| 00:06.25 | *** join/#edev landley (n=landley@cpe-70-116-30-223.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 00:06.25 | *** mode/#edev [+o landley] by ChanServ |
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| 01:37.05 | prpplague | landley greetings |
| 01:43.07 | landley | Hiya. |
| 01:43.10 | landley | What's up? |
| 01:43.22 | landley | So, the eediot got fired. Congratulations. Now what? |
| 01:43.32 | prpplague | landley just trying to de-stressify from the week |
| 01:43.48 | solar | suggests beer |
| 01:44.02 | landley | I realize that congratulating you on the eediot getting fired is like congratulating you on a painful tooth finally being root canaled, but still. |
| 01:44.03 | prpplague | landley now we have to finish up the 8050 and get it out the door |
| 01:44.15 | prpplague | landley hehe indeed |
| 01:44.24 | landley | did they get a new ee, or just decide to _do_without_ as an improvement over that guy? |
| 01:44.30 | prpplague | solar guiness foreign extra stout |
| 01:44.41 | landley | (What finally did him in, anyway. General proponderance of evidence, or was it something specific?) |
| 01:45.00 | g1powermac_PB | ahh, he finally was fired? |
| 01:45.06 | landley | is attempting to use hulu.com from west campus at UT Austin. |
| 01:45.15 | prpplague | landley without at the momment, looks like i'll be doing the last set of fixes and run them by rusty |
| 01:45.15 | landley | Local up/download speed is about 4k/second. |
| 01:45.26 | landley | Trying to view video, not pretty... |
| 01:45.32 | landley | prpplague: woot. |
| 01:45.42 | g1powermac_PB | hasn't been able to keep up on the story |
| 01:45.49 | g1powermac_PB | been doing way too much stuff |
| 01:46.03 | landley | Talking to time warner cable and trying to explain to them about congestion in their routers... not fun. |
| 01:46.15 | prpplague | landley yea rusty came to one of the meetings a couple weeks ago, gave the EE some stuff to do, came back this morning and basically nothing had been done |
| 01:46.16 | g1powermac_PB | landley: ugh, time warner sucks |
| 01:46.17 | landley | Get the tech support guy off script, and he's useless... |
| 01:46.24 | prpplague | landley rusty then asked to see all the schematics |
| 01:46.30 | g1powermac_PB | landley: have had to deal with their tech support a few times |
| 01:46.31 | prpplague | landley thats when he freaked out |
| 01:46.45 | landley | Which "rusty" are we referring to here, by the way? |
| 01:46.52 | landley | Russel was still in australia last I checked... |
| 01:47.04 | MonMotha | prpplague: oh boy do I wish I could show you the schematic for a device we worked on some right as I started at work (no, I didn't make it) |
| 01:47.05 | prpplague | sorry, Mr.Herod, the owner of TinCanTools and AML |
| 01:47.12 | g1powermac_PB | landley: though their 'business class' support was better |
| 01:47.12 | landley | Or possibly Russell, I remember him being emphatic about the number of L's but don't remember what that number was... |
| 01:47.18 | landley | prpplague: ah. |
| 01:47.46 | landley | g1powermac_PB: I had business class before moving to pittsburgh. $95/month for a 3 megabit symmetrical connection with static IP. Not bad. |
| 01:47.54 | prpplague | MonMotha hehe |
| 01:47.56 | solar | prpplague: http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/132/359 my favorite regional stout |
| 01:48.03 | landley | Since coming back, I've been more interested in getting internet through my cell phone. |
| 01:48.07 | prpplague | looks |
| 01:48.07 | g1powermac_PB | landley: yea, we got something like that at the store |
| 01:48.12 | landley | Finally had that working, and then lost the darn bluetooth USB dongle. |
| 01:48.21 | prpplague | solar hehe, one of my favorites |
| 01:48.25 | g1powermac_PB | landley: I just wish we could get a 'normal' cable modem from them |
| 01:48.26 | landley | (The built-in bluetooth on my "it came with linux preintstalled" Inspiron 1505 _does_not_work_. |
| 01:48.35 | g1powermac_PB | landley: one that doesn't have a router built in |
| 01:48.36 | MonMotha | landley: indeed that is fairly good |
| 01:48.37 | landley | I'm not even 100% sure it's there, it could be that the bios is hallucinating it. |
| 01:48.46 | landley | Nobody else has gotten it to work either, according to google... |
| 01:48.55 | g1powermac_PB | landley: its annoying as I can't route stuff through this router so I could do a vpn network |
| 01:48.56 | MonMotha | landley: I'm in FiOS country, but they don't offer "business" class connections (if they did, I'd probably have one) |
| 01:49.10 | landley | g1powermac_PB: I have a "normal" cable modem, but I may have been grandfathered in. :) |
