| 00:00.13 | MonMotha | there is one toll road in Indiana |
| 00:00.15 | g1powermac_PB | yup |
| 00:00.17 | MonMotha | we call it "the toll road" |
| 00:00.31 | ds2 | 90/94 one of the more expensive roads to travel |
| 00:00.34 | g1powermac_PB | there were supposedly toll roads here, but they're all gone now |
| 00:00.34 | MonMotha | aka I-80/I-90 |
| 00:00.51 | ds2 | 94 splits off before it gets to IN? |
| 00:01.30 | L_Deluxe | I'd have to look at a map. I've lived in either NC or TN for over a decade. The old knowledge fades. |
| 00:02.04 | ds2 | IN/OH parts of I90 do have well built out rest stops compared to out west |
| 00:02.17 | MonMotha | it might also be I-94 now that I think about it |
| 00:02.20 | MonMotha | I'd have to call up google maps |
| 00:02.28 | g1powermac_PB | was in indiana a few days ago |
| 00:02.36 | ds2 | impossible to get lost or exit in the wrong direction after a rest/fuel stop |
| 00:02.48 | g1powermac_PB | stopped at a local walmart and was shocked at what they sell right off the shelf |
| 00:03.08 | L_Deluxe | Hmm? |
| 00:03.10 | MonMotha | looks like it is never simultaneously I-80, I-90, and I-94 |
| 00:03.21 | MonMotha | over near IL it is I-80/I-94, but through most of the state it is I-80/I-90 |
| 00:03.32 | g1powermac_PB | hard liquor right off the shelf, and very powerful rifles and weapons |
| 00:03.33 | ds2 | from Chicago it is 90/94... |
| 00:03.56 | ds2 | Dan Ryan, IIRC |
| 00:03.56 | MonMotha | actually, I guess the toll road follows 90, not 80 |
| 00:03.56 | L_Deluxe | Oh yeah. You can get liquor in drugstores in Chicagoland, too. |
| 00:03.58 | L_Deluxe | Or at least could in the 70s/80s. |
| 00:04.11 | MonMotha | according to Google, 90 and 94 don't merge until you're well into Chicagoland |
| 00:04.25 | MonMotha | but it is the Dan Ryan, yes |
| 00:04.28 | ds2 | yeah, 90/94 merges in the northside of chicago |
| 00:04.29 | g1powermac_PB | you can get some liquors here, but the hard stuff has to be put in its own room |
| 00:04.38 | ds2 | north of the 290/Congress Parkway thing IIRC |
| 00:04.47 | ds2 | (or 294?) |
| 00:04.59 | g1powermac_PB | prolly because we have some blue laws still in effect here in this state |
| 00:05.32 | g1powermac_PB | actually, liquor laws here are quite insane now that I think about it |
| 00:05.46 | L_Deluxe | In NC, you have to go to a special ABC store. There are no liquor stores. At least here we have liquor stores. Not that I drink much. Too expensive. |
| 00:05.58 | g1powermac_PB | each county and/or town can choose whether its dry, wet, or my favorite, moist |
| 00:06.15 | L_Deluxe | Anything to do with prohibition is insane. Liquor laws are just a holdover from that mindset. |
| 00:06.23 | g1powermac_PB | moist meaning you can get liquor in restaurants but no stores can carry it |
| 00:06.27 | L_Deluxe | Ha! |
| 00:06.45 | g1powermac_PB | which to me makes no sense |
| 00:06.55 | g1powermac_PB | that just encourages drunk driving |
| 00:07.20 | L_Deluxe | There was some state where you could only buy liquor in those little airline-sized bottles. At least in drinking establishments. The excuse for that was portion control. To keep customers from getting short-changed. |
| 00:07.23 | g1powermac_PB | oh wait. . .I forgot what this county does |
| 00:07.41 | L_Deluxe | I don't know if they've fixed that now or not. |
| 00:07.53 | g1powermac_PB | in the county you can get liquor from stores, but you can't get hard liquor from restaurants, only beer and wine |
| 00:08.03 | g1powermac_PB | but thats only in the county |
| 00:08.12 | g1powermac_PB | if you live in the city limits, you can get it all |
| 00:08.22 | L_Deluxe | Do bars count as restaurants, or do they avoid that limitation? |
| 00:08.32 | g1powermac_PB | bars count |
| 00:08.42 | L_Deluxe | Figures. |
| 00:08.50 | g1powermac_PB | there was a big fight over it with a newly opened bar a year or so ago |
| 00:09.10 | g1powermac_PB | it was just outside the city limits |
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| 00:09.34 | g1powermac_PB | and was only allowed to serve wine and beer (which, btw, you don't even need a license for!) |
| 00:09.41 | L_Deluxe | People and their insistence on controlling what other people who they don't know do. |
| 00:10.10 | L_Deluxe | Which always leads back to prohibition. And theocracy. |
| 00:10.20 | g1powermac_PB | this state is one weird state when it comes to things |
| 00:10.31 | g1powermac_PB | though at least they keep alot of the laws as local as possible |
| 00:10.44 | g1powermac_PB | which at least when its local, you have a shot to fight it |
| 00:11.09 | L_Deluxe | I suppose. Though even then, it's bound to be tough. There are politics locally as well. |
| 00:11.15 | g1powermac_PB | state and federal bans are tough to fight |
| 00:11.41 | L_Deluxe | Yup. Even states can't thwart the federal stuff. |
