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| 01:17.47 | *** topic/#edev is a channel for the discussion of hacking small consumer electronic devices, mostly ARM based; Hammer Development boards as well as Nail Boards are now available at http://www.tincantools.com/ |
| 02:10.00 | chouimat | this look interesting ... http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2206547909.html |
| 02:14.52 | roxfan2 | zilog is still alive eh? |
| 02:15.14 | chouimat | look like it |
| 02:15.18 | roxfan2 | hmm, armv4t in 2008? |
| 02:15.54 | chouimat | roxfan2: lpc2000 series are arm7tdmi so I guess it make senses for certain type of application |
| 02:17.27 | roxfan2 | hmm didn't know they still make new arm7s |
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| 02:23.37 | MonMotha | ARM7 is still very popular |
| 02:24.07 | MonMotha | I'd argue that most of the integrated flash/ram/processor ARM micros out there without an external bus interface (which is a lot of them) are ARM7 |
| 02:24.12 | MonMotha | usually ARM7TDMI |
| 02:24.47 | MonMotha | most of the ARM9s are larger devices intended for use with largeish external memories |
| 02:27.09 | chouimat | roxfan2: : I used a LPC2xxx (ARM7) (don't remember the model) to build a usb CAN adapter for linux/freebsd ... can controller on the chip,USB, 42K of RAM and 512K of flash |
| 02:28.23 | roxfan2 | not too bad i guess |
| 02:28.30 | roxfan2 | how much does such a chip cost? |
| 02:29.08 | chouimat | not much |
| 02:30.23 | MonMotha | roxfan2: usually in the $10 range in small quantity, down to about $5-6 in medium quantity (~1000-10000) |
| 02:30.34 | roxfan2 | i see |
| 02:30.40 | MonMotha | some of the bigguns hit $12-15 in 1-100 qty |
| 02:30.55 | chouimat | MonMotha: which is very good :) |
| 02:31.30 | MonMotha | chouimat: for what you get, yes, that's a good price |
| 02:31.46 | MonMotha | I have noted that most of those "big" ARM7TDMI parts are a little quirky |
| 02:31.59 | chouimat | I paid around 130CAD for the olymex LPC-P2148 board |
| 02:32.01 | MonMotha | but I think that happens on all larger micros |
| 02:32.10 | MonMotha | chouimat: well, I'm talking bare part here, no board |
| 02:32.47 | chouimat | MonMotha: I know ... I was doing the firmware ... not the actual device so 130 for prototyping is good |
| 02:33.22 | MonMotha | oh, indeed |
| 02:33.32 | MonMotha | we use the SAM7X series at work |
| 02:33.39 | MonMotha | works fine, but it has a few quirks |
| 02:34.04 | MonMotha | SPI controller is a bit weird when used in PIO mode (seems to work in DMA mode if you disable the stupid hardware chip select stuff), and their reset controller is just dumb |
| 02:34.07 | chouimat | MonMotha: I use the marvell orion and the kirkwood at work ... and I love the kirkwood at 1.2GHz :) |
| 02:34.17 | MonMotha | I'm told the LPC stuff also has some odd SPI issues |
| 02:34.27 | MonMotha | (why it's so hard to make a SPI controller is beyond me) |
| 02:34.32 | chouimat | MonMotha: I don't want to remember that ;) |
| 02:34.40 | MonMotha | we have a Marvell rep who tries to sell us stuff. Haven't had an application yet |
| 02:35.00 | ds2 | shift registers are below the level of chip designers ;) |
| 02:35.35 | chouimat | hehe |
| 02:36.01 | MonMotha | ds2: apparently. I think I could fit a SPI controller that's more functional than Atmel's (well, maybe no DMA stuff, but better otherwise) onto a XC9572XL, perhaps even a 9536 |
| 02:36.20 | MonMotha | it's a friggin counter, a shift register or two (depending on how you set things up), and some glue logic |
| 02:38.21 | chouimat | I just hope there reason is not the same as one of the optional part of the product we sell ... CEO seeing the proof of concept (fully functional but UGLY) : this is amazing!!! we go in production with this tomorrow!!! |
| 02:38.54 | MonMotha | chouimat: yes, that is the problem with proof of concepts |
| 02:39.03 | MonMotha | it may work, but it's an unmaintainable mess |
| 02:39.08 | MonMotha | "ship it!" |
| 02:39.12 | chouimat | yup |
| 02:39.32 | chouimat | at least we didn't put stub in it ;) |
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| 07:21.55 | methril | yo |
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| 07:43.57 | [AD]Turbo | yo |
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| 11:59.04 | roxfan | http://openpandora.org/ preorders open |
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| 12:07.25 | HcE | roxfan: spec info? |
| 12:07.48 | roxfan | omap3 iirc |
| 12:08.26 | roxfan | 600MHz OMAP3530 |
| 12:08.59 | roxfan | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora_(console)#Specifications |
| 12:15.38 | HcE | okay, heavy |
| 12:15.44 | HcE | a bit similar to the Nokia phone then |
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| 13:39.34 | MothaWork | hum, anyone messed with libertas much? |
| 13:45.50 | kgilmer | MothaWork, one of the bug labs guys is working with libertas currently |
| 13:45.57 | kgilmer | he's not in the office yet though today |
| 13:49.19 | MothaWork | kgilmer: I'd be curious to hear how crazy he thinks it would be to cram everything needed to talk to it via GSPI or SDIO into 100-150kB |
| 13:49.23 | MothaWork | so driver + firmware |
| 13:49.45 | MothaWork | the Linux driver x86 binary is >300k |
| 13:49.59 | MothaWork | and I have no idea if that uses a bunch of the wifi platform or not |
| 13:51.05 | kgilmer | he's working on GSPI, but I can't tell you the size. He's angelr on #buglabs, I'm sure he'd be happy talk when he gets in... |