| 01:49.29 | landley | MonMotha: I looked at FIOS and the problem is, it's verizon. |
| 01:49.34 | g1powermac_PB | landley: maybe, but I think it maybe just the local idiots not knowing better |
| 01:49.40 | prpplague | so now, on monday, i have clean up the mess |
| 01:49.42 | landley | If you run bittorrent on their FIOS, they clamp the upstream bandwidth to about 4k/second. |
| 01:49.44 | MonMotha | landley: I've not had problems with them, and they're way better than my alternative (Comcast) |
| 01:49.52 | MonMotha | landley: they don't do that to me |
| 01:50.04 | landley | I experienced this, and it was _not_fun_. (If you wonder why landley.net was dog slow a couple months back, Eric was experimenting with bittorrent.) |
| 01:50.36 | landley | prpplague: but on the bright side, now you get to clean up the mess. |
| 01:50.51 | landley | Rather than having the eediot making more and blocking attempts to deal with the accumulated trash. |
| 01:51.03 | landley | Plus you should have some variant of management support, if only due to lack of options. |
| 01:51.25 | landley | MonMotha: If I had confidence they wouldn't do it to me, I'd look into it. |
| 01:51.32 | landley | The cable modem is getting sad around here. |
| 01:51.49 | landley | Shared connection + 50,000 students (literally)... Not a good combination there. |
| 01:52.21 | ds2 | anyone know off handy why a 74LVC04 inverter would put out 0.9V when powered from 1.8V |
| 01:52.45 | MonMotha | landley: well, even capping my upstream to 4kb/sec on bittorrent would be better than what I had on comcast which was 0kb/sec |
| 01:53.32 | landley | MonMotha: if they detected bittorrent they blocked it completely? |
| 01:53.45 | landley | And it's not that they cap _bittorrent_ at 4k/second upstream, they cap the _entire_connection_. |
| 01:53.51 | landley | Which is kind of sad if you're running a server on it. |
| 01:53.54 | MonMotha | landley: no, they did the RST trick. Basically, if you attempted to upload anything on bittorrent, they nuked that connection. |
| 01:54.08 | MonMotha | well, according to them, you're not supposed to be running servers |
| 01:54.08 | landley | Yeah, that's a reason to drop the service. |
| 01:54.12 | MonMotha | they lblock 80 inbound |
| 01:54.18 | landley | MonMoth: not on the FIOS connection. |
| 01:54.18 | g1powermac_PB | good ole comcastic |
| 01:54.28 | prpplague | solar http://www.ratebeer.com/View-User-1210.htm |
| 01:54.34 | landley | I'll take time warner over comcast. They're not actively suicidal yet. |
| 01:54.49 | MonMotha | landley: they do here |
| 01:54.52 | g1powermac_PB | landley: thats a bit yet |
| 01:54.56 | g1powermac_PB | *big |
| 01:55.01 | MonMotha | landley: they don't offer business fios here |
| 01:55.16 | g1powermac_PB | wishes there was even an option for fios |
| 01:55.39 | landley | prpplague: what's the difference between "score" and "my rating"? |
| 01:55.43 | g1powermac_PB | its mostly dsl and if you're lucky you might have cable |
| 01:56.00 | MonMotha | landley: I got a kick out of the sales rep. I called up and had fios internet quoted (mind you, the premise already had the box installed, so I know it's available). The happily quoted me consumer grade FiOS. |
| 01:56.07 | landley | is relatively happy with T-mobile's $20/month cellular wireless, so far. |
| 01:56.19 | MonMotha | I then inquired about business FiOS. She very promptly informed me that "fios is not available at your location" |
| 01:56.26 | landley | Ok, they handed out garbage DNS entries once and I had to call tech support, but I got somebody with a brain calling after hours. |
| 01:56.31 | landley | Kind of impressive, really. |
| 01:56.41 | ds2 | you are grandfathered in at $20? |
| 01:56.52 | g1powermac_PB | landley: nice |
| 01:56.54 | MonMotha | yea, it's $30 now |
| 01:57.02 | MonMotha | includes unlimited t-mobile hotspot, but I don't care about that |
| 01:57.10 | landley | ds2: no, I got it last week. |
| 01:57.20 | landley | It's technically "$19.99". But that's adding it to the cell phone plan. |
| 01:57.23 | MonMotha | landley: how'd you get it at $20? |
| 01:57.28 | ds2 | Oh the TMO feature |
| 01:57.33 | ds2 | not the dataplan |
| 01:57.41 | ds2 | it used to be $10 to add that feature |
| 01:57.45 | landley | It's the "use your cell phone as a modem" plan. |
| 01:58.02 | landley | This isn't internet to the _phone_, this is internet exported as a bluetooth serial device I can do a ppp session to via wvdial. |
| 01:58.08 | prpplague | hehe you see the deal where someone got $28K cell bill |
| 01:58.14 | landley | prpplague: no? |
| 01:58.28 | landley | My _phone_ hasn't got internet. It can't even pull up the samsung help pages. |
| 01:58.42 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: heh, yea I seen that |
