| 00:07.46 | prpplague | ho ho ho merry freakin friday night |
| 00:07.54 | prpplague | hates friday night |
| 00:09.10 | joe_bleau | Me too. Sucks not going to bed early and heading in to work in the morning. |
| 00:15.43 | miknix | me too.. everybody going out and me staying at home working :( |
| 00:39.00 | prpplague | solar: hehe this is for you d00d - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP2sFsqpSm4&feature=related |
| 00:39.23 | joe_bleau | Y'all still on that? |
| 00:46.09 | ke7yut | Rhianna is hot. |
| 00:47.09 | prpplague | hehe |
| 00:47.13 | prpplague | ke7yut: i guess you passed |
| 00:47.37 | prpplague | ke7yut: she's my wife's cousin |
| 00:47.42 | ke7yut | Yes, I passed the test last Sunday and got my callsign Friday. |
| 00:47.50 | prpplague | (of course everyone on the island is a cousin) |
| 00:47.59 | prpplague | ke7yut: congrads |
| 00:48.03 | ke7yut | Thanks. |
| 00:48.13 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 00:48.22 | ke7yut | I am hoping to merge ham radio with robotics at some point. |
| 00:49.01 | prpplague | a channel for the discussion of embedded linux on small consumer electronic devices, mostly ARM based; Congrads to Robotguy on HAM radio test certification |
| 00:49.01 | ke7yut | I have full operating privledges on ham bands 50 MHz and up. |
| 00:49.26 | *** topic/#edev by prpplague -> a channel for the discussion of embedded linux on small consumer electronic devices, mostly ARM based; Congrads to Robotguy on HAM radio test certification |
| 00:49.36 | ke7yut | Wow. :) |
| 00:50.12 | ke7yut | Barbados women are so hot, even without the hot weather. :) |
| 00:50.28 | prpplague | hehe |
| 00:50.51 | prpplague | you are telling me? |
| 00:51.01 | ke7yut | I know you already know. :) |
| 00:51.16 | ke7yut | I'm just agreeing. :D |
| 00:51.50 | prpplague | hehe |
| 00:52.58 | ke7yut | I have a weakness for somewhat exotic women. |
| 00:55.39 | ke7yut | I need to find a recent arm-elf-gcc toolchain. |
| 00:56.13 | ke7yut | Something for ARM7 like the NXP LPC2148. |
| 00:57.37 | ke7yut | looks to see if he still has landley's toolchain. |
| 00:59.12 | ke7yut | Dang, I don't have it. |
| 00:59.42 | ke7yut | prpplague: Will the CodeSourcery ARM lite toolchain work for ARM7? |
| 01:00.28 | prpplague | should |
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| 01:01.00 | ke7yut | Cool, I have that toolchain installed. :) |
| 01:01.38 | ke7yut | I decided to just not worry about IDEs, since I have Kate (KDE Edito) that does syntax highlighting. I'll learn Makefiles as I go. |
| 01:02.09 | prpplague | hates friday night |
| 01:02.38 | ke7yut | Why are Friday nights not good? |
| 01:09.22 | joe_bleau | ke7yut: I've used the CS arm toolchain for arm7 microcontrollers. I'm using the EABI variant. |
| 01:10.07 | joe_bleau | My usual timing, I see. |
| 01:20.44 | prpplague | joe_bleau: doh |
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| 01:46.29 | Mirell | Hmm.. |
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| 11:57.04 | mnemoc | hi, sorry for my ignorance but what does one do when a board has a 10pin jtag to connect to something like the Flyswatter which expects 14pin ? |
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| 12:23.42 | mnemoc | ignore the last 4 pins or use the serial uart interface of the Flyswatter and a cable specific to the board? |
| 12:25.45 | LetoThe2nd | i would check the pinout and then solder a specific adapter cable. |
| 12:26.53 | mnemoc | LetoThe2nd: so when they have 10 pins they "just" left some out and there is no logic difference beyond wireing? |
| 12:28.39 | LetoThe2nd | mnemoc, this is what you have to check. the standard 20p-jtag for example has about 10 GND pins. check the pinout of the board, check the pinout of your programmer and then rewire an adapter accordingle. |
