| 00:00.10 | prpplague | solar hehe azultiburon is blue-shark |
| 00:01.07 | solar | was comming up with some kind of fish. Had not got to the blue part yet. |
| 00:01.51 | solar | latin name Prionace glauca |
| 00:03.29 | prpplague | i'm am soooooo gonna have indigestian later tonight |
| 00:03.49 | prpplague | spicy kelbosa with spicy brown mustard |
| 00:03.53 | solar | you had asian noodle salad |
| 00:03.54 | solar | oh |
| 00:04.17 | prpplague | burns going in, burns going out |
| 00:04.45 | prpplague | pray for my wife, she has to sleep in the same bed with me |
| 00:05.17 | prpplague | atleast it isn;t a big bowl of wolf brand chili |
| 00:10.41 | solar | I'm in cali. Eat all the texas chilli ya want :) |
| 00:11.01 | prpplague | solar hehe |
| 00:11.40 | prpplague | solar i don;t suppose with all the vegans there in california, that you have too many sales of wolf brand |
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| 00:12.06 | prpplague | solar thoughts on the pics? |
| 00:14.55 | solar | Thought you would have a little more room inside of the case. But w/ a few tiny mods you should fit in there rather well. Whats funny is a little bit wider and a bit shorter and you are at the same size nearly as the diecimila. |
| 00:14.58 | prpplague | ~lart ce_geek the reminder was suppose to be in the morning, hehe |
| 00:14.59 | purl | whips ce_geek the reminder was suppose to be in the morning, hehe with a wet and grimy noodle just because |
| 00:15.44 | solar | which to be honest is not a bad size. Could almost look at the existing ardy-bt and say. I can do with with a 128 for 2/3 of the cost |
| 00:16.52 | prpplague | yea |
| 00:17.15 | prpplague | ok see the top side of the case? |
| 00:17.20 | ce_geek | prpplague: I guess you get work mail at home too? :) |
| 00:17.28 | prpplague | ce_geek hehe indeed |
| 00:17.34 | prpplague | ce_geek just joking with ya |
| 00:17.43 | ce_geek | prpplague: I can't do that. Thankfully. |
| 00:17.54 | prpplague | ce_geek see how it is basically 2x of the board size on the bottom? |
| 00:18.01 | prpplague | oops that was for solar |
| 00:19.16 | solar | prpplague: that is freespace above the battery? |
| 00:19.34 | prpplague | yea, there is a place for a shield there |
| 00:19.53 | prpplague | http://www.elinux.org/upload/c/c7/Case3.jpg |
| 00:19.56 | prpplague | on the left |
| 00:20.14 | prpplague | here is what i have planned |
| 00:20.28 | prpplague | that space is exactly half the size of the main board |
| 00:21.41 | prpplague | at the half way mark i will have some rabbit bites there so you can either use it as a full size board inside the case, or break it in half and have two shield boards that are the exact same size as the main board |
| 00:24.28 | solar | hrmm. It's my understanding that pcb jobs are usually charged by the square inch. To make a proper shield one needs quite a bit of holes in them in some kinda logical layout |
| 00:24.47 | solar | so that seems like it would spike it up a fair bit |
| 00:25.23 | prpplague | yep, by its by the square inch but since this is a two layer board with very few traces is should be pretty cheap |
| 00:25.58 | prpplague | price won;t be too bad, i'll have actual figures by the end of next week with mockup boards probably eod tomorrow |
| 00:26.03 | MonMotha | solar: materials charges are by area, but setup charges are largely fixed and even then are based mostly on features (trace/space size, # layers, drill sizes, etc) |
| 00:26.16 | MonMotha | so in small qty (<100), board size almost doesn't matter |
| 00:26.39 | prpplague | yea its more about layers and spacing |
| 00:27.18 | MonMotha | in <1000 qty, many board shops just charge by the panel, whatever the panel size ends up being |
| 00:27.42 | prpplague | which is what we will be doing |
| 00:27.43 | solar | http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-82942516561161_2015_271719 <-- basic idea = cheap in the method prpplague is talking about? |
| 00:27.51 | prpplague | a panel of 4 |
| 00:28.01 | prpplague | yep |
| 00:28.22 | prpplague | solar 0.1" holes very few traces |
| 00:28.36 | MonMotha | solar: yeah, that's not too bad. looks like only 1 drill size, 2 layers, probably large feature sizs |
| 00:28.47 | prpplague | MonMotha yep |
| 00:33.46 | prpplague | solar i should have the boards cut tomorrow |
| 00:33.57 | prpplague | the case came too late today for me to do that |
| 00:34.39 | solar | ya thats fine |
| 00:36.12 | prpplague | i;ll have a good mockup for you in the next few days and i'll drop ship it to you |
| 00:38.47 | MonMotha | mmm...hardware |
| 00:38.49 | MonMotha | nom nom nom |
| 00:39.19 | prpplague | hehe |
| 00:39.36 | prpplague | MonMotha you been following what solar and i are working on? |
| 00:39.39 | MonMotha | no |
| 00:40.23 | prpplague | MonMotha got a little atemga board in the works |
| 00:40.41 | MonMotha | ok |
| 00:40.55 | MonMotha | which atmega? |
| 00:41.36 | prpplague | 128 |
| 00:42.58 | MonMotha | ah, so a biggun |
| 00:43.19 | MonMotha | though if you're going there, might consider a 90USB1287 |
| 00:43.30 | MonMotha | 128k mega AVR, effectively + full speed USB OTG |
| 00:43.40 | MonMotha | though it may have a little less IO |
| 00:44.15 | prpplague | MonMotha using a ft2232 to do a rs-232 console and the isp programming |
| 00:45.17 | MonMotha | well, I was thinking more for actual USB projects |
| 00:45.34 | MonMotha | though I guess you can just get a 90USBKey if you want that. They're like $25 |
| 00:45.55 | MonMotha | for some reason, people seem especially fond of bit banging their USB on AVRs |
| 00:46.57 | ce_geek | That sounds really, really painful. |
| 00:47.29 | roxfan | there are libraries |
| 00:47.33 | MonMotha | there's a library out there that does it, but it chews up a LOT of CPU time, and you only get low speed |
| 00:47.38 | MonMotha | and device only, no host/otg |
| 00:48.04 | ce_geek | A friend did lots of USB work with a USB PIC. |
