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| 00:27.34 | joe_bleau | Wow, Mchip and On Semi teaming up to buy Atmel. Didn't anticipate that one. |
| 00:30.25 | RobotGuy | That would be sad if it does happen. |
| 00:30.31 | g1powermac_PB | hey RobotGuy |
| 00:30.36 | g1powermac_PB | just the guy I want to talk with |
| 00:30.37 | RobotGuy | Hi |
| 00:30.42 | RobotGuy | Uh oh |
| 00:31.37 | g1powermac_PB | http://g1powermac.com/2008/10/03/gyrostabilized-camera-mounts%e2%80%a6/ |
| 00:31.47 | RobotGuy | joe_bleau: If the "Mchip" you refer to is Micro Chip, I hope it does not happen. |
| 00:31.51 | g1powermac_PB | I want to make something that will do similar action |
| 00:32.03 | joe_bleau | Yep, Microchip. |
| 00:32.48 | g1powermac_PB | http://www.ephotodiscounters.com/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=86 |
| 00:32.50 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: I don't see the video. Am using a Library computer. |
| 00:32.55 | g1powermac_PB | oh |
| 00:33.12 | g1powermac_PB | well, basically its a gyrostabilized camera mount |
| 00:33.25 | g1powermac_PB | and what I want to do is stabilize that tripod mount |
| 00:33.29 | g1powermac_PB | since I got one of those |
| 00:33.43 | g1powermac_PB | I need to figure out how to finely move the ball head |
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| 00:34.01 | g1powermac_PB | I was thinking of using servos attached to the top of the stem of the tripod mount |
| 00:34.44 | g1powermac_PB | though not sure how finely controllable servos are |
| 00:35.02 | g1powermac_PB | or if they are strong enough to keep the camera upright |
| 00:35.03 | joe_bleau | Depends on the encoder resolution, right? |
| 00:35.24 | RobotGuy | It depends on the servo. Some are more accurate than others. It depends how much you want to spend. |
| 00:35.30 | joe_bleau | I've worked with servos that were multiple horsepower. |
| 00:36.15 | RobotGuy | g1powermac_PB: The payload weight will make a difference in the servo(s) you need too. Maybe linear actuator(s) might be better? |
| 00:36.53 | RobotGuy | How big a camera> |
| 00:37.05 | g1powermac_PB | fairly big |
| 00:37.22 | RobotGuy | I doubt it is going to be inexpensive to do this then. |
| 00:37.24 | g1powermac_PB | prolly about 7 or 8 lb fully loaded |
| 00:37.57 | RobotGuy | You talking about full X-Y-Z control? |
| 00:38.08 | g1powermac_PB | no, just xy |
| 00:38.20 | g1powermac_PB | side to side, up and down |
| 00:39.03 | g1powermac_PB | basically just the natural movement of the ball joint in the tripod head |
| 00:39.15 | RobotGuy | It's the up/down that will be more costly, since it will be moving all of the weight of the camera. Side to side won't take as much effort, but still might not be a reasonable cost. |
| 00:39.19 | joe_bleau | Would it make more sense to re-purpose a pan/tilt mount from a surv. camera? |
| 00:39.33 | g1powermac_PB | no, no, not that kind of up and down |
| 00:39.51 | g1powermac_PB | up/down tilt |
| 00:40.09 | g1powermac_PB | joe_bleau: most won't handle the weight |
| 00:40.12 | joe_bleau | rotation in two axis, not translation, right? |
| 00:40.17 | g1powermac_PB | and plus I got this tripod head already |
| 00:40.33 | g1powermac_PB | joe_bleau: not sure what you mean |
| 00:41.06 | joe_bleau | angular movement or linear movement? |
| 00:41.09 | RobotGuy | Up/Down to me means the camera pointing up or down, unless I am missing something. |
| 00:41.27 | g1powermac_PB | joe_bleau: angular |
| 00:41.29 | joe_bleau | Up/down could also mean moving the camera up and down. |
| 00:41.37 | g1powermac_PB | RobotGuy: its all tilting |
| 00:41.47 | g1powermac_PB | no physically moving the whole entire rig |
| 00:42.00 | joe_bleau | Right, so rotation in two axis. |
| 00:42.00 | RobotGuy | I don't understand then. |
| 00:42.02 | g1powermac_PB | basically I just need to move the ball joint |
| 00:42.21 | joe_bleau | Does your head have geared motion? |
| 00:42.26 | g1powermac_PB | no |
| 00:42.36 | g1powermac_PB | its friction based |
| 00:42.49 | g1powermac_PB | geared would make life easy ;-) |
