| 00:08.01 | ds2 | revs a 2 cycle chainsaw to break the silence |
| 00:10.44 | MonMotha | rustier! |
| 00:11.34 | joe_bleau | Still looking for suggestions on microcontroller with lcd controller. |
| 00:11.45 | joe_bleau | Want to run a TFT panel, probably QVGA. |
| 00:13.17 | MonMotha | your non-BGA options are limited |
| 00:13.32 | joe_bleau | I don't know that it has to be non-BGA. |
| 00:13.39 | joe_bleau | We have at least one CM that can do 'em. |
| 00:13.39 | MonMotha | oh, well, then lots of options |
| 00:13.56 | MonMotha | I've used the AT91SAM9263. There's a smaller version ending in 9261 |
| 00:14.05 | MonMotha | well supported by Linux and reasonably easy to use. Just be sure to read the errata. |
| 00:14.24 | joe_bleau | I don't recall those being microontrollers. Onboard flash? |
| 00:14.45 | MonMotha | oh, no. There is the SAM9XE series, but I'm not sure if they have onboard LCD controllers |
| 00:14.55 | MonMotha | your options with onboard flash/RAM are going to be limited, too |
| 00:15.00 | MonMotha | do you want to run Linux? |
| 00:15.06 | joe_bleau | Nope. |
| 00:15.12 | MonMotha | if not, there's an ARM7TDMI from I think Sharp with an LCD controller |
| 00:15.16 | MonMotha | might even be QFP |
| 00:15.17 | joe_bleau | Bare metal, maybe freertos. |
| 00:15.26 | joe_bleau | NXP has those now, I think. |
| 00:15.31 | MonMotha | sounds right |
| 00:15.37 | joe_bleau | Bluestreak? |
| 00:15.44 | MonMotha | you may run into issues having a sufficient amount of onboard RAM for a QVGA framebuffer even at 8bpp |
| 00:16.10 | joe_bleau | 8 bpp is fine. I don't even need to double buffer, but that would be nice. |
| 00:16.12 | MonMotha | that's 77k of RAM |
| 00:16.32 | MonMotha | most of those little micros with onboard RAM/flash have 128k at most, and usually 32 or 64k of RAM |
| 00:16.49 | roxfan | http://www.standardics.nxp.com/support/design/microcontrollers/lcd.controller/ |
| 00:16.49 | MonMotha | the LCD controller will also chew up most of your memory bandwidth |
| 00:17.01 | MonMotha | looked into possibly using a "smart" LCD panel? (onboard framebuffer) |
| 00:17.18 | joe_bleau | Never priced one out, but a smart LCD is certainly an option. |
| 00:17.42 | joe_bleau | I doubt that we'll build more than 250 of these annually, so quantity isn't helping us. |
| 00:17.49 | MonMotha | roxfan: yeah, I think those are what I was thinking of. I think those used to be Sharp products |
| 00:18.07 | MonMotha | oh, yeah. That means no sales reps are going to be interested, which makes research harder |
| 00:18.35 | joe_bleau | Something like the '9263 or a coldfire 5329 would be great, just not sure I have the budget to throw sdram and flash at it. |
| 00:18.59 | joe_bleau | And I'm guessing any sort of module with a cpu like that is gonna run >$100. |
| 00:19.19 | MonMotha | joe_bleau: the PCB on the 9263 will also kill you. That chip is 0.8mm pitch, so you need 4/4 trace/space and 8 mil finished via holes |
| 00:19.43 | MonMotha | 8 layers is pretty much the minimum to bring it out without using blind vias or via under pad (which costs lots of $$$) due to the silly pinout |
| 00:20.00 | joe_bleau | Not worth the hassle on this project then. |
| 00:20.03 | MonMotha | though if you only need one memory bus and the LCD controller, you could use the 9261 which I think can be done on 6 or maybe 4 layers |
| 00:20.20 | MonMotha | dunno what the coldfire 5329 is |
| 00:20.30 | MonMotha | a lot of Freescale's stuff is 0.75mm pitch which is basically the same |
| 00:20.34 | joe_bleau | Neat chip--on board LCD, CAN, ethernet. |
| 00:21.40 | MonMotha | onboard kitchen sink |
| 00:21.42 | roxfan | http://www.embeddedrelated.com/usenet/embedded/show/90239-1.php |