| 00:48.10 | roxfan | sometimes it's all you need... like that caps locker thing |
| 00:48.12 | MonMotha | the USB PICs just suck... |
| 00:48.26 | MonMotha | (then again, if you ask me, PICs in general suck) |
| 00:48.34 | ce_geek | http://eegeek.net/content/category/6/27/32/ |
| 00:48.48 | MonMotha | the Cypress stuff isn't bad, but I don't like how they EOL'd a part on me with NO warning |
| 00:48.52 | MonMotha | so I try to avoid them |
| 00:48.56 | ce_geek | MonMotha: Haha. Why's that? I myself don't have any PIC USB experience. All the undergrad 8-bit stuff was PIC though. |
| 00:49.15 | MonMotha | ce_geek: the architecture is ugly and slow, and the dev tools aren't great |
| 00:49.22 | MonMotha | dev tools are expensive, too |
| 00:49.32 | MonMotha | AVR is fast, clean, and you get GCC |
| 00:50.10 | MonMotha | 8051 is at least good at what it does, and there are some single cycle core 8051s out there now, too |
| 00:50.14 | ce_geek | MonMotha: Yea, a co-worker in my grad lab discovered AVR and is working to convert the department that way. |
| 00:50.17 | MonMotha | I used to like 8051, then I discovered AVR |
| 00:50.36 | MonMotha | I still will use them if I need hardware DIV |
| 00:50.47 | ce_geek | DIV? |
| 00:50.50 | MonMotha | divide |
| 00:51.00 | MonMotha | the AVRs (even mega avr) don't have it, though I think XMEGA might |
| 00:51.22 | MonMotha | 'div' is the mnemonic for divide on 8051 |
| 00:51.37 | MonMotha | A = A / B, B = A % B, IIRC |
| 00:52.25 | roxfan | cortex-m3 got div \o/ |
| 00:52.31 | ce_geek | ah |
| 00:52.35 | MonMotha | it's not a fast instruction on most of the modern 8051 cores, though. Usually 4-12 cycles whereas an add might be 1 |
| 00:52.52 | MonMotha | roxfan: cortex-m3 is a rather hefty ARM. 8051 is a little 8-bit arch :) |
| 00:52.59 | roxfan | yep |
| 00:53.11 | MonMotha | most 8051s get programmed in assembly since they're just that small |
| 00:53.32 | MonMotha | The instruction set, while not orthogonal, is still very nice. It's a practical instruction set. |
| 00:53.32 | ce_geek | MonMotha: I'm wondering where the folks in my department got stuck on PIC. Nobody outside school seems to be a huge fan. I love that GCC works with AVR. |
| 00:53.52 | MonMotha | ce_geek: Many academic places are all over PIC. I think Microchip gives the schools lots of freebies |
| 00:54.26 | ce_geek | MonMotha: I know the free part is huge. The prof can tell the whole class to go get samples and they're free. Students like free. |
| 00:55.00 | ce_geek | MonMotha: The programmers got cheaper too, about 6 months after I spent $150 on a PICSTART+. For $25 they have a programmer now that works with MPLAB, which is kinda nice. |
| 00:55.04 | ce_geek | MPLAB doesn't seem to suck too bad... |
| 00:55.16 | ce_geek | Except that I had to use windows for it. |
| 00:56.14 | MonMotha | yeah, Atmel unfortunately doesn't have an automated samples system |
| 00:56.25 | MonMotha | if you find a sales rep, they'll happily give you a few to play with as a student, but you have to ask a rep |
| 00:56.46 | MonMotha | for programming, I just made a little parallel port cable for use with avrdude. Cost me like $3 |
| 00:56.52 | MonMotha | though now I have a JTAGICE mk2 |
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| 00:58.02 | ce_geek | MonMotha: Yea, chocobo did the same thing. |
| 00:58.06 | ce_geek | MonMotha: Works sweet. |
| 00:58.35 | ce_geek | brb, time to figure out if I fixed glx. |
| 01:01.17 | MonMotha | anything that can program a 128k part in a few seconds isn't bad in my opinion :) |
| 01:01.31 | MonMotha | sure beats the silly Olimex ARM-USB-OCD things we have at work |
| 01:03.00 | roxfan | the price is a bit different though |
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| 01:09.56 | MonMotha | true, though the JTAGICE mkII isn't terrible |
| 01:10.15 | MonMotha | $300 on digi-key |
| 01:10.23 | MonMotha | compared to the fancy ARM JTAG devices, that's cheap |
| 01:10.29 | roxfan | i guess |
| 01:10.51 | roxfan | does it do jtag for other devices? |
| 01:11.05 | MonMotha | just AVR and AVR32 |
| 01:11.41 | roxfan | so you can't use with arm? |
| 01:11.44 | MonMotha | no |
| 01:11.54 | MonMotha | I do kinda wish they'd open the device up a bit |
| 01:11.58 | roxfan | meh |
| 01:12.17 | MonMotha | It's a pretty good price for what it does, though |
| 01:14.35 | roxfan | well, you could try reversing the drivers or whatever they use... |
| 01:14.35 | sunrunner20 | guys |
| 01:14.39 | sunrunner20 | how diff is freeBSD from linux at the shell level? |
| 01:15.09 | roxfan | probably not much... if you use the same interpreter |
| 01:15.18 | sunrunner20 | defaults :) |
| 01:15.22 | sunrunner20 | applying for a job |
| 01:15.31 | sunrunner20 | never used freebsd |
| 01:15.58 | sunrunner20 | I assume that ls and cd are all the same |
| 01:16.03 | sunrunner20 | because its still *nix |
| 01:17.26 | roxfan | there are probably some differences in obscure switches |
| 01:17.35 | roxfan | but basics should be the same |
| 01:18.11 | sunrunner20 | awww man this is lame, I'm only getting 300kbs >_< |
| 01:18.19 | sunrunner20 | I figured |
| 01:47.59 | MonMotha | roxfan: the API to the device is documented. The device itself is what has the smarts |
| 01:48.06 | MonMotha | one of the reasons it's reasonably fast is that it is not big banged |
| 01:48.57 | MonMotha | roxfan: there may be enough docs to do basic JTAG stuff like ID and EXTEST, but I don't think it can do the ARM OCD stuff since that's fairly non-standard to begin with |
| 01:52.35 | MonMotha | sunrunner20: in general, the shell utils are about the same. Just remember that you won't have many of the GNU niceties that you're used to and the default shell will probably be CSH (but bash is often available). |
| 01:53.00 | MonMotha | Now, the filesystem layout and kernel are fairly different, though. So be ready for that. |
