| 00:00.22 | joe_bleau | Oh well. I guess we'll live with it for now. Appreciate the help guys. |
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| 00:31.56 | joe_bleau | Great, now it won't boot even with a monitor. x86 strikes again! |
| 00:45.26 | GPSFan | prpplague: you gonna get a chance to peek at the pix looking for my cs & int pins? |
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| 01:10.24 | prpplague | GPSFan: yep looking |
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| 01:52.30 | GPSFan | prpplague: I've done a bit of pokeing too, I scraped the solder mask off the traces next to the wireless rf shield, then rang out the pins on the 8686 to those traces. I then peeked under the CPU and traced those traces to the SSP1 balls. THe CS & INT pins go right between the SSP1 balls and must connect to gpio 24 & 26. |
| 01:54.41 | GPSFan | I then soldered a wire onto CS and one on to CLK and whatchd what happened with my scope when I insmodded the libertas & libertas_spi drivers. It looks like I got the CS correct since I see it toggle to low, and stay low while the clock toggles 4 X 16 clocks. So I think I've got the CS correct. It's probably in the machine code that I've screwed things up. |
| 01:55.08 | GPSFan | s/26/36 |
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| 02:06.57 | GPSFan | prpplague: http://imagebin.ca/view/kUrK40.html it's out of focus, but shows the CS on top & clock on the bottom |
| 02:10.02 | joe_bleau | Looks like a Tek scope. |
| 02:10.22 | joe_bleau | 465/475/485 series? |
| 02:11.56 | GPSFan | joe_bleau: 465 |
| 02:14.58 | GPSFan | joe_bleau: an oldie but a goodie. ;>) |
| 02:16.04 | GPSFan | prpplague: 2ms/div |
| 02:16.11 | joe_bleau | Mostly 7k series here, but I also have an ancient 556 dual beam (will do eight traces!). |
| 02:17.43 | GPSFan | joe_bleau: can't beat a tek scope of almost any age. |
| 02:19.02 | GPSFan | if you can get the trigger set right you can see anything. ;>) |
| 02:20.22 | joe_bleau | Any Teks trigger better than anything. Even the old vacuum tube stuff, thanks to clever tunnel diode circuits. |
| 02:21.21 | MonMotha | I have a 2235. Gets the job done. |
| 02:21.56 | MonMotha | there are times I'd like storage scope, but usually a logic analyzer will suffice then, and I just build something that gets the job done |
| 02:22.45 | joe_bleau | TSD3014 at work. Love it, but it's not got the quality feel of the classics. |
| 02:23.13 | joe_bleau | I've a cute 7D20 plugin digital scope for my frames, and a fast (500MHz) analog storage frame (7934). |
| 02:23.42 | joe_bleau | Analog storage is pretty disappointing. |
| 02:24.21 | MonMotha | yeah, digital storage is pretty much the way to go |
| 02:24.22 | GPSFan | I'd love to have one of their new flat panel models, my 465 has paid for it self so many times I'll never retire it. ;>) |
| 02:24.32 | MonMotha | my 2235 was free :) |
| 02:24.41 | MonMotha | even had a semi-recent calibration |
| 02:24.42 | GPSFan | free is nice. |
| 02:24.48 | MonMotha | indeed |
| 02:25.11 | MonMotha | work had one of the flat panel B&W models; don't remember the model number |
| 02:25.17 | MonMotha | the clearly STN display disappointed me |
| 02:25.33 | joe_bleau | Yeah, those are kinda low-end. TDS220? |
| 02:25.48 | MonMotha | I don't remember |
| 02:25.53 | MonMotha | it wasn't a high end one; I know that |
| 02:26.13 | MonMotha | it was a 2 channel, 1Gsps, 100MHz BW |
| 02:26.35 | joe_bleau | http://www.controlelectronics.com.au/used/tds220/tds220-s.jpg ? |
| 02:26.58 | joe_bleau | I still like a good analog scope to back up the samplers. |
| 02:27.52 | MonMotha | similar, but not that exact model |
| 02:28.02 | MonMotha | the probe comp reference / ground clip was on the right |
| 02:28.12 | MonMotha | and the soft buttons were square |
| 02:28.51 | MonMotha | I've thought of building myself a sampling scope |
| 02:29.04 | MonMotha | interesting set of challenges, to say the least |
| 02:29.30 | joe_bleau | Use any of those cute Linear Technology SMPS modules? |
| 02:30.06 | MonMotha | no, but we had a rep in talking about them |
| 02:30.28 | MonMotha | the impression I got was expensive (both the module and the assembly for them since they are LGA), but damn near impossible to get wrong |
| 02:30.32 | MonMotha | so very quick time to market |
| 02:31.04 | joe_bleau | I'm looking at the LTM8021. |
| 02:31.16 | joe_bleau | Not enough quantity to justify doing our own SMPS. |
| 02:31.37 | joe_bleau | Need wide input range: I'd like to run at 6-30VDC in, 5V out. |
| 02:31.47 | MonMotha | LT1776 is a good controller option |
| 02:31.54 | MonMotha | though again, it's an LT part so not cheap |
| 02:31.57 | joe_bleau | Not especially cost sensitive |
| 02:32.04 | MonMotha | I'm a fan of the NCP3163 from ON |
| 02:32.04 | joe_bleau | I'll only need 250 or so. |
| 02:32.15 | MonMotha | up to 3A out, minimal passives, and very hard to get wrong |
| 02:32.25 | MonMotha | hum, yeah that is very low volume |
| 02:32.37 | MonMotha | LT1776 only needs 7 external parts, I think |
| 02:32.39 | joe_bleau | $7.82 / 100, which ain't bad. |
| 02:32.48 | joe_bleau | And a good layout... |
| 02:32.59 | MonMotha | yeah, it's not as forgiving as some other controllers I've used |
| 02:33.14 | MonMotha | the 3163 doesn't really seem to care if you're not completely braindead with the layout |
