| 00:26.03 | sunrunner20|prom | know what really pisses me off? |
| 00:26.18 | sunrunner20 | is wher ethe ()#*$#() doe smirc keep getting that i'm at prom |
| 00:36.28 | roxfan | options-connect-nickname/alternative |
| 00:46.33 | MonMotha | people still use mirc? |
| 00:59.59 | roxfan | yep |
| 01:00.15 | roxfan | it's the only decent client on windows imho |
| 01:00.59 | MonMotha | XiRCON |
| 01:01.04 | MonMotha | old, abandoned, but awesome |
| 01:01.22 | ds2 | thou shalt not use windows |
| 01:02.22 | roxfan | tcl eh |
| 01:04.41 | roxfan | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:MsComicChat.png eheh |
| 01:04.55 | *** join/#edev CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@72-254-56-178.client.stsn.net) |
| 01:04.56 | *** mode/#edev [+o CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 01:05.06 | MonMotha | oh, I remember comic chat |
| 01:23.28 | ds2 | Cali? where? |
| 01:24.06 | CP|cali | Palo Alto |
| 01:24.16 | ds2 | interview? |
| 01:24.46 | CP|cali | yep |
| 01:25.16 | ds2 | company nameable? |
| 01:36.08 | joe_bleau | Exciting. Hope it goes well! |
| 01:51.02 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp147.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 01:52.18 | joe_bleau | Anyone know if the Geode LX will do 1080p? (1920x1080, I think.) |
| 02:21.11 | *** join/#edev linac (n=lin@222.76.89.63) |
| 02:42.44 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp120.109-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 02:48.41 | *** join/#edev kergoth (n=kergoth@ip68-3-163-239.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 03:03.36 | *** join/#edev Crofton (n=balister@12.234.232.66) |
| 03:10.13 | *** join/#edev dd (n=kazaLite@116.58.8.130) |
| 03:12.18 | *** join/#edev mnemoc_ (n=amery@shell.opensde.net) |
| 03:35.47 | *** join/#edev keram (n=oof@unaffiliated/keram) |
| 03:42.13 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@pool-96-225-210-142.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:49.10 | *** join/#edev mnemoc_ (n=amery@shell.opensde.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:49.10 | *** join/#edev dd (n=kazaLite@116.58.8.130) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:49.10 | *** join/#edev Redhatter (n=vk4msl@gentoo/developer/redhatter) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:49.11 | *** join/#edev dmead (n=dan@ip229.sensaphone.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:49.11 | *** join/#edev joe_bleau (n=joe_blea@adsl-69-152-218-255.dsl.fyvlar.swbell.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:49.11 | *** join/#edev keesj (n=keesj@ip49-193-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:49.11 | *** join/#edev HcE (i=egtvedt@egtvedt.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:36.52 | *** join/#edev DrZimmerman (n=theo@77-56-225-121.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 05:35.51 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@72.22.129.165) |
| 06:34.12 | *** join/#edev Omegamoon (n=egoe@demolitionman.xs4all.nl) |
| 06:47.52 | *** join/#edev sleipnir (n=Sleipnir@p4FDD525D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:03.11 | *** join/#edev harpal (n=Harpal@122.169.108.195) |
| 07:39.16 | *** join/#edev JoeLlama (n=snork@unaffiliated/joellama) |
| 07:50.57 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@p57BD2C33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:35.06 | *** join/#edev harpal_ (n=Harpal@122.169.108.195) |
| 08:48.44 | *** join/#edev harpal__ (n=Harpal@121.246.75.165) |
| 08:54.45 | *** join/#edev harpal__ (n=Harpal@122.169.108.195) |
| 08:58.04 | *** join/#edev harpal_ (n=Harpal@121.246.75.165) |
| 09:25.36 | *** join/#edev hw (n=hw@p578b3905.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:25.42 | *** join/#edev boris_OmegA (n=boris@194.51.141.172) |
| 09:28.22 | *** join/#edev roxfan (n=dunno@96.162-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 10:12.46 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp062.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 11:31.55 | *** join/#edev methril|gone (n=Methril@213.27.233.98) |
| 11:40.44 | *** join/#edev g1powermac (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 11:42.27 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_PB (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 11:56.56 | *** join/#edev methril|gone (n=Methril@213.27.233.98) |
| 12:06.12 | *** join/#edev methril|gone (n=Methril@213.27.233.98) |
