| 00:55.55 | wmat | ~purl seen prpplague |
| 00:55.58 | purl | prpplague <n=prpplagu@ppp-70-244-171-199.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #edev, 3d 21h 56m 50s ago, saying: 'you guys will have to forgive me if i'm a talkative about job hunting, as i am trying to be optimistic about the whole deal'. |
| 00:55.58 | wmat | oops |
| 00:56.14 | wmat | oh, that works |
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| 01:09.00 | Mirell | Hmm.. |
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| 06:59.40 | psufan | hi |
| 06:59.52 | psufan | i was referred here by flyback to ask something |
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| 08:05.17 | landley | Something specific? |
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| 09:34.50 | methril | yo |
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| 16:45.30 | chouimat | morning |
| 16:51.05 | florian | hi chouimat |
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| 17:51.31 | Mirell | *yawn* |
| 17:57.01 | agaffney | concurs |
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| 18:02.06 | solar | yes |
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| 18:49.04 | ds2 | kergoth: you guys getting today off? |
| 18:49.15 | kergoth | yep |
| 18:49.35 | ds2 | nice. |
| 18:50.04 | mnemoc | may i ask why? |
| 18:50.15 | ds2 | We honor our past leaders |
| 18:50.21 | ds2 | (We == USA) |
| 18:50.58 | mnemoc | that explains why my boss (@usa) hasn't bother me today |
| 18:51.22 | Crofton|work | heh |
| 18:51.32 | Crofton|work | Not everyone gets the day off |
| 18:51.47 | ds2 | Crofton|work: I take it, you did not? |
| 18:51.54 | Crofton|work | Retail has "President's day" sales |
| 18:52.09 | kergoth | :\ |
| 18:52.22 | Crofton|work | Well, I had a physical therapy appt this morning |
| 18:52.40 | kergoth | 's working on his homework today for class on wed |
| 18:52.50 | Crofton|work | good, plan ahead |
| 18:52.53 | ds2 | kergoth: what class are you taking? |
| 18:53.43 | kergoth | just english 101, intermediate algebra, and a woodworking class |
| 18:53.50 | kergoth | first semester, starting toward a cs degree |
| 18:53.55 | ds2 | ah |
| 18:54.06 | ds2 | who is offering the WW class? |
| 18:55.20 | kergoth | the community college i'm going to has some wood classes, a couple basics ones, then cabinetmaking and such. the actual classes are at a nearby high school woodshop though |
| 18:55.42 | kergoth | since obviously the college doesn't have the facilities |
| 18:55.55 | ds2 | nice |
| 18:56.02 | ds2 | shop is always fun |
| 18:56.08 | kergoth | aye |
| 18:56.17 | kergoth | needed a hobby other than coding, since doing it for a job has ruined it |
| 18:56.59 | ds2 | I am surprise they (powers to be) let the HS have a shop of any sort |
| 18:57.17 | kergoth | heh, given the danger of the equipment? |
| 18:57.29 | ds2 | yep |
| 18:58.06 | kergoth | they even have a CNC lathe in the shop |
| 18:58.12 | kergoth | i was surprised by how well equipped the place is |
| 18:58.22 | ds2 | *drool* |
| 18:58.58 | ds2 | gone through all the shop classes at the JC here...it'll be 5-10 years before I can repeat them |
| 18:59.23 | kergoth | they put a limit on it? |
| 18:59.56 | ds2 | yeah, current policy is no repeating a class within either 5 or 10 years unless you failed it |
| 19:00.02 | ds2 | only exception is PE |
| 19:00.12 | Crofton|work | that is motivation to fail fun classes |
| 19:00.13 | kergoth | that's silly |
| 19:00.25 | kergoth | there's a guy that's taken this class like every semester for 5 years or something |
| 19:00.29 | kergoth | just keeps doing it |
| 19:00.41 | kergoth | he knows almost as much as the instructor, we ask him questions too now |