| 13:51.31 | MothaWork | ok |
| 13:51.37 | MothaWork | thanks |
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| 14:08.49 | MothaWork | prpplague: good morning |
| 14:09.03 | prpplague | -good |
| 14:09.13 | prpplague | MothaWork: hey |
| 14:09.18 | prpplague | MothaWork: whats cookin? |
| 14:09.44 | g1powermac_PB | morning prpplague |
| 14:09.44 | chouimat|work | good morning |
| 14:10.15 | prpplague | ~lart chouimat|work |
| 14:10.15 | purl | installs a bad bootloader on chouimat|work and turns chouimat|work into a brick |
| 14:10.22 | prpplague | chouimat|work: drop the "good" part |
| 14:10.33 | solar | bad already? |
| 14:10.33 | chouimat|work | prpplague: hehe |
| 14:10.58 | prpplague | solar: allergy/sinus headache |
| 14:12.36 | prpplague | tries to decide where to put this last bit of code |
| 14:13.07 | MothaWork | prpplague: not much |
| 14:13.14 | MothaWork | prpplague: still working on this wifi thing |
| 14:13.33 | MothaWork | prpplague: do you think it's nuts to attempt to cram a libertas SDIO driver, the firmware, and SDIO bit-bang code into about 150kB? |
| 14:14.14 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea, especially since the firmware for the libertas chipset is going to be bigger than 150k |
| 14:14.21 | MothaWork | prpplague: I figured |
| 14:14.31 | MothaWork | what's the smallest you could think that could be made? |
| 14:15.00 | prpplague | MothaWork: best guess would be around 384k |
| 14:15.07 | MothaWork | ok |
| 14:15.21 | adyer | MothaWork: you could always copy the firmware for libertas from something cheap like a serial flash. it shouldn;t change too often |
| 14:15.29 | MothaWork | adyer: oh, indeed |
| 14:15.33 | MothaWork | that's certainly an option |
| 14:15.47 | MothaWork | adyer: just trying to determine if I can cram everything I need into flash at all |
| 14:16.38 | MothaWork | I need wifi driver/SDIO bitbang (or GSPI stuff), LWIP, Ethernet MAC driver, USB device stack, 802.15.4 MAC, and a proprietary network stack all on a chip that maxes at 512k |
| 14:16.47 | MothaWork | I'm not sure that's possible on just flash, let alone RAM |
| 14:17.15 | MothaWork | also, http://www.embeddedworks.net/wlan/oem_sdio_80211g.html |
| 14:17.30 | MothaWork | assuming those are actually available in the volumes they indicate, those might be very useful |
| 14:17.39 | MothaWork | I know people have been clamoring for things like that for a while in low volume |
| 14:18.03 | adyer | MothaWork: that's a Wi2Wi part, I had one of those demo boards for a while |
| 14:18.25 | MothaWork | oh, those are just wi2wi? |
| 14:18.32 | MothaWork | I was under the impression those were more expensive |
| 14:18.46 | adyer | MothaWork: picture looks identical to the demo board I had |
| 14:18.57 | MothaWork | ah |
| 14:19.15 | MothaWork | know of any othe rplaces that will sell them in dozen quantity? |
| 14:20.26 | adyer | MothaWork: never got that far - wanted to use SDIO but its broken on i.mxl, they wanted $$ for driver devel for gspi |
| 14:20.48 | MothaWork | adyer: I figured |
| 14:21.02 | MothaWork | software guys here are convinced they can write a driver if they can get docs |
| 14:21.08 | adyer | MothaWork: plus gspi performance is bad, they said 5mbps tops |
| 14:21.11 | MothaWork | for our RTOS |
| 14:21.16 | MothaWork | 5mbps is sufficient |
| 14:21.41 | MothaWork | given that our other option is bit banging SDIO, I'm guessing it's comparable, if we could even get such a bitbang to work in terms of timing |
| 14:21.50 | MothaWork | I have no idea how picky that chip is (likely very much so, from what I've heard) |
| 14:23.48 | adyer | MothaWork: I'd suspect embedding an access point equivalent (wifi + ethernet switch) and using stock vendor firmware would be easier. there's nothing in those boxes these days. |
| 14:24.07 | MothaWork | adyer: that's what I think I finally convinced people to do |
| 14:25.30 | MothaWork | adyer: we do have an ethernet MAC onboard our MCU |
| 14:25.37 | MothaWork | so getting wired ethernet is pretty simple |
| 14:26.02 | adyer | MothaWork: i've been looking at similar stuff for a while, I feel your pain... |
| 14:26.22 | adyer | MothaWork: sounds like you hvae for $ to allocate to it tho |
| 14:26.33 | MothaWork | apparently |
| 14:26.41 | MothaWork | I wasn't under the impression that we did, but apparently there is money for software dev |
| 14:26.44 | MothaWork | just not hardware dev |
| 14:26.48 | adyer | MothaWork: err more $, cant type for anything today |
| 14:27.34 | MothaWork | I would think that attempting to bit bang SDIO to a libertas chip on a RTOS with no previous driver port would result in hair loss, but then I'm not a software person |
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| 14:29.08 | adyer | MothaWork: ja, but I'm old enough that process is already underway |
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| 14:35.29 | prpplague | ds2: ping |
| 14:35.40 | prpplague | anyone other than ds2 have a beagle board? |
| 14:36.35 | chouimat|work | me |
| 14:38.17 | adyer | prpplague: one of the ppl at work got one |
| 14:39.03 | prpplague | chouimat|work: you used an arduino board before? |
| 14:39.12 | chouimat|work | no |
| 14:39.15 | chouimat|work | why? |
| 14:40.56 | prpplague | chouimat|work: tincantools is planning on some daughter boards for the beagle |
| 14:41.07 | prpplague | chouimat|work: just trying to get some feedback on some of it |
