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| 00:27.38 | Mirell | Oh, GIMP versus Photoshop debate... |
| 00:27.53 | Mirell | I used GIMP onced. And almost threw my laptop at the wall. |
| 00:31.44 | MonMotha | Mirell: heh. I find it more than adequate for most usages, but I can imagine professionals (or simply those used to Photoshop) would find things to not like |
| 00:31.58 | MonMotha | you need a good window manager |
| 00:42.02 | Mirell | I'm the worst doodler and used it trying to just set up a nice flyer... |
| 00:42.13 | Mirell | Its text rendering drove me mad. |
| 00:42.47 | MonMotha | for a flyer, you should probably consider Inkscape |
| 00:42.58 | MonMotha | (or Illustrator, if you're an Adobe person) |
| 00:43.13 | Mirell | I ended up just using Photoshop at the time. |
| 00:43.20 | Mirell | But yah, Illustrator or Inkscape. |
| 00:43.24 | Mirell | But no GIMP. |
| 00:43.33 | MonMotha | well, GIMP isn't really designed for making that sort of thing |
| 00:43.39 | ds2 | Corel is nice |
| 00:43.46 | MonMotha | Photoshop isn't intended for it, but caters to it anyway since everybody demands that sort of thing from it. |
| 00:43.52 | ds2 | the old corels are light weight and work reasonably well |
| 00:44.16 | MonMotha | now if you REALLY want to drive yourself up a wall, try using Labview :) |
| 00:44.42 | ds2 | is that before or after one hangs themselves with the GPIB cables? ;) |
| 00:44.47 | MonMotha | graphical "programming", which is just a thin GUI layered over C |
| 00:44.55 | MonMotha | oh, and no grid snap, so nothing is lined up |
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| 06:40.23 | methril|work | yo |
| 06:41.05 | Mirell | 'lo methril|work. Speak! ^^ |
| 06:41.20 | methril|work | well, only said good morning :) |
| 06:41.41 | methril|work | it's not a lot of traffic right now |
| 06:41.48 | methril|work | i miss prpplague |
| 06:41.52 | Mirell | methril|work: I know. But I seem to reply to you every wee early morning for hellos, so decided to shake things up a bit. ^^ |
| 06:42.18 | methril|work | well, what are you working right now? |
| 06:42.23 | Mirell | Yah, prpplague is missed. |
| 06:43.05 | methril|work | i'm working in some OpenMoko projects |
| 06:43.09 | Mirell | methril|work: Avoiding getting SPARC cross-compiling currently. This week I got ARMV5L EABI and ARMV6L EABI cross-compiling working, with uClibc/uClibc++ support, so at least I feel accomplished. ^^ |
| 06:43.40 | Mirell | Also debating at poking at Android and ripping out their patches for QEMU and see why that hasn't been pushed upstream. |
| 06:43.42 | methril|work | SPARC as embedded system? |
| 06:44.27 | Mirell | methril|work: Not exactly. Basically my goal is to do everything QEMU can emulate as a system, at minimum, and cross-compile anything else people request. |
| 06:44.50 | Mirell | And uClibc/uClibc++ for all the architectures seem to be a unique factor as well. |
| 06:44.57 | methril|work | :O i like qemu, and lately is getting more and more complex |
| 06:45.10 | Mirell | I honestly haven't even tried to look at the code-base. |
| 06:45.13 | methril|work | looks like is going to be the facto emulator |
| 06:45.48 | methril|work | well, almost every embedded related uses it |
| 06:45.48 | Mirell | Mainly because that's deep enough I honestly don't understand what's going on. |
| 06:46.19 | Mirell | Yah. |
| 06:46.43 | Mirell | Sun's attempt at VirtualBox used QEMU even. |
| 06:46.54 | methril|work | uf!! this is new for me :) |
| 06:47.29 | methril|work | i'd like to know more about qemu, but time flies |
| 06:47.36 | methril|work | ^^ |
| 06:47.41 | Mirell | Why re-write an x86 emulator when you're trying to do open-source emulation, when QEMU does a perfectly good job, especially with KVM these days. |
| 06:48.17 | methril|work | i didn't test jet the KVM-QEMU combination |
| 06:49.45 | solar | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:50.33 | solar | oh fun chats in here |
| 07:08.25 | Mirell | methril|work: It basically makes it near native. It's unfortunate though QEMU baseline hasn't merged the latest KVM branch, though, which allows more than one CPU |
| 07:08.46 | Mirell | Since doing stuff on an 8-core machine makes it wanted. ^^ |
| 07:09.07 | methril|work | i'm waiting my 8 core machine :) |
| 07:09.16 | methril|work | i'll take a look when it arrives |
| 07:09.42 | methril|work | chat in this channel allways made me learn something |
| 07:11.26 | Mirell | methril|work: I have an 8-core as a server, I still want a Mac Pro 8-core machine. ^^ |
| 07:11.49 | methril|work | this is what i'm waiting (it's a donation) :) |
| 07:12.33 | Mirell | 8-Core and 32GB of RAM. Let me tell you, I *never* do any compiles on my laptop anymore. |
| 07:13.20 | solar | is soon to be testing quad quad cores :) |
| 07:13.24 | MonMotha | can you "make -j" the Linux kernel without running out of RAM? |
| 07:14.34 | methril|work | well i don't know if i'm having 32 GB of RAM |
| 07:15.09 | solar | never ran out ram no matter what crazy -j options I've thrown at any pid |
| 07:15.33 | Mirell | MonMotha: I do make -j9, and yah. Before I upgraded to 2.6.29 and 2.6.29.1 shortly thereafter, the machine never hit swap for the several months it was up. Still hasn't now... |
| 07:16.27 | Mirell | solar: *jealous* |
| 07:18.03 | solar | outside of beefy databases I don't generally see the need for such specs |