| 12:20.58 | *** join/#edev linac (n=lin@124.21.245.139) |
| 12:28.00 | *** join/#edev chouimat|away (n=dieu@r2351064.cidc.net) |
| 13:23.33 | *** join/#edev mbuf (n=user@94.191.160.87.bredband.tre.se) |
| 13:33.55 | *** join/#edev samrobb (n=samrobb@eng.arriad.com) |
| 14:07.48 | *** join/#edev GPSFan (n=kenm@64.92.145.112) |
| 14:07.48 | *** mode/#edev [+o GPSFan] by ChanServ |
| 14:21.36 | *** join/#edev harpal_ (n=Harpal@122.169.108.195) |
| 14:27.40 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 14:33.01 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp121.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 14:35.40 | prpplague | ho ho ho |
| 14:35.45 | prpplague | merry freakin friday |
| 14:40.37 | prpplague | ~seen landley |
| 14:40.40 | purl | landley <n=landley@cpe-70-116-30-223.austin.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #uclibc, 3d 6h 24m 32s ago, saying: 'I have yet to actually find a package that _needs_ NPTL. That's a behind the scenes implementation detail. What they actually _need_ is TLS, which is what exposes a new API.'. |
| 14:43.33 | GPSFan | prpplague: landley's blog says he had a bad hard drive crash on his laptop on the 19th. |
| 14:43.41 | prpplague | GPSFan: doh |
| 14:44.09 | prpplague | i hope he had all his stuff backed-up/checked in |
| 14:44.40 | GPSFan | yeah!! |
| 14:45.11 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 14:45.18 | prpplague | soooo much work |
| 14:45.21 | prpplague | soooo little time |
| 14:45.30 | prpplague | woke up yesterday with a massive migrain |
| 14:45.35 | prpplague | ~seen solar |
| 14:45.36 | purl | solar is currently on #edev #uclibc. Has said a total of 60 messages. Is idling for 2d 11h 44m 48s, last said: 'wait no blockers. We have mantis vs bugzilla ;/'. |
| 15:04.11 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_PB (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 15:15.34 | *** join/#edev kergoth (n=kergoth@ip68-3-163-239.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 15:18.43 | *** join/#edev kergoth_ (n=kergoth@ip68-3-163-239.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 15:29.16 | *** join/#edev adyer (n=adyer@adsl-69-223-13-78.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 16:07.13 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_PB (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 16:20.39 | prpplague | american airlines web site is such a ripoff |
| 16:35.57 | agaffney | prpplague: care to elaborate? :P |
| 16:36.44 | prpplague | agaffney: they show lots of low fares, but if you try to book one it gives you an error "the fare you have selected is no longer available" |
| 16:37.34 | solar | I would never book via AA directly. orbitz++ |
| 16:38.27 | solar | I've been searching flights for the past few days. got a few things I want to check out in new york and research triangle areas.. Saw some pretty low fairs via orbitz with AA |
| 16:38.38 | prpplague | i've had alot of problems with orbitz for international travel |
| 16:39.01 | solar | oh, yeah I've never used it for intl flights |
| 16:39.17 | agaffney | prpplague: lame |
| 16:42.20 | prpplague | checks orbitz |
| 17:06.00 | prpplague | kergoth: greetings |
| 17:51.51 | ds2 | the aa site worked fine in mozilla/linux last month |
| 17:53.09 | prpplague | ds2: still does, thats not what i'm complaining about |
| 18:09.17 | prpplague | g1powermac: ping |
| 18:14.14 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_PB (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 18:14.21 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: ping |
| 18:15.26 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague, pong |
| 18:16.09 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague, I have not yet gotten further with the quickbooks sdk |
| 18:17.19 | *** part/#edev adyer (n=adyer@adsl-69-223-13-78.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 18:21.27 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: no, no, i was gonna ask if you had a url for the VOIP phone you were hacking |
| 18:21.38 | g1powermac_PB | oh |
| 18:21.47 | g1powermac_PB | umm |
| 18:22.00 | g1powermac_PB | I forgot what the model number of it was |
| 18:22.08 | g1powermac_PB | I did have a page up on the elinux wiki |
| 18:22.16 | prpplague | oh ok, i'll look there |
| 18:22.56 | g1powermac_PB | http://www.elinux.org/SMC_WSKP100 |
| 18:23.54 | *** join/#edev T0mW (n=Tom@24.115.147.8.res-cmts.tv13.ptd.net) |
