| 00:04.43 | ds2 | for simplicity, is there a good reason why one should build a simple analog loop instead of using a small uC? |
| 00:05.22 | ds2 | s/should/shouldn't/ |
| 00:06.14 | ds2 | (and yes, I am aware I am asking an embedded audience) |
| 00:07.24 | g1powermac_PB | MonMotha: hmm, maybe so |
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| 00:24.31 | JohnnyL | hi |
| 00:32.50 | MonMotha | ds2: response time is usually a big reason to go with analog stuff over a small uC |
| 00:33.58 | MonMotha | digital loops are limited by their largest allowed excursion per time quantum (which has stability implications) and the rate at which those time quantums elapse (clock rate). Analog systems are continuous and therefore don't have the latter and the former is sometimes easier to analyze |
| 00:34.26 | roxfan2 | http://elinux.org/Talk:Hardware_Hacking |
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| 00:58.22 | ds2 | but for stuff like a thermostat, thermal inertia is likely to dominate over any speed limitations of a digital loop |
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| 03:09.00 | MonMotha | ds2: depends on what you're doing in that thermostat, but yes, I would imagine that the flexiblity afforded by a digital control loop (handling certain situations differently, emergency heat, etc.) would better serve things than an analog loop |
| 03:09.26 | MonMotha | especially with the kind of hysteresis required/desired in a heating control system. Most of that is dome mechanically in non-digital units, not with analog electronics |
| 03:15.24 | ds2 | MonMotha: I like that argument... trying to convince myself I need a processor to build a little thermostat for an aquarium :) |
| 03:40.04 | solar | if you value the fish in a tank vs a plate |
| 04:14.21 | ds2 | if it is big enough to go on a plate... |
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| 08:25.08 | [AD]Turbo | hola |
| 08:25.19 | methril | hola |
| 08:25.53 | mnemoc | ciao |
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| 15:00.22 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: once we go live with the 8050 in january, i'll see about getting a unit for you to work with, but i have to be assured i'll _some_ results back |
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| 15:00.44 | prpplague | kergoth: greetings |
| 15:01.29 | kergoth | hey |
| 15:10.55 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: awesome |
| 15:11.38 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: if I don't write you some code, you can come over and beat me over the head with my old ibm thinkpad :-) |
| 15:12.00 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: yea like i'd go back to KY just for that |
| 15:12.32 | g1powermac_PB | heh, it'll be a drive by head beating so you spend as little time in the state as possible ;-) |
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| 16:05.06 | prpplague | eww, just had a request for java on a sa-1110 design |
| 16:05.33 | CosmicPenguin | dude, all the cool kids are doing java |
| 16:06.42 | CosmicPenguin | unfortunate - my mouse is stuck |
| 16:06.51 | prpplague | hmm |
| 16:06.59 | prpplague | goes to look for a jvm for strongarm |
| 16:07.06 | CosmicPenguin | friggin X |
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| 16:08.39 | prpplague | lordy lordy |
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| 16:20.45 | prpplague | wonders how functional kaffee is |
| 16:23.52 | CosmicPenguin | very functional - I think I'm going to brew another pot |
| 16:25.47 | prpplague | hmm, waba looks more like what i need, just don't know how well it compiles for arm/strongarm |
| 16:32.40 | CosmicPenguin | I find vim.wikia.com to be useful |
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| 16:38.25 | prpplague | looks |