| 01:58.56 | landley | Who got a $28,000 cell phone bill? |
| 01:59.23 | g1powermac_PB | some person who went outside the country and left the data stuff going |
| 01:59.52 | prpplague | landley http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22262994/ |
| 01:59.59 | prpplague | landley thats one, let me get the other url |
| 02:00.35 | prpplague | landley http://www.wftv.com/money/17390103/detail.html?rss=orlc&psp=irresistible |
| 02:01.51 | landley | I made darn sure I got a flat rate on internet usage. |
| 02:01.59 | landley | I'm on an "all you can eat" internet plan. |
| 02:02.22 | prpplague | landley be careful, that doesn't apply outside the US |
| 02:03.43 | ds2 | and TMO has not done anything if you use a lot (so far) |
| 02:03.47 | prpplague | landley the difference between the score and rating, is the score is based on everyones rating |
| 02:03.55 | prpplague | landley "my rating" is just what i rated it |
| 02:04.04 | landley | prpplague: I don't _go_ outside the US, except to OLS where my phone's never worked before and I'd expect insane roaming charges anyway. |
| 02:04.27 | prpplague | landley ahh thats right, i remember about you getting your passport |
| 02:04.28 | prpplague | hehe |
| 02:04.29 | landley | ds2: I look at my options. T-mobile was the only one who actually seemed to _want_ my business. |
| 02:04.58 | landley | I was a sprint customer for 10 years, but at least the last 5 were through sheer inertia. |
| 02:05.14 | prpplague | landley my passport ran out of pages and i had to have extras added |
| 02:05.32 | ds2 | landley: yep, that's my experience too |
| 02:05.36 | ds2 | bbl |
| 02:06.05 | prpplague | landley heard anything about the leapfrog stuff with regards to the busybox/gpl stuff |
| 02:06.16 | landley | prpplague: nope. |
| 02:06.35 | landley | But then the only reason I heard about http://www.terekhov.de/DEFAULT-JUDGMENT.pdf was my google vanity alert brought it up. |
| 02:06.48 | landley | The SFLC doesn't really tell me much unless they need me to do paperwork. |
| 02:07.07 | landley | (Then again, I did seek them out because I _wanted_ fire and forget GPL enforcement, so I can't really complain.) |
| 02:07.14 | landley | They'd probably tell me more if I asked... |
| 02:07.28 | landley | Again, but the #conservancy channel during business hours. |
| 02:07.32 | landley | Or email 'em... |
| 02:08.12 | prpplague | yea, well, they don't seem to be too friendly towards me, so i've stop communicating them |
| 02:08.45 | landley | They're not really that friendly towards anyone. |
| 02:09.03 | landley | The secret to dealing with them is to imagine that each one of them has an inbox with about 300 pieces of paper in it each morning. |
| 02:09.06 | landley | They're perpetually swamped. |
| 02:09.19 | landley | Follow-up poking is kind of essential... |
| 02:11.08 | prpplague | yea, i was told basically since i wasn't party to the complaint, they really didn't need to keep me updated |
| 02:11.58 | landley | Ok, so the msnbc article boils down to "canada is nuts"... |
| 02:12.42 | landley | And the wftv article boils down to "using a US phone in canada is also nuts". |
| 02:12.51 | prpplague | landley interesting, i did not see any report of this |
| 02:12.57 | prpplague | landley yea |
| 02:12.59 | landley | Whereas on sprint, my phone simply got no signal until I crossed the border back. |
| 02:13.02 | landley | So not a big change there. |
| 02:13.29 | landley | prpplague: it showed up on my google alert vanity search this morning. It's fairly recent, and largely a non-event from what I can tell? |
| 02:13.31 | landley | Dunno. |
| 02:13.38 | landley | You'd have to ask the lawyers. :) |
| 02:13.51 | landley | Basically, they filed paperwork and the other side didn't show up in court. |
| 02:14.29 | prpplague | that is pretty surprising |
| 02:16.00 | prpplague | landley it seems alot of the companies are using a new technique for GPL compliance avoidance |
| 02:16.44 | prpplague | landley basically they don't tell anyone they use linux, and when someone finds out, they say they are "working" on getting the software cleared by their legal department for release |
| 02:17.13 | landley | prpplague: not surprising at all. |
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| 02:17.37 | landley | Embedded companies have been failing ot mention when they use Linux for a while, although some of 'em do it as a competitive advantage thing. |
| 02:17.41 | prpplague | landley we had some debate here the other day as to when the obligation starts for releasing source |
| 02:17.49 | landley | (Nah, nobody uses Linux. All you competitors should pay a per-copy license royalty just like everybody else does...) |