| 02:33.24 | joe_bleau | I like not having to source inductors. |
| 02:33.29 | MonMotha | 1776 doesn't seem quite so forgiving, but it didn't give me any hassles |
| 02:34.07 | joe_bleau | I don't know how much current I'll need, but I'm guessing 500mA or less. |
| 02:34.17 | MonMotha | oh, DR73 series is easy to come by and available with lots of options |
| 02:34.20 | MonMotha | Panasonic also has a nice series |
| 02:34.32 | MonMotha | I've never needed a custom coil for a simple buck converter |
| 02:34.40 | MonMotha | now, flybacks and certainly forwards, yes |
| 02:35.09 | joe_bleau | This will be buck. I could see doing buck-boost for another project. |
| 02:35.15 | MonMotha | but $7.82 @ 100 isn't terrible |
| 02:35.24 | joe_bleau | That's what I'm thinking. |
| 02:35.29 | MonMotha | I'm not sure I could beat that very easily in under 500 qty |
| 02:35.37 | MonMotha | now, over 500, I can probably get it to under $5 |
| 02:35.45 | joe_bleau | Wish I knew someone who'd use the LT module. |
| 02:35.46 | MonMotha | and at 1k, $3 or less is reasonable |
| 02:35.50 | Mirell | Oh God, if this works, I'm going to stab Broadcom... |
| 02:36.05 | MonMotha | Mirell: you and about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 other people :) |
| 02:36.10 | Mirell | MonMotha: Heh, indeed. |
| 02:36.17 | Mirell | Well, and OpenWRT.. |
| 02:36.22 | Mirell | Stabbify them too. |
| 02:37.01 | MonMotha | joe_bleau: I've found that on bucks, at least, the layout issues people seem to throw around aren't as bad as people make them out to be |
| 02:37.12 | MonMotha | just keep it "tight" and use big wide planes or traces |
| 02:37.32 | joe_bleau | I won't be doing the layout. |
| 02:37.41 | MonMotha | oh, and be careful around any timing passives, and try to keep the feedback path short and loop-free |
| 02:37.44 | joe_bleau | Need to find a demo/eval board...I can't hand solder LGA. |
| 02:37.51 | MonMotha | nobody can |
| 02:37.59 | MonMotha | you have to reflow them |
| 02:38.05 | joe_bleau | Paste and toaster oven? |
| 02:38.10 | MonMotha | now, that can be done with hand tools, but a soldering iron is not the tool for the job |
| 02:38.22 | MonMotha | I've heard luck with solder, flux, and a heat gun |
| 02:38.37 | MonMotha | but yes, paste and a toaster oven or hotplate seems to be the best for LGAs and EP QFNs |
| 02:38.55 | MonMotha | of course, paste means you'll probably want a stencil |
| 02:38.56 | joe_bleau | There's bound to be a cheap demo for the LTM80xx parts. |
| 02:39.00 | MonMotha | LT should have EV boards |
| 02:39.17 | MonMotha | they tend to like to do all the app engineering for you, so they may make a custom one for you evne |
| 02:39.29 | MonMotha | one of the reason their stuff is so crazy expensive compared to FSC, ON, TI, ST, etc. |
| 02:39.49 | joe_bleau | I'm a big Jim Williams fan, so I like LT. |
| 02:39.56 | joe_bleau | Plus, I'm a shareholder. ;-) |
| 02:40.06 | MonMotha | I interned at ON, so I tend to like their stuff |
| 02:40.44 | MonMotha | though I have to say that National has the king of all op-amp app notes |
| 02:41.05 | MonMotha | AN31, IIRC |
| 02:41.09 | MonMotha | still being updated |
| 02:41.29 | MonMotha | need to know how to build an analog root extractor? It's in there... |
| 02:42.02 | joe_bleau | There's a couple of LT app notes that are more like books. |
| 02:42.06 | joe_bleau | Switching regulators for poets? |
| 02:42.35 | MonMotha | most semi companies have at least one or two app note authors who tend to go whole hog |
| 02:42.58 | MonMotha | AN31 (I think that's it) is just a collection of op-amp circuits. Minimal explanation even |
| 02:43.07 | MonMotha | but it's something like 20 pages of op-amp circuits |
| 02:43.27 | joe_bleau | National has Bob Pease, used to have Widlar, and I think Williams may have been there for a while. |
| 02:45.25 | joe_bleau | Yeah, check out LT AN25, AN61, AN75, AN15 |
| 02:45.45 | joe_bleau | Oh, AN86 is good. |
| 02:46.02 | joe_bleau | AN3 is deeply strange. |
| 02:46.24 | joe_bleau | AN14: retro V-F converters. |
| 02:46.44 | joe_bleau | AN43 is a classic. |
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| 03:17.32 | prpplague | GPSFan: crap, i can't tell where it goes, there are two traces ontop of each other |
| 03:17.40 | prpplague | GPSFan: gonna have to xray it tomorrow |
| 03:19.53 | Mirell | Oh dear. |
| 03:19.54 | Mirell | It worked. |
| 03:20.09 | Mirell | Yep, Broadcom and OpenWRT are going to be stabified. |
| 03:21.09 | Mirell | And now a patch is queued up for the Linux Kernel |
| 03:27.36 | Mirell | And my eyes are bleeding from looking at objdump and ELF headers and hex dumps.. |
| 03:38.47 | Mirell | But that was the most beautiful kernel panic I've seen in a while |
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| 05:16.22 | MonMotha | hum, any AVR gurus? I have a somewhat nitty gritty question regarding the setting of a flag which can trigger an interrupt (via hardware - e.g. USART completion) and when the ISR actually fires |
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| 08:15.46 | damunix | hi all |
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| 12:13.31 | steliosk | anyone knows if conrad.de has an english site ? |
