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| 02:02.56 | Mirell | Out of curiousity, has anyone done Python on a MIPs-based architecture? |
| 02:04.45 | Mirell | Found something that either I missed something in the beginning, or has been a long, long standing bug in Python on MIPS... |
| 02:13.13 | Mirell | Ah, nope, been a bug for...five months? |
| 02:13.24 | Mirell | Prevented compiling Python on MIPS...lovely. |
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| 02:37.43 | *** mode/#edev [+o landley] by ChanServ |
| 02:38.22 | landley | Has prpplague been on much recently? I seem to always miss him... |
| 02:38.36 | landley | ibot: seen prpplague |
| 02:38.54 | landley | ibot: seen ibot? |
| 02:44.30 | joe_bleau | He left about three hours ago. |
| 02:44.42 | joe_bleau | He usually logs back in once he gets home, but not tonight. |
| 02:44.46 | joe_bleau | Family time, perhaps? |
| 02:52.42 | landley | shrugs. |
| 02:52.52 | landley | I've mostly been on a night schedule, probably why I've been missing him. Just thought I'd ask... |
| 02:53.02 | Madsy | Yeah, how dare he lof of IRC! |
| 02:53.02 | Madsy | :-D |
| 02:53.06 | Madsy | log* |
| 02:53.06 | landley | Getting back on a day schedule now, but I forgot to log into freenode today. :) |
| 02:53.10 | Madsy | off* |
| 02:53.14 | Madsy | Bah, I can't spell |
| 02:53.31 | landley | Madsy: this is IRC. It's not required. |
| 02:55.41 | Madsy | The whole purpose of IRC is to communicate, and somehow proper spelling is not required? ;-) |
| 03:03.02 | landley | It's an optional extra. Like bucket seats. |
| 03:03.46 | agaffney | landley: some of us have been following the relatively tame flamewar you started with interest :P |
| 03:04.07 | landley | agaffney: the more people who post, the merrier. |
| 03:04.23 | agaffney | I'm content to just sit back and watch, since I don't do much embedded dev myself |
| 03:04.27 | landley | I'd rather people publicly express interest in the topic (even if they disagree with my implementation) than get dismissed as the only person who cares about this _again_... |
| 03:04.28 | agaffney | however, I completely agree with you |
| 03:04.41 | landley | agaffney: if you have interest, say so. |
| 03:04.48 | agaffney | I figured you'd say that :P |
| 03:05.03 | landley | Peter Anvin added perl to the linux kernel build (and to syslinux, and klibc, and basically every project he can get his hands on) over the past year. |
| 03:05.28 | landley | He seems to be the main proponent for keeping it (although the sh maintainer was surprising in his insistence that cross compiling + perl is not a bad thing). |
| 03:05.53 | landley | I don't know _why_ peter decided that perl should be required in order to build every package he touches. |
| 03:06.14 | landley | Possibly perl falling from #3 to #11 in the language popularity things has him worried about the future of it? I dunno... |
| 03:06.28 | landley | Could just be personal preference, but it's annoying. |
| 03:07.43 | agaffney | I like perl, but I know where it does and doesn't belong |
| 03:08.25 | landley | I don't like perl, but I don't like make either. I'm not currently agitating for make's removal from the kernel. |
| 03:08.40 | landley | I _do_ like python, and if it had shown up I'd probably be ripping it out too. (With much more reluctance, but still.) |
| 03:08.57 | agaffney | heh |
| 03:09.03 | landley | Keeping things simple involves _resisting_ the addition of sparkly things. |
| 03:09.07 | agaffney | I love perl and reluctantly like python |
| 03:09.10 | agaffney | stupid whitespace :P |
| 03:09.17 | landley | agaffney: you've been using make for years. |
| 03:09.20 | landley | It requires hard tabs. |
| 03:09.31 | landley | That's sillier than python's reliance on _visible_ whitespace. |
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| 03:09.54 | agaffney | landley: actually, I've never messed with makefiles, except to make minor mods to existing ones ;) |