| 00:11.44 | g1powermac_PB | local laws, especially if you're influential, its a bit easier |
| 00:11.55 | L_Deluxe | Alas, I am nobody. |
| 00:12.00 | g1powermac_PB | or you tell them to just bugger off ;-) |
| 00:12.10 | g1powermac_PB | kinda like what we did. . . ;-) |
| 00:12.47 | g1powermac_PB | the city has weird sign ordinances, but they never really gave the enforcement officers any real power to enforce the ordinance |
| 00:13.22 | g1powermac_PB | so the few times they bugged us about a banner we have on our store, we told them to go away ;-) |
| 00:13.51 | g1powermac_PB | which has kinda lead the other stores in our center to follow suit. . . |
| 00:14.10 | L_Deluxe | Those are good until somebody gets a bug up their butt and decides to enforce stuff anyway. |
| 00:14.29 | L_Deluxe | Politicians and crusaders. |
| 00:15.12 | g1powermac_PB | yea |
| 00:15.22 | g1powermac_PB | though nothing has happened, which is good |
| 00:15.44 | L_Deluxe | Indeed. And hopefully nothing will. It's all about keeping off of people's radar, though. |
| 00:15.59 | das_plague | ho ho hum |
| 00:16.38 | das_plague | now can understand how anakin felt when he went to the dark side of the force |
| 00:17.05 | L_Deluxe | Yes? It was all those Jedi talking about blue laws, wasn't it. |
| 00:17.11 | ds2 | looks out for clones |
| 00:18.31 | g1powermac_PB | hahah |
| 00:20.24 | joe_bleau | I take it the power (cough) of wince is seducing you? |
| 00:20.46 | L_Deluxe | Eew. |
| 00:20.50 | das_plague | indeed |
| 00:21.10 | g1powermac_PB | nasty |
| 00:21.40 | g1powermac_PB | I think we need to get das_plague in an intervention quick ;-) |
| 00:22.09 | joe_bleau | Seen anything at all that you like about it yet? |
| 00:22.26 | das_plague | actually the build system is pretty darn nice |
| 00:22.32 | das_plague | there are some MS-isisms |
| 00:22.39 | das_plague | that i don't care for |
| 00:22.46 | das_plague | but other than that it is pretty decent |
| 00:23.03 | g1powermac_PB | L_Deluxe: oh one thing they started here recently, which is annoying, is enforcing seat belt laws |
| 00:23.30 | L_Deluxe | They've been doing that here for awhile. "Click it or ticket". Cop humor is never as funny as they think it is. |
| 00:23.36 | g1powermac_PB | L_Deluxe: before they couldn't pull you over if you weren't wearing a seat belt, they could only pull you over for other violations and tack it on |
| 00:24.02 | L_Deluxe | They have freakin' roadblock looking for people without a lap belt. |
| 00:24.09 | g1powermac_PB | now they can pull you over, but they can only slap you with a $25 ticket and they don't report it to the insurance company, which is good |
| 00:24.39 | L_Deluxe | I meant plural (roadblocks) and shoulder belt. |
| 00:24.54 | g1powermac_PB | got some first hand knowledge of it when my mom was pulled over and i was in the car with her |
| 00:25.14 | g1powermac_PB | it was hilarious, for me anyway, because I warned her about it not long before she was pulled over ;-) |
| 00:25.32 | L_Deluxe | I forget whether a driver gets ticketed for unbelted passengers. It might be a per-state thing. |
| 00:25.53 | L_Deluxe | I always wear my seatbelt, so it's more or less a non-issue for me. |
| 00:25.56 | g1powermac_PB | not sure here, I had the belt on |
| 00:26.39 | L_Deluxe | I don't need a law to tell me to wear it, though. The law is for the insurance companies. |
| 00:26.46 | g1powermac_PB | but it was like minutes before she was pulled over that I told her that she may want to put the belt on. . .I couldn't stop laughing ;-) |
| 00:27.04 | L_Deluxe | That, indeed, is some precious timing. |
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| 00:28.20 | g1powermac_PB | but yea, it's an old habit for me to put the belt on, i could be just moving the car and its like a reflex |
| 00:28.44 | L_Deluxe | Yup. It became law in IL right about the time I started driving. It's habit. |
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| 00:29.13 | L_Deluxe | It's also just a good idea. |
| 00:29.22 | g1powermac_PB | yea |
| 00:29.32 | g1powermac_PB | oh dear |
| 00:29.38 | g1powermac_PB | http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/kentucky |
| 00:30.04 | L_Deluxe | Geez. Now I have to look at TN. |
| 00:30.15 | joe_bleau | I've got a 2GB CF card with a minimal debian install in my ALIX. Think there's enough space to mess with buildroot? |
| 00:31.07 | g1powermac_PB | heh, you should read the NJ laws |
| 00:31.18 | g1powermac_PB | the classic one of all is that you can't pump your own gas :-) |
| 00:31.32 | L_Deluxe | I've at least heard of that one. |
| 00:31.42 | g1powermac_PB | thats right, every gas station in NJ has attendants that will pump your gas for you |
| 00:31.57 | g1powermac_PB | which was friekin nice, dang it ;-) |
| 00:32.09 | L_Deluxe | Something about it being too dangerous to pump one's own gas. Ostensibly. |
| 00:32.20 | g1powermac_PB | should campaign to make that a national law, dang it! ;-) |