| 12:13.57 | steliosk | i'd like to order something but its all in German |
| 12:16.09 | g1powermac | http://www1.conrad.de/infocenter/lieferung_international.php?lang=en |
| 12:18.54 | chouimat | morning |
| 12:19.04 | g1powermac | morning chouimat |
| 12:21.02 | chouimat | cool -29 C .... |
| 12:21.38 | g1powermac | its going to me -21C here tomorrow morning |
| 12:21.58 | MonMotha | units tells me it's presently -16.11C |
| 12:22.02 | g1powermac | right now its only -12C |
| 12:22.26 | MonMotha | however, it reached approximately -18.33C overnight |
| 12:22.31 | chouimat | today high for me will be -19C ... and -31C windchill :( |
| 12:23.22 | MonMotha | my perception of temperature in C is actually pretty terrible for things outside "thermodynamic" ranges (i.e. where I might instead be inclined to use K) and specing of chip temps |
| 12:23.22 | chouimat | err -31C is for tonight ... will make an interesting walk from the pub |
| 12:23.22 | g1powermac | -8C here for the high with just as bad of a windchill |
| 12:23.24 | g1powermac | heck, the winds were so powerful last night it could have easily blown a person over |
| 12:23.41 | MonMotha | however, I did just get my fancy I/O adapter for an arcade cabinet to live |
| 12:23.41 | MonMotha | so that's good news |
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| 12:23.51 | MonMotha | good morning T0mW |
| 12:23.57 | g1powermac | hey T0mW |
| 12:24.07 | T0mW | good morning! |
| 12:24.18 | T0mW | More snow in Albrightsville, PA |
| 12:24.42 | T0mW | but, I knew this would be the case when I moved here. |
| 12:24.58 | MonMotha | I've shoveled my driveway every day since saturday |
| 12:24.58 | T0mW | postcard pretty though |
| 12:24.59 | g1powermac | mmm, snow |
| 12:25.09 | T0mW | MonMotha: heh, where you at now? |
| 12:25.09 | g1powermac | wishes we'd get some real snow here |
| 12:25.26 | g1powermac | its only been flurries and at most a couple of inches |
| 12:25.50 | MonMotha | T0mW: Fort Wayne, IN |
| 12:25.50 | g1powermac | haven't had a good snowfall here since we moved here almost 6 years ago now |
| 12:25.59 | T0mW | MonMotha: I don't mind it too much, I've now got an asphalt driveway, the old house was a gravel drive. |
| 12:26.04 | MonMotha | we didn't get any snow overnight, but there are presently flurries |
| 12:26.08 | T0mW | MonMotha: yeah, I though it was IN |
| 12:26.10 | g1powermac | T0mW, thats fun |
| 12:26.20 | g1powermac | T0mW, our old house in NJ had a gravel driveway |
| 12:26.20 | MonMotha | T0mW: concrete drive, so shoveling isn't too bad. Not big, either. |
| 12:26.30 | g1powermac | double wide, could fit like eight cars on it |
| 12:26.34 | g1powermac | utter pain to shovel |
| 12:26.45 | T0mW | g1powermac: I also have a neighbor who loves his snowblower, he also sneaks over to do my driveway too. |
| 12:26.53 | g1powermac | thats nice |
| 12:26.53 | MonMotha | I have one of those Toro "Electric Snow Shovels". Best kept secret in home snow removal, I swear. |
| 12:27.04 | T0mW | MonMotha: that is even better! |
| 12:27.09 | g1powermac | T0mW, we owned a snowblower once |
| 12:27.15 | T0mW | heh |
| 12:27.22 | MonMotha | T0mW: yup. It's like a miniature snow blower |
| 12:27.25 | g1powermac | during the worst winter back in 1995 and '96 |
| 12:27.44 | T0mW | g1powermac: where you at now that you regret not having snow ... fool |
| 12:27.48 | MonMotha | little handheld thing, no bigger than a standard snow shovel, not too heavy, and electric, so no gas to mess with (and I really hate 2 cycle engines, which most snowblowers seem to be) |
| 12:27.57 | g1powermac | my mom decided to buy it even though the rest of the family was telling her not too |
| 12:28.16 | g1powermac | she was quite pleased with what came later that year ;-) |
| 12:28.37 | MonMotha | anybody present happen to know some nitty gritty stuff about AVR? |
| 12:28.43 | g1powermac | T0mW, I grew up in the northeast, I like some snow :-) |
| 12:28.44 | T0mW | naw |
| 12:29.02 | T0mW | g1powermac: me too, ice is what I hate |
| 12:29.10 | MonMotha | I need to know if it's possible for non-interrupt context code to ever see an interrupt flag asserted if the interrupt is enabled (i.e. there is an ISR) |
| 12:29.13 | g1powermac | T0mW, heh, then you should move out here |
| 12:29.21 | g1powermac | T0mW, this state is infamous for its ice |
| 12:29.31 | T0mW | g1powermac: where? |
| 12:29.57 | g1powermac | a month or two before we moved out here, the state got hit with a massive ice storm, knocked power out for parts of the state for months |
| 12:30.01 | g1powermac | Kentucky |
| 12:30.34 | g1powermac | we're right on the edge between not getting snow and getting a decent amount, so we tend to get quite a bit of ice |
| 12:30.39 | T0mW | ah, just south and west. I like that state, less hilly than PA, but not like West Virginia! |
| 12:31.03 | g1powermac | yea, the terrain is amazing, as for the natives, thats another story ;-) |
| 12:31.42 | T0mW | MonMotha: I would think that the code would never have to know of the interrupt context? |
| 12:31.53 | T0mW | if it is not part of the ISR? |
| 12:32.16 | T0mW | MonMotha: unless you are calling it via ISR... |
| 12:32.18 | g1powermac | though southern indiana is quite nice too |
| 12:32.28 | T0mW | g1powermac: too flat for me |
| 12:32.38 | T0mW | I like hills |