| 07:18.45 | Mirell | I agree, since a lot of applications are still single threaded, |
| 07:18.51 | Mirell | But it still is nice. |
| 07:18.58 | MonMotha | 8 cores? well, one for firefox... |
| 07:19.26 | solar | it would be 16 true cores. |
| 07:19.42 | solar | LS44 from IBM for the bladecenter |
| 07:21.03 | solar | erp. LS42 |
| 07:21.04 | methril|work | :O |
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| 07:21.53 | ds2 | try - |
| 07:22.08 | ds2 | make MAKE="make -j 16" -j 16 |
| 07:22.19 | solar | hrmm |
| 07:24.26 | methril|work | Mirell: look at this: http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/xserve?mco=NDQ4ODYzMA |
| 07:26.22 | Mirell | methril|work: I got a Dell server with 32GB of RAM, mirrored 250GB drives, and dual quad-core Xeons at 2.5Ghz for less than $3K.. |
| 07:26.47 | Mirell | methril|work: So the Xservers are kind of meh. I still want a Mac Pro because I love Mac hardware, but for servers, still way overpriced. ^^ |
| 07:27.03 | methril|work | Mirell: What do you prefer Dell, IBM, HP or Mac? |
| 07:27.09 | methril|work | i've to choose one |
| 07:27.31 | methril|work | s/i've/if you have |
| 07:27.33 | Mirell | methril|work: If money is no object, HP or IBM. |
| 07:27.55 | methril|work | if money is object: Dell? |
| 07:28.10 | Mirell | methril|work: Still depends. For a small start up, like I'm trying to do, yes. |
| 07:28.28 | Mirell | methril|work: If you're trying to do enterprise services, but still on a tight budget, go for HP. |
| 07:28.49 | methril|work | well, i'm less than a small startup :) |
| 07:29.03 | solar | methril|work: if money is an object. supermicro has the new nehalem at a very reasonable price |
| 07:29.49 | Mirell | I have not looked at SuperMicro... |
| 07:29.59 | methril|work | neither do i |
| 07:30.04 | solar | if power is no problem then heh. I've got a few hundred servers on fire-sale |
| 07:30.21 | Mirell | I know the Dell server I got, the initial one blew a power supply, but I still blame that on my curse of PSUs. Otherwise, the thing has been running just fine for months. |
| 07:30.26 | methril|work | how much? :) |
| 07:30.47 | solar | 10c on the dollar would be nice |
| 07:31.04 | methril|work | :) |
| 07:32.06 | solar | http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/uk/eserver/bladecenter/hs20/more_info.html |
| 07:32.10 | solar | those |
| 07:33.03 | solar | and looks like 78 of them left |
| 07:35.26 | Mirell | solar: I'd be legimately interested in one, depending on the price. |
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| 08:47.27 | solar | Mirell: sadly it's not one. 1 = 14 or 1=1+chassis most likely. |
| 08:47.52 | solar | ie.. It's a blade vs a pizza box |
| 08:48.02 | solar | florian has mail |
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| 08:48.48 | florian | looks |
| 08:49.50 | florian | solar: I can't find it... |
| 08:53.43 | florian | ah the gpe list... |
| 08:53.58 | solar | gpe-list@linuxtogo.org does not like you? |
| 08:55.07 | florian | it does like me but it takes a few minutes |
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| 09:19.34 | Mirell | solar: Alas! I'd want two or three more of the server we have, but definitely not 14. :D |
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| 09:25.27 | florian | Mirell, solar: You are talking about an IBM bladecenter? |
| 09:33.01 | Mirell | florian: That's what solar has for sale. I just have a little ol' Dell PowerEdge 2900 myself. |
| 09:33.45 | florian | Mirell: if it's cheap and you have a room with strong walls :) |
| 09:34.15 | florian | We use one here at kc - relible, flexible and used blades are dirt cheap :) |
| 09:34.27 | Mirell | florian: I actually just moved into an apartment with two bedrooms. Let me tell you, not having the server in the den makes for better movie watching. ^^ |
| 09:36.53 | florian | :-) |
| 09:45.37 | solar | florian: yeah. bladecenters are my day job. |
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| 09:58.20 | solar | ds2: btw. make distclean ; echo | make oldconfig ; uptime ; date ; time make MAKE="make -j16" -j16 vmlinux ; date; uptime = 2m24.573s load average: 211.80, 99.01, 37.38 on 2x dual core w only 16G of ram. |
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| 14:55.39 | kergoth | morning |
| 15:09.32 | Mirell | Mornin'. |
| 15:10.04 | Mirell | I really shouldn't get too bored in the morning. |
| 15:16.16 | kergoth | heh |
| 15:16.48 | Mirell | Mainly because I decided to shave my head because I needed a haircut. |
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| 16:03.55 | wamty | I have a SDIO module which on soft reboot, does not work. It is connected to the MMC bus. On reboot when the MMC core probes and sends a zero OCR it basically powers down. |
| 16:04.00 | wamty | if I flip the reset switch, or unplug and plug the power, it does probe ok. |
| 16:04.08 | wamty | t he SDIO module contains a Marvell 8686 802.11b/g card |
| 16:04.18 | wamty | I have the datasheet for the Marvell chip, but I don't have access to all the pins in this module. |
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| 20:28.58 | prpplague | ~seen CosmicPenguin |
| 20:29.00 | purl | cosmicpenguin <n=nobody@66-162-99-237.static.twtelecom.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #edev, 9d 4h 18m 50s ago, saying: 'especiallly 32'. |
| 20:29.13 | chouimat | hi |
