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| 03:38.13 | landley | SpeedEvil: alas, a dell not a thinkpad. |
| 03:39.13 | landley | is trying to figure out where the arm/boot/compressed/misc.c code is getting the variable "crc" from. |
| 03:39.13 | landley | As far as I can tell: nowhere. |
| 03:48.15 | roxfan | lib/inflate.c ? |
| 03:49.05 | landley | roxfan: possibly. Except there's that bit about not allowing any global data. |
| 03:49.21 | roxfan | static ulg crc; /* initialized in makecrc() so it'll reside in bss */ |
| 03:49.26 | landley | You have a point. |
| 03:52.09 | landley | No idea why crc32 is an unsigned long, but oh well. |
| 03:52.53 | roxfan | well, better than a signed int |
| 03:53.18 | landley | True. |
| 03:53.33 | Mirell | pokes landley |
| 03:58.58 | landley | acknowledges the poking. |
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| 06:04.19 | davidc__ | so who was it that was recommending Altium Designer? |
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| 06:48.49 | landley | There are times I want to punch Ulrich Drepper in the face. |
| 06:48.50 | landley | http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-devel-list/2007-March/msg00666.html |
| 06:49.05 | landley | I'm guessing the fix is #undef _FORTIFY_SOURCE |
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| 14:32.36 | kergoth | morning |
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| 14:38.19 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 14:53.10 | prpplague | kergoth: morning |
| 14:53.23 | prpplague | FAIL - http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/17/insurgents-hack-drones/ |
| 14:55.44 | florian | heh |
| 14:55.50 | florian | *FAIL* |
| 14:56.37 | kergoth | that's just pathetic |
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| 15:04.53 | prpplague | what kind of dumbass wouldn't put in atleast some XOR or rot13 encryption? |
| 15:09.08 | prpplague | now there is something you don't see every day..... santa parachuting out of a V-22 osprey |
| 15:17.44 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: the drone thing seems unlikely |
| 15:17.49 | SpeedEvil1 | And getting chopped into _teeny_ bits |
| 15:18.14 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ? |
| 15:18.21 | CosmicPenguin | Are they satellite based? |
| 15:18.28 | CosmicPenguin | Aren't, even... |
| 15:18.31 | SpeedEvil1 | IIRC they were using commercial satellites for the video uplinks |
| 15:18.35 | SpeedEvil1 | so they were snoopable |
| 15:18.40 | SpeedEvil1 | at one point at least |
| 15:18.48 | CosmicPenguin | they were using commercial satellites? |
| 15:18.51 | CosmicPenguin | wow - fail |
| 15:18.51 | prpplague | yea |
| 15:19.40 | CosmicPenguin | psss - hey airforce - you guys own the rockets |
| 15:21.33 | prpplague | kergoth: hmm, getting a different md5 on a source file from sources.openembedded.org |
| 15:21.51 | prpplague | kergoth: eject-2.1.5.tar.gz |
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| 15:25.23 | Mirell | Yay, I has the sick now. |
| 15:25.36 | prpplague | Mirell: doh |
| 15:25.46 | kergoth | prpplague: check the contents, could be upstream changed it in place (grr) |
| 15:28.10 | prpplague | kergoth: the sources.openembedded.org site have matching md5 info for the files? |
| 15:28.46 | kergoth | what would be the point? it's just a mirror |
| 15:28.59 | kergoth | see if the actual upstream tarball has that md5 or another |
| 15:30.12 | prpplague | yea the reason its on the mirror is the upstream disappeared |
| 15:30.34 | prpplague | retests |
| 15:32.47 | kergoth | ah |
| 15:32.58 | kergoth | odd |
| 15:33.54 | prpplague | kergoth: nm, my bad, i had the checksum info for .tar.gz and i was pulling bz2 |
| 15:34.20 | Mirell | When did getting sick used to be fun? |
| 15:34.22 | Mirell | Middle school? |
| 15:35.31 | prpplague | kergoth: guess i didn't have enough coffee this morning |
| 15:35.57 | kergoth | ahh, hehe |
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| 16:30.42 | pingbat | helloo |
| 16:31.39 | pingbat | what's a good way of determining clock speed a chip is running at? |
| 16:32.06 | SpeedEvil | Read the datasheet, work out where the clock out pin is, put a scope on it |
| 16:32.21 | SpeedEvil | If it doesn't have a clock out pin, it gets lots harder |
| 16:34.54 | pingbat | doesn't seem to have one |
| 16:35.28 | pingbat | i'm messing around with the DAC but it's not very well documented. |
| 16:36.47 | pingbat | whenever i hit a statement that isn't DACR = val; the period of the DAC gets 200ns added on |
| 16:36.59 | pingbat | which seems like a lot |
| 16:38.08 | SpeedEvil | what sort of processor is this |
| 16:38.42 | SpeedEvil | generally instruction timing on all but the most simple processors is hard to work out |
| 16:39.01 | SpeedEvil | For example for the PIC, most instructions are one cycle, apart from the handful that are two |
| 16:39.31 | SpeedEvil | For x86, predicting the exact timing depends on several weeks study, and a blood sacrifice. |
| 16:41.07 | pingbat | this is ARM7tdmi |
| 16:41.10 | pingbat | -s |
| 16:42.57 | pingbat | but i guess without going into the assembler code it's hard to tell. |
| 16:44.37 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 16:44.42 | SpeedEvil | External RAM? |
| 16:53.08 | pingbat | yup |
| 16:53.26 | pingbat | but does the code execute from external ram? |
| 16:54.31 | pingbat | i would have thought that the values are stored in registers before being assigned alternately to the DACR register |
| 16:54.54 | pingbat | but probably am completely wrong |
| 17:02.38 | pingbat | sorted |
| 17:09.04 | pingbat | could it be that the DACR register only receives new values on an edge from it's driving clock and when you try to write to it before that pulse the core just hangs and waits for the DACR to accept a new value? |
| 17:12.33 | *** join/#edev SpeedEvil1 (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 17:14.19 | SpeedEvil1 | read the datasheet again - sometimes it does. |
| 17:14.25 | SpeedEvil1 | caches enormously complicate this |
| 17:17.11 | pingbat | the DAC section is enormously vague |
| 17:17.28 | pingbat | After the selected settling time after this field is written with a0 new VALUE |
| 17:17.55 | pingbat | the voltage is da da da |
| 17:18.03 | SpeedEvil1 | link? |
| 17:18.28 | pingbat | http://www.nxp.com/documents/user_manual/UM10237.pdf |
| 17:20.00 | pingbat | it's pretty confusing, switching to a a 12MHz clock from a 4MHz clock for the DAC only halves the period between outputs |
| 17:20.34 | pingbat | buy kicking the CPU freq up to 72MHz from 56MHz also increases the speed |
| 17:21.33 | pingbat | but my fast scope is gone now until tomorrow |
| 17:21.58 | SpeedEvil1 | you understand what the settling time - and how it's found out? |
| 17:22.46 | pingbat | the settling time is given as 1us min |
| 17:22.57 | pingbat | in fast high current mode |
| 17:23.07 | SpeedEvil1 | you've looked at the peripheral clock selection? |
| 17:23.30 | SpeedEvil1 | page 58/9 |
| 17:23.30 | pingbat | yup, boosted the peripheral clock |
| 17:23.37 | pingbat | well, set it to a faster clock |
| 17:23.58 | pingbat | and i understand that that means there is no guarantee it will settle in time |
| 17:24.50 | pingbat | but why would boosting the cpu freq to 72 from 56 MHz speed up the DAC output |
| 17:25.16 | pingbat | since the main oscillator clock (the one i'm using as the DAC source) is 12MHz |
| 17:25.58 | pingbat | unless it has something to do with the actual timing of the logic in the DAC |
| 17:26.36 | pingbat | or that the values aren't being written to DACR quickly enough |
| 17:27.10 | SpeedEvil1 | does it change the CCLK speed? |
| 17:27.39 | pingbat | the CCLK is the cpu speed no? |
| 17:27.53 | SpeedEvil1 | the peripheral clock comes from the CCLK |
| 17:27.59 | SpeedEvil1 | I've not read through all of it |
| 17:28.17 | SpeedEvil1 | maybe |
| 17:28.21 | SpeedEvil1 | eats. |
| 17:28.43 | pingbat | the peripheral clock is set to either the internal oscillator, the main oscillator or the rtc |
| 17:30.44 | pingbat | p59 |
| 17:31.31 | pingbat | ah, may have been confusing the pll source control bits and the peripheral clock |
| 17:32.36 | pingbat | nope |
| 17:32.57 | pingbat | the main oscillator is the 12MHz source to the DAC |
| 17:35.19 | pingbat | in fact yes |
| 17:35.20 | pingbat | i was |
| 17:35.24 | pingbat | dammit |
| 17:36.15 | pingbat | ok, so the peripheral clock sources are in fact CCLK, CCLK/2 ... |
| 17:36.32 | pingbat | ok, I get it now |
| 17:37.25 | SpeedEvil1 | ah - ok |
| 17:37.28 | SpeedEvil1 | :) |
| 17:38.09 | pingbat | thanks |
| 17:38.24 | pingbat | it's like a religion |
| 17:38.31 | pingbat | all the answers are in the manual |
| 17:38.36 | SpeedEvil1 | Unless htey're not |
| 17:38.37 | pingbat | you just need to look hard enough |
| 17:38.38 | SpeedEvil1 | :/ |
| 17:38.43 | pingbat | lol |
| 17:39.28 | SpeedEvil1 | generally read all of the DAC - say - section, then read all of the sections referred to in there, and so on, and read all the documentation of the specific pin you're interested in. |
| 17:39.35 | SpeedEvil1 | or just read it front to back :/ |
| 17:39.41 | SpeedEvil1 | look for errata first |
| 17:40.30 | pingbat | still don't know why the output period is 200ns |
| 17:40.45 | pingbat | if the source clock is indeed 72MHz |
| 17:41.30 | pingbat | but it can't not be |
| 17:41.53 | SpeedEvil1 | how are you measuring? |
| 17:42.01 | pingbat | oscilloscope |
| 17:42.44 | pingbat | oh, the cclk has to be 72 since the PLL has to have a value of over 275MHz |
| 17:42.49 | pingbat | and the divider is 4 |
| 17:43.00 | pingbat | measuring the DAC with a scope |
| 17:43.16 | pingbat | also, can't find a cclk pin |
| 17:43.33 | pingbat | at least not one i can access |
| 17:44.24 | pingbat | the source is 72MHz and the DAC is running at 5MHz |
| 17:44.43 | pingbat | there is no further documentation on offer |
| 17:44.46 | pingbat | sad times |
| 17:48.26 | pingbat | the errata sheet provided for the LPC2478 is called "Errate sheet LPC2487" |
| 17:48.29 | pingbat | spectacular |
| 17:48.56 | SpeedEvil1 | lol |
| 17:49.54 | pingbat | oh well, guess 5MHz is pretty good |
| 17:51.06 | pingbat | where can i get a decent cheap scope? |
| 17:51.13 | SpeedEvil1 | ebay! |
| 17:52.33 | pingbat | and what's a sensible bandwidth? |
| 17:52.49 | pingbat | 200MHz? |
| 17:52.54 | pingbat | 1GHz? |
| 17:53.14 | pingbat | i'll be working with 100MHz chips soon |
| 17:55.30 | SpeedEvil | Well... |
| 17:55.49 | SpeedEvil | It's a horribly, horribly involved area. |
| 17:56.07 | SpeedEvil | Digital scopes can fundamentally mislead in many ways. |
| 17:56.37 | SpeedEvil | But they - at least the non-entry-level ones - offer functionality that analog scopes simply can't. |
| 17:56.41 | pingbat | but they can capture |
| 17:57.00 | SpeedEvil | capturing, slow timebases, pretrigger capture |
| 17:57.25 | SpeedEvil | Then you have maths/fft/... |
| 17:57.27 | pingbat | they're horribly expensive |
| 17:58.14 | SpeedEvil | I have one of these. |
| 17:58.18 | SpeedEvil | http://www.owon.com.cn/eng/pdsSeries.asp |
| 17:58.35 | pingbat | bandwidth? |
| 17:58.42 | SpeedEvil | the 60M one |
| 17:59.05 | SpeedEvil | My major complaint is actually the LCD |
| 17:59.58 | prpplague | Mirell: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8da_1247177790 |
| 18:00.09 | prpplague | Mirell: history of how my wife's family came to barbados |
| 18:00.13 | pingbat | do you think 60M is enough |
| 18:00.21 | pingbat | or do you find it to be enough |
| 18:00.28 | SpeedEvil | It really depends. |
| 18:00.29 | CosmicPenguin | I love how I have to do all the work for CES, but I don't get to go... :( |
| 18:00.44 | SpeedEvil | For essentially all microcontroller stuff with internal busses - yes. |
| 18:00.58 | SpeedEvil | As all of that will be under 60MHz - mostly under 10 even. |
| 18:02.06 | SpeedEvil | power supply problems, and most diagnostics of that sort are going to be under 60MHz for a few years yet too. |
| 18:02.14 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 18:02.35 | SpeedEvil | If you want to go into high-speed busses - you're going to need lots more, and probably more flexible triggering. |
| 18:03.01 | SpeedEvil | But then - I'd question how much meaningful stuff you can do with 2 channels in that case. |
| 18:03.21 | pingbat | at that point you'll probably want a logic analyser |
| 18:03.27 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 18:03.46 | SpeedEvil | It's all a question of budget. |
| 18:04.04 | SpeedEvil | I'd have liked a tek scope at perhaps 5* the budget. |
| 18:04.17 | pingbat | i see the 60MHz scope actually samples at 250MS/s |
| 18:04.23 | pingbat | that's pretty good |
| 18:05.25 | SpeedEvil | I've found it pretty usable. |
| 18:06.04 | pingbat | is the display quite ghosty |
| 18:06.26 | SpeedEvil | did you ever have a CSTN laptop/ |
| 18:06.42 | pingbat | never had a cstn laptop |
| 18:06.57 | pingbat | btu i STN display in general are crappy |
| 18:07.12 | pingbat | i believe |
| 18:07.18 | SpeedEvil | yes, it's not great. |
| 18:07.28 | SpeedEvil | especially at my ambient temp |
| 18:07.30 | SpeedEvil | ATM |
| 18:10.36 | pingbat | it's snowing here :-( |
| 18:10.36 | SpeedEvil | not here. |
| 18:10.40 | SpeedEvil | http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4192044615/ - earlier today |
| 18:10.56 | SpeedEvil | 5cm in scotland |
| 18:12.50 | pingbat | oo |
| 18:13.17 | pingbat | didn't settle earlier here but i think there is some on the ground now |
| 18:13.26 | pingbat | in Durham |
| 18:14.43 | pingbat | hmm, i remember reading about a new TI DAC that was going to make oscilloscopes cheap for everyone |
| 18:14.59 | pingbat | but then again it was their marketing spiel |
| 18:15.18 | SpeedEvil | The ADC is unfortunaltey in many ways not hte hard part |
| 18:15.31 | pingbat | ? |
| 18:15.35 | SpeedEvil | the hard part is how the hell do you deal with a large slice of a gigabyte a second of data. |
| 18:15.44 | pingbat | true |
| 18:15.54 | pingbat | how do they do that? |
| 18:16.04 | SpeedEvil | When the simple way to process it would involve several tens of thousands of floating point operations per sample. |
| 18:16.13 | pingbat | the capture depth is quite shallow though isn't it |
| 18:16.13 | SpeedEvil | large FPGAs - generally |
| 18:16.36 | SpeedEvil | it's regrettably more complex than capture depth |
| 18:17.01 | pingbat | for realz? |
| 18:17.41 | pingbat | how is it usually stored? |
| 18:18.12 | pingbat | compressed like an mp3? |
| 18:18.13 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:18.25 | SpeedEvil | sorry - afk |
| 18:21.55 | prpplague | there are a number of great PC based logic analyzers and oscopes |
| 18:23.20 | pingbat | who make god ones? |
| 18:23.35 | pingbat | PicoScope seem way overpriced |
| 18:28.40 | prpplague | pingbat: i use the intronix logicport |
| 18:28.48 | SpeedEvil | The problem again arises that the ADC isn't the hard bit. |
| 18:28.58 | SpeedEvil | Nor are the controls and screen |
| 18:29.22 | SpeedEvil | the rest of the scope - the guts - are the triggering, and averaging, and ... |
| 18:29.57 | SpeedEvil | And those are the bits you can do very cheap on, or quite expensive - and its not always clear on buying a PC scope what sort of bits are in it. |
| 18:30.35 | SpeedEvil | For example, does it just do sampling, and then trigger, and then transfer the signal buffer to the PC at a few hundred times a second maximum |
| 18:31.08 | SpeedEvil | this might show you .01% of the actual signal at 50MHz, with the rest of the signal not being transferred or contributing to the waveform |
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| 19:39.38 | pingbat | damn hail |
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| 20:43.33 | Josh1 | hi, was wondering if anyone could recommend a wireless N chipset, ive tried ralink2870 and realtek 8192, and have found they to be quite buggy |
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| 22:11.40 | davidc__ | MonMotha: it was you that was telling me about altium, right? |
| 22:14.46 | MonMotha | davidc__: yes |
| 22:15.04 | davidc__ | MonMotha: so; I'm leaning pretty heavily towards buying it |
| 22:15.16 | davidc__ | MonMotha: Any big gotchas / irritants that I should know about? |
| 22:15.41 | davidc__ | MonMotha: I've got the demo running; its impressively powerful |
| 22:17.11 | MonMotha | davidc__: it does occasionally crash on huge/insanely complicated designs, but it generally recovers enough to let you at least save/restart. OrCAD and PADS crash, too, but they don't let you save :) |
| 22:17.33 | davidc__ | MonMotha: yeah, I saw that in action [found a sequence of steps that crashes the program reliably] |
| 22:17.41 | davidc__ | MonMotha: one thing - have you used the autorouter much? |
| 22:17.57 | MonMotha | davidc__: it's only OK. The interactive stuff is good, though |
| 22:18.21 | davidc__ | MonMotha: Its great compared to what I've used before ;) |
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| 22:18.40 | MonMotha | davidc__: ok :) |
| 22:19.09 | MonMotha | I find that I can more quickly get the board to "where I want it" by routing it interactively rather than cutting the autorouter loose on it and then cleaning up |
| 22:19.38 | davidc__ | MonMotha: I'm thinking I'd probably end up routing everything critical; then setting the autorouter loose on stuff thats "don't care / low speed" stuff |
| 22:21.22 | MonMotha | davidc__: that's one technique |
| 22:21.50 | davidc__ | MonMotha: oh; one other thing, hows the simulation / signal integrity tools? |
| 22:21.56 | davidc__ | are they accurate / worth using? |
| 22:22.41 | SpeedEvil | Depends how constrained you are. |
| 22:22.49 | SpeedEvil | 2 layer not very dense board - not much problem |
| 22:23.11 | SpeedEvil | 1 layer, or really needing another layer, and it gets harder |
| 22:23.38 | davidc__ | SpeedEvil: I think I wouldn't even bother with the autorouter until I hit 4 layers + |
| 22:23.47 | davidc__ | SpeedEvil: since autorouters make such a mess of power wiring |
| 22:23.47 | MonMotha | davidc__: I've not actually used them. I never had enough models |
| 22:23.57 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 22:24.21 | davidc__ | SpeedEvil: the board I tested the autorouter on was a standard 4 layer stackup; split power, solid ground |
| 22:24.23 | SpeedEvil | I tend to like nuking the ground net, autorouting the top layer only. |
| 22:24.25 | davidc__ | and it worked pretty well |
| 22:24.35 | SpeedEvil | see if I can make it sane by moving parts |
| 22:25.01 | SpeedEvil | then route bottom, for nets that need it, and pour ground |
| 22:25.06 | davidc__ | SpeedEvil: you're an altium person as well? |
| 22:25.07 | SpeedEvil | but I've only done a couple of 2 layer |
| 22:25.09 | SpeedEvil | no, pcb |
| 22:25.25 | davidc__ | SpeedEvil: as in the open source one? |
| 22:25.26 | SpeedEvil | only done a couple of couple of hundred hole pcbs really |
| 22:25.29 | SpeedEvil | ys |
| 22:25.47 | davidc__ | yeah, I evaluated that too; Its quite good comparatively, and I wish I could use open source stuff |
| 22:26.04 | davidc__ | but in terms of overall integration + features, Altium is going to make me way more productive |
| 22:26.07 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 22:28.51 | davidc__ | oh; MonMotha - one more question. How do you add parts to a schematic? I mean; I haven't found a fast way to add an 0402 with the default libs. My path right now is "Libraries tab, Misc Components, search Res1, [tab] modify footprint value and comment, place |
| 22:28.54 | davidc__ | then copy around the board |
| 22:29.06 | davidc__ | [and renumber duplicate refdes'es when done] |
| 22:29.42 | MonMotha | hotkey is "p p", then while you have the dialog up, you can select the footprint from the dropdown if you wish |
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| 22:30.38 | MonMotha | other option is to just place things graphically as needed (default designator "R?"), do "Annotate Schematic" from tools to number things, then set footprints "en masse" from tools->footprint manager |
| 22:30.46 | MonMotha | I generally do some combination |
| 22:30.50 | davidc__ | gotcha. |
| 22:41.47 | Spida | hat does altium cost? |
| 22:41.49 | Spida | +w |
| 22:41.59 | MonMotha | price on the website is $3995 |
| 22:42.04 | Spida | wow. |
| 22:42.32 | Spida | not possible for hobbyist/low volume commercial |
| 22:42.57 | davidc__ | Spida: I'm low volume commercial, its possible. |
| 22:43.05 | MonMotha | compared to the "standard" commercial solution of OrCAD+PADS, it's an absolute steal |
| 22:43.19 | MonMotha | heck, even the full pro/commercial license to EagleCAD is $900 |
| 22:43.29 | davidc__ | Spida: I estimate I'll be at least twice as productive in this as I will in eagle |
| 22:43.34 | MonMotha | and Eagle...sucks |
| 22:43.45 | Spida | davidc__: your definition of low-volume differs from mine... |
| 22:44.20 | davidc__ | Spida: I do contract design :P, perhaps we're different volumes |
| 22:44.25 | Spida | I don't even do 2k in sales, let alone winnings... |
| 22:44.36 | Spida | or 1k... |
| 22:44.37 | davidc__ | ah, ok, different definition |
| 22:44.48 | MonMotha | I'm not even sure I'd call that "commercial" |
| 22:44.48 | Spida | "VERY low vloume"... |
| 22:44.49 | davidc__ | Yeah, Eagle / GEDA targets your market |
| 22:45.18 | Spida | MonMotha: thats why I wrote hobyist before it *g* |
| 22:45.40 | davidc__ | heh |
| 22:45.43 | Spida | I have a standard license of eagle (without autorouter) |
| 22:45.48 | Spida | and it sucks |
| 22:45.53 | Spida | but geda sucks more |
| 22:46.09 | davidc__ | Spida: I own an eagle standard license as well |
| 22:46.09 | Spida | (at least it did when I tried it more than one year ago) |
| 22:46.26 | davidc__ | I've done 4 layer boards in it; and 6 layer boards with an employers eagle pro |
| 22:46.36 | davidc__ | It truely does suck. |
| 22:47.16 | Spida | the freeware license would be enough for what I do, but I ocassionally sell stuff, so... |
| 22:47.23 | Spida | http://www.spida.net/tmp/platinen/remoe-top.png http://www.spida.net/tmp/platinen/remoe-bottom.png |
| 22:47.42 | Spida | biggest thing I have done yet... 100*50mm, 2layers |
| 22:47.52 | davidc__ | nice design |
| 22:47.59 | davidc__ | you should talk to sparkfun or someone about carrying it |
| 22:48.19 | Spida | arm7 with ethernet, power over ethernet, usb2host, usb2device, some flash, display |
| 22:48.32 | Spida | davidc__: no. should I? |
| 22:48.50 | davidc__ | Spida: erm, was that sarcasm? :P |
| 22:49.11 | Spida | :P |
| 22:49.41 | Spida | I started with electronics about two years ago, so I am pretty much a beginner... |
| 22:50.45 | davidc__ | well; the design looks fairly solid, enough decoupling caps + etc |
| 22:50.51 | davidc__ | [from what I can see, that is] |
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| 22:52.25 | Spida | its layouted pretty much after the reference implementation in the datasheets |
| 22:57.52 | MonMotha | Spida: what did you use to do those 3D renders |
| 22:57.52 | MonMotha | ? |
| 22:58.00 | Spida | eagle3d |
| 22:58.23 | sorphin | waves at monmotha |
| 22:58.24 | MonMotha | hum, I didn't know Eagle had a 3D component now |
| 22:58.27 | MonMotha | hello, sorphin |
| 22:58.29 | Spida | its an ulp-script vor eagle that produces input for the povray-raytracer |
| 22:58.56 | MonMotha | I see |
| 22:59.05 | Spida | MonMotha: its NOT a 3d component of eagle, its an independently written user language program |
| 22:59.10 | MonMotha | gotcha |
| 22:59.31 | MonMotha | Altium Designer has a built-in 3D mode that has some nifty features, but finding enough 3D models to make it work well can be a pain |
| 23:00.19 | Spida | I wrote some of the 3d components myself. the original stuff renders to http://www.spida.net/tmp/platinen/remoe-e3dvanilla-top.png http://www.spida.net/tmp/platinen/remoe-e3dvanilla-bottom.png |
| 23:01.52 | MonMotha | I see |
| 23:01.55 | MonMotha | so you did provide a number of models |
| 23:03.25 | Spida | yes |
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| 23:28.12 | pingbat | is orcad much good? |
| 23:29.17 | pingbat | my department switched from it to geda recently |
| 23:29.41 | Spida | that sound like geda was finally usable... |
| 23:29.56 | pingbat | ? |
| 23:29.59 | MonMotha | pingbat: OrCAD was good...in 1996 |
| 23:30.04 | pingbat | lol |
| 23:30.07 | MonMotha | it hasn't really been updated since then |
| 23:30.11 | pingbat | it seems dated |
| 23:30.15 | MonMotha | yes |
| 23:30.17 | pingbat | not used it though |
| 23:30.21 | pingbat | just peeked |
| 23:30.22 | MonMotha | CDS considers it EOL, IIRC |
| 23:30.28 | MonMotha | they want everybody to use Allegro |
| 23:30.47 | MonMotha | it's also like $9000 |
| 23:30.51 | pingbat | CDS? |
| 23:30.55 | MonMotha | Cadence Design Systems |
| 23:31.02 | pingbat | i think the reason they switched was the licencing cost |
| 23:31.30 | MonMotha | the "industry standard" workflow seems to be OrCAD for schematic and PADS for layout |
| 23:31.39 | MonMotha | IIRC, both of those together will run you about $25-40k |
| 23:33.46 | pingbat | nice |
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| 23:34.18 | pingbat | the cadence website is a maze |
| 23:36.29 | pingbat | what do people on here use? |
| 23:36.44 | MonMotha | usually gEDA, Eagle, or, recently, Altium Designer |
| 23:37.06 | pingbat | is there a free version of altium? |
| 23:38.17 | pingbat | or are people on here getting it for business |
| 23:38.34 | MonMotha | there's a 30 day trial |
| 23:38.40 | MonMotha | but no, it is definitely not free |
| 23:38.48 | pingbat | lol |
| 23:38.52 | MonMotha | it's one of the cheapest commercial options, though |
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| 23:40.09 | pingbat | i've found that i need to use lots tricks with pcb |
| 23:40.28 | MonMotha | the program "pcb"? |
| 23:40.31 | pingbat | manually editing netlists and so on |
| 23:40.33 | MonMotha | it's pretty bare bones |
| 23:40.37 | pingbat | yup |
| 23:40.38 | MonMotha | works, though |
| 23:45.51 | pingbat | what about kicad |
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