| 12:29.19 | mnemoc | LetoThe2nd: thanks :) |
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| 18:44.42 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 18:45.03 | prpplague | lordy i wish there was a channel for wince dev |
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| 19:29.17 | joe_bleau | #WINCE channel on the Undernet IRC |
| 19:29.17 | joe_bleau | #WINCE channel on the Undernet IRC? |
| 19:30.10 | joe_bleau | I would guess usenet would be a pretty popular place for wince devs. |
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| 20:06.27 | prpplague | joe_bleau: there one on undernet? |
| 20:06.33 | prpplague | goes to check |
| 20:06.47 | prpplague | joe_bleau: doesn't seem many of the wince dev folks like irc |
| 20:06.56 | prpplague | joe_bleau: or even know about it |
| 20:09.01 | prpplague | no #EINCE |
| 20:09.05 | prpplague | no #WINCE |
| 20:11.36 | prpplague | that is something that always attracted me to the OSS world, the easy flow of information which allows to learn and build on previous experience |
| 20:11.50 | prpplague | the who ms world is about secrets and black magic |
| 20:11.55 | prpplague | s/who/whole |
| 20:15.56 | joe_bleau | I suspect usenet is your answer. |
| 20:23.39 | *** join/#edev Ian_Daniher|XO (n=it@69.61.230.246) |
| 20:25.46 | prpplague | joe_bleau: been up and down the irc networks |
| 20:25.57 | prpplague | joe_bleau: nothing to be found, or atleast on face value |
| 20:26.33 | prpplague | joe_bleau: did find channel with a friendly barrister that needed my help in transfering $100,000USD to the US |
| 20:35.09 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Are you still planning to work on the Arduino/ARM/Hammer project at some point? |
| 20:35.23 | RobotGuy | Hee hee ARM & Hammer. :D:D |
| 20:37.15 | roxfan | why not use official support? i hear it's pretty good |
| 20:38.00 | RobotGuy | roxfan: What do you mean? |
| 20:38.12 | roxfan | for win ce |
| 20:38.33 | RobotGuy | OH, you weren't writing that to me, sorry. |
| 20:45.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no, that is dead along with 99% of hammer dev |
| 20:45.59 | prpplague | RobotGuy: unless tincantools pays me, i have other things to do |
| 20:48.50 | prpplague | roxfan: the official support doesn't seem to answer the questions i have |
| 20:49.00 | roxfan | hmm |
| 20:49.08 | prpplague | roxfan: i've used two of my free support calls, and i've gotten nothing from them |
| 20:49.22 | roxfan | that sucks |
| 20:49.59 | RobotGuy | That kind of sucks for Hammer development, doesn't it? |
| 20:50.24 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'm sure rusty will find someone |
| 20:50.32 | RobotGuy | Even versions of software in Buildroot have gone beyone what can be built now. |
| 20:51.00 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Are you no longer interested in doing anything with Hammer? |
| 20:51.07 | prpplague | RobotGuy: thats what you need tod ownload the specific versions |
| 20:51.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i am no longer interested in doing anything for free |
| 20:51.28 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That is no longer possible in some cases now. |
| 20:52.14 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the cd has all working versions on it |
| 20:52.38 | RobotGuy | sighs |
| 20:52.41 | prpplague | i ran a complete build on friday |
| 20:53.33 | prpplague | RobotGuy: for your needs you need something that has more documents and more hand-holding that we can provide for free |
| 20:55.02 | RobotGuy | I don't think I need the level of "hand holding" you think I need. I just don't like being stuck with old versions of software that don't have the features I need. Case in point is Python. |