| 20:29.24 | prpplague | chouimat: hey bud |
| 20:29.38 | chouimat | prpplague: how things? |
| 20:29.54 | prpplague | chouimat: not too bad, not great, but not bad |
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| 20:30.47 | chouimat | prpplague: here they are good, except some of my coworkers are loud ... |
| 20:31.04 | mnemoc | wb prpplague |
| 20:31.15 | prpplague | mnemoc: greetings |
| 20:31.19 | prpplague | chouimat: dandy |
| 20:32.03 | chouimat | prpplague: lately I bricked 4 devices because of the noise ... flash_eraseall /dev/mtd0 is not good :) |
| 20:32.13 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:32.37 | chouimat | prpplague: seems my 14 to 20 pins adapter worked |
| 20:33.09 | mnemoc | prpplague: if you have a minute, may you please look for the tracking number of my parcel? :) |
| 20:34.06 | prpplague | mnemoc: yea, i'm sorry just been very very busy job hunting, i'll try to find it here in just a little while |
| 20:34.34 | mnemoc | prpplague: so the "end of april" deadline still in place? :( I'm very sorry to hear it |
| 20:34.44 | kergoth | prpplague: no luck on the job front yet? :( |
| 20:35.25 | mnemoc | i had the hope they suddenly decide to cut management and keep engieneering :\ |
| 20:35.33 | prpplague | kergoth: nothing yet |
| 20:36.12 | prpplague | mnemoc: yea there is still some talk about a management change, the deadline has been pushed back to mid May |
| 20:36.28 | chouimat | prpplague: we are hiring btw :) |
| 20:36.33 | solar | wonders what cool if any new devices you might be working on |
| 20:36.37 | prpplague | chouimat: oh? |
| 20:36.54 | prpplague | solar: just variations of the M8050 |
| 20:37.10 | prpplague | i've have been hacking a little on the rz1710 lately |
| 20:37.30 | prpplague | you can get one for about $30USD and basically make it into a hammer board |
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| 20:39.21 | chouimat | prpplague: http://www.axentra.com/en/career/index.html |
| 20:39.29 | solar | yeah the 2410's seem really cheap on the market these days. |
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| 20:46.16 | prpplague | i did have a conversation with the zipit folks |
| 20:46.30 | prpplague | possible opportuinity there, but they would want me to move |
| 20:50.49 | prpplague | solar: the beauty of the rz1710 is that the i/o board with the buttons and cradle interfaces is seperate from the cpu board, which means you just unplug the i/o board and plug your "hack" board into it |
| 21:01.24 | ds2 | Hey prpplague! |
| 21:01.45 | prpplague | ds2: greetings earthling |
| 21:02.32 | ds2 | how's the supply of large cardboard boxes in your area? :) |
| 21:04.23 | ds2 | waits for the headlines of fridge boxes getting stolen, leaving the fridge behind |
| 21:05.47 | prpplague | ds2: hehe |
| 21:06.06 | prpplague | ds2: yea, we aren't too bad here, iirc the job rate just hit 10% unemployed |
| 21:06.19 | ds2 | prpplague: 10% overall or 10% in tech? |
| 21:06.55 | prpplague | overall |
| 21:07.02 | ds2 | hmmm |
| 21:07.14 | ds2 | what city are you in again? |
| 21:07.20 | prpplague | dallas/ft.worth |
| 21:07.43 | ds2 | not that close to the southern border |
| 21:08.02 | ds2 | make me wonder what the numbers are like further south like in San Antonio |
| 21:08.10 | ds2 | or El paso |
| 21:08.44 | prpplague | ds2: i'm about 10 hours away from the border |
| 21:09.29 | ds2 | prpplague: that far? thought you were closer then I (SF) am... so that is 10% real percent w/o a very high south of the border labor factor |
| 21:09.47 | prpplague | ds2: hehe, texas is a big place |
| 21:10.06 | ds2 | so I noticed |
| 21:10.36 | ds2 | might be coming through dallas or outskirts of it later in the year (might be sooner if the downward spiral accelerates) |
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| 21:11.24 | ds2 | prpplague: btw, some guy posted my latest BB hack... taking a dev board toward soemthing instead of your usual reverse of taking something toward a dev board hacking |
| 21:11.52 | prpplague | ds2: ?? |
| 21:13.05 | prpplague | ds2: just did a quick google maps directions, the closest border crossing into mexico from where i am at is 7.5 hours away |
| 21:13.24 | ds2 | prpplague: I made the makezine blog |
| 21:13.40 | mnemoc | thought zipit was dead :| |
| 21:13.42 | ds2 | 7.5 is about as far as I am |
| 21:13.52 | prpplague | ds2: oh was that your beagle handheld? |
| 21:13.59 | ds2 | prpplague: yeah |
| 21:14.06 | prpplague | ds2: ahh dandy! |
| 21:14.17 | Crofton|work | zipit 2 I think |
| 21:14.20 | prpplague | ds2: the beagle board PuppE board should be available soon |
| 21:14.21 | ds2 | thought I mention it cuz this is the opposite direction of what you do ;) |
| 21:14.39 | ds2 | prpplague: nice... but is TCT going to survive? |
| 21:14.50 | prpplague | mnemoc: their parent company is doing other things besides the z2 |
| 21:14.56 | prpplague | ds2: far as i know |
| 21:15.13 | prpplague | ds2: i really haven't been informed much on the business side of stuff |
| 21:15.16 | ds2 | prpplague: isn't it going to lack a software guy in one possible scenario? |
| 21:15.38 | mnemoc | prpplague: cool |
| 21:15.49 | prpplague | ds2: naw, i've showed mr.herod how to get OSS devrs, i.e. code for hardware |
| 21:16.05 | prpplague | ds2: that's what he is doing for the PuppE board |
| 21:16.17 | prpplague | ds2: (as i have no time to do it) |