| 02:17.59 | landley | prpplague: when you ship. |
| 02:18.18 | landley | Ship == distribute. There's no delay clause in the license. |
| 02:18.41 | prpplague | thats what i said, but alot of folks feel that the company doesn't have to have it available immediately when they ship |
| 02:18.55 | landley | And if you're commercial you can't rely on 3C, you either need to bundle the source with it or bundle an offer to provide source with it. |
| 02:19.30 | landley | That's what the letter of the license says if somebody wants to make a big deal out of it. |
| 02:19.50 | landley | prpplague: they need an _offer_ to provide it when they ship. |
| 02:20.12 | prpplague | yea |
| 02:20.54 | landley | That doesn't necessarily mean the source has to be ready. It may take a while for somebody to contact 'em, and then there may be a reasonanble delay for them to _provide_ the source while they get it ready to honor the offer. |
| 02:20.56 | prpplague | i've still not heard one word from leapfrog |
| 02:21.11 | landley | But if they didn't _make_ an offer, _WHEN_THEY_SHIPPED_, how can they say they're in compliance? |
| 02:21.30 | prpplague | landley see thats where i disagree |
| 02:21.33 | landley | It's a bit like the BSD documentation clause. If you go with GPLv2 clause 3B, you have a similar notification obligation. |
| 02:21.41 | prpplague | landley if it ships it shoudl be available |
| 02:21.43 | landley | (3C, less so, and 3A is another matter entirely.) |
| 02:22.03 | landley | prpplague: should, yes. What you can legally get away with, that's fuzzier. |
| 02:22.09 | prpplague | indeed |
| 02:22.21 | landley | But shipping without any acknowledgement that Linux is there, or any hint of how to get the source? |
| 02:22.29 | landley | Bzzzt. Thanks for playing, here's a cease and desist. |
| 02:22.35 | prpplague | yea |
| 02:22.49 | prpplague | we found a doc on the leapfrog site burried |
| 02:23.10 | landley | To me, an offer is good enough and not having actual source available for... oh, 2-3 months even you might be able to justify depending on circumstances and how polite you are. |
| 02:23.14 | prpplague | lists some stuff thats covered under GPL, busybox wasn't listed, and all the urls are dead |
| 02:23.38 | landley | But if you don't respond promptly to being contacted with "yes, we acknowledge our responsibility and are working on it, here's an estimate of when we'll have it available"... |
| 02:23.55 | landley | That's the minimum to _my_ mind. YMMV, ask your lawyer. |
| 02:24.19 | landley | prpplague: so on busybox, we can still nail 'em. |
| 02:24.37 | prpplague | hehe yea, well, since i don't have anything they are using, i have no claim |
| 02:24.47 | landley | Pointing at dead URLs doesn't satisfy their feduciary responsibility thingy. |
| 02:25.00 | landley | That said, poking them and having them clean it up out of court is fine with me. |
| 02:25.06 | landley | Poking them and being ignored, it's lawyer time. |
| 02:25.43 | prpplague | http://www.leapfrog.com/etc/medialib/leapfrog/legal.Par.14642.File.dat/Additional%20Third%20Party%20Notices%20for%20LF%20Connect%20Application%20.pdf |
| 02:28.32 | prpplague | oh, and i gather that the arm processor used in the Didj isn't part of the current kernel tree |
| 02:32.31 | prpplague | HcE did solar talk you into joining the channel? |
| 02:49.01 | prpplague | i really think that there needs to be some aspect of the GPL that allows someone who has purchased a device using GPL the right to sue for compliancy |
| 02:49.33 | landley | Unfortunately that's not the GPL, that's copyright law. |
| 02:49.36 | landley | Question of standing. |
| 02:50.01 | landley | Erik and I managed to delegate our standing to the SFLC, and they take complaints from the field and collate 'em so we don't have to. |
| 02:50.05 | landley | That's about the best we can do. |
| 02:50.29 | prpplague | landley yea |
| 02:50.54 | prpplague | landley know any windowsCE developers? |
| 02:51.30 | landley | prpplague: nope. Why do you ask? |
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| 03:09.31 | prpplague | landley we need to find one |
| 03:09.44 | prpplague | landley someone to oversee getting windowsce up on the 8050 |
| 03:10.51 | landley | Why? |
| 03:12.12 | landley | I thought it ran Linux? |
| 03:12.57 | solar | if you are looking to contract windowsCE/WM devs I can put you in touch with kurt lieber if you want. He wanted to hire me but I had to turn him down. Anyway he manages a whole team of those guys. I'm sure he can kick some sidework if you tell him "solar says or or I'll cut his rack off" |
| 03:13.07 | solar | linkenin might even have it |
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| 03:13.18 | shaz | hi guys |
