| 00:01.39 | ds2 | does the flux help that much? |
| 00:02.21 | ds2 | I am doing close to the ssame thing except for the flux but my mfg friend thinks it is better to get a ultrafine tip iron and do it pin by pin |
| 00:04.10 | MonMotha | the flux is absolutely necessary for the technique to work |
| 00:04.39 | MonMotha | pin-by-pin will give the best joint if you can pull it off, but it's time consuming and I get very, very nice joints with my technique |
| 00:04.56 | MonMotha | I end up with more solder on the pad, though, which might be cause for concern if you're worried about tin whiskers with the Pb-free crap |
| 00:05.06 | ds2 | I get ok results w/o the flux but I will the flux next time |
| 00:05.37 | MonMotha | the joints certainly do not look "production", but they're very strong and have all the normal indications of a good joint (shiny, no pitting, good filet) |
| 00:05.58 | MonMotha | yeah, without the flux, I can't get the solder to take |
| 00:06.04 | MonMotha | if it does take, the joint often sucks |
| 00:06.13 | MonMotha | may depend on the part and PCB finish |
| 00:06.24 | ds2 | but I am not using RoHS solder though |
| 00:06.39 | MonMotha | leaded solder HAL finish PCB and leaded lead finished parts may take OK |
| 00:06.49 | MonMotha | I'm not using RoHS solder, but most of my parts have a RoHS finish on them since it's all I can buy |
| 00:07.12 | ds2 | the cheapest fabs apparently are still leaded finish |
| 00:07.18 | MonMotha | I also tend to keep my iron a little cooler than some. I usually do about 325C. |
| 00:07.25 | MonMotha | heh, I don't buy cheap parts :) |
| 00:07.38 | MonMotha | most of my parts are from US companies |
| 00:07.51 | ds2 | the PCBs are made in the US |
| 00:07.56 | MonMotha | indeed |
| 00:08.05 | ds2 | expresspcb specifically...their proto services are nonRoHS (leaded finish) |
| 00:08.36 | MonMotha | I actually spec'd a RoHS finish for the PCBs since there were possibilities of international (EU) sales, and we didn't want to have unusable inventory |
| 00:09.00 | MonMotha | all the parts were RoHS, so if I had a RoHS PCB, I could have RoHS compliant boards made on any given run |
| 00:09.11 | MonMotha | the RoHS HAL does usually cost a little more, though |
| 00:09.17 | MonMotha | and lots of places can't do it |
| 00:09.29 | MonMotha | they'll do immersion silver, immersion gold, or ENIG instead |
| 00:09.42 | ds2 | sounds $$$$ |
| 00:10.01 | MonMotha | immersion silver isn't too $$$$, but you have to be careful how you store them, and even then they have a definite shelf life |
| 00:10.09 | MonMotha | immersion gold is kinda pricey, but it lasts OK |
| 00:10.14 | MonMotha | ENIG is great, but not cheap |
| 00:10.53 | MonMotha | when I had them quoted, I usually allowed RoHS HAL, ImAg, or ENIG and let them quote whatever was cheapest for them. It did vary. |
| 00:11.09 | MonMotha | our CM didn't really have any strong opinions from a manufacturing point of view |
| 00:11.46 | ds2 | so you had the CM do full procurement of parts and make the PCBs? |
| 00:12.05 | MonMotha | no. We did all procurement including the PCBs themselves. |
| 00:12.10 | MonMotha | our CM just put the parts on the boards |
| 00:12.28 | MonMotha | and did a darn fine job of it, too |
| 00:13.20 | ds2 | hmmm I am surprised they care about the PCB finish |
| 00:14.39 | MonMotha | well, apparently they don't :) |
| 00:14.46 | MonMotha | like I said, no real opinions |
| 00:15.25 | ds2 | then why would the quick vary? |
| 00:15.58 | MonMotha | quick? |
| 00:16.12 | ds2 | price |
| 00:16.14 | ds2 | blah |
| 00:16.17 | MonMotha | oh |
| 00:16.32 | MonMotha | different PCB fabricators have differently tooled production lines and as such have different prices for the varying finishes |
| 00:16.53 | ds2 | Oh not the CM price but the fab pice |
| 00:16.56 | ds2 | misunderstood |
| 00:16.56 | MonMotha | yes |
| 00:17.17 | MonMotha | CM didn't really care as long as the board was solderable |
| 00:17.34 | ds2 | oh hahahaha |
| 00:17.34 | MonMotha | they weren't fans of the ones we got where the fabricator attempted to repair errors on boards that failed test |
| 00:17.44 | MonMotha | then again, we weren't fans either |
| 00:17.59 | MonMotha | they also delivered v-scored boards when I asked for tab-route |
| 00:18.48 | ds2 | did you pay them for that? |
| 00:19.14 | MonMotha | I do believe it was in the quote |
| 00:20.16 | ds2 | so they made another batch to spec i take it? |
| 00:22.18 | MonMotha | I don't think we asked them to |
| 00:22.23 | MonMotha | we just stopped buying from them |
| 00:22.34 | MonMotha | they were the low bidder |
