds2 | s/in/on/ |
| 18:29.46 | prpplague | ds2: got a url for hardware info? |
| 18:29.49 | ds2 | they also have a mystery arm on the phone |
| 18:30.09 | ds2 | prpplague: try #openezx or www.openezx.org |
| 18:30.56 | prpplague | doesn't like #openezx |
| 18:32.19 | prpplague | doesn't appear to be anything on their wiki about motogx |
| 18:32.33 | ds2 | let me look for the specific link |
| 18:33.45 | MothaWork | prpplague: you could always send the chip to flylogic or similar and have them decap it and image the nomenclature |
| 18:33.53 | MothaWork | I think that's $200 |
| 18:34.05 | MothaWork | and you get lots of pretty pictures back :) |
| 18:34.23 | prpplague | never heard of flylogic |
| 18:34.24 | ds2 | there are bits here - |
| 18:34.26 | ds2 | http://wiki.openezx.org/Main_Page |
| 18:34.29 | prpplague | that would be good though |
| 18:34.43 | ds2 | there isn't much know about it just yet |
| 18:35.12 | prpplague | ds2: i must be missing something, i don't see motogx anywhere on that page |
| 18:35.15 | MothaWork | prpplague: www.flylogic.net |
| 18:35.15 | g1powermac_PB | MothaWork: hmm, I got some chips here that I'd love to send to flylogic |
| 18:35.19 | MothaWork | check out their blog |
| 18:35.26 | ds2 | MotoMAGX, sorry my memory bad |
| 18:35.50 | ds2 | still looking for the photo of the boards |
| 18:36.14 | g1powermac_PB | MothaWork: got some old xilinx fpgas I'd love to figure out how to manually configure |
| 18:36.20 | g1powermac_PB | how they work |
| 18:37.14 | MothaWork | g1powermac: decapping and imaging them probably won't help you a whole lot with that |
| 18:37.30 | g1powermac_PB | hmm |
| 18:37.49 | prpplague | hnnm, i dont see hardly any arm cores that are 288 pins |
| 18:37.54 | prpplague | i see bunches that are 289 |
| 18:38.07 | ds2 | prpplague: here's photos of the board: http://wiki.openezx.org/Image:Img_2960_Or.jpg |
| 18:38.07 | *** join/#edev Ian_Daniher_ (n=it@69.61.230.246) |
| 18:38.22 | ds2 | maybe 289 is 288 + a key pin? |
| 18:38.49 | prpplague | ds2: that was my guess, but i'm not seeing anything like that |
| 18:39.08 | g1powermac_PB | MothaWork: how would you figure out the structure of the fpga then? |
| 18:39.12 | ds2 | bbl lunch |
| 18:39.23 | MothaWork | g1powermac: the datasheet is usually much more informative |
| 18:39.38 | g1powermac_PB | yea, but not enough to create my own bitstream |
| 18:39.44 | MothaWork | no, not enough |
| 18:39.58 | MothaWork | just saying that a decapped chip doesn't yield a ton of useful info unless you're pretty good with VLSI |
| 18:40.34 | g1powermac_PB | ahh |
| 18:41.05 | *** join/#edev bbradley_ (n=bbradley@78-105-167-16.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:42.21 | prpplague | yea i have weird feeling that this might be a freescale device |
| 18:42.45 | MothaWork | prpplague: try matching up power pad patterns |
| 18:42.57 | MothaWork | some manufacturers have nice patterns, though some are totally random |
| 18:43.51 | prpplague | MonMotha: yea, i don;t see one that matches 100%, but they are closer than anything i've seen so far |
| 18:45.04 | MothaWork | prpplague: can you perhaps load your own code onto it? |
| 18:45.17 | MothaWork | Freescale devices usually have an ID register you can read |
| 18:45.34 | prpplague | yea, i'll have to pick up another unit for me to re-test |
| 18:48.08 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea, all of the frescale stuff seems to have a packed bga, this one has the internal portion blank |
| 18:48.32 | prpplague | wonder if this is a xscale device |
| 18:50.15 | roxfan | is there a firmware update available? |
| 18:51.14 | MothaWork | prpplague: I'm pretty sure I saw i.MX stuff with a center cutout in the BGA grid |
| 18:51.49 | prpplague | roxfan: good question, didn't think of that |