| 21:16.34 | ds2 | prpplague: I see... need anyone? :D my main client has issued walking papers so... |
| 21:17.11 | mnemoc | prpplague: http://www.aeronix.com ? looks very interesting |
| 21:18.56 | prpplague | ds2: i'll ask mr.herod if he needs anyone else for the PuppE board dev |
| 21:19.28 | ds2 | prpplague: thanks |
| 21:19.57 | ds2 | prpplague: so how's life on the evil side? Satan^H^H^H^H^H^H Redmond treating you well? |
| 21:20.19 | prpplague | ds2: actually haven't been doing much of the wince stuff atm |
| 21:20.26 | prpplague | mostly customizing the 8050 |
| 21:20.43 | ds2 | so the 8050 did get some interest? |
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| 21:31.47 | prpplague | ds2: yea some, i expected it would, just didn't know how well the sales people would handle it though |
| 21:33.50 | *** join/#edev wamty (n=ktebit@77.42.142.98) |
| 21:37.07 | prpplague | ds2: seems to be alot of new nicks in the channel |
| 21:37.28 | ds2 | prpplague: yeah, there are crossovers from the #beagle |
| 21:37.56 | prpplague | ds2: looks like the PuppE board will sell for $79.00 |
| 21:38.38 | prpplague | ds2: has the 10/100BaseT, battery backed RTC, second uart with level shifters, second mmc slot |
| 21:39.15 | ds2 | prpplague: is there solder pads/convenient traces to cut off the MMC slot? and what is the RTC connected? SPI or I2C? |
| 21:39.39 | ds2 | prpplague: I am still tempted to build a ethernet with the Microchip part despite its issues |
| 21:39.50 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_PB (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 21:39.59 | flavioribeiro | can anyone here tell me an cheaper modem bluetooth (with stack bluetooth built-in) than BlueSMIRF? |
| 21:40.04 | prpplague | ds2: yea, we are using the micrell part |
| 21:40.22 | prpplague | flavioribeiro: not really, you are paying for the firmware stack |
| 21:40.37 | ds2 | flavioribeiro: bluegiga ones go for about $30 |
| 21:40.47 | prpplague | ds2: the rtc is via i2c |
| 21:41.02 | ds2 | prpplague: is the i2c on 1.8V or 3.3V? |
| 21:41.16 | flavioribeiro | im thinking about make my smartphone (symbian based) talk to my arduino using bluetooth |
| 21:41.41 | flavioribeiro | i found some people doing this on the internet with bluesmirf, but it coasts 64 dollar at sparkfun |
| 21:41.44 | ds2 | flavioriberio: the bluegiga with the UART firmware should let you do that |
| 21:41.53 | ds2 | ~$30ish |
| 21:42.02 | flavioribeiro | good to know ds2 |
| 21:42.04 | ds2 | (I am assuming symbian still supports DUN) |
| 21:43.17 | g1powermac_PB | hey prpplague |
| 21:43.49 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: hey bud |
| 21:44.05 | g1powermac_PB | hows it going? |
| 21:45.00 | g1powermac_PB | has been wildly programming these last few days |
| 21:45.03 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: it is going |
| 21:45.23 | g1powermac_PB | trying to write up a simple gui api based on sdl for this app I want to have run on the zipit2 |
| 21:46.00 | g1powermac_PB | and it isn't so fun doing OOP when you really an embedded programmer where you don't normally touch OOP ;-) |
| 21:46.08 | prpplague | ds2: the rtc is level shifted to +5v from the 1.8v of the beagle |
| 21:46.28 | ds2 | Ouch |
| 21:46.29 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: sdl on handheld? |
| 21:46.30 | ds2 | 5V? |
| 21:46.39 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: seems a little heavy |
| 21:46.40 | *** part/#edev wamty (n=ktebit@77.42.142.98) |
| 21:46.41 | ds2 | who in the right mind still has 5V stuff!? |
| 21:46.51 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: yea, on the zipit2 |
| 21:46.54 | prpplague | ds2: all the rtc's are geared around +5v stuff |
| 21:47.13 | ds2 | prpplague: which RTC are you using? |
| 21:47.17 | ds2 | 3.3V seems more common |
| 21:47.24 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: heh, it isn't that heavy, compared to likes of Qt or others :-) |
| 21:47.27 | prpplague | ds2: DS1307 |
| 21:47.41 | ds2 | uh oh... maxim part |
| 21:47.55 | g1powermac_PB | has a few of those I think |
| 21:48.01 | g1powermac_PB | ds2: you want one? |
| 21:48.12 | ds2 | g1powermac_PB: it is 5V |
| 21:48.14 | prpplague | ds2: yea, not worried, mr.herod purchases something like 5000 pieces |
| 21:48.22 | g1powermac_PB | ds2: ahh |
| 21:48.39 | g1powermac_PB | has so many dallas chips, its kinda sick. . . |
| 21:48.42 | ds2 | prpplague: has the 5000 peices arrived? ;) |
| 21:48.55 | ds2 | g1powermac_PB: 1 wire chips are more interesting |
| 21:48.56 | prpplague | ds2: yea he got them a few weeks back |
| 21:49.11 | prpplague | ds2: what were you wanting to do with the mmc slot signals? |
| 21:49.12 | g1powermac_PB | ds2: myeah |
| 21:49.24 | g1powermac_PB | oh, I got one of them craignells the other day |
| 21:49.35 | ds2 | prpplague: looking at the page, the 5v only RTCs are in the minority |
| 21:49.43 | g1powermac_PB | I haven't played with it yet, but its incredibly small |
| 21:50.01 | ds2 | prpplague: I want to use them as GPIOs... I ran out of time to get my I2C GPIO expanders and found the MMC slot signals as GPIO's very handy |
| 21:50.10 | g1powermac_PB | super nice little fpga board like the hammer |
| 21:50.27 | prpplague | ds2: it was done for several reasons, one being that alot of the parts at sparkfun are geared towards working with the +5v arduino stuff |