| 14:41.20 | prpplague | chouimat|work: can't seem to find anyone that has used both the beagle and arduino |
| 14:41.32 | chouimat|work | prpplague: if this include ethernet I will be happy ;) |
| 14:42.36 | chouimat|work | prpplague: btw I should receive my neuros OSD2.0 today |
| 14:42.54 | prpplague | chouimat|work: we are considering having the board support a enc28j60 module |
| 14:43.36 | chouimat|work | nice |
| 14:44.36 | MothaWork | prpplague: we have on ehere |
| 14:44.40 | MothaWork | were just talking about it |
| 14:44.49 | MothaWork | I'm actually making a daughterboard |
| 14:45.07 | prpplague | MothaWork: i came up with two different options |
| 14:46.08 | prpplague | MonMotha: first one would have a i2c ADC, a i2c GPIO expander , a couple leds, a couple pots, a couple push buttons, second uart brought out, protoarea, and thru hole pads for a enc28j60 module |
| 14:46.42 | prpplague | MonMotha: the other options was to basically take an arduino board and make it as a daughterboard, with the uart on the arduino connected to the second uart on the beagle |
| 14:48.08 | MothaWork | prpplague: we have a specific purpose in mind |
| 14:48.31 | prpplague | MonMotha: right, i was just trying to get some feedback as to which one would be better to go with |
| 14:53.01 | prpplague | chouimat|work: 10baseT enought for you? |
| 14:53.34 | chouimat|work | prpplague: don't know yet, but i think it will do |
| 14:56.03 | MothaWork | prpplague: tough to say |
| 14:56.15 | MothaWork | we were going to make a module with a 802.15.4 radio |
| 14:56.38 | prpplague | interesting |
| 15:04.54 | MothaWork | prpplague: we could theoretically make these formfactor/stack compatible |
| 15:05.04 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea |
| 15:05.20 | MothaWork | might be useful |
| 15:05.28 | MothaWork | if anything just to sell them to 3rd parties for volume |
| 15:05.28 | prpplague | MothaWork: what i had in mind for arduino board for the beagle was so they could use standard arduino shields with it |
| 15:05.40 | MothaWork | I see |
| 15:05.46 | prpplague | MothaWork: the main question i have is where to connect the arduino to the beagle |
| 15:05.57 | prpplague | MonMotha: via the uart or spi or i2c |
| 15:05.58 | MothaWork | my plan had been to just make boards the same size of the beagle and use PC104 style stack connectors on the expansion header |
| 15:06.14 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea i had a similiar idea |
| 15:06.40 | MothaWork | in my case, the clear answer is SPI: that's how the 802.15.4 chip talks :) |
| 15:06.54 | MothaWork | we have a Linux driver for the device, though it's certainly not suitable for inclusion into mainstream |
| 15:10.02 | solar | heh. Seems somebody did not ending disliking the arduino as much as he thought he might. |
| 15:10.38 | MothaWork | I never really understood the point of the arduino |
| 15:10.49 | MothaWork | it's not that it's a bad platform; I just never understood the point |
| 15:10.51 | chouimat|work | MothaWork: hobbies? |
| 15:11.15 | MothaWork | chouimat|work: I'm referring more to the programming "language" than the hardware |
| 15:11.41 | solar | That's Wiring vs the board. |
| 15:11.42 | prpplague | solar: i still don't get the appeal of the arduino(or the beagle) |
| 15:11.49 | prpplague | solar: but that seems to be what people like |
| 15:12.09 | solar | diff groups of fans imo. |
| 15:12.27 | chouimat|work | MothaWork: after having working with some EE who didn't know on how to program who insisted to write their own code ... you want something easy for them to use |
| 15:12.29 | prpplague | yea |
| 15:12.51 | prpplague | MothaWork: still the arduino folks aren't used to doing alot of spi stuff, so i figured doing it via the uart would be more their style |
| 15:14.36 | adyer | I haven't used it, but it seems to me the appeal would be not so much the language, it's the whole bundle, board, dev tools, language, examples, etc |
| 15:16.03 | prpplague | adyer: the language is the real key |
| 15:16.25 | solar | The appeal for me was simply seeing all the neat stuff people were doing on instructables. |
| 15:19.50 | adyer | hmm, new regs on shipping lithium and Li Ion batteries go into effect today. yum, I love reading legalese |
| 15:20.22 | prpplague | adyer: oh yea? |
| 15:21.01 | adyer | http://www.ultralifebatteries.com/documents/whitepapers/Ultralife_Batteries_Lithium_Battery_Transportation_Regulations.pdf is a summary |
| 15:23.09 | prpplague | adyer: ahh thanks |
| 15:26.27 | prpplague | solar: you got a list of everything you have included on the build so far? |
| 15:35.24 | chouimat|work | prpplague: cool http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/October2008/01/c2083.html :) |
| 15:38.33 | kgilmer | MothaWork, our core driver is 1.7Mb and the GSPI part is ~120k |
| 15:38.48 | solar | prpplague: Not handy but runtime you can type qlist -Uv on the device. |
| 15:39.35 | prpplague | solar: yea, i was meaning more of a descriptive list |
| 15:39.46 | prpplague | solar: but thats ok, i've started on a requirements list |
| 15:40.00 | MothaWork | kgilmer: yeah, I didn't think this was feasible |
| 15:40.36 | kgilmer | i was suprised at the size myself. |
| 15:42.24 | solar | prpplague: http://linbsd.net/~solar/8050/packages |
| 15:44.24 | prpplague | solar: thanks |
| 15:44.29 | solar | that was mostly guessing the stuff you wanted. Getting a full list from you would be helpful |