| 18:52.22 | roxfan | is a software guy :) |
| 18:53.57 | prpplague | wow, that was quick, i've already been blocked from access leapfrog.com |
| 18:54.36 | MothaWork | prpplague: what would have prompted that? |
| 18:54.58 | prpplague | MothaWork: i've been crawling around on their site today |
| 18:55.04 | MothaWork | prpplague: I think their website is just dead |
| 18:55.08 | MothaWork | I can't get to it either |
| 18:55.42 | prpplague | ahh ok |
| 18:56.04 | prpplague | looks like there is a firmware update available, not sure if i can get it without using the unit |
| 18:56.06 | MothaWork | either connection reset or it just hangs |
| 18:56.08 | roxfan | http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.leapfrog.com |
| 18:56.17 | g1powermac_PB | yup, dead here too |
| 18:57.32 | CosmicPenguin | okay, so downforeveryoneorjustme is pretty cool |
| 18:57.39 | g1powermac_PB | yea |
| 18:57.51 | prpplague | ahh cool site |
| 18:58.13 | MothaWork | hah, that's a good idea |
| 18:58.46 | MothaWork | appears to be back up now |
| 18:59.41 | prpplague | hmm, still down for me |
| 19:01.21 | *** join/#edev kergoth`work (n=clarson@65.200.49.156) |
| 19:04.54 | prpplague | solar: you know we could use a atmega644 on the M5930 board instead of a atmega128 |
| 19:06.42 | solar | prpplague: it's a downgrade imo |
| 19:06.50 | prpplague | the big question i have is, does the leapster2 use the same processor as the didj |
| 19:07.08 | prpplague | solar: yea, i was just thinking it would make it easier on the environment side |
| 19:08.19 | prpplague | i wonder if they created a DDOS attack by having abunch of leapster2's and didj's trying to connect and do a firmware upgrade |
| 19:09.14 | prpplague | only getting sporatic access to the website |
| 19:10.28 | prpplague | solar: how capable do you think the arduino BT board is? |
| 19:10.43 | prpplague | solar: i mean is that basically what you want for the 5930? |
| 19:11.27 | roxfan | even if not the same, mostl likely from the same family/line |
| 19:12.07 | prpplague | roxfan: yea |
| 19:12.15 | prpplague | roxfan: i'm willing to bet it is the same |
| 19:12.28 | prpplague | it will have to wait to next pay day to find out |
| 19:26.42 | prpplague | hehe, i'm getting a message that the site is down now, and it says that in appreciation of our patience, there will be a 15% discount site wide using promocode SU8TGCS |
| 19:27.08 | chouimat|work | nice |
| 19:29.01 | g1powermac_PB | ooo, nice |
| 19:31.25 | *** join/#edev Ian_Daniher (n=it@204.10.219.119) |
| 19:35.53 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@70.44.174.85.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 19:37.28 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 19:37.42 | prpplague | T0mW: hey hey bud |
| 19:37.59 | prpplague | T0mW: hows the house reinvation going? |
| 19:38.29 | chouimat|work | prpplague: he just sold it because it was too much work ;) |
| 19:38.37 | prpplague | hehe |
| 19:38.44 | prpplague | that doesn't sound like tom |
| 19:41.06 | prpplague | anyone have any objections to me removing this page from the wiki - http://www.elinux.org/User_talk:Gaoteinc |
| 19:42.04 | RobotGuy | It can go. |
| 19:47.09 | RobotGuy | Anyone know any good co-location/server providers? |
| 20:08.48 | T0mW | prpplague: well, I found out that the house is not plug-n-play... |
| 20:09.29 | T0mW | prpplague: good thing I have friends who know how to do stuff with tools that I'm not familiar with: hammer, saw, paint brush... |
| 20:09.31 | T0mW | heh |
| 20:10.10 | MothaWork | Hammers I can use. Saws I can use. Paint rollers I can use. Paint brushes, however... |
| 20:27.41 | prpplague | T0mW: fun fun |