| 21:50.37 | prpplague | ds2: ahh |
| 21:50.56 | ds2 | what I really want is a thin, LED backlight LCD (800x600 or better); 7-8"... I want a tablet/pad |
| 21:51.12 | ds2 | prpplague: the beagle is seriously short on GPIOs! |
| 21:51.18 | prpplague | ds2: indeed |
| 21:51.29 | prpplague | ds2: btw, how do you have your lcd connected on the tablet? |
| 21:51.32 | MonMotha | ds2: I can get you some thin, LED backlight 800x480 7.8" widescreen LCDs |
| 21:51.43 | ds2 | and the #@$@#$@%$@#@#$@$ makers of 1.8V capable I2C GPIO expanders are RARE |
| 21:51.49 | MonMotha | ds2: semtech |
| 21:51.55 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: if I wanted to use both of those lithium batteries I bought from you, I'd have to use them in series to charge them right? |
| 21:51.57 | ds2 | prpplague: indeed I do... I am going to spin another version of that board |
| 21:52.09 | prpplague | ds2: yea that is why we level shifted the i2c to +5v |
| 21:52.15 | ds2 | MonMotha: am I going to have ot pay with 2 arms and 2 legs? :) |
| 21:52.20 | MonMotha | ds2: I don't think so. |
| 21:52.29 | prpplague | g1powermac_PB: in parallel |
| 21:52.30 | ds2 | prpplague: that's another chip |
| 21:52.42 | g1powermac_PB | prpplague: err, yea, thats what I meant to write |
| 21:52.45 | ds2 | I really ought to get the microchip GPIO expanders working |
| 21:52.51 | prpplague | ds2: btw, how do you have your lcd connected on the tablet? |
| 21:52.55 | ds2 | MonMotha: hmmm what is your idea of thin? |
| 21:53.01 | MonMotha | ds2: < 1/4" |
| 21:53.04 | ds2 | prpplague: I have a PCB with level shifters |
| 21:53.11 | ds2 | MonMotha: whoa nice... <$100? |
| 21:53.20 | MonMotha | ds2: you want to talk price? I can give you the guy's number. |
| 21:53.25 | prpplague | ds2: but the beagle doesn't have the lcd signals brought out |
| 21:53.39 | ds2 | MonMotha: do I have to buy 200000000000 units at once? |
| 21:53.42 | MonMotha | nope |
| 21:53.47 | ds2 | prpplague: RevC does :) |
| 21:53.48 | MonMotha | I'm guessing they'd sell as few as you want |
| 21:53.48 | solar | just saw ds2 on make |
| 21:54.04 | ds2 | MonMotha: cool... does he do Email ? |
| 21:54.10 | prpplague | ds2: ahh, i didn't think rev c was available yet |
| 21:54.12 | MonMotha | sure |
| 21:54.22 | ds2 | prpplague: as of 2.5 weeks ago... I got an advance unit |
| 21:54.27 | MonMotha | ds2: in PM |
| 21:54.45 | ds2 | MonMotha: got it, thanks |
| 21:54.55 | prpplague | ds2: ahh dandy |
| 21:55.10 | g1powermac_PB | MonMotha: thats a nice lcd |
| 21:55.16 | MonMotha | g1powermac: it's a VERY nice LCD |
| 21:55.19 | solar | mine shipped yesterday or today I think |
| 21:55.24 | MonMotha | they have matching touchscreens, too |
| 21:55.29 | ds2 | I should buy a case or two and sell them |
| 21:55.31 | g1powermac_PB | oh |
| 21:55.39 | MonMotha | the touchscreen does kinda "wash out" the LCD some, but that'll happen |
| 21:55.42 | MonMotha | the touchscreen is optional |
| 21:55.49 | g1powermac_PB | what kind of interface for the video? |
| 21:55.50 | ds2 | MonMotha: got enough capitol left to do that? |
| 21:56.07 | MonMotha | g1powermac_PB: 3.3V TTL digital |
| 21:56.14 | g1powermac_PB | hmm |
| 21:56.18 | MonMotha | IIRC it's a 24 bit panel |
| 21:56.22 | MonMotha | you can of course run it lower |
| 21:56.22 | ds2 | 3.3V ONLY? Now I am drooling |
| 21:56.35 | MonMotha | yes, 3.3V |
| 21:56.43 | MonMotha | need an interface board? I can do that :) |
| 21:56.51 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@64.210.41.166) |
| 21:56.53 | MonMotha | I had it hooked up to an AT91 ARM |
| 21:56.55 | ds2 | and can work lower?! WTF haven't I ordered one already! |
| 21:57.04 | ds2 | MonMotha: sorry, but I have that done already |
| 21:57.27 | g1powermac_PB | MonMotha: oh, interface board tooo |
| 21:57.39 | g1powermac_PB | MonMotha: you're tempting me :-) |
| 21:57.50 | MonMotha | g1powermac_PB: just cut a PO and it's done :) |
| 21:58.00 | g1powermac_PB | hehe |
| 21:58.25 | g1powermac_PB | really needs to save his money for his current project, but dang that such a nice lcd. . . |
| 21:58.37 | MonMotha | it is a very nice LCD |
| 21:59.14 | ds2 | there are enough of us here in #edev with different skills that we should pool together and something concerted going |
| 21:59.39 | g1powermac_PB | ds2: like what do you have in mind? |
| 21:59.45 | MonMotha | the issue is not the talent pool; it's finding people willing to pay for said talent |
| 21:59.51 | ds2 | prpplague: I just donno about 5V stuff... fine if you want to limit yourself to hobbiest |
| 22:00.23 | ds2 | g1powermac_PB: anything... there are too many posuers out there |
| 22:00.31 | MonMotha | ds2: it may also work with 2.7V logic levels. I don't remember. I know we used it at 3.3V, and VCC was 3.3V. It does need 5V for the backlight supply. |
| 22:00.37 | prpplague | ds2: indeed, that seems to be where the market is for the add on boards |
| 22:00.57 | prpplague | ds2: i don't think sparkfun carries anything other than +5v rtc's |
| 22:01.06 | g1powermac_PB | wonders if he'd be considered a poser. . . |
| 22:01.06 | ds2 | prpplague: that is not what I am seeing... 3.3V seems to do more |
| 22:01.32 | ds2 | g1powermac_PB: I am specifically refering to the folks who do nothing but give talks and don't do anything (and never had done anything) |
| 22:01.41 | g1powermac_PB | ahh |
