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| 00:43.30 | Madsy | _ABC: You're welcome. |
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| 15:24.15 | *** mode/#edev [+o GPSFan] by ChanServ |
| 15:45.12 | prpplague | happy boxing day |
| 15:49.25 | GPSFan | prpplague: morning... same to you... |
| 15:49.36 | prpplague | what's cookin today? |
| 15:49.47 | prpplague | trying to pull everything together to finish up this project |
| 15:50.10 | GPSFan | cookin... now there's an interesting thought... it's +7F here so not much ;>) |
| 15:51.28 | prpplague | hehe |
| 15:51.40 | prpplague | we had our first white xmas in 80 years |
| 15:52.47 | GPSFan | oh my!! snow in Texas... |
| 15:52.56 | GPSFan | looks outside for flying pigs |
| 15:56.11 | prpplague | man it is hard getting going again after 3 days off |
| 15:57.00 | prpplague | GPSFan: http://imagebin.ca/view/0_TfJCyQ.html |
| 15:57.40 | GPSFan | prpplague: that your wife?? looks cold! |
| 15:57.58 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea |
| 15:58.12 | prpplague | GPSFan: cold for us, it was about -1C |
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| 15:59.21 | GPSFan | we've warmed up all the way to +9F, no wind though, makes it bearable. |
| 15:59.52 | prpplague | GPSFan: ahh |
| 16:48.02 | prpplague | argh, i just hosed by oe build |
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| 17:19.38 | GPSFan | prpplague: do you know what happened to the apex web site? it's giving me a 404.. http://wiki.buici.com/wiki/Apex_Bootloader |
| 17:20.21 | prpplague | GPSFan: yea it is down permently, most of the core content i've added to the elinux.org wiki page and have a mirror of all the versions |
| 17:20.34 | prpplague | GPSFan: http://www.elinux.org/APEX_Bootloader iirc |
| 17:20.51 | GPSFan | prpplague: thanks, is there any development going on? |
| 17:21.35 | prpplague | GPSFan: none at the momment, there is a big discussion going on right now about which "simple" bootloader shoot be getting all the dev energies |
| 17:22.08 | prpplague | GPSFan: http://www.elinux.org/CELF_Project_Proposal/Refactor_the_Qi_lightweight_bootloader |
| 17:22.22 | prpplague | GPSFan: CELF seems to want to push forward with Qi |
| 17:22.31 | GPSFan | ah, simple as in u-bloat or maybe even blob, or how about ..... |
| 17:22.32 | prpplague | GPSFan: and alot of other folks are pressing for u-bootV2 |
| 17:22.48 | prpplague | GPSFan: simple more like blob |
| 17:23.09 | GPSFan | hmmm, |
| 17:23.16 | prpplague | GPSFan: most of the SoC's now have internal sram, but most are limited to 32k or 64k so they are are wanting something that fits in that space |
| 17:23.33 | prpplague | GPSFan: of course u-boot v1 can't fit there |
| 17:23.47 | prpplague | GPSFan: so it is back to looking at "simple" bootloaders |
| 17:24.12 | GPSFan | well, maybe there is some light at the end of that tunnel then. |
| 17:24.21 | prpplague | GPSFan: any idea how to turn the mouse pointer off in Xorg? |
| 17:24.22 | prpplague | GPSFan: indeed |
| 17:24.35 | prpplague | GPSFan: i just don't care for the structure of Qi |
| 17:24.46 | prpplague | GPSFan: or u-boot v2 for that matter |
| 17:25.27 | prpplague | GPSFan: Qi and U-boot v2 seem to be written from the aspect of a linux kernel devr , and not really from the aspect of someone who is bringing up hardware |
| 17:25.28 | GPSFan | and with SOC wanting to be "brick proof" having a simple bootloader that works well with some form of internal rom or flash is a benefit. |
| 17:25.40 | GPSFan | no clue about mouse pointers in Xorg.. |
| 17:25.58 | wmat | prpplague: CELF doesn't necessarily want to push forward with Qi; that's just one of many proposals put forth for CELF funding in 2010 |
| 17:26.21 | prpplague | GPSFan: not only that, but the SoC's generally have a builtin "copy" method that copies a block of code from nand flash into the internal sram, that copy method is limited to the size of the sram |
| 17:26.59 | prpplague | wmat: right, however i got the impression that TimB was pushing it pretty hard on the mailing list |
| 17:27.02 | GPSFan | prpplague: indeed executing code from beyond the end of SRAM can be somewhat unsatisfying. |
| 17:27.26 | wmat | prpplague: not really |
| 17:27.46 | prpplague | wmat: ahh ok, that was just my impression, but what do i know..... hehe |
| 17:29.08 | prpplague | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:29.22 | prpplague | and it is a snap to port to something new |
| 17:30.07 | wmat | wow, 27 project proposals to CELF |
| 17:31.42 | prpplague | i considered getting into the discussion about the Qi |
| 17:31.51 | GPSFan | prpplague: but there wasn't much encouragement for integrating those ports into the mainline code. ie. http://git.mnementh.co.uk/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=apex.git;a=commit;h=97af1cba6bd2e45b852d10f932db3c64481fcbae has been done since may 2008 and never made it in. |
| 17:32.15 | prpplague | looks |
| 17:32.15 | SpeedEvil | I hadn't realised the issues with uboot. though I had a device using it - gta01 |
| 17:33.03 | GPSFan | I would have liked to push that port into the z2 but without it being in the main apex codebase I succumed to the u-boot kool-aid. |
| 17:33.04 | prpplague | GPSFan: right, the problem was the marc wasn't really interested in doing it full time, he's basically washed his hands of it |
| 17:33.24 | GPSFan | prpplague: unfortunate. |
| 17:33.25 | prpplague | GPSFan: setting up a repo wouldn;t be hard, probably could do it over on linuxtogo |
| 17:33.49 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: sorry i didn't follow your statement |
| 17:35.58 | SpeedEvil | SOrry |
| 17:36.13 | SpeedEvil | in teh context of the discussion around qi/uboot on the above mailing list |
| 17:37.53 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: right, just wasn't sure what you were saying about uboot |
| 17:38.15 | prpplague | GPSFan: i sent an email to marc to see if he'll set up a redirect the wiki pages |
| 17:39.17 | GPSFan | prpplague: that would be cool, there are many links pointing to that wiki and your re-hosting of it should be acknowledged, |
| 17:52.58 | prpplague | i know there is a flag on kdrive , but i can't seem to find a similar option on Xorg |
| 18:03.59 | solar | prpplague: for tslib? |
| 18:04.34 | prpplague | solar: Xorg+tslib , but i think the flag would be in the x server somewhere |
| 18:04.58 | prpplague | solar: greetings btw |
| 18:05.08 | prpplague | solar: what's cookin on your end of the planet? |
| 18:06.54 | solar | prpplague: went camping down in Big Sur for xmas-eve and the day of. |
| 18:07.16 | solar | I got sunburt a little and my legs feel like jello. Was great |
| 18:07.30 | prpplague | doh |
| 18:07.33 | prpplague | snowed here |
| 18:07.36 | solar | prpplague: you gotta patch in tslib/xcalibrate support |
| 18:07.40 | prpplague | first white xmas in 80 years |
| 18:07.47 | solar | I can dig up both patches for ya |
| 18:07.59 | prpplague | solar: to turn the mouse pointer off in Xorg? |
| 18:07.59 | solar | yeah snow in texas.. Just shaking my head |
| 18:08.10 | solar | that is another patch iirc. |
| 18:08.27 | prpplague | jeeze |
| 18:08.37 | solar | gpe had some tips on it. It's more of making it a 1x1 pixel tansparent image or some such |
| 18:08.40 | prpplague | wonders why linux userland keeps re-inventing the wheel |
| 18:09.07 | prpplague | thats just insane |
| 18:09.21 | solar | there may be a better way. But that is what I know of |
| 18:10.46 | solar | did you want me to dig up the tslib/xcalibrate stuff? Or you just after the mouse pointer stuff? |
| 18:11.07 | prpplague | naw, everything is working with the exception of turning the pointer off |
| 18:11.17 | prpplague | i'll leave it as it is for now |
| 18:11.46 | prpplague | solar: thanks though |
| 18:12.23 | prpplague | just surprised that it isn't a standard option, after all, we've had touchscreens in use for over 10 years now |
| 18:13.42 | prpplague | doesn't understand why linux userland is always in a state of "redevelopment and reinvention" |
| 18:15.05 | solar | so guys can get paid to work on free stuff. If 1-2 gens back will never work :p |
| 18:16.29 | prpplague | thinks linux userland is basically crap |
| 18:16.43 | solar | oh there seems to be a 'void' input driver for xorg for this |
| 18:17.53 | prpplague | solar: eh? |
| 18:18.39 | prpplague | solar: got a url with some info? |
| 18:18.42 | solar | prpplague: ignore that it's an nvidia forums. http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=75244 |
| 18:18.56 | prpplague | looks |
| 18:19.53 | prpplague | solar: right that is if you don't have any mouse input at all |
| 18:20.19 | Mirell | My external appearance is down five percent! |
| 18:20.21 | Mirell | I need to be cleaned! |
| 18:20.36 | solar | then the transperent mouse cursor seems ideal for what you want. |
| 18:23.03 | prpplague | yea, sounds so |
| 18:23.19 | prpplague | just don't understand why that feature has been dropped |
| 18:55.01 | prpplague | doing oe builds is just painfully slow |
| 18:59.50 | solar | they probably have an env var equiv to gentoo's MAKEOPTS where you should be able to change the -j N flags for make tasks |
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| 19:50.20 | madsy | prpplague: Because people tend to fall into the trap and think that "Linux" is an OS. They forget that different distros have different goals. |
| 19:51.01 | madsy | So people don't reinvent. They just think that the current solution fit their needs. |
| 19:51.31 | madsy | Their needs or their solution might suck, but that's another story ;-) |
| 19:51.51 | madsy | does not fit their needs* |
| 19:53.40 | madsy | The variety of distros and APIs is a strength, not a disadvantage, in my opinion. |
| 19:56.27 | madsy | What really bugs me is sucky documentation. For programmers and end-users. |
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| 21:05.18 | _ABC | Hi, I am working on an AT91SAM. I know that to enable a pin, the PIO_PER (Enable Register) must be written to. However, the device offers several PIO controllers (PIOA~PIOE). Now, how do I enable a specific pin in a specific PIO controller? |
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| 21:17.23 | prpplague | madsy: i can see your point, however my problem is that many applications never reach a stable release, its always in a state of "redesign" or "next generation" |
| 21:17.54 | prpplague | madsy: i don't understand why the project doesn't have a 99.44% stable release and _then_ move on to next gen |
| 21:21.00 | madsy | prpplague: Uh.. you mean that authors rewrite their software from scratch before being out of beta? :-) |
| 21:21.17 | madsy | That might be. I've never personally paid attention to that. |
| 21:21.27 | prpplague | madsy: yea authors/projects |
| 21:21.44 | madsy | I thought you refered to say OSS vs ALSA vs PulseAudio |
| 21:21.44 | prpplague | madsy: a great example is all the gpe stuff |
| 21:21.56 | madsy | My mistake then. |
| 21:22.01 | prpplague | madsy: more like user apps and such |
| 21:23.16 | madsy | I wouldn't mind either way, if documentation wasn't as sucky as it currently is. |
| 21:23.34 | madsy | There are exceptions, but they are far between. |
| 21:24.20 | madsy | Seems like most projects assume that everyone and their grandmother is going to peek at the source code for hints on how to use it. |
| 21:25.18 | madsy | I'm guilty there myself, but my projects have no releases yet anyway. |
| 21:25.37 | madsy | I know I would write proper documentation before the first release. |
| 21:27.39 | madsy | Bleh.. I'm currently writing a Qt interface for my emulator. I feel hopeless while doing GUI programming. |
| 21:30.10 | prpplague | madsy: yea i'm not much on gui dev either |
| 21:30.28 | prpplague | i use glade to do some gtk stuff |
| 21:30.35 | prpplague | and fluid for some fltk stuff |
| 21:31.10 | madsy | No matter what API I use, I feel I have to subclass/extend everything :-P |
| 21:31.31 | madsy | My needs can't be *that* exotic. |
| 21:44.37 | prpplague | slaps oe around |
| 21:51.37 | prpplague | hmm, is there way to specify which version of a package you want to build on the command line of bitbake? |
| 21:52.18 | florian | hi prpplague |
| 21:52.25 | prpplague | florian: greetings |
| 21:53.56 | florian | prpplague: not really... usually you have a proper list in your distro configuration and if you need to override you set it in local.conf |
| 21:54.16 | prpplague | florian: ahh |
| 21:56.06 | prpplague | gives that a try |
| 21:57.00 | prpplague | grumbles at the nuances of using OE |
| 21:57.05 | florian | you need to take care using angstrom since it does not allow overriding some versions such as gtk+ and similar |
| 21:57.34 | prpplague | florian: yea, i need to change the kernel version |
| 21:59.12 | florian | prpplague: ah ok, for these you might have (or want to have) a preference in the machine config file |
| 21:59.34 | prpplague | florian: i'd settle for it just working |
| 22:00.32 | prpplague | florian: it's complaining that the preferred version of git is not available, but yet it has the .bb file |
| 22:02.33 | florian | prpplague: hrm nasty... but I have seen this before |
| 22:03.20 | prpplague | i have sooo much trouble trying to get OE to do what i want it to do |
| 22:03.28 | florian | iirc you need to set the whole version which sucks badly |
| 22:04.29 | florian | but for a test you can always tell bitbake to build one special bb file (-bb is the parameter) |
| 22:04.33 | florian | eh -b |
| 22:04.42 | florian | but |
| 22:04.56 | florian | this does not care about the dependencies |
| 22:05.49 | prpplague | tries again |
| 22:07.24 | ds2 | afternoon... how does the whitestuff digging? |
| 22:09.00 | *** join/#edev Omegamoon (n=egoe@demolitionman.xs4all.nl) |
| 22:09.58 | prpplague | ds2: amostly gone |
| 22:14.12 | ds2 | prpplague: any black ice forecasts? |
| 22:14.29 | prpplague | ds2: just for xmas eve night |
| 22:15.05 | ds2 | oh that's a nice treat |
| 22:16.36 | prpplague | yea first white xmas in 80 years |
| 22:19.33 | ds2 | btw, came a across a new in box diji for $30 |
| 22:20.38 | prpplague | dandy |
| 22:20.50 | prpplague | ds2: i think keapfrog is dropping the product |
| 22:22.27 | ds2 | Oh |
| 22:23.26 | prpplague | ds2: from what i understand the project was suppose to have their proprietary OS on it, but the contractor screwed up and they ended up giving the project to cozybits at the last minute to save the project |
| 22:23.48 | prpplague | ds2: they never intended it to have linux on it |
| 22:24.14 | prpplague | ds2: and their target market of tweens are buying stuff like nintendo DS stuff |
| 22:24.24 | ds2 | hmmm so that's the second linux toy to bite the dust that I know of |
| 22:24.35 | prpplague | oh it's alot more than that hehe |
| 22:25.16 | ds2 | I am sure there.. but this is the second one I watched... the juice box and now this |
| 22:26.35 | prpplague | yea, the main problem will all the devices that are dying are the fact that the hardware is closed, meaning that people can't add their own stuff to it |
| 22:26.43 | prpplague | but that didn't help the gamepark stuff |
| 22:27.31 | ds2 | *nod* |
| 22:28.42 | prpplague | ds2: found any work? |
| 22:31.35 | madsy | GPH dug their own grave when they didn't help the community with support and documentation. |
| 22:31.50 | madsy | And the fact that JTAG on the GP2X was broken by design. |
| 22:32.12 | ds2 | prpplague: tiny stuff with MSP430's |
| 22:32.27 | ds2 | and chipcons |
| 22:32.36 | prpplague | ds2: dandy |
| 22:32.52 | prpplague | looks to see home much of the pm stuff for omap3 is merger into 2.6.32 |
| 22:33.14 | ds2 | prpplague: TI's getting their money's worth with the ez430-RF2500 kits they gave away |
| 22:33.22 | madsy | I don't see a good reason for GPH to have any closed software on the GP2X at all. Not to mention the DRM. |
| 22:33.32 | prpplague | indeed |
| 22:33.59 | madsy | I hope Nokia has more success with their N900. |
| 22:34.09 | madsy | I would even pay good money for support. |
| 22:34.13 | ds2 | madsy: more? in what sense? |
| 22:34.41 | madsy | longevity |
| 22:35.01 | ds2 | madsy: But they have had pretty decent luck with the 770/N800/N810 line already |
| 22:36.37 | madsy | I didn't imply that this is the first time they used Linux. But I hope the phone is successful. |
| 22:36.51 | prpplague | ds2: TI didn;t contact you about the omap4 dev? |
| 22:37.50 | madsy | I like hacking ARM devices, but I wish I got a hold of a device from a manufactor which gives a damn about its customers :) |
| 22:38.06 | prpplague | madsy: indeed |
| 22:38.34 | ds2 | prpplague: they did... it is taking forever |
| 22:38.51 | prpplague | ds2: oh? |
| 22:39.17 | prpplague | ds2: i've just finished this contract and TI was still looking for some OMAP4 work |
| 22:39.32 | prpplague | ds2: what seems to be the hold up? |
| 22:40.24 | ds2 | prpplague: they are saying director level and up want more paperwork or justification |
| 22:40.38 | prpplague | hmm, oe seems to be completely ignoring my prefered kernel version |
| 22:40.46 | prpplague | ds2: ahh |
| 22:42.27 | prpplague | ds2: silly that they are wasting the time |
| 22:42.57 | prpplague | ds2: i figured they'd have been going full speed by now |
| 22:44.14 | ds2 | prpplague: that group seems to be always like that |
| 22:46.44 | ds2 | right now I just wish they would ship their chronos thing |
| 22:51.11 | prpplague | ds2: they doing corp2corp or something else? |
| 22:54.19 | ds2 | prpplague: who? |
| 22:54.38 | prpplague | ds2: TI |
| 22:54.50 | prpplague | ds2: for the omap4 work |
| 22:55.43 | ds2 | prpplague: they didn't say... the guy who got back to me was one of the technical contacts I used to talk to before |
| 22:55.58 | prpplague | ahh |
| 22:57.22 | ds2 | so not much on the other details besides the technical end |
| 22:57.50 | prpplague | i'd have expected most people aren't going to wait 2-3 months for TI decided what they want to do, by the time the make a decision, they are gonna have to see who is still available |
| 22:59.03 | ds2 | yep but the higher ups probally don't see it that way |
| 23:02.33 | prpplague | indeed |
| 23:16.07 | prpplague | hmm |
| 23:16.24 | prpplague | bitbake keeps trying to do a http, when it should be doing a git clone |
| 23:35.06 | *** part/#edev Omegamoon (n=egoe@demolitionman.xs4all.nl) |
| 23:38.58 | prpplague | hmm, anyone know if there is an easy way to tell a particular recipe not to use mirrors? |