| 00:43.10 | joe_bleau | Dad has a non-geared Bogen. Good stuff. |
| 00:43.19 | g1powermac_PB | bogen is nice :-) |
| 00:43.25 | g1powermac_PB | but insanely expensive |
| 00:44.13 | g1powermac_PB | but this is what I'm thinking |
| 00:44.24 | g1powermac_PB | two servos controlling each axis |
| 00:45.05 | g1powermac_PB | each servo has wire going through the stem of the tripod mount orthogonally |
| 00:45.17 | joe_bleau | How about: http://www.adorama.com/BG3275.html |
| 00:45.19 | g1powermac_PB | and then looped around a post |
| 00:45.51 | g1powermac_PB | thats about 10x than what I paid for the tripod head :-) |
| 00:46.23 | g1powermac_PB | but anyway, two loops of wire |
| 00:46.46 | g1powermac_PB | the servos manipulates the loops to create movement |
| 00:51.39 | roxfan | http://krisabel.ctv.ca/blog/_archives/2008/10/2/3912118.html nice! |
| 00:52.58 | g1powermac_PB | hmm nice |
| 00:53.05 | g1powermac_PB | except its sony |
| 00:56.35 | roxfan | so? |
| 00:56.56 | g1powermac_PB | I don't buy anything sony |
| 00:57.18 | roxfan | ok |
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| 05:17.28 | ohsix | http://beagleboard.org/ anyone seen this yet? D: |
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| 06:20.33 | methril | yo |
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| 07:10.40 | [AD]Turbo | yo |
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| 13:26.26 | prpplague | GPSFan: greetings |
| 13:26.42 | GPSFan | prpplague: g'day |
| 13:27.06 | prpplague | GPSFan: been busy molesting the farm animals? |
| 13:30.10 | GPSFan | prpplague: yeah, sent some off to the freezer last week ,ust picked them up yesterday. getting some hay delivered today (hopefully the rain will hold off till it's in the barn. Trying to figure out a new wireless network problem... system is much slower than before the "upgrade".... SSDD ;>) |
| 13:30.43 | prpplague | ahh |
| 13:31.35 | GPSFan | prpplague: how goes the "pulling the new handheld out of the fire" project? |
| 13:33.57 | prpplague | not too well |
| 13:34.15 | GPSFan | ;>( |
| 13:35.10 | GPSFan | cul, gotta run out and feed the critters... |
| 13:35.25 | prpplague | GPSFan: later |
| 13:36.30 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
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| 14:49.43 | MothaWork | prpplague: ping |
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| 14:54.53 | CosmicPenguin | hmmm - my system compiler has started segfaulting |
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| 15:42.12 | prpplague | anyone know anything about gtk themes? |
| 15:43.32 | CosmicPenguin | only to stay away from them |
| 15:43.54 | solar | depends what you need to know. |
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| 15:47.41 | Ian_Daniher_ | prpplague: yeah, I know a little about them |
| 15:47.47 | Ian_Daniher_ | what can I help you w/ ? |
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| 16:05.17 | prpplague | bangs head on desk |
| 16:05.18 | prpplague | bangs head on desk |
| 16:07.45 | agaffney | indeed |
| 16:08.27 | agaffney | I just listened to a ~40 minute audio interview about a new class of TCP/IP vuln |
| 16:08.29 | agaffney | http://www.darkreading.com/blog.asp?blog_sectionid=403&doc_id=164939&WT.svl=tease2_2 |
| 16:08.33 | agaffney | 'tis a bit scary |
| 16:08.43 | CosmicPenguin | thats the new DoS they've been talking about? |
| 16:09.00 | solar | hands prpplague desk head banging pad |
| 16:09.49 | prpplague | i'm 2 hours behind schedule and this @#$@#$ icon won't work |
| 16:12.17 | agaffney | CosmicPenguin: yeah |
| 16:12.24 | agaffney | the audio interview is long, but it's informative |
| 16:12.37 | agaffney | no solid technical details, but enough general details to be afraid |
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| 16:27.51 | prpplague | this darn thing is scaling a 128x128 image down to 10x10 |
| 16:38.27 | MothaWork | agaffney: I'm not convinced it's as bad as they make it out to be |
| 16:38.56 | MothaWork | agaffney: it's no worse than what you can do with a moderately size botnet with similar bandwidth |