| 22:01.45 | ds2 | MonMotha: 5V for BL?!!?!??!?!? now you have me almost crying |
| 22:02.08 | MonMotha | ds2: yes, with 3.3V PWM input |
| 22:02.17 | prpplague | ds2: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=99 |
| 22:02.24 | prpplague | ds2: thats basically what we duplicated |
| 22:02.25 | g1powermac_PB | ds2: if you buy a batch of them lcds and get a discount price, lemme know, I might want to buy one off of ya ;-) |
| 22:02.51 | ds2 | g1powermac_PB: beagle or other uses? |
| 22:03.05 | g1powermac_PB | other, prolly |
| 22:03.18 | g1powermac_PB | as I don't have a beagle |
| 22:03.24 | ds2 | MonMotha: the current LCD I am using requires 2.5V for I/O, 5V for bias, and ~24-30V for BL |
| 22:03.36 | MonMotha | ds2: ouch |
| 22:03.46 | MonMotha | yeah, this thing is pretty self contained |
| 22:04.01 | prpplague | ds2: another reason was the price |
| 22:04.06 | prpplague | ds2: they were darn cheap |
| 22:04.08 | MonMotha | 3.3V for LCD power, 5V for backlight power, 3.3V digital interface for video |
| 22:04.12 | g1powermac_PB | MonMotha: how much would you want for an interface board? |
| 22:04.13 | ds2 | prpplague: what's cheap? <$2? |
| 22:04.18 | prpplague | ds2: we wanted to keep the retail price of the board at $79.00 |
| 22:04.26 | MonMotha | g1powermac_PB: well, what do you want said interface board to do? |
| 22:05.01 | ds2 | prpplague: an alternative is to pop in a battery capable micro and use that to generate some GPIOs |
| 22:05.10 | ds2 | TI claims the MSP430 can do it |
| 22:05.18 | MonMotha | unless you have an actual application in mind, it's probably easier to just find a dev board to actually talk to it. I can do a breakout board for you, though |
| 22:05.28 | prpplague | ds2: the next adapter board will have an arduino built in |
| 22:05.32 | MonMotha | the connector on the display is a 0.5mm FFC; not exactly hobbyist friendly |
| 22:05.33 | g1powermac_PB | MonMotha: that would be nice |
| 22:05.55 | ds2 | 0.5mm FPC? I sneeze at that! |
| 22:06.07 | MonMotha | ds2: oh, it's fine for production use, but not great for hobbyists |
| 22:06.10 | prpplague | ds2: according to the inventory, we got them for $1.0825 each |
| 22:06.25 | wmat | hhjjjdd |
| 22:06.38 | g1powermac_PB | MonMotha: is there a case or something for the lcd? |
| 22:06.38 | ds2 | prpplague: Oh nice.... the 430 is budgetary at about $2 but you can use it as a GPIO expander too |
| 22:07.06 | g1powermac_PB | or is it just a bare lcd? |
| 22:07.20 | ds2 | if you need a case, I can make them |
| 22:07.32 | prpplague | ds2: yea, i looked at the schematic for the PuppE board's mmc stuff, not easy to cut the traces and use, but it would be pretty easy to just remove the mmc slot |
| 22:07.34 | g1powermac_PB | I'd just need one though |
| 22:07.37 | prpplague | ds2: then solder to the pads |
| 22:07.50 | prpplague | ds2: the lines are +3.3v level shifted |
| 22:08.07 | ds2 | prpplague: is the socket you are using have pads on the outside or underneath it? |
| 22:08.22 | ds2 | prpplague: 3.3V shifted? so you are not adding a variable supply? |
| 22:08.23 | prpplague | ds2: same one that is on the beagle |
| 22:08.26 | MonMotha | g1powermac_PB: I may be able to wrangle you up an enclosure |
| 22:08.44 | ds2 | g1powermac_PB: I can make them up in singles... I CNC my cases |
| 22:08.47 | prpplague | ds2: why would you need a variable ps? |
| 22:08.52 | g1powermac_PB | ds2: what I'm making for the zipit2 I'd love to get working on an lcd/arm board |
| 22:09.03 | ds2 | prpplague: cuz for power reasons you want to run them at the lowest possible voltage |
| 22:09.14 | g1powermac_PB | if I can get it all in one and that size, I'd be thrilled |
| 22:09.16 | ds2 | the TWL4030 can support variable voltages, IIRC |
| 22:09.23 | MonMotha | the people who have the LCDs have enclosures laying around that will accomodate it, but it's kinda a bleh design, and they may not be able to sell them to you as they're used for a production device |
| 22:09.49 | prpplague | ds2: i guess we use different wording, you have jumpers that you can adjust from 1.8v, 3.3v or 5v for the level shifting |
| 22:09.58 | prpplague | ds2: the socket is the exact same one as is on the beagle |
| 22:10.01 | ds2 | just get a machine shop to make one up...draw it in solidworks and.... |
| 22:10.10 | solar | has 2 x 4.2VDC some small solar panels that would fit perfect on the back of your portable beagle |
| 22:10.12 | MonMotha | ds2: I found that in many cases, the Iq of a regulator swamped the additional static current of running the micro at higher voltage vs. minimum |
| 22:10.12 | ds2 | prpplague: I think that has pins under it |
| 22:10.18 | g1powermac_PB | MonMotha: lemme know what you can find, I'd be interested in it |
| 22:10.23 | MonMotha | even on so-called "Ultra Low Iq" regulators |
| 22:10.27 | prpplague | ds2: doesn't look so |
| 22:10.32 | ds2 | MonMotha: no, this running the MMC at lower voltages |
| 22:10.37 | MonMotha | oh |
| 22:10.52 | ds2 | solar: heh... so this is for use while lying down? ;) |
| 22:10.55 | MonMotha | g1powermac_PB: you just want one? |
| 22:11.02 | MonMotha | I'm not sure I can pull that off |
| 22:11.04 | ds2 | MMC/SD seems to spike up to 100mA during writes |
| 22:11.07 | g1powermac_PB | MonMotha: if you could let me know a total for the lcd + breakout board + possible enclosure, that'd be great |
| 22:11.09 | g1powermac_PB | yea |