| 12:32.38 | chouimat | g1powermac: it's ok ... I have an old -40C rated winter coat I can send you if you need it ;) |
| 12:32.40 | g1powermac | actually, it isn't really flat |
| 12:32.54 | T0mW | chouimat: good morning, nanook |
| 12:33.02 | g1powermac | right along side the ohio river, its still quite hilly |
| 12:33.03 | chouimat | T0mW: hehe |
| 12:33.11 | g1powermac | about as hilly as it is where I am now |
| 12:33.16 | T0mW | chouimat: take your cold front back, please? |
| 12:33.26 | g1powermac | chouimat, nice :-) |
| 12:33.46 | chouimat | T0mW: it's not my fault... the polar bears are mad and the want blood |
| 12:33.58 | T0mW | OW! I got my first full month heating bill from the electric company: $467 |
| 12:34.05 | g1powermac | T0mW, the nice part about southern indiana is that there's less limestone and better soil |
| 12:34.27 | g1powermac | yup, yup, good ole northeastern electric bills :-) |
| 12:34.35 | T0mW | had oil-fired hot water baseboard in old house |
| 12:35.00 | g1powermac | sends some cheap and dirty electricity from Kentucky to T0mW ;-) |
| 12:35.25 | T0mW | I am definately going to install radiant floor heat in this place this year and a propane fired boiler! |
| 12:35.32 | chouimat | waits for his macbook and for the airport extreme card for his ibook g4 |
| 12:35.35 | g1powermac | its unbelievable how cheap electricity is here |
| 12:35.58 | g1powermac | though quite sad that 90%+ of it is produced by coal plants |
| 12:36.16 | chouimat | g1powermac: the other 10% if made from fried chicken? |
| 12:36.23 | T0mW | g1powermac: hey, the price caps come off the electric here in PA in 2010, they expect the rates to increase from 30 to 63 percent. |
| 12:36.23 | g1powermac | hahah |
| 12:36.44 | g1powermac | no, actually is from hydropower, we have quite a few rivers around here |
| 12:36.55 | g1powermac | T0mW, ouch |
| 12:36.55 | MonMotha | T0mW: well, what I'm wondering is if it is possible for interrupt latency to allow an IN instruction to catch the flag in the register in the asserted state before the ISR is jumped to |
| 12:36.59 | chouimat | g1powermac: :) |
| 12:37.05 | MonMotha | however, I decided to just make it irrelevant |
| 12:37.10 | MonMotha | adds a couple flag variables, but whatever |
| 12:37.14 | g1powermac | chouimat, though good guess :-) |
| 12:37.16 | T0mW | g1powermac: oh, so, kentucky is too poor to export the excess electric? |
| 12:37.38 | MonMotha | and hey, electricity is REALLY cheap here |
| 12:37.39 | T0mW | g1powermac: cannot afford to put up distribution lines to other states? |
| 12:37.47 | g1powermac | we're too poor right now to keep the state employees working 5 days a week. . . |
| 12:37.47 | MonMotha | and some of it might actually be nuke (though most is likely coal) |
| 12:37.49 | T0mW | MonMotha: bah! |
| 12:37.57 | chouimat | MonMotha: I know a place that might be even cheaper |
| 12:37.58 | T0mW | ;-) |
| 12:38.14 | T0mW | g1powermac: yeah |
| 12:38.20 | g1powermac | MonMotha, yea, indiana is really cheap too |
| 12:38.33 | MonMotha | that said, AEP is set to hike rates >100% this year |
| 12:38.40 | T0mW | ow |
| 12:38.45 | MonMotha | though I think the IURC told them "no" |
| 12:39.03 | MonMotha | I think that was "ask for something clearly outlandish in hopes that they will subsequently approve something that is merely absurd" |
| 12:39.23 | T0mW | MonMotha: well, they'll fix that, they'll sell most of their power to us out-of-staters and leave you with brownouts. |
| 12:39.25 | g1powermac | the only annoying part about have uber cheap electricity is that these states don't do alternative energy rebate programs |
| 12:39.25 | MonMotha | all of this based on the cost of oil...as of ~July of last year |
| 12:39.50 | MonMotha | never mind that there are NO oil fired power plants in the area that I am aware of at least |
| 12:40.09 | g1powermac | california's rebate program is sooo nice |
| 12:41.16 | g1powermac | its gonna cost me an arm and a leg to setup my off the grid system |
| 12:41.16 | MonMotha | their electricity also costs ~3x what it does around here |
| 12:41.25 | *** join/#edev flavioribeiro (n=avaty@189.71.5.77) |
| 12:41.31 | T0mW | well, I am getting closer to having a kitchen in the house. heh, got the last appliance that I needed: a used gas cooktop. |
| 12:41.50 | g1powermac | yea, but I'd pay that for the few months that I'm working on producing my own electricity for a 50% rebate :-) |
| 12:42.06 | T0mW | I finalized the base cabinets layout and gave that to my cabinet maker buddy. |
| 12:42.12 | chouimat | g1powermac: in ottawa it's 0.0560/kWh and in Quebec it's 0.0540/kWh |
| 12:42.31 | g1powermac | is that in CND? |
| 12:42.39 | chouimat | yes |
| 12:42.41 | MonMotha | .ca has crazy cheap electricity |
| 12:42.43 | MonMotha | lots of hydro |
| 12:43.01 | T0mW | g1powermac: exchange rate is higher now. |
| 12:43.01 | MonMotha | I end up usually in the 0.07-0.09USD/kWh |
| 12:43.19 | MonMotha | purl: change 1 CAD to 1 USD |
| 12:43.23 | MonMotha | purl: change 1 CAD to USD |
| 12:43.36 | MonMotha | ok, that apparently doesn't work |
| 12:43.42 | MonMotha | it's no longer at parity, though |
| 12:43.43 | chouimat | iirc 1 CAD == 0.82USD |
| 12:43.50 | chouimat | or around this |
| 12:43.52 | MonMotha | I think it's closer than that |