| 19:01.28 | ds2 | they are a great deal, you usually can't rent a half equipped shop for even 5x the cost of the fees at a JC |
| 19:04.05 | kergoth | we had to pay 3 credits ($79*3) and a shop fee ($60) |
| 19:04.20 | kergoth | once a week from the end of jan through mid may |
| 19:04.36 | ds2 | try renting a shop for the same number of hours |
| 19:05.01 | kergoth | heh, probably better off buying the equipment slowly, at least if you have a garage to put it in |
| 19:05.20 | ds2 | yep |
| 19:06.42 | ds2 | this is a local place that rents out a shop. equipment is in poor shape, not well equipped: http://www.techshop.ws/Join_Now.html |
| 19:06.50 | ds2 | and to use their equipment, you must take a class |
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| 19:42.09 | sjhill | hey chouimat |
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| 19:42.16 | sjhill | lo' Crofton|work |
| 19:42.19 | sjhill | howdy dfarnsworth |
| 19:42.24 | Crofton|work | gm |
| 19:42.27 | sjhill | 'sup keesj |
| 19:42.30 | sjhill | 'sup kergoth |
| 19:42.32 | landley | Morning sjhill. |
| 19:42.36 | sjhill | hey landley! |
| 19:42.42 | landley | How goes stuff? |
| 19:42.58 | sjhill | busy, employed, and happy |
| 19:43.02 | landley | Woot. |
| 19:43.05 | sjhill | how about yoU? |
| 19:43.15 | landley | Two out of three. |
| 19:43.18 | landley | Cedar pollen. |
| 19:43.27 | landley | I be allergic, it seems. |
| 19:43.47 | kergoth | hey sjhill |
| 19:44.05 | landley | I notice an absence of prpplague. HIs job finally implode? |
| 19:44.15 | florian | re |
| 19:44.33 | sjhill | dunno' |
| 19:44.39 | sjhill | i need to talk to prpplague too |
| 19:44.45 | mnemoc | landley: last week he said after a meeting that he had 3-4 months there, until the m8050 project finished |
| 19:44.55 | mnemoc | finishs* |
| 19:45.16 | sjhill | mnemoc: ur speling suks |
| 19:45.23 | mnemoc | :( |
| 19:45.32 | sjhill | mnemoc: i was just kidding :) |
| 19:45.54 | florian | landley: maybe the whole company imploded ;) |
| 19:46.08 | chouimat | sjhill: he's getting ready for the "Rearlee rong spelin dai (Amerika, Cannerderr and Grate Britten)" |
| 19:46.18 | mnemoc | sjhill: actually I can't even read correctly and my fingers are frozen |
| 19:47.03 | sjhill | yikes |
| 19:47.22 | sjhill | okay, general development question for everyone |
| 19:47.36 | chouimat | the answer is 42 |
| 19:47.44 | sjhill | actually, it is for me |
| 19:47.57 | sjhill | 42 is my badge number from my fraternity, but i digress |
| 19:48.15 | landley | If you don't ask the question soon we're going to start Rocky Horroring the pauses. |
| 19:48.22 | sjhill | i am 6 Linux kernel versions behind |
| 19:48.30 | sjhill | for a number of my platforms |
| 19:48.30 | landley | So about 2.6.23? |
| 19:48.37 | sjhill | 2.6.21 |
| 19:48.46 | sjhill | is it at 2.6.29? |
| 19:48.49 | landley | 2.6.29 is in development. |
| 19:48.51 | chouimat | oufff I thought I was talking of 2.0.0 ;) |
| 19:48.52 | landley | -rc4 at least. |
| 19:48.57 | chouimat | s/I/he |
| 19:49.01 | sjhill | *sigh* |
| 19:49.06 | sjhill | sometimes being an architect sucks |
| 19:49.10 | sjhill | anyway |
| 19:49.23 | landley | Nope, -rc5 dropped. I should test that for regressions... |
| 19:49.39 | sjhill | anyone have a method of patching/upgrading like this? |
| 19:49.56 | chouimat | sjhill: I'm at 2.6.12.6, 2.6.22.7 and 2.6.22.18 (depending of the version of the product and platform) and I forgot 2.6.18 |
| 19:50.00 | landley | sjhill: I use miniconfigs, but you still have to tweak 'em when they rename config symbols. |
| 19:50.07 | landley | As they did for IDE disk support in 2.6.28. |