| 00:32.38 | L_Deluxe | Full service used to be the norm. It was expensive, though. |
| 00:32.56 | g1powermac_PB | Obama might like it too, it'll create new jobs :-) |
| 00:33.26 | L_Deluxe | That kind of job creation, we don't need. There are plenty of legitimate opportunities. |
| 00:33.48 | g1powermac_PB | meh, his plan for fixing roads and bridges isn't much better |
| 00:33.54 | L_Deluxe | Those that remove choice should not be the low-hanging fruit. |
| 00:34.28 | L_Deluxe | There are some bridges that are badly in need of some fixing. Our infrastructure has been allowed to get dangerously into disrepair. |
| 00:34.28 | g1powermac_PB | huh, "The third Thursday of October is designated as ?New Jersey Credit Union Day? and citizens of the state should observe the day with ?appropriate activities and programs?." never heard of that one. . . |
| 00:35.44 | g1powermac_PB | heh, thats great: "It is illegal to wear a bullet-proof vest while committing a murder." |
| 00:36.01 | L_Deluxe | Because murder wasn't already illegal enough. |
| 00:36.07 | g1powermac_PB | yup |
| 00:36.42 | L_Deluxe | They at least try to explain the gas pumping thing. http://www.dumblaws.com/law/686 |
| 00:36.42 | solar | everybody knows if you must commit a murder. it's best to get really drunk and then smash the person with a car. It's only 3 years vs 20 years that way. |
| 00:36.45 | g1powermac_PB | here's one of those laws from the past that really need to be repealed: "It is against the law for a man to knit during the fishing season." |
| 00:37.04 | L_Deluxe | We have one about hunting whales from a vehicle. |
| 00:37.18 | g1powermac_PB | hah It is against the law to ?frown? at a police officer. |
| 00:37.23 | L_Deluxe | I was close. You canât shoot any game other than whales from a moving automobile. |
| 00:37.36 | L_Deluxe | I'm in trouble, then. That's my standard cop facial expression. |
| 00:37.49 | g1powermac_PB | don't go to NJ then |
| 00:38.00 | g1powermac_PB | oh yea, You may not slurp your soup either |
| 00:38.05 | L_Deluxe | Dang. |
| 00:38.12 | L_Deluxe | It is illegal to use a lasso to catch a fish. |
| 00:38.16 | g1powermac_PB | and it is illegal to delay or detain a homing pigeon. |
| 00:38.34 | L_Deluxe | What am I to do for hobbies, then? |
| 00:38.56 | L_Deluxe | Driving is not to be done while asleep..... Really? |
| 00:39.03 | g1powermac_PB | oh and if you decide to move to Blairstown, NJ, you may not plant a tree that 'obscures' the air. . . |
| 00:39.17 | L_Deluxe | Oh, and this one is actually recent. It is legal to gather and consume roadkill. They actually made a law for that. |
| 00:39.27 | g1powermac_PB | hah, nice |
| 00:39.38 | L_Deluxe | All trees displace the air. I don't know how you'd obscure it, though. |
| 00:40.09 | g1powermac_PB | is depressed, KY has such few dumb laws |
| 00:40.17 | g1powermac_PB | I was counting on some good ones |
| 00:40.39 | L_Deluxe | You can have some of mine. |
| 00:41.06 | g1powermac_PB | though the ban on fishing with a bow and arrow is interesting. . . |
| 00:41.20 | L_Deluxe | What about the lasso? |
| 00:41.37 | g1powermac_PB | they really need to ban the other redneck fishing methods. . .like the shot gun and tnt |
| 00:42.22 | g1powermac_PB | nothing about lassos |
| 00:42.33 | L_Deluxe | They cover that with "You canât shoot any game other than whales from a moving automobile." It does leave a loophole for dropping TNT from yer pickup truck, though. |
| 00:42.59 | g1powermac_PB | oh, and in Fort Thomas, KY, you dog may not molest a car. . . |
| 00:43.07 | g1powermac_PB | i like to know how they define that. . . |
| 00:43.29 | L_Deluxe | The sad thing is there's some sort of reason for each of them. |
| 00:43.42 | L_Deluxe | Either it happened or somebody was indignant that it might. |
| 00:43.47 | L_Deluxe | Either way. Sad. |
| 00:43.48 | g1powermac_PB | yea |
| 00:44.20 | L_Deluxe | Laws have been passed for no other reason than it was hot that day and everybody wanted to go home. |
| 00:44.30 | CosmicPenguin | I always like to think about it like this - for every law, then at least two people must have committed it before it was outlawed |
| 00:44.45 | g1powermac_PB | hah, and I thought the drivers in NJ were just being mean: "All motorists must honk before passing another car, bicyclist, skater, and even a skateboarder." |
| 00:46.03 | g1powermac_PB | L_Deluxe: heh, the whale law in TN is really quite funny |
| 00:46.22 | g1powermac_PB | considering the landlock nature of the state ;-) |
| 00:46.33 | L_Deluxe | What with us being landlocked and all. Sure, there are some lakes, but nothing large enough to harbor whales. |
| 00:47.14 | g1powermac_PB | hmm, banning ministers from the state legislature, that actually sounds reasonable |
| 00:47.50 | L_Deluxe | Yeah. I'm not used to reasonable from our laws. The rationale isn't the right one, but hey. |