| 12:44.02 | g1powermac | |
| 12:44.02 | g1powermac | 1 Canadian dollar = 0.801925 U.S. dollars |
| 12:44.05 | MonMotha | oh wow, or not |
| 12:44.06 | g1powermac | straight from google |
| 12:44.06 | MonMotha | yeah |
| 12:44.14 | T0mW | I'm at 2.45 cents / KWH |
| 12:44.37 | g1powermac | we did reach parity not that long ago though |
| 12:44.43 | MonMotha | unfortunately, my bill does not separate fees from actual usage |
| 12:44.54 | g1powermac | but the dollar has strengthened these past few months |
| 12:44.56 | MonMotha | so the 7-9c/kWh includes all the "service fees" and crap |
| 12:45.06 | MonMotha | makes it hard to compare |
| 12:45.17 | g1powermac | hmm, do you guys get taxed on utilities? |
| 12:45.18 | MonMotha | I don't use a ton, so the fees really cut in |
| 12:45.21 | MonMotha | oh yes |
| 12:45.27 | g1powermac | k, same here |
| 12:45.32 | g1powermac | especially the phone |
| 12:45.35 | MonMotha | I believe it's just standard sales tax, though |
| 12:45.42 | chouimat | g1powermac: 0.80 is still a good exchange rate ... anything about 0.75 is good ... below it's bad for productivity because we make profit just with the exchange rate ... produce in CAD and sell it in USD ... |
| 12:45.45 | g1powermac | all our school taxes come from the phone taxes |
| 12:46.04 | T0mW | MonMotha: my electric bill tells you all kinds of crap about pricing. hard to figure out what you are getting charged for. |
| 12:46.10 | MonMotha | oh, well, the phone companies often charge tons of fees that they try to represent as "taxes", but they're just extra money for the telco |
| 12:46.15 | g1powermac | who knows what they do with the sales tax |
| 12:46.20 | MonMotha | T0mW: sounds like your bill is the exact opposite of mine |
| 12:46.27 | MonMotha | mine is pretty much "pay us this" |
| 12:46.36 | g1powermac | then we got state income tax |
| 12:46.45 | T0mW | distribution charge, transmission charge, transition charge, Generation charge... |
| 12:46.48 | g1powermac | and strange property tax |
| 12:47.14 | g1powermac | they barely tax your land and house, but you'll pay a pretty penny if you own a new car |
| 12:47.16 | chouimat | T0mW: no delivery charge? |
| 12:47.26 | g1powermac | every year you get assessed with property tax on your car |
| 12:47.30 | MonMotha | odd |
| 12:47.34 | T0mW | chouimat: ha!, you mean the "bend over" charge? |
| 12:47.43 | chouimat | hehe |
| 12:47.45 | MonMotha | property tax in Indiana is pretty much on real estate |
| 12:47.56 | MonMotha | it got kinda out of control for a while, but they cut them pretty harshly |
| 12:47.56 | g1powermac | and whats worse is when you own a business |
| 12:47.58 | g1powermac | ugh, its bad |
| 12:48.07 | g1powermac | they charge you tax on your stock in your store |
| 12:48.09 | MonMotha | they used to have the Inventory tax, but they got rid of that |
| 12:48.20 | chouimat | T0mW: I was more thinking of the "on your knees and talk to the mike" charge |
| 12:48.29 | T0mW | chouimat: lol |
| 12:48.32 | MonMotha | yeah, Indiana got rid of that about 4 years ago, IIRC |
| 12:48.36 | g1powermac | so the couple of thousand pairs of shoes we have makes for one big bill at the end of the year |
| 12:48.44 | MonMotha | I think it was a ballot initiative in the election 4 years ago |
| 12:48.50 | g1powermac | nice |
| 12:49.05 | MonMotha | of course, sales tax has gone up 2% since then |
| 12:49.19 | g1powermac | property tax isn't much in indiana though |
| 12:49.25 | MonMotha | not now |
| 12:49.29 | g1powermac | at least the area we've been looking at |
| 12:49.34 | T0mW | chouimat: I went through the BTU calculations for my usage (5065 KWH) and figured that propane would have only cost my $325 instead of the $467 for electric. |
| 12:49.37 | MonMotha | it was a few years ago |
| 12:49.46 | chouimat | dream of world without any income or propety tax ... but a nice 35% sales tax ... |
| 12:49.49 | g1powermac | is considering buying a house out in southern indiana |
| 12:50.00 | T0mW | chouimat: you have that now, don;'t you? |
| 12:50.01 | MonMotha | a few years ago, there were people having to sell their family homes to pay the property taxes on them |
| 12:50.03 | g1powermac | chouimat, move to europe ;-) |
| 12:50.11 | chouimat | T0mW: no |
| 12:50.23 | g1powermac | MonMotha, ahh |
| 12:50.29 | chouimat | g1powermac: at least everyone pay and the rich pay even more :) |
| 12:50.32 | T0mW | chouimat: no?! I thought that Canada had a consumption tax |
| 12:50.38 | MonMotha | people threatened to vote out their state legislators, and, lo and behold, property taxes went way down (with some serious stern words from the then-new governor) |
| 12:50.38 | g1powermac | MonMotha, whats your sales tax rate out there? |
| 12:50.48 | MonMotha | g1powermac: 7% on most things |
| 12:50.52 | g1powermac | k |
| 12:50.59 | g1powermac | only 1% more than here |
| 12:51.02 | chouimat | T0mW: 5% GST and 8% PST (in ontario) |
| 12:51.02 | MonMotha | in the Indianapolis area and surrounding counties, I think it's 8% on prepared food |
| 12:51.19 | MonMotha | that's to pay for the new stadium for the Indianapolis Colts |
| 12:51.23 | T0mW | MonMotha: city tax |
| 12:51.38 | g1powermac | hah, yea, forgot about city income taxes out here |