| 18:26.17 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: thanks |
| 18:26.48 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: wonder if they still sell it |
| 18:27.45 | g1powermac_PB | ya welcome |
| 18:27.47 | g1powermac_PB | hmm, not sure |
| 18:27.55 | prpplague | yea looks like they still do |
| 18:28.06 | g1powermac_PB | ahh |
| 18:28.12 | g1powermac_PB | thinking of hacking it? |
| 18:28.35 | prpplague | yea i was thinking that might be interesting to add a barcode scanner sled to |
| 18:28.51 | g1powermac_PB | oh, that'd be interesting |
| 18:28.59 | prpplague | the lcd is color? |
| 18:29.16 | g1powermac_PB | there is no documentation on the ports and stuff for the phone |
| 18:29.17 | g1powermac_PB | yea |
| 18:29.24 | g1powermac_PB | the lcd is quite nice actually |
| 18:29.28 | prpplague | yea i was looking at it |
| 18:29.50 | prpplague | there seems to be a usb port, is there something else? |
| 18:30.10 | g1powermac_PB | I think there is, hold on, lemme dig it out |
| 18:31.51 | g1powermac | ok, there is usb, headphones and two metal bars that looks like they would be used in a cradle for charging |
| 18:32.10 | prpplague | the lcd is touch screen? |
| 18:32.19 | prpplague | g1powermac: ahh |
| 18:32.52 | g1powermac_PB | no |
| 18:58.57 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@p57BD2C33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:05.14 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: yea, wouldn't be too bad, probably could do a sled for about $50 costs |
| 19:05.21 | prpplague | g1powermac: turn around and sell it for $200 |
| 19:08.42 | prpplague | g1powermac: did it have an internal uart connection? |
| 19:10.22 | prpplague | guess we'd have to get new fcc cert if i did an internal uart |
| 19:12.44 | prpplague | g1powermac: wow looks like there is enough room in the plastics to install a barcode scanner |
| 19:12.51 | *** join/#edev JohnnyL (i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 19:14.38 | *** join/#edev samrobb_ (n=samrobb@eng.arriad.com) |
| 19:16.57 | *** join/#edev ZeZu (n=null@c-24-14-8-40.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 19:23.15 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: ping |
| 19:24.54 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague, interesting |
| 19:25.09 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: hey can you check something for me |
| 19:25.21 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: can you measure how thick the battery is? |
| 19:25.21 | g1powermac_PB | I think someone may have found an internal uart, though I could be wrong |
| 19:25.26 | g1powermac_PB | sure |
| 19:25.27 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: yea it does |
| 19:25.34 | g1powermac_PB | hold on |
| 19:27.16 | g1powermac | 7mm thick |
| 19:30.48 | g1powermac | interesting, I plugged it into my imac and its recognized as 'OMAP1710' instead of the name of the phone |
| 19:30.57 | MothaWork | I guess that gives you a good idea of what proc is in it :) |
| 19:31.14 | g1powermac | huh, now thats interesting. . . |
| 19:31.34 | g1powermac | how in the world did this thing figure out the ssid of my wifi network when I'm not broadcasting the ssid |
| 19:31.55 | agaffney | anyone know what the path order is that the kernel tries when looking for init? |
| 19:32.09 | agaffney | and does it change for an initramfs? |
| 19:32.45 | prpplague | g1powermac: hmm, 7mm, it would be really tight |
| 19:33.00 | prpplague | g1powermac: but i think i could get a se-955 scan engine in ther |
| 19:33.03 | g1powermac | prpplague, it'd be nice to know where the jtag port is, I don't think anyone has figured that out yet |
| 19:33.05 | agaffney | basically, I want to have an initramfs that can just run /init (ash script) or run /init (ash script) which then runs /sbin/init (bb init) under certain circumstances |
| 19:33.27 | prpplague | g1powermac: *cough* send it to me, i'll find it |
| 19:33.41 | g1powermac | hehe, I figured you'd say that |
| 19:33.50 | g1powermac | I'll sell to you if you like |
| 19:34.19 | g1powermac | I got way too much stuff going on atm to play with this phone |
| 19:35.08 | prpplague | g1powermac: i'm totally broke, hehe, one more thing, what is the total thickness of the phone |
| 19:35.11 | prpplague | g1powermac: ? |
| 19:35.32 | g1powermac | hehe |
| 19:35.48 | g1powermac | looks to be about 18mm, its hard to tell with the curved edge of the back plate |