| 16:39.12 | CosmicPenguin | Its amazing how addicted you get to things like trailing whitespace matching |
| 16:39.19 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: http://www.k-embedded-java.com/mika/trac/ |
| 16:39.27 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: looks fairly interesting |
| 16:39.32 | CosmicPenguin | my work .vimrc was more valuable then I gave it credit for |
| 16:39.49 | kergoth | CosmicPenguin: how so? |
| 16:40.03 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: that is interesting |
| 16:40.11 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: the key test would be - could it run android? :) |
| 16:40.20 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 16:40.26 | CosmicPenguin | kergoth: just all those commands you pick up along the way that you can't remember when you need them |
| 16:40.36 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i doubt it, but i'm more concerned with our specific client |
| 16:40.54 | CosmicPenguin | I think thats going to be the yardstick for embedded java these days |
| 16:40.58 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: they have about 6000 of our legacy M7100 handhelds running on a sa-1110 |
| 16:41.32 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 16:41.56 | kergoth | CosmicPenguin: ahh, yeah |
| 16:42.23 | kergoth | CosmicPenguin: heh, i used to keep a 'quick reference' at the top of my vimrc of all the random mappings and pluginc ommands and crap that i had buried in ~/.vim* |
| 16:42.27 | kergoth | should update that |
| 16:45.05 | prpplague | hmm |
| 16:45.18 | prpplague | i guess i need to do some reading up on some of java stuff |
| 16:45.24 | kergoth | poor prpplague |
| 16:45.28 | prpplague | indeed |
| 16:45.36 | CosmicPenguin | money is good |
| 16:46.03 | kergoth | what's the job/contract? |
| 16:46.04 | CosmicPenguin | and man - I left my nifty svn commit patch at work too |
| 16:46.11 | kergoth | CosmicPenguin: :( |
| 16:46.17 | CosmicPenguin | erm - svn patch commit script |
| 16:46.40 | kergoth | sucks that they didn't give you more time to get your stuff. its amazing how much little crap you collect over time |
| 16:46.52 | prpplague | hmm, looks like i probably could just use gcj to compile directly to machine code |
| 16:46.52 | kergoth | my vim setup is still on the web in git if you want to steal anything |
| 16:47.04 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: money is good for what? |
| 16:47.38 | kergoth | paying rent is good |
| 16:47.45 | kergoth | i kind of like electricity too |
| 16:47.49 | kergoth | oh, and food |
| 16:48.37 | prpplague | s/food/beer |
| 16:48.50 | kergoth | s/beer/scotch/ |
| 16:52.31 | prpplague | has too many things to do |
| 17:25.35 | sorphin | yawns |
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| 17:39.56 | prpplague | lordy lordy, 2009 is gonna be one hell of a year |
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| 17:44.00 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: I agree |
| 17:57.45 | sorphin | prpplague: yeah.. i'll be able to travel again w/o hassle by the end of it :P |
| 17:58.15 | sorphin | throws a bucket of squid at kergoth. |
| 17:58.33 | CosmicPenguin | where is sorphin getting all this seafood? |
| 17:58.51 | CosmicPenguin | Shouldn't he be throwing beef or corn or something? |
| 17:59.03 | prpplague | sorphin: yea by the end of 2009 you'll need papers to travel |
| 17:59.14 | sorphin | throws bales of hay at CosmicPenguin |
| 17:59.27 | sorphin | prpplague: Your Papers Please |
| 18:00.31 | sorphin | so when did we lose having a bot in here? |
| 18:02.05 | prpplague | ~lart sorphin |
| 18:02.05 | purl | beats sorphin over the head with a microkernel |
| 18:02.25 | prpplague | bot seems fine to me |
| 18:02.48 | sorphin | oh |
| 18:02.50 | sorphin | it's purl |
| 18:03.02 | sorphin | mind was still thinking ibot/jbot |