| 19:50.45 | landley | Oh, and they invent new config symbols for things that didn't used to be configurable, such as the recently added CONFIG_FILE_LOCKING. |
| 19:50.58 | chouimat | haha |
| 19:51.08 | sjhill | miniconfigs? |
| 19:51.48 | landley | I wrote up some docs once: http://lwn.net/Articles/161086/ |
| 19:52.38 | landley | I have a script that will convert a .config into a miniconfig: http://landley.net/hg/firmware/file/tip/sources/toys/miniconfig.sh |
| 19:52.41 | landley | It's ugly and slow, but it works. |
| 19:52.56 | landley | Basically, the theory behind a miniconfig is this: |
| 19:53.12 | landley | Imaging you start from "allnoconfig", then go through menuconfig, switching on symbols and writing down which symbols you switched on. |
| 19:53.27 | landley | You don't record any dependency information, or any default values, you just record the changes you had to make to get from allnoconfig to what you want. |
| 19:53.36 | landley | That list of symbol=value is your miniconfig. |
| 19:53.45 | sjhill | ok |
| 19:53.54 | sjhill | i can see the use of that |
| 19:54.06 | landley | They look like this: http://landley.net/hg/firmware/file/fcecc8d854ea/sources/targets/i686/miniconfig-linux |
| 19:54.36 | landley | Actually http://landley.net/hg/firmware/file/tip/sources/targets/ and then look at the miniconfig-linux entries in each subdirectory. |
| 19:54.51 | landley | They're a lot more portable than normal configs. |
| 19:55.09 | landley | The way you use 'em (with any kernel after 2.6.16) is "make allnoconfig KCONFIG_ALLCONFIG=/path/to/your/mini.config" |
| 19:55.31 | landley | I have patches to improve the UI, but they keep getting rejected because my script to boil down a big .config into a miniconfig is so evil, and I haven't hacked kconfig to do it itself. |
| 19:56.08 | landley | The main improvement to the UI is "if your miniconfig tries to set an unknown symbol, something is wrong, treat that as a build break error". |
| 19:56.24 | sjhill | ok |
| 19:56.33 | landley | That means one of the symbols you're setting got renamed or removed, and you have to fix it up by hand. |
| 19:57.09 | chouimat | landley: if they think you're script is evil ... they have a weak definition of it ;) |
| 19:57.36 | landley | Basically, if you grab my miniconfig.sh, cd into your kernel directory, "cp .config tempname", and then "ARCH=blah ./miniconfig.sh tempname" it'll boil it down to mini.conf. |
| 19:57.43 | landley | Taking _FOREVER_ to do so, which is most of the evil. |
| 19:58.12 | landley | What it's doing in THEORY is fairly simple, remove each line in order and run "make oldconfig" to see if you get the original .config back. If not, you needed that line. Keep only the lines you need. |
| 19:58.41 | landley | The other reason I like miniconfig files is they're human readable and human editable. I understand what it's DOING. |
| 19:58.50 | landley | Unlike .config which stopped being human editable back around 1998. |
| 19:58.59 | sjhill | right |
| 19:59.17 | chouimat | landley: it's what I still like about BSD the config command :) |
| 19:59.33 | landley | Every couple years I resubmit the miniconfig UI improvement patches to the kernel list, and roman zippel throws a wobbly, and I go away again. |
| 19:59.48 | landley | It's coming up to about time to resubmit again, I suppose... |
| 20:00.10 | ds2 | landley: are you in contact with the Tim, et al? |
| 20:00.23 | landley | ds2: which the Tim would that be. Riker? |
| 20:00.30 | ds2 | Tim Bird |
| 20:00.33 | mnemoc | stupid question, what does it mean to use both console=tty0 console=ttyS0,... ? tty0 gets bound to ttyS0? |
| 20:00.36 | landley | ds2: on and off. |
| 20:00.43 | landley | Last time I saw him was either OLS or CELF. |
| 20:00.49 | ds2 | mnemoc: no, console goes to both devices |