| 19:36.11 | prpplague | ahh |
| 19:36.38 | prpplague | the scan engine is 11.25mm , so it would be a really tight fit |
| 19:37.26 | prpplague | wonder if just adding the serial port to the top and making an external snap on |
| 19:37.45 | prpplague | g1powermac: the zipit sleds should be next tuesday |
| 19:38.07 | g1powermac | wow, you already made one? |
| 19:38.49 | prpplague | g1powermac: well its off to the SLA house now |
| 19:38.55 | g1powermac | nice |
| 19:39.32 | g1powermac | hah: http://news.slashdot.org/news/08/11/21/1644213.shtml |
| 19:39.46 | g1powermac | and double hah: http://news.slashdot.org/news/08/11/21/1849215.shtml |
| 19:40.22 | agaffney | g1powermac: nice |
| 19:40.48 | agaffney | hah, SCO still exists? |
| 19:41.09 | MothaWork | apparently enough of SCO exists to owe somebody else money |
| 19:46.55 | keesj | wow slashdot also still exists |
| 19:51.24 | agaffney | heh |
| 19:51.46 | keesj | it looks very web 2.0 |
| 19:53.20 | agaffney | keesj: it feels...wrong |
| 19:53.36 | agaffney | slashdot is *supposed* to be klunky and "web 1.0" |
| 19:53.42 | g1powermac_PB | hehe |
| 19:54.41 | g1powermac_PB | they should have an old version up for us people still stuck in "web 1.0" to use ;-) |
| 19:55.00 | g1powermac_PB | much prefers old web 1.0 sites over the newer ones :-) |
| 19:55.13 | prpplague | indeed as do i |
| 19:55.19 | agaffney | many sites just take "2.0" way too far |
| 19:55.34 | keesj | and it looks awfull when I use links as browser |
| 19:55.41 | g1powermac_PB | its annoying to use the newer sites on older machines |
| 19:55.45 | keesj | shame :p |
| 19:56.00 | g1powermac_PB | they load so slowly due to slow javascript engines |
| 19:56.24 | g1powermac_PB | hah, maybe not that old of a machine ;-) |
| 20:07.15 | MothaWork | g1powermac_PB: IIRC, there's still a "lite version" option |
| 20:41.30 | *** join/#edev davidc__ (n=davidc__@S01060002b360aacd.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 20:45.25 | samrobb_ | sees the news about SCO |
| 20:45.33 | samrobb_ | dances a happy little jig |
| 20:53.01 | *** join/#edev JohnnyL (i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 20:56.19 | *** part/#edev JohnnyL (i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:22.09 | *** join/#edev Ei5GTB_ (n=Paul@213-202-176-223.bas504.dsl.esat.net) |
| 21:23.23 | prpplague | lovely someone got android running on the freerunner |
| 21:23.47 | prpplague | too bad management didn't listen to me about the 8050, if we'd used the exact same hardware we would have it ready to go |
| 21:25.00 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 21:25.43 | *** join/#edev DyDisMe (n=it@69.61.230.246) |
| 21:47.25 | *** join/#edev landley (n=landley@cpe-70-116-30-223.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 21:47.26 | *** mode/#edev [+o landley] by ChanServ |
| 21:47.43 | landley | There is never a good time to have your laptop hard drive die. :P |
| 21:49.43 | g1powermac_PB | there is never a good time to have any hard drive die, unless of course its in a RAID that can easily handle the death :-) |
| 21:50.21 | landley | Yes, but it means I'm now coping with Ubuntu 8.10 sooner than I'd intended. |
| 21:50.41 | landley | I tried Kubuntu 8.10, and KDE 4 was enough to make me give up on KDE after 7 years. |
| 21:50.52 | landley | It's the Vista version of Linux. It's HORRIBLE. |
| 21:51.02 | g1powermac_PB | heh |
| 21:51.07 | MonMotha | landley: sadly, it's what people seem to want |
| 21:51.10 | MonMotha | oooh, shiny! |
| 21:51.10 | g1powermac_PB | prefers xfce |
| 21:51.14 | landley | I don't know how you screw some of that stuff up. |
| 21:51.21 | MonMotha | still runs FVWM |
| 21:51.25 | g1powermac_PB | nice |
| 21:51.42 | MonMotha | only because I've been hacking on my .fvwm2rc for years :) |
| 21:51.59 | landley | probably should have gone with xfce, but "Ubuntu" (the gnome version) is sort of the default. |
| 21:52.10 | MonMotha | I have a very boring desktop, but by golly, it's functional! |
| 21:52.12 | landley | I'd been hacking on my kde setup for 5 years or so, but none of it applied to kde 4. |
| 21:52.15 | g1powermac_PB | meh, I don't really ubuntu |
| 21:52.17 | g1powermac_PB | *like |
| 21:52.22 | MonMotha | I just run Debian |
| 21:52.22 | landley | There was no way to set a static IP through the GUI. It couldn't be done. |
| 21:52.27 | g1powermac_PB | MonMotha: same here |