| 18:03.13 | sorphin | ~whaleslap cosmicpenguin |
| 18:03.14 | purl | ACTION beats cosmicpenguin upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 18:03.19 | sorphin | yay. hugh |
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| 18:24.00 | g1powermac | actually wouldn't mind being beaten over the head with a microkernel :-) |
| 18:24.46 | RobotGuy | g1powermac: Hi |
| 18:24.52 | g1powermac | hey RobotGuy |
| 18:26.01 | RobotGuy | I wasn't able to take my Ham test(s) Sunday. :( |
| 18:26.50 | g1powermac | is trying to figure out why the heck hot water circulating pumps cost close to $200 |
| 18:27.15 | RobotGuy | Maybe it's because of the heat factor. |
| 18:27.18 | kergoth | solar: you happen to have hardware that you can test current tslib svn on, by chance? I'd like to confirm that nothing exploded horribly :) |
| 18:27.47 | g1powermac | maybe |
| 18:29.02 | g1powermac | wants to play with a passive room cooling and heating idea but I don't have a pump |
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| 18:38.25 | solar | kergoth: yes. But I still have 2 patches to pass on to you |
| 18:38.32 | kergoth | which patches? |
| 18:38.42 | solar | ones I need to dig up and show ya |
| 18:38.57 | solar | gimme a few if that's ok. I'm still waking up |
| 18:39.17 | kergoth | k |
| 18:39.20 | kergoth | no rush |
| 18:39.39 | kergoth | just happened to see 'find someone to test tslib svn' on his todo list |
| 18:41.25 | solar | kergoth: http://rafb.net/p/yXPCdi46.html (both come from the OpenMoko camp) |
| 18:41.36 | prpplague | looks |
| 18:43.27 | kergoth | the second one is the version change and a removal of AC_FUNC_MALLOC. i already applied the version change, and tslib does use malloc, it seems silly to remove that |
| 18:44.09 | kergoth | the first i'd need more justification to apply. why would that be necessary? it looks like a hack to work around something |
| 18:45.36 | solar | kergoth: the first is a hack but I think it's to get tslib to shutup about unknown events. In the past I just commented out the debug printf/syslog or whatever code it was that was spitting out the error for raw devices. |
| 18:47.02 | kergoth | what event types are causing the error? |
| 18:47.13 | solar | event type 0 |
| 18:49.14 | solar | fprintf(stderr, "tslib: Unknown event type %d\n", ev.type); |
| 18:49.23 | solar | that line iirc. |
| 18:49.36 | kergoth | why is your device emitting EV_SYN's when it claims it doesnt support syn? |
| 18:51.15 | solar | that I don't know. I just rcall seeing that error myself when using tslib on the HTC wizard. And guessing the OM guys are seeing it as well. |
| 18:51.18 | kergoth | either tslib wasn't properly looking at the supported info when setting up the device, or the driver is incorrectly setting what it supports |
| 18:51.28 | kergoth | the former was improved by vojtech, though i dont think it wouldve effected EV_SYN |
| 18:51.39 | kergoth | either way, that patch isn't the right fix, it won't be going in |
| 18:51.46 | kergoth | they should fix the root cause |
| 18:53.16 | prpplague | goes to check on his ev_leds patches to see if anyone commented on it |
| 18:53.21 | kergoth | of course, tslib should stop using stderr entirely and use syslog, should probably do that sometime soon |
| 18:54.54 | solar | http://www.jvisu.com/software/xf86-input-tslib/ also in case you have not seen it. |
| 18:56.12 | kergoth | cool |
| 18:56.39 | kergoth | noticed the evdev xf86 plugin has calibration stuff, need to look at what they're doing there, just reading pointercal if it exists, or what |
| 18:59.59 | solar | oh that's another kicker I'm actually dealing with on a current device. ts_calibrate on a fbcosole that's rotated does it's calibration landscape mode and then it's output does not seem usable. |
| 19:01.43 | prpplague | solar: you talking about on the 8050? |
