| 00:26.15 | MonMotha | joe_bleau: any more word on that LCD/AT91 project? |
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| 00:56.13 | joe_bleau | Not really. Got pricing on a potential display: ~$100. Looks like it might be a go. |
| 00:56.36 | joe_bleau | I was quizzed about the LCD driver software. The customer wants to write code for it, |
| 00:56.50 | joe_bleau | and they're concerned that I'm going to give them a set pixel function. |
| 00:57.06 | joe_bleau | Not what they have in mind--they want a bunch of libs to make everything easy. (Wimps!) |
| 00:58.09 | joe_bleau | So, we may have to consider providing footprints for enough sdram/flash (or micro-sd?) to run a cut-down Linux. |
| 00:58.19 | joe_bleau | I really need to proto something to show what the display will be able to do. |
| 00:58.41 | joe_bleau | (Hence my query the other day about QVGA hackable toys.) |
| 01:03.52 | ds2 | what about an older palm? |
| 01:09.29 | joe_bleau | Yeah, that's an option. Got lots of 'em in various states of disassembly. |
| 01:09.41 | joe_bleau | BUT, I've never written any arm native code. |
| 01:09.55 | joe_bleau | It's all been 68k PalmOS, even on the newer units. |
| 01:10.01 | ds2 | there are various Linux ports to them |
| 01:10.25 | ds2 | the DragonBall's use uClinux, the ARM ones (at least the PXA ones) run full blown linux |
| 01:10.31 | joe_bleau | Hmm. I guess I should look into that. I suspect the Zire 31 would be a good fit. |
| 01:10.49 | joe_bleau | I doubt I have dragonball with a color QVGA lcd. Come to think of it, many of those may be only 160x160. |
| 01:11.15 | joe_bleau | Higher end, I can scare up a T3 and an E (or is it an E2?) |
| 01:11.35 | ds2 | the Zire 31 might be OMAP based... might be a Linux port for that but I am not as familiar with the older omap stuff |
| 01:11.52 | joe_bleau | '31 is not OMAP. My raw IR code works on the '31. |
| 01:12.11 | joe_bleau | Lots of Z22s, but no card slot. |
| 01:13.10 | ds2 | Hmmm 31 is a 160x160 PXA255 :( |
| 01:13.35 | ds2 | or so says wikipedia |
| 01:13.45 | joe_bleau | Yeah, sounds about right. |
| 01:13.56 | ds2 | find a cheap treo 650 =) |
| 01:14.19 | ds2 | http://palmtelinux.sourceforge.net/ |
| 01:14.36 | joe_bleau | I should have a 680 available at work. |
| 01:15.04 | ds2 | shadowmite et al has a booting linux on the 650... no idea about the 680 though |
| 01:24.13 | MonMotha | joe_bleau: well, could certainly provide footprints for sufficient resources for Linux (I would have had planned on doing so anyway if I could do it within mechanical specifications and w/o increasing PCB cost) |
| 01:24.43 | MonMotha | as for demos, do you want to use your exact display, or will anything suitable work? |
| 01:25.19 | ds2 | for a quick and dirty demo, you can always use a RevC beagle board... abit $$$ but... or get a Sharp SL5500 |
| 01:25.32 | ds2 | or even a SL5000 |
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| 01:28.02 | joe_bleau | What should I be looking at to run linux+sdl? 32MB of sdr sdram? |
| 01:28.05 | joe_bleau | ddr? |
| 01:28.51 | joe_bleau | Demos: I was thinking zipit2, but I'm not sure if I can easily compile code and run it from the mini-sd. |
| 01:29.08 | ds2 | 8 or 16 should be doable |
| 01:29.15 | ds2 | or even 4 }:-) |
| 01:29.21 | joe_bleau | If I get a sample of the actual display (6.5" diag), I'll probably wire-wrap it to a driver board that I have. |
| 01:30.04 | joe_bleau | I'm guessing the sweet spot for sdram pricing is 16-32MB. Am I off? |
| 01:31.45 | joe_bleau | Can the new beagles drive a TFT panel? |
| 01:32.25 | ds2 | yes |
| 01:32.37 | ds2 | but you will need a 1.8V to NNN converter |
| 01:32.44 | ds2 | when do you need this? |
| 01:33.22 | joe_bleau | I think BB is a waste--it's too fast. Something closer to target specs probably makes more sense. |
| 01:33.44 | joe_bleau | Heck, one of the '9261 kits off eBay probably makes the most sense, as soon as we feel a bit more secure. |
| 01:33.49 | ds2 | yes but if you need a quick and dirty LCD driver... |
| 01:34.12 | ds2 | nice thing about the BB is you can build stuff on there as it is almost a desktop |
| 01:35.07 | ds2 | if you are in no hurry, I hoping to get a LCD board for the new beagle and I'd be happy to share a board at cost of the fab |
| 01:35.13 | MonMotha | joe_bleau: DDR is certainly not required. 8-32MB, depending on what you want |
| 01:35.20 | joe_bleau | The demo can be bare-metal. I'm not too worried about that. |
| 01:35.38 | MonMotha | as far as pricing, 32MB seems to be the digi-key sweet spot. In higher volume (which you may not have), it can be down lower. |
| 01:36.03 | ds2 | MonMotha: does it ever make sense to demount DDR chips from PC DIMM's? |
| 01:36.22 | joe_bleau | I see this going either with 32MB (plenty of space to grow), or run entirely from internal sram. |
| 01:36.25 | MonMotha | ds2: for prototyping sometimes |