| 03:13.34 | solar | prpplague: he handles all the target stores |
| 03:15.32 | prpplague | solar ahh interesting |
| 03:16.06 | prpplague | landley managment seems to think we need to office the M8000 and M8050 with windows CE |
| 03:16.34 | prpplague | landley apparently, our sales department doesn't communicate well with linux developers :( |
| 03:17.31 | landley | sigh. |
| 03:17.37 | landley | Can you plead resource constraints? :) |
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| 03:26.59 | solar | does that mean we should stop? |
| 03:31.14 | *** join/#edev Ian_Daniher_ (n=it@69.61.230.246) |
| 03:33.58 | prpplague | solar nope, we'll still be doing linux as primary |
| 03:34.15 | prpplague | landley hehe nope |
| 03:34.31 | prpplague | landley what we need is a new plan for selling the capabilities of a linux based device |
| 03:40.44 | solar | cool. cuz I just hit the 400 pkgs built mark |
| 03:40.52 | prpplague | hehe |
| 03:41.27 | prpplague | solar yea, we had some turn over in sales, and all of the new sales people have no clue about what linux is |
| 03:45.24 | solar | that happened with us as well. And somehow we are still a +75% linux shop |
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| 03:50.58 | prpplague | solar yea we've always been 100% linux |
| 03:51.31 | landley | It may have something to do with the fact that WinCE doesn't actually WoRK. |
| 03:51.32 | prpplague | solar but what we are having to deal with right now is that alot of the ISV's are getting cheap windowsCE pda's and doing their dev on that |
| 03:51.54 | landley | Ah, subsidized hardware. |
| 03:53.12 | prpplague | landley i know its all marketing, but they believe they need it |
| 03:53.16 | prpplague | landley yea |
| 03:54.02 | prpplague | landley we need to figure out a way to convince more ISV's that they don't have to use wince, and that they don't have to be afraid of programming under linux |
| 03:54.17 | solar | prpplague: being that you are a vendor. And it's a touchscreen device. I think you will have to go down both routes (like it or not) |
| 03:54.46 | prpplague | solar yea |
| 03:54.52 | solar | the ones with linux you should be able to offer to your clients at a cheaper price (cuz you don't have to guy the BS from MS) |
| 03:55.36 | prpplague | solar surprisingly enough the base wince stuff isn't that expensive, its when you start adding components to wince that the costs rise |
| 03:55.44 | prpplague | solar the thing is |
| 03:56.03 | prpplague | solar about 90% of the ISV's are doing very very very simply tcp/ip socket stuff |
| 03:56.15 | prpplague | solar they are just using the wince widgets to do the GUI |
| 03:58.14 | prpplague | if we had some folks available that would do userland apps for these folks, i think we'd sell alot more units |
| 04:02.33 | MonMotha | prpplague: one thing I have found is that GUI stuff on Linux can suck pretty badly for the developer if you want "not ugly" and "free as in beer" |
| 04:02.47 | prpplague | MonMotha indeed |
| 04:03.05 | MonMotha | FLTK is free (as in beer) and easy to use, but it's not the most attractive thing. GTK is pretty, but it's a mess. Qt is pretty and easy to use, but it costs $$$. |
| 04:03.17 | MonMotha | well, unless you're willing to GPL your app |
| 04:03.21 | MonMotha | in which case Qt is free |
| 04:03.27 | prpplague | what most of these folks want is a simple way to do state machine style data collection |
| 04:03.43 | prpplague | for example |
| 04:04.10 | MonMotha | I'm surprised there hasn't been an opensource project to come up with a GOOD GUI toolkit that is clean, easy to use, and looks pretty, and is free as in speech and beer (i.e. LGPL) |
| 04:05.11 | prpplague | customer: i want a screen that will only accept a barcode scan data, when the data is entered it opens a tcp/ip socket to the server, passes the data and waits for a response, the response will be the cost and location, if total stock is too low, the socket will send a flag so that the screen asks if you want to order more |
| 04:06.30 | MonMotha | prpplague: well, that's pretty much just "business logic" combined with a really simple GUI |
| 04:06.43 | MonMotha | and at the screen res you usually seem to deal with, "pretty" doesn't usually come in to play |
| 04:07.03 | prpplague | MonMotha yea the problem is, these ISV's don't want to learn a bunch about linux or wince for that matter |
| 04:07.22 | prpplague | MonMotha they want to be able to write up a quick app to interface to the accounting package they are selling |
| 04:07.35 | MonMotha | prpplague: well, it shouldn't be too hard to come up with a base system that can easily have simple apps written on it |
| 04:07.41 | MonMotha | heck, doesn't FLTK have LUA bindings? |