| 15:44.55 | prpplague | solar: yea trying to finish that now, i should have it for you this afternoon before EOD |
| 15:45.27 | prpplague | solar: got a dog-n-pony on monday, so gotta have this fixed by friday |
| 15:45.28 | solar | knows you better than that I think. |
| 15:45.43 | chouimat|work | goes back to toolchain hell |
| 15:46.00 | prpplague | solar: hehe, yea, i'm normally much more on top of stuff, just having to do my job and the EE's is wearing me a little thin |
| 15:47.00 | prpplague | solar: oh btw, shipping the 8050 for you today, you want me to send the mockup boards i did with it? |
| 15:47.41 | solar | How about the little MMC thing for the nail :) |
| 15:48.46 | solar | mockup boards. If they are functional then sure. But otherwise probably not needed. |
| 15:49.48 | solar | prpplague: if you need to test anything quickly I've went ahead and prebuilt a bunch of stuff. http://tinderbox.dev.gentoo.org/embedded/tct/gnueabi/ |
| 15:50.59 | prpplague | solar: they aren't functional, just used for placement and measurements |
| 15:51.24 | prpplague | solar: i still haven't gotten x to start up on your image |
| 15:51.35 | prpplague | solar: complains about not finding a font path |
| 15:51.56 | solar | not needed then. I already got one of the plastic enclosures samples and have a good idea of how small it's going to have to be. |
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| 15:55.01 | solar | One of my cellphones uses a s3c2442 |
| 15:55.48 | solar | have a feeling when this project is over I'll end up trying to put an image on it |
| 15:57.15 | prpplague | solar: an HTC phone? |
| 15:58.54 | solar | yep http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_p3600i-2126.php |
| 15:59.35 | solar | softkeys only so I'm not really fond of it. |
| 16:02.07 | prpplague | looks |
| 16:02.44 | prpplague | i've considered getting a cell phone, primarily just so i could put linux on it, hehe |
| 16:03.03 | CosmicPenguin | seriously? |
| 16:04.05 | prpplague | some of the HTC ones look interesting, but i just can't justify getting a cell phone and spending the money |
| 16:04.28 | solar | I have spares. I'll send ya one |
| 16:05.06 | prpplague | hehe doesn't do much good with out a service, hehe |
| 16:05.26 | solar | well you can pay for your own dataplan :p |
| 16:05.44 | prpplague | " but i just can't justify getting a cell phone" |
| 16:05.57 | solar | oh my you are serious? |
| 16:06.11 | solar | heh. it's > 1990. Everybody has a cellphone |
| 16:06.18 | prpplague | doesn't |
| 16:06.40 | solar | I'm really blown away. |
| 16:07.03 | solar | thats like meeting the 40 year old virgin |
| 16:07.17 | prpplague | hehe |
| 16:07.32 | adyer | prpplague: I assume your wife does, get a family plan and you can leech a few minutes/mo from her :-) |
| 16:07.41 | prpplague | adyer: nope |
| 16:08.21 | prpplague | adyer: i only live 5 blocks from work, and since my wife doesn't drive, we go pretty much everywhere together, no real need for a cell |
| 16:08.22 | solar | wife? heck no. As the acting lead of the project he is doing for work. They should without a doubt hand him a cellphone |
| 16:08.25 | MothaWork | I have a cell phone, but no home phone |
| 16:08.51 | prpplague | solar: why would work need me to have a cell phone? |
| 16:09.09 | solar | so they can work you like a dog? |
| 16:09.16 | prpplague | solar: hehe |
| 16:09.26 | prpplague | MonMotha: i hear alot of people are doing that these days |
| 16:09.46 | MothaWork | prpplague: it ends up being cheaper (!!) |
| 16:09.59 | MothaWork | I have an old regional rate plan with 300 minutes. $30/mo |
| 16:10.00 | solar | yep. I've never had a landline as an adult |
| 16:10.11 | prpplague | solar: the doors close at the office at 5:30pm, they don't want to see or speak to you until 8:30am the next day |
| 16:10.29 | MothaWork | I could local service for about $25/mo, but then I have no long distance |
| 16:10.59 | prpplague | MothaWork: how do you get internet? |
| 16:13.38 | prpplague | i guess connecting the beagle board to the arduino stuff via the uart is probably the easiest method |
| 16:16.13 | prpplague | hmm, there seems to be a bug in the input.c for the EV_LED events |
| 16:17.04 | prpplague | good lord i have a @#$%^@%$ load of work to do today |
| 16:17.15 | prpplague | atleast i don't have to take lunch today |
| 16:22.03 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 16:22.21 | prpplague | solar: things better in the office today? |
| 16:22.31 | CosmicPenguin | http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/10/how_to_usb_geiger_counter.html?CMP=OTC-0D6B48984890 <-- hammer project |
| 16:22.41 | CosmicPenguin | http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/10/first_lego_league_needs_j.html?CMP=OTC-0D6B48984890 <-- something for our Texas friends |
| 16:22.47 | solar | prpplague: dunno. I guess I should go into the office soon |
| 16:23.27 | solar | waiting for the stomach to settle. I did the fish thing last night |
| 16:24.52 | prpplague | solar: fish thing? |
| 16:25.09 | prpplague | solar: hope you aren't refering your date |
| 16:26.08 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you saying that would be a good project to use the hammer for? |
| 16:26.19 | CosmicPenguin | the geiger counter? Heh - yeah |
| 16:26.29 | CosmicPenguin | Detect radon! Fun for the whole family |
