| 00:03.18 | NullMoogleCable | prpplague_afk you there? |
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| 00:42.20 | grummund | hi guys, i don't know if the right place to ask but here goes anyway... |
| 00:42.55 | grummund | i have an HP iPaq 114 and i'm trying to hook it up to a USB device |
| 00:43.30 | grummund | so far it makes no reaction when either USB mass storage device or USB serial device is plugged in |
| 00:44.00 | grummund | i just want to know if it's possible (with any OS) |
| 00:44.24 | grummund | (currently it has Windows Mobile though) |
| 00:44.46 | bsdfox | grummund: stick around, someone will have an answer for you |
| 00:45.39 | grummund | i'm using an adaptor like this one - http://www.cablejive.com/product_images/m/miniusb1__72146.jpg |
| 00:46.04 | grummund | although mine has the USB logo the other way around... dunno if that's significant |
| 00:47.51 | grummund | can't find anything on HP's site about using USB for anything other than ActiveSync |
| 00:48.12 | MonMotha | does the 114 support USB OTG? |
| 00:48.28 | grummund | how would i tell that? |
| 00:48.34 | MonMotha | no idea |
| 00:48.36 | MonMotha | manual or spec sheet |
| 00:49.09 | MonMotha | if it doesn't have OTG ("On The Go") support, then what you're doing just plain won't work |
| 00:49.15 | grummund | heh. ok, so i can google OTG now and maybe it takes me a little further on the path of discovery... |
| 00:49.20 | MonMotha | now, if it has a mini-A/B, then it in theory should support OTG |
| 00:49.31 | MonMotha | but people break that rule all the tiem |
| 00:50.12 | MonMotha | and if the hardware supports it, it may not work in WinCE |
| 00:50.25 | MonMotha | and if it doesn't work in WinCE, then none of the official docs will probably mention it |
| 00:50.33 | grummund | is WinCE the same as Windows Mobile ? |
| 00:50.40 | grummund | (sorry for being a dumb ass) |
| 00:50.45 | MonMotha | WinCE is the underlying OS of Windows Mobile (6.5 and earlier) |
| 00:50.52 | MonMotha | pronounce like "prince" :) |
| 00:51.05 | MonMotha | seeing as how that's what I tend to do when I have to use it :) |
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| 00:56.13 | grummund | Interfaces: Mini-USB 2.0 client for sync/data/charge, SDIO high-capacity card slot. |
| 00:56.37 | MonMotha | if it says "client", it probably means it |
| 00:56.49 | MonMotha | so you're probably SOL when it comes to host/OTG |
| 00:58.05 | grummund | this is probably why i cannot find much information about it then |
| 00:59.58 | grummund | any recommendations for a PDA that supports USB host mode? |
| 01:25.58 | rektide | heh good luck |
| 01:26.01 | rektide | buy an openpandora son |
| 01:26.03 | rektide | i did! |
| 01:28.12 | grummund | rektide: i'm new to this... do you have a url for that? |
| 01:28.31 | grummund | google openpandora understandably has a gazillion hits |
| 01:28.43 | rektide | openpandora.org i think |
| 01:29.41 | rektide | let it be noted again, i'm biased |
| 01:31.22 | grummund | is Windows Mobile OT here? |
| 01:33.09 | grummund | if this were for me i'd want a penguin on there... but it's not for me and it needs to be MS |
| 01:33.31 | grummund | basically a PDA with USB-Serial capability |
| 01:36.16 | MonMotha | what's funny is that the really old PDAs often had a real serial port exposed on a connector somewhere |
| 01:36.37 | MonMotha | but basically, look for one with USB OTG, but realize that there will be NO drivers for any of this stuff in WinCE |
| 01:36.53 | MonMotha | HID devices should generally work. Beyond that, if WinCE doesn't support it out of the box, it won't work. |
| 01:38.45 | grummund | hmm, this is a problem... but it might get me off of a job figuring out WM so it's not all bad :-P |
| 01:40.27 | grummund | so i guess the answer is find a PDA with USB OTG, stick Linux on there and then USB-Serial would be easy? |
| 01:43.58 | MonMotha | well, Linux does in general support most USB-serial devices, and since the drivers are OSS, they'll work on ARM (or whatever arch) |
| 01:44.05 | MonMotha | now, be aware that you can't just run Linux on any old PDA |
| 01:44.25 | grummund | yeah |
| 01:44.45 | grummund | i have linux on my olf ipaq 36xx |
| 01:44.54 | grummund | but that was just a play thing ;) |
| 01:46.17 | MonMotha | interestingly, the 36xx is one of those that does have a real serial port |
| 01:46.35 | grummund | yeah that's how i flashed it :P |
| 01:46.39 | MonMotha | I have a 3765 (identical to a late 36xx but shipped with a newer WinCE) |
| 01:47.51 | grummund | i find it amazing that Serial capability has been ditched so easily |
| 01:48.29 | MonMotha | most consumers don't need or want it |
| 01:48.43 | MonMotha | much to the detriment of embedded developers and network techs |
| 01:48.49 | grummund | sure PCs often don't have RS232 these days, but you can always use a USB-Serial cable |
| 01:49.03 | MonMotha | I think network techs are the only reason that some laptops still have a serial port on them |
| 01:49.19 | MonMotha | and actually, those USB things vary in capability |
| 01:49.29 | MonMotha | many don't let you bit-bang the handshake lines, which can cause problems in some applications |
| 01:49.37 | MonMotha | they also often have pathetically small buffers |
| 01:49.52 | MonMotha | I have a real 16950 PCIe expresscard for my laptop |
| 01:50.30 | grummund | ok, does that plug in pcmcia or what? |
| 01:50.34 | MonMotha | ExpressCard |
| 01:50.42 | MonMotha | that's the successor to PCMCIA/Cardbus |
| 01:50.46 | grummund | ok |
| 01:50.59 | MonMotha | smaller and PCIe (as well as USB) based |
| 01:51.02 | grummund | is soo behind on these things ;( |
| 01:51.25 | grummund | i actually remember the *introduction* of pcmcia |
| 01:52.00 | MonMotha | that wasn't too long ago |
| 01:52.10 | grummund | i also remember tring to stuff a pcmcia 32-bit card into a pcmcia 16-bit slot in complete ignorance :P |
| 01:53.54 | grummund | then trying to get irc support for the chipset only to discover that the card wasn't *supposed* to fit :) |
| 01:57.29 | MonMotha | yes |
| 01:57.40 | MonMotha | there's also the 3.3V/5V keying that threw a bunch of users for a loop |
| 01:58.01 | grummund | yes that was it |
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| 15:37.22 | pingbat | has anyone got any idea of how much power a USB HDD draws? |
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| 15:44.44 | wmat | pingbat: it varies. Here's a comparison of 4 different drives from 2 years ago: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/-external-hard-drive,2045-16.html |
| 15:51.32 | pingbat | i was thinking about the ones that draw power form USB as opposed to an adaptor |
| 15:53.33 | pingbat | the 2.5" ones |
| 15:54.13 | wmat | sorry, it's Monday and my mind reading ability is slightly off ;) |
| 15:55.04 | gustavoz | pingbat: on average they suck 1A on startup then relax |
| 15:55.38 | gustavoz | pingbat: it's basically a standard 2.5" disk consumption (get a couple datasheets) plus a small overhead for the controller |
| 15:56.10 | prpplague | pingbat: generally they use two USB connections to get 1000mA |
| 15:56.52 | prpplague | pingbat: i personally don't care for those since the usb power source can be turned off for over-current protection and if you are doing some writes to the drive you'd loose data |
| 15:59.12 | pingbat | do they use the mass storage device class? |
| 15:59.21 | gustavoz | yes |
| 15:59.34 | pingbat | The reason is I am pondering USB power management |
| 15:59.56 | pingbat | and whether I want to support USB HDD's as storage Devices |
| 16:00.02 | pingbat | but it is overkill |
| 16:00.13 | pingbat | flash is so cheap now |
| 16:01.44 | gustavoz | you'll have to do your homework there: what's your power budget, storage needs, so on |
| 16:02.14 | pingbat | this is not an issue |
| 16:02.28 | gustavoz | physical endurance, temperature endurance, ... |
| 16:02.33 | gustavoz | media lifespan |
| 16:05.48 | pingbat | ok, thanks guys |
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| 16:13.44 | pingbat | is it important to include overcurrent protection on Host USB ports? |
| 16:15.16 | prpplague | pingbat: all depends on what you are planning to do on the ports |
| 16:15.36 | prpplague | pingbat: most cheap usb hubs don't include over-current protection |
| 16:15.49 | prpplague | pingbat: however most root hubs in PCs/Laptops due |
| 16:18.48 | prpplague | can you believe that the SCO bankruptcy and trials are _still_ going on |