| 04:08.35 | MonMotha | just make an app that provides an "onscan" hook, basic TCP/IP stuff, and sets up the screen to draw some basic FLTK widgets, export all that to LUA, and let your customers code away at their "business logic" |
| 04:08.46 | solar | watched a few DIY vids on SMT sodering chips and it looks pretty easy |
| 04:09.23 | MonMotha | solar: anything with leads and >=0.65mm pitch is quite doable |
| 04:09.40 | MonMotha | 0.5mm pitch is tough, but entirely doable. I'm just slower than with 0.65 and larger |
| 04:09.52 | MonMotha | leadless can be tricky, of course, but there are people who can do QFNs and DFNs |
| 04:10.00 | prpplague | MonMotha yea, the big key is i don't do gui stuff very well |
| 04:10.08 | MonMotha | prpplague: nor do I |
| 04:10.09 | prpplague | MonMotha given time i can get it done |
| 04:10.10 | solar | MonMotha: you have to do a fair bit of it for your job? |
| 04:10.29 | MonMotha | solar: in addition to being the hardware engineer, I'm one of the solder techs |
| 04:10.34 | prpplague | needs to finish writting up his recommendations this weekend |
| 04:11.08 | MonMotha | we have another guy who is pretty good, too. He's probably better at desoldering than me (I tend to just cut the chip off the board, since usually the PCB is more important for me than the chip), but I seem to be better at soldering tight-pitch stuff down. |
| 04:11.21 | prpplague | board bringup usually requires some tweaking of resistor values and sometime whitewire fixes |
| 04:11.36 | MonMotha | indeed |
| 04:11.37 | solar | MonMotha: got a website on any of the stuff you worked on (blog)? |
| 04:11.43 | landley | I used to do GUI stuff fairly well. |
| 04:11.55 | MonMotha | ever tried to tack a greenwire to a 0.5mm QFP pin? THAT requires some talent (and luck) |
| 04:11.56 | landley | It' swas mostly java awt 1.1 with the lightweight component stuff. Wrote my own toolkit. |
| 04:12.02 | MonMotha | solar: I do not. |
| 04:12.04 | prpplague | solar thats where hardware differs from most software dev like for OSS |
| 04:12.06 | landley | But that was 1998... |
| 04:12.33 | solar | prpplague: how so? |
| 04:12.45 | prpplague | solar most business still keep their hardware work closely guarded |
| 04:13.11 | MonMotha | solar: https://gigapet.monmotha.net/~monmotha/kingroland.jpg |
| 04:13.18 | MonMotha | I did solder that whole thing together, though |
| 04:13.26 | solar | oh yeah. I hope that changes in the future. http://dam.mellis.org/ pretty ok blog. |
| 04:13.39 | MonMotha | solar: most difficult component on there was the crystal. It's a leadless part |
| 04:13.48 | MonMotha | there's some tricks for large pitch leadless like that, though |
| 04:14.19 | prpplague | MonMotha interesting board |
| 04:14.49 | MonMotha | prpplague: indeed. It's a very purpose specific board. |
| 04:15.20 | MonMotha | a lot of the connectors on there are not used for what you might at first thing they are used for given their usage in the PC world |
| 04:16.10 | MonMotha | the RJ45s aren't Ethernet, the 40-pin headers aren't IDE, and the mini-DINs aren't s-video or PS/2. |
| 04:16.26 | prpplague | the minidins are uarts? |
| 04:16.32 | MonMotha | prpplague: nope |
| 04:16.47 | MonMotha | prpplague: the mini-DINs connect directly to the two controller ports on a playstation |
| 04:17.15 | prpplague | ahh |
| 04:17.29 | prpplague | twinkle and cabinet? hehe |
| 04:17.47 | MonMotha | like I said, VERY purpose specific board |
| 04:17.58 | MonMotha | unless you own a beatmaniaIIDX machine, you have no use for that board |
| 04:18.14 | prpplague | the atmel running at 3.3v and the i/o at 5v? |
| 04:18.39 | MonMotha | the uC runs at 5V, actually |
| 04:18.53 | MonMotha | the 74VHC244 is used as a level translator |
| 04:19.25 | MonMotha | the 74VHCT244 is used only for its tri-state function to do some bus arbitration, which partially works :) |
| 04:19.38 | prpplague | ahh |
| 04:19.39 | MonMotha | if I redid that, I'd probably have used a CPLD for all that and ran everything at 3.3V |
| 04:19.52 | prpplague | you guys do that as a panelized board? |
| 04:19.57 | prpplague | or just singles? |
| 04:20.03 | MonMotha | that was my board |
| 04:20.06 | MonMotha | I didn't do that for work |
| 04:20.21 | MonMotha | if you check the date on the side, it actually predates me graduating college by more than a year |
| 04:20.29 | MonMotha | er just a few months, I guess |
| 04:20.35 | MonMotha | still, not done for work |
| 04:20.41 | MonMotha | and it was panelized 3-up |
| 04:20.56 | MonMotha | bought on the 4PCB $33/ea student deal, and I managed to sneak it in without paying the panelization fee |
| 04:21.10 | MonMotha | so that PCB was about $15 in qty. 3 (DIRT CHEAP!) |
| 04:21.15 | prpplague | ahh did you hand solder it or got with pnp |
| 04:21.24 | MonMotha | I hand soldered everything |
| 04:21.31 | MonMotha | no stencils, no paste, no reflow |
| 04:21.39 | MonMotha | it's double sided, too (some passives on the bottom) |
| 04:21.46 | prpplague | ahh |
| 04:22.21 | prpplague | yea i was looking, those resistors over on the bottom left near the quad LED would be a problem doing panelized pnp |
| 04:22.42 | MonMotha | a lot of the stuff on there would be a problem for production |
| 04:23.04 | MonMotha | you'll also notice some whitewiring over near those quad LED resistors :) |
| 04:23.17 | prpplague | yea i was wondering about that |
| 04:23.29 | MonMotha | I got the pinout for the quad LED itself wrong |
| 04:23.41 | prpplague | hehe |
| 04:23.52 | prpplague | it happens |
| 04:23.59 | prpplague | ok folks, got a ton of dev to do tomorrow so i'm hitting the hay |
| 04:24.00 | MonMotha | indeed |
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| 07:10.19 | HcE | prpplague_zzz: nope, I joined by myself on Tue Aug 12 14:28:33 2008 |
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| 15:19.45 | prpplague^2 | HcE nice to have around! |
| 15:23.28 | g1powermac_PB | heya prpplague |
| 15:23.50 | prpplague | hey |
| 15:24.05 | g1powermac_PB | anything interesting going on? |
| 15:24.48 | prpplague | just checking the weather |
| 15:24.59 | prpplague | i have to run the wife to the mall to pick up a few things |
| 15:25.11 | prpplague | then i have to play with the didi for a little bit |
| 15:25.18 | g1powermac_PB | fun, fun |
| 15:25.25 | g1powermac_PB | getting some good hurricane action? |
| 15:27.48 | prpplague | looks like it shifted, the majority of it is going towards my home town which is about 120 miles from where i live |
| 15:28.10 | g1powermac_PB | ahh |
| 15:28.17 | prpplague | gotta do some icepick hacking later today too |
| 15:28.26 | g1powermac_PB | people up here are nuts |
| 15:28.38 | g1powermac_PB | they're prepping for the end of the world it seems |
| 15:28.50 | prpplague | then i have to do some work on the tiburon board |
| 15:29.06 | prpplague | probably going to be late tonight before i get some sleep |
| 15:29.16 | g1powermac_PB | we're hundreds of miles away from this hurricane, yet the stores are as busy as if we were to get a major snow storm |
| 15:29.43 | prpplague | hehe indeed |
| 15:29.51 | prpplague | i remember the snow storms there in KY |
| 15:30.02 | prpplague | people will treat it like the end of the earth there |
| 15:30.12 | g1powermac_PB | heh, yea, the whole 1" snow storm is the end of the world :-) |
| 15:30.23 | chouimat | bah snow |
| 15:30.43 | g1powermac_PB | I can't imagine what would happen if we were to get a couple of feet |
| 15:30.55 | g1powermac_PB | like we would get back in NJ every so often |
| 15:31.03 | chouimat | g1powermac_PB: the whole state closed? |
| 15:31.21 | chouimat | and lot of dead peoples :) |
| 15:31.26 | g1powermac_PB | chouimat: I think there would be riots before the storm |
| 15:31.36 | g1powermac_PB | people storming the grocery stores |
| 15:32.30 | g1powermac_PB | then when it finally hits, the state would be shut down for weeks |
| 15:33.08 | g1powermac_PB | reminds me of the big ice storm that hit here right before we moved |
| 15:33.20 | g1powermac_PB | power was out across the state for weeks after |
| 15:34.26 | g1powermac_PB | that was a pretty bad winter though, back in NJ we got three feet of snow the day before we moved. . . |
| 15:35.16 | g1powermac_PB | then we had massive rains right after we moved which from what I've heard caused massive flooding back in NJ from the rain and melting snow |
| 15:35.32 | chouimat | hmmmm maybe it time to clean this desk I can find my memory stick duo pro |
| 15:50.48 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB plus i have to get mentally geared up to pull this 8050 project from the flames |
| 15:52.22 | chouimat | gives prpplague some abesto gloves :) |
| 15:52.29 | prpplague | hehe cute |
| 15:52.58 | prpplague | i used to know everyone on #edev personally, lots and lots new folks in the last few months |
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| 16:11.21 | solar | morn |
| 16:12.17 | prpplague | solar greetings |
| 16:14.14 | solar | so first weekend question is... did you find anymore time to 128+shield protoplay? |
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| 16:20.03 | prpplague | solar scheduled for this afternoon |
| 16:21.00 | prpplague | solar do some more layout stuff |
| 16:25.08 | solar | cool. I'm still pecking away at whatever I think could be included in your list of pkgs. |
| 16:34.46 | g1powermac | prpplague, ahh fun |
| 16:34.54 | g1powermac | prpplague, so I heard the EE was finally fired, ehh? |
