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| 09:03.54 | methril|work | yo |
| 09:10.12 | landley | yo indeed. |
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| 19:38.20 | g1powermac_PB | does anyone know where I maybe able to get a premade package layout library for the ST60X-36S connector made by Hirose? |
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| 20:39.25 | MonMotha | g1powermac_PB: what CAD package? |
| 20:40.45 | g1powermac | depends, atm, I can't find it for any |
| 20:41.13 | g1powermac | my software can use a couple of different libraries |
| 20:48.04 | MonMotha | I'm pretty sure I had a rather complete Hirose library in OrCAD format |
| 20:48.09 | MonMotha | though I don't remember where I got it |
| 20:48.27 | MonMotha | my CAD package was also actively maintained, and it had lots of recent libraries |
| 20:48.36 | g1powermac | hmm, OrCAD may work |
| 20:49.48 | MonMotha | it seems to be what everybody uses for Schematic work |
| 20:50.06 | MonMotha | the OrCAD/PADS workflow seems incredibly common, much as I detest PADS |
| 20:50.49 | g1powermac | hrmm, maybe not |
| 20:51.09 | g1powermac | seems I can import OrCAD schematics. . .but not layout libraries |
| 20:51.19 | g1powermac | which can only be in Protel format |
| 20:51.41 | MonMotha | what package are you using? |
| 20:51.42 | g1powermac | .lia files |
| 20:51.46 | g1powermac | WinQCad |
| 20:51.49 | MonMotha | I see |
| 20:52.42 | MonMotha | looks like their big thing is their autorouter |
| 20:52.44 | MonMotha | I never liked autorouters |
| 20:53.08 | g1powermac | yea, I don't use their router much, I just seem to like the system as a whole |
| 20:53.17 | g1powermac | plus it runs beautifully in Wine |
| 20:53.39 | MonMotha | I see |
| 20:54.12 | MonMotha | why do I get the feeling that in 10 years we'll all be running OSes other than Windows, but everybody will still be writing Windows apps and running them in WINE? |
| 20:54.12 | g1powermac | do you have any way to export that library to Protel P_CAD files? |
| 20:54.19 | g1powermac | heheh |
| 20:54.20 | MonMotha | I would have if I were still working |
| 20:54.32 | g1powermac | doh, ok :-) |
| 20:54.33 | MonMotha | I used Altium Designer, which has full support for Protel files |
| 20:54.49 | g1powermac | ahh, Altium |
| 20:54.58 | MonMotha | best ECAD package I ever used |
| 20:55.03 | g1powermac | yes, it is |
| 20:55.05 | MonMotha | and not overly expensive |
| 20:55.11 | g1powermac | how much? |
| 20:55.28 | g1powermac | prolly over my budget either way |
| 20:55.37 | MonMotha | upper 4 figures to very low 5 figures |
| 20:55.44 | g1powermac | haha, yea |
| 20:55.44 | MonMotha | depends on the mood of their sales people |
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| 20:56.31 | g1powermac | I played with a not so legal copy of it once or two in the past, it definitely is quite nice |
| 20:56.51 | MonMotha | what gets me is that they just keep making it better |
| 20:57.05 | MonMotha | it is very actively maintained, unlike the "old school" packages everybody seems to love (PADS, OrCAD) |
| 20:57.24 | g1powermac | ahh |
| 20:58.22 | MonMotha | I was attempting (unsuccessfully) to use PADS at one point, and I found some screenshots from Win 3.1 (or NT 3.x) in their help files |
| 20:58.32 | g1powermac | heh |
| 20:58.47 | g1powermac | finds winqcad great for simple little projects |
| 20:58.55 | MonMotha | likewise, I know there was a way to get OrCAD to bring up a Win3.1 style file picker |
| 20:59.08 | MonMotha | yeah, see, I wasn't doing simple or little stuff :) |
| 20:59.21 | MonMotha | 8 layer designs with 100s of components |
| 20:59.22 | g1powermac | especially when you don't need to play with crazy packages like this hirose connector |
| 20:59.25 | g1powermac | wow |
| 20:59.26 | g1powermac | yea |
| 20:59.37 | g1powermac | is trying to design a simple breakout board |
| 21:00.02 | MonMotha | yeah, Designer would be a little overkill for that. I used it for that a few times, but only because I already had it. |
| 21:01.08 | MonMotha | but, from the sound of it, my new job will not involve schematic or layout work |
| 21:01.10 | g1powermac | the problem with this hirose connector is the oval shaped holes it needs |
| 21:01.31 | MonMotha | oval shaped holes? slots usually cost $$$, especially in small qty |
| 21:01.40 | g1powermac | I have yet to figure out how to do that in winqcad |
| 21:01.42 | MonMotha | can you get by making them standard circles? |
| 21:01.48 | g1powermac | not sure |
| 21:01.52 | g1powermac | check out the schematic for it |
| 21:02.15 | g1powermac | http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/81427/HIROSE/ST60X-36S.html |
| 21:03.42 | g1powermac | take a look at the recommended PCB mounting pattern |
| 21:03.52 | MonMotha | "website is temporarily unavailable" (which it always is) |
| 21:04.00 | MonMotha | does Hirose not have a datasheet posted? |