| 20:27.54 | MothaWork | T0mW: I somehow feel more moved in, now. My basement now has 5 arcade machines in it. Nice to be, you know, USING all that space I paid good money for. |
| 20:27.57 | g1powermac_PB | can pretty much do any kind of carpentry minus anything to do with drywall and plumbing :-) |
| 20:28.51 | g1powermac_PB | and I'm not the best at finish carpentry, but I can do it and would do a better job if I had the proper tools for it |
| 20:30.31 | prpplague | ok, if anyone successfully gets a firmware update for the didj, please give me a shout |
| 20:30.46 | g1powermac_PB | still shivers at the thought of doing drywall. . . |
| 20:30.56 | adyer | T0mW: I think houses are pay-n-pray, not plug-n-play |
| 20:31.06 | g1powermac_PB | especially the taping |
| 20:31.06 | MothaWork | Drywall I can do, though I'm not very good at corners. |
| 20:31.30 | MothaWork | g1powermac_PB: don't use paper tape. Use the fiberglass mesh tape. It is WAY easier to deal with if you don't have a banjo gun. |
| 20:31.42 | g1powermac_PB | oh, thanks for the tip |
| 20:31.44 | adyer | g1powermac_PB: I can put it up, but always let someone else tape and mud |
| 20:31.49 | g1powermac_PB | was using paper tape |
| 20:31.51 | MothaWork | other than that, don't be afraid to get mud everywhere. You can always sand it back down. |
| 20:32.27 | MothaWork | g1powermac_PB: yeah. The fiberglass stuff costs ~2x the paper stuff, but if you're doing the work yourself, you're saving far more than that, and it's so much easier to deal with for a non-professional. |
| 20:32.46 | g1powermac_PB | I'll have to try that next time |
| 20:33.14 | MothaWork | now, installing carpet...that's something I call in the pros for |
| 20:33.22 | MothaWork | fortunately, a friend of mine installs carpet professionally :) |
| 20:33.25 | g1powermac_PB | still grumbles at his parents for not getting him the proper tip for the drill so you don't puncture the paper on the drywall when screwing it up |
| 20:33.49 | g1powermac_PB | freikin $5 thing they didn't want to buy |
| 20:34.18 | MothaWork | oh yeah, the fancy tip |
| 20:34.18 | MothaWork | easily worth the cost in most cases |
| 20:34.23 | g1powermac_PB | heck yea |
| 20:35.07 | g1powermac_PB | actually, I've never installed carpet, ya kinda need the proper tools for it |
| 20:35.17 | g1powermac_PB | though I've done my share of other types of flooring |
| 20:35.50 | g1powermac_PB | which reminds me, never put down the kind of parquet flooring that needs you to spread glue. . .man that was fun |
| 20:36.19 | g1powermac_PB | glue was everywhere :-) |
| 20:36.37 | MothaWork | butter? parquet! |
| 20:36.59 | g1powermac_PB | heh |
| 20:37.07 | CosmicPenguin | okay, so that was sort of amusing |
| 20:37.38 | MothaWork | thank you. I'll be here all day. |
| 20:37.47 | g1powermac_PB | MothaWork: peal and stick floorings are a dream to put down :-) |
| 20:37.53 | MothaWork | g1powermac: yes, they are nice |
| 20:38.04 | MothaWork | GOOD laminate flooring is also a breeze |
| 20:38.12 | MothaWork | CHEAP laminate flooring sucks |
| 20:38.24 | MothaWork | I had some cheap laminate wood. It's installed now, but damn was that a pain compared to good stuff. |
| 20:38.26 | g1powermac_PB | for the store we used this really nice peel and stick vinyl planks that look like hardwood floors |
| 20:38.44 | g1powermac_PB | stuff was really nice and held up pretty darn well for all the traffic that goes on it |
| 20:39.33 | g1powermac_PB | now three years later, the all the flooring in the store is starting to really show wear |
| 20:40.33 | g1powermac_PB | its expected though, you're lucky to get 5 years on a floor in a retail store |
| 20:40.34 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i love telling the boss that there everything that _can_ be finish is finished, and everything else is 100% dependent on the EE finishing up the hardware |