| 16:44.19 | g1powermac | nice, my pup finally has gotten the sit thing down |
| 16:44.40 | g1powermac | now if I can just stop the biting. . .it ain't easy when they're teething |
| 16:48.09 | solar | just him a peice of rawhide. That will keep him busy and quite happy. |
| 16:59.14 | g1powermac | solar, not so easy, I got enough rawhide and bones around to keep 20 dogs busily chewing |
| 16:59.33 | g1powermac | this one just loves to bite your hands and any other extremity |
| 17:05.08 | solar | ahh. Then might I suggest going to your local farm and seed supply or MegaStore and picking up some leather gloves |
| 17:05.20 | g1powermac | got those too |
| 17:05.26 | g1powermac | he eats them :-) |
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| 17:05.55 | solar | deal with it :p |
| 17:06.25 | g1powermac | thats what we've been doing for the most part :-) |
| 17:06.31 | solar | having a puppy around might be a little hard when you get back from your surgery |
| 17:06.41 | solar | when did that get rescheduled for? |
| 17:06.42 | g1powermac | yea, I know |
| 17:06.49 | g1powermac | still not scheduled yet |
| 17:07.01 | g1powermac | have I mentioned that I really hate the medical profession? |
| 17:07.02 | solar | you were having liver/kidney problems? |
| 17:07.16 | g1powermac | no, just gallbladder issues |
| 17:07.28 | g1powermac | so it isn't an emergency per se |
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| 19:21.34 | solar | prpplague: I dont see CONFIG_SOUND enabled in either of your kernel .configs |
| 19:22.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague, solar: Greetings |
| 19:24.43 | solar | morn |
| 19:25.37 | RobotGuy | I thought my internet was out, but I got an extension again. |
| 20:33.25 | MonMotha | g1powermac: a friend of mine has found that a rather effective measure for most dogs to deter biting is to just shove your hand down their throat when they try to do it. They don't like that. |
| 20:33.33 | prpplague | solar yea, i've had that turned off right now for testing |
| 20:33.43 | prpplague | solar we are using the wolfson wm8750 |
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| 21:06.06 | prpplague | solar: can you resend the url? |
| 21:13.23 | solar | http://tinderbox.dev.gentoo.org/embedded/arm-softfloat-linux-gnueabi/All/ (see any pkgs that come to mind that should be in this repo) ? |
| 21:49.53 | prpplague | ugh, jtag is a proper 4 letter word |
| 21:51.24 | roxfan | just like jpeg |
| 22:42.43 | solar | what march=armv4t -mtune=arm9tdmi flags do you use on the 8050 ? |
| 22:55.10 | prpplague | solar: i'd have to look, i don't generally mess with the defaults in the build, you could check the poky repo for the openmoko build |
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| 23:45.26 | HcE | prpplague: sure, I joined most of the "embedded" channels I think |
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| 23:51.16 | sunrunner20 | iirc #electronics is badly run |
| 23:51.44 | prpplague | very badly run |
| 23:52.07 | sunrunner20 | eg run by a dip-#(@&$* |
| 23:52.45 | sunrunner20 | it was ok untill the polital stuff stopped being funny |
| 23:52.47 | prpplague | HcE: how well has edev worked out as far as info and embedded dev conversation? |
| 23:52.52 | sunrunner20 | which was ~2 weeks |
| 23:53.05 | sunrunner20 | then I got banned lol |
| 23:53.34 | HcE | prpplague: dunno, I'd like to discuss a fix in uClibc if anybody are awake |
| 23:53.42 | HcE | uclibc.org mail server seems to be down |
| 23:54.02 | HcE | I discovered this week that prctl function in uClibc is broken |
| 23:54.07 | HcE | only working by accident |
| 23:54.32 | prpplague | sjhill does alot of the uclibc maintaince as far as in this channel |
| 23:54.59 | prpplague | although i am on the maintaners list, i tend to stick with lowlevel hardware issues |
| 23:55.49 | HcE | I maintain AVR32 port, that is why I discovered the prctl problem |
| 23:55.56 | prpplague | ahh |
| 23:56.06 | MonMotha | heh, prpplague, hardware...hah |
| 23:56.24 | MonMotha | :) |
| 23:56.27 | prpplague | hehe |
| 23:57.01 | HcE | prpplague: http://www.atmel.no/~hcegtvedt/patches/0001-Fix-varargs-in-prctl-syscall.patch <-- if you are interessted in seeing what it is about |
| 23:57.37 | prpplague | looks |
| 23:58.41 | HcE | somebody said it would break DOMULTI option, I have not looked into that yet |
| 23:59.17 | prpplague | HcE: hmm, i can run it by a few folks and see what we can do |
| 23:59.33 | prpplague | i can run a test on monday |
| 23:59.36 | HcE | prpplague: ideally test it on other hardware than AVR32 ;) |
| 23:59.41 | prpplague | hehe |
| 23:59.45 | HcE | prpplague: are you on uclibc mailing list? |