| 00:48.41 | L_Deluxe | We're the buckle of the Bible Belt. I wouldn't expect ostensible separation of Church and State here. |
| 00:48.42 | g1powermac_PB | man, TN has some weird laws |
| 00:49.11 | g1powermac_PB | better not steal a horse ;-) |
| 00:49.33 | g1powermac_PB | I'd figure a law like that would be enacted here in KY, being we raise so many horses. . . |
| 00:49.49 | L_Deluxe | Ok. I won't. I'll mend my ways. |
| 00:49.59 | g1powermac_PB | hah, ?Crimes against nature? are prohibited. |
| 00:50.11 | g1powermac_PB | what exactly is "Crimes against nature". . . |
| 00:50.12 | L_Deluxe | Yeah. Then, just to make sure, they outlaw oral. |
| 00:50.20 | g1powermac_PB | yea |
| 00:50.39 | L_Deluxe | Crimes against nature is anything other than het sex strictly for procreation in wedlock. Anything else is crimes against nature. |
| 00:50.47 | g1powermac_PB | and you can't have seven female children and your wife living in the same house ;-) |
| 00:50.54 | L_Deluxe | Brothel. |
| 00:50.58 | g1powermac_PB | though that may actually be a good thing. . . |
| 00:51.28 | L_Deluxe | In Alabama, you can't have 6 dildoes (or maybe it's over 6), because that means you have intent to distribute. |
| 00:51.39 | g1powermac_PB | heh |
| 00:51.53 | L_Deluxe | I don't know if that's on the web site, though. I've lost that. |
| 00:52.42 | L_Deluxe | Found it. It's not. But it's real. |
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| 00:53.28 | g1powermac_PB | man, KY just doesn't compare to its neighboring states in stupid laws |
| 00:53.33 | g1powermac_PB | check out indiana's |
| 00:54.01 | g1powermac_PB | you may not bath between october and march in indiana ;-) |
| 00:54.03 | L_Deluxe | I would, but my better half has come home from work and I should spend time with her. |
| 00:54.15 | g1powermac_PB | ahh |
| 00:54.20 | L_Deluxe | Now that's just a downright curious law right there. |
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| 00:54.35 | L_Deluxe | I suppose one circumvents that one with showers. |
| 00:54.38 | g1powermac_PB | oh dear: "A man over the age of 18 may be arrested for statutory rape if the passenger in his car is not wearing her socks and shoes, and is under the age of 17." |
| 00:55.12 | L_Deluxe | That's pretty wrong. |
| 00:55.25 | g1powermac_PB | hmm, this makes up for that: "You can get out of paying for a dependent?s medical care by praying for him/her." |
| 00:55.41 | L_Deluxe | Who pays for it, then? |
| 00:55.43 | g1powermac_PB | free health care for your kids, heck yea! |
| 00:56.11 | g1powermac_PB | good question |
| 00:56.24 | L_Deluxe | It's not often the government offers to foot the bill. |
| 00:56.40 | g1powermac_PB | this easily fixed: "One man may not back into a parking spot becasue it prevents police officers from seeing the license plate." |
| 00:56.55 | g1powermac_PB | put a second plate on the car, dang it. . . |
| 00:57.02 | L_Deluxe | IL does exactly that. |
| 00:57.09 | L_Deluxe | Or at least did when I lived there. |
| 00:57.16 | g1powermac_PB | so does any state in the northeast |
| 00:57.29 | g1powermac_PB | not till I moved out here did I see these one plate systems |
| 00:58.02 | L_Deluxe | Sorry to be abrupt, but I do have to boogie. Good night. |
| 00:58.02 | g1powermac_PB | the best ones out here is that you can stick anything in the front of the car out here |
| 00:58.08 | g1powermac_PB | even your old plates |
| 00:58.20 | g1powermac_PB | it's gotta mess up out of state cops when you travel |
| 00:58.24 | L_Deluxe | Interesting. I just leave mine blank. |
| 00:58.35 | g1powermac_PB | especially two plate states |
| 00:59.05 | g1powermac_PB | so the front will have one license number, and the back will have another |
| 00:59.30 | g1powermac_PB | (they also let you keep your old plates too) |
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| 01:01.19 | g1powermac_PB | hmm, the value of Pi in Indiana is 3. . .that could explain things |
| 01:02.21 | g1powermac_PB | oh my. . . . .It is illegal to get a fish drunk in Ohio |
| 01:03.11 | g1powermac_PB | hmm, you also can't be arrested on a sunday or the fourth of july in Ohio. . . |
| 01:03.18 | g1powermac_PB | anyone willing to test that? ;-) |
| 01:06.36 | g1powermac_PB | oh dear, in Huntington, WV, it is legal to beat your wife so long as it is done in public on Sunday, on the courthouse steps. |
| 01:07.35 | g1powermac_PB | huh, and you can't speak English in IL |
| 01:13.27 | g1powermac_PB | hahahah, in PA, you may not catch a fish by any body part except the mouth. |
| 01:15.26 | g1powermac_PB | in Ridley Park, PA, you cannot walk backwards eating peanuts in front of the Barnstormers Auditorium during a performance. |
| 01:15.31 | g1powermac_PB | now thats insanely specific |
| 01:17.31 | g1powermac_PB | wow, huh, another city in NY has that exact same law, minus the specified auditorium |