| 20:40.48 | CosmicPenguin | oh, you didn't get RIFed? |
| 20:40.58 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: not yet |
| 20:41.04 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: its pretty bad though |
| 20:41.05 | MothaWork | prpplague: holy hell, it took longer for the hardware to get done than software? |
| 20:41.21 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: it was like an episode of "survivor" and everyone was pointing at the EE |
| 20:41.42 | prpplague | MothaWork: oh yea, and the hardware is still no complete |
| 20:41.54 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: ya should've taped it :-) |
| 20:42.05 | ds2 | Has the EE been read the "You are the weakest link, Good bye!" |
| 20:42.10 | MothaWork | prpplague: what's your ratio of software to hardware developers? 100:1? 1000:1? |
| 20:42.42 | g1powermac_PB | ds2: I think that is truly the best tag line ever |
| 20:42.59 | ds2 | g1powermac_PB: you watch the recent DrWho's? |
| 20:43.13 | g1powermac_PB | no, haven't seen them |
| 20:43.17 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: basically its boils down to one of two options, 1) they fire everyone or 2) they fire the EE |
| 20:43.28 | prpplague | MothaWork: 1:1 |
| 20:43.47 | ds2 | g1powermac_PB: you should... they did a future spoof of that where ann is a robot and the weakest link gets vaporized |
| 20:44.01 | g1powermac_PB | hah |
| 20:44.16 | MothaWork | prpplague: good god...that EE must suck |
| 20:44.24 | prpplague | MothaWork: yep |
| 20:45.22 | prpplague | management is pretty unhappy about the progress, so it's my understanding that if they fire everyone, they will either hire all new, or outsource the engineering |
| 20:46.00 | prpplague | problem is , the engineering is pretty darn good, its just that the EE has created massive problems |
| 20:46.15 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: that ain't good |
| 20:46.17 | MothaWork | well, then apparently that fact needs to be communicated |
| 20:46.39 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea, that was kind of what we did on friday |
| 20:47.16 | MothaWork | points out that he knows of a contract engineering company that is capable of making hardware |
| 20:48.11 | ds2 | hardware is NOT that hard |
| 20:48.14 | ds2 | ;) |
| 20:48.32 | ds2 | in some ways hardware is easier then software |
| 20:48.54 | MothaWork | ds2: software systems tend to have a lot more feature creep and integration concerns than hardware |
| 20:49.37 | MothaWork | you'll get no argument from me that I consider hardware easier than software in most cases |
| 20:49.45 | MothaWork | though some of our software people might disagree |
| 20:49.59 | adyer | points out that he knows a contract engineering company that is capable of making hardware, too :-) |
| 20:50.04 | CosmicPenguin | of course hardware is easier then software |
| 20:50.17 | ds2 | software folks needs to remember everything has to connect back to reality |
| 20:50.48 | adyer | ds2: what, when you write a register, a little "1" doesn't get put in a box somewhere? :-) |
| 20:50.53 | g1powermac_PB | reality is for the weak! ;-) |
| 20:51.17 | MothaWork | adyer: sure it does. The box is just really tiny and the "1" doesn't look exactly like it does on your screen. |
| 20:51.35 | MothaWork | you know, product may differ from depiction |
| 20:52.30 | prpplague | hmm, can't seem to find the firmware upgrade on their website |
| 20:52.48 | solar | prpplague: Re: the 644(P).. It is only 4mhz faster. Half the eeprom and flash space. 32 i/o pins vs 53 pins |
| 20:52.53 | ds2 | prpplague: is there a p/n on the flash ? |
| 20:53.12 | prpplague | ds2: http://www.elinux.org/Didj |
| 20:53.16 | prpplague | solar: yea |