| 21:52.35 | landley | won't touch raw debian. |
| 21:52.39 | landley | I don't want to get any of it on me. |
| 21:52.50 | g1powermac_PB | mmm, raw Debian is tasty :-) |
| 21:52.52 | MonMotha | what's so much better about Ubuntu? |
| 21:53.08 | landley | It must be filtered. Processed. Refined. Sterilized. Taken out and beaten with industrial torture machinery until it stops moving. |
| 21:53.34 | landley | MonMotha: never having to deal directly with the Debian developer community ever again, all by itself, would be worth a switch. |
| 21:53.51 | MonMotha | landley: you think I pay any attention to them? :) |
| 21:54.03 | g1powermac_PB | heh |
| 21:54.25 | landley | When I finally gave up on OS/2 and decided to sit down and make the darn thing work as my primary desktop in 1998, I tried Debian first. |
| 21:55.15 | landley | I didn't know what the "setserial" command was called, and my serial port was at a nonstandard IRQ and I was trying to install through the modem, so I asked a question on the debian mailing list. |
| 21:55.25 | landley | Ten years later, I still carry the scars. |
| 21:55.38 | landley | I will NEVER use raw debian. I want that project to die, and I'm kind of sad ubuntu is feeding stuff upstream. |
| 21:56.08 | g1powermac_PB | you do realize quite a few of the ubuntu devs were debian devs, right? |
| 21:56.22 | g1powermac_PB | they were bought over |
| 21:56.27 | g1powermac_PB | when ubuntu was started |
| 21:56.58 | landley | Were. |
| 21:56.59 | landley | Past tense. |
| 21:57.09 | landley | That's the important part. |
| 21:57.10 | g1powermac_PB | it was quite a big shake down of the debian community when shuttleworth started ubuntu |
| 21:57.19 | landley | Good. |
| 21:57.26 | g1powermac_PB | yea, but the people you dealt with could be the same people who are in ubuntu |
| 21:58.11 | landley | Not all of them. |
| 21:58.29 | landley | And they now report to people who can issue smackdown and don't put up with perpetual infighting and "hunt the newbie" as a recreational activity. |
| 21:58.46 | landley | People who WANT new users and don't say they'd rather see the project die than become popular. |
| 21:58.47 | g1powermac_PB | of course, but just making a point that both projects have a mix of the original devs |
| 21:59.18 | landley | g1powermac_PB: and the US rocket program was started by ex-nazi scientists. Von Brown and co. |
| 21:59.21 | landley | Your point? |
| 21:59.31 | landley | (Attempting to skirt godwin's law there. :) |
| 21:59.37 | g1powermac_PB | heh |
| 21:59.49 | g1powermac_PB | just saying you may deal with the same people :-) |
| 21:59.50 | landley | Oddly enough, using them as a _positive_ example of rehabilitation. |
| 22:00.12 | landley | g1powermac_PB: haven't had to so far, and I've been using it for almost 4 years now. |
| 22:00.33 | g1powermac_PB | ahh |
| 22:00.59 | *** join/#edev DyDisMe (n=it@69.61.230.246) |
| 22:01.32 | g1powermac_PB | anyway, I won't use ubuntu for reasons of shuttleworth's actions of when he started ubuntu |
| 22:01.50 | *** join/#edev Ian_Daniher|XO (n=it@69.61.230.246) |
| 22:01.51 | g1powermac_PB | I was a dev for a small debian livecd at the time |
| 22:02.11 | landley | shrugs. |
| 22:02.23 | landley | Go for it. My lack of caring is large and all-encompasing on this issue. |
| 22:02.31 | g1powermac_PB | shuttleworth approached the head of the project at the time and tried to buy him and the livecd without consulting all the devs |
| 22:03.36 | landley | Well, he could just fork the livecd without asking, and you don't buy people you hire them. |
| 22:03.57 | landley | But I see you're point, FreeBSD had its developers hired away by MacOS X, Linux is "different". |
| 22:04.23 | g1powermac_PB | of course, thats what was eventually done, but I didn't like the gesture |
| 22:07.27 | landley | g1powermac_PB: he should have done his own fork and ignored the existing developers completely? Ok, seems kind of a strange position to take... |
| 22:07.48 | landley | Or he should have had you guys vote on who he should hire with his own money? |
| 22:08.41 | prpplague | landley: hey hey |
| 22:08.43 | g1powermac_PB | actually, what he wanted was to hire the head dev and have him merge the livecd with ubuntu completely |
| 22:08.44 | prpplague | landley: you alive? |
| 22:09.32 | g1powermac_PB | the rest of the remaining devs could have forked the project at that point, but the main livecd project would have been merged with ubuntu |