| 19:02.39 | solar | prpplague: yep. |
| 19:03.31 | prpplague | solar: try swapping the x/y values in the .config for the kernel, i.e. 320x240 to 240x320 |
| 19:04.31 | prpplague | solar: driver->input->touchscreen horizontal size |
| 19:04.58 | prpplague | solar: i had to swap those values to get opie working properly as well |
| 19:08.43 | solar | prpplague: where it gets funny. Using the same kernel you shiiped on the device. Even using the pointercal directly off the poky install that was working. it still was miscalibrated. |
| 19:09.23 | solar | oh and I have a bunch of new gpe-applets for ya. |
| 19:09.44 | prpplague | solar: interesting |
| 19:10.06 | prpplague | solar: i had been using xtscal to do the calibration |
| 19:10.38 | solar | yeah xtscal has quite a few deps. I'm trying to avoid it |
| 19:11.24 | solar | and ts_calibrate is what tslib ships with. So if it's cool I'd like to beat that into submission |
| 19:12.16 | prpplague | solar: just a note, i suspect we are going to need a jvm for the 8050 |
| 19:12.26 | prpplague | solar: not right away |
| 19:13.07 | solar | jvm's yikes. that's one area I know nothing about. Are any known ones cross-compilable ? |
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| 19:13.44 | prpplague | solar: yea a number of them from what i can tell |
| 19:14.05 | prpplague | solar: might be able to get away with using gcj , we'll just have to see |
| 19:14.27 | solar | Want any of these on the 8050? http://rafb.net/p/AMuTrk73.html |
| 19:14.40 | prpplague | looks |
| 19:15.19 | prpplague | solar: i don't recognice the "teleport" |
| 19:15.32 | prpplague | solar: and the name isn't too revealing |
| 19:15.36 | prpplague | solar: what is that? |
| 19:17.05 | solar | http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk/package/gpe/teleport/teleport.desc |
| 19:18.34 | prpplague | looks |
| 19:18.35 | solar | I never used it. I just sat down yesterday and more or less did a dump of everything on http://gpe.linuxtogo.org/download/source/ and see what cross compiled. |
| 19:19.47 | prpplague | solar: ahh, no need for that |
| 19:19.53 | prpplague | solar: the rest looks good |
| 19:19.58 | prpplague | the more the merrier |
| 19:20.57 | solar | prpplague: heh.. Well some of those likke gpe-beam wont do you much good. |
| 19:22.50 | ds2 | gpe beam? is the M8050 going to run Z programs in emulation mode or something? :) |
| 19:25.11 | prpplague | solar: ahh indeed, as the 8050 has no irda, no need for gpe-beam |
| 19:26.22 | solar | prpplague: http://rafb.net/p/l2BPGX78.html |
| 19:26.34 | prpplague | looks |
| 19:27.36 | prpplague | solar: lovely |
| 19:27.43 | kergoth | solar: thats odd, as long as its calibrated with the screen at the rotation itll be used at, there shouldnt be a problem. there's also the xyswap option to the config that might be useful. really, tslib should probably open the framebuffer, compare the current resolution to the one it was calibrated at, and adjust for it.. need something like that for the devices that can zoom.. wonder how they're handling it now |
| 19:28.10 | prpplague | solar: btw, we made last minute changes to the plastics and pcb for the microsd, it should be a little easier to work with |
| 19:28.33 | solar | Can I trade ya :) |
| 19:28.45 | prpplague | solar: hehe |
| 19:30.34 | solar | hopes everybody has the day off today |
| 19:30.49 | prpplague | solar: uh nope |
| 19:31.02 | kergoth | 's at work |
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| 19:47.34 | MothaWork | solar: why would people have the day off? Is it some federal holiday or something? |
| 19:47.55 | RobotGuy | MothaWork: Veteran's Day, I think. |
| 19:48.03 | MothaWork | RobotGuy: that was the joke |
| 19:54.40 | solar | MonMotha: well just the ppl in the US. But yeah veterans day. Our company was founded and is pretty much staffed it's entire exec staff with vets. |