| 16:26.43 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you could do that with the nail pretty easy |
| 16:27.29 | solar | prpplague: playing darts and drinking like a fish at the local pub. |
| 16:27.59 | prpplague | solar: ahh |
| 16:28.05 | MothaWork | prpplague: FiOS |
| 16:28.13 | MothaWork | prpplague: they don't require POTS for that |
| 16:28.40 | prpplague | MonMotha: ahh interesting, i think they do here in texas |
| 16:29.33 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hows the halloween project coming along? |
| 16:31.28 | CosmicPenguin | excellently |
| 16:31.39 | CosmicPenguin | just need to get the speaker, and I'll be done |
| 16:31.51 | CosmicPenguin | Oh, I need to carve the tombstone for it too, but thats not that difficult |
| 16:32.00 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: interesting |
| 16:32.29 | CosmicPenguin | I'm going to have 10 tombstones this year, I think - I figure I'll need about 15 or 20 to fully fill my front yard |
| 16:32.49 | adyer | these look interesting (arm926 + stuff for 3-4$) http://www.eeproductcenter.com/logic/brief/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=210604897 |
| 16:33.09 | CosmicPenguin | Eventually I want the path for trick or treaters to loop through the "graveyard" with various animitronic things during the path |
| 16:33.45 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: got a second to look at something? |
| 16:33.56 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: thats pretty neat |
| 16:34.19 | ds2 | prpplague: pong (late) |
| 16:34.38 | prpplague | ds2: np, just checking in to see if you;d done your demo yet |
| 16:35.13 | ds2 | prpplague: mostly... mechanically & electrically, yes. |
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| 16:36.04 | prpplague | ds2: sorry i meant that you had done the presentation |
| 16:36.07 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=blob;f=drivers/input/input.c;h=c13ced3e0d3dfe7d0db777776c1b51a2cf4f59e5;hb=HEAD |
| 16:36.12 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: line 212 |
| 16:36.26 | ds2 | prpplague: that's friday afternoon |
| 16:37.14 | prpplague | ds2: ahh |
| 16:37.19 | ds2 | wish I could find a local source for a 1206 sized emerald green LED... the normal green LED just isn't cutting it for brightness |
| 16:38.04 | ds2 | prpplague: couldn't get the USB gadget mode to work right on the hammer so I am working around that |
| 16:38.18 | adyer | ds2: can you solder two on one set of pads and tweak the current? |
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| 16:38.45 | ds2 | adyer: I can. But I think I have maxed out on the brightness |
| 16:38.48 | prpplague | ds2: what was happening with the gadget ? |
| 16:39.04 | ds2 | adyer: what is not helping is that thing is right next to a blue LED and gets drowned out |
| 16:39.29 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: shouldn't that be !!value instead of just plain value |
| 16:39.37 | adyer | ds2: maybe a lightpipe would help |
| 16:39.41 | ds2 | prpplague: not sure exactly but enumeration fails; it can see the device there and get the vendor/device ids but it can't get the device config on EP0 |
| 16:39.49 | ds2 | adyer: I am using a giant light pipe |
| 16:40.21 | adyer | ds2: make the other leds dimmer? |
| 16:40.25 | prpplague | ds2: the usb host stuff works ok? |
| 16:40.44 | ds2 | adyer: I need the brightness |
| 16:40.56 | ds2 | prpplague: yes, at least for Bluetooth |
| 16:41.03 | prpplague | ds2: if it doesn't that means all the PLL's are correct, probably the resister configs are not correct |
| 16:41.44 | ds2 | prpplague: given how far it got, I suspect it has something to do with me using a MOSFET instead of the inverter like on the nail |
| 16:42.14 | prpplague | ds2: ahh |
| 16:42.17 | ds2 | I probally have a signal integrity issue; maybe the MOSFET won't got hard enough on or off |
| 16:43.03 | ds2 | prpplague: as far as I can tell, the inverter is to drive D+ to ground when it is idle and let it get pulled up via 1.5K when it is active; a MOSFET _should_ be able to do the same thing |
| 16:44.48 | ds2 | prpplague: the nail shows up as a full speed (12Mbs) device, right? |
| 16:44.53 | prpplague | ds2: yea |
| 16:45.21 | prpplague | ds2: techincally you don't need the same stuff that is on the nail, you can use the same design as the carrier which is simpler |
| 16:45.30 | ds2 | prpplague: I suspect something is not up to snuff for that; is there a quick change to put it into 1.5Mbps mode? |
| 16:45.58 | ds2 | prpplague: I decided on having that in hopes of avoiding some power on sequencing issues |
| 16:46.55 | prpplague | ds2: i don't believe there is an easy method |
| 16:47.12 | ds2 | very well, I will drop that |
| 16:48.58 | prpplague | ds2: have you got a schematic for the connections you are making on the usb slave port? |
| 16:49.19 | ds2 | prpplague: if you got questions, now is a good time... I am purposely not working on it for the next 8 hours so I can come back semi fresh to do final editing on the slides |
| 16:49.28 | ds2 | prpplague: not in a electronic format |
| 16:49.52 | prpplague | ds2: beagle board daughterboard |
| 16:50.06 | prpplague | ds2: i have two concepts |
| 16:50.49 | ds2 | ok |
| 16:51.06 | prpplague | ds2: first one being a board with a i2c adc, i2c gpio expander, pads for a enc28j60 ethernet modules, i2c eeprom, 2 pots, 2 leds, 2 push buttons, protoarea, and the second uart brought out |
| 16:51.46 | ds2 | so in otherwords, a giant level shifterboard =) |