| 20:53.23 | solar | prpplague: and it's quite a change. that board was more the planned 644/Hammer hybrid I thought |
| 20:53.42 | adyer | CosmicPenguin: hardware folks get less chances at revising stuff, usually are the ones getting b***ched at about cost, have longer lead times to deal with, and are often at the front end of the project where the PHBs don't want to throw money around to get stuff done |
| 20:54.01 | solar | prpplague: the community will love such a board |
| 20:54.56 | ds2 | prpplague: have you eliminated NXP arms? |
| 20:54.58 | prpplague | solar: ok, so to confirm we are still talking about two boards, one with the atmega128 and BT, the other the hyrbid board, correct? |
| 20:55.13 | prpplague | ds2: yea, they don't have anything that robust |
| 20:55.32 | solar | We are talking about two unique ones. That could probably be wrapped up into two models of the same board |
| 20:57.07 | prpplague | solar: thats what i thought, just wanted to confirm it |
| 20:57.29 | prpplague | solar: the atmega128 board is the one you want first? |
| 20:58.08 | Ian_Daniher | reads scrollback |
| 20:59.33 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: whuh? 644 / hammer!? |
| 20:59.43 | Ian_Daniher | woah |
| 21:00.11 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: let me qualify |
| 21:00.19 | adyer | wow, the didj has a 27 millihertz crystal :-) |
| 21:00.27 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: it is a carrier board that can be populated with either a hamer or a 644 |
| 21:00.33 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: not both at the same time |
| 21:00.47 | prpplague | adyer: 27mhz |
| 21:01.20 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: ah... :/ |
| 21:01.24 | prpplague | adyer: i suspect that it is used for the audio codec |
| 21:01.36 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: is the hammer designed to have the same form-facter and pinout as a 644? |
| 21:01.39 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: besides why would you want both at the same time? |
| 21:01.57 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: no, pinouts are different as well as form factor |
| 21:02.11 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: the hammer is 40-pin dip, and the 644 is a 40-pin pdip |
| 21:02.16 | ds2 | adyer: that's power management for you! |
| 21:02.25 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: but the target board can somehow be used with both? |
| 21:02.33 | adyer | prpplague: 27MHz is common in NTSC stuff, too. |
| 21:02.47 | ds2 | the 12MHz looks like is for the USB stuff |
| 21:03.00 | prpplague | adyer: yea the cirrus logic audio codec does all the audio pll's based on 27MHz |
| 21:03.22 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: yea, the pdip package can sit inside the dip package pinouts |
| 21:03.31 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: ah, hmm |
| 21:03.47 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: so you either populate it with a 40-pin dip socket or a 40-pin pdip socket |
| 21:04.45 | prpplague | solar: so, i should populate the board with pretty much the same stuff as on the arduino-bt board? |
| 21:05.20 | prpplague | looks like the only way to get the didj firmware is to plug it in and register the product so that it can download it |
| 21:05.42 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: ah, gotcha |
| 21:06.01 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: what's the 128/bt board you're talking about? |
| 21:06.18 | ds2 | prplague: plug it in? Hmmmm maybe that is a good idea... find out the USB ids it sues |
| 21:06.20 | ds2 | uses |
| 21:06.32 | ds2 | and any other hints from enumeration |