| 01:36.39 | MonMotha | sometimes it's hard to find certain densities in small quantity |
| 01:36.52 | ds2 | hm |
| 01:36.57 | MonMotha | joe_bleau: nice thing about SDRAM is that several densities have compatible footprints |
| 01:37.00 | joe_bleau | No qualms about going to production with lots of empty footprints either. |
| 01:37.32 | joe_bleau | Been there with sram before--very handy to populate a dev board with lots of extra ram. |
| 01:37.32 | MonMotha | should be possible to design the board with capability for e.g. 4-32MB of SDRAM and a dual footprint for 8/16-bit NAND and/or possibly a NOR footprint |
| 01:38.00 | joe_bleau | Wait, I thought you talked me into booting from serial flash. |
| 01:38.01 | MonMotha | 32MB of SDRAM will likely only be 16 bits wide, so there are some memory bandwidth considerations there |
| 01:38.14 | joe_bleau | But easier routing, correct? |
| 01:38.21 | MonMotha | yes, way easier routing |
| 01:38.32 | MonMotha | if you can keep the only thing on the bus as SDRAM, it makes signal integrity much easier |
| 01:38.34 | joe_bleau | This ain't a high bandwidth app. |
| 01:38.59 | joe_bleau | Right. I don't envision anything else on that bus. UARTs, maybe some IIC. |
| 01:39.01 | MonMotha | there are also some issues with getting NAND to be reliable on AT91, it seems |
| 01:39.23 | ds2 | but but NAND is unreliable to begin with ;) |
| 01:39.36 | MonMotha | ds2: true, but the software is supposed to make it reliable |
| 01:39.42 | joe_bleau | hey, dataflash is good old reliable NOR, isn't it? |
| 01:39.46 | MonMotha | that doesn't always seem to happen correctly on AT91 |
| 01:39.53 | MonMotha | joe_bleau: yes, dataflash presents a "reliable" interface |
| 01:40.05 | MonMotha | parallel NOR flash also would, of course |
| 01:40.25 | joe_bleau | Maybe dataflash + sdram + sd card on the high end, and dataflash + internal sram on the low end. |
| 01:40.27 | ds2 | Oh in that sense |
| 01:40.49 | ds2 | does the AT91 support MMC/SD boot then? |
| 01:40.50 | MonMotha | joe_bleau: no problem |
| 01:40.53 | joe_bleau | Not sure NOR is worth the routing hassle. I don't think I'll need that much code space on the low-end. |
| 01:41.03 | MonMotha | ds2: on some models (the ones with a fixed boot ROM) |
| 01:41.20 | MonMotha | joe_bleau: not a problem then. Linux also does support making dataflash appear as MTD |
| 01:41.26 | MonMotha | you can actually run JFFS2 on it |
| 01:41.45 | joe_bleau | Little worries about the reliablility of sd cards in a fixed environment. No way to reseat the card after assembly. |
| 01:42.29 | ds2 | they have soldered on versions of SD "Card" |
| 01:42.50 | MonMotha | dataflash is also available in densities up to like 8MB |
| 01:43.33 | ds2 | MoviNAND is the name I heard |
| 01:43.43 | joe_bleau | I thought I saw 32MB or larger, but I may have crossed bits and bytes again. |
| 01:44.03 | joe_bleau | Anyway, dataflash is looking good--fast enough, easy to route, cheap enough, nice package. |
| 01:45.27 | joe_bleau | I looked over the '9261 dsheet, and it looks like I can use all the peripherals I'll need without muxing problems. |
| 01:48.03 | joe_bleau | $6 / 32MB sdram at digikey, qty 250. |
| 01:48.22 | MonMotha | When I checked a year or so ago, 32MiB was the sweet spot |
| 01:48.30 | MonMotha | could certainly have changed by now, of course |
| 01:49.32 | joe_bleau | 128mbit for 3.31 / 250. |
| 01:50.12 | joe_bleau | 512mbit 16.75 / 250 (!). |
| 01:51.02 | MonMotha | yeah, it jumps |
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| 07:33.23 | methril | yo |
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| 08:30.36 | damunix | morning |
| 08:34.42 | Mirell | 'allo |
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| 15:44.13 | kergoth | morning |
| 15:45.15 | florian | hi kergoth |
| 16:13.10 | prpplague | ~seen cosmicpenguin |
| 16:13.14 | purl | cosmicpenguin <n=nobody@66-162-99-237.static.twtelecom.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 20h 48m 29s ago, saying: 'That depends on how your makefile is constructed'. |
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| 17:08.18 | chouimat|work | is tired of fighting a xbox360 |
| 17:08.41 | florian | bbl |
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| 19:15.17 | florian | re |
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| 21:55.13 | prpplague | dijenerate: hehe, i'm guessing that chris brown is going be looking over his shoulder for along time for bajans after him |
| 22:04.10 | dijenerate | prpplague: lol |
| 22:04.18 | dijenerate | prpplague: I guess so |
| 22:08.07 | prpplague | dijenerate: i don't think he knew what kind of trouble he was getting into |
| 22:34.50 | dijenerate | prpplague: clearly not |
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| 23:59.12 | prpplague | ho ho ho |
| 23:59.19 | prpplague | merry freakin layoffs |
| 23:59.47 | CosmicPenguin | great times, huh? |