| 00:07.06 | neutronscott | coffee and cigarettes! |
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| 14:36.32 | prpplague | Mirell: yea, recall is limited to 2010 prius, my aftermarket work stuff is for 2006-2009 prius |
| 14:38.14 | Mirell | Good man |
| 14:38.52 | prpplague | Mirell: really the recall is for nothing more than replace one of the Braking Control Unit or BCU |
| 14:39.05 | prpplague | picks one up off the desk and has a look |
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| 14:58.03 | Mirell | Oh, be all cool with, "I got a BCU sitting on me desk, ooooo" |
| 14:58.11 | Mirell | I WILL HAVE NONE OF THAT. |
| 14:58.14 | Mirell | Instead, coffee. |
| 14:58.18 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:58.22 | prpplague | grabs coffee |
| 14:59.02 | prpplague | Mirell: fairly unimpressive board, it's just two layers with all surface mounted large pitch components |
| 14:59.29 | Mirell | Ah |
| 14:59.36 | prpplague | Mirell: has a renasys microcontroller and looks to have a Hitachi CPU |
| 14:59.47 | Mirell | Always an SH.. |
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| 15:00.15 | Mirell | Time to mozy in to work.. |
| 15:00.28 | prpplague | Mirell: looks to have a couple LDO's for 12v down to 3.3v, can bus controller and a bunch of opto isolators |
| 15:00.47 | prpplague | Mirell: be that way then |
| 15:00.50 | prpplague | ........ |
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| 15:50.28 | Mirell | Sorry. |
| 15:50.38 | Mirell | I tend to like earning money. |
| 15:52.41 | Mirell | Despite my best efforts, it's Tuesday. |
| 16:33.10 | prpplague | Mirell: indeed |
| 16:33.28 | prpplague | Mirell: i hate the collections part of this business |
| 16:33.37 | prpplague | Mirell: totally stresses me out |
| 16:35.30 | Mirell | Hire a big black dude |
| 16:35.36 | Mirell | Dress him up in a white suit |
| 16:35.42 | Mirell | Print business cards |
| 16:35.57 | Mirell | "Herman and Associates: We always gets our moneys." |
| 16:37.58 | prpplague | as of friday i had $50k outstanding, i've managed to get around $20k commited to pay, but that still leaves $30k |
| 16:38.36 | prpplague | and on top of that my wife is naggin the @#$^@#$% out of me for letting it slide |
| 16:39.22 | T0mW | I just invoiced a customer, 5% 10 net 30, and they jumped on that 5%. |
| 16:39.38 | T0mW | now I can pay my property taxes. |
| 16:40.08 | prpplague | T0mW: 5% discount for paying under 10 days? |
| 16:40.14 | T0mW | yes |
| 16:40.38 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, lrg was suggesting that |
| 16:41.07 | kergoth | heh, customers tend to take their sweet time in paying, i take it? |
| 16:41.32 | T0mW | it is found money for them, if they have to pass costs onto their customer, the 5% doesn't show up. They can claim they paid the full amount. |
| 16:41.56 | T0mW | cost plus |
| 16:43.19 | T0mW | One customer I deal with related a situation where they had ended a 3% 10 net 30 and one of their distributors bitched. They always paid within 10 days and used the discount to finance a new building. |
| 16:43.45 | prpplague | kergoth: yea, its got me in a real mess |
| 16:43.53 | prpplague | kergoth: but its one of those live and learn deals |
| 16:43.57 | kergoth | ah |
| 16:44.02 | T0mW | yeah |
| 16:44.38 | prpplague | i've already updated my invoicing to include better terms and such |
| 16:45.00 | prpplague | %5 10 net 30, with %5 late fee after 30 |
| 16:45.29 | T0mW | I usually get 30% up front, 30% when I deliver the binary / board, they then accept the delivery (test it, etc.), they pay the final amount when I deliver the intellectual property (board design files, software sources..) |
| 16:45.39 | T0mW | prpplague: nobody pays late fees |
| 16:45.50 | T0mW | not to a consultant anyway |
| 16:45.51 | prpplague | T0mW: ahh |
| 16:46.16 | prpplague | T0mW: maybe i should change it to %5 7 net 15 |
| 16:46.24 | T0mW | no |
| 16:46.33 | T0mW | not standard, give them 10 |
| 16:47.03 | prpplague | %5 10 net 15 ? |
| 16:47.21 | T0mW | 10 days for discount, allows them time to process and mail you a check. The net 15 is aggressive, most companies work on a net 30 basis. |
| 16:48.17 | T0mW | net 70, net 90, heh, technically, you could force them into bankruptcy proceedings if their invoices are too far out. |
| 16:48.53 | prpplague | T0mW: i was reading some of this - http://unixwiz.net/techtips/be-consultant.html |
| 16:49.01 | prpplague | T0mW: they have a section on the net terms |
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| 16:49.38 | T0mW | net 30 means "I want the money in 30 days", after 30 days the "past due" clock starts running. If they go over 120 days past due, you can instigate legal action against them for insolvency. |
| 16:50.40 | prpplague | "I moved to net 10 terms, and this made an enormous difference in cash flow: a few customers simply cannot accommodate that fast of an invoice turnaround, but it's been a big win. This is a "soft" 10: I tell my customers that the first regular check run on or after net 10 is timely, and this usually means 10-15 days. What a huge difference this made in cash flow." |
| 16:51.43 | T0mW | prpplague: problem is that the company can claim that the goods you delivered were not proper and that they were withholding payments until you corrected for that. That is why you must specify the payment terms (schedule of payments) in your proposal ("contract"). |
| 16:52.07 | prpplague | kergoth / Mirell / T0mW people can say all kinds of things about me, but one thing people should know, i never make the same mistake twice(unless you count getting married) |
| 16:52.17 | T0mW | LOL |
| 16:52.30 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, thing is they all signed off on the work |
| 16:52.35 | T0mW | "nice woman, come home and sleep with me?" |
| 16:52.38 | prpplague | T0mW: so that's really not the issue here |
| 16:54.05 | T0mW | prpplague: yeah, if they signed off, you might be able to use that as acceptance. IF they are shipping the product, or placing it into production, that definately shows acceptance. |
| 16:54.14 | T0mW | prpplague: problem is, if you sue your customer... |
| 16:54.19 | T0mW | heh |
| 16:54.31 | prpplague | T0mW: i don't know about you, but making mistakes like this totally stress me out |
| 16:54.38 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, i don't think it will come to that |
| 16:54.58 | prpplague | T0mW: i think its just one of those deals where the don't pay until someone complains |
| 16:55.33 | prpplague | T0mW: one of the ones i spoke to this morning is even wire transfering the payment to settle the account |
| 16:55.46 | prpplague | T0mW: so we'll see how much has showed up by the end of the day |
| 16:55.55 | T0mW | "3% 10 net 30" is common, but that "5% 10 net 30" gets me paid in a hurry. Anecdotally, I've heard that the 3% doesn't excite too many people. |
| 16:56.06 | prpplague | yea |
| 16:56.13 | prpplague | thats what i heard as well |
| 16:56.52 | prpplague | i think i'll stick to the "5%10 net 30" for the next 6 months or so to see how it works out |
| 16:56.59 | SpeedEvil | 10% -60 net! |
| 16:57.01 | T0mW | prpplague: the devil is in the details, I'm pretty careful when I write a proposal, that is effectively a "contract". |
| 16:57.11 | prpplague | T0mW: you normally get 30% up front? |
| 16:57.16 | T0mW | yes |
| 16:57.29 | prpplague | T0mW: do they baulk at that? |
| 16:57.54 | T0mW | significant money up front to keep me in franks+beans while I work on your stuff, and it shows a commitment on their part. |
| 16:58.16 | prpplague | T0mW: i've been hesistant to do upfront money |
| 16:58.31 | prpplague | reconsiders |
| 16:59.05 | prpplague | T0mW: most of my contracts so far have been 120-160 hour contracts, billed on 40 hours completion |
| 16:59.45 | T0mW | I know that when a company wins a bid for some gov't or private contract, there is seed money given to start the contract, sometimes it is as much as 50% (depending). Under those types of contracts, there are performance clauses (e.g. $1000 per day fine against final invoice for every day past the agreed upon delivery date) |
| 17:00.36 | T0mW | prpplague: I don't do much "hourly" work, I prefer to quote for the entire job. Why should I tell them that I just charged you $15K for something that took me 3 days to complete? |
| 17:00.48 | prpplague | T0mW: hmm |
| 17:00.51 | prpplague | T0mW: indeed |
| 17:00.53 | Mirell | prpplague: You saying I'm bad talking you, eh. |
| 17:01.08 | prpplague | Mirell: hehe, probably |
| 17:01.35 | prpplague | ~lart Mirell |
| 17:01.35 | purl | chops Mirell in half with a free Solaris 7 CD |
| 17:02.02 | prpplague | T0mW: hmm, maybe i should have the first 40 hours paid in advance |
| 17:02.14 | Mirell | prpplague: I'm doing that for a potential gig for landley |
| 17:02.19 | Mirell | prpplague: 25% down for the 320 hours |
| 17:02.28 | T0mW | The customer usually has a perception of the value of something that they need. Trick is to find out what that value is, then charge them for it in a way that they feel good about. IOW, if it took you 3 days to build X and charged them $15K, DO NOT deliver it when it is finished, you may want to wait a week or so... |
| 17:02.55 | prpplague | T0mW: yea |
| 17:03.00 | prpplague | T0mW: i mainly quote hours |
| 17:03.13 | T0mW | I warranty my work for one year. You find something about it you don't like, I make good on it. Most times I gain. |
| 17:03.27 | prpplague | T0mW: i normally do just for 90 days |
| 17:03.55 | prpplague | T0mW: gives them incentive to throughly test it |
| 17:03.56 | T0mW | I just did a job that I quoted for $1800, simple change from 38.4K to 115.2K baud with a seek for the higher speed on a second serial port. |
| 17:04.05 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:04.43 | T0mW | that $@!#!% job took well over 300 hours to finish! 80c188 running at 14Mhz cannot keep up with 115K baud. not with an 800KHz bus under it. |
| 17:04.45 | Mirell | T0mW: How can you do that and avoid feature creep? |
| 17:04.53 | prpplague | the whole deal of having to call these people makes me feel like crap |
| 17:05.19 | prpplague | Mirell: that was my thought was well |
| 17:05.26 | Mirell | prpplague: I wonder if there's an invoicing outsourcing place |
| 17:05.37 | prpplague | Mirell: i am sure there is |
| 17:06.05 | prpplague | Mirell: i guess i'm colored by my fathers attitudes toward business transactions |
| 17:06.09 | T0mW | Mirell: you have to box the customer in with the proposal, if it is not in the proposal then you don't get it. No court is going to uphold someone complaining that you didn't deliver what you didn't promise. Spec your delivery fully. |
| 17:06.45 | T0mW | prpplague: yeah, handshake deals, right? |
| 17:07.09 | Mirell | T0mW: Right, but if you warranty your work, and they go, "Oh, but this doesn't work with this insane system we just now mention that you had no idea existed" six months later... |
| 17:07.13 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, and fair value for a fair product or work |
| 17:07.31 | prpplague | T0mW: all this wheeling and dealing wasnt something i grew up with |
| 17:07.41 | prpplague | i was watching that new episode of house last night |
| 17:07.44 | T0mW | So, you did warranty it for a year, no one said how fast you had to work... |
| 17:07.56 | prpplague | T0mW: all that high powered poker playing just doesn't suit me |
| 17:08.07 | T0mW | once that clock stops, one year from delivery, it is time + materials. |
| 17:08.47 | T0mW | prpplague: that is why most people will take a day job rather than go independent. Too much hassle for them. |
| 17:09.16 | prpplague | Mirell: i'm working on a project now that i;ve gotten burned on, i did the quote for a standard pxa3xx system, but unknown to me they are using a pxa310-s with a bunch of security features |
| 17:09.21 | T0mW | is sitting in his sweatsuit, smoking a cigar. |
| 17:09.51 | T0mW | do you think any boss would let me smoke my cigar at work? |
| 17:09.56 | prpplague | well if i'm going to stay in biz i have to master this aspect of things |
| 17:10.05 | T0mW | yupper |
| 17:10.30 | T0mW | It can be fun, it can also be scary. |
| 17:10.59 | prpplague | well to be honest, i'm more scared of my wife.......... |
| 17:11.14 | prpplague | (the ultimate debt collector) |
| 17:11.46 | T0mW | I like the time I had a customer at UL Laboratories and need a software rewrite right away so they could avoid rescheduling in another 4 months for acceptance testing. I made $4K for one evenings work. |
| 17:12.04 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:12.20 | T0mW | dead-a$$ tired the next morning, but I made delivery. "Fast, Cheap, or Right" Pick 2 |
| 17:12.45 | prpplague | well i am determined to make this business robust enough that i can retire on it |
| 17:13.05 | prpplague | so far i've had no problems finding work |
| 17:13.06 | T0mW | prpplague: hey, look at it this way, you starve now waiting for the money, but when you get that hunk of cash... |
| 17:13.12 | ohsix | what was being assessed at UL? |
| 17:13.18 | prpplague | T0mW: time for the nudie bar? |
| 17:13.39 | T0mW | prpplague: time for discipline, toss 20% into a savings account. |
| 17:14.07 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, i have plenty in savings, i just don't like having to dip into it when i have these folks owing me money |
| 17:14.42 | prpplague | T0mW: i'm expecting a pretty big 6-9 month contract here soon |
| 17:14.46 | T0mW | Savings Accounts are a PITA to get at your money, at least for me. I tend to only remember that I have it when I get desparate for cash. So, 10% of whatever I take in goes into that account for when the hard times hit. |