| 01:29.00 | MonMotha | g1powermac_PB: no, even worse, they tried to make the value of pi in IN 4 |
| 01:29.08 | MonMotha | yes, FOUR...they can't even round correctly |
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| 03:54.33 | g1powermac_PB | MonMotha: thats just, well, umm, amazing |
| 03:58.20 | MonMotha | they seem to have gotten better |
| 03:58.41 | MonMotha | Indianapolis is actually quite up on that sort of thing. Lots of biotech stuff. |
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| 14:38.53 | prpplague | scanlime: ping |
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| 15:22.55 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 15:23.04 | prpplague | really wish there was an irc channel for wince dev |
| 15:23.43 | CosmicPenguin | They really aren't the IRC type |
| 15:23.51 | CosmicPenguin | most of the wince guys I know do MSN IM |
| 15:29.24 | prpplague | yea |
| 15:29.36 | prpplague | that is consistant with what i have found |
| 15:30.01 | prpplague | really surprised how snotty the bsquare people are |
| 15:31.19 | CosmicPenguin | Its an act |
| 15:35.49 | CosmicPenguin | Most of the guys I know are pretty cool |
| 15:35.52 | CosmicPenguin | just not used to our world |
| 15:38.47 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: that was my guess, but i really didn't like their sales people at all |
| 15:41.13 | CosmicPenguin | Do you like any sales people at all, anywhere? |
| 15:41.13 | CosmicPenguin | Because I don't |
| 15:41.13 | prpplague | some i do |
| 15:41.19 | Crofton | I like ones that buy me beer |
| 15:41.52 | prpplague | but the thing is, compared to A2E and Adeneo, bsquared's attitude and prices are way out of line |
| 15:42.31 | CosmicPenguin | Sale people don't talk to me, and for good reason |
| 15:42.37 | CosmicPenguin | i can't buy anything, and I'm a dick |
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| 17:14.47 | *** topic/#edev is a channel for the discussion of embedded linux on small consumer electronic devices, mostly ARM based; Hammer Development boards as well as Nail Boards are now available at http://www.tincantools.com/ |
| 17:14.54 | drasko_ | to observe what is happening for study purposes |
| 17:15.59 | prpplague | drasko_: i doubt it as generally when you are compiling in asm, you generally don't have an OS involved, or if you do it is on a very low layer |
| 17:18.48 | drasko_ | huh... But for example, if you have a program just transfering from one register to another, it has no purpose running it, unless you are able to observe contents of the registers changing, step by step. This book is free and seems to be very popular. And I am looking for a way to have assembler and debugger/simulator to try examples. |
| 17:19.33 | prpplague | drasko_: sorry i do not understand what you are trying to accomplish |
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| 17:22.19 | drasko_ | well, if you google with "arm assembly programming language" the first hit will be this book in pdf. If you look inside, you will realize that they are using Windows environment as the practice material. I am looking for a similar environment under Linux. |
| 17:22.40 | mnemoc | i think he wants to see the ASM execution visually |
| 17:23.05 | drasko_ | mnemoc, not needed |
| 17:23.17 | drasko_ | gdb printing register is OK |
| 17:23.49 | drasko_ | but that's "visually"already |
| 17:25.42 | prpplague | drasko_: you need to execute the code either on a emulator like qemu or on actual hardware |
| 17:27.10 | drasko_ | prpplague, there is a way to execute it on GDB arm versatile simulator |
| 17:27.48 | prpplague | yes i believe so |
| 17:28.54 | drasko_ | hmm... But I still do not get how will arm-linux- assemble examples with assembler instructions like AREA, TTL, ENTRY, END and so on... |
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| 17:40.18 | sunrunner20 | guys the styrafoam plate speaker is supringly good lol |
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| 17:53.38 | sunrunner20 | man, I think the FET that drives my rear speakers died |
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| 18:18.35 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 18:18.39 | prpplague | are we having fun yet? |
| 18:18.48 | CosmicPenguin | absolutely |
| 18:19.13 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: u gatta Jay Oh Bee yeat? |
| 18:19.26 | chouimat|work | should had stayed home this morning |
| 18:19.32 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: yep |
| 18:20.47 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: oh? |
| 18:22.48 | prpplague | ~seen sorphine |
| 18:22.50 | purl | prpplague: i haven't seen 'sorphine' |
| 18:22.52 | prpplague | ~seen sorphin |
| 18:22.52 | purl | sorphin <n=dans@adsl-70-135-18-86.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #edev, 30d 19m 33s ago, saying: 'yay. hugh'. |