| 00:22.50 | MonMotha | unsurprisingly, you get what you pay for |
| 00:25.05 | ds2 | not worth the argument with them? |
| 00:25.17 | MonMotha | likely |
| 00:25.31 | MonMotha | while there were a reasonable number of boards, they were small, low-spec stuff |
| 00:25.37 | MonMotha | so not a whole lot of money in the grand scheme of things |
| 00:25.47 | MonMotha | they did still get the border on them, so they were still usable |
| 00:43.16 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp144.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 00:43.34 | *** join/#edev devilsadvocate_ (n=quassel@210.212.55.3) |
| 01:55.01 | *** join/#edev ZeZu (n=null@c-98-227-56-17.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 02:09.45 | *** join/#edev cchaos (n=adz@host86-169-76-53.range86-169.btcentralplus.com) |
| 02:10.21 | *** join/#edev roxfan (n=dunno@126.40-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 03:32.24 | *** join/#edev devilsadvocate (n=quassel@210.212.55.3) |
| 05:13.19 | *** join/#edev onnoval (n=sam@123.252.146.52) |
| 05:43.49 | *** join/#edev DrZimmerman (n=theo@77-56-240-146.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:46.57 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp046.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 07:30.12 | *** join/#edev florian (n=fuchs@f048111064.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 07:34.59 | *** join/#edev sleipnir (n=Sleipnir@79.221.80.7) |
| 07:39.20 | *** join/#edev devilsadvocate (n=quassel@210.212.55.3) |
| 08:17.12 | *** join/#edev DrZimmerman (n=theo@77-56-240-146.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:26.04 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@p57BD27E8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:56.01 | *** join/#edev morphis (n=morphis@p5489A2F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:02.22 | *** join/#edev likewise (n=chatzill@82-171-51-231.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 09:11.09 | *** join/#edev JoeLlama (n=snork@206.169.63.10) |
| 10:51.02 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_PB (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 11:17.21 | *** join/#edev sleipnir (n=Sleipnir@p4FDD5007.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:21.00 | *** join/#edev g1powermac (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 11:32.12 | *** join/#edev ja2 (n=marcus@81.233.153.207) |
| 11:38.49 | *** join/#edev GPSFan (n=kenm@64.92.145.112) |
| 11:38.49 | *** mode/#edev [+o GPSFan] by ChanServ |
| 11:49.15 | *** join/#edev pirho (i=pirho@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x2CEEC9CB) |
| 11:59.45 | *** join/#edev pirho (i=pirho@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x2CEEC9CB) |
| 12:04.00 | *** join/#edev pirho (i=pirho@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x2CEEC9CB) |
| 12:05.35 | *** join/#edev devilsadvocate (n=quassel@210.212.55.3) |
| 12:45.04 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp222.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 13:14.34 | *** part/#edev onnoval (n=sam@123.252.146.52) |
| 14:08.42 | *** join/#edev redblue (i=star@ppp045.108-253-207.mtl.mt.videotron.ca) |
| 14:20.47 | *** join/#edev devilsadvocate (n=quassel@210.212.55.3) |
| 15:32.11 | *** join/#edev devilsadvocate (n=quassel@210.212.55.3) |
| 15:52.26 | *** join/#edev devilsadvocate_ (n=quassel@210.212.55.3) |
| 16:08.17 | *** join/#edev devilsadvocate (n=quassel@210.212.55.3) |
| 16:09.37 | *** join/#edev g1powermac_PB (n=g1powerm@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 16:16.46 | devilsadvocate | has anyone used the atmel sam-ice on linux? |
| 16:18.05 | *** join/#edev albech (n=albech@117.47.84.248) |
| 16:20.14 | *** join/#edev albech (n=albech@117.47.84.248) |
| 16:26.06 | *** join/#edev albech (n=albech@117.47.84.248) |
| 16:43.21 | *** join/#edev albech (n=albech@117.47.84.248) |
| 16:58.20 | *** join/#edev devilsadvocate (n=quassel@210.212.55.3) |
| 17:54.03 | *** join/#edev lyakh (n=lyakh@p57BD27E8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:11.52 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@64.210.41.159) |
| 18:38.42 | *** join/#edev devilsadvocate (n=quassel@210.212.55.3) |
| 18:57.07 | *** join/#edev PuffTheMagic (n=quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic) |
| 19:00.10 | *** join/#edev florian (n=fuchs@f048111064.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:01.39 | *** join/#edev flavioribeiro (n=flavio@189.71.5.226) |
| 23:46.55 | *** join/#edev file (n=file@asterisk/developer-and-muffin-lover/file) |