| 20:00.56 | landley | I'm probably not going to CELF this year, I missed the submission deadline. |
| 20:01.01 | mnemoc | ds2: ah, thanks |
| 20:01.18 | ds2 | landley: he's doing a lot of the tiny linux stuff; maybe you can muster some more people beind your submission? |
| 20:01.24 | landley | sjhill: that won't help with the patches, but does it help with the .config porting maybe? |
| 20:01.33 | sjhill | config porting definitely |
| 20:01.40 | sjhill | patches is the big worry |
| 20:01.54 | sjhill | i may have to go minor patch by minor patch |
| 20:02.16 | landley | Keep in mind that about once a year they change stuff in the .config that breaks using an old version's miniconfig. Renaming symbols, introducing new menu guards, adding symbols for things that used to be hardwired... |
| 20:02.23 | landley | They've done all 3 in the past 3 years. :( |
| 20:03.10 | landley | Note that http://landley.net/hg/firmware/log/07bc51eeea30/sources/targets/i686/miniconfig-linux might help you see what I had to change to keep my miniconfigs working... |
| 20:03.59 | ds2 | landley: Is it okay if I cite this as yet another way of shrinking the kernel ? This is for a talk |
| 20:04.18 | landley | Er, no it won't because I renamed a directory so the history of that file only goes back 6 months. :( |
| 20:04.24 | landley | ds2: sure. |
| 20:04.33 | landley | This is more a UI improvement than a kernel shrink, though. |
| 20:04.38 | ds2 | landley: got a URL or a page I can refer to? |
| 20:04.41 | landley | Human readable configs. |
| 20:04.51 | landley | ds2: for miniconfig? Um, the lwn one I linked earlier? |
| 20:04.57 | ds2 | okay, I'll put it under the tools stuff |
| 20:05.21 | ds2 | sorry, missed it |
| 20:05.22 | landley | I write up documentation when I submit. That may not have been the most recent one... |
| 20:05.25 | ds2 | debugging 2 other things at once |
| 20:05.33 | landley | http://lwn.net/Articles/161086/ |
| 20:05.44 | ds2 | backscroll found it, thanks. |
| 20:07.24 | landley | This is one of my dozens of "if I had time, I'd dig this up and do something with it" items. |
| 20:07.40 | landley | When I say "my todo list runneth over", this probably doesn't indicate the archaeological depths it goes to. |
| 20:07.58 | landley | This was one of my projects from about 2005. |
| 20:08.17 | ds2 | that's a mere 4 years ago |
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| 20:39.05 | keesj | sent his Nail Kit to prpplague |
| 20:39.34 | mnemoc | keesj: defective? |
| 20:40.11 | keesj | probably |
| 20:40.42 | keesj | openocd can't detect the flash anymore. might be a openocd issue |
| 20:44.01 | keesj | it was intersting enough for him to look at apparently :p |
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| 21:27.04 | flameman | anybody with fonera here ? |
| 21:31.58 | JoeLlama | neat! v |
| 21:31.58 | JoeLlama | * ft_ (n=pytey@84.233.192 |
| 21:32.00 | JoeLlama | oops |
| 21:32.09 | JoeLlama | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FON |
| 21:34.31 | flameman | yes |
| 21:35.11 | flameman | here i an developing a new kernel module to add a mmc-spi-over-gpio |
| 21:35.38 | flameman | what exists is limited to the first 512Mb ... i d like to use 2Gb MMC/SD card |
| 21:36.44 | JoeLlama | neato |
| 21:37.49 | flameman | ? |
| 21:48.02 | pytey | JoeLlama: eh? |
| 21:59.56 | flameman | anybody interested ? |
| 22:12.41 | methril|laptop | interested in what? flameman? |
| 22:13.03 | flameman | <flameman> here i an developing a new kernel module to add a mmc-spi-over-gpio |
| 22:13.03 | flameman | <flameman> what exists is limited to the first 512Mb ... i d like to use 2Gb MMC/SD card |