| 16:39.58 | MothaWork | basically, all it does is allow you to fully open a TCP connection (forcing the other end to eat up space in its state table) without actually having a state table of your own |
| 16:40.20 | MothaWork | mitigations are similar to the classic synflood before the advent of syncookies |
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| 16:40.53 | MothaWork | large(r) state tables, quick(er) idle timeouts, and per-peer connection limits |
| 16:41.08 | MothaWork | most OSes currently have obscenely long timeouts on TCP connections |
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| 17:43.07 | agaffney | MothaWork: without full technical details, one can only assume it has the potential to be very bad |
| 17:43.37 | agaffney | the interview seemed to imply that syn cookies can't protect against this |
| 17:47.46 | prpplague | man, i am soooo surprised at the kind of questions tincantools gets |
| 17:48.05 | prpplague | "hi, i just purchased a flyswatter and i'm wonder what JTAG is, can you help me?" |
| 17:48.12 | g1powermac | oh dear |
| 17:48.20 | g1powermac | thats scary |
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| 17:49.28 | g1powermac | sweet mother of pearl, bash.org is finally back up |
| 17:50.06 | g1powermac | 's productivity drops to zero again |
| 17:52.29 | g1powermac | 's famous quote: http://www.bash.org/?813190 :-) |
| 17:53.10 | chouimat | hehe |
| 17:54.10 | agaffney | hah |
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| 18:33.08 | MothaWork | agaffney: syncookies are designed to protected against the traditional "half open connection" syn attack |
| 18:33.40 | agaffney | I know |
| 18:34.01 | MothaWork | basically you send a bunch of SYNs with either forged sources of inactive addresses or simply don't reply to the SYN ACK. The host will then have an entry in the state table for the half open connection. Syncookies allow that state entry to be postponed until the final ACK is received. |
| 18:34.10 | agaffney | this attack seems multi-vectored, though |
| 18:34.12 | agaffney | multiple part |
| 18:34.21 | MothaWork | In this case, you ARE fully opening a connection, but the attacker can do so using a similar technique to syncookies to store no state of their own |
| 18:34.24 | agaffney | multiple levels of "damage" |
| 18:34.36 | MothaWork | basically, the attacker can take up bunches of resources on the target system with minimal resources of its own |
| 18:34.36 | agaffney | and I believe something similar to syn flooding was one of the attacks |
| 18:34.44 | agaffney | right, I got that much |
| 18:35.10 | MothaWork | however, that means that you do have to reply to the SYN ACK, which means your IP is known (it cannot be forged), which means a potential mitigation is to limit fully open TCP connections from a single IP |
| 18:35.44 | MothaWork | also, timing out fully open but inactive (no traffic seen recently) connections more quickly is another potential mitigation. Most OSes currently have this timeout set in the realm of days |
| 18:36.57 | MothaWork | basically, this is just a revelation that the concept of a syncookie can work both ways. You can cause the target machine to store all the state needed for you to completely open the TCP connection, leaving you (the attacker) to store nothing |
| 18:37.31 | MothaWork | given the cheapness of RAM and abundance of botnets these days, I'm not sure how this discovery has nearly the major "sky falling" impact they seem to claim it does |
| 18:37.40 | MothaWork | unless I'm missing something from the description |
| 18:39.48 | MothaWork | this is also not something that a simple userspace app could easily implement on most OSes. You need to get the OS to not reject the (unexpected, as far as the TCP stack is concerned) SYN ACK with a RST but rather respond with the appropriate ACK. The initial SYN can be sent from userspace using a raw socket, but you'd have to get the TCP stack to "be quiet", which requires either disabling it or modifying it in some way. Either way, th |
| 18:39.49 | MothaWork | at's kernel side. |
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