| 22:11.17 | g1powermac_PB | this is just a prototype |
| 22:11.19 | MonMotha | I can probably get you an LCD + breakout, though |
| 22:13.08 | g1powermac_PB | MonMotha: k |
| 22:13.39 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@64.210.41.166) |
| 22:14.55 | ds2 | MonMotha: know if they have capacitive sensing touch screens for those LCDs? |
| 22:15.38 | g1powermac_PB | just wishes he can get two RNG smt modules for less than $240. . . |
| 22:15.54 | ds2 | what is a RNG module? |
| 22:16.01 | g1powermac_PB | random number generator |
| 22:16.09 | g1powermac_PB | true hardware RNG |
| 22:16.18 | ds2 | what is so special about this one? uses radiation? |
| 22:16.20 | prpplague | ds2: maybe you should contact mr.herod, maybe he might be interested in working with you on a design |
| 22:16.42 | g1powermac_PB | ds2: its premade and tested: http://www.protego.se/r300a.htm |
| 22:17.04 | ds2 | prpplague: Maybe I should... I just donno how much reaming will I have to expect for something like that :/ |
| 22:17.17 | g1powermac_PB | ds2: in actuality, its incredibly cheap for two RNGs |
| 22:17.28 | g1powermac_PB | most are insanely priced |
| 22:17.51 | ds2 | g1powermac_PB: but what is the randomness based on? diode noise? radiation? |
| 22:18.02 | g1powermac_PB | I think its diode noise |
| 22:18.08 | ds2 | ah |
| 22:18.21 | ds2 | that stuff is not uniform so the test would be to see the spread of it over time |
| 22:18.25 | g1powermac_PB | this is the only other reasonable one: http://www.idquantique.com/products/quantis.htm |
| 22:18.36 | g1powermac_PB | and its like $500 for the OEM module |
| 22:18.52 | ds2 | why not just build one? |
| 22:18.56 | g1powermac_PB | of course, its superbly random being quantum based |
| 22:19.12 | prpplague | ds2: rusty@tincantools.com |
| 22:19.15 | g1powermac_PB | ds2: I want something that's tested |
| 22:19.38 | g1powermac_PB | ds2: something that is already proved to be decently random |
| 22:19.44 | ds2 | prpplague: may I mentioned you suggested this? |
| 22:19.49 | prpplague | ds2: sure |
| 22:20.02 | prpplague | ds2: hey has resources to get SLA or SLS plastics made as well |
| 22:20.17 | ds2 | SLA? as in Stereo Lit? |
| 22:21.29 | prpplague | ds2: don't start me lying about what they stand for, SLA and SLS are the two types of polymers used when doing 3D printing |
| 22:21.29 | ds2 | I can handle CNC'ing myself |
| 22:21.49 | ds2 | prpplague: just confirming you are talking about 3D printing |
| 22:21.54 | prpplague | ds2: yea |
| 22:21.56 | ds2 | cuz that stuff is expensive |
| 22:22.08 | prpplague | ds2: hehe, not really, just gotta know where to go |
| 22:22.08 | ds2 | CNC is usually cheaper then stereo lith. |
| 22:22.21 | ds2 | prpplague: it is the resin |
| 22:22.28 | prpplague | ds2: you can get a short run of 10 pieces for about $500 USD |
| 22:22.44 | ds2 | depending on the peice you can CNC 10 peices for <$100 |
| 22:23.01 | ds2 | granted that is fully automated and not have an operation mess with it every 30 seconds |
| 22:23.13 | kergoth | anyone looked at e2factory yet? |
| 22:23.14 | prpplague | ds2: indeed, but once you have the SLA tested you can go directly to plastic molding |
| 22:23.19 | MonMotha | ds2: they only have resistive 4-wire |
| 22:23.34 | ds2 | prpplague: don't see how that helps... you still need to pay NRE to get a mold made up |
| 22:23.39 | MonMotha | also, if you're willing to build it yourself, you can do a decent RNG for about $5 |
| 22:23.52 | MonMotha | you do need a 12V supply, though. Add a buck for a charge pump if you don't |
| 22:23.52 | ds2 | with CNC, you have the CAD files to flip over and machine the mold then polish |
| 22:24.12 | prpplague | ds2: indeed, but if you do SLA's you can do four or five sets and test everything out before going to do the mold |
| 22:24.40 | MonMotha | I was able to do zener noise and get a reasonably flat power spectrum from |
| 22:24.45 | MonMotha | ~10Hz - ~100kHz |
| 22:24.46 | ds2 | prpplague: still not convinced SLA can do better |
| 22:25.10 | ds2 | MonMotha: couldn't you also reverse bias the Base-Emitter junction into break down mode and do the same? |
| 22:25.12 | MonMotha | Schottkys do better, but you need like 60V to get those into reverse breakdown, and then you need a real current source since the breakdown isn't predictable |
| 22:25.20 | prpplague | ds2: hehe |
| 22:25.20 | ds2 | 2N2222's can be cheaper then Zeners |
| 22:25.21 | MonMotha | ds2: tried it. Doesn't work as well |
| 22:25.40 | g1powermac_PB | wonders. . . |
| 22:25.47 | MonMotha | breakdown voltage is less predictable, too, necessitating a current source for production usage |
| 22:25.53 | ds2 | prpplague: I might be biases as I have had more experience with the CNC side (have qualifications to run those guys) |
| 22:25.53 | MonMotha | though you can still fit everything onto a quad op-amp |
| 22:26.01 | g1powermac_PB | those bluetooth thingies on sparkfun, can you make them talk with each other? |
| 22:26.25 | g1powermac_PB | or is it like usb? where you need a bluetooth host |
| 22:26.33 | ds2 | op-amp? I amthinking of 2 transistors - one to make noise and another to amplify it and then feed it into an onboard ADC |
| 22:26.43 | prpplague | ds2: yea, just easier for use to email a solid works file and have the stuff UPS-red to us |
| 22:27.07 | MonMotha | ds2: yeah, I tried doing it with just a transistor for the amp, and I couldn't get flat power density |