| 01:58.20 | solar | device names will seem funny at first. But will come to make sense |
| 01:58.58 | MonMotha | yeah, the devices are usually named completely differently |
| 01:59.06 | MonMotha | especially for non-"historical" devices |
| 01:59.08 | solar | fex no eth0. could be fxp0 or another name based on the type of device |
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| 02:26.54 | sunrunner20 | k |
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| 12:01.40 | [AD]Turbo | yo |
| 12:02.09 | methril | yo |
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| 13:19.10 | prpplague | hmm, hackaday still down |
| 13:19.17 | prpplague | wonders what happened |
| 13:27.09 | prpplague | http://www.teamhackaday.com/2008/09/10/hack-a-day-is-down-for-now/ |
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| 14:02.50 | prpplague | ~seen landley |
| 14:02.53 | purl | landley <n=landley@m570e36d0.tmodns.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #edev, 2d 17h 10m 35s ago, saying: 'Hello world.'. |
| 14:03.09 | prpplague | solar: hey, i wasn't feeling well and went to bed early last night |
| 14:03.17 | prpplague | solar: give me a shout when you are alive |
| 14:15.22 | solar | prpplague: spicy kelbosa with spicy brown mustard kicked your butt eh? |
| 14:18.42 | prpplague | solar: hehe, mostly sinus problems, we've had some rain moving through the area |
| 14:19.20 | solar | really? There is a nice chill in our air this morn w/ an overcast. |
| 14:19.30 | solar | kinda hopes we get some rain |
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| 14:53.25 | prpplague | solar: test boards are cut |
| 15:00.32 | solar | that was fast |
| 15:00.41 | solar | ie. just some pcb you had handy? |
| 15:00.50 | solar | perf board etc? |
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| 15:05.20 | prpplague^2 | solar: just so i can do some fit tests |
| 15:13.11 | prpplague^2 | solar: looks real good |
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| 15:39.07 | solar | prpplague: cool deal. |
| 15:42.54 | prpplague | solar: the only issue i'm seeing right now is where to actually place the BT module on the pcb |
| 15:45.01 | solar | was wondering about that if the pins would nearly be surrounding the device |
| 15:45.22 | solar | was fearing the only way to pull it off would be like in the ethernut board |
| 15:45.42 | solar | 2x rows of pins vs single rows |
| 15:53.58 | solar | http://gist.github.com/9810 (the ending will throw ya off) |
| 15:56.00 | prpplague | solar: yea, i should be able to put it on the back side of the board |
| 15:56.18 | prpplague | solar: but i was actually thinking if we should put the BT module on the shield board |
| 15:57.54 | solar | oh. Does this BT chip have any sort of external antenna possibilities? Hopeing the altoids/plastic cases wont over shield them? |
| 15:58.44 | prpplague | solar: yea, the module has an option for external antenna, you can look at the modules on SFE |
| 15:59.05 | prpplague | solar: which is another reason i was kind of thinking about the BT on the shield board |
| 15:59.50 | prpplague | solar: 1) not everyone getting this board may want a BT module 2) it takes up alot of room 3) placement of the BT module is critical in the case 4) using external antenna is easier with a sheild board |
| 16:00.19 | prpplague | solar: my current mock up uses 4 2x5 headers, and 1 2x10 header |
| 16:01.30 | prpplague | solar: i still not 100% on the 2x10, it might be better to replace it with 2 2x5's since we won't have to stock another part |
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| 16:02.25 | prpplague | lordy lordy |
| 16:02.47 | prpplague | looks like management has finally seen the light about this EEdiot |
| 16:03.00 | solar | that problem just fixed itself? |
| 16:03.21 | prpplague | apparently unknown to me then sent some of schematic work out to a third party for review |
| 16:03.40 | prpplague | lets just say the response from the reviewer was "WTF?" |
| 16:04.38 | prpplague | hmm, still no news or response from either leapfrog or sflc |
| 16:04.47 | prpplague | goes to get some coffe |
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| 16:05.29 | solar | Redhatter: 1,2,3,4 that more or less makes it a smaller http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/images/products/Wiring.jpg |
| 16:05.37 | CosmicPenguin | Interesting to me that prepending stuff to a file is rather complex in Unix |
| 16:05.37 | solar | eek. the time. shower for me. |
| 16:15.14 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: indeed |
| 16:16.00 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i've always that that was interesting, however, if you thinking about it, unix has always been built around a FIFO structure |
| 16:16.39 | prpplague | solar: yea, smaller and cheaper |
| 16:16.52 | prpplague | iirc the wiring board is something like $90 |
| 16:16.54 | prpplague | looks |
| 16:17.13 | Ian_Daniher | yeah, it's $90 |
| 16:17.34 | Ian_Daniher | b/t 80usd and 90usd |
| 16:18.17 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher: whats that about B/T ? |
| 16:18.33 | Ian_Daniher | not sure |
| 16:18.54 | prpplague | <Ian_Daniher> b/t 80usd and 90usd |
| 16:19.03 | Ian_Daniher | oh, between |
| 16:19.07 | prpplague | ahh |
| 16:19.17 | Ian_Daniher | sorry - it's 85usd from sparkfun |
| 16:19.25 | prpplague | np |
| 16:20.26 | prpplague | solar: i was thinking i could design the shield to have the section for the BT module, and you could get it with/without it populated |
| 16:20.35 | Ian_Daniher | for a glorified am128, it's kinda funny that anyone would pay that much |
| 16:23.05 | solar | heh they even charge 40 for header board. http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=35 |
| 16:23.38 | solar | but w.o the BT. You have room for an ever bigger/better chip |
| 16:26.44 | prpplague | solar: its gonna be pretty tight, mainly because of the headers |