| 16:51.47 | prpplague | ds2: the other is basically taking an arduino and putting on a daughter board for the beagle, connecting it via rs-232, all the arduino shield board would work with it |
| 16:51.54 | prpplague | ds2: yea |
| 16:52.39 | ds2 | seems simple enough to build... probally can prototype those things in an afternoon by hand |
| 16:53.46 | prpplague | ds2: yea, the question is which one to start with |
| 16:53.55 | ds2 | of the top of my head, the mechanicals is probally the biggest challenge in both boards |
| 16:53.57 | prpplague | ds2: and which one will appeal to more beagle people |
| 16:54.14 | prpplague | ds2: got the mechanical worked out |
| 16:54.42 | ds2 | prpplague: I suspect the first one. there have been a lot of people asking about bring out the GPIOs for "stuff" and the first one does not preclude connection to the arduino |
| 16:55.27 | prpplague | ds2: indeed |
| 16:55.42 | ds2 | what sucks is you are adding an ADC on there but there IS an ADC on there;just not brought out to anything :( |
| 16:56.18 | ds2 | and what are you terminating the UART2 into? a DB-9? |
| 16:57.50 | prpplague | ds2: yea db-9 is what i had planned |
| 16:58.42 | ds2 | prpplague: In _MY_ opinion, that is horribly large but I also understand that not everyone has a pile of "cisco style" RJ-45 serial connectors in the corner |
| 16:59.29 | prpplague | ds2: could come out to the same style of 2x5 header as on the main board |
| 17:00.04 | ds2 | prpplague: I have mix feelings about that; I use it cuz it is the only way to get the signal out |
| 17:01.03 | prpplague | ds2: yea |
| 17:01.55 | ds2 | prpplague: if it isn't too space expensive, having access to a 3.3V version of the UART signal might be useful |
| 17:02.32 | ds2 | prpplague: the other thing is bringing up the 2nd MMC port might be very nice to have since a lot of people are MMC booting; that second slot would be good for storage |
| 17:03.31 | ds2 | MMC + McSPI + serial + I2C would be nice |
| 17:03.45 | ds2 | anything else, bring it out as a GPIO |
| 17:05.47 | CosmicPenguin | If any body is cursed with Ubuntu, this is a useful script |
| 17:05.49 | CosmicPenguin | http://www.boundlesssupremacy.com/Cappy/getlibs/getlibs-2.05 |
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| 17:19.00 | wmat | anyone pre-order a Pandora today? |
| 17:25.56 | prpplague | ds2: yea i hadn't planned on doing anything with the second mmc port |
| 17:32.43 | prpplague | hmm, an event isn't being passed down to my input device |
| 17:32.44 | ds2 | prpplague: what about the McBSP? |
| 17:33.17 | prpplague | ds2: had not planed to do anything with that, was just going to do the i2c,spi ,gpios along with the gpio expander and adc |
| 17:34.42 | ds2 | prpplague: it is ironic that you are doing a GPIO expander and ADC.... both of which are on the TWL4030 already |
| 17:35.10 | prpplague | ds2: indeed |
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| 17:36.47 | MothaWork | ds2: on there and unused |
| 17:37.07 | ds2 | prpplague; might as well add a beefy 3.3V regulator on there so people can get power; prehaps a switcher? |
| 17:37.15 | MothaWork | I realize they were going for small and cheap, but it would have been nice to at least bring some of that stuff out to test pads |
| 17:37.15 | ds2 | MothaWork: yep. just buried in the copper |
| 17:37.28 | MothaWork | switcher from 5V to 3.3V? That's not much overhead |
| 17:37.44 | MothaWork | heck, that's getting into LDO territory on linears |
| 17:38.00 | ds2 | MothaWork: with stuff talked about... 500mA for use on the board and maybe another 500mA for use by the end user |
| 17:38.23 | ds2 | and make sure the LDO has a shutdown signal wired to a GPIO if you go with a LDO |
| 17:38.38 | ds2 | otherwise, it really rubs the overall OMAP picture the wrong way |
| 17:38.57 | prpplague | ds2: yea, planned to have a LDO |
| 17:39.59 | ds2 | MothaWork: a switcher would fit the whole omap PM theme better though |
| 17:40.13 | MothaWork | yeah, but I don't think there's enough from for a buck from 5V down to 3.3V |
| 17:40.32 | ds2 | good point |
| 17:41.27 | MothaWork | 2.5V would likely be doable, but even that's kinda pushing it |
| 17:41.39 | MothaWork | and people don't like 2.5V logic levels for experimentation as much as 3.3V and 5V |
| 17:45.03 | prpplague | @#$@#$ i can't figure out why my input module isn't getting an event |
| 17:53.37 | prpplague | argh this is driving me nuts |
| 17:53.49 | prpplague | this should be passed to all the other devices |
| 17:55.17 | prpplague | bangs head on desk |
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| 18:53.57 | ds2 | this smbfs is annoyingly slow. wonder if nfs is faster |
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| 19:13.59 | MothaWork | prpplague: you were thinking of a beagleboard add-on with ENC28J60 ethernet, right? |
| 19:14.58 | prpplague | MothaWork: yea |
| 19:16.09 | MothaWork | prpplague: I would like to arrange my 802.15.4 board so that it is at least electrically capable of being stacked with yours, so if you could keep me in the loop, that would be good |
| 19:16.55 | prpplague | MothaWork: will do, i'll have more time to work on it next week and we can get on the same page so to speak |
| 19:18.36 | MothaWork | my board is currently planned to have assembly jumpers to select SPI bus and chip select, but I do have an I2C ROM, so if you want one as well (e.g. for MAC address), we need to not conflict on bus address. I'm also using a bunch of GPIOs, but again they are configurable to an extent |
| 19:21.18 | prpplague | MothaWork: ahh ok, guess we will need to make sure we have the header placement correct so they stack |
| 19:33.29 | MothaWork | prpplague: I was just going to make it stack perfectly vertically over the top of the beagleboard |
| 19:33.29 | kergoth | http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2008/09/explore-your-hardware-iotools-and.html - heh.... i wonder if someone told them that tools like that have existed for some time already... |
| 19:33.34 | MothaWork | use PC104 style stack connectors |
| 19:33.41 | MothaWork | then standoffs in the corner mounting holes |
| 19:33.56 | prpplague | MothaWork: i'm going from the other direction, the bottom of the board |
| 19:34.17 | prpplague | MothaWork: so as to not cover up the buttons and leds |
| 19:34.32 | MothaWork | prpplague: well, in theory, either direction works. Just an issue of stack height which is at least just an assembly time option |
| 19:34.52 | MothaWork | going below would probably reduce the stack height, which would be good |
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| 19:40.15 | MothaWork | gah, beagleboard didn't put pull-ups on the I2C bus on the expansion connector |
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| 19:47.04 | chouimat|work | cool my neuros osd just got here |
| 19:51.15 | like2wise | cool |
| 19:51.56 | chouimat|work | now I need to find an ide hdd or most likely a sata to ide adapter |
| 20:18.08 | prpplague | MothaWork: i just ran a DRC/ERC on the EEidiots last production schematic |
| 20:18.18 | prpplague | MothaWork: 143 errors |
| 20:20.27 | MothaWork | well, how many of those are bogus? |
| 20:20.36 | MothaWork | I've never found the schematic DRC to be overly useful |
| 20:20.48 | MothaWork | generates so many bogus errors due to invalid assumptions in libraries |
| 20:22.27 | prpplague | MothaWork: about most are bogus, but he didn't even bother check to see if they were or not |
| 20:24.12 | MothaWork | prpplague: yeah, I do often run it and at least check over things |
| 20:24.19 | MothaWork | a good design review also helps |
| 20:24.25 | MothaWork | also, the beagleboard is apparently via under pad |
| 20:24.28 | MothaWork | whoo $$$ |
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| 20:28.14 | prpplague | hmm where to submit leds patches and to submit input patches |
| 20:28.17 | prpplague | googles |
| 20:28.56 | CosmicPenguin | LED patches go to RP |
| 20:29.06 | CosmicPenguin | or at least they did |
| 20:30.09 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i wonder how much flaming i will get over this patch |
| 20:30.15 | CosmicPenguin | its no fun if you don't get flamed |
| 20:31.11 | solar | would opt to bypass all that and simply ask gregkh to pre-review |
| 20:31.24 | CosmicPenguin | Nah - RP is a good guy |
| 20:31.43 | solar | that the guy in charge of the ARM branch? |
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| 20:33.21 | solar | arm is the only branch that has any structure to leds at all. And then across the diff mach-* it seems to be done in quite diff ways. |
| 20:36.22 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea RP is pretty nice, i don't mind constructive comments |
| 20:36.49 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: its the one that start out "no you dumb f, try again" |
| 20:38.37 | chouimat|work | hehe |
| 20:40.51 | CosmicPenguin | Don't worry too much about it |
| 20:41.01 | CosmicPenguin | The ocassional cluebat is good for the soul |
| 20:43.15 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: this adds a generic-leds event handler in the input subsystem, which is tied to a generic-leds trigger in the leds subsystem |
| 20:43.50 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: so you can define generic keys to toggle generic leds |
| 20:44.03 | CosmicPenguin | That sounds good |
| 20:44.08 | CosmicPenguin | useful |
| 20:44.38 | prpplague | from what i can tell, about 1/2 of the handheld input drivers would be better off this way |
| 20:46.20 | prpplague | i've got a gpio_keys button defined, it generates a EV_LED event, which is handled by the generic-leds event handler, which calls the ledtrig-ev-led trigger which toggles any leds that are associated with that trigger |
| 20:47.20 | prpplague | i'd like to do an addition trigger for a GREEN/RED trigger |
| 20:52.59 | CosmicPenguin | I admit that I don't know the gimp very well |
| 20:53.05 | CosmicPenguin | but I think that its getting more and more unusable by the day |
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| 21:10.05 | landley | CosmicPenguin: that's what I heard about the gimp 5 years ago. |
| 21:10.39 | landley | I'd like to point out there have been somewhere around 1700 days since then, and if true then the amount it's getting more usable by is not detectable by means known to modern science. |
| 21:10.44 | MothaWork | CosmicPenguin: well, they keep screwing with the interface to try to satisfy the photoshop people without cloning photoshop |
| 21:10.49 | CosmicPenguin | open source wins again |
| 21:11.04 | MothaWork | but that only makes it worse |
| 21:11.09 | MothaWork | it's like scratching an insect bite |
| 21:11.24 | landley | MothaWork: scratching your own itch is fundamental to open source. :) |
| 21:11.59 | MothaWork | landley: well, in this case they either need to give up and just clone the photoshop interface (ala KDE and GNOME have done with Windows) or take a hard line and say "no, this is our interface. We're not going to change it." |
| 21:12.09 | MothaWork | as it stands, they're taking the middle path and pissing off both sides |
| 21:12.26 | MothaWork | the people who know the GIMP interface are upset because it's constantly changing, and the Photoshop users are still unhappy because, well, it's not 100% like Photoshop |
| 21:13.02 | landley | Did it ever learn to word wrap text and let you do font changes? |
| 21:13.10 | landley | I tried to make a flyer with it for Linucon 1. |
| 21:13.19 | landley | Every text element had to be typed, then dragged with the mouse and placed to pixel level. |
| 21:13.27 | MothaWork | landley: yes and yes, IIRC |
| 21:13.28 | landley | This included every line of text (no wordwrapping). |
| 21:13.44 | landley | And every font change resulted in a different text object needing individual pixel-level placement. |
| 21:13.56 | landley | This was in 2003, when the project was already many years old. |
| 21:14.11 | MothaWork | I'm not sure if it word-wraps, but I know it does allow font changes now |
| 21:14.17 | landley | It apparently never occurred to the gimp developers that this was something anyone might want to do. |
| 21:14.24 | landley | Oh it allowed font changes then. Just not in the same text element. |
| 21:14.32 | MothaWork | well, the reality is that GIMP isn't the right tool for that jo |
| 21:14.33 | MothaWork | b |
| 21:14.45 | MothaWork | you want something like Publisher |
| 21:14.52 | MothaWork | (which is a terrible app, but you get the idea) |
| 21:14.54 | landley | The problem is, we couldn't find a job gimp _was_ the right tool for then. |
| 21:15.04 | landley | Nah, my friend pulled up photoshop and knocked the flyer out in about 15 minutes. |
| 21:15.17 | landley | His machine dual booted into a windows partition. |
| 21:15.27 | MothaWork | landley: well, Photoshop has a bunch of crap in it that has nothing to do with its intended purpose |
| 21:15.32 | MothaWork | it's kinda like MS Word and Excel in that regard |
| 21:15.35 | landley | Kind of sad considering Linucon was a linux conference, but we'd already wasted about 2 hours fiddling with the gimp with nothing to show for it, so... |
| 21:15.45 | MothaWork | lots of people applying the wrong tool for the job, but the commercial guys are happy to oblige |
| 21:15.57 | MothaWork | the correct tool is something like InDesign or PageMaker (if you are an Adobe whore) |
| 21:16.09 | landley | My last attemptep to use the gimp was in early 2007. I had a picture from a digital camera that I wanted to scale, rotate, and white balance a bit. |
| 21:16.19 | landley | I again gave up after about an hour. |
| 21:16.21 | MothaWork | that sort of thing tends to work well enough for me |
| 21:16.29 | MothaWork | really? I can do stuff like that in a few minutes |
| 21:16.43 | MothaWork | and if I want to do it en masse, it's theoretically scriptable, though I never learned the script bindings |
| 21:16.45 | landley | The "rotate the angle" of this picture control didn't _work_. |
| 21:17.05 | MothaWork | hum, that's odd |
| 21:17.06 | MothaWork | it should |
| 21:17.09 | landley | I accidentally found another rotation control, which did do what I want, buried down in some sub-menu that popped up a floating window that had what I wanted in a second tab or something equaly ridiculous. |
| 21:17.10 | MothaWork | you can also do "map to plane" |
| 21:17.20 | landley | Unfortunately, I needed to do it on a second picture and couldn't find it again. Looked for 10 minutes... |
| 21:17.26 | MothaWork | you may be referring to the map filter |
| 21:17.32 | MothaWork | it's designed for doing a whole lot more than a simple rotate |
| 21:17.49 | landley | Not a clue, this was a long time ago. Don't remember the details, just remember being very frustrated. |
| 21:17.49 | MothaWork | it can actually map the image onto a 3d surface |
| 21:18.15 | MothaWork | I never found the GIMP interface that terrible. I'd argue it's actully worse now |
| 21:18.18 | MothaWork | all the docking crap doesn't work right |
| 21:18.51 | landley | http://landley.net/notes-2006.html#10-11-2006 |
| 21:18.51 | MothaWork | just give me my discrete windows |
| 21:18.51 | CosmicPenguin | well, I didn't mean to open up a gripe fest |
| 21:22.51 | prpplague | ~lart CosmicPenguin for opening up a gripe fest |
| 21:22.51 | purl | puts on a hockey mask and jumps out at CosmicPenguin for opening up a gripe fest |
| 21:23.42 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: doh, you can trigger a barcode scan just about as fast you ever possible need, but the good scan trigger line doesn't seem to clear for 750ms |
| 21:44.28 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I just showed my neuros to my bosses ... I just booked myself in hours of meeting :( |
| 21:50.23 | solar | prpplague: the EOB for you is probably getting near.. Don't forget what ya said this morn |
| 21:51.10 | prpplague | solar: yep, i've been going non-stop, haven't even taken a break, and i'm only about 70% done on the list |
| 21:52.08 | prpplague | too much to do, too little time |
| 21:52.27 | prpplague | i wasn't counting on them firing the EEidiot and having me clean up his mess |
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| 23:55.54 | CosmicPenguin | Kernel summit is in tokyo next year |