| 03:10.14 | landley | agaffney: I have. And I read a largeish chunk of the gnu make manual, and the susv3 make spec. |
| 03:10.27 | landley | Back when I was poking at tinycc, I was trying to get my FWL project down to four files: |
| 03:10.37 | landley | toybox, linux, uclibc, tinycc. |
| 03:10.46 | agaffney | make scares me |
| 03:10.48 | landley | That was the theoretically smallest self-hosting linux system. |
| 03:10.51 | agaffney | although, not as much as auto* |
| 03:10.51 | landley | Make scares everybody. |
| 03:10.56 | landley | auto* is an abomination. |
| 03:11.01 | landley | So is libtool. |
| 03:11.10 | agaffney | never had to touch libtool at all |
| 03:11.15 | landley | Actually the entire gnu build process needs to go, which sadly includes the hariball that is gcc/binutils. |
| 03:11.32 | landley | s/hariball/hairball |
| 03:12.09 | landley | Anyway, I stopped poking at make when tinycc died. (They decided they preferred to stick with cvs than actually have developers. *shrug*.) |
| 03:12.14 | Mirell | I learned make from buildroot... |
| 03:12.19 | Mirell | It was painful. |
| 03:12.20 | landley | Mirell: I'm so sorry. |
| 03:12.23 | Mirell | Thank you... |
| 03:12.41 | landley | The core idea of make is actually fairly simple. Unfortunately it doesn't scale. |
| 03:13.04 | landley | It doesn't combine well with ./configure, it doesn't scale to big projects, it doesn't track dependencies across header files you don't tell it about... |
| 03:13.21 | landley | And mixing imperative and declarative code in the same file is a really stupid idea. |
| 03:13.29 | landley | PICK ONE. |
| 03:13.36 | Mirell | M'kay, patch made for Python to *actually build* on a MIPS machine. |
| 03:13.41 | Mirell | Now to test it out |
| 03:16.32 | Mirell | It slightly saddens me that no one noticed this since March.. |
| 03:19.46 | landley | Mirell: the embedded guys tend to use trailing edge releases. |
| 03:19.59 | landley | It's nuts like us who try to use current stuff on non-x86 platforms that find and have to fix all this stuff. |
| 03:20.11 | landley | And you wonder why avoiding cross compiling at all costs is of such interest? :) |
| 03:20.18 | landley | Adding cross compiling bugs on TOP of that... not pleasant. |
| 03:20.20 | Mirell | Heh |
| 03:20.59 | Mirell | pokes landley. Commit those two patches so FWL actually, like, works now. |
| 03:26.07 | Mirell | landley: Actually, third patch just sent for trximg.sh |
| 03:26.15 | landley | Mirell: ok. |
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| 10:56.23 | likewise | gm |
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| 15:13.58 | keesj | does one know a serial multiplexer so I could use my serial for more then just plain serial? |
| 15:14.58 | prpplague | keesj: nothing off the top of my head, but it all depends on what you want to do |
| 15:15.02 | sjhill | hey prpplague |
| 15:15.12 | prpplague | sjhill: hey bud!!! |
| 15:15.13 | keesj | I am searching for software , something like screen that would allow me to use the serial for plain serial kernel debugging but also run ppp or something |
| 15:15.15 | prpplague | sjhill: long time no see |
| 15:15.31 | sjhill | keesj: uh, no |
| 15:15.38 | prpplague | keesj: oh, i thought you ment hardware |
| 15:16.54 | sjhill | keesj: you need to do one or the other, not both |
| 15:17.11 | sjhill | keesj: you've obviously not tried to debug the kernel over the serial port before |
| 15:18.19 | keesj | I do it all day long. |
| 15:18.32 | keesj | when I am not using jtag |
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| 15:55.45 | prpplague | sjhill: how is business? |
| 15:56.00 | prpplague | sjhill: doing anything interesting that you can talk about without having to shoot me afterwards? |
| 16:04.58 | sjhill | prpplague: nah, work is boring right now |