| 21:06.52 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: basically the same type of board as the arduino-bt board, just uses a atmega128 instead |
| 21:07.00 | prpplague | ds2: hard to do with the cpu removed |
| 21:07.09 | ds2 | prpplague: thought you had a second unit? |
| 21:07.27 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: what's the point? |
| 21:07.42 | prpplague | ds2: i just bought one so far, probably go back in the next day or so and get another |
| 21:07.48 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: mainly cost |
| 21:07.50 | ds2 | ah |
| 21:08.19 | ds2 | I wonder if they are smart enough or maybe stupid enough to attempt to USB boot the device.. if so, that might give you a good clue as to what the proc is |
| 21:08.50 | prpplague | ds2: ?? |
| 21:09.20 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: solar seems to think there is a demand for it |
| 21:09.31 | ds2 | prpplague: some ARMs support booting directly off the USB bus (OMAP and I think some Atmels)... if they use that as an upgrade path, you can snoop the bus and find out what protocol/device it ids itself as |
| 21:09.38 | Ian_Daniher | the price of a 128 in single quantities is... rediculous |
| 21:09.53 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: what serial modem are you planning on using? |
| 21:10.07 | *** join/#edev [g2] (n=tom@nslu2-linux/g2) |
| 21:10.08 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: hehe indeed, but we usually purchase them in 5k qty |
| 21:10.22 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: "we"? |
| 21:10.27 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: blueradio unit that sparkfun used to sell |
| 21:10.31 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: my employer |
| 21:10.41 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: i can buy from them |
| 21:10.45 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: what sort of company do you work for, and do you take summer interns?? |
| 21:10.47 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: at bulk prices |
| 21:11.00 | ds2 | prpplague: do you get the same horror stories from Blueradio as SFE? |
| 21:11.00 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: http://www.amltd.com |
| 21:11.23 | prpplague | ds2: no, what kind of horror stories? we've not had a single problem with them |
| 21:11.47 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: oh, cool |
| 21:11.51 | ds2 | prpplague: getting docs for those things was almost as hard as getting docs for broadcom parts |
| 21:12.16 | prpplague | hmm, we never had a problem |
| 21:12.22 | ds2 | Ian_Daniher: you need a UART bt dongle? |
| 21:12.47 | ds2 | apparently SFE was not allow to post the AT command used |
| 21:13.26 | ds2 | cuz you can buy BT radio modules with either HCI or UART firmware for about $30 in singles elsewhere |
| 21:13.32 | prpplague | ds2: yea, i was aware of that, but all you have to do is send an email requesting it |
| 21:13.38 | Ian_Daniher | ds2: not really, why? |
| 21:13.48 | prpplague | ds2: got a url? |
| 21:13.50 | Ian_Daniher | ds2: I have something of an interest, but no real "need" |
| 21:14.42 | ds2 | prpplague: http://www.semiconductorstore.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=5103 |
| 21:14.51 | ds2 | $26.66, $29.33 for a class 1 version |
| 21:14.59 | ds2 | bluegiga not blueradio though |
| 21:15.00 | prpplague | looks |
| 21:15.15 | ds2 | they also have UART firmware versions |
| 21:15.20 | *** join/#edev Ian_Daniher_ (n=it@69.61.230.246) |
| 21:15.25 | prpplague | oh tasty |
| 21:15.28 | prpplague | ds2: thanks |
| 21:15.30 | Ian_Daniher | tasty indeed |
| 21:15.46 | Ian_Daniher | ds2: thanks for the link |
| 21:15.54 | ds2 | prpplague: the bluegiga guy directed me to these folks |
| 21:16.25 | Ian_Daniher | I've never gotten a bluetooth dongle to work on linux though, which is a bit shit |
