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| 01:04.13 | davr | mnemoc: android 2.1 works fairly well on the G1 with 128 MB of ram (and 24 MB of that or so is dedicated to the gfx chip, linux itself only sees about 104MB) |
| 01:04.46 | davr | Not sure how much the requirements changed from 2.1 to 2.2, I hear 2.2 enables JIT, and that might increase the requirements |
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| 08:05.19 | mnemoc | davr: thanks for the info, time to undust my s3c6410 256M/2G netbook :p |
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| 08:12.35 | transplant | hi. is g++ required in the Aboriginal build or its just there as a useful tool? |
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| 09:12.41 | alexand3r | yoh |
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| 14:13.24 | tewfik | hi everybody |
| 14:16.52 | Mirell | Mmm, Thursday. |
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| 14:24.25 | landley | Why is it morning? |
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| 14:27.13 | Mirell | Because of the rotation of the Earth. |
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| 14:44.33 | chouimat | morning |
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| 14:51.25 | CosmicPenguin | "What do you mean you need a week to get X running on target? We just brought it up on QEMU, what more do you have to do?" |
| 14:52.33 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:52.45 | chouimat | ouch |
| 14:53.07 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i get similar type of stuff on board bringup |
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| 14:53.53 | prpplague | landley: greetings |
| 14:54.06 | landley | hiya. |
| 14:54.08 | CosmicPenguin | Unfortunately, I'm on a hot streak lately. I'm on my third processor in 6 months and my total bring up time for all three is just about 4 days |
| 14:54.08 | chouimat | prpplague: last contract I had 2 weeks to port their software to a new devices where I didn't have any documentation for the crappy toolkit they put on the board |
| 14:54.16 | prpplague | btw, if you haven't heard, the SCO case is finally over |
| 14:54.18 | CosmicPenguin | So I've set unrealistic expectations |
| 14:54.38 | chouimat | CosmicPenguin: that's the problem when you're good ;) |
| 14:54.50 | landley | I read pj's summary. |
| 14:54.55 | prpplague | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20100610161411160 |
| 14:55.51 | landley | I've been off that case for 5 years now.. |
| 15:35.32 | CosmicPenguin | The command of the day is.. 'stg float' |
| 15:35.36 | CosmicPenguin | *hug* |
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| 21:45.04 | kesselhaus | is someone here familiar with PPC MPC56xx devices and exception handling? |
| 21:47.52 | SpeedEvil | is not. |
| 21:47.58 | SpeedEvil | And my own question: |
| 21:48.19 | SpeedEvil | Is anyone familiar with audio DMA on the omap3430? |
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| 22:20.13 | kesselhaus | SpeedEvil: hehe... seems like a stalemate situation ;) |
| 22:30.05 | Mirell | Man. |
| 22:30.09 | Mirell | That was a horrible interview. |
| 22:33.31 | SpeedEvil | Were you unexpectedly naked? |
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| 22:53.43 | Mirell | No. |
| 22:53.48 | Mirell | I was the one doing the interviewing. |
| 22:53.55 | Mirell | The interviewee was horrible. |
| 22:54.16 | davidc__ | Mirell: heh. whatcha interviewing for? |
| 22:54.39 | Mirell | davidc__: It was a security research engineer position at my company. |
| 22:54.51 | davidc__ | Mirell: hah. Too bad you're not located near me |
| 22:54.58 | Mirell | The one thing I cannot take, |
| 22:55.00 | davidc__ | seems like something I'd be interested in |
| 22:55.11 | Mirell | Is when you put stuff on your resume, and when you're asked about it, you don't know it. |
| 22:55.29 | Mirell | This guy put SQL on his resume. "Okay, give me a SQL statement." |
| 22:55.35 | Mirell | "...show * from *" |
| 22:56.02 | davidc__ | ouch |
| 22:56.15 | Mirell | The one that made me go, god damn, |
| 22:56.27 | Mirell | Was tell me the difference between statically and dynamically linked executables. |
| 22:56.53 | davidc__ | which should be one that any guy who's done security could hit outta the park |
| 22:57.08 | davidc__ | Mirell: so what did he say? |
| 22:57.30 | Mirell | davidc__: He couldn't come up with a difference, said something about the symbol table lookup being different... |
| 22:57.52 | Mirell | I would have accepted, "one is bigger than the other" |
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| 22:58.13 | davidc__ | haha, ouch |
| 22:58.15 | Mirell | Oh, he also listed iPhone programming on his resume. |
| 22:58.32 | Mirell | "Okay, so, you've done Objective-C programming, right?" |
| 22:58.32 | kesselhaus | sorry, what was the answer? |
| 22:58.38 | Mirell | "Oh, it hasn't actually started" |
| 22:58.52 | Mirell | kesselhaus: The correct one, or what he gave? |
| 22:58.59 | kesselhaus | what he gave |
| 22:59.25 | Mirell | kesselhaus: Initially, he asked if that was like the difference between a soft and hard link |
| 22:59.42 | kesselhaus | oh, cool.. |
| 22:59.46 | Mirell | kesselhaus: Then he rambled on for a bit, I don't remember what exactly. |
| 22:59.52 | Mirell | kesselhaus: But nothing even vaguely right. |
| 23:00.31 | davidc__ | Mirell: its really too bad I'm nowhere near you guys; I'd nail that interview :P |
| 23:00.38 | Mirell | Heh. |
| 23:00.40 | Mirell | davidc__: Where you at? |
| 23:00.44 | davidc__ | Mirell: vancouver, BC |
| 23:00.52 | Mirell | davidc__: Also, we totally have much, much harder questions. |
| 23:00.54 | davidc__ | Mirell: btw, does anyone know what rock prpplague is hiding under? |
| 23:00.58 | davidc__ | Mirell: hah, ask me a hard one |
| 23:01.08 | landley | If what was like the difference between soft;hard link? |
| 23:01.13 | Mirell | davidc__: Well, this is medium, |
| 23:01.31 | Mirell | davidc__: What's the difference between BSD loopback device, and Linux loopback device, from libpcap's point of view? |
| 23:01.50 | landley | davidc__ prpplague was here this morning |
| 23:02.03 | davidc__ | Mirell: yeah that one's got me. I'd say. No idea, but give me 20 minutes with the libpcap sources / kernel sources and I'll tell ya |
| 23:02.45 | Mirell | davidc__: Heh, yah. Basically, BSD only sends a 4-byte indentifer for the network-layer protocol, |
| 23:02.54 | Mirell | davidc__: And Linux fakes the Ethernet frame for you. |
| 23:03.12 | Mirell | If you even get half the questions I ask, |
| 23:03.17 | Mirell | You're doing awesome. |
| 23:03.23 | Mirell | This guy got none. |
| 23:03.51 | landley | Ah, net loopback not /dev/loop |
| 23:04.12 | Mirell | landley: Static versus dynamic linking. |
| 23:04.18 | Mirell | landley: Horrible guy we interviewed today. |
| 23:04.28 | landley | ow |
| 23:05.19 | landley | I am ignorant about many things. I admit it, often preemptively. |
| 23:05.29 | Mirell | Oh yes. |
| 23:05.40 | Mirell | Which is why pretty much you're not going to know half the questions I ask, |
| 23:05.46 | Mirell | But I also try to help them through it. |
| 23:06.04 | Mirell | I also asked about process states in Linux. |
| 23:06.05 | landley | This week I've been discovering vast new untapped reserves of ignorance. |
| 23:06.13 | Mirell | He got "Running", and "Waiting" |
| 23:06.24 | Mirell | I tried many times for him to get at least "Zombie" |
| 23:06.32 | Mirell | Couldn't do it. |
| 23:06.46 | kesselhaus | Where is 'Ready'? ;) |
| 23:06.52 | landley | Which is a pity, because I thoight I had a reasonable handle on elf linking. |
| 23:06.57 | Mirell | He also listed MIPS experience on his resume, |
| 23:07.08 | Mirell | Turns out, he only did that in college, and never with a real MIPS chip. |
| 23:07.18 | Mirell | "So, you've never messed with your home router?" |
| 23:07.23 | Mirell | Nope. |
| 23:12.27 | SpeedEvil | static/dynamic, hard/softlinks are a nobrainer, as are process states. No clue on loopbacks though :) |
| 23:12.49 | SpeedEvil | Would the SQL from 'bobby drop tables' work? :) |
| 23:12.51 | kesselhaus | well, process states depends on OS |
| 23:13.00 | Mirell | I was asking Linux specifically. |
| 23:13.07 | kesselhaus | ah, ok |
| 23:14.03 | Mirell | Man, I still love the fresh smell of my business cards |
| 23:14.19 | kesselhaus | but at least 3 states all OS have |
| 23:15.58 | SpeedEvil | tries to remember process states under DOS. |
| 23:16.04 | SpeedEvil | (though 'OS' is questionable) |
| 23:16.09 | Mirell | Oh. |
| 23:16.18 | Mirell | Also asked about Linux bootloaders. |
| 23:16.32 | Mirell | He couldn't tell a single difference between grub and lilo. |
| 23:16.34 | SpeedEvil | grub/lilo |
| 23:16.39 | SpeedEvil | and embedded stuff |
| 23:16.39 | Mirell | Also he said he could never get grub setup. |
| 23:17.31 | SpeedEvil | nolo /qi/ and another one that's installed 2m from me and I've forgotten the name. |
| 23:18.09 | Mirell | Admittedly, this guy was a fresh graduate, |
| 23:18.12 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 23:18.21 | Mirell | But I don't tolerate bullshitting. |
| 23:18.26 | SpeedEvil | I've never actually setup grub - lilo just works for me. |
| 23:18.44 | Mirell | AhWell. |
| 23:19.14 | Mirell | http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ is a great place for interview questions. |
| 23:20.47 | SpeedEvil | I suspect I'd answer many of those 'I know the structure of the bas manpage, and can find out in about 30 seconds. |
| 23:21.35 | SpeedEvil | sighs. |
| 23:21.46 | SpeedEvil | is trying to write a better powertop. |
| 23:22.10 | SpeedEvil | Ideally - I want what is implied by the name - sorted list of processes by power use. |
| 23:22.15 | SpeedEvil | This is hard. :) |
| 23:24.04 | SpeedEvil | SOme of the really basic questions seem not to be answerable easily without more hooks. For example - I don't care about timers going off in processes as an abstract. I care about what process was the first to trigger a chain of events. |
| 23:24.26 | SpeedEvil | So I want 'What processes are waking the CPU out of C4' |
| 23:25.50 | kesselhaus | C4? |
| 23:26.01 | SpeedEvil | Idle state. |
| 23:26.56 | kesselhaus | whatever .. i use OSEK ;) |
| 23:27.37 | SpeedEvil | http://www.osekcleveland.org/ ? |
| 23:30.40 | kesselhaus | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSEK |
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| 23:33.32 | SpeedEvil | I wish that would be implemented widely. |
| 23:33.43 | SpeedEvil | There is no good reason for ECUs to be vendor specific. |
| 23:33.52 | SpeedEvil | It's just a profit centre for repairs. |
| 23:35.09 | Mirell | SpeedEvil: I'm fine with looking stuff up, |
| 23:35.25 | Mirell | SpeedEvil: But I expect you to know basic, basic stuff. Like, tail. |
| 23:35.32 | SpeedEvil | ah - sure. |
| 23:35.55 | SpeedEvil | I tend to do way too much in awk. :) |
| 23:35.59 | Mirell | SpeedEvil: I like to give the Bash forkbomb to people. |
| 23:36.14 | SpeedEvil | :():... or something |
| 23:36.15 | Mirell | SpeedEvil: And try to work through it with them what it is, and does. |
| 23:36.17 | SpeedEvil | I forget. |
| 23:36.26 | Mirell | :(){:|:&};: |
| 23:36.30 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 23:36.44 | SpeedEvil | I spent a pointless hour once trying to shave a char off that. |
| 23:36.50 | Mirell | Heh. |
| 23:37.13 | kesselhaus | SpeedEvil: which would be implemented widely? |
| 23:37.14 | SpeedEvil | Even done realtime DSP in awk. |
| 23:37.17 | SpeedEvil | Which was a bit silly. |
| 23:37.18 | Mirell | Oh, and I had a regex today I came up with that I didn't get to ask. |
| 23:37.21 | SpeedEvil | kesselhaus: yes. |
| 23:37.57 | kesselhaus | SpeedEvil: you mean linux? |
| 23:38.00 | kesselhaus | or osek |
| 23:38.00 | SpeedEvil | (to take GPS output, and sox|hexdump from an injector hooked to a soundcard to give realtime mpg. |
| 23:38.02 | Mirell | Assuming you have ##alpha(5,10)##@blah.com,moo@thing.com,##num(1)##thing@example.com |
| 23:38.03 | SpeedEvil | osek |
| 23:38.17 | Mirell | Come up with a regex that finds the commas not in the ##()## stuff. |
| 23:38.29 | kesselhaus | well, we use an OSEK implementation from vector-informatik |
| 23:39.19 | SpeedEvil | kesselhaus: I mean in terms of end-user (well - mechