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| 03:39.32 | Ian_Daniher | calculus: ping |
| 03:44.21 | Ian_Daniher | calculus: what can you tell me about mbed? an obvious failing seems to be that if the website goes down, you lose dev capabilities... |
| 03:58.31 | Ian_Daniher | calculus: however, 60usd for those peripherals... crazyness! |
| 04:00.28 | Ian_Daniher | calculus: and the code looks pretty nice - just the right blend of libraries and unbastardized languages |
| 04:04.07 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave123_@ppp-70-244-160-157.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 04:05.19 | Ian_Daniher | can anyone tell me if mdev is anything approaching open-source? the more I read about it, the more I like it... |
| 04:12.56 | Mirell | ...huhwah? |
| 04:13.14 | Mirell | ...mdev? |
| 04:13.51 | Mirell | Oh, must be a typo. |
| 04:15.31 | m4t | i don't quite remember who all i spoke with a couple days ago about that 14pin jtag |
| 04:15.40 | m4t | the 2mm pitch connector came today though, and it fits |
| 04:25.18 | *** join/#edev landley (n=landley@cpe-66-68-109-179.austin.res.rr.com) |
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| 04:32.35 | prpplague | landley greetings |
| 04:35.12 | landley | Hiya prpplague. |
| 04:35.56 | landley | What are you doing these days? (Long ago, you mentioned the possibility of subcontracting out work to Impact, but it never happened. I lost track of stuff at some point...) |
| 04:38.10 | m4t | parallel is pin1 <-> pin 1, yes? |
| 04:39.41 | prpplague | landley yea just not enough work to sub contract out yet |
| 04:40.02 | prpplague | landley got a large contract for doing some data collection stuff based on the omap3 |
| 04:40.23 | prpplague | landley whats the scoup on the google interview? |
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| 04:45.00 | landley | prpplague: it's not until thursday. |
| 04:45.09 | prpplague | landley ahh |
| 04:45.11 | landley | Well, I had the first one last week and then they're doing a new one with engineers on thursday. |
| 04:45.23 | prpplague | ahh interesting |
| 04:45.25 | landley | On the one hand, yay working for google. Stable long-term gig, and dublin is nice. |
| 04:45.35 | prpplague | you'll move? |
| 04:46.05 | landley | It was a bit of a long shot to go "chrome OS, they're hiring people to work on it, let's apply to the UK office of Google to work on that." |
| 04:46.25 | landley | Google's never hired me because I've never been willing to move before, so I thought "ok, where _am_ I willing to move". |
| 04:46.43 | prpplague | hehe, fade ok to move? |
| 04:46.53 | landley | On the other hand, moving would be disruptive, I have to find a new home for 4 cats, uproot my wife who is trying to get a doctorate. |
| 04:47.05 | landley | And there's a new convention I want to start in Austin which this would abort. |
| 04:47.46 | landley | Fade's willing to move if I get the job. |
| 04:49.04 | landley | I'm getting tired of the constant uncertainty that goes with the consulting lifestyle. Looking for someplace I could work for a few years rather than a few months. |
| 04:49.26 | prpplague | landley hehe, no offensive to fade, but ever time i read your log and you talk about fade, i get this mental picture of Sting in Dune as Feyd Rautha |
| 04:49.27 | landley | Unfortunately, I'm much better at _finding_ few months gigs. |
| 04:49.42 | landley | Fade looks a _little_ bit like sting, but not that much. |
| 04:50.09 | landley | http://landley.net/pictures/fadesmile.jpg |
| 04:50.29 | prpplague | green instead of red? |
| 04:50.46 | landley | Green, blue, purple... It varies. |
| 04:51.11 | landley | Also, y'know... female. |
| 04:51.19 | landley | And less with the singing. Or heart plugs. |
| 04:51.20 | prpplague | indeed |
| 04:51.39 | prpplague | hehe, like i said, tell her no offense |
| 04:51.58 | prpplague | landley well i hope you get it |
| 04:52.42 | landley | Me too. |
| 04:53.02 | prpplague | i share your frustration with linux these days |
| 04:53.53 | prpplague | landley the userspace zombies have taken over and started adding so many widgets to things its breaking the core functionality |
| 04:56.23 | landley | Yup. |
| 04:56.38 | landley | I've mentioned open source has a structural problem with user interface development, right? |
| 04:56.59 | prpplague | yea |
| 04:57.16 | landley | Any time "shut up and show me the code" is not the correct answer to a design question, open source doesn't help much. |
| 04:58.08 | prpplague | yep, and adding every feature under the sun doesn't help if it breaks core functionality |
| 04:58.31 | landley | You get some intersesting failure modes, though. You get a huge amount of rewriting and wheel spinning and attempting to add layers until you've abstracted away the problem. |
| 04:58.39 | landley | The long X11 tradition of "delegating to nobody". |
| 04:58.47 | prpplague | exactly |
| 04:58.55 | landley | This is COMPLETELY CONFIGURABLE. Our inability to do it is therefore not _our_ fault. |
| 04:59.22 | prpplague | nail on the head |
| 04:59.27 | landley | Instead we have window managers, of where there are hundreds of implementations and zero interesting ones. |
| 04:59.37 | landley | Apple has Azure. There's one, and it works. |
| 05:00.07 | landley | Sometimes the delegation turns into endless infrastructure generation. Infrastructure in search of a user. |
| 05:00.16 | prpplague | landley literally 10 years of linux on pda style devices and still no consistent platform |
| 05:00.43 | landley | "Nobody's written a UI for us... maybe we didn't give them enough stuff to make it with!" And thus you get bonobo and dbus and so on. |
| 05:01.19 | prpplague | ugh dbus, i consider that a complete failure |
| 05:01.33 | landley | prpplague: you think that's bad, 40 years of Unix on workstations and our desktop is still 5-10 years behind the platforms we're copying from, badly. |
| 05:01.40 | landley | prpplague: and HAL, don't forget HAL. |
| 05:02.19 | landley | The original PDP-7 Unix was prototyped on _had_a_graphical_display. |
| 05:02.42 | landley | X11 is circa 1987. |
| 05:02.47 | prpplague | yep |
| 05:02.58 | Ian_Daniher | Mirell: yes, very typo. mdev of mdev.org - sorry! |
| 05:03.20 | Ian_Daniher | calculus: I did indeed mean mdev |
| 05:03.38 | landley | And yet the xubuntu 9.04 I'm using? Redraw errors in the pulldown menus. The erase rectangle is in the wrong place about 1/20th of the time. |
| 05:03.55 | landley | mdev? Hmmm? |
| 05:04.34 | prpplague | fedora11 still has a ton of issues |
| 05:05.12 | landley | prpplague: I haven't tried fedora in several releases. |
| 05:05.25 | Ian_Daniher | landley: calculus mentioned it to me, and upon looking @ it, it's pretty close to what I'm looking for |
| 05:05.33 | landley | Back in 2000 Red Hat figured out how to eat the Solaris market, and gave up on the end-user desktop. |
| 05:05.42 | prpplague | indded |
| 05:05.46 | landley | Ian_Daniher: I wrote mdev, I was just curious why it came up. :) |
| 05:05.54 | landley | If you're referring to the busybox thing, anyway... |
| 05:05.58 | prpplague | landley my boss lady is calling me.... |
| 05:06.02 | prpplague | heads to bed |
| 05:06.03 | landley | prpplague: have fun. |
| 05:06.08 | landley | g'night. |
| 05:06.16 | Mirell | landley: Aqua. |
| 05:06.17 | prpplague | later |
| 05:06.18 | Mirell | landley: Not Azure. |
| 05:06.26 | landley | Mirell: I was close. :) |
| 05:06.29 | Ian_Daniher | landley: nope, wait. I just got horribly confused. |
| 05:06.45 | Ian_Daniher | 's face glows red |
| 05:06.48 | landley | Ian_Daniher: I'm normally fairly confused. It's my default state. |
| 05:06.49 | Ian_Daniher | http://mbed.org/ |
| 05:07.17 | Ian_Daniher | Mirell: see the above. I was confused by excessive confusion - I was talking about http://mbed.org/ |
| 05:07.26 | Ian_Daniher | sorry 'bout that |
| 05:07.35 | Mirell | Ian_Daniher: Gotcha. I was wondering about your question making mdev open-source...because...it is. ^^ |
| 05:08.19 | landley | Ian_Daniher: looks vaguely interesting, but doesn't say what the actual processor is. |
| 05:08.24 | Ian_Daniher | is still slightly horrified by undue confusion |
| 05:08.27 | landley | It runs C++ code which you compile with their compiler... |
| 05:08.41 | landley | Ian_Daniher: confusion's normal around here. (Here being defined "wherever I currently am".) |
| 05:09.00 | Ian_Daniher | landley: look at the right-side column - NXP LPC2368 |
| 05:09.34 | landley | Ian_DaniherAh, arm7. |
| 05:09.42 | Ian_Daniher | more precisely "mbed NXP LPC1768" |
| 05:09.47 | Ian_Daniher | yep |
| 05:10.01 | Ian_Daniher | it's an ARM7 dev board with a *ton* of peripherals |
| 05:10.03 | landley | Cool. |
| 05:10.17 | Ian_Daniher | for sixty USD |
| 05:10.55 | landley | armv4t? |
| 05:11.04 | landley | I have a toolchain for that. :) |
| 05:11.24 | landley | I'm working on a release of my Firmware Linux project, probably have something out tomorrow or wednesday. |
| 05:11.41 | landley | This release adds armv4t-eabi. |
| 05:11.53 | landley | Before I had armv4l-oabi and armv5l-eabi, but no armv4tl-eabi. |
| 05:12.05 | landley | Which should not require patching the compiler, but does. :P |
| 05:12.28 | Ian_Daniher | googles like crazy |
| 05:12.36 | landley | http://impactlinux.com/fwl |
| 05:12.47 | Ian_Daniher | I know the difference between ARM7 and ARM9, what a MMU is, and a ton about various peripherals |
| 05:12.51 | Ian_Daniher | but past that, I'm pretty new to edev |
| 05:12.52 | landley | The "armv4" names are the "architecture". |
| 05:13.10 | landley | the arm7/arm9 names (without a "v" in them) are processor designs. |
| 05:13.16 | landley | One's instruction set, the other's circuitry. |
| 05:13.26 | Ian_Daniher | ooooh |
| 05:13.34 | Ian_Daniher | tyvm :) |
| 05:13.45 | landley | From a software standpoint, you care about architecture. From a hardware standpoint, you care about the chip. |
| 05:13.54 | landley | Your toolchain, being software, targets an architecture. |
| 05:14.00 | landley | arm7 is armv4t. |
| 05:14.12 | landley | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM7 |
| 05:14.32 | Ian_Daniher | nods |
| 05:14.36 | Ian_Daniher | Q3: What are OABI and EABI? |
| 05:14.57 | Ian_Daniher | A3: They are two kinds of ABI (Application Binary Interface). The âOâ stands for âOldâ, and the âEâ means âEmbeddedâ, a new approach to API for portable devices like the Zaurus. |
| 05:15.58 | landley | Exactly. |
| 05:16.24 | landley | The Linux guys patched something together when they added ARM support (the first properly supported non-x86 architecture", but it was _very_ ad-hoc. |
| 05:16.37 | Ian_Daniher | landley: so you're thinking that your fwl project should support the armv4l-eabi instruction set that's used by the ARM7 chip used in the mbed? |
| 05:16.53 | Ian_Daniher | s/should/could/ |
| 05:16.59 | landley | The ABI often differs from target to target, such as the way solaris, Linux, BSD, and MacOSX binaries are different even on the same hardware. |
| 05:17.00 | Ian_Daniher | s/could/may/ |
| 05:17.29 | landley | The ARM people in england went "ok, here's something coherent and well documented that makes floating point suck less", and that was the new ABI (EABI). |
| 05:17.59 | landley | But A) it was incompatible with the old stuff, B) it required the Thumb instruction set extensions which didn't show up until armv4t. So there are still arm chips out there that can't run EABI binaries. |
| 05:18.32 | landley | Yes, the new release I'm doing this week adds armv4tl as a supported architecture. |
| 05:18.38 | Ian_Daniher | Woot! I just mbed is apparently open-hardware enough that they supply schematics |
| 05:19.03 | landley | Before that you needed armv5l (all armv5 chips support thumb, the way all 586 processors include floating point instructors, even though in the 486 and 386 those were optional add-ons). |
| 05:19.05 | Ian_Daniher | landley: Thanks for explaining! It makes more sense now :) |
| 05:19.35 | landley | the "l" part means little endian, by the way. I have an armv4b for completeness (big endian) but almost no hardware is set up that way. |
| 05:20.15 | landley | armv4 is pretty much the 486 of arm. All the new chips can run that code, but you get about a 25% speed boost recompiling for armv5 if the hardware supports that. (And similar for armv6, and armv7) |
| 05:20.40 | Ian_Daniher | nifty |
| 05:20.41 | landley | There's an armv3 but it's obsolete, there's not really any hardware still in use that _doesn't_ support armv4. (Certainly not still in production, anyway.) |
| 05:21.20 | landley | This page is marvelously helpful for understanding arm architectures: http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/architecture.html |
| 05:22.13 | Ian_Daniher | bookmarks |
| 05:22.52 | landley | There even used to be an armv2, and before that the original arm in the "bbc micro" from back in the 1980's. But those are like the 8086: interesting to computer historians (like me) but not a prayer of running a modern OS on 'em. |
| 05:23.04 | landley | I believe armv3 was the first 32-bit one. |
| 05:23.50 | Ian_Daniher | interesting |
| 05:24.14 | landley | The really _cool_ thing about arm is the core chip is something like 43,000 transistors total. It's a _tiny_ little streamlined design that can thus be really really low power. |
| 05:24.22 | landley | Best power consumption to performance ratio out there. |
| 05:25.03 | landley | Best "bang for the watt", instead of best "bang for the buck" that x86 gives you (while sucking down the juice and having a giant heat sink with a fan bolted on top of it) |
| 05:25.55 | landley | Ian_Daniher: that site does look good. |
| 05:26.12 | landley | Mostly my FWL project is targeting the emulator qemu first, and real hardware second. |
| 05:26.28 | Ian_Daniher | landley: mbed.org looks good? |
| 05:26.39 | landley | It cross compiles just enough to give you a native development environment, and then lets you boot that under the emulator to build stuff nativly. |
| 05:26.51 | landley | mbed.org looks pretty good at first glance, anyway. |
| 05:27.04 | landley | I haven't actually played with it. |
| 05:27.12 | landley | prpplague is the guy you'd want to ask about that, and he went to bed. |
| 05:27.14 | Ian_Daniher | landley: seconded |
| 05:27.52 | Ian_Daniher | prpplague: consider this an outstanding 'ping' to ask you about mbed |
| 05:28.50 | Ian_Daniher | landley: on the lines of your "bang for the watt" mentality, I wonder if Google will move to ARM for servers - it sounds utterly ridiculous, but 1+ghz Arm chips are becoming more plentiful and google focusses upon that metric, bang-for-watt, not bang-for-buck. |
| 05:28.50 | landley | Does this thing have onboard memory? (If so, how much?) Or do you need to attach it to memory? |
| 05:29.06 | landley | They talk about loading code onto the thing, but I can't find out how much flash or dram it has...? |
| 05:29.25 | landley | And do you _have_ to use their compiler or can you fire up your own? (Is it powerful enough to run linux? If so what's the kernel .config...?) |
| 05:29.41 | Ian_Daniher | This mbed Microcontroller is based on a Cortex-M3 Core running at 100MHz, with 512KB FLASH, 64KB RAM and a load of interfaces including Ethernet, USB Device, CAN, SPI, I2C and other I/O. |
| 05:29.53 | landley | Ian_Daniher: Ubuntu was playing with that. Their new 9.10 release has an arm version. |
| 05:30.58 | Ian_Daniher | I know, and I'm excited about it :D |
| 05:31.20 | Ian_Daniher | has near-zero benefit to me short term, but I'm hoping to see a decent ARM netbook within the next few years |
| 05:31.41 | landley | The thing about the PC is it has standard hardware beyond just the processor. |
| 05:32.30 | landley | It's got a ROM based bootloader (I.E. PC bios), and then standard busses (PCI and vestigial ISA for things like the clock chip and keyboard controller) to which standard-ish peripherals get attached (drive controller, graphics card, etc). |
| 05:32.54 | landley | ARM hasn't really got that. |
| 05:33.12 | landley | You can't just go "install from this USB drive" (or cd image). |
| 05:33.21 | landley | You need a jtag, which is beyond most people's pain threshold. |
| 05:33.22 | Ian_Daniher | very true |
| 05:33.43 | landley | And the OTHER advantage is you can't easily brick something that has a write protected bios. |
| 05:34.23 | Ian_Daniher | true |
| 05:34.25 | landley | So playing around with it doesn't have huge consequences the way it can with headless boxes. |
| 05:35.26 | landley | Anyway, lemme know if you're interested in Firmware Linux. Playing around in an emulator is a great with to get up to speed on non-x86 architectures. |
| 05:35.29 | Ian_Daniher | oh hot damn - it appears that I can simply dl the mbed library and use gcc |
| 05:35.39 | landley | Cool. |
| 05:35.48 | landley | The mbed library is something similar to newlib, I'm guessing? |
| 05:36.31 | Ian_Daniher | alternatively, having a zero-conf compiler avail from any computer would/will/may be nice |
| 05:36.49 | Ian_Daniher | landley: I believe so, yes |
| 05:38.16 | Ian_Daniher | http://mbed.org/tour/#library |
| 05:39.16 | landley | More like http://mbed.org/handbook/Programming I think. |
| 05:39.42 | Ian_Daniher | that too :) |
| 05:40.19 | landley | I've seen a few things like newlib+libgloss that are aimed at running programs on the bare metal without an OS. |
| 05:40.48 | landley | Things like serial drivers live in the library, and all your code runs in ring 0 on top of something a lot like DOS. |
| 05:40.56 | Ian_Daniher | most of the other edev experience I have is with atmega / attiny chips |
| 05:41.05 | landley | I tend to install Linux on things, myself. :) |
| 05:41.09 | Ian_Daniher | so I'm used to working without an OS |
| 05:41.26 | Ian_Daniher | however, I run linux on most everything I own, so... :D |
| 05:41.45 | Ian_Daniher | I whole-heartedly approve of your tendency to install Linux on everything |
| 05:42.38 | Ian_Daniher | anyway, I unfortunately have a few homework assignments to finish up before it gets too much later |
| 05:43.12 | Ian_Daniher | thanks for your help! I'm going to study the link on ARM arch types you sent me tomorrow, hopefully it will help clarify the last few concepts I miss |
| 05:46.58 | landley | You're welcome. g'night. |
| 05:50.10 | Ian_Daniher | s/I miss/I'm missing/ |
| 05:50.49 | landley | Ian_Daniher: found the memory/flash info. |
| 05:50.58 | landley | It's 64k sram, max. |
| 05:51.08 | landley | Not something anybody's going to run Linux on any time soon. :) |
| 05:51.40 | Ian_Daniher | 002913 < Ian_Daniher> This mbed Microcontroller is based on a Cortex-M3 Core running at 100MHz, with 512KB FLASH, 64KB RAM |
| 05:51.51 | Ian_Daniher | Agreed |
| 05:52.25 | landley | Actually that was the new cortex one (armv7), the arm7 one (armv4t) maxes out at 40k sram. |
| 05:52.44 | landley | And yes, arm7 being armv4t rather than armv7 _is_ confusing. |
| 05:53.31 | landley | But possibly that's cache and you can hook up your own external dram? Dunno. |