| 16:21.07 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 16:21.20 | pingbat | in practice is it wise to include some kind of VBus Power switch or can you just tie it to +5V |
| 16:21.24 | SpeedEvil | It takes a _long_ time for a big company to die and stop kicking. |
| 16:21.39 | SpeedEvil | pingbat: do you care about being actually USB compliant? |
| 16:21.59 | SpeedEvil | pingbat: Or that if you plug it into something with a loaded hub - the hub may reset? |
| 16:24.15 | pingbat | I am more worried about the board drawing too much current from an unregulated hub or the board being reset when acting as host |
| 16:25.36 | pingbat | so for those contigencies I think a resettable fuse and a switch would be required |
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| 16:44.35 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: re |
| 16:46.37 | prpplague | interesting buzz about citi bank - http://forums.wallstreetexaminer.com/index.php?showtopic=862608 |
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| 16:47.33 | prpplague | apparently at the end of march, all DDA checking accounts are going to convert to NOW accounts |
| 16:52.06 | sjhill | huh wha' ? |
| 16:56.40 | sjhill | ~whaleslap sorphin |
| 16:56.41 | purl | ACTION beats sorphin upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 16:56.47 | sjhill | wake up man |
| 17:01.12 | prpplague | sjhill: hey bud |
| 17:03.43 | sjhill | prpplague: howdy |
| 17:04.07 | sjhill | prpplague: man i hope to do some cricut this week |
| 17:04.32 | prpplague | sjhill: yea, i wish i had more time to tinker, i'm totally swampped with work |
| 17:06.15 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 17:06.21 | prpplague | is already stressing today |
| 17:08.34 | chouimat | morning |
| 17:08.41 | sjhill | g'day chouimat |
| 17:09.23 | chouimat | had way too much to drink last weekend ... |
| 17:10.22 | sjhill | kids |
| 17:10.25 | sjhill | i tell ya' |
| 17:11.07 | sjhill | has anyone used 'ebtables'? essentially i want to mangle Ethernet frames, rewrite parts of the frame, etc. |
| 17:11.30 | chouimat | sjhill: it was my birthday yesterday s |
| 17:11.35 | mnemoc | openwrt may be a good place for that |
| 17:12.06 | sjhill | chouimat: ah well, happy birthday! |
| 17:12.12 | sjhill | mnemoc: really? hmm |
| 17:12.29 | chouimat | sjhill: and some people I know kind of managed to ruin part of it ... |
| 17:12.52 | sjhill | chouimat: this is why i only celebrate birthdays with my immediate family |
| 17:13.12 | chouimat | sjhill: the problem is I don't have familly here ... |
| 17:13.15 | sjhill | mnemoc: you maintain that don't you? |
| 17:13.34 | mnemoc | sjhill: me? nah |
| 17:13.34 | sjhill | chouimat: that is indeed a problem, sorry to hear it goten ruin |
| 17:13.51 | mnemoc | sjhill: but they do lots of ebtables-related stuff |
| 17:14.49 | chouimat | sjhill: I was somewhat expecting this anyway, but it would have been nice if they showed a little more consideration but maybe I was expecting too much ... |
| 17:15.35 | mnemoc | expections and desire only give frustration :( |
| 17:15.47 | chouimat | sjhill: or it's the sign I needed to start looking for new and better friends ;) |
| 17:16.36 | chouimat | mnemoc: I agree |
| 17:21.16 | T0mW | chouimat: happy birthday |
| 17:21.44 | T0mW | chouimat: at my age, I just let those slide by quietly. |
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| 17:31.02 | prpplague | chouimat: here is your inspirational quote for your birthday - "The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older, |
| 17:31.02 | prpplague | Shorter of breath and one day closer to death" |
| 17:31.34 | prpplague | chouimat: happy b-day |
| 17:36.12 | chouimat | prpplague: thanks |
| 17:36.18 | chouimat | T0mW: thanks |
| 17:36.41 | prpplague | chouimat: np, glad i can provide inspirational words for you |
| 17:36.58 | bsdfox | pink floyd |
| 17:37.54 | prpplague | indeed |
| 17:38.15 | chouimat | last night 2 friends started to argue about stupid stuff and since they both know everything about everything even if they know nothing about the subject, and lately I start to rethink the friendship thing ... anyway let just say there was more yaks there than in an Himalyan village |
| 17:41.30 | chouimat | prpplague: and I left the pub early, so I missed some friends who I really wanted to see ... |
| 17:42.03 | prpplague | chouimat: doh |
| 17:42.18 | chouimat | prpplague: I wasn't enjoying the evening so |
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| 17:43.53 | mnemoc | chouimat: invite all except those two to a replacement b-day party :) |
| 17:44.33 | chouimat | mnemoc: hehe |
| 17:45.09 | chouimat | so I ended up drinking a 12 alone here like a loser :) |
| 17:45.33 | prpplague | chouimat: doh |
| 17:45.44 | mnemoc | you can still fix it |
| 17:46.16 | mnemoc | invite those you wanted to see |
| 17:46.16 | chouimat | mnemoc: yes I can. left just someone was a little bit sad when I left, and I might see her tonight |
| 17:46.28 | mnemoc | gut gut :) |
| 17:47.10 | chouimat | anyway I have to go buy some groceries I'm not prpplague to be able to survive on beer alone :) |
| 17:47.23 | prpplague | chouimat|away: hehe |
| 17:47.28 | mnemoc | ^^ |
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| 19:05.00 | prpplague | landley: ping |
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| 19:35.58 | prpplague | tomg2: greetings |
| 19:36.13 | tomg2 | prpplague, hey :) |
| 19:36.38 | tomg2 | wonders where buildroot/busybox is at these days |
| 19:37.30 | *** join/#edev [g2] (~tom@nslu2-linux/g2) |
| 19:37.48 | prpplague | [g2]: buildroot has been kind of stagnant for awhile |
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| 19:38.44 | [g2] | last I remember the main dev was sorting out GPL V2 versus V3 stuff |
| 19:38.53 | prpplague | [g2]: like so many other OSS projects, so people have basically taken it over and added everything including the kitchen sink to it, and then try to re-invent the wheel every 3 to 6 months |
| 19:39.17 | [g2] | was it landley ? |
| 19:39.46 | prpplague | [g2]: naw, imho he was the only sane voice in the bunch as far as busybox/buildroot is concerned |
| 19:39.58 | prpplague | landley: didn't you pretty much wash your hands of it? |
| 19:40.28 | [g2] | right, I think he was wrapping stuff and doing something with a portable C compiler but that was probably 3 years ago |
| 19:42.13 | T0mW | prpplague: yeah, I would guess that when new people took over, they didn't bother to ask if the new wheel had been tried before and found to be broken? |
| 19:42.42 | [g2] | :) |
| 19:43.33 | prpplague | T0mW: no i could understand that, what doesn't make sense is when they re-invent the same wheel over and over and over |
| 19:44.15 | [g2] | wow it's funny seeing all the old nicks GPSFan cbrake T0mW florian kergoth solar vapier :) |
| 19:44.52 | T0mW | g2: code addicts all |
| 19:45.13 | T0mW | g2: this the CA group: Coders Anonymous |
| 19:45.16 | prpplague | T0mW: hey since you are here |
| 19:45.18 | [g2] | T0mW, tech lovers :) |
| 19:45.24 | prpplague | T0mW: give me your $0.02 on something |
| 19:45.36 | T0mW | prpplague: only have a nickel, but go ahead |
| 19:45.44 | prpplague | T0mW: i'm looking at using either a DVI-I or DVI-D connector for one of my boards |
| 19:45.54 | T0mW | ok |
| 19:46.03 | prpplague | T0mW: are you familiar with those? |
| 19:46.12 | T0mW | no |
| 19:46.21 | prpplague | hmm |
| 19:46.33 | T0mW | never looked at them |
| 19:47.03 | prpplague | T0mW: you know on some video cards and PC's you have HDB-15 for the video? |
| 19:47.14 | prpplague | T0mW: sometimes you will also have a DVI connector as well |
| 19:47.34 | prpplague | T0mW: http://pinouts.ru/Video/dvi_pinout.shtml |
| 19:48.34 | [g2] | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface connector section :) |
| 19:48.59 | T0mW | yeah, I've seen the conns, but never bothered looking at the pinouts. Stuff like that is presently beyond any near term projects. |
| 19:49.41 | T0mW | prpplague: nice signals though |
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| 19:53.07 | prpplague | T0mW: yea trying to decide if i want to use DVI-I or DVI-D |
| 19:53.51 | prpplague | T0mW: i have an analog signal i need on the connector, just not sure if i want to put it on one of the other digital pins or use the DVI-I and use the ones that are allocated for analog |
| 19:54.02 | prpplague | cost difference is about $0.40 per unit |