| 22:12.37 | g1powermac_PB | so yea, if he just hired the head dev and have him fork the livecd for ubuntu, that would have been fine (actually thats what happened after the head dev refused to merge the projects) |
| 22:14.48 | prpplague | ~lart landley |
| 22:14.48 | purl | does a little 'renice 20 -u landley' |
| 22:14.58 | g1powermac_PB | heh |
| 22:15.44 | landley | prpplague: alive. Laptop hard drive died. |
| 22:19.11 | landley | Is there an email client other than kmail that knows how to run a prefetch command when you click "get mail", then look at an mbox file? |
| 22:19.28 | landley | This doesn't seem like brain surgery, but evolution, thunderbird, and sylpheed all can't do it. |
| 22:19.33 | landley | It just never OCCURRED to them, or something... |
| 22:23.14 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 22:24.53 | g1powermac_PB | hmm |
| 22:25.13 | g1powermac_PB | thinks the economy is really going to crash this year |
| 22:25.26 | g1powermac_PB | beyond what we're seeing now |
| 22:25.39 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: as do i |
| 22:26.09 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague, the real question is how bad is it going to get |
| 22:26.20 | *** join/#edev JoeLlama (n=snork@unaffiliated/joellama) |
| 22:26.47 | landley | Well, GM deserves to go under. Dunno anything current about Ford, and I can never remember the third. (Isn't chevy another name for GM?) |
| 22:26.50 | g1powermac_PB | I wonder if we're going to see it get worse than the great depression |
| 22:26.55 | landley | The elephant in the room is credit card debt. |
| 22:26.57 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: i'm betting on it being just like that movie "The Postman" |
| 22:26.58 | *** join/#edev chouimat|away (n=dieu@r2351064.cidc.net) |
| 22:26.58 | landley | g1powermac_PB: nah. |
| 22:27.17 | landley | There's trillions in outstanding credit card debt. Defaults on that would get ugly. |
| 22:27.25 | g1powermac_PB | landley: the big is the national debt held by other countries |
| 22:27.26 | prpplague | landley: crystler |
| 22:27.38 | landley | prpplague: chrystler? They still exist? |
| 22:27.43 | g1powermac_PB | if they feel our debt is risky and bail out, we're screwed |
| 22:27.55 | landley | g1powermac_PB: they can't. |
| 22:28.06 | g1powermac_PB | how so? |
| 22:28.08 | landley | China's exposure to US debt is to the point where they can't pull their money out without losing most of it. |
| 22:28.26 | landley | It would trash their economy. |
| 22:28.35 | landley | It would take them about a decade of us being _healthy_ to divest it. |
| 22:28.35 | g1powermac_PB | thats just china |
| 22:28.48 | landley | g1powermac_PB: china's big these days. |
| 22:28.54 | g1powermac_PB | japan and the middle east also hold a good chunk of our debt |
| 22:29.48 | g1powermac_PB | btw, if GM goes under, our state is really going to feel it |
| 22:29.52 | prpplague | imho the US has become nothing more than consumers, no producers, and as such will eventually run out of $$ to purchase with, hence the current credit crunch, people have borrowed and borrowed |
| 22:30.12 | g1powermac_PB | KY is the second largest car manufacturing state in the US |
| 22:30.26 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague, exactly |
| 22:30.44 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague, that sounds like it came right out of Peter Schiff's mouth :-) |
| 22:32.17 | landley | prpplague: you're oversimplifying tremendously, to the point of serious inaccuracy. |
| 22:32.26 | landley | We make _data_. |
| 22:32.27 | prpplague | the america i grew up with is gone and has been for atleast decade |
| 22:32.29 | landley | Sells for rather a lot. |
| 22:32.49 | prpplague | landley: that is true right now, but we are slowly not doing that either |
| 22:32.50 | landley | hands prpplague a walking stick. |
| 22:32.58 | landley | Practice smacking your gums and telling kids to get off your lawn. |
| 22:33.03 | g1powermac_PB | but thats nothing compared to the amount of physical crap we buy |
| 22:33.05 | prpplague | landley: indeed |
| 22:33.14 | g1powermac_PB | that isn't produced in this country |
| 22:33.29 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: doesn't have to be physical |
| 22:33.50 | landley | You do realize that 100 years ago people were making exactly this argument about everybody moving to the cities and leaving the farms, and how it would doom us all because there was no "real" (agricultural) economy anymore and we'd all starve... |