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| 19:16.55 | prpplague | kergoth: ping |
| 19:17.01 | kergoth | prpplague: pong |
| 19:18.17 | prpplague | kergoth: hey, quick question, i did an OE build with thumb support enabled, i want to do another build with it disabled, will i have to rebuild everything, or is there a bitbake command to rebuild just the items that are affected |
| 19:19.20 | kergoth | unless the thumb state is in the stamp filenames, it wont know whether it needs to be rebuilt. i'm not sure how thumb is handled in OpenEmbedded currently, so i couldn't say. is it just a separate variable, or is it in TARGET_OS or something? |
| 19:19.34 | prpplague | http://git.openembedded.net/?p=openembedded.git;a=commitdiff;h=8d2f8e65e01ea07335c3d172866d1ccbd10ebdcc |
| 19:19.42 | prpplague | basically i need to undo that |
| 19:23.14 | kergoth | hmm, okay, tune-thumb.inc has it adding the appropriate flags to TARGET_CC_ARCH, and adding its stuff to OVERRIDES for the instruction set & interwork. the thumb setting isnt in the os or any other variable which is in the stamps, so it wont know to rebuild stuff on its own |
| 19:25.31 | prpplague | bummer which means i have to rebuild everything |
| 19:25.59 | prpplague | kergoth: so i should do: bitbake -c rebuild gpe-image |
| 19:26.01 | prpplague | correct? |
| 19:26.09 | prpplague | that will force a complete rebuild? |
| 19:26.23 | kergoth | rebuild operates against what you ask it to operate against |
| 19:26.26 | kergoth | not all the deps |
| 19:26.42 | prpplague | ahh |
| 19:26.54 | prpplague | ok, so how is the best way? just delete the tmp dir? |
| 19:27.02 | kergoth | most likely, yes |
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| 19:30.20 | prpplague | kergoth: fun fun, looks like it will be monday before i have my answer :( |
| 19:33.52 | Crofton | prpplague, create a branch and work against it |
| 19:34.06 | prpplague | Crofton: ?? |
| 19:34.33 | Crofton | make a branch of the metadata so nothing changes, then cherry pick changes in .dev |
| 19:35.51 | prpplague | Crofton: sorry i'm not following you, are you suggesting i have two branches, one doing the build for non-thumb, while i just use the thumb version ? |
| 19:41.57 | Crofton | no, just work against a private branch |
| 19:42.06 | Crofton | so the meta-data is stable |
| 19:42.11 | Crofton | you are in control |
| 19:42.13 | prpplague | oh, i am |
| 19:42.24 | Crofton | then, you decide when to take the time hit |
| 19:42.26 | Crofton | ah |
| 19:42.26 | Crofton | ok |
| 19:42.44 | prpplague | yea, i'm totally disconnected from the main oe stuff |
| 19:43.39 | prpplague | Crofton: i was mainly whinning about having to do a complete rebuild |
| 19:43.48 | Crofton | heh |
| 19:44.02 | Crofton | whine all you want |
| 19:44.19 | prpplague | why thank you, i will, it is what i do the best |
| 19:44.20 | Crofton | if you did that without OE, it would have been more painful :) |
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| 20:32.53 | CosmicPenguin | hmmm - my cat is too bold |
| 20:33.00 | CosmicPenguin | she just crawled right up on my shoulder |
| 20:33.58 | kergoth | hehe |
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| 21:15.34 | RobotGuy | CosmicPenguin: She owns you. |
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| 21:42.05 | coalado | Hi |
| 21:42.33 | coalado | Anyone in here i can ask some questions about "how to programm ARM based hardware"? |
| 21:45.31 | mnemoc | coalado: there is people that can, just ask and wait for feedback :) |
| 21:46.38 | coalado | I will. |
| 21:46.51 | coalado | it's hard to get started somewhere |
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| 22:09.39 | MonMotha | coalado: really, just ask. That is such a broad topic that any number of people in here could be the person you are seeking |
| 22:10.12 | coalado | ah.. i forgott to ask ;-P sorry |
| 22:10.37 | coalado | I'm triying to get " a feet in ther door" |
| 22:10.46 | coalado | atm I do not know here to start |
| 22:11.02 | coalado | A want to use a AVR at91* |
| 22:11.31 | coalado | And until now. I only coded on 8 bit MCUs |
| 22:11.57 | coalado | I'm looking for some tips on "how to start" |
| 22:12.01 | MonMotha | are you looking at AVR32 or AT91 ARM? |
| 22:12.14 | coalado | at91 ARM |
| 22:12.22 | MonMotha | ok, those aren't AVRs |
| 22:12.28 | MonMotha | though they are made by Atmel |
| 22:12.28 | coalado | ah sorry |
| 22:12.39 | coalado | atmel AT81 ARM |
| 22:12.55 | MonMotha | and what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Do you want to design a device from scratch? Are you trying to "hack" on an existing device? |
| 22:13.06 | MonMotha | Do you want a dev board so you can jump in and write software? |
| 22:13.10 | coalado | a new device from scratch |
| 22:13.32 | coalado | a already have a dev port |
| 22:13.33 | MonMotha | OK. That's a pretty big undertaking, but certainly doable. |
| 22:14.09 | coalado | The first step would be to know the best way to programm/debug |
| 22:18.05 | coalado | I need an jtag adapter and a server like openocd. |
| 22:18.08 | coalado | is this right? |
| 22:19.22 | MonMotha | would be a good idea, yes |
| 22:21.48 | prpplague | and a large bottle of your favorite headache pain reliever |
| 22:21.53 | coalado | I googled a lot.. And it seems that openocd is a little.. complicated |
| 22:22.06 | coalado | prpplague: hrhr |
| 22:22.54 | prpplague | coalado: openocd isn't that complicated, really most people only need to upload bootloaders and occasionally for some register testing |
| 22:25.53 | coalado | ok.. I think my jtag adapter should be finished by tomorrow..so I can start next week :) |
| 22:30.50 | prpplague | coalado: not good to start off with unknown hardware such as a homebrew jtag device |
| 22:31.02 | mnemoc | prpplague: do you recommend any (up-to-date) openocd tutorial? |
| 22:31.40 | prpplague | mnemoc: there are a number of them on the elinux.org wiki |
| 22:32.00 | mnemoc | prpplague: ok, it was just to confirm :p |
| 22:32.11 | coalado | prpplague: i'd like to use a openocd-usb jtag adapter... |
| 22:32.18 | mnemoc | that they are still recommended I mean |
| 22:32.21 | coalado | I hope this works fine |
| 22:33.27 | prpplague | mnemoc: yea, there are a few others out there, we have a doc on the tincantools website for setting up the flyswatter and usage |
| 22:34.15 | MonMotha | can the ARM OCD stuff talk to AVR32? |
| 22:34.20 | MonMotha | I thought you needed a JTAGICE mk2 for that |
| 22:35.03 | coalado | I don't think that you can use jtag ice mk2 for ARMs |
| 22:35.13 | MonMotha | you can't |
| 22:35.27 | MonMotha | oh wait, was he doing AT91? |
| 22:35.36 | MonMotha | I guess so |
| 22:35.39 | MonMotha | I was thinking he wanted AVR32 for some reason |
| 22:35.57 | mnemoc | prpplague: I thought openocd had changed a lot after that was written |
| 22:36.06 | MonMotha | yes, the standard OpenOCD compatible ARM JTAG thingies will work fine on AT91 |
| 22:36.13 | MonMotha | what MCU are you looking at? |
| 22:36.14 | prpplague | mnemoc: yea, it is going through a transition now |
| 22:36.28 | coalado | AT91 |
| 22:36.28 | MonMotha | 91SAM926x? |
| 22:36.30 | prpplague | mnemoc: but the stable releases that are posted work pretty much the same |
| 22:36.49 | mnemoc | prpplague: cool, thanks :) |
| 22:37.11 | MonMotha | coalado: but which one? |
| 22:37.19 | coalado | MonMotha: mom.. I have to check. |
| 22:37.24 | prpplague | landley: hey bud |
| 22:37.26 | MonMotha | Atmel has a bunch of parts in the AT91 family ranging from ARM7TDMI to ARM926 |
| 22:37.28 | prpplague | landley: long time no see |
| 22:37.34 | prpplague | landley: how goes things? |
| 22:37.41 | MonMotha | they are apparently working on some ARM11 and/or Cortex A8 stuff |
| 22:37.54 | MonMotha | IIRC there are also plans to move from ARM7TDMI to Cortex M3 |
| 22:38.16 | landley | prpplague: hiya. |
| 22:38.21 | landley | I'm pissed at the SFLC. |
| 22:38.37 | landley | They've filed another Mepis-style landmine suit on behalf of the Free Software Foundation. |
| 22:38.54 | coalado | AT91SAM7X256 as far as I remember |
| 22:39.01 | prpplague | landley: the cisco suit? |
| 22:39.14 | MonMotha | coalado: oh, that's just ARM7TDMI |
| 22:39.25 | MonMotha | lots of features, but make sure you read the errata |
| 22:39.28 | MonMotha | it's a pretty quirky micro |
| 22:39.28 | mnemoc | landley: cisco's? |
| 22:40.12 | prpplague | landley: my dealing with SFLC didn't leave me feeling warm and fuzzy |
| 22:40.59 | prpplague | landley: or are you refering to the "linux defenders" program |
| 22:41.27 | coalado | MonMotha: i need can, usb, uart... |
| 22:41.36 | MonMotha | well, it's got those |
| 22:41.49 | MonMotha | just be sure you read the errata section at the end |
| 22:41.49 | prpplague | scanlime: ping |
| 22:41.52 | MonMotha | there are some major gotchas |
| 22:42.01 | coalado | good to know |
| 22:42.07 | landley | prpplague: http://www.softwarefreedom.org/news/2008/dec/11/cisco-lawsuit/ |
| 22:42.33 | MonMotha | I think the SAM7S series also has those if you want lower cost, lower pin count, and don't require ethernet |
| 22:43.25 | prpplague | landley: yea i read a little about that this morning |
| 22:43.32 | coalado | MonMotha: I do not realy have to care about cost |
| 22:44.22 | prpplague | coalado: if you aren't concerned about cost, you should invest in a solid, known-working jtag interface adapter |
| 22:44.28 | MonMotha | no kidding |
| 22:44.41 | MonMotha | the cheapie FTDI based ones seem to be slow and easily confused |
| 22:44.44 | MonMotha | at least the Olimex ones are |
| 22:44.50 | landley | prpplague: check http://landley.net/notes.html and follow the link to december 5. |
| 22:45.04 | coalado | prpplague: can you advise one? |
| 22:45.12 | MonMotha | spend the $700-2000 on a good one like a BDI-2000 |
| 22:45.47 | prpplague | coalado: http://www.tincantools.com the flyswatter, but i'm biased |
| 22:46.23 | MonMotha | prpplague: is the flyswatter appreciably more reliable than the Olimex ones? |
| 22:46.30 | MonMotha | my experience is that those are very easy to confuse |
| 22:46.34 | coalado | 49 $ |
| 22:46.36 | MonMotha | though it may just be OpenOCD |
| 22:46.49 | coalado | this cdannot be much more than openocd |
| 22:47.30 | roxfan | openocd is software, not a dongle... |
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| 22:47.38 | coalado | oocdlink |
| 22:47.41 | coalado | <<dongle |
| 22:47.42 | roxfan | ah |
| 22:47.48 | coalado | openocd-usb <<dongle , too |
| 22:47.48 | prpplague | landley: oh crude |
| 22:48.10 | prpplague | landley: man o man that does put a cramp on things |
| 22:49.45 | prpplague | landley: if the cisco stuff does ever come to fruition(sp?), i hope you can recommend *cough* some good embedded linux developers to help out |
| 22:50.53 | prpplague | "The old Linux build system is something broadcom came up" |
| 22:50.57 | prpplague | points to sjhill |
| 22:52.10 | MonMotha | is there such a thing as a GOOD embedded linux build system? |
| 22:52.19 | coalado | thx guys for your tips |
| 22:52.49 | coalado | I now will try to get my self-made jtag adapter running with my olimex ev-board |
| 22:55.43 | prpplague | MonMotha: hehe maybe not, but nearly every build system i can name, either the original authors are in this channel, or have been part of #elinux/#tuxscreen over the last 12 years |
| 22:56.01 | roxfan | coalado: what did you make it from? |
| 22:56.32 | MonMotha | prpplague: pretty much, and they don't all suck by any means (most of them do generate usable outputs). It's just a matter of all the ins and outs |
| 22:56.50 | prpplague | indeed |
| 22:58.01 | landley | MonMotha: yeah, Firmware Linux is a good build system. |
| 22:58.11 | prpplague | landley: my experience with SFLC made me wonder if SFLC was really interested in defending OSS, or simply cutting out a niche market for letigation |
| 22:58.15 | landley | And I was -><- this close to convincing them to rebase all their router builds on top of it, with gentoo embedded for the native build part. |
| 22:58.29 | prpplague | landley: wow nice |
| 22:58.39 | landley | The SFLC just threw a wrench in this. I am pissed. |
| 22:58.49 | prpplague | wonders how landley hooks up with so many big shots |
| 22:58.54 | landley | I'm going away from the computer to calm down a bit... |
| 22:59.05 | landley | It might still be salvageable. |
| 22:59.13 | prpplague | landley: np, heading to the house soon, i'll be online there |
| 22:59.27 | landley | I just have to convince the Cisco guys that the FSF is insane and most of the rest of the open source community hates them. |
| 22:59.38 | landley | If the SFLC wasn't involved it'd be trivial. THEY are the group I'm disappointed in. |
| 23:00.01 | prpplague | landley: indeed |
| 23:00.20 | MonMotha | landley: given that many people in the OSS community DO think the FSF is insane, that task should at least be possible |
| 23:01.52 | prpplague | landley: getting cisco/linksys to migrate to firmware linux would be a nice feather in your cap |
| 23:03.05 | mnemoc | landley: knowing you were in "conversations" with cisco, didn't SFLC tell you anything before making this step? |
| 23:11.16 | prpplague | mnemoc: SFLC is under no obligation to discuss it with landley |
| 23:11.25 | prpplague | mnemoc: as the client is FSF not landley |
| 23:11.35 | prpplague | mnemoc: they could have said there was a conflict of interest |
| 23:11.42 | prpplague | mnemoc: but i doubt they would |
| 23:16.29 | mnemoc | :( |
| 23:18.20 | mnemoc | I assumed there were somehow closer tights considering they work with free software projects and they have "some" busybox stuff in common :\ |
| 23:19.07 | mnemoc | s/stuff/causes/ (?) my english sucks |
| 23:19.40 | prpplague | mnemoc: they are lawyers, what did you expect? |
| 23:19.43 | prpplague | heads home |
| 23:19.47 | mnemoc | true :/ |
| 23:21.42 | coalado | (23:49:25) roxfan: coalado: what did you make it from? << i found a schematic from openocd-usb adapter and one for oocd link adapter and combined them |
| 23:22.04 | roxfan | ftdi chip? |
| 23:22.07 | coalado | yes |
| 23:22.13 | coalado | ft 2232 |
| 23:22.36 | roxfan | should work then :) |
| 23:22.52 | coalado | but i'm not sure.. |
| 23:23.11 | coalado | I have to programm the adapter before using it to fit my needs.. do i? |
| 23:23.18 | roxfan | not really |
| 23:24.38 | roxfan | well, you might want to set a descriptive usb device name |
| 23:24.46 | roxfan | so that openocd can find it |
| 23:25.17 | coalado | I will have to edit the openocd cfg files anyway |
| 23:25.47 | roxfan | yes, to set the layout |
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