| 20:55.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, if you were going to recommend an embedded processor for me, at my current experience level, what would you recommend? |
| 20:55.37 | prpplague | RobotGuy: which is my point, python was something never intended to run on the hammer |
| 20:56.34 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i'm not going to recommend anything, but you might view this article http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2619037348.html |
| 20:56.41 | RobotGuy | I don't want to give up on Hammer, but I am frustrated at not being able to do what I want to do with it and that people like you don't seem to understand why I need what I need. |
| 20:58.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, i can feel the frustration, but i can't help you from my end, i only have experience working with certain areas of embedded systems |
| 20:59.33 | RobotGuy | prpplague: However, working with Arduino now, I am getting back into working with C (and minimal C++ features), so strictly speaking I would not necessarily need Python. |
| 21:00.38 | RobotGuy | I've already written a new Servo library based on the current Servo library. |
| 21:00.45 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i only have so many hours in the days, and my first priority is earning money for my family, and the hammer doesn't earn me any |
| 21:01.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I understand that and the need to be paid for your efforts. You're an extremely talented guy and deserve to be properly compensated for your work and need to support your family. |
| 21:02.39 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Can you PM me a number I can reach Rusty at? |
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| 21:10.02 | prpplague | ~lart davidc__ |
| 21:10.02 | purl | farts in davidc__'s general direction |
| 21:10.08 | prpplague | oh good one |
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| 21:11.43 | prpplague | ~lart Mirell |
| 21:11.43 | purl | throws a AN/M-8 smoke grenade at Mirell |
| 21:11.47 | Mirell | Wah? |
| 21:11.50 | Mirell | 'allo |
| 21:12.04 | prpplague | Mirell: hehe, just lart'n everyone that joins |
| 21:12.10 | prpplague | bored |
| 21:12.20 | Mirell | I decided to abuse the Busybox server as my irssi/screen combination |
| 21:12.26 | Mirell | Since my home connection is flaky |
| 21:12.59 | Mirell | In other news, got a new job! |
| 21:13.09 | prpplague | Mirell: woot |
| 21:13.23 | Mirell | Doing embedded Linux for Cisco Linksys-branded products |
| 21:13.32 | prpplague | Mirell: must be nice to put your degree to use and peform the job as waste disposal engineer |
| 21:13.37 | Mirell | Hehe |
| 21:14.35 | Mirell | My current job tried to give me a 50% raise to stay |
| 21:15.01 | Mirell | Made me feel kind of valued, but I hate that place. |
| 21:15.44 | RobotGuy | Mirell: Hi |
| 21:16.03 | Mirell | 'allo RobotGuy! |
| 21:16.51 | prpplague | Mirell: hehe |
| 21:17.04 | prpplague | Mirell: holy cow, cisco? |
| 21:17.15 | prpplague | Mirell: landley give you some help? |
| 21:18.31 | Mirell | prpplague: Indeed |
| 21:19.37 | Mirell | It's going to be fun, we basically have to redo their entire build system and duplicate existing product firmwares until we can show it can be used for new stuff |
| 21:20.17 | mnemoc | using landley's tool? |
| 21:20.23 | Mirell | Hopefully. |
| 21:20.32 | mnemoc | nice :) |
| 21:20.34 | Mirell | I'm not really sure how much more I can say, |
| 21:20.43 | Mirell | But Cisco is doing a big Linux drive. |
| 21:20.58 | Mirell | Even despite the FSF lawsuit, |
| 21:21.01 | Mirell | Which was just stupid. |
| 21:21.33 | mnemoc | i was fearing that lawsuit would stop their move |
| 21:21.56 | Mirell | They have too much invested in Linux, |
| 21:22.11 | Mirell | And it merely is getting them to do non-FSF stuff |