| 16:05.08 | sjhill | i'm actually trying to decide the next oss project to work on so i can keep my mad skillz up |
| 16:05.16 | prpplague | hehe |
| 16:05.26 | prpplague | sjhill: any particular area you looking towards? |
| 16:05.31 | chouimat|work | morning |
| 16:05.43 | chouimat|work | sjhill: add AVR32 support to qemu :) |
| 16:05.48 | prpplague | chouimat|work: greetings |
| 16:06.01 | prpplague | chouimat|work: pester HcE |
| 16:06.21 | chouimat|work | :) |
| 16:08.22 | sjhill | kernel, embedded, mips, ppc, arm, buildroot, uclibc |
| 16:08.30 | sjhill | returning to my old stuff |
| 16:08.46 | sjhill | or maybe some real-time, fault-tolerant, multicore |
| 16:13.49 | prpplague | sjhill: ahh |
| 16:14.07 | prpplague | sjhill: i've been bogged down in some userland stuff for about 2 months now |
| 16:14.14 | prpplague | sjhill: i much prefer kernel work |
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| 16:47.12 | Crofton|work | tilera? |
| 16:47.15 | Crofton|work | picochip |
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| 18:57.01 | prpplague | ho diddly ho ho |
| 18:57.07 | prpplague | are we having fun yet? |
| 18:57.27 | prpplague | sets up an interrupt to notify him when the fun starts |
| 18:58.30 | agaffney | we're always having fun |
| 18:58.39 | agaffney | for varying degrees of fun |
| 19:00.29 | Mirell | Heh |
| 19:00.48 | Mirell | 'mkay, today to cry that the new bash has regexes, and refuses to compile sans ncurses. |
| 19:00.59 | agaffney | I'm having "fun" breaking into network devices in my office |
| 19:01.05 | agaffney | nobody still around knows the logins |
| 19:01.17 | agaffney | luckily, they're all using the same password with varying usernames |
| 19:07.45 | prpplague | grumbles about a spi issue |
| 19:08.17 | GPSFan | prpplague: howdy, you seen the new progress with libertas gspi? |
| 19:08.28 | chouimat|work | curses mgmt ... I don't want to read the uPnP specs |
| 19:08.34 | prpplague | GPSFan: only vaguely |
| 19:08.46 | prpplague | GPSFan: been totally swamped with this product roll-out |
| 19:09.39 | GPSFan | prpplague: yeah, but the end is in sight (or at least the train's headlamp) |
| 19:09.48 | prpplague | hehe |
| 19:09.52 | GPSFan | http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/libertas-dev/2009-January/002108.html |
| 19:09.55 | prpplague | yea, been a long two years |
| 19:09.59 | prpplague | looks |
| 19:10.35 | Mirell | Time to get a quad-espresso.. |
| 19:10.43 | Mirell | I'm liking this waking up at noon aspect of the job. |
| 19:12.32 | Mirell | Works much better with my circadian rhythm |
| 19:13.59 | wmat | Mirell: you on afternoon shift? |
| 19:15.54 | Mirell | wmat: Telecommuting. |
| 19:16.12 | wmat | even better |
| 19:16.15 | Mirell | Indeedie. |
| 19:16.21 | wmat | I miss my telecommuting days |
| 19:16.36 | Mirell | They're setting me up a cube at the Cisco offices here if I want to use it |
| 19:16.50 | Mirell | Which is nice if I want to get away from distracting kitties and TV and bed. |
| 19:16.55 | wmat | a nice bonus |
| 19:17.16 | wmat | where's here? |
| 19:17.20 | Mirell | Austin, TX |
| 19:17.34 | wmat | nice |
| 19:17.48 | archae0pteryx | Even telecommuting I don't think I could start at noon |
| 19:18.02 | Mirell | archae0pteryx: Too early? :D |
| 19:18.07 | wmat | so you're telecommuting for a separate Cisco group that's not based in Austin? |
| 19:18.21 | Mirell | wmat: Yah, it's for the Linksys main people in Irvine, CA |
| 19:18.35 | archae0pteryx | mirell: I wish, I try to come in by 10 and usually everyone else is here by then |
| 19:18.37 | Mirell | wmat: They seemed to want me to move there, but cost of living is basically double there it is here. |
| 19:18.55 | Mirell | wmat: If not triple.. |
| 19:19.23 | Mirell | Guy I was talking to there, just recently bought a 1,600 square foot condo for $500,000... |
