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| 04:51.27 | ruan | hi friends i need your help |
| 05:03.35 | ds2 | If I have said it before, I'll say it again... Firefox blows chunks\ |
| 05:03.49 | ds2 | damn focus stealing behavior is just unacceptable |
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| 11:21.23 | goldie83 | someone playing with tslib from svn? |
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| 20:13.55 | landley | In 2.6.27, the linux kernel's "make headers_install" was rewritten in perl. |
| 20:14.07 | landley | Congratulations, guys. None of you spoke out against it when the build started requiring perl in 2.6.25. |
| 20:14.16 | landley | None of you bothered to ack my patches to remove it on linux-kernel. |
| 20:14.20 | landley | And now you're stuck with it. |
| 20:17.03 | mnemoc | :( |
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| 20:31.15 | ds2 | *heart* perl |
| 20:31.17 | ds2 | ;) |
| 20:33.45 | RobotGuy | I've never cared for PERL. |
| 20:33.58 | RobotGuy | I prefer Python. :) |
| 20:36.56 | landley | I'm against adding more environmental dependencies. |
| 20:37.32 | landley | The kconfig infrastructure shipped pregenerated versions of the lex/yacc stuff they used to avoid depending on that. |
| 20:37.51 | landley | But that philosophy is dead now, and nobody but me spoke up on the kernel list against it. |
| 20:40.44 | ds2 | don't completely disagree with you but it could have been worse ;) |
| 20:41.21 | ds2 | the worse thing I see with this is native compiles on minimal systems could be nasty since perl does not x-compile nicely |
| 20:45.37 | landley | ds2: I can natively build perl in the new environment, the problem is I can't restrict the host environment anymore. |
| 20:45.54 | landley | "Plus perl" means "you've completely lost track of what you need on the host, it could pull in cpan for all you know." |
| 20:50.25 | landley | (Give the kernel developers time...) |
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| 21:01.55 | ds2 | I can fully agree with the CPAN argument |
| 21:02.17 | ds2 | are they requiring modules beyond straigh perl (i.e. modules) |
| 21:09.03 | mnemoc | microperl may be enough today, but it certainly opens the door to cpan-deps |
| 21:12.40 | landley | mnemoc: perl is pretty much the dictionary definition of the camel's nose under the tent flap. |
| 21:13.19 | landley | I have now, _twice_ come up with a patch to remove perl use from the build. I posted the first to linux-kernel and the second to the embedded@vger.kernel.org list. |
| 21:13.25 | landley | And nobody but me cared, apparently. |
| 21:16.01 | mnemoc | the timeconst.h patch? |
| 21:17.27 | mnemoc | i never imagined that would let the door open to start writting perfectly maintainable code into perl :( |
| 21:26.21 | mnemoc | rewritting* |
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| 21:51.17 | landley | mnemoc: they're not done yet. |
| 21:51.37 | landley | The Sam Ravnborg has talked about rewriting the _whole_of_kbuild_ in perl. |
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| 22:29.46 | ds2 | as long as it is self contained perl without any modules... |
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| 22:39.11 | landley | "As long as we can all agree on which subset of perl we use, it's a manageable language". |
| 22:39.11 | landley | Where have I heard that before... |
| 22:39.26 | landley | Did you _look_ at the timeconst.pl implementation? |
| 22:39.54 | landley | If we have cpan, do this. If we don't, block copy the output results so 2/3 of the file is defining big static perl structures generated by running the rest of the perl program. |
| 22:40.25 | landley | Why not just cache the generated .h file instead of cacheing pregenerated perl used to generate that .h file? Because that wouldn't insinuate perl into the kernel to be used as a precedent! |
| 22:50.27 | mnemoc | landley: may you please mail to linux-embedded@vger.kernel.org again about this? I'm sure you will find the necessary support to erradicate perl there |
| 22:51.33 | mnemoc | it has grown a lot the last months |
| 23:15.11 | ds2 | things has a tendancy of changing for the worse... you remove perl, then suddenly python pops up... much rather have a partially manageable beast in there then to have an unmanageable total crap in there |
| 23:23.23 | landley | mnemoc: I might try one more time to eradicate perl, and if so I'll email the list. |
| 23:23.55 | landley | All I did was stick linux-0.9.27 into my current build scripts as the "alt" version and remove the patches that didn't apply. |
| 23:24.10 | landley | The build _breaks_ if it tries to use something that's not in the $PATH, so I can track the build dependencies. |
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| 23:24.41 | landley | I don't know why other cross compile systems don't bother to do this. (I don't know how they expect to work reliably, other than brute force number of eyeballs playing bug whack-a-mole...) |
| 23:27.38 | ds2 | O*wack*E*wack* ;) |