| 21:22.17 | Mirell | uclibc instead of glibc is a first step |
| 21:22.44 | prpplague | Mirell: argh |
| 21:22.50 | Mirell | prpplague: Hmm? |
| 21:22.56 | prpplague | is hurt that landley didn't call him as well |
| 21:23.05 | Mirell | Hehe |
| 21:23.20 | Mirell | prpplague: Well, Impact Linux is starting out now with this |
| 21:23.41 | mnemoc | prpplague: ask him, i guess there is more room :) |
| 21:24.00 | prpplague | Mirell: yea, i figured as much |
| 21:28.40 | ke7yut | prpplague: That S3C2440 based dev system you linked me looks very interesting. |
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| 21:29.45 | ke7yut | They have just the board with 7" LCD available also. |
| 21:30.44 | prpplague | Mirell: next time you see landley, please give him a kick in knees and tell him it is from das plague |
| 21:31.16 | prpplague | hehe |
| 21:36.32 | Mirell | prpplague: Sure thing, heh. |
| 21:36.35 | mnemoc | ke7yut: in ebay there is a seller from .cn giving the 7" for US$ 190+15 and the 3.5" for US$ 125+15 |
| 21:37.34 | mnemoc | interestely the picture from linuxdevices got "friendly" erased from the board where the one at ebays says "friendlyarm" |
| 21:38.14 | prpplague | Mirell: question - have you ever met Fade? |
| 21:38.23 | Mirell | prpplague: Um, yes. |
| 21:38.32 | Mirell | prpplague: I've known landley for...five, six years? |
| 21:38.39 | ke7yut | mnemoc: Is that for display only? If it is, that's way too much. |
| 21:38.49 | mnemoc | ke7yut: nah, the compelte kit |
| 21:38.56 | Mirell | prpplague: I knew him before, during the dating of Fade, engagement, and wedding |
| 21:39.02 | prpplague | Mirell: ahh interesting |
| 21:39.13 | Mirell | prpplague: So yah, I've met her quite a number of times. ^^ |
| 21:39.36 | prpplague | Mirell: i've know landley for awhile on irc, so i was totally curious about Fade's personality |
| 21:39.41 | Mirell | prpplague: Ahh |
| 21:39.58 | Mirell | She is an Internet addict. |
| 21:40.05 | prpplague | Mirell: he writes very affectionitly about her in his blogs |
| 21:40.05 | Mirell | I think that sums up a lot. |
| 21:40.10 | Mirell | Well, heh. |
| 21:40.17 | ke7yut | mnemoc: Do you have a link for that? |
| 21:40.18 | Mirell | landley is quite odd. |
| 21:40.31 | Mirell | prpplague: And he found a girl that likes him despite his quite odd quirks. Therefore.. |
| 21:40.33 | ke7yut | Isn't everyone here odd in at least one way? :D |
| 21:40.37 | prpplague | Mirell: aren't all computer geeks? |
| 21:40.39 | Mirell | ke7yut: Indeedie. |
| 21:40.54 | Mirell | prpplague: Yah, but landley is that genius-level forgets to tie his own shoelaces variety odd |
| 21:41.09 | prpplague | hehe |
| 21:41.43 | Mirell | He truly is a genius for C and some embedded Linux stuff, but geeze, teach him to use a simple program, 2 hours. |
| 21:41.56 | Mirell | But yah. |
| 21:42.03 | ke7yut | I often have trouble with the simple stuff. |
| 21:42.10 | Mirell | ke7yut: Ahh |
| 21:42.44 | Mirell | I'm just more of a generalist |
| 21:43.03 | ke7yut | I don't fit in boxes well, figuratively speaking. |
| 21:43.37 | ke7yut | People often don't understand or appreciate my ideas. |
| 21:44.05 | ke7yut | Right now, I am using an Arduino to control a 5 joint leg for a quadrapod walking robot. |
| 21:44.52 | prpplague | Mirell: indeed he has a great understanding of the code, but has some trouble with the hardware |
| 21:44.58 | mnemoc | ke7yut: http://stores.ebay.com/esky-shn |
| 21:45.50 | mnemoc | ke7yut: at the bottom of the page is the one with 7" touch screen |
| 21:46.12 | ke7yut | mnemoc: I see it, thanks. Nice price, for sure. |
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| 22:32.42 | prpplague | Mirell: i hope it works out well for you guys |
| 22:32.53 | prpplague | steps into his arrogrant mode |
| 22:33.04 | prpplague | Mirell: if you need any help, don't hesitate to ask |