| 22:27.15 | MonMotha | i.e. it was very biased |
| 22:27.20 | ds2 | prpplague: indeed but that process can work for CNC...lots of shops can take a solidworks file and run it through a CAM system |
| 22:27.50 | ds2 | MonMotha: yeah, that's the part that is tricky... cuz I think even the Zeners are dominated by shot noise |
| 22:28.00 | MonMotha | you can remove some of the bias in software |
| 22:28.09 | ds2 | then it becomes less truely random |
| 22:28.23 | MonMotha | I had a pretty darn flat power density from ~10Hz to ~100kHz out of my setup. It was pretty impressive. |
| 22:28.36 | ds2 | bad memories of sitting in a class room and glazing over 5mins into the lecture about noise :/ |
| 22:28.49 | MonMotha | I probably could have done better with a better op-amp. These were just LM358s |
| 22:29.00 | ds2 | what's unity gain on the 358? |
| 22:29.06 | MonMotha | I don't remember |
| 22:29.06 | ds2 | 1MHz? |
| 22:29.08 | MonMotha | not good |
| 22:29.11 | MonMotha | 1 or maybe 10MHz |
| 22:29.11 | prpplague | ds2: yea, just a preference i guess |
| 22:29.13 | MonMotha | and you need a LOT of gain |
| 22:29.31 | MonMotha | I actually cascaded two amps together |
| 22:29.45 | MonMotha | I let the gain go to unity at DC and infinity at HF |
| 22:30.10 | ds2 | if you have an op-amp that goes infinite gain at HF, please share the P/N :D |
| 22:30.25 | ds2 | I'll settle for large gain at HF |
| 22:30.34 | MonMotha | well, I guess I should say that I set the feedback network up to achieve "infinity" gain at HF |
| 22:30.37 | ds2 | no phase shift would also be nice at HF ;) |
| 22:31.07 | MonMotha | of course eventually the gain bandwidth took over, hence to roll-off above ~100kHz |
| 22:31.42 | MonMotha | the results were pretty good, though. Better than anything I could get out of the two transistor approach (of course, it also cost 10 times as much |
| 22:31.43 | MonMotha | ) |
| 22:31.57 | ds2 | and maybe 4-5x the footprint? |
| 22:32.01 | MonMotha | well, yeah |
| 22:32.04 | MonMotha | I had PCB space to spare |
| 22:32.36 | ds2 | OpAmps are mean and finicky beasts... a like a certain gender of this species |
| 22:33.00 | prpplague | ds2: it also helps that mr.herod has a dedicated employee doing solid works case designs, hehe |
| 22:33.25 | prpplague | goes home |
| 22:33.29 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@64.210.41.166) |
| 22:33.34 | g1powermac_PB | these look nice: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=705 |
| 22:33.51 | ds2 | prpplague: oh definitely... since he can afford a solidworks license.... |
| 22:34.22 | MonMotha | ds2: I've found them easier to work with for "macro" applications than trying to chuck discretes all over the place |
| 22:34.27 | MonMotha | but yes, lots of stuff to pay attention to |
| 22:34.45 | MonMotha | especially when you get into the op-amps with GHz+ gain bandwidth |
| 22:35.17 | ds2 | MonMotha: the problem I have is having them oscillate when i leave expect it to |
| 22:35.52 | ds2 | s/leave/least/ |
| 22:37.18 | MonMotha | ds2: I don't commonly have that problem, though I tend to not have parasitic related issues |
| 22:37.23 | MonMotha | apparently my layouts are "good" |
| 22:37.42 | ds2 | MonMotha: do you proto on breadboards first? |
| 22:37.58 | MonMotha | ds2: sometimes, and I do get oscillation there sometimes |
| 22:38.04 | MonMotha | I keep those layouts tight, too, though |
| 22:38.32 | ds2 | so do I... if it always oscillated in every use, I can see that.. |
| 22:38.43 | ds2 | also it is sometimes hard to get a clean layout when using the quad op-amp packages |
| 22:39.01 | MonMotha | yes, it is |
| 22:39.14 | MonMotha | I'm perfectly willing to drop to 2x duals if I have to in order to get a good layout |
| 22:39.43 | ds2 | doesn't that double your bypassing cap count? |
| 22:40.38 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@64.210.41.166) |
| 22:40.43 | ds2 | or are you a bit more liberal with that? I try to strictly follow 1 bypass cap per chip |
| 22:41.54 | MonMotha | I try to strictly follow 1 bypass per power pin pair |
| 22:41.57 | MonMotha | so yes, it does |
| 22:42.07 | MonMotha | but if I can't fit them, I'll do one per pair |
| 22:42.18 | MonMotha | depends on the power layout on the PCB, too. If you have clean planes, you can get by with fewer |
| 22:42.30 | MonMotha | my layouts tend to not cut corners, but they also tend to WORK |
| 22:42.38 | ds2 | planes? heh... I try very hard not to exceed 2 layers |
| 22:42.50 | ds2 | via's up the wazoo |
| 22:42.58 | MonMotha | well, in some cases it's simply not possible to bring things out on 2 |
| 22:45.16 | MonMotha | dense packages with pinouts that aren't conducive to mechanical requirements for your PCB can force additional layers |
| 22:52.34 | ds2 | it is also a matter of how much you want to push your luck with via mazes |
| 22:58.40 | MonMotha | true |
| 22:58.44 | MonMotha | I tend to not like to |
| 23:06.41 | ds2 | odd question - but any idea why something like windows is so slow on a 486? |
| 23:06.59 | ds2 | trying to figure some stuff out relating to emulation |
| 23:19.45 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp026.109-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 23:56.45 | MonMotha | ds2: probably detecting that you have a 486 and deliberately slowing down in order to convince you to "upgrade" :) |