| 05:54.00 | landley | I await _somebody_ selling a development system that's as cheap _and_ as capable as a low-end linksys router. |
| 05:54.26 | landley | Until then, buying a router and cracking it open will continue to be the intro for lots of people. And these days, that's mostly mips... |
| 06:10.19 | Ian_Daniher | on that note, I have uh... six? wrt54gs of various types |
| 06:11.36 | Ian_Daniher | I got them from the town dump for experimentation, but need ideas with regards to what I can do with them besides dumping ddwrt on them and using them for repeaters |
| 06:13.54 | calculus | Ian_Daniher: it seems like landley helped you out quite a bit |
| 06:14.06 | landley | calculus: tried to, anyway. :) |
| 06:14.18 | calculus | the compiler for mbed is actually arm's commercial real view compiler |
| 06:15.14 | calculus | nothing is stopping you from compiling the stuff on your own, but you are basically limited to 512K of flash for the program |
| 06:16.01 | calculus | the device shows up as usb mass storage (~2MB worth) which you can use from you program to log stuff (if you wish) |
| 06:16.20 | calculus | or add more flash via the pins, using an sd card reader or some such |
| 06:16.40 | landley | calculus: the 64k or less of sram seems like a real limitation. |
| 06:16.54 | landley | I can't find a way to add dram to it. Probably is one, not really my area... |
| 06:16.59 | calculus | it is a microcontroller, like an arduino |
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| 06:20.13 | calculus | landley: not sure either, but the idea of not having to configure a compiler or understand arm7 vs armv7 is a lot easier for many people |
| 06:21.03 | monkey_ | ello gov'na |
| 06:24.04 | landley | Hiya monkey_. How goes? |
| 06:24.17 | landley | calculus: that's why I provide prebuilt compilers. :) |
| 06:24.29 | landley | And next release I need better documentation so it lists what chips each compiler targets. |
| 06:25.21 | landley | Right now it's just a mess at http://impactlinux.com/code/firmware/downloads/binaries/ |
| 06:25.36 | landley | But next release I hope to clean that up into something more coherent. |
| 06:32.01 | monkey_ | landley: it's ok. |
| 06:32.21 | monkey_ | school is kicking my butt |
| 06:32.24 | monkey_ | but it's bed time now :( |
| 06:39.16 | landley | g'night. |
| 06:43.34 | calculus | landley: here is a breakdown of arm chips that a gentoo dev is working on, http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/chost.xml |
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| 06:55.19 | landley | Huh, I thought all armv5's were v5tej. |
| 06:56.04 | landley | Good reference, thanks. |
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| 08:02.47 | Ian_Daniher | calculus: ping |
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| 15:07.49 | chouimat | morning |
| 15:07.57 | chouimat | ncftp |
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| 15:29.47 | pingbat | Hey, does anyone know if it is possible to solder those ribbon tabs you get on LCD's ? |
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| 15:37.23 | SpeedEvil | you mean flat printed circuit connectors/ |
| 15:38.07 | pingbat | yup |
| 15:38.42 | SpeedEvil | generally not easily |
| 15:38.42 | pingbat | is that the official name for them? |
| 15:38.58 | SpeedEvil | with low temperature solder, yes. |
| 15:39.06 | SpeedEvil | and yes |
| 15:39.11 | SpeedEvil | FPC cables |
| 15:40.46 | pingbat | thanks very much |
| 15:41.12 | pingbat | i think on closer inspection i'll give it a miss and get something made up |
| 15:41.27 | pingbat | don't have low temp solder |
| 15:41.42 | pingbat | :-( |
| 15:43.00 | pingbat | and does anyone have any experience with UNI-T tools |
| 15:43.18 | pingbat | i have a DMM that went bad and Maplin refuse to repair or replace |