| 21:16.40 | ds2 | bluetooth on USB is trivial |
| 21:17.31 | Ian_Daniher | ds2: on a debian based system? |
| 21:18.03 | ds2 | Ian_Daniher: I don't do distros so they are all the same unless you use the vendor molested packages |
| 21:18.10 | Ian_Daniher | ds2: lol |
| 21:18.16 | ds2 | in which case, you should talk to the molester |
| 21:18.27 | Ian_Daniher | I'm assuming you use slackware? |
| 21:18.37 | Ian_Daniher | ds2: specifically, have you ever gotten a bluetooth headset to work on linux? |
| 21:18.41 | prpplague | my problem is, i'm not 100% sure what people will use this board for, so its a little harder to develop it |
| 21:18.45 | ds2 | if you must have a name, I am using SLS :P |
| 21:19.13 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: I have no clue what someone might use it for either |
| 21:19.21 | ds2 | Ian_Daniher: headset as in mono? yep. most recently on several ARM boards same with the stereo (A2DP) one |
| 21:19.57 | Ian_Daniher | ds2: damn... I've had shit luck with it, but would love to get it working |
| 21:20.13 | Ian_Daniher | ds2: did you follow a writeup somewhere, or could you assist me at a later and unspecified date? |
| 21:20.37 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: why would one not just use a 644 and an external bluetooth modem? |
| 21:20.39 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: just a note, this channel is frequented by alot of people from work, we try to keep the language under control so the channel doesn't get blocked from work |
| 21:20.49 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: thats what i said |
| 21:21.09 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: sorry - I'll refrain from such in the future |
| 21:21.12 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: guess people like to buy it all together |
| 21:21.21 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: apparently... |
| 21:21.59 | ds2 | no single write up.. be happy to help if I can get time :/ |
| 21:22.19 | Ian_Daniher | ds2: ok, thanks! |
| 21:23.24 | ds2 | but if you want to do this with a recent bluez-utils, 2 lines into it, prpplague will have me kb'ed ;) |
| 21:24.02 | prpplague | ds2: ?? |
| 21:26.57 | ds2 | prpplague: the language I would use to describe the dbus/bluez situation would run seriously afoul of your languistics standards. :) |
| 21:27.08 | prpplague | ds2: ahh |
| 21:28.12 | Ian_Daniher | haha |
| 21:28.54 | prpplague | roxfan / ds2 / MonMotha i think what i'm going to do is take the hammer, and use it as a test bed |
| 21:29.09 | ds2 | test bed for what? |
| 21:29.22 | prpplague | roxfan / ds2 / MonMotha write up an app and test it with the hammer to detect the jtag, and do some identification stuff |
| 21:29.39 | prpplague | if i start with the hammer, i have a known good situation to work with |
| 21:29.50 | prpplague | once i know its all working, i can test it with the didj cpu |
| 21:29.57 | roxfan | good idea |
| 21:30.01 | ds2 | I like it |
| 21:30.35 | prpplague | the only problem i have is that the flyswatter lines are fixed, so i can't swap them around like roxfans app |
| 21:32.25 | roxfan | hmm you want to control flyswatter from pc? |
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| 21:33.04 | prpplague | roxfan: yea |
| 21:33.22 | prpplague | roxfan: i can use libusb to control a bunch of features |
| 21:33.30 | prpplague | roxfan: looking now at what i can do |
| 21:34.15 | ds2 | prpplague: have you seen the link about the jtag pad identifier setup? |
| 21:35.06 | roxfan | hmm amazon review mentions this: " Run the included CDROM and the didj software and one free game (Jetpack Heroes) are downloaded to the computer." |
| 21:35.13 | roxfan | do you have that game? |