| 22:33.54 | g1powermac_PB | plus the IP we make is having issues with piracy and lower legal prices else where in the world |
| 22:33.57 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: even intellectual production in the use has declined |
| 22:34.14 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague, very true |
| 22:34.18 | landley | Yeah, being an industrial rather than agrarian nation really screwed us over during World War II... |
| 22:34.39 | g1powermac_PB | landley: thats mainly because we innovated ways to produce more food with less farmers |
| 22:34.50 | g1powermac_PB | and eventually imported food from other nations too |
| 22:35.04 | landley | Yes, technological advance. |
| 22:35.09 | prpplague | landley: yes, similar statement, but with one thing, the general population is not moving towards the technology development that you use in the analogy as moving to the "city" |
| 22:35.13 | landley | Which these days involves computers, the internet, data... |
| 22:35.19 | g1powermac_PB | its somewhat scary the amount of food we eat here isn't even grown in this country |
| 22:35.20 | landley | Heck, genetic engineering is binary data. |
| 22:36.03 | prpplague | landley: again that is true, but if only 1% of the population is educated enough to perform those jobs...... |
| 22:36.21 | g1powermac_PB | yea |
| 22:36.28 | landley | prpplague: no, you're getting confused about living in cities vs being able to _build_ cities. |
| 22:36.40 | landley | The majority of the US is on the internet. |
| 22:37.13 | prpplague | not sure how that applies |
| 22:37.19 | landley | They're not architecting it, but they're living there. (Maybe only through dialup in a lot of the rural areas still, but we haven't had a tenesee valley authority for network access yet.) |
| 22:37.36 | landley | Living in city == I can connect and browse/email/chat. |
| 22:37.48 | landley | Building city (architect, construction work) = I can program. |
| 22:38.00 | landley | Or be an electronics engineer/chip designer. |
| 22:38.07 | prpplague | how does that equate to the ability to produce usuable commerce? |
| 22:38.50 | g1powermac_PB | yea, but that same logic can be applied to outsourcing of the IP anyway |
| 22:39.06 | landley | Back when I was writing investment columns last decade, I got paid to send email. |
| 22:39.15 | g1powermac_PB | if someone can program here in the US, they can program out in India and be paid less than half |
| 22:39.29 | landley | g1powermac_PB: It turns out that trend already burned its way through. |
| 22:39.38 | landley | The people in india now make almost as much as we do. |
| 22:39.43 | prpplague | landley: to what end? i mean why were you paid to send email? |
| 22:39.58 | landley | Paying good people pennies on the dollar was a transitional phenomenon: prices there got bid up just like they did here years ago. |
| 22:40.09 | g1powermac_PB | landley: they'll just go to another cheaper region |
| 22:40.16 | landley | prpplague: because they wanted the columns I was writing and the analysis I was doing. |
| 22:40.26 | landley | g1powermac_PB: where people don't speak english? |
| 22:40.37 | landley | India had a large number of educated english speakers, due to the british raj. |
| 22:40.40 | prpplague | landley: ahh but you were educated enough to produce a product worth purchasing |
| 22:40.59 | landley | prpplague: sure. But I was self-taught. |
| 22:41.22 | prpplague | landley: do you really think that the majority of assembly workers at a GM plant have the education and/or ability product IP ? |
| 22:41.24 | landley | Those were investment columns: I never had a finance degree and only a minor in english. |
| 22:41.29 | prpplague | s/product/produce |
| 22:41.35 | landley | prpplague: if they did, they wouldn't be working assembly at a GM plant. |
| 22:41.43 | landley | There's a certain amount of self-selection there. |
| 22:42.12 | prpplague | exactly, now here is the problem, if the US economy is to be IP driven, they the workforce needs to be capable |
| 22:42.22 | prpplague | s/they/then |
| 22:42.22 | landley | It took me a couple years of hanging around investment circles doing hobbyist analysis before anybody wanted to pay me for it, and they started out paying me peanuts and worked up from there. |
| 22:42.44 | landley | But it only took about 3 years for me to meet my monthly expenses doing it. |