| 00:22.15 | MonMotha | (though lots of Atmel's stuff is like that, too) |
| 00:22.55 | MonMotha | yeah, an external LCD controller is also an option |
| 00:23.01 | joe_bleau | I thought Renesas had one in either the H8 or M16 series. |
| 00:23.03 | MonMotha | you can rather easily build one on a CPLD if you want to, also |
| 00:23.17 | MonMotha | need some framebuffer RAM, though |
| 00:23.22 | roxfan | renesas' stuff is more for segmented lcd afaik |
| 00:24.45 | joe_bleau | Nope, I'm pretty sure they've got a low-end chip driving a TFT. |
| 00:24.49 | roxfan | more pointers http://www.motherboardpoint.com/t179801-p4-microcontroller-with-qvga-or-vga-lcd-controller.html |
| 00:25.00 | ds2 | do you need a MMU on there? |
| 00:25.04 | joe_bleau | Nope. |
| 00:25.26 | ds2 | doesn't ST have something those lines? |
| 00:25.38 | MonMotha | probably :) |
| 00:25.42 | ds2 | or maybe the odd MSP430s? |
| 00:25.57 | MonMotha | I didn't know they had any MSP430s that were tha tbig |
| 00:25.57 | ds2 | sorry, by ST I am thinking of their Cortex-M8 stuff |
| 00:26.23 | ds2 | according to the sales droid at the TI session, they have 430's with full blown LCD controllers |
| 00:26.26 | roxfan | m8? an unholy offspring of m3 and a8? :) |
| 00:26.31 | joe_bleau | Hmm: http://america.renesas.com/fmwk.jsp?cnt=h8_lcd_landing.jsp&fp=/products/mpumcu/h8_family/h8_lcd/ |
| 00:26.39 | MonMotha | you're looking at 77kB of RAM just for the framebuffer at 8bpp |
| 00:26.43 | ds2 | maybe it is a M3... |
| 00:26.59 | ds2 | the 430's are not merely 8 bits |
| 00:27.02 | MonMotha | now, if you can deal with 16 colors, you could halve that and do 4bpp packed palleted pixels |
| 00:27.31 | MonMotha | 77kB is a lot of RAM for just about any "small" MCU, even the ARM7/ARM9/Cortex-M3/M8 stuff |
| 00:27.32 | joe_bleau | I think we could live with 16 colors, but it's not an ideal situation. More splash with 256. |
| 00:27.40 | joe_bleau | Yeah, so I'm seeing. |
| 00:27.50 | MonMotha | plus of course you'll want some extra for your app |
| 00:27.53 | joe_bleau | Even this renesas part wants off chip ram. |
| 00:28.11 | joe_bleau | A bit...most of the project is driving the dang panel. |
| 00:28.13 | joe_bleau | Hmm. |
| 00:28.34 | MonMotha | chuck the whole thing on an FPGA? :) |
| 00:29.25 | MonMotha | that's only somewhat sarcastic. It may actually be practical |
| 00:29.59 | ds2 | screw that... god damn flash base selector |
| 00:30.47 | ds2 | oh my bad... it is M3 |
| 00:33.25 | ds2 | you can drive it in software |
| 00:33.33 | ds2 | ;) |
| 00:33.42 | roxfan | hmm http://www.luminarymicro.com/products/rdk-idm-l35.html |
| 00:34.52 | MonMotha | yeah, software LCD is fun... |
| 00:35.03 | MonMotha | and you still need the RAM for the framebuffer |
| 00:35.23 | MonMotha | though with software you can use strange framebuffer formats and text lookup (can also do that with a custom or highly configurable controller) |
| 00:36.04 | roxfan | it seems this board doesn't have external ram |
| 00:36.07 | ds2 | you can be clever in software and do with less RAM |
| 00:36.13 | MonMotha | ds2: exactly what I was saying |
| 00:36.23 | ds2 | MonMotha: yeah... typed it before I read that |
| 00:36.26 | MonMotha | ah |
| 00:36.34 | roxfan | mcu has 256kb flash + 64k sram |
| 00:36.38 | MonMotha | there are probably chips out there with LCD controllers that support RLE at least |
| 00:36.39 | ds2 | it isn't too bad to do it in software... did it as a class exercise once |
| 00:37.02 | MonMotha | that could help out a lot if you avoid horizontal gradients and similar stuff |
| 00:37.20 | ds2 | wonder if anyone makes a controler that supports sprites - ala C64/atari |