| 19:19.26 | wmat | I just don't get why all companies don't have a telecommute option |
| 19:19.27 | Mirell | *shudder* |
| 19:19.49 | Mirell | For $500,000 here in Austin, I could get a 4,000 square foot house on 10 acres. |
| 19:20.05 | Mirell | wmat: Indeed. |
| 19:20.06 | wmat | wow |
| 19:20.26 | Mirell | wmat: My last company kept going that people couldn't telecommute, they have to show up in the office to work with the "team". |
| 19:20.41 | Mirell | wmat: Then they started offshoring bits and pieces left and right to different parts of the world |
| 19:20.59 | Mirell | wmat: Still wouldn't let people telecommute. Made no sense. |
| 19:21.00 | wmat | that manager-speak |
| 19:21.06 | Mirell | Indeed. |
| 19:22.04 | Mirell | Well, time to get coffee. |
| 19:22.07 | Mirell | That is the one downside, |
| 19:22.23 | Mirell | I was able to drag myself to work in a never-awake state, and get pre-made coffee there |
| 19:23.03 | chouimat|work | wmat: probably because the boss doesn't like the idea of you "working" from home ... |
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| 19:32.04 | prpplague | ~lart kergoth |
| 19:32.04 | purl | sends a legion of lawyers after kergoth's head |
| 19:32.04 | wmat | I would argue that most people don't "work" at the office |
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| 19:34.41 | kergoth | heh |
| 19:37.42 | g1powermac_PB | spider pig, spider pig, does whatever a spider pig does. . . |
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| 19:53.44 | archae0pteryx | gets distracted more easily at the office |
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| 20:17.27 | Mirell | Woo, my Stargate SG-1 DVD collection came in |
| 20:17.32 | Mirell | It's..a lot of DVDs |
| 20:19.15 | chouimat|work | Mirell: the 2 movies and the whole 10 seasons? |
| 20:19.32 | Mirell | chouimat|work: Just the 10 seasons. |
| 20:19.37 | Mirell | chouimat|work: Already have the movies |
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| 20:20.54 | uc_noob | Hello everybody! I have a question referring on a uclibc rootfs. I downloaded the pre-compiled one, but now i would like to build my own development rootfs. How to do that? I downloaded the buildroot snapshot and build it by typing 'make', but I end up with only the toolchain. what do i have to do to end up with a complete rootfs like the pre-compiled one which is available for download. |
| 20:24.07 | uc_noob | Is there a script / tool to create the rootfs or do i have to compile each needed tool by hand? |
| 20:26.05 | prpplague | uc_noob: you have to tell it one of the rootfs image types, try running make menuconfig |
| 20:28.31 | uc_noob | ok, i will try that, thanks |
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| 22:33.59 | landley | waves at prpplague |
| 22:34.37 | prpplague | landley: greetings |
| 22:34.42 | prpplague | landley: how's business so far? |
| 22:34.50 | landley | Pretty good. |
| 22:34.56 | landley | Trying to shake a cold and get stuff ready to demo by monday. |
| 22:35.19 | landley | I'm in the process of adding initramfs packaging, but at some point along the way it stopped _booting_ and I'm trying to figure out why. |
| 22:35.22 | landley | (It _looks_ ok...) |
| 22:35.55 | prpplague | doh |
| 22:36.02 | prpplague | has a i2c hardware bug |
| 22:36.37 | landley | Fun. |
| 22:36.49 | landley | Has the company forced you to deal with WinCE yet? |
| 23:04.19 | adyer | prpplague: some days I'm of the opinion that I2C is a giant hardware bug... |
| 23:04.40 | prpplague | landley: indeed, working on it alot now |
| 23:04.48 | prpplague | adyer: i understand all too well |
| 23:06.25 | landley | prpplague: my condolences. |
| 23:06.32 | landley | Have to pack up from coffee shop in a moment... |
| 23:34.24 | *** part/#edev adyer (n=adyer@adsl-69-223-13-78.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |