| 00:25.54 | wmat | davidc__: heh, it's more development of them |
| 00:26.13 | davidc__ | wmat: honestly, I think the GCC internals would also make me lose my sanity |
| 00:26.17 | wmat | also, they have a cool High Performance Computing position as well |
| 00:26.26 | davidc__ | wmat: don't you work for them? |
| 00:26.37 | wmat | no, i did in the past though |
| 00:26.58 | davidc__ | wmat: also, sometimes when I look at the GCC / GDB internals, I become convinced that it was created by a dark god as a cruel joke on the world |
| 00:27.06 | wmat | they have a good product and they're great people, which is why I recommend them |
| 00:27.14 | wmat | haha |
| 00:27.42 | davidc__ | [and I've hacked on both before, though not extensively] |
| 00:58.30 | Mirell | There's a reason people are interested in clang development.. |
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| 02:31.52 | *** topic/#edev is A channel for the discussion of embedded systems (Hardware/Software/Linux/WinCE/Commercial Device Repurposing) : Firmware Linux Discussion : Busybox and Buildroot Discussion : Gold 1218.00 : Silver 18.75 |
| 03:22.12 | Ian_Daniher | How easy is it to port atmega code designed for a 16MHz clock to a 12MHz clock? Unless the tollerance is extremely tight, shouldn't it be a simple manner of adjusting the clock speed in a header file? |
| 03:38.46 | bsdfox | Ian_Daniher: depends what the code does |
| 03:39.16 | bsdfox | if it's counting overflows for some timing you'd have to adjust other values and/or prescalers |
| 03:53.00 | MonMotha | yeah, it depends on how well the codebase was written |
| 03:54.57 | bsdfox | any reason you don't want to run it at 16mhz? |
| 04:04.02 | MonMotha | 12MHz will exempt you from lots of EMC compliance testing. 16MHz will not. |
| 04:04.09 | MonMotha | no idea if that's the reason, but it's a consideration |
| 04:04.28 | MonMotha | some of the AVRs are also spec'd for 12MHz at 3.3V, but can only run higher at 5V. |
| 04:08.17 | MonMotha | that said, I've run one of Atmel's 8051s that was spec'd for 12MHz at 5V operation at 20MHz at 3V. Worked fine. |
| 04:08.24 | MonMotha | didn't like to go much above 20, though :) |
| 04:27.29 | monkey_ | for some reason in our class, we had a talk with a guy who works at MS doing .net microframework |
| 04:27.39 | monkey_ | it's 50-100 times slower than running raw code |
| 04:28.18 | MonMotha | awesome |
| 04:28.26 | MonMotha | that's definitely something I look for when coding on a small microcontroller |
| 04:28.28 | monkey_ | which he said himeself |
| 04:28.36 | MonMotha | it's like using a BASIC Stamp :) |
| 04:28.40 | monkey_ | lol |
| 04:29.17 | monkey_ | what do you look for in a ucontroller |
| 04:31.44 | rektide | depends on what you need to code |
| 04:31.50 | rektide | sometimes speed really just does not matter |
| 04:33.03 | MonMotha | ok, so use Lua or something |
| 04:33.09 | MonMotha | still quite a lot faster |
| 04:33.23 | MonMotha | and I'm sure much, much smaller |
| 04:33.44 | rektide | sudden urge to start running node.js and v8 on my uc's |
| 04:33.46 | MonMotha | and people wonder why WinMo phones/pdas are so slow... |
| 04:34.06 | MonMotha | these devices do not have 4GB of RAM and dual 4GHz processors |
| 04:34.17 | MonMotha | heck, some of my micros have 4kB of RAM and a single 4MHz processor :) |
| 04:34.29 | rektide | i have a home automation network |
| 04:34.43 | rektide | <384 bytes of ram, 2k of flash (12 bit opcodes) |
| 04:34.50 | rektide | but uh... 75 MHz. |
| 04:34.55 | MonMotha | jeesh |
| 04:35.01 | MonMotha | are those PICs? |
| 04:35.10 | rektide | it was a pic clone, scenix (now ubicom) sx |
| 04:35.21 | MonMotha | PICs have to run ridiculously fast to get acceptable performance due to the ancient architecture |
| 04:35.24 | MonMotha | that's why |
| 04:35.31 | rektide | witness the blazing mhz made possible by, gasp, pipelined architecture |
| 04:35.45 | rektide | dunno, i didnt find the asm that limiting |
| 04:35.47 | MonMotha | a PIC at 40MHz is about equal to an AVR at ~10-12MHz |
| 04:36.13 | MonMotha | I find the architecture very weird (oddball register file and addressing modes), but I was talking about the fact that almost all instructions are multi-cycle |
| 04:36.42 | MonMotha | whereas on AVR, most instructions are single-cycle |
| 04:36.49 | rektide | i was writing asm, and it was almost all single cycle, branches excepted. |
| 04:36.56 | rektide | and only some branching |
| 04:37.08 | MonMotha | really...my experience with PIC was that I averaged about 2-4 cycles per instruction |
| 04:37.13 | rektide | albiet the instruction set was reall really limited |
| 04:37.17 | MonMotha | AVR is more like 1.2 |
| 04:37.44 | rektide | i'm about to dust it off and reinstall the home automation system, there's some programming i need to do on it |
| 04:37.55 | rektide | i'll be more familiar with the instruction set in 2-3 weeks |
| 04:38.07 | rektide | been ~3 years since i've done more than plug the thing in |
| 04:38.24 | rektide | this was also pipelined |
| 04:38.37 | rektide | unlike every other pic in existance at the time |
| 04:39.22 | rektide | i think that pipelining probably hid the latency |
| 04:39.30 | MonMotha | ah, yes, it would |
| 04:39.40 | MonMotha | that's how you get single cycle execution |
| 04:39.41 | rektide | instructions took 4 cycles to get through the pipe, if you wrote then read a register, it added 2 cycle latency |
| 04:39.44 | rektide | yup |
| 04:39.46 | rektide | exactly |
| 04:39.47 | MonMotha | otherwise almost all archs are at least 2 cycles per instruction |
| 04:39.56 | MonMotha | fetch/decode then execute/retire |
| 04:40.02 | rektide | right exactly |
| 04:40.10 | rektide | glad we got that sorted |
| 04:40.18 | MonMotha | yeah, I didn't realize it was pipelined |
| 04:40.20 | MonMotha | that would change a lot of stuff |
| 04:40.33 | rektide | < rektide> witness the blazing mhz made possible by, gasp, pipelined architecture |
| 04:40.42 | MonMotha | you can get single cycle 8051s, now. The original had every instruction (even a lowly mov r0, r1) at 12 cycles |
| 04:40.51 | rektide | OHGOD |
| 04:41.10 | MonMotha | I thought you were just referring to the fact that splitting up instructions into multiple steps (one component of pipelining) let you increase the clock speed, which it does |
| 04:41.28 | MonMotha | and combined with instructions with variable cycle counts, you can get better performance than having everything be single cycle on a non-pipelined arch |
| 04:41.34 | rektide | ah, superpipelining, yes, thats hte term |
| 04:41.38 | rektide | my mistake |
| 04:41.50 | MonMotha | no, pipelining means exactly what you said |
| 04:42.02 | MonMotha | I just didn't interpret it that way since I wasn't aware of pipelined PICs |
| 04:42.09 | rektide | superpipelining means multiple instructions in the pipeline at once, which is what htese did |
| 04:42.13 | MonMotha | superpipelining I'm guessing refers to multiple-issue |
| 04:42.15 | rektide | if i'm not mistaken |
| 04:42.16 | rektide | yes |
| 04:42.18 | rektide | wai |
| 04:42.21 | rektide | hmm |
| 04:42.24 | rektide | unsure |
| 04:42.26 | MonMotha | aka a superscaler arch (the term Intel uses) |
| 04:42.55 | MonMotha | multiple-issue lets you actually get more than one instruction done per clock cycle |
| 04:43.00 | MonMotha | all the high end CPUs do that |
| 04:43.25 | MonMotha | ARM11 (and I think ARM9, to an extent, and possibly even ARM7), AVR32, i586 and newer |
| 04:43.38 | MonMotha | that's how you get IPC > 1 |
| 04:43.46 | MonMotha | aka > 1MIPS/MHz |
| 04:43.53 | rektide | ok yeah |
| 04:43.57 | rektide | yeah, right |
| 04:44.35 | MonMotha | I've not heard the term superpipelining before, but then I'd never heard the term "superscaler" before when somebody used it, and I looked like an idiot as he tried to explain it to me, and I finally went "oh, multiple issue?" |
| 04:44.36 | rektide | Cortex kind of left the conventional ARMn number scheme behind, did it? |
| 04:44.42 | MonMotha | yeah, it did |
| 04:44.49 | MonMotha | gogo marketing |
| 04:44.59 | MonMotha | the old scheme actually tended to make more sense |
| 04:45.15 | MonMotha | like the A8 is better than an A7, but the A9 is a stripped down A8 for lower cost |
| 04:45.36 | MonMotha | then there's the M series |
| 04:45.38 | rektide | apparently superpipelined is just a marketing term referring to inordinately long pipelines |
| 04:45.54 | MonMotha | oh, so the Pentium 4 :) |
| 04:45.59 | rektide | exactly |
| 04:46.06 | MonMotha | 37 stages was it? |
| 04:46.17 | rektide | i didnt have enough fingers & toes to count |
| 04:46.18 | MonMotha | ever heard about the (hypothetical) infinitely pipelined processor? |
| 04:46.27 | rektide | hahaha what? no |
| 04:46.33 | MonMotha | that is, a processor with inifinitely many pipeline stages |
| 04:46.42 | rektide | async processors might qualify |
| 04:46.57 | MonMotha | you can clock it infinitely fast since each pipeline stage is infinitely small, but it never gets anything done since nothing ever makes it to the end of the (infinitely long) pipeline |
| 04:46.59 | rektide | only by virtue of poorly defined timing requirements |
| 04:47.18 | rektide | ah man, thats super |
| 04:47.25 | MonMotha | When my computer arch prof introduced it, he did a *cough*Pentium 4*cough* maneuver. It was funny. |
| 04:47.41 | rektide | intel really thought they were going to get to 8ghz with that |
| 04:47.44 | MonMotha | yup |
| 04:47.48 | rektide | oh man |
| 04:47.50 | rektide | :/ |
| 04:47.55 | rektide | here we are, at 3GHz. still. |
| 04:48.00 | MonMotha | and if they could have, the performance hit of a mispredicted branch wouldn't have been as big of a deal |
| 04:48.23 | MonMotha | but at 3GHz, no branch predictor was good enough (and they made a GOOD one) to overcome the hit of flushing that long of a pipeline |
| 04:48.33 | rektide | i remember friends freaking out about DDR CAS latencies being so big |
| 04:48.45 | MonMotha | well, it's a consideration |
| 04:48.56 | rektide | pretty sure a core2duo branch predictor would beat the living tar out of a p4 predictor, no? |
| 04:49.02 | MonMotha | I don't remember |
| 04:49.35 | MonMotha | I don't seem to recall the Penryn branch predictor being a lot better than Netburst |
| 04:50.47 | rektide | any idea what got stripped out of the A9? |
| 04:51.50 | rektide | i'd really love to see a good mobile desktop replacement. and dual 2ghz cores running just under 1 watt sounds really nice for that. |
| 04:52.53 | rektide | marvell's also doing good stuff with arm. they're kind of off on their own, improvising instead of just implementing ARM Holdings IP |
| 04:55.02 | MonMotha | yes |
| 04:55.25 | MonMotha | I don't remember what got stripped out, but I recall it's somewhat substantial |
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| 04:55.48 | MonMotha | I still want a dual core Cortex A8 ~1GHz netbook w/ a DSP for media devoce |
| 04:55.51 | MonMotha | *decode |
| 04:55.58 | MonMotha | in other words, I want a netbook with a high end TI OMAP in it:) |
| 04:56.24 | MonMotha | if I was overflowing with money, I'd make one |
| 04:57.31 | rektide | i havent really investigated, but i tend to assume GPU is going to dominate the role traditionally held by DSPs |
| 04:57.48 | MonMotha | well, that's another option |
| 04:58.03 | MonMotha | I don't need high end 3D. I just want GOOD media encode/decode |
| 04:58.08 | MonMotha | (mostly decode) |
| 04:58.53 | rektide | it'd be interesting to investigate how the various media accelerators attach into the rest of hte gpu architecture |
| 04:58.57 | rektide | i've never really looked at that |
| 04:59.19 | rektide | right now, i'm a little aggro that PowerVR is the _only_ company selling GPU IP to SoC |
| 04:59.40 | rektide | amd sold imageon to qualcomm, who no longer resells it. creative's zii and nvidia's tegra dont resell. |
| 05:00.12 | rektide | seems like a really really weird and bad place for the industry to be in, dependent on powervr to advance the industry. even if the next gen powervr chip is omg drool worthy. |
| 05:00.32 | MonMotha | for whatever reason, that market seems to have a desire to be very closed with documentation and proprietary |
| 05:00.38 | rektide | for now |
| 05:00.49 | rektide | i really really think amd open source drivers are going to change the world |
| 05:01.46 | rektide | theres a number of huge wins already for the drivers, done with minimal effort |
| 05:01.48 | rektide | i dont know how it works |
| 05:02.08 | rektide | but apparently its step 1) write a gallium state tracker for what you want to accelerate step 2) profit |
| 05:02.14 | MonMotha | sadly, even though they defeat most of the X architecture and are pretty much "works or it don't", the nvidia stuff still seems to work better |
| 05:02.41 | rektide | for across the board performance and general usability, right now, yes |
| 05:02.53 | MonMotha | performance? I just want it to WORK. |
| 05:02.58 | MonMotha | right now, that's still nvidia |
| 05:03.05 | rektide | yes |
| 05:03.13 | MonMotha | not saying I approve, but that's the way it is |
| 05:03.22 | rektide | although the closed source fglrx drivers are finally getting decent |
| 05:03.39 | rektide | yay? i can rotate my multi monitor displays? |
| 05:04.15 | rektide | gallium really seems to have huge promise, even though its a drastic rewrite |
| 05:04.57 | rektide | browsers not open... there've been a couple phoronix benchmarks that have taken my breath away |
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| 14:28.06 | kergoth | morning |
| 14:32.56 | chouimat | morning |
| 14:34.24 | prpplague | whatever |
| 14:35.45 | prpplague | slaps kergoth and chouimat around like the three stooges |
| 14:35.58 | kergoth | a wise guy! |
| 14:42.19 | prpplague | that's me |
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| 15:28.34 | chouimat | prpplague: good morning great old one ;) |
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| 16:16.00 | Mirell | Man, Short-Range Transceivers are 'SPENSIVE |
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| 18:30.46 | juub | Excuse me if this is an obvious or well documented question, but has anyone explored using firmware linux for routers? I'm using OpenWRT right now on my Linksys WRT54GL router, and Firmware Linux seemed like the ideal replacement when I first saw it. |
| 18:38.52 | calculus | too bad landley isn't here to help you out with that question |
| 18:40.21 | prpplague | juub: FWL would work well for routers |
| 18:55.13 | juub | prpplague: know of any existing projects aiming to provide router firmware? |
| 18:56.31 | prpplague | sorry no |
| 18:56.38 | juub | nods |
| 18:56.47 | juub | Thanks for the response, at least. |
| 18:57.52 | juub | Is there an accompanying website for #edev? |
| 19:01.05 | calculus | www.elinux.org would be my guess |
| 19:01.57 | juub | Ah, nice. Thanks. |
| 19:04.15 | calculus | prpplague: speaking of which maybe that should be mentioned in the topic, unless it is the wrong site |
| 19:05.11 | prpplague | calculus: yea |
| 19:05.33 | *** topic/#edev by prpplague -> A channel for the discussion of embedded systems (Hardware/Software/Linux/WinCE/Commercial Device Repurposing) : Firmware Linux Discussion : Busybox and Buildroot Discussion : http://www.elinux.org |
| 19:13.01 | Mirell | What. Who took away the Gold/Silver index. |
| 19:13.08 | Mirell | Damnit, that's the entire reason I stay in this channel. |
| 19:15.22 | mnemoc | :) |
| 19:16.03 | Spida | you can throw the "a Channel" part away, too. I believer everybody knows that this is "a Channel" |
| 19:16.09 | Spida | -r |
| 19:16.57 | mnemoc | but it looks more "human friendly" that way |
| 19:17.28 | mnemoc | imo |
| 19:18.50 | juub | "For the discussion of embedded systems ..." sounds alright to me. |
| 19:20.06 | juub | ... wait a second. Were those Gold and Silver values the /actual/ real world values? |
| 19:20.42 | Spida | and why do they matter enough to be in the topic of this channel? |
| 19:22.58 | mnemoc | to bother Mirell |
| 19:31.27 | Mirell | juub: Yep |
| 19:31.46 | Mirell | mnemoc: Actually the reverse, it was to nag prpplague. :D |
| 19:32.22 | MonMotha | juub: IIRC, those are the futures contract prices, not the spot prices |
| 19:34.49 | juub | Not what I thought at-all when I joined. I wasn't even going to ask, I figured some crude (possibly WoW style) game economy stats, or something. |
| 19:35.41 | Mirell | Heh, no. |
| 19:38.57 | mnemoc | Mirell: oh |
| 19:43.09 | *** join/#edev brolin (n=brolin@201.232.107.129) |
| 19:43.13 | *** topic/#edev by prpplague -> Discussion of embedded systems (Hardware/Software/Linux/WinCE/Commercial Device Repurposing) : Firmware Linux Discussion : Busybox and Buildroot Discussion : http://www.elinux.org |
| 19:44.00 | prpplague | juub: hehe, no just me being obsessive about some investments |
| 19:45.18 | juub | prpplague: ah. :) |
| 19:46.30 | juub | hmm, you could shave off three more characters if you stick to the latter formatting: "Embedded Systems Discussion ..." |
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| 19:56.06 | *** topic/#edev by prpplague -> Discussion of embedded systems (Hardware/Software/Linux/WinCE/Commercial Device Repurposing) : Firmware Linux(aka FWL) : Busybox and Buildroot : http://www.elinux.org |
| 19:56.28 | juub | :P |
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| 20:20.45 | mnemoc | rob will probably be very happy with that $topic :) |
| 20:23.13 | *** topic/#edev by Mirell -> Discussion of embedded systems (Hardware/Software/Linux/WinCE/Commercial Device Repurposing) : Firmware Linux (FWL) : Busybox and Buildroot : http://www.elinux.org |
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| 20:53.25 | solar | never sees anybody talk about it but him |
| 20:56.25 | prpplague | fail - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,579799,00.html?test=latestnews |
| 20:56.43 | prpplague | maybe someone should submit that for a darwin award |
| 20:57.53 | mnemoc | o_O |
| 20:58.15 | florian | re |
| 20:58.23 | prpplague | florian: hey bud |
| 20:58.27 | prpplague | florian: what's cookin |
| 20:58.28 | prpplague | ?? |
| 20:58.35 | prpplague | procrastinates doing some soldering |
| 20:59.33 | florian | kernel hacking day! |
| 21:00.13 | prpplague | florian: dernel kacking hay? |
| 21:00.39 | florian | hehe |
| 21:01.19 | prpplague | lordy lordy lordy, i need to solder about another 30 caps and resistors |
| 21:01.24 | prpplague | all 603's :( |
| 21:05.02 | SpeedEvil | needs to add a current shunt into his cellphone battery, and measure stuff |
| 21:05.12 | SpeedEvil | but I think I will lie in bed instead. |
| 21:08.04 | Mirell | Hmm... |
| 21:08.15 | Mirell | So a Lenovo Netbook can't handle 2,000 HTTP sessions simultaneously. |
| 21:08.16 | Mirell | Shame. |
| 21:08.52 | SpeedEvil | I'd be surprised if it couldn't. |
| 21:09.18 | SpeedEvil | At least of basic static pages. |
| 21:10.24 | Spida | prpplague: 603? for what? |
| 21:11.58 | prpplague | OMAP3 based data collection device |
| 21:12.11 | prpplague | i'll actually be going to 402's on production |
| 21:12.22 | prpplague | but the PnP will do that of course |
| 21:12.26 | Spida | what kind of interfaces? |
| 21:13.10 | prpplague | a number of very custom differential bus interfaces |
| 21:13.47 | Spida | logging the data to flash, or aggregating it and pumping it out on some different interface? |
| 21:14.12 | florian | Mirell: heh... they have workstations for this purpose ;) |
| 21:14.28 | florian | prpplague: oh... 603 is fun :) |
| 21:15.16 | Spida | not having the correct valued resistor is fun: http://spida.net/tmp/dsc_0069a.jpg http://spida.net/tmp/dsc_0070a.jpg |
| 21:15.18 | prpplague | Spida: on board analysis and then storage with some display feedback via a gui |
| 21:15.46 | Mirell | SpeedEvil: Nope, not sustained for even a minute |
| 21:15.48 | prpplague | Spida: that's cute |
| 21:15.56 | florian | Spida: heh |
| 21:16.40 | SpeedEvil | Mirell: it's a hell of a lot faster than I've seen devices doing that, so I'm skeptical it can't be done |
| 21:17.08 | Spida | http://www.spida.net/tmp/dsc_0035b.jpg http://www.spida.net/tmp/dsc_0036b.jpg http://www.spida.net/tmp/dsc_0045b.jpg |
| 21:17.21 | Mirell | SpeedEvil: It was just a default install of Apache2. |
| 21:18.50 | Spida | Mirell: try lighttpd for static content |
| 21:19.17 | Mirell | Spida: I shall see. I'm just messing with the simulators here at work. And the netbook was easy to set down temporarily in the server room. |
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| 21:24.38 | prpplague | Spida: that an avr32 or an atmega? |
| 21:25.48 | prpplague | Spida: what's the second xtal for? |
| 21:28.41 | Spida | arm7 |
| 21:28.46 | Spida | at91sam7x512 |
| 21:28.52 | prpplague | ahh |
| 21:29.02 | Spida | the second is for the ethernet phy |
| 21:29.16 | prpplague | i recognize the usb and ethernet, whats the connector in between? |
| 21:29.28 | prpplague | Spida: ahh right for micrel part |
| 21:29.55 | Spida | usb host, usb device, ethernet, power |
| 21:30.15 | prpplague | ahh couldn't tell from the pic |
| 21:30.18 | MonMotha | sam7x has USB host? |
| 21:30.27 | Spida | no, max3421 has |
| 21:30.36 | MonMotha | ah |
| 21:30.57 | Spida | http://www.spida.net/tmp/dsc_0036b.jpg <- empty place bottom right |
| 21:31.09 | Spida | max3421 + max893 |
| 21:31.15 | prpplague | Spida: what is it your are trying to do? |
| 21:31.40 | Spida | mainly getting a display and some buttons into the network |
| 21:32.05 | Spida | and then see what kind of fun I can have with the usb-ports. |
| 21:32.34 | prpplague | ahh |
| 21:32.44 | prpplague | alot of work , but definetly a learning experience |
| 21:32.50 | Spida | jap |
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| 21:33.42 | Spida | prpplague: power over ethernet, ethernet and the buttons work. |
| 21:35.16 | Spida | and the rotational encoder |
| 21:35.44 | Spida | the display is on its way back to the shop to get replaced by a working one... |
| 21:36.24 | prpplague | Spida: could have been easy on yourself and just got a hammer board |
| 21:36.57 | calculus | Mirell: you may want to try nginx as another webserver |
| 21:37.30 | prpplague | or netcat with a bunch of shell scripts, hehe |
| 21:37.34 | prpplague | has done that before |
| 21:37.56 | Spida | prpplague: (a) I would have to write the code for that, too (b) I want to learn layouting for larger cpus. |
| 21:38.14 | prpplague | Spida: no need to write code, just boot linux |
| 21:38.26 | Spida | prpplague: not on an arm7 with 128k ram |
| 21:38.45 | SpeedEvil | Spida: swap over USB |
| 21:38.56 | MonMotha | sam7x is a nice unit, though I'm really liking the AVR32UC3 stuff |
| 21:39.17 | prpplague | http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_Board |
| 21:39.44 | MonMotha | more RAM, better peripherals (and apparently less buggy, too), high speed USB on some models, and an even more advanced event trigger/DMA system |
| 21:40.23 | SpeedEvil | yes - that's cool - but it's starting to look really long in the tooth. |
| 21:40.27 | SpeedEvil | ;/ |
| 21:40.27 | prpplague | MonMotha: i like the avr32 as well, but all the management types who use words like "paradyme shift" and "synergy" are all into the OMAP3 and Cortex-A8 these days |
| 21:40.32 | SpeedEvil | things get old so fast. |
| 21:40.58 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: which item were you refering to? |
| 21:41.07 | Spida | I am looking in direction of at91sam9210 or s3c4510 or lm3s9792 or lpc2478 for the next board |
| 21:41.09 | SpeedEvil | the hammer. |
| 21:41.35 | prpplague | is offended and looks at SpeedEvil rudely |
| 21:41.58 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: sorry - but I was once considering buying one - and regrettably, others have eaten the market. |
| 21:42.06 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea we need to drop the price |
| 21:42.08 | MonMotha | prpplague: understood, and it's not like those aren't nice CPUs |
| 21:42.29 | MonMotha | though I've not used AVR32AP7 at all. I'm thinking more the UC3 which competes more with ARM7TDMI and Cortex-M3 |
| 21:42.30 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: probably going to drop the costs down and probably make a deal with sparkfun on it |
| 21:42.32 | SpeedEvil | Sure. |
| 21:42.33 | SpeedEvil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/mini2440-S3C2440-ARM9-Board-3-5-TFT-LCD-Touch-Screen_W0QQitemZ120486037158QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0d8706a6 |
| 21:42.35 | SpeedEvil | say |
| 21:42.53 | MonMotha | Cortex-A8 and OMAP3 would be more in the market with AVR32AP7 |
| 21:43.15 | SpeedEvil | and yes - it's from china, and support is probably dubiosu. |
| 21:43.36 | SpeedEvil | dubious even. |
| 21:43.49 | SpeedEvil | Though they can probably type better than me. |
| 21:43.50 | Spida | there was a british reseller. |
| 21:43.51 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea i've seen the mini24xx but it really doesn't lend itself to hardware hacking |
| 21:44.01 | Spida | we have a bunch of these at our university |
| 21:44.11 | SpeedEvil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Product-Level-Samsung-S3C2440-ARM9-ARM-Core-Board_W0QQitemZ110413382725QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b5268445 is more of a direct competitor |
| 21:44.15 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: what are you looking to do? |
| 21:44.31 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:44.45 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: practically, at the moment, I have no spare cash. |
| 21:44.46 | prpplague | ahh i |
| 21:44.50 | prpplague | ahh i've not seen that one |
| 21:45.13 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: what are you looking to do? |
| 21:45.25 | SpeedEvil | At that time, I was looking at it for something similar to the mini2440 - with a hammer, and a psp LCD, or a home automation control panel. |
| 21:45.39 | SpeedEvil | And also the possibility of using it for controlling a UAV |
| 21:45.55 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: ahh right i think you mention that before |
| 21:46.18 | Spida | SpeedEvil: what kind of uav? |
| 21:46.32 | Spida | SpeedEvil: there are a bunch of projects... |
| 21:46.37 | SpeedEvil | china is really starting to kick into gear for the small one-two-man shops of clueful people. |
| 21:46.59 | Spida | not sure on the clueful |
| 21:47.12 | SpeedEvil | Which is a very scary thing for any of that sort of operation in the west. |
| 21:47.18 | SpeedEvil | well - starting |
| 21:47.21 | SpeedEvil | it's early days yet. |
| 21:47.23 | Spida | yes, ok |
| 21:47.41 | SpeedEvil | But 2-3 good people together can do a lot - especially if they can employ a dozen drones for nearly free. |
| 21:48.16 | SpeedEvil | blew _all_ his spare cash on a very discounted n900. |
| 21:54.09 | cmw | SpeedEvil: any good? |
| 21:54.15 | cmw | only downside is no 3g on AT&T :( |
| 21:55.19 | MonMotha | wants an N900 w/ CDMA2000 support, but won't get it. |
| 21:55.28 | SpeedEvil | very, very good. |
| 21:55.49 | SpeedEvil | I'm currently trying to work out why xchat isn't working by running gdb on the device. |
| 21:56.07 | SpeedEvil | and wishing there was a nice package in the repos with gcc |
| 21:57.11 | SpeedEvil | keyboard is lots better than I'd expected, the only niggle is that the front camera is shit. |
| 21:57.28 | Spida | thats not surprising |
| 21:57.39 | Spida | (the shitty camera) |
| 21:58.01 | SpeedEvil | the back camera is surprisingly good - but 5MP it's not. |
| 21:58.04 | MonMotha | I have yet to see a cell phone with anything better than a "possibly passable" camera |
| 21:58.14 | SpeedEvil | 5 real optical megapixels that is. |
| 21:58.53 | MonMotha | even a cheap $40 point and shoot is usually lightyears better than the best cell phone cameras |
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| 21:59.16 | SpeedEvil | I think this is slightly better than that. |
| 22:00.49 | SpeedEvil | http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4146845855/ |
| 22:01.09 | SpeedEvil | just a quick snap of a pile of soil as it was getting dark |
| 22:01.14 | SpeedEvil | not the best subject :) |
| 22:02.59 | Spida | does a lot of available light photography |
| 22:03.04 | Spida | like http://www.spida.net/pictures/Feuerwerk/2008/Duesseldorf-Rheinkirmes/.thumbs/Rheinkirmes_0024.html |
| 22:03.33 | SpeedEvil | yes - it's not going to do that really :) |
| 22:03.50 | Spida | so anything below superzooms is... toy-level for me |
| 22:04.06 | SpeedEvil | There is toy. |
| 22:04.25 | SpeedEvil | And there is 'do you carry your 'proper' camera around all the tie. |
| 22:04.40 | Spida | no |
| 22:04.49 | Spida | yes, I know THAT problem. |
| 22:04.50 | SpeedEvil | If you do, then it's pretty irrelevant, as you will never get that sort of quality in a cellphone |
| 22:05.41 | SpeedEvil | Though in some ways the sensors are getting better |
| 22:05.49 | SpeedEvil | lower noise, wider dynamic range, ... |
| 22:05.59 | SpeedEvil | still very constrained by the tiny, tiny lens. |
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| 22:44.59 | cmw | SpeedEvil: i was considering swapping my sony p for the n900. The advantage of the P is that it can do cdma/gsm which is nice |
| 22:45.45 | MonMotha | I am hoping that Android gets ported to the HTC TouchPro2 |
| 22:45.52 | MonMotha | there's an effort to do it |
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