| 12:51.48 | g1powermac | though luckily this town doesn't do that |
| 12:51.59 | MonMotha | there are no city income taxes here, though the county does get a small share of your state taxes |
| 12:52.10 | T0mW | ooo! ooo! I qualify as a "first time homeowner"! |
| 12:52.13 | MonMotha | the city gets all its income from property taxes and state funded programs |
| 12:52.24 | MonMotha | T0mW: heh, going to take the $7500 federal credit? |
| 12:52.24 | g1powermac | T0mW, hehe, me too |
| 12:52.31 | T0mW | yup |
| 12:52.33 | MonMotha | (aka interest free loan) |
| 12:52.50 | g1powermac | T0mW, if I do end up buying a house in Indiana, I'll be going for a US backed rural loan of sorts |
| 12:52.50 | MonMotha | you unfortunately have to pay it back over IIRC 15 years |
| 12:52.51 | T0mW | definately, that will get me cabinets for the kitchen heh |
| 12:53.09 | T0mW | MonMotha: I might be dead by then |
| 12:53.09 | g1powermac | super low rates and low downpayment |
| 12:53.11 | MonMotha | if I determine I'll actually be staying here (what with the loss of job and all), I will also likely take it |
| 12:53.22 | MonMotha | also, I'll refinance :) |
| 12:53.33 | T0mW | MonMotha: for lower rate? |
| 12:53.41 | g1powermac | bbiab |
| 12:53.48 | MonMotha | T0mW: like 1.5% lower |
| 12:54.08 | MonMotha | and since I still owe almost all the principle, that's a no brainer as closing costs around here aren't too bad |
| 12:54.16 | T0mW | MonMotha: wow, what rate do you have now? I got 6% |
| 12:54.24 | MonMotha | 6 3/8% |
| 12:54.30 | T0mW | ah |
| 12:54.44 | MonMotha | when I started looking, I was told to expect 5.81%, but in a month and a half, it went up to 6 3/8% |
| 12:54.49 | T0mW | I thought about it, but it makes so little difference in the monthly |
| 12:55.06 | MonMotha | of course, now you can find 4.5% if you look hard and have 20% equity/down |
| 12:55.10 | T0mW | yeah, same here, started at 5.875, but closed at 6 |
| 12:55.13 | MonMotha | 4.75% is more easily attainable |
| 12:55.30 | MonMotha | I think I owe more than you, so the difference in payment is likely greater |
| 12:55.34 | T0mW | MonMotha: problem is that the value of hte home has dropped since I put that 20% down... |
| 12:55.36 | MonMotha | I didn't put a whole lot down |
| 12:55.54 | T0mW | MonMotha: so, I may have no equity at this point |
| 12:56.07 | MonMotha | has it gone down THAT much? |
| 12:56.15 | T0mW | yeah |
| 12:56.17 | MonMotha | i.e. has it lost as much value as you put down |
| 12:56.21 | MonMotha | woah |
| 12:56.27 | MonMotha | given that you've done a lot of major work, that seems odd |
| 12:56.33 | MonMotha | you're in PA, right? |
| 12:56.46 | MonMotha | PA hasn't been hit overly hard |
| 12:57.04 | T0mW | we got hit pretty hard here, there is a couple of developments that are filthy with foreclosures and glutted the market. |
| 12:57.06 | MonMotha | I got mine in at a fire sale price, so it's likely worth about what I paid for it |
| 12:57.28 | MonMotha | and there's not a ton of foreclosures around here |
| 12:57.48 | T0mW | MonMotha: I think that housing in the valley have dropped 16% since July |
| 12:58.01 | MonMotha | that's pretty bad |
| 12:58.13 | MonMotha | that's up there with AZ, CA, and FL |
| 12:58.20 | MonMotha | though they had already fallen a lot |
| 12:59.12 | T0mW | MonMotha: unscrupulous mortgage brokers and builders sold ARM mortgages to people from NYC, now those people have been losing homes steadily over the past year. At the rate of 20 foreclosures a month |
| 12:59.20 | T0mW | that is in this county alone |
| 12:59.38 | T0mW | well, Monroe county, next one over. |
| 12:59.41 | MonMotha | ah |
| 12:59.51 | MonMotha | I don't think there was a ton of that stuff going on around here |
| 12:59.51 | T0mW | Lazurne county is almost as bad |
| 13:00.07 | MonMotha | hey, at least the ARMs are adjusting down |
| 13:00.21 | MonMotha | the issue is that most of them had teaser rates and/or interest only/negative amortization promo periods |
| 13:00.24 | MonMotha | and THOSE are expiring |
| 13:00.26 | T0mW | MonMotha: Suckers (capital S) didn't understand what an ARM mortgage was! |
| 13:00.48 | MonMotha | an ARM isn't bad if you really believe that rates are going to just go down from where you're at |
| 13:01.08 | MonMotha | so if you're looking at a 15% 30yr fixed or an ARM for those 30 years, the ARM might be better |
| 13:01.15 | T0mW | one of the developments, Pocono Country Place, has turned into a little New York City. Gunfire, home invasions, etc. |
| 13:01.32 | MonMotha | just stay away from teaser stuff like promo rates, initial interest only payments (with subsequent payments that you can't afford), negative amortization, etc. |
| 13:01.46 | MonMotha | wow, that's bad |
| 13:01.50 | T0mW | MonMotha: ARM is good if you are an up and coming young professional who will be moving on in a few years. |
| 13:02.08 | MonMotha | yeah, an ARM can also work out well in those situations |
| 13:02.17 | MonMotha | though if you can pull off a 4.5% 30yr fixed, go for it |
| 13:02.26 | T0mW | yeah |
| 13:02.48 | MonMotha | I kinda wish I'd saved even more over the year that I did |
| 13:02.50 | T0mW | I would rather pay more per month (conventional) knowing that is what it is always going to be. |
| 13:02.55 | MonMotha | I could have potentially pulled off a 15yr fixed |