| 17:14.52 | prpplague | T0mW: if i get it, i'll be putting a bunch back |
| 17:14.57 | T0mW | :) |
| 17:15.48 | prpplague | just gotta make sure things continue going well for the next 30 days |
| 17:16.44 | T0mW | I'm just about done with my home heating project, another few hours work and I'll finally have the last of the insulation installed. |
| 17:17.21 | T0mW | Since I put up insulation under the last 300 sq ft of floor, the house is measurably more comfortable. |
| 17:17.51 | T0mW | I've got to box in the drain traps so they don't freeze. |
| 17:18.39 | prpplague | lordy lordy |
| 17:19.10 | prpplague | i really should rename the channel to #daves-theraphy , hehe |
| 17:19.35 | T0mW | hmm, reminds me. I got that payment and need to feed the savings account. |
| 17:20.01 | T0mW | phfft, you think you're the only one who needs this therapy? |
| 17:20.26 | T0mW | prpplague: look at how much better kergoth has gotten since he has been assocating with us? |
| 17:20.44 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe, just that i don't really have friends that i see face-to-face all the time, the folks in #edev are the only ones who have similar experiences that i talk with frequently |
| 17:20.51 | prpplague | T0mW: HA |
| 17:21.11 | prpplague | T0mW: and on top of that, he's now mr.popular with all the dev companies |
| 17:21.46 | T0mW | Same here for me, the engineers I see are at my customers place and they are guarded with their dealings with me: a consultant who could have their job. |
| 17:21.57 | prpplague | T0mW: and to think, 10 years ago, he was a lowly tech support nerd at digi |
| 17:22.03 | prpplague | jokes with kergoth |
| 17:22.07 | T0mW | ROTFL |
| 17:23.00 | prpplague | kergoth: having MV and MG fight over you is a long way form digi eh? |
| 17:24.16 | T0mW | well kiddies, time to suit-up and go back into the crawlspace. |
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| 18:45.40 | *** join/#edev _ABC (~me@pool-72-66-48-113.washdc.east.verizon.net) |
| 18:46.05 | _ABC | Hi all! Anyone have experience with Freescale microcontrollers? I'd like to know if there's an opensource programmer that does not use a freescale chip..because I have no way of programming it! |
| 18:52.48 | prpplague | _ABC: i did not understand your question |
| 18:54.27 | _ABC | prpplague: I am trying to find an opensource programmer for Freescale microcontroller S08 series. All the opensource programmers I've seen so far require the use of a freescale microcontroller, which needs to be programmed. |
| 18:55.06 | prpplague | _ABC: might find better info on the ##microcontrollers channel |
| 18:55.29 | _ABC | prpplague: I have tried, didn't get much reply |
| 18:56.31 | Mirell | Lord. |
| 18:56.33 | Mirell | Meat coma. |
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| 20:50.47 | NullMoogleCable | hi |
| 20:51.10 | NullMoogleCable | http://wtfmoogle.com/?page_id=741 |
| 20:51.10 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (~dijenerat@64.210.44.37) |
| 20:51.25 | NullMoogleCable | i figured out how to access the diji as a thumbdrive :) |
| 20:51.38 | prpplague | NullMoogleCable: indeed |
| 20:52.24 | prpplague | NullMoogleCable: under the linux side you can just mount the drive |
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| 21:32.58 | NullMoogleCable | fun info |
| 21:33.00 | NullMoogleCable | GCC: (GNU) 3.3.2 20031005 (Debian prerelease) GCC: (GNU) 4.1.1 GCC: (GNU) 4.1.1 GCC: (GNU) 4.1.1 GCC: (GNU) 4.1.1 GCC: (GNU) 3.3.2 20031005 (Debian prerelease) |
| 21:34.13 | NullMoogleCable | usb info |
| 21:55.55 | NullMoogleCable | lmao!! i hacked the startup video to be a rick roll! |
| 21:57.39 | prpplague | hehe |
| 22:23.13 | Mirell | So sleepy. |
| 22:38.58 | NullMoogleCable | http://wtfmoogle.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/0209001729.3g2 |
| 22:39.01 | NullMoogleCable | lol |
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| 23:15.05 | NullMoogleCable | so should i hack a uart port into the case of my diji or make a board? |
| 23:19.35 | prpplague | NullMoogleCable: easiest is just add the uart to the case |
| 23:19.45 | prpplague | NullMoogleCable: i've updated the wiki with some info and pictures |
| 23:20.15 | prpplague | NullMoogleCable: http://www.elinux.org/Didj_Serial_Console |
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| 23:29.17 | Mirell | Finally, an update from potential client. |
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| 23:51.32 | NullMoogleCable | hmmm i wonder if the i2c is broken out :) |
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