| 00:37.38 | MonMotha | possibly |
| 00:37.58 | MonMotha | that sort of stuff used to be popular on console and video arcade hardware |
| 00:38.33 | ds2 | those systems had about as much ram as the current microcontrollers |
| 00:39.40 | MonMotha | they also often ran at less than QVGA |
| 00:40.04 | MonMotha | 128x128 wasn't uncommon. They'd just draw each line twice to make it TV compatible. |
| 00:40.42 | MonMotha | and of course the pixels weren't square. The developers just had to deal with that. |
| 00:41.02 | ds2 | 320x200 on the atari |
| 00:43.12 | *** part/#edev J4k3 (n=jsuter@moon.intrastar.net) |
| 00:43.21 | MonMotha | well, the 2600 had loads of other limitations |
| 00:43.33 | MonMotha | since it only had I want to say 16kB of RAM |
| 00:44.00 | ds2 | by atari I meant the Atari 400/800 and later |
| 00:44.41 | MonMotha | ah |
| 00:44.42 | roxfan | ahh that luminary board got a panel with integrated controller and memory |
| 00:44.54 | roxfan | SSD2119 apparently |
| 00:45.06 | roxfan | http://www.solomon-systech.com/products/ssd2119.htm |
| 00:45.57 | roxfan | looks like they got a bunch of those |
| 00:48.11 | joe_bleau | That might be a good way to go--I'm wanting to use a luminary part in another piece of this system. |
| 00:48.33 | joe_bleau | It's a 6 figure job, but once you start pricing ideas out, it really adds up quick. |
| 00:49.09 | MonMotha | yeah, that's those so-called "smart panels" I was talking about |
| 00:53.41 | joe_bleau | Worried about price on those, but I'll have to check 'em out. |
| 00:54.20 | MonMotha | likely more than your current model choice, but it may make up for itself in MCU choice, no need for external RAM, etc. |
| 00:54.31 | MonMotha | you can usually drive those guys in software pretty easily |
| 00:54.33 | joe_bleau | Exactly. |
| 00:55.04 | MonMotha | heck, they usually can be made to just look like a framebuffer, so just need a MCU with an external bus or emulate one in software |
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| 06:42.43 | Mirell | Dell Mini 9 or Lenovo IdeaPad S10... |
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| 10:00.42 | witukind | Hi, anyone knowledgeable about ALIX.2 boards? |
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| 15:51.00 | joe_bleau | witukind: I'm using the 3c3 in 2 or 3 projects right now, but I don't really know what I'm doing. |
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| 16:42.01 | damunix | hi all |
| 16:42.19 | damunix | anyone uses s3c24xx arm ? |
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| 17:15.50 | mnemoc | damunix: many people :) |
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| 20:15.54 | joe_bleau | We have chumby. |
| 20:22.59 | keesj | damunix: many many, and they don't even know |
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| 22:25.41 | damunix | mnemoc && keesj: yeah I konw but I would like to have some feedback of developers |
| 22:25.41 | damunix | just to know if someone already put any kernel > .24 on it |
| 22:30.13 | damunix | I just would like to know if you had some problems with any kernel > .24, like USB problems |
| 22:32.10 | mnemoc | damunix: I haven't heard anything |
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| 22:47.05 | damunix | mnemoc: we try tu make it work with prpplague, but no issue for the moment. In fact it works with an older patch kernel, but with kernel >.20 it doesn't work, and no idea why. |
| 22:47.28 | damunix | prpplague says it is a known kernel bug, but I can't see anywhere |
| 22:47.35 | damunix | this bug report |
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| 22:49.12 | mnemoc | uh |
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