| 22:42.55 | landley | That's less time than college takes. |
| 22:43.06 | landley | prpplague: we have an enormous transition problem, sure. |
| 22:43.19 | landley | Legacy industries being phased out leave lots of workers with obsolete skills in need of retraining. |
| 22:43.23 | landley | Since when is this a new problem? |
| 22:43.26 | prpplague | the current culture in the US does not push for or support education, in fact most aspects of US make fun of those who work to be educated |
| 22:43.35 | landley | This has been true about every 25 years since the country was founded. |
| 22:43.47 | landley | prpplague: that's a legacy of the shrub administration. |
| 22:43.51 | landley | The edumacation president. |
| 22:44.08 | landley | Obama's big into education. He likes people to be as smart as possible. |
| 22:44.39 | prpplague | landley: i don't believe that it has anything to do with bush, this cultural issue has been building since the early sixties |
| 22:44.48 | landley | It has everything to do with bush. |
| 22:44.49 | g1powermac_PB | yea |
| 22:44.58 | landley | Whether he's a cause or a symptom, he was at the center of it. |
| 22:45.01 | g1powermac_PB | plus I think obama is too late |
| 22:45.03 | g1powermac_PB | at this point |
| 22:45.20 | landley | g1powermac_PB: and FDR was too late in the great depression, and lincoln was too late in the civil war. |
| 22:45.21 | landley | So? |
| 22:45.28 | prpplague | landley: i don't disagree that he contributed, but its been building since the sixties |
| 22:45.43 | g1powermac_PB | landley: personally, I think FDR extended the depression |
| 22:45.45 | landley | prpplague: no, the GI bill and sputnik artificially inflated it. |
| 22:45.49 | g1powermac_PB | with some of his policies |
| 22:46.13 | prpplague | landley: can you explain that? |
| 22:46.18 | landley | GI bill used college dorms as emergency housing to handle zillions of returning veterans after world war II while the construction people frantically built "suburbia" to house them. |
| 22:46.26 | landley | In the process, they all got college degrees. |
| 22:46.49 | landley | Then sputnik scared the HELL out of the country because suddenly our line of fighter plans blocking the borders couldn'ts top a nuke from falling out of the sky _anywhere_. |
| 22:47.15 | landley | So we had a space race. |
| 22:47.48 | prpplague | landley: how does that promote the lack of tolerance for those who are educated? |
| 22:47.51 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@pool-96-225-210-142.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:48.20 | landley | answers phone... |
| 22:48.36 | prpplague | hehe |
| 22:49.39 | ds2 | we must localize and be individual self sustaining cells |
| 22:49.44 | ds2 | anything else is doomed |
| 22:51.18 | prpplague | my whole point is that if we are to be a culture that is primarily to produce IP , our culture has to respect the educated, and currently it does not |
| 22:51.40 | prpplague | public school teachers are some of the lowest paid workers in the united states |
| 22:56.53 | g1powermac_PB | ds2: exactly |
| 22:57.21 | ds2 | the result of public schools aren't exactly 'educated' |
| 22:57.25 | g1powermac_PB | gets out the survival kit and high powered rifle ;-) |
| 22:58.07 | ds2 | if they want to be better pay, they need to produce better instead of squealing about lack of funding |
| 22:58.48 | ds2 | computers, calculators, new books that say the same thing are just squadering funds. go back to real teaching. start with scratch paper, learn the math, be able to do it then and only then use automation |
| 23:00.03 | prpplague | ds2: again my point is not the actual methods its the attitude |
| 23:00.19 | prpplague | has to go |
| 23:00.29 | prpplague | 5pm friday they close the office |
| 23:00.33 | ds2 | later |
| 23:00.35 | prpplague | later folks |
| 23:00.53 | prpplague | landley: we _shall_ continue this discussion later!!! hehehe |
| 23:19.55 | *** join/#edev purl (i=ibot@rikers.org) |
| 23:19.55 | *** topic/#edev is a channel for the discussion of embedded linux on small consumer electronic devices, mostly ARM based; Hammer Development boards as well as Nail Boards are now available at http://www.tincantools.com/ |
| 23:39.01 | *** join/#edev KazaLite (n=kazaLite@116.58.8.130) |
| 23:43.08 | *** join/#edev roxfan2 (n=dunno@243.45-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