| 19:55.30 | T0mW | prpplague: IMHO, if I would go with the "standard", even if that signal is not specifically what is purposed for. Better to have an analog on an analog pin than maybe have it connected to a digital input by mistake and blow a digital input. |
| 19:55.57 | T0mW | prpplague: at least, the analog input may have some clamping / signal conditioning and would take more abuse? |
| 19:56.01 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, that was kind of what i was thinking |
| 19:56.19 | prpplague | T0mW: just needed someone to agree with me :) |
| 19:56.26 | T0mW | prpplague: UNLESS, unit cost is absolutely a priority. |
| 19:56.47 | T0mW | e.g. 100K units per year, yada yada |
| 19:57.03 | chouimat | lalalalala |
| 19:57.04 | prpplague | yea this is a fairly low volume, i.e. 1200 per year |
| 19:57.15 | T0mW | chouimat: ah, better now? |
| 19:57.26 | chouimat | T0mW: no, but working on it :) |
| 19:57.32 | T0mW | heh |
| 19:58.07 | chouimat | T0mW: I was browsing a interesting website something that sound like y rodent ;) |
| 20:04.01 | prpplague | man have we had the snow this year |
| 20:05.48 | T0mW | hmmm, ever notice that as your project gets bigger, the ability to totally screw something up expands exponentially? |
| 20:05.50 | prpplague | suppose to get 1"-2" |
| 20:05.59 | prpplague | T0mW: indeed |
| 20:06.46 | *** part/#edev sorphin (~dstagner@sylvester.stl.sys.us.xo.net) |
| 20:07.11 | prpplague | jokes with kergoth |
| 20:07.30 | prpplague | T0mW: of course if it is kergoth , he can screw up any project no matter how big or small |
| 20:07.57 | T0mW | lol |
| 20:08.05 | prpplague | pokes kergoth with a sharp stick |
| 20:08.15 | T0mW | prpplague: yeah, look at OE |
| 20:08.15 | prpplague | kergoth: hows the new job? |
| 20:08.57 | [g2] | defends kergoth. He saved us on nslu2-linux with OE |
| 20:09.12 | prpplague | goes to get some sinus medicine |
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| 20:18.26 | prpplague | T0mW: the dvi cable has some nice shielded twisted pairs |
| 20:18.43 | prpplague | T0mW: so if you need to do a differential bus it makes it pretty easy |
| 20:18.56 | prpplague | T0mW: you can run USB very nicely over the twisted pairs |
| 20:19.41 | prpplague | T0mW: i generally use the DVI connectors and cables when i need to do USB but with something that is more secure/locking |
| 20:21.17 | T0mW | prpplague: interesting, the USB works through 50ohm? |
| 20:21.36 | T0mW | prpplague: somewhere I thought that I read that USB was 100ohm |
| 20:23.35 | prpplague | T0mW: yea it works as long as you don't try to go a long distance with it |
| 20:25.01 | T0mW | heh |
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| 20:25.24 | T0mW | little impedance mismatch never hurt nothin' |
| 20:26.15 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, for full-speed usb connections it works fine |
| 20:26.29 | prpplague | T0mW: jump up to the high-speed connection you start having a few issues |
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| 20:36.28 | roxfan | http://www.arm.com/about/newsroom/arm-launches-class-leading-cortex-m4-processor-for-high-performance-digital-signal-control.php |
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| 20:43.32 | T0mW | prpplague: not sure if you would have a 6db loss or 3db loss in signal level. |
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| 21:00.31 | roxfan | so that's what was the mysterious armv7e-m mentioned in the latest abi |
| 21:03.59 | T0mW | prpplague: interesting thing about an impedance mismatch with coaxial lines: the length of the coax will vary the lump (total) impedance of the transmission path. |
| 21:04.16 | T0mW | prpplague: so, if it won't work at 6 feet, try 8 feet or 7 or 9. |
| 21:04.27 | prpplague | T0mW: ahh right |
| 21:05.02 | prpplague | T0mW: now normally you have 22Ohm resistors in series for the lines |
| 21:05.14 | prpplague | T0mW: i guess you bump that up a little to compensate |
| 21:05.31 | prpplague | checks a couple schematics |
| 21:05.51 | T0mW | 50:50:50 (output:coax:load) can use any length coax. something like 100:50:100, the impedance of the coax is not 50 ohms but becomes reactive. |
| 21:06.33 | T0mW | prpplague: no, series buffering of the load only serves to protect the transmitter. It does nothing for the signal. |
| 21:06.35 | prpplague | T0mW: ahh right i follow |
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| 21:08.40 | T0mW | prpplague: theoretically, you could use an impedance matching circuit (aka transformation) at both ends. But, digital signals really don't have a "frequency" |
| 21:09.13 | prpplague | T0mW: where did you see that dvi cables were 50Ohm? |
| 21:09.49 | T0mW | prpplague: assumption, 50ohm is most common impedance for coax. |
| 21:09.59 | T0mW | prpplague: that includes the mini stuff |
| 21:10.13 | T0mW | RG-142? |
| 21:10.20 | T0mW | that 1/8" coax |
| 21:11.24 | prpplague | T0mW: hmm, in my datasheets it is showing nominal impedance of 100Ohms for DVI cables |
| 21:12.11 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, looks as though both DVI and HDMI cables are spec'd for 100Ohms |
| 21:12.25 | T0mW | prpplague: you could use a ferrite core to make a 2:1 transformer. that would be frequency agnostic and give you the impedance transformation with minimal loss. |
| 21:12.50 | T0mW | prpplague: ah |
| 21:13.21 | prpplague | usb is 90 Ohms +- 15% |
| 21:13.30 | prpplague | jeeze 15% |
| 21:13.36 | T0mW | prpplague: then should work with USB, provided your traces on the PCB from a 100ohm transmission line. |
| 21:13.46 | roxfan | "[21:50] <roxfan> i guess they're planning a cortex-m5 or something with dsp" |
| 21:13.50 | roxfan | hehe i knew it |
| 21:13.58 | prpplague | roxfan: hehe |
| 21:14.02 | prpplague | roxfan: nice call |
| 21:14.19 | roxfan | back in november |
| 21:14.46 | prpplague | T0mW: yea i've already done a board using the dvi connector for usb, but TBH i never looked into the impedance(my bad) |
| 21:14.47 | T0mW | prpplague: usb sux |
| 21:14.52 | prpplague | T0mW: it just worked |
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| 21:16.13 | T0mW | prpplague: I ran into trouble with the USB PCB traces with the Hammer_LCD. Cut the traces off the board and then rerouted with 30ga wire and it worked. |
| 21:16.56 | prpplague | T0mW: interesting |
| 21:18.20 | T0mW | prpplague: the kick-in-the-butt is that I have a reference that tells how to compute the impedence of two flat wires running parallel to each other (traces on a PCB), BUT, other components on the PCB can interfere with them. doh |
| 21:18.55 | T0mW | prpplague: heh, so, if the layout don't work right, change the PCB layout slightly and try again. |
| 21:18.59 | prpplague | T0mW: i like the dvi connector/cable since it has some nice twisted/shielded pairs plus solid ground and power |
| 21:19.06 | T0mW | yeah |
| 21:19.15 | prpplague | makes for a nice all in one cable |
| 21:19.53 | prpplague | ponders selling his DVI connector breakout board |
| 21:20.00 | T0mW | interesting thing that I never noticed about CAT-5E cable until someone pointed it out, the wire pairs are each twisted together at different turns ratios. |
| 21:20.30 | T0mW | less interference with adjacent pairs. |
| 21:21.21 | T0mW | leaves Dave alone and goes back to work |
| 21:21.25 | chouimat|afk | I think I will take the rest of the day off ... I'm bored and definitly unproductive today |
| 21:21.44 | T0mW | chouimat|afk: go troll the local mall for babes |
| 21:22.02 | chouimat|afk | T0mW: this is the plan but later |
| 21:22.29 | T0mW | chouimat|afk: w00t! you have something more "important" to do? |
| 21:22.44 | chouimat|afk | T0mW: yes |
| 21:23.56 | chouimat|afk | T0mW: like watching a DVD and bring it back to my friend because she asked to have it back ... |
| 21:32.52 | prpplague | interesting.... bill gates' college scholarships are only available to non-whites |
| 21:37.10 | prpplague | anyone know of a good scholarship search engine? |
| 21:38.39 | roxfan | discrimination :/ |
| 21:40.59 | prpplague | roxfan: looking for some scholarships for my wife's niece |
| 21:48.24 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 21:48.44 | prpplague | grumbles about how the US is totally screwed up these days |
| 21:48.58 | SpeedEvil | wonders how to source a decent electric blanket. |
| 21:49.11 | SpeedEvil | A awoke this morning to smoke wafting from around my genitals. |
| 21:49.19 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yikes |