| 21:04.04 | g1powermac | doh |
| 21:05.08 | g1powermac | http://www.hirose.co.jp/cataloge_hp/e24100015.pdf |
| 21:05.46 | g1powermac | (page 5) |
| 21:06.35 | MonMotha | yeah, those are just mounting holes |
| 21:06.43 | g1powermac | figured that |
| 21:06.44 | MonMotha | you may be able to make them plain holes rather than slots |
| 21:06.53 | g1powermac | how so? |
| 21:06.56 | MonMotha | will certainly make the PCB cheaper, especially in small qty |
| 21:07.29 | MonMotha | make the drill diameter the same as the major axis of the slot shown in the diagram, then "fudge" the positions until things don't overlap |
| 21:07.40 | MonMotha | insertion of the part may be tricky, but it should be possible by hand |
| 21:07.48 | g1powermac | hmm |
| 21:10.11 | g1powermac | wonder if I could do overlapping holes to elongate it |
| 21:10.25 | MonMotha | most PCB fabricators don't allow overlapping drill hits |
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| 21:10.46 | MonMotha | you could do one drill hit at each end then cut the slot yourself with e.g. a dremel |
| 21:10.56 | g1powermac | hmm |
| 21:11.22 | g1powermac | they guys from batchpcb (sparkfun's pcb house) have had people who do overlapping drill hits |
| 21:11.25 | g1powermac | *the |
| 21:11.34 | MonMotha | really... |
| 21:11.38 | g1powermac | "Note: we do not currently offer internal routes (these are odd shaped cut outs within the border of your board). However, we have seen people fake it with overlapping drill hits - no guarantees for sucess but it has been done." |
| 21:11.41 | MonMotha | if Gold Phoenix allows it, then I guess go for it |
| 21:12.00 | MonMotha | most places don't allow it as it has a tendency to destroy their equipment |
| 21:12.16 | g1powermac | ahh |
| 21:14.19 | g1powermac | the interesting part is doing the overlapping drill hits plus the plating |
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| 22:00.05 | ds2 | sprays 201 resistors all over the channel |
| 22:00.25 | MonMotha | heh, those are hard to solder :) |
| 22:00.50 | MonMotha | 0402s I can mostly do, but I can't do 0201s |
| 22:01.40 | ds2 | heh |
| 22:01.45 | ds2 | you got a scope? |
| 22:02.10 | prpplague | my hands are way too shakey for 0201's |
| 22:02.48 | MonMotha | ds2: nope |
| 22:03.06 | MonMotha | 0402s are hard. I can see them, but the tools are so much bigger than the part. |
| 22:03.19 | MonMotha | The part also tends to stick to all the tools due to electrostatic forces |
| 22:03.28 | ds2 | guess i am just a wuss for sticking with 0805 |
| 22:03.42 | MonMotha | 0201s I can see, but I just can't work with them |
| 22:03.52 | MonMotha | 0805 is BIG |
| 22:03.59 | MonMotha | my "standard" is 0603 |
| 22:04.13 | ds2 | well, the iron I am using has a time that is a tiny bit bigger then an 0805 edge |
| 22:04.30 | ds2 | s/time/tip/ |
| 22:04.48 | MonMotha | my iron's tip is way bigger than an 0603 edge, but that's not a problem |
| 22:04.58 | MonMotha | for 0402s I guess I should maybe try a smaller tip |
| 22:05.12 | ds2 | my problem is melting adjacent stuff |
| 22:05.27 | MonMotha | then your tip is either waaaay too big, or your iron is too hot |
| 22:05.43 | MonMotha | 325C is about right for leaded solder. 375C for Pb-Free |
| 22:06.20 | MonMotha | you may have to crank it to 385C for Pb-Free if you're unlucky |
| 22:06.40 | ds2 | hmmm the odd thing is my iron is developing places that won't melt solder at all so I crank up the temp |
| 22:08.04 | MonMotha | then you need a new tip |
| 22:08.30 | ds2 | so those are symptoms of a worn tip? |
| 22:08.42 | MonMotha | certainly can be |
| 22:09.05 | ds2 | I must been using cheap irons too long... that's std behavior with the rat shack irons |
| 22:09.19 | MonMotha | oh yeah |
| 22:09.27 | MonMotha | a good iron won't do that, though |
| 22:11.08 | ds2 | guess I will take a look at those Hakko clones then |
| 22:35.11 | g1powermac_PB | oh dang, I missed prpplague |
| 22:42.39 | g1powermac | wow, heard back from the Hirose people asking if they had a Protel library for the connector |
| 22:42.58 | g1powermac | the guy said their engineering department doesn't work with .dxp's |
| 22:43.03 | g1powermac | and sent me a pdf instead |
| 22:45.43 | MonMotha | just draw the thing |
| 22:46.02 | MonMotha | I learned very quickly that it's not worth the time to find libraries in many cases unless it's a very complete one |
| 22:46.17 | MonMotha | they're often wrong or they may have stuff unsuitable for your manufacturing capabilities |
| 22:46.24 | MonMotha | drawing out one footprint doesn't take that long |
| 22:47.43 | g1powermac | thats what I'm doing now ;-) |
| 22:53.13 | g1powermac | I'm wondering if it may just be easier to leave only the smt pads and do the through hole drill hits in the pcb editor instead of the package editor which seems to be awfully limited |
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