| 19:55.27 | MothaWork | solar: I'm aware today is veteran's day. I was making a crack at the fact that many many companies do not observe that particular holiday |
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| 20:01.44 | sleipnir | hello |
| 20:01.51 | sleipnir | kergoth: solar said you needed testers. |
| 20:02.21 | kergoth | aye, just try out current tslib svn on a device with a touchscreen, make sure it doesn't explode |
| 20:02.25 | kergoth | :) |
| 20:02.52 | sleipnir | kergoth: for now i'm living on a openmoko freerunner, guess this will do right!? |
| 20:03.42 | kergoth | would think so, yep |
| 20:03.55 | kergoth | 's embedded hardware is 3000 miles away at the moment |
| 20:05.02 | sleipnir | solances kergoth |
| 20:05.45 | sleipnir | kergoth: can you point me to the repos? |
| 20:06.12 | kergoth | http://svn.berlios.de/svnroot/repos/tslib/trunk/tslib |
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| 20:20.04 | sleipnir | kergoth: failed http://pastebin.com/m512877e |
| 20:20.28 | sleipnir | tell me if you need further information plz |
| 20:23.39 | solar | sleipnir: quite funny. I just finished hacking a tslib-9999.ebuild myself for you. |
| 20:23.48 | solar | and I see you beat me too it. |
| 20:23.50 | sleipnir | solar: faster lalala |
| 20:23.53 | sleipnir | ;-) |
| 20:24.13 | kergoth | grumbles, copy/pasted contents of a patch whose wrapping got screwed up by a mailer |
| 20:24.18 | kergoth | fixes |
| 20:24.33 | sleipnir | kergoth: drop me a note to try again plz |
| 20:24.48 | kergoth | will do |
| 20:27.59 | kergoth | sleipnir: k, committed the fix, try again whenever |
| 20:28.00 | kergoth | thanks |
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| 20:33.43 | sleipnir | kergoth: another one http://pastebin.com/m50eb6026 |
| 20:38.12 | kergoth | sleipnir: okay, one more time please :) |
| 20:40.23 | sleipnir | on my way |
| 20:40.25 | sleipnir | :-) |
| 20:40.25 | solar | compiles clean now. |
| 20:40.29 | kergoth | thanks |
| 20:40.55 | kergoth | solar: killed the AC_FUNC_MALLOC like that second patch of yours did. read up on it, and discovered its only needed if you call malloc with an argument of zero.. |
| 20:41.01 | kergoth | why someone would want to do something like that, is beyond me |
| 20:41.59 | solar | kergoth: that patch came from sleipnir btw. |
| 20:42.06 | kergoth | ah, hehe |
| 20:42.25 | sleipnir | kergoth: not really got it from the openmoko guys ;-) |
| 20:42.45 | sleipnir | it's fun to see patch propagation isn't is |
| 20:42.48 | sleipnir | ;-) |
| 20:42.53 | kergoth | indeed |
| 20:43.03 | sleipnir | ok compiles here also |
| 20:43.09 | kergoth | needs to be more cross distro collaboration in general imo |
| 20:44.33 | sleipnir | kergoth: i agree |
| 20:47.12 | sleipnir | kergoth: |
| 20:47.12 | sleipnir | root@Hugin $ ts_calibrate |
| 20:47.12 | sleipnir | xres = 480, yres = 640 |
| 20:47.12 | sleipnir | selected device uses is not a touchscreen (must support BTN_TOUCH events) |
| 20:47.15 | solar | one thing I run into that bugs the heck out of me.. Lots of gpe based programs simply assume that we are being built from an OE,DEB env. |
| 20:50.48 | sleipnir | kergoth: ts_calibrate worked for me with the last version |
| 20:50.55 | sleipnir | tslib-1.0 |
| 20:56.24 | kergoth | solar: :( people need more automated testing. fire off a set of builds in different environments, under different distros in vmware, etc |
| 20:57.01 | kergoth | sleipnir: oi, looking into it. that mustve been the patch from vojtech, since apparently some people weren't able to use their touchscreens with it.. and now it breaks existing ones.. doh |
| 20:57.04 | kergoth | thanks |
| 20:57.47 | sleipnir | welcome, trigger me if you need testing |
| 20:58.06 | kergoth | k |
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