| 21:49.26 | SpeedEvil | Not usually a welcome event. |
| 21:49.42 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: unless a nice looking woman is involved |
| 21:49.44 | SpeedEvil | Pondering replacing it with a water loop. |
| 21:49.59 | SpeedEvil | But I'll probably just order something boring. |
| 21:53.19 | prpplague | roxfan: my wife's niece already has two scholarships that should almost pay for alot of the school |
| 21:53.37 | roxfan | cool |
| 21:53.39 | prpplague | roxfan: both basically she got because she was from barbados |
| 21:53.48 | prpplague | roxfan: no really "scholarship" involved |
| 21:55.10 | prpplague | roxfan: funny thing is that both our kids have dual citizenship which will mean they will qualify for all the scholarships for barbados/west indians |
| 21:56.00 | prpplague | really messed up when having US citizenship is a disadvantage to getting college money |
| 21:56.15 | CosmicPenguin | I applied for a left-handed scholarship when I was going to college |
| 21:56.23 | CosmicPenguin | Got turned down - bastard rightists |
| 21:56.23 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: oh yea? |
| 21:56.28 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 21:56.43 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: rightly so...... |
| 21:57.45 | CosmicPenguin | I think the real reason why I was turned down is because so many brilliant people are left handed |
| 21:57.54 | prpplague | hehe |
| 21:58.20 | prpplague | worked to pay for the two years of college he attended |
| 21:59.06 | ohsix | takes more money to undo the damage :> |
| 21:59.20 | prpplague | ohsix: ?? |
| 21:59.28 | ohsix | plus we hate the educated!11 |
| 21:59.49 | ohsix | my terminal was froze, i was responding to 13:56 <@prpplague:#edev> really messed up when having US citizenship is a disadvantage to getting college money |
| 22:00.02 | prpplague | ohsix: ahh |
| 22:00.49 | ohsix | theres a serious and fanatical hate of education from a lot of people too :( makes stuff expensive |
| 22:01.08 | prpplague | ohsix: indeed |
| 22:02.00 | prpplague | my wife's niece will end up going to 4 years of college and not pay a dime |
| 22:03.19 | ohsix | its a sad state when there are systemic problems to being the best in education, especially considering that the number of jobs people can just park at and do have been gone for 40 years, need educated people to grow in this sort of sort of situation |
| 22:04.30 | prpplague | ohsix: yea the thing bothers me is that they get the education here and then go back to their home country, the benefits of the education do not remain in the US |
| 22:05.13 | ohsix | they tend to be highly elastic jobs that just go away even when they are available |
| 22:05.37 | ohsix | heh i'm not so much, if theres a tipping point you can always defect :> |
| 22:06.07 | prpplague | well, i sure plan to use the system for my kids college money |
| 22:07.21 | ohsix | people can country shop like people used to neighborhood shop; and take good jobs with you |
| 22:08.28 | SpeedEvil | In 40 years the unskilled jobs will come back. |
| 22:08.42 | SpeedEvil | As china and india take over. |
| 22:08.49 | ohsix | after jesus takes all the good guys!11 |
| 22:09.08 | SpeedEvil | (or more optimistically - once wages globally equalise) (and probablya bit more than 40 years) |
| 22:10.09 | ohsix | it would be fine and dandy if isolationists & bigots would actually isolate themselves, but i guess that would make them into more of a cult |
| 22:15.50 | prpplague | hehe |
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| 22:40.36 | Mirell | WTF, snow tomorrow? |
| 22:40.41 | Mirell | Sunday was gorgeous |
| 22:47.41 | SpeedEvil | would like some more snow. |
| 22:47.52 | SpeedEvil | As an excuse not to do work in the garden. |
| 22:47.59 | SpeedEvil | Alternatively, some days of 25C. |
| 22:48.03 | SpeedEvil | So it's nice. |
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| 23:08.34 | Mirell | Snow just a weird oddity in Austin |
| 23:12.40 | wmat | we're in the process of receiving 15cm of snow here in waterloo |
| 23:12.57 | SpeedEvil | ATM it's doing the sunny during the day cold at night thing here. |
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