| 22:34.02 | prpplague | Mirell: #edev probably has the largest amount of embedded linux experience than anywhere else on the net |
| 22:37.07 | Mirell | prpplague: Hehe |
| 22:37.09 | Mirell | prpplague: Thanks |
| 22:37.39 | Mirell | I figure in a a year or two, we'll be able to hire more people |
| 22:37.51 | Mirell | Monte Vista and buildroot going down, yo. |
| 22:46.00 | prpplague | Mirell: hehe |
| 22:47.15 | prpplague | Mirell: here is why i will never be rich, i'd never think about it being "MV going down", more like Impact linux setting a much higher standard |
| 22:47.48 | Mirell | prpplague: Hehe |
| 22:48.06 | prpplague | Mirell: if i ever go back into business for myself, i'm going to have to get a ruthless sales mutant to handle that kind of stuff |
| 22:48.13 | Mirell | prpplague: I only like money for the gadgets and not worrying about deciding to eat out every once and a while |
| 22:48.26 | prpplague | Mirell: indeed |
| 22:48.36 | prpplague | ++hookers |
| 22:48.47 | Mirell | Those things are expensive man for the good ones |
| 22:48.52 | Mirell | $500 for an hour |
| 22:49.10 | prpplague | hehe |
| 22:50.48 | prpplague | Mirell: you are going to experience a whole different development environment with cisco/linksys |
| 22:50.54 | Mirell | prpplague: Howso? |
| 22:51.11 | Mirell | prpplague: My current development environment is complete shit, even though it's my first job, I know it can do better |
| 22:51.46 | prpplague | Mirell: for those types of business there are words that are valued more than in other areas: stability, security, replication, and serious revious control |
| 22:52.37 | prpplague | Mirell: every build of the software needs to be exactly the same, it needs to have solid security priniciples, and it needs to rock solid |
| 22:52.59 | Mirell | prpplague: Yah, which is why they're hurting currently, with their old build system, which is stuck with 2.4.20 |
| 22:53.10 | prpplague | Mirell: most of the builds will be fixed at one specific point and won;t move forward unless there a specific bug fix needed |
| 22:53.33 | prpplague | Mirell: yea, that mentality can hurt as well as help |
| 22:53.48 | prpplague | Mirell: if you do the build right, you can slowly move forward without problems |
| 22:53.55 | Mirell | prpplague: Except they realize that they need to actually move forward on kernel, et cetera |
| 22:54.02 | Mirell | prpplague: Except their current team is so overloaded |
| 22:54.10 | Mirell | Hence why they contracted out to Impact Linux |
| 22:54.27 | prpplague | Mirell: have you read up on andrew mortons presentations about corporate OSS dev? |
| 22:54.38 | Mirell | prpplague: I have not. |
| 22:55.03 | prpplague | Mirell: let me get the URL, you show really read it before getting started at cisco |
| 22:56.31 | Mirell | I was kind of amused, apparently the guys there don't know regexes worth a crap |
| 22:56.54 | Mirell | My task for the try-out week was to automate some makefiles that were filled with redundant info, |
| 22:57.11 | Mirell | And it only took a few lines of sed and some massaging, and I got it done within an hour |
| 22:57.20 | prpplague | Mirell: many of the linux devrs that are employeed are "basement hackers" that never really had a full set of skills in the unix environment |
| 22:57.22 | prpplague | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2083975586.html |
| 22:57.34 | prpplague | Mirell: please read that, it is a very good piece |
| 22:57.44 | Mirell | prpplague: Ahh |
| 22:58.10 | prpplague | Mirell: very detail info about pro/cons of static kernel versions in business |
| 22:58.23 | Mirell | prpplague: I come from a sysadmin/hacking background, having to hack around a crappy developed program with lots of duct-tape, et cetera, so that skillset helped me |
| 22:58.26 | Mirell | prpplague: Ahh |
| 22:58.36 | prpplague | Mirell: fun fun |
| 22:58.58 | prpplague | Mirell: cosmic and i've have debated alot of the issues morton has brought up over the years |
| 22:59.04 | prpplague | Mirell: very different business models |
| 22:59.13 | prpplague | Mirell: feel free to discuss them here any time |
| 22:59.23 | prpplague | goes to drink a beer and watch tv |
| 22:59.29 | Mirell | Mmm, beer. |
| 22:59.34 | Mirell | I'm doing Jim Bean myself. |
| 22:59.36 | Mirell | Celebrating! |
| 23:00.57 | Mirell | prpplague: I think the main thing now is to get rid of perl in make_headers |
| 23:01.07 | Mirell | prpplague: landley keeps not getting support on LKML for that |
| 23:02.08 | ke7yut | Mirell: He said nobody spoke up about that except him. |
| 23:04.09 | Mirell | ke7yut: Yah, lots of people e-mailed him in private |
| 23:04.13 | Mirell | ke7yut: But no one on the list |
| 23:04.33 | ke7yut | I think he needed more public support. |
| 23:04.55 | Mirell | Exactly. |
| 23:05.12 | Mirell | It's really quite annoying to have perl in an embedded system to build a kernel. |
| 23:05.18 | Mirell | And I even like Perl, unlike landley. |
| 23:05.20 | ke7yut | Agreed. |
| 23:06.03 | Mirell | Woot, VMWare Fusion bought. |
| 23:09.31 | prpplague | looks back in |
| 23:09.42 | prpplague | Mirell: agreed, the perl issue is a sign of a bigger problem |
| 23:09.56 | prpplague | Mirell: a deeper rift coming between big iron and embedded linux |
| 23:10.48 | Mirell | Ahh |
| 23:11.45 | prpplague | Mirell: most of the serious users of embedded linux are keeping their info/dev to themselves |
| 23:12.02 | prpplague | Mirell: that have commercial interests and don't always see the benefit of working inside the community |
| 23:12.52 | prpplague | Mirell: even simple things such as some of the new defines for drivers "EXP_VENDOR_IS_AN_IDIOT" |
| 23:12.58 | prpplague | Mirell: how professional its that? |
| 23:14.10 | ke7yut | Does that mean Linux is heading towards being more closed? |
| 23:14.54 | prpplague | ke7yut: now, it means that for embedded linux, the process of developing linux and related patches need to become more organized with a professional structure |
| 23:14.55 | Mirell | prpplague: Cisco at least seemed to be on the route to at least forcing vendors to provide them the source code for all drivers |
| 23:15.30 | agaffney | ke7yut: linux will never be "closed" |
| 23:15.30 | Mirell | prpplague: Novell is the one I love to rag about trying to get the OS community yet failing |
| 23:15.52 | Mirell | *work off in its own for six months* "Here's 60 patches for a kernel from six months ago!" |
| 23:16.35 | prpplague | Mirell: indeed |
| 23:16.46 | prpplague | Mirell: but that is typical business environment |
| 23:16.53 | prpplague | Mirell: i deal with that mentality at AML alot |
| 23:17.47 | prpplague | Mirell: point i'm trying to make is that the embedded linux political arena is not a static target, there are lots of issues and lots of personalities involved |
| 23:18.09 | prpplague | Mirell: doing go work in that area always needs to be both techincal and political |
| 23:19.22 | prpplague | Mirell: TI made a big push for OSS about 6 years, they totally failed at it mainly due to their lack of understanding of the politics of OSS comunnities |
| 23:22.32 | Mirell | prpplague: Yah |
| 23:22.56 | prpplague | totally OT, but i put forth that Haweye Pierce was the _original_ Dr.House |
| 23:23.39 | prpplague | s/Haweye/Hawkeye |
| 23:29.31 | prpplague | it has dropped 30 degrees in 4 hours |
| 23:32.21 | Mirell | Hee |
| 23:32.27 | Mirell | Hawkeye as Dr. House... |
| 23:32.28 | Mirell | Hmm... |
| 23:32.34 | Mirell | Yeah, I could see that |
| 23:33.43 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_PB (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |