| 00:16.43 | Mirell | waves at esr |
| 00:17.30 | esr | Mirell: I'm beating Rob into actually documenting FWL. Wish me strength of ARM...er, arm! |
| 00:22.29 | Mirell | esr: Good luck. I suspect he'll run screaming at anything other than straight 1995 HTML. |
| 00:33.44 | landley | Hey, I close my paragraph tags now! |
| 00:40.39 | landley | AAAAHHHHH!!!!!! |
| 00:41.11 | landley | Frustrating going over this documentation. "This bit's explained better over here" "That bit's out of date" "That doesn't belong there"... |
| 00:44.57 | landley | Wow I've changed a lot of stuff over the past year. |
| 00:49.45 | landley | esr: I think I need to break this into chunks and send you the chunks as I get 'em rewritten. |
| 00:50.11 | landley | We can stitch 'em back together in an whatever order seems best later. |
| 00:50.45 | esr | You're talking about the documentation page? |
| 00:51.41 | landley | Yup. |
| 00:52.00 | landley | Right now I'm still just re-reading it. |
| 01:06.07 | landley | Darn it. |
| 01:06.17 | landley | Mirell: do you have anything that can read a powerpoint? |
| 01:06.46 | landley | The CELF guys sent me a thing to make a poster for my demo, they're printing them in japan tomorrow... and I can't open the powerpoint template they gave me. |
| 01:09.17 | solar | oh you are going this year landley? |
| 01:09.28 | solar | anybody else going that we know online? |
| 01:10.06 | landley | solar: yup. |
| 01:10.13 | landley | Denys Vlasenko's gonna be there to. |
| 01:10.27 | landley | And the guy doing the device tree stuff for arm. |
| 01:13.51 | Mirell | landley: Yep. |
| 01:14.11 | landley | Mirell: if I forward you the message can you tell me what's in it? |
| 01:15.17 | Mirell | Opening now. |
| 01:17.02 | Mirell | landley: Sent you back a PDF version |
| 01:22.26 | solar | landley: calculus was asking me today if I was planing to go. |
| 01:22.26 | solar | guess this is the motivation I needed |
| 01:25.06 | landley | Mirell: thanks. |
| 01:25.19 | landley | 400 lines in to my own documentation, my brain is melting. |
| 01:25.31 | landley | Mostly from wanting to scream at myself from a year ago for doing it wrong... |
| 01:25.54 | landley | I have no idea how I ever actually get anything done... |
| 01:26.07 | landley | Large quantities of caffeine, I'm guessing. Alas, not this week... :( |
| 01:26.11 | solar | what are you talking about this year? |
| 01:26.26 | landley | solar: giving the presentation I gave at Ohio Linuxfest and Flourish. |
| 01:26.51 | landley | http://impactlinux.com/fwl/downloads/presentation.pdf |
| 01:27.05 | landley | Warning: taht's 80-megs ish. Somewhat graphically intense. |
| 01:27.45 | landley | The text-only version of the slides is here: http://impactlinux.com/fwl/presentation.html |
| 01:28.48 | landley | I'm also demoing my Firmware Linux project during the "everybody demos their toys" session. |
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| 01:31.13 | solar | I've been doing quite a bit of qemu-user-emulation recently in a full chrooted env. In that env I'm also using distcc to make a callback to the host's cross compiler. |
| 01:31.51 | solar | it works fairly well. But a tegra2 is probably going to be a better use of time |
| 01:31.58 | landley | esr: I'm having The Problem again. |
| 01:32.27 | landley | Every time I sit down to document something dodgy or unfinished, I have this urge to fix the code so I can document what it SHOULD be doing rather than what it IS doing. |
| 01:32.45 | landley | Reliable way to make my todo list longer... |
| 01:33.09 | landley | solar: my FWL project is now making system images for over a dozen different targets with the call out to the cross compiler working. |
| 01:33.30 | landley | And I have an automated build thing where you make a third hard drive image, plug it in as /dev/hdc, and it does an automatic build of the packages in it. |
| 01:33.45 | landley | I'm trying to update all the documentation now, because Eric Raymond is poking me to do so. |
| 01:33.48 | solar | targets being unique CHOST's ? |
| 01:34.01 | solar | or arches? |
| 01:34.49 | esr | landley:Remember when I said "Fix what's wrong, first?" This is why. |
| 01:35.21 | landley | Mirell: any idea how to edit a PDF? The template is sort of templatey. needs stuff changed... |
| 01:35.34 | esr | If you try to fix everything at once you will fix nothing. |
| 01:35.48 | landley | targets being armv4l (oabi), armv4lt (eabi), armv5l, armv6l, and so on. |
| 01:36.04 | landley | With various derivative targets for specific hardware arches (such as the nail board being an armv4tl derivative) |
| 01:36.16 | landley | The derivative targets are all prefixed with hw- (for hardware). |
| 01:36.41 | landley | esr: I'm going to chop it into pieces on the second pass and send you about a page at a time. |
| 01:36.50 | esr | Why? |
| 01:37.28 | esr | I'll just dump it right back on the web page *where it belongs* :-) |
| 01:37.30 | Mirell | landley: Can OpenOffice not open it? |
| 01:37.35 | landley | Because that way I can take easy chunks out of order, I have a diminishing pile of "still wrong" bits, and I can defer worry about what order the chunks should go in when reassembled. |
| 01:37.49 | landley | Mirell: the ppt? not so far. might need ot install more bits of it... |
| 01:39.46 | solar | oh the conf it's already started? |
| 01:40.00 | Mirell | landley: Google Docs opens it. |
| 01:40.22 | landley | solar: next week. |
| 01:40.31 | solar | oh n/m that was 09. I can't find the dates for 2010 |
| 01:40.42 | landley | They sent me a powerpoint thing for a poster they're printing p tomorrow for one of my sessions. Trying to figure out how to read powerpoint so I can edit it and send it back. |
| 01:41.13 | landley | solar: http://www.embeddedlinuxconference.com/elc_2010 |
| 01:41.45 | solar | I wish these links still worked. http://www.celinux.org/elc2007/ -> 2010 |
| 01:41.46 | Mirell | landley: I just said Google Docs opens it. |
| 01:41.49 | solar | thanks |
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| 01:43.36 | landley | Mirell: ok, I'll try google docs. Open Office just had a hilarious critical font metrics failure attempting to open the pdf. It's AMAZINGLY bad. |
| 01:44.05 | landley | solar: tell Tim Bird, not me. :) |
| 01:44.25 | solar | wishes go out for the world to see |
| 01:44.37 | Mirell | Fly high, little wishes |
| 01:44.39 | Mirell | Fly high |
| 01:44.57 | solar | oh this should be neat. You could get greg,you,me,denis together to talk udev vs mdev :) |
| 01:47.08 | landley | Mirell: nope, Google docs had a funky font wordwrapping issue too. I'll try feeding it the pdf instead of the ppt... |
| 01:47.13 | Mirell | Uh. |
| 01:47.23 | Mirell | It didn't for me. |
| 01:47.36 | landley | solar: sure, except half of mdev is obsolete now that devtmpfs went in. |
| 01:47.41 | landley | The other half's still useful, though. :) |
| 01:48.02 | landley | And I try n ever to argue with greg about anything, that means i don't want to hit him quite so much. |
| 01:48.24 | solar | the syntax expression is useful and nearly required |
| 01:49.06 | landley | Mirell: did you load it with firefox or chrome or what? And did you load the ppt or the pdf? |
| 01:49.47 | landley | solar: I think you me and denys shold just get together and figure out what to talk about once we do that. Denys has my cell phone number, I might still have yours from last time. |
| 01:50.00 | landley | Mine hasn't change since the 1990's... :) |
| 01:50.48 | Mirell | landley: Safari. The .ppt |
| 01:52.56 | landley | Tried both chrome and mozilla, same wordwrapping problem. |
| 01:53.03 | landley | Probably Ubuntu's selection of fonts. |
| 01:53.14 | landley | At a guess, it works fine on the mac. :) |
| 01:53.36 | Mirell | On the Mac, I just opened it in Keynote. |
| 01:53.59 | Mirell | Er, would just. I tried both that and Google Docs. |
| 01:54.44 | landley | I'm using google docs. It's hiccuping a bit, but mostly working. |
| 01:54.55 | landley | The font metrics are wonky, I don't think Linux has the font it wants and it's substituting another. |
| 02:06.47 | solar | landley: mine is actually due to get shut-off anytime now. |
| 02:07.01 | landley | your what is due? Oh, cell phone. |
| 02:07.04 | solar | landley: when do take? |
| 02:07.11 | landley | When do I take what? |
| 02:07.14 | landley | Plane? |
| 02:07.33 | solar | sorry. When do you talk? |
| 02:07.43 | landley | Ah. Um, not sure, lemme dig... |
| 02:07.44 | solar | types too fast for his own good sometimes |
| 02:08.54 | landley | I remember I'm scheduled opposite Grant Likely's "device trees for arm" talk, which is probably _the_ talk I'd want to see... Grumble. |
| 02:08.56 | landley | http://www.embeddedlinuxconference.com/elc_2010/program.html |
| 02:09.23 | landley | 3:45 on Wednesday. For one hour. |
| 02:10.16 | landley | Given the mass of slides I pointed you at earlier (260 of them, I think), I could easily fill more than one hour. But I blather... |
| 02:12.03 | landley | esr: Hey Eric, do you have google docs access? |
| 02:12.20 | esr | Yes, why? |
| 02:13.47 | landley | Care to proofread the poster I'm sending the CELF guys? |
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| 02:31.42 | landley | Ok, I sent it to Tim Bird at CELF. |
| 02:32.32 | landley | Mirell: do you think we could get together some evening or weekend to convert GFS to a /dev/hdc build? I spent a couple hours studying it myself and haven't gotten through more than the first 10% I think. (You put a _lot_ of work into it.) |
| 02:41.41 | landley | Yay, 500 lines of my old documentation read! (1/4 through.) I take a break now... |
| 02:42.29 | calculus | landley: your blog says you have a tough time using half of 32 megs of ram |
| 02:42.48 | calculus | that seems hard to do |
| 02:43.19 | calculus | March 29 entry |
| 02:47.50 | landley | calculus: oops, that's gigs of course. :) |
| 02:48.14 | landley | Fixed it. (Yes, cheating I know...) |
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