| 16:27.18 | prpplague | solar: i think you'll understand when you see the mock up this evening |
| 16:27.35 | solar | fair enough |
| 16:29.35 | prpplague | ok the shield board is cut and clean |
| 16:42.39 | MothaWork | prpplague: hey, do you know about how many bad blocks I should expect on a 256MB (2Gb) NAND device when factory new? |
| 16:42.50 | MothaWork | obviously it'll vary some, but what's a typical number? |
| 16:43.31 | MothaWork | the specs allow up to 40 over the lifetime of the device |
| 16:44.16 | CosmicPenguin | seriuosly though - where is there not a unix commmand to prepend N zeros to the beginning of a file? |
| 16:45.54 | MothaWork | CosmicPenguin: because you haven't written it yet? :) |
| 16:46.11 | CosmicPenguin | heh |
| 16:46.34 | CosmicPenguin | somehow I'm thinking not |
| 16:46.41 | adyer | CosmicPenguin: seems like a 'dd' command ought to be able to get you there |
| 16:46.41 | ds2 | dd if=/dev/zero bs=1 count=N | cat - filetoprepend > newfile |
| 16:46.47 | ds2 | next question! |
| 16:47.02 | ds2 | ;) |
| 16:47.11 | prpplague | MonMotha: usually the rough guide is 1% |
| 16:47.22 | prpplague | of the total number of blocks |
| 16:47.35 | CosmicPenguin | ds2: funny - but the thing is that this is a 600MB file |
| 16:47.35 | MothaWork | prpplague: so on a 2048 block device, I should expect ~20 bad blocks from the factory? |
| 16:47.40 | CosmicPenguin | so "newfile" isn't really a good idea |
| 16:47.52 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea |
| 16:47.57 | prpplague | MothaWork: thats worst case |
| 16:48.17 | MothaWork | prpplague: would 2 bad blocks be low enough to be concerned that I am perhaps not correctly marking them? |
| 16:48.18 | ds2 | CosmicPenguin: hmm don't think there is an API to do prepending w/o using 2x the space |
| 16:48.32 | CosmicPenguin | indeed |
| 16:48.35 | CosmicPenguin | I find that strange |
| 16:48.50 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: uboot's image maker prepends a 64byte header to the zImage, wonder how they are doing it |
| 16:48.52 | CosmicPenguin | but I have a c compiler, and I know how to use it |
| 16:49.06 | MothaWork | CosmicPenguin: there may be some tricks you can pull using mmap |
| 16:49.20 | CosmicPenguin | MothaWork: yeah - you can grow the file with lseek, and then mmap it and copy |
| 16:49.42 | *** join/#edev Ian_Daniher (n=it@204.10.219.119) |
| 16:50.07 | CosmicPenguin | only problem is that this is part of a script, and I hate distributing a C file along with a scdript |
| 16:50.17 | CosmicPenguin | I like it when the scripts use standard linux tools |
| 16:50.26 | MothaWork | I do wish that more of the C API was exposed directly to shell |
| 16:50.38 | MothaWork | obviously mmap doesn't map well to shell |
| 16:50.48 | ds2 | you can do it w/o mmap |
| 16:51.00 | MothaWork | ds2: you can, but it's probably slower |
| 16:51.08 | adyer | CosmicPenguin: http://bashcurescancer.com/prepend-to-a-file-with-sponge-from-moreutils.html |
| 16:51.09 | ds2 | but that is an dangerous thing as you can't guarantee the interegity of the data in the event of an exception |
| 16:51.09 | MothaWork | you never NEED mmap |
| 16:52.13 | ds2 | and you can't expect a 600M move to be atomic ;) |
| 16:53.16 | MothaWork | indeed |
| 16:53.40 | MothaWork | well, unless you have a 600*1024**2*8 bit computer :) |
| 16:53.52 | *** join/#edev bbradley (n=bbradley@78-105-167-16.zone3.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:00.38 | MothaWork | why, WHY?! do people insist on using OO patterns in C? |
| 17:04.47 | kergoth`work | masochists |
| 17:04.49 | kergoth`work | clearly |
| 17:05.33 | MothaWork | kergoth`work: ever read through the Linux MTD code? |
| 17:05.52 | MothaWork | this->select_chip(mtd, chipnr); |
| 17:06.15 | kergoth`work | nothing wrong with a struct of function callbacks, but 'this'? |
| 17:07.11 | MothaWork | agreed |
| 17:11.25 | L_Deluxe | Perhaps I'm being naive, but what's wrong with it? |
| 17:12.19 | MothaWork | L_Deluxe: it tends to throw the mind into a mode of thinking that isn't compatible with the language in use |
| 17:13.15 | L_Deluxe | So if they called it "self" or "device" or anything but "this", that'd be ok? |
| 17:13.26 | MothaWork | not to mention that, in this case, "mtd_select_chip(mtd, chipnr)" would probably be more clear, in line with what actually happens, and more consistent with the rest of the kernel |
| 17:14.04 | MothaWork | The table of callbacks in this case is a bit wonky to begin with. Some of them really are device specific, but many are not, and the API is rather different from what most kernel code uses |
| 17:14.33 | prpplague | solar: connectors populated |
| 17:14.43 | MothaWork | not calling it "this" would have at least helped. The term "this" doesn't even really make a whole lot of sense in the context |
| 17:15.03 | MothaWork | this = mtd->priv, so it's just the private data for the given MTD device |
| 17:16.38 | MothaWork | the code also has some nasties in it like: if(foo) { bar; baz; } else blat(); |
| 17:17.15 | MothaWork | there's linebreaks and indent in there, but, while I don't mind missing {} on conditionals, mixing within a given if statement is a little jarring |
| 17:19.12 | L_Deluxe | That's just coding style, really. Still, it's a good idea to be in the habit of using braces on such things because you just know one day you'll have to add a statement, and if you're not paying close attention when you do that, the result _will_ be wrong. |
| 17:20.53 | MothaWork | L_Deluxe: well, I don't mind if(foo) \n bar(); \n else \n baz(); |
| 17:21.11 | MothaWork | but putting braces on one side of the else but not the other is a little woah |
| 17:21.25 | MothaWork | not a big deal, but add that on top of things like the "psuedo OO" and it starts to generate headaches |
| 17:22.31 | L_Deluxe | OO, itself, is not a bad thing if used right. The catch, as so often the case, is in the predicate. |
| 17:23.51 | L_Deluxe | People always find ways to abuse stuff. |
| 17:25.11 | MothaWork | L_Deluxe: doesn't help that the vast majority of the kernel is the traditional C "function call with state argument" pattern |
| 17:25.39 | *** join/#edev visitors (n=pulstar@198-tar-2.acn.waw.pl) |
| 17:25.51 | MothaWork | up(&dev->sem); vs. dev->unlock(); |
| 17:26.02 | MothaWork | (as a very simple example) |
| 17:26.13 | MothaWork | there's no problem with either of those, but most of the kernel uses the former |
| 17:28.08 | MothaWork | and when you start using "this" (which has specific uses in most OO languages), things can get confusing. i.e. "wtf is 'this' currently?" |
| 17:28.40 | L_Deluxe | There is a place for each approach. |
| 17:29.26 | L_Deluxe | In a non-OO language, though, this has no special meaning. It is whatever it was set to. One ought to be aware of what language one is using. |
| 17:30.18 | MothaWork | I'd say that avoiding the use of "this" when using callback tables in C is a good practice. You're making it look an awful lot like OO at that point, but without the "backend" of OO. I'm not in an object to which "this" can reference. Call it "chip" or something descriptive. |
| 17:30.48 | MothaWork | I shouldn't have to constantly figure out what "this" means, even if you think you're using it consistently |
| 17:31.45 | L_Deluxe | That's fine. If there's a kernel coding style guide, and such things as that are specified in it, they ought to be adhered to. Everybody has a different coding style. Most of them differ. |
| 17:32.24 | MothaWork | well, I'm usually pretty tolerant given that the kernel is hacked on by so many people, but this (being what I'm talking about right now, not "this") is something that really does irk me. It doesn't happen often, fortunately. |
| 17:34.54 | L_Deluxe | You could always complain to the author of that driver, but I wouldn't expect a productive response. |
| 17:35.21 | L_Deluxe | Just in general. I don't know who that is. |
| 17:36.31 | MothaWork | eh, this is just more of a rant :) |
| 17:37.36 | CosmicPenguin | discovers he doesn't need the prepend |
| 17:37.37 | CosmicPenguin | hay! |
| 17:37.56 | *** join/#edev bjorkBSD (n=rachel@ip72-204-41-71.fv.ks.cox.net) |
| 17:38.33 | kergoth`work | okay, i'm seeing random (seemingly) corruption in both rx & tx descriptors in this ethernet driver. both are areas owned by both the cpu and dma at variuos points, that indicates a cache coherency problem of some sort, doesn't it? |
| 17:38.42 | kergoth`work | i'm also seeing random hangs/deadlocks, but i'm trying (very hard) to ignore those.. |
| 17:38.45 | kergoth`work | :P |
| 17:39.51 | adyer | kergoth`work: is it a bus mastering controller? |
| 17:39.51 | Ian_Daniher | CosmicPenguin: no luck with the UART2 :( |
| 17:40.03 | CosmicPenguin | no luck being what? It doesn't work? |
| 17:40.09 | Ian_Daniher | CosmicPenguin: IRQ3 is claimed by something else(lid close, perhaps?) |
| 17:40.14 | Ian_Daniher | and the kernel wouldn't recognize it |
| 17:40.20 | kergoth`work | adyer: its an ethernet controller built into the marvell chipset on this ppc board. beyond that, i don't know much, i'd have to bust out the ugly datasheet |
| 17:40.34 | Ian_Daniher | I *did* write a good fth script with tons of help from Mitch |
| 17:40.41 | Ian_Daniher | which *did* execute w/o error |
| 17:40.51 | Ian_Daniher | but like I said, the kernel complains |
| 17:40.57 | Ian_Daniher | or... rather doesn't |
| 17:41.01 | Ian_Daniher | it doesn't detect it at all |
| 17:41.04 | CosmicPenguin | Ian_Daniher: okay, so then move it to 4 |
| 17:41.23 | CosmicPenguin | you can move it any where in the legacy interrupt space you want |
| 17:41.35 | CosmicPenguin | whats more, the kernel should be able to share interrupts on serial ports |
| 17:41.43 | CosmicPenguin | its not a great idea, mind you, but it can happen |
| 17:41.48 | Ian_Daniher | CosmicPenguin: then... I'm just SOL? |
| 17:41.50 | adyer | kergoth`work: can you just disable the cache entirely for a test? |
| 17:41.57 | CosmicPenguin | Ian_Daniher: no, but you will need to debug |
| 17:41.58 | Ian_Daniher | I'm not sure what's up, here's what I have to go on: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Power_management#Interrupt_Routing |
| 17:42.15 | CosmicPenguin | This probably won't "just work" |
| 17:42.21 | kergoth`work | hmm, thats an idea.. i don't know enough to do so if its possible, but i could try asking our resident ppc guy |
| 17:42.38 | Ian_Daniher | CosmicPenguin: How would I debug this? |
| 17:42.48 | Ian_Daniher | Just experiment with various IRQs until I find something that seems to work? |
| 17:43.00 | CosmicPenguin | Ian_Daniher: well, step one is to figure out if the device was recognized at all |
| 17:43.19 | CosmicPenguin | step 2 is to figure out why the device was rejected |
| 17:43.24 | kergoth`work | there was a bug in the kernel tree related to the __dma_sync (called by the unmapping function), it was invalidating even if the address wasnt cache aligned, so it could end up invalidating someone elses data.. but i have that patch applied, plus i modified the driver so its no longer unaligned for either address or size for the dma |
| 17:43.38 | kergoth`work | so i assume something else is going on in the handoff of control, or the dma engine is on crack |
| 17:43.48 | Ian_Daniher | CosmicPenguin: here's the script, so you have it for reference: http://pastebin.com/m2f80dbdb |
| 17:44.04 | CosmicPenguin | you should put that on the wiki |
| 17:44.05 | CosmicPenguin | seems useful |
| 17:44.22 | Ian_Daniher | CosmicPenguin: some of the values you gave were a tad off, it looked like you adjusted for com3(ttyS2) not com2(ttyS1) |
| 17:44.44 | adyer | kergoth`work: could be something like the net controller flagging a packet as ready before it's done moving it out of a fifo |
| 17:44.49 | CosmicPenguin | Ian_Daniher: yes, that is correct |
| 17:45.02 | Ian_Daniher | CosmicPenguin: the kernel didn't recognize it at all, according to dmesg |
| 17:45.10 | kergoth`work | adyer: hmm |
| 17:45.15 | CosmicPenguin | Then something is wrong with your script |
| 17:45.20 | Ian_Daniher | though according to Blaketh(another vol. devel), I may need to hack something with "setserial" |
| 17:45.42 | kergoth`work | adyer: the test app is reading packets from one socket and sending them on another. it doesnt crash & burn until thousands of connections, like approaching 8-10k |
| 17:45.49 | CosmicPenguin | not if the kernel didn't even detect it |
| 17:46.04 | prpplague | solar: looking really good, 6 2x6 headers, 1 mini-usb , actual size will be 51.5mm x 70.5mm |
| 17:46.17 | kergoth`work | not only am i ignorant of ppc, i'm pretty new to ethernet drivers, and havent had to debug a coherency problem before |
| 17:46.27 | kergoth`work | its a good thing the bug is mine.. /sigh |
| 17:46.34 | Ian_Daniher | CosmicPenguin: I guess I'll go back to the datasheet this weekend |
| 17:47.44 | ds2 | check for missing eieio's... |
| 17:47.47 | prpplague | solar: when i go get the kids from school, i'll post some pics on the wiki |
| 17:48.52 | adyer | kergoth`work: those aren't always easy ones even if you are 100% up on what's going on. |
| 17:51.10 | Ian_Daniher | CosmicPenguin: would anything "bad" happen if I used the registers you gave instead of monkeying with my own? |
| 17:51.20 | Ian_Daniher | It'd give a ttys2, but it would work, right? |
| 17:51.34 | adyer | kergoth`work: i'm not a fan of galileo (the company marvell bought that did most of those chips) based on past experience. Check the errata sheets (may have to offer human sacrifice to get them) |
| 17:51.48 | kergoth`work | i think we have them around here somewhere |
| 17:51.52 | kergoth`work | the old maintainer of this driver works here |
| 17:51.55 | kergoth`work | and he has no ideas on this |
| 17:51.56 | kergoth`work | this worries me |
| 17:53.49 | CosmicPenguin | Ian_Daniher: there doesn't look to be anything wrong with your register settings |
| 17:53.57 | CosmicPenguin | Ian_Daniher: and you are sure the dmesg didn't detect it? |
| 17:55.33 | kergoth`work | adyer: thanks for the pointers, appreciate it |
| 17:55.35 | kergoth`work | 's pretty lost |
| 17:55.38 | kergoth`work | and the bug is critical |
| 17:55.41 | kergoth`work | and the customer is upset |
| 17:55.44 | kergoth`work | :| |
| 17:55.59 | kergoth`work | but is there someone to escalate it to? of course not.. |
| 17:56.05 | kergoth`work | </rant> |
| 17:56.50 | Ian_Daniher | CosmicPenguin: dmesg said nothing about ttyS1, uart, usart etc |
| 17:56.56 | Ian_Daniher | I grep'ed my heart out |
| 17:57.02 | MothaWork | prpplague: I'm seeing on average 2-4 bad blocks on new 2Gb (2048 blocks, large pages) devices. Sound reasonable? |
| 17:57.06 | adyer | kergoth`work: http://www.debuggingrules.com/debuggingrules.jpg |
| 17:57.16 | CosmicPenguin | Ian_Daniher: pastebin your dmesg |
| 17:57.42 | kergoth`work | adyer: shit, i never got past point #1 ;) |
| 17:59.51 | Ian_Daniher | CosmicPenguin: http://69.61.230.246/dmesg |
| 18:00.17 | Ian_Daniher | CosmicPenguin: it's not pastebin, but I'm at school right now - I had to ssh into my labtop computer, minicom into the XO, and scp the file to my server :D |
| 18:01.30 | Ian_Daniher | CosmicPenguin: [ 120.755971] looks interesting |
| 18:02.29 | solar | prpplague: awsome you rock. |
| 18:08.30 | CosmicPenguin | Ian_Daniher: oh, I just saw whats wrong |
| 18:08.36 | CosmicPenguin | 3e8 uses interrupt 4, not 3 |
| 18:09.11 | kergoth`work | adyer: the thing about this is its the buf pointer in the descriptors being corrupted, but the dma operations never write to there, they write to the address pointed to by it, the buffer.. they do write to the status bits in the desc, so i suppose it could be screwing something up doing that, but i dont think your suggestion about flagging it as done too early owuld cause this |
| 18:09.19 | CosmicPenguin | if you had used my registers, you would have gotten 2f8/3 and it would have worked |
| 18:09.37 | CosmicPenguin | Ian_Daniher: either do 2f8/3, 3e8/4 or 2e8/3 |
| 18:09.40 | kergoth`work | glad i have maalox at work |
| 18:09.43 | kergoth`work | and tylenol |
| 18:09.55 | CosmicPenguin | I recommend 3e8/4 |
| 18:13.54 | adyer | kergoth`work: does sound like cache coherency. I've never used a PPC, so can't help you much there |
| 18:14.01 | kergoth`work | ah well |
| 18:14.08 | kergoth`work | hopes he can hand it off to someone else at some ponit |
| 18:14.54 | *** join/#edev Ian_Daniher__ (n=it@204.10.219.119) |
| 18:16.36 | *** join/#edev Ian_Daniher (n=it@204.10.219.119) |
| 18:17.34 | Ian_Daniher | Sep 10 13:58:20 <Ian_Daniher> CosmicPenguin: [ 120.755971] looks interesting |
| 18:17.36 | Ian_Daniher | Sep 10 14:05:20 <CosmicPenguin> Ian_Daniher: oh, I just saw whats wrong |
| 18:17.38 | Ian_Daniher | Sep 10 14:05:26 <CosmicPenguin> 3e8 uses interrupt 4, not 3 |
| 18:17.40 | Ian_Daniher | Sep 10 14:06:10 <CosmicPenguin> if you had used my registers, you would have gotten 2f8/3 and it would have worked |
| 18:17.43 | Ian_Daniher | Sep 10 14:06:28 <CosmicPenguin> Ian_Daniher: either do 2f8/3, 3e8/4 or 2e8/3 |
| 18:17.45 | Ian_Daniher | Sep 10 14:06:46 <CosmicPenguin> I recommend 3e8/4 |
| 18:17.47 | Ian_Daniher | (sorry for flood) |
| 18:17.49 | Ian_Daniher | CosmicPenguin: is that all you said? |
| 18:25.39 | *** join/#edev Ian_Daniher (n=it@69.61.230.246) |
| 18:30.53 | prpplague | hehe, emails to leapfrog go completely unanswered, they won;t even take my calls now, it goes straight to voicemail , hehe |
| 18:39.39 | chouimat | :) |
| 18:54.42 | MothaWork | prpplague: hadn't they said something along the lines of "we're working on it; stop bugging us."? |
| 18:56.28 | prpplague | MonMotha: who? |
| 18:58.16 | *** part/#edev adyer (n=adyer@adsl-69-223-13-78.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 19:01.59 | prpplague | i need to find some time to write up some recommendations on linkedin.com |
| 19:03.00 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: should i start a betting pool to see exactly when they cut the EEdiot loose? |
| 19:05.23 | g1powermac | takes next week |
| 19:05.27 | g1powermac | heya prpplague :-) |
| 19:07.07 | prpplague | g1powermac: hey |
| 19:07.14 | prpplague | g1powermac: naw, need a day |
| 19:07.18 | MothaWork | prpplague: leapfrog |
| 19:07.36 | prpplague | MonMotha: no, they've given no response at all |
| 19:08.27 | prpplague | MonMotha: a unamed source had said something about leapfrog trying to get everything approved via their legal department |
| 19:09.31 | prpplague | MonMotha: but i have had no contact at all from leapfrog, other than their customer service department tell me that all software for the leapfrog is owned by leapfrog and that they don't release code or provide third party development |
| 19:12.03 | MothaWork | prpplague: I see |
| 19:12.08 | MothaWork | obviously customer service will have no idea |
| 19:12.55 | prpplague | indeed |
| 19:13.15 | prpplague | MonMotha: just one of those things i had to do to make sure they couldn't say "well did you actually call and ask?" |
| 19:14.24 | MothaWork | ah |
| 19:14.54 | prpplague | man i have so much stuff to do |
| 19:14.59 | MothaWork | if you really feel like getting personally involved (which may be hard unless you believe you own copyright on and have released under the terms of the GPL something they are distributing), you could always send certified/registered mail to their legal dept. |
| 19:15.04 | MothaWork | that's sure to get some sort of response |
| 19:15.04 | prpplague | hasn't felt this good about dev in a while |
| 19:15.18 | MothaWork | don't have to threaten legal action, just point it out |
| 19:15.37 | MothaWork | ("it" being the GPL terms and that you believe you have something in there) |
| 19:15.44 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea, i suspect that SFLC is doing something, but since i'm not a client the don't have to keep me updated |
| 19:15.56 | prpplague | MonMotha: (or it seems even be nice to me) |
| 19:35.47 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: If they haven't fired him by now.... |
| 19:40.13 | L_Deluxe | I have a basic ARM question. Really basic. |
| 19:40.24 | L_Deluxe | What is the reset value of the CPSR? |
| 19:40.57 | L_Deluxe | I assume FIQ and IRQ are disabled, and, of course, it's in ARM mode. Does it start in SVC mode? |
| 19:41.24 | L_Deluxe | I'm trying to reproduce boot conditions when starting from a bootloader. |
| 19:43.01 | L_Deluxe | This particular ARM chip, in case it's important, is a SAM7X. |
| 19:44.09 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@p57BD25E2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:48.27 | L_Deluxe | Ok, found it... "Forces M[4:0] to b10011, Supervisor mode, sets the I and F bits, and clears the T-bit in the CPSR." |
| 20:20.21 | *** join/#edev Ian_Daniher (n=it@69.61.230.246) |
| 20:51.56 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i was told this morning they've already hired a replacement |
| 20:54.26 | CosmicPenguin | is the old guy going to train the new guy? |
| 20:55.11 | agaffney | prpplague: is this the incompetent EE? |
| 20:55.28 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: lord i hope not |
| 20:55.31 | prpplague | agaffney: yea |
| 20:55.33 | agaffney | hah |
| 21:04.59 | MothaWork | prpplague: I'd again like to call attention to the fact that I know of a company that does contract hardware and software design :) |
| 21:05.06 | *** join/#edev roxfan2 (n=dunno@106.190-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 21:05.28 | MothaWork | prpplague: at least you know that the hardware guy isn't incompetent :) |
| 21:06.15 | prpplague | MonMotha: yea, i'm sure at the stage they start going outside the company for hardware design, they will also be going outside the company for software and i'll probably no be here, hehe |
| 21:06.34 | MothaWork | I see |
| 21:06.41 | prpplague | jokes with MonMotha |
| 21:06.43 | prpplague | <MothaWork> prpplague: at least you know that the hardware guy isn't incompetent :) |
| 21:06.55 | prpplague | thats not what i hear from the grapevine |
| 21:06.58 | prpplague | hehe |
| 21:07.03 | prpplague | jokes with MonMotha |
| 21:07.17 | MothaWork | well, you can make your own judgements |
| 21:07.24 | prpplague | MonMotha: hehe |
| 21:07.38 | MothaWork | both of my rev. 1 devices worked as soon as they got back from assembly, not perfectly, but they were all quite usable |
| 21:07.43 | MothaWork | I know many people who can't quite say that |
| 21:07.56 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea, this guy knows his math, but he sure seems to be the type that does his engineering in a vacuum |
| 21:08.03 | prpplague | MonMotha: indee |
| 21:08.04 | prpplague | indeed |
| 21:08.08 | MothaWork | ah, that really sucks for those involved with the project |
| 21:08.19 | MothaWork | I try to at least make sure that I'm not doing something that totally screws over the software people |
| 21:12.06 | solar | wonders if he should go check the wiki |
| 21:13.59 | prpplague | solar: no, didn't have time at lunch |
| 21:14.09 | prpplague | solar: it will be when i get home in about an hour |
| 21:21.30 | prpplague | solar: ping |
| 21:22.12 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_PB (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 21:44.17 | ds2 | Hmmm is the text on a SOIC package a good way to find pin 1? |
| 21:44.54 | ds2 | n/m found the bevel |
| 21:53.38 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@163.181.251.103) |
| 21:53.39 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 22:00.35 | *** join/#edev Ian_Daniher (n=it@69.61.230.246) |
| 22:11.02 | prpplague | heads home |
| 22:34.17 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-162-73.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 22:34.23 | prpplague | solar ping |
| 22:35.54 | prpplague | solar wiki gallery updated: http://www.elinux.org/AzulTiburon |
| 22:37.53 | chouimat | prpplague: hi |
| 22:42.35 | prpplague | chouimat hey my fine french canadian friend |
| 22:45.11 | GPSFan | prpplague: what is that? |
| 22:46.46 | prpplague | GPSFan a atmega128 me and solar are doing |
| 22:47.12 | prpplague | GPSFan atmega128 with a ft2232 and bluetooth |
| 22:48.16 | prpplague | GPSFan thoughts? |
| 22:49.31 | GPSFan | prpplague: interesting, I like how your proto fits together & in the case. what is the target audience? |
| 22:52.12 | GPSFan | so you can talk to it as a usb target, or via BT. |
| 22:52.43 | GPSFan | can it be reprogrammed via the usb? |
| 22:55.00 | GPSFan | blue shark probably should be TiburonAzul |
| 22:56.00 | prpplague | yep both usb and bt |
| 22:57.35 | GPSFan | hmm, a solution is search of a problem.. |
| 22:57.59 | GPSFan | what sort of power & power supply range? |
| 22:59.10 | prpplague | daddy dave is fixiing dinner he will be right back |
| 22:59.31 | prpplague | he told me to say that |
| 23:00.59 | prpplague | GPSFan 2.5v to 5.5v and 7v to 12v for input |
| 23:01.01 | GPSFan | indeed, go hand daddy dave a nice cold beer |
| 23:01.09 | prpplague | hehe |
| 23:01.27 | prpplague | GPSFan my wife gets mad when i have the kids do that |
| 23:01.45 | GPSFan | hand you a beer or type on the computer? |
| 23:01.58 | prpplague | beer |
| 23:02.37 | prpplague | GPSFan it'll run on 2xAA |
| 23:03.05 | *** join/#edev flavioribeiro (n=flaviori@200.97.67.66) |
| 23:03.12 | GPSFan | is there an on board reg? or will the atmega run at that supply range all by itself |
| 23:03.52 | GPSFan | hasn't used or investigated atmega stuff. |
| 23:03.56 | prpplague | GPSFan 1 LDO for the 7v to 12v to be bumped down to +5v , and a buckboost to go from 2.5v to +5.5v inputs |
| 23:04.07 | GPSFan | hmmm, nice. |
| 23:04.43 | prpplague | GPSFan so you can power it via usb, wallwart, 2xAA's, li-ion or something else such as solar panel |
| 23:05.07 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: what's your pricepoint for that? |
| 23:05.17 | prpplague | points to solar |
| 23:05.20 | Ian_Daniher | I dig the nice case, the headers, and the protoshield |
| 23:05.21 | GPSFan | what sort of power consumption? |
| 23:05.26 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher i'm just building it |
| 23:05.43 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: ah, that's right, you and solar work for the same co again? |
| 23:05.56 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher naw, this is a personal venture |
| 23:06.02 | Ian_Daniher | ah |
| 23:06.08 | Ian_Daniher | where'd you guys get the case? |
| 23:06.10 | *** join/#edev joe_bleau (n=joe_blea@adsl-69-152-199-213.dsl.fyvlar.swbell.net) |
| 23:06.16 | prpplague | mostly fun, and alot of profit, hehe |
| 23:06.20 | Ian_Daniher | it looks too finished to be rapid proto'd |
| 23:06.24 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher standard pactec |
| 23:07.05 | Ian_Daniher | ah, I've never used anything from pactec :/ |
| 23:07.08 | prpplague | GPSFan i'm figuring about 100mA |
| 23:07.08 | Ian_Daniher | feels green |
| 23:07.25 | GPSFan | k |
| 23:07.50 | prpplague | GPSFan ideas? |
| 23:08.01 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: though you guys are competing against the arduino |
| 23:08.06 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher yea |
| 23:08.11 | Ian_Daniher | for reasons... we don't quite know :P |
| 23:08.17 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher the software for it will be identical to the arduino |
| 23:08.26 | prpplague | same code environment |
| 23:08.28 | Ian_Daniher | the am128 is just an am168 with 4 fewer k flash? |
| 23:08.42 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: join #arduinoide and help us remake the code environment :) |
| 23:09.10 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher not too big on the IDE, i'm rewriting a bunch of the libs so they work under linux |
| 23:09.57 | Ian_Daniher | oh, cool |
| 23:09.59 | Ian_Daniher | what libs? |
| 23:10.09 | Ian_Daniher | (don't already work on linux)? |
| 23:10.42 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher the wiring/process libs are geared towards avr and specifically the atmega168 stuff |
| 23:10.48 | GPSFan | prpplague: as I said, a cool solution is search of a problem. it's a bit too power hungry for use in remote data collection applications, but it's gonna be cheap compared to some of those solutions. |
| 23:10.55 | prpplague | Ian_Daniher rewritting them to fit into a generic OS is the good |
| 23:11.22 | Ian_Daniher | ah, gotcha |
| 23:11.30 | prpplague | GPSFan thats mainly for the bluetooth fully running, could put it it low power mode and drop it down to less than 1mA |
| 23:12.16 | GPSFan | ah, now you are talking, can it bit bang an i2c/mmc/sd card interface? |
| 23:13.02 | prpplague | has i2c controller, and a spi controller so mmc/sd is totally doable |
| 23:13.06 | Ian_Daniher | afk |
| 23:13.11 | prpplague | i was considering adding a microsd slot |
| 23:13.35 | GPSFan | serial port too? |
| 23:14.07 | prpplague | yea there are two, one is for the BT but doesn't have to be used, the other can either be connected to the usb or used for something else |
| 23:26.47 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 23:39.05 | solar | prpplague: any chance is putting the ISP header near the USB so the shield second on the level has some damage protection? |
| 23:41.09 | solar | prpplague: more I've thought about it. I'm pleased with the idea if just a 128 arduino base. |
| 23:41.15 | solar | kinda |
| 23:47.10 | [g2] | solar: have you seen pong on the arduino ? |
| 23:49.47 | [g2] | btw has anybody seen this stuff ? http://www.sics.se/~adam/pt/ |