| 21:35.25 | roxfan | the downloaded binary that is |
| 21:35.51 | prpplague | roxfan: do i've not done that yet, i'll need to grab another unit first |
| 21:35.59 | roxfan | ic |
| 21:36.11 | prpplague | roxfan: i removed the cpu earlier today |
| 21:36.19 | roxfan | yeah i've read |
| 21:36.51 | ds2 | prpplague: don't the mfging folks have a reballing machine? ;) |
| 21:36.55 | prpplague | roxfan: the connect software will only retrieve the firmware and game when its connected to a pc |
| 21:37.07 | roxfan | ah |
| 21:37.43 | prpplague | ds2: yea, but time on that is hard to come by |
| 21:37.57 | ds2 | oh :( |
| 21:38.22 | prpplague | hm, ok, there is definatly a ground on TP14 |
| 21:38.38 | prpplague | and TP8 appears to be target Vcc |
| 21:39.14 | ds2 | since this is battery powered, I'd expect powermanagement to be used |
| 21:39.45 | ds2 | and since it lacks a companion chip, that should eliminate ARM's that need a companion for PM |
| 21:45.21 | prpplague | this definetly looks like jtag |
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| 21:48.41 | prpplague | ds2: this has a Vss and Vcc on the pads |
| 21:48.49 | prpplague | ds2: one one each side of the ground |
| 21:49.23 | ds2 | Hmm 2 of them? same voltage? |
| 21:49.30 | prpplague | ds2: that leaves the exact number of pins for nTRST,TCLK,TMS,TDI,and TDO |
| 21:49.54 | prpplague | ds2: sorry i meant that Vcc is on one side, and Vss on the other of the pads |
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| 21:50.28 | prpplague | ds2: i.e. Vss, PAD, PAD , PAD, PAD, PAD, Vcc |
| 21:50.36 | ds2 | prpplague: have you seen this page: http://www.c3a.de/wiki/index.php/JTAG_Finder |
| 21:50.53 | prpplague | ds2: yea, pulled a copy down to look at |
| 21:51.06 | ds2 | very interesting arrangement; signs it got scratched exactly once from initial mfg? |
| 21:52.15 | prpplague | yea |
| 21:53.10 | prpplague | i need to find the reset chip to see if i can identify one of the pads as the nTRST |
| 21:58.09 | roxfan | ds2: my algo is better ;p |
| 21:59.36 | prpplague | one more ic identified |
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| 21:59.48 | roxfan | prpplague: on another device i had similar arrangement, though with one extra pin |
| 21:59.49 | roxfan | VCC, nTRST, TDI, TMS, TCK, TDO, nSRST, GND |
| 22:00.07 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 22:00.24 | roxfan | (nTRST is hypothetical, i haben't actually checked it) |
| 22:00.41 | prpplague | roxfan: yea that makes sense |
| 22:01.05 | prpplague | hmm, this part is marked with 83TI BFM |
| 22:01.34 | ds2 | No logos? |
| 22:01.58 | roxfan | TI might be a hint :) |
| 22:02.55 | prpplague | ds2: too small for a logo |
| 22:03.05 | prpplague | roxfan: yea checking the TI sight now |
| 22:13.15 | prpplague | yea looks like a TI part |
| 22:14.08 | ds2 | reset controller? |
| 22:16.42 | prpplague | nope, http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tps62050.html |
| 22:16.48 | prpplague | there are three onboard |
| 22:19.17 | ds2 | Hmmm wonder if this is some off catalog omap |
| 22:24.52 | MonMotha | TI is known to have lots of off-catalog pars |
| 22:24.54 | MonMotha | *parts |
| 22:27.00 | g1powermac | prpplague, getting somewhere with the didj? |
| 22:27.33 | prpplague | g1powermac: somewhat |
| 22:28.37 | g1powermac | cool |
| 22:28.45 | g1powermac | loves to see stuff reversed engineered |
| 22:30.35 | prpplague | hmm, having trouble identifing a part with IC77K marking, sot23-3 package |
| 22:30.39 | prpplague | heads home |
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| 22:36.46 | ds2 | MonMotha: victim of the off catalog parts? :) |
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| 23:57.54 | dbtid | cbrake: i can't connect to the IRC server... |