| 22:13.03 | flameman | <JoeLlama> neato |
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| 22:13.47 | flameman | i was speaking about fonera |
| 22:13.55 | methril|laptop | i've one |
| 22:14.05 | methril|laptop | but old one |
| 22:14.17 | flameman | 2100 ? |
| 22:14.26 | methril|laptop | wait a second |
| 22:14.27 | JoeLlama | mopo & neato |
| 22:14.30 | JoeLlama | oops |
| 22:14.35 | JoeLlama | moo |
| 22:17.13 | methril|laptop | flameman: yes |
| 22:18.02 | flameman | good :) |
| 22:18.08 | flameman | you can easily add a mmc-sd card |
| 22:18.25 | methril|laptop | oh!! i've to look for how to do it :) |
| 22:18.50 | flameman | the problem is ... the driver is limited to the first 512Mb |
| 22:19.12 | flameman | I am rewriting it to auto detect the MMC-SD size |
| 22:19.20 | flameman | (2Gb in my case) |
| 22:19.46 | flameman | actually i have a dirty hack ... but i can boot with root=/dev/mmc3 |
| 22:19.53 | methril|laptop | i've one of 4 GB (uSD) but works as SD with an adapter |
| 22:20.27 | flameman | good, any way there is this software limitation to be fixed in a pretty way |
| 22:20.46 | flameman | the problem is: there are different version of MMC card |
| 22:20.54 | flameman | the v1 is for card up to 512Mb |
| 22:21.02 | flameman | the v2 is from 1Gb to ... 4Gb |
| 22:21.16 | flameman | to identify a card you need to understand the identify bits |
| 22:21.29 | flameman | well they are not so good to be understood |
| 22:25.50 | flameman | methril|laptop what do you have planned to do with your fonera ? |
| 22:26.03 | methril|laptop | nothing at the moment |
| 22:26.12 | methril|laptop | i've other projects in mind |
| 22:26.19 | methril|laptop | why? |
| 22:26.53 | methril|laptop | if you propose some interesting project, i could do something :) |
| 22:27.07 | agaffney | my fonera is acting as a wireless bridge for my xbox |
| 22:27.08 | flameman | example ? |
| 22:28.01 | methril|laptop | example of projects? or example of what? |
| 22:28.52 | flameman | of projects in your mind |
| 22:34.13 | ds2 | make RTAI work on ARM |
| 22:34.41 | flameman | too complicated for me |
| 22:34.50 | pytey | are there any fonera coupon codes these days? |
| 22:35.25 | ds2 | methril: what kind of projects interest you? |
| 22:37.25 | methril|laptop | well, i'm related to OpenMoko, u-boot & openocd |
| 22:37.38 | methril|laptop | the RTAI looks interesting :) |
| 22:37.53 | methril|laptop | and port some sw stack to new HW |
| 22:37.53 | flameman | ipaq here |
| 22:38.43 | landley | I didn't explicitly say (because it wouldn't have belonged on the FWL mailing list), but this past week was 40 hours. |
| 22:39.22 | ds2 | FWL mailing list? |
| 22:39.52 | flameman | ipaq 36** is sa1100 arm ... and it's the only arm machine i have |
| 22:40.16 | flameman | unfortunately the kernel 2.6 is not supporting the sleeve pcmcia .. so nothing interesting for me |
| 22:41.16 | landley | Ok, wrong channel. :) |
| 22:41.32 | ds2 | oh |
| 22:42.08 | flameman | anybody with the original ibm walnut ? |
| 22:45.43 | methril|laptop | nop |
| 22:50.08 | methril|ZZzz | g' night |
| 22:56.06 | methril|ZZzz | flameman: before to go to sleep, could you send me an e-mail with your mmc hack proposal? i'd like to have a look |
| 22:56.45 | dfarnsworth | oops, looks like I missed sjhill |
| 22:59.51 | Mirell | Hmm... |
| 23:00.52 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@p57BD2931.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:02.14 | flameman | methril|ZZzz i opened a ewiki page |
| 23:02.25 | flameman | anyway flamemaniii@gmail.com |
| 23:22.39 | wmat | wishes more people would complete their User page on elinux.org ;) |
| 23:44.20 | *** join/#edev brolin (n=brolin@190.157.13.75) |