| 15:43.46 | SpeedEvil | how old? |
| 15:44.19 | pingbat | less than 6 years |
| 15:44.42 | pingbat | i think sales of goods should cover a DMM for that long |
| 15:45.00 | SpeedEvil | ah - well - 6 years... |
| 15:45.17 | pingbat | it's about 3 years old |
| 15:45.20 | SpeedEvil | If it's under 6 months - there is a stronger obligation, which was what Iw as meaning. |
| 15:45.26 | SpeedEvil | how uch was it? |
| 15:45.30 | pingbat | £100 |
| 15:46.39 | pingbat | i am a poor student |
| 15:48.09 | SpeedEvil | Did you abuse it? |
| 15:48.18 | pingbat | i not at all |
| 15:48.51 | pingbat | i hardly used it |
| 15:49.08 | pingbat | but have greater need of it now |
| 15:51.05 | SpeedEvil | You could in principle do the small claims court thing. |
| 15:51.34 | SpeedEvil | For a DMM that's 10 times the price of others on the market, you expect some level of reliability. |
| 15:51.40 | SpeedEvil | What model? |
| 15:51.52 | pingbat | would they have to travel to my court? |
| 15:51.58 | pingbat | it's a UT70D |
| 15:52.40 | pingbat | Maplin have terrible customer service |
| 15:55.57 | pingbat | i was thinking if i threatened the small claims court thing they'd capitulate to save the cost for the sake of a £100 item |
| 15:57.42 | SpeedEvil | yes, as I understand it. |
| 15:57.46 | SpeedEvil | moneyclaim.co.uk |
| 15:57.58 | SpeedEvil | or some similar site is the small claims court online interface |
| 15:58.07 | SpeedEvil | you will of course need to actually turn up in court |
| 15:58.24 | pingbat | and will i tbe a court local to me or to Maplin? |
| 15:58.27 | SpeedEvil | letter to head office first of course |
| 15:58.32 | SpeedEvil | as I understand it, local to you |
| 15:59.01 | pingbat | hmm, thanks |
| 15:59.06 | SpeedEvil | 'if no response in 14 days, I will be initiating action in the small claims court' 'durability expected of a product that is 10* the cost of hte cheapest DMMs, ... |
| 16:00.31 | pingbat | i think the point you raised there is quite valuable |
| 16:00.38 | pingbat | thanks a lot |
| 16:03.13 | SpeedEvil | good luck |
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| 16:05.37 | pingbat | i'm going to bring the giant to it's knees |
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| 21:06.50 | chouimat | quiet today |
| 21:12.37 | prpplague | indeed |
| 21:24.10 | likewise | boo |
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| 22:10.47 | Mirell | prpplague: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/11/03/exclusive_look_at_apples_new_ipod_touch_based_easypay_checkout.html |
| 22:13.03 | pingbat | they could have used the camera for barcodes |
| 22:13.05 | pingbat | shame |
| 22:14.20 | kergoth | if an ipod touch had a camera, i'm sure they would ahve. |
| 22:16.12 | pingbat | i thought it dod |
| 22:16.15 | pingbat | did oops |
| 22:16.19 | pingbat | :-P |
| 22:19.03 | prpplague | looks |
| 22:20.16 | prpplague | yea thats a symbol/motorola SE-955 scan engine |
| 22:20.25 | prpplague | another nail in AML's coffin |
| 22:20.32 | prpplague | dumbasses |
| 22:21.59 | Mirell | Finally lets Apple almost get rid of the WinMo scanners they had |
| 22:24.47 | pingbat | no chip and pin? |
| 22:25.18 | Mirell | I did a WHOIS on you because I suspected you were British |
| 22:25.24 | Mirell | Yah, we don't have that in the US |
| 22:25.44 | pingbat | really? |
| 22:25.52 | Mirell | Nope |
| 22:25.58 | pingbat | that's a surprise |
| 22:27.23 | Mirell | It's not particularly anymore secure. |
| 22:27.31 | pingbat | true |
| 22:28.29 | pingbat | and it does tend to lead to people not even looking at the card |
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| 23:53.10 | adyer | I'm digging this font: http://www.sensi.org/~svo/glasstty/ :-) |
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