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| 13:03.14 | T0mW | you know, all in all, I think I did buy at the right time. Money was available when I bought. |
| 13:03.19 | MonMotha | then you do weekly payments, and you own in like 10-12 years |
| 13:03.46 | MonMotha | but, you can kinda do that on a 30yr. Just pay weekly and overpay by what you can. |
| 13:03.49 | T0mW | I'm struggling right now to do the monthly payments. things have really slowed down. |
| 13:03.52 | MonMotha | own in like 20 |
| 13:04.02 | MonMotha | well, things have slowed for me, too |
| 13:04.13 | T0mW | fingers crossed |
| 13:04.15 | MonMotha | but this situation for me is clearly temporary. Either I'll get my job back, or I'll move |
| 13:04.36 | T0mW | I really want to see the new President sworn in and get things moving. |
| 13:04.58 | MonMotha | well, my situation isn't tied really to any of that |
| 13:05.09 | MonMotha | it's all about a couple of things happening (which can fortunately happen in several ways) |
| 13:05.16 | MonMotha | if those things happen, I get my job back, and all is well |
| 13:05.21 | MonMotha | if those things fall through, I'm hosed |
| 13:05.37 | T0mW | yeah, but you are young, you can recover |
| 13:05.41 | MonMotha | true |
| 13:05.48 | MonMotha | but I sure as hell don't want to try to sell a house right now |
| 13:05.51 | T0mW | me, I'm an old fart at 55 |
| 13:06.35 | T0mW | not like some people I know, they are 70+ and have lost a substantial amount of their retirement funding |
| 13:06.48 | MonMotha | my IRA is worth less than I've put in it :) |
| 13:06.56 | T0mW | sad when you see something like that happen to them. |
| 13:06.58 | MonMotha | I would have done better to just hold it all as cash |
| 13:07.02 | T0mW | heh |
| 13:07.15 | MonMotha | heck, I think I could have done better to hold it all as post-tax cash! |
| 13:07.29 | T0mW | advice: don't give it to Bernie Maydux (? spelling) |
| 13:07.35 | MonMotha | Madoff |
| 13:07.38 | MonMotha | and no |
| 13:08.00 | T0mW | yeah, I got out the Markets in March last year, cashed in to do the house. |
| 13:08.23 | T0mW | I think this house is my best investment |
| 13:08.54 | T0mW | heh, still working at it. Moved a wall (doorway) last week. |
| 13:09.27 | T0mW | my buddy Steve came over and we ripped down one wall and put up another. small 4 foot section. |
| 13:09.42 | T0mW | MonMotha: I'm having fun |
| 13:10.17 | MonMotha | sounds like it |
| 13:10.32 | T0mW | well, I've a vmware machine to fix and a customer that needs it done today. cul |
| 13:10.34 | MonMotha | if I get to stay here, there's a door replacement that I need to make, and still lots more flooring |
| 13:10.42 | MonMotha | have fun |
| 13:10.45 | T0mW | nod |
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| 13:19.06 | chouimat|away | ok time to go to work |
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| 13:36.11 | *** mode/#edev [+o GPSFan] by ChanServ |
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| 14:46.23 | GPSFan | prpplague: did you see the scope picture I posted last night? |
| 14:48.13 | prpplague | GPSFan: sorry no, was pretty tired, but i did look at the photo's but there were two traces on different layers so it was hard to tell which trace went where |
| 14:49.45 | GPSFan | prpplague: I think I got the CS nailed, the scope pix show the wire I attached to the 8686 CS and the clock. the CS toggles appropriately when I load insmod the module. |
| 14:50.49 | prpplague | GPSFan: ahh |
| 14:51.02 | GPSFan | prpplague: I'm going skiing today, so no hacking. thanks again for looking for the connections. I think we can start further machine code debugging when I get back tomorrow. |
| 14:51.25 | prpplague | GPSFan: ahh ok, sorry i didn't have more time |
| 14:51.32 | GPSFan | np |
| 14:53.07 | GPSFan | prpplague: it made me get off my but and do some real hardware hacking. I think I will need to watch those signals as I find problems in the machine code. |
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| 15:20.53 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin / kergoth / chouimat|away greetings |
| 15:23.49 | g1powermac_PB | hey prpplague |
| 15:26.46 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: greetings |
| 15:26.53 | prpplague | struggles to get wince booting |
| 15:27.16 | g1powermac_PB | needs to prep for negative temps tomorrow |
| 15:27.37 | g1powermac_PB | got some plants I don't think will survive the -6F low tonight |
| 15:29.33 | prpplague | wonders if he would get in trouble if he put the dog outside and sprayed it down with the water house |
| 15:29.52 | agaffney | depends, is it 4F outside like it is here in St. Louis? :P |
| 15:29.56 | g1powermac_PB | heh, guess it depends on the temp over by you :-) |
| 15:30.13 | prpplague | it is going to be around 20F tonight |
| 15:30.33 | g1powermac_PB | thats pretty cold for texas |
| 15:30.39 | prpplague | yea |
| 15:30.57 | g1powermac_PB | throw some moisture in the mix and heck, you could get snow |
| 15:31.39 | prpplague | only snows in the DFW area about once every three or four years |
| 15:31.50 | adyer | Dallas in snow and ice is pretty funny for someone from the North - it's like pandemonium |
| 15:32.07 | prpplague | indeed |
| 15:32.10 | g1powermac_PB | adyer: heh, you haven't see what happens here, and we do get snow |
| 15:32.29 | g1powermac_PB | we get snow pretty much every year, but every time its total insanity |
| 15:33.01 | g1powermac_PB | they've closed schools on the threat of snow |
| 15:33.55 | g1powermac_PB | but then again, I think these people in this state think they live on the gulf coast or something |
| 15:34.08 | wmat | g1powermac_PB: it was -30C on my way to work this morning, although that was with the windchill |
| 15:34.36 | CosmicPenguin | This is what you all get for living below 5000 feet |
| 15:34.43 | g1powermac_PB | its friekin negative temps F and the kids still goto school in shorts. . . |
| 15:35.02 | g1powermac_PB | shorts and a winter coat. . . |
| 15:35.11 | g1powermac_PB | actually, a coat is rare |
| 15:35.25 | g1powermac_PB | more like a hoodie |
| 15:36.20 | g1powermac_PB | wmat: yea, its going to get like that here tomorrow |
| 15:36.55 | wmat | g1powermac_PB: it's +2C in Whitehorse today. The universe is clearly out of balance. |
| 15:37.03 | g1powermac_PB | heh |
| 15:37.46 | g1powermac_PB | the amazing part is the parents are no better than the kids, they barely wear any winter gear |
| 15:38.21 | g1powermac_PB | and if it gets to around 50F or so, they're out in flip flops! |
| 15:38.59 | g1powermac_PB | and they wonder why they hate the cold. . . |
| 15:42.23 | chouimat|work | morning again |
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| 19:42.46 | gandhijee | hey guys is there any major diff between busybox 1.12 branch and 1.13 branch? |
| 19:44.41 | prpplague | gandhijee: usually for that level of revision, no |
| 19:44.53 | gandhijee | cool |
| 19:53.12 | prpplague | lordy lordy |
| 19:53.40 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i got this wince image to boot, i get some leds blinking, but no serial output or console :( |
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| 20:12.31 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 20:14.49 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: thats unfortunate |
| 20:15.13 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: alot further along though |
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| 21:30.14 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 21:30.25 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: getting used to board bringup on wince is gonna take awhile |
| 21:30.52 | CosmicPenguin | likely |
| 21:32.08 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i'm having a ton of trouble trying to understand how to get a good serial output |
| 21:32.25 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: seems they are all geared towards using ethernet or usb for debugging |
| 21:33.02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: getting used to things there yet? |
| 21:33.10 | CosmicPenguin | not really |
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| 21:52.10 | miknix | hello prpplague |
| 21:52.29 | prpplague | miknix: hey |
| 22:08.05 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
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| 22:38.05 | g1powermac_PB | huh, a passenger jet crash landed into the Hudson river, amazingly everyone survived and even most of the plane |
| 22:39.41 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: mainly due to the fact there was so much trash in the water that plane could land on like a cushion |
| 22:39.47 | g1powermac_PB | haha |
| 22:40.47 | CosmicPenguin | thats two crashes in a row where everybody got out safely |
| 22:41.04 | g1powermac_PB | what was the first crash? |
| 22:41.08 | CosmicPenguin | the one in denver |
| 22:41.13 | g1powermac_PB | ahh |
| 22:41.43 | g1powermac_PB | haven't heard of the denver one |
| 22:41.49 | CosmicPenguin | heh |
| 22:42.07 | CosmicPenguin | continental airlines, never got airborne |
| 22:42.20 | agaffney | meh, that doesn't count |
| 22:42.21 | g1powermac_PB | remembers the one out here in Lexington, KY |
| 22:42.26 | MonMotha | well, then it wasn't a crash "landing", now was it? |
| 22:42.28 | agaffney | it's not a plane crash unless it's airborne :P |
| 22:42.40 | g1powermac_PB | though I think some people died in that one |
| 22:42.42 | CosmicPenguin | it went airborne when it bounced off the runway - does that count? |
| 22:42.43 | agaffney | it's just a plane "mishap" |
| 22:42.57 | agaffney | g1powermac_PB: extreme taxiing? |
| 22:43.11 | g1powermac_PB | agaffney: nah, pilot landed on the wrong runway |
| 22:43.28 | MonMotha | well, I'll call that pilot error |
| 22:43.28 | g1powermac_PB | landed on the mini runway for small planes |
| 22:43.33 | agaffney | heh |
| 22:43.51 | agaffney | yeah, that's the pilot having too many little bottles of alcohol |
| 22:44.08 | g1powermac_PB | though at least the lexington airport never gets large passenger planes |
| 22:44.17 | g1powermac_PB | only smaller shuttle jets |
| 22:45.22 | g1powermac_PB | oh wait, the pilot was trying to take off on the mini runway |
| 22:45.36 | g1powermac_PB | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comair_Flight_5191 |
| 22:46.25 | g1powermac_PB | and everyone minus one died |
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| 23:46.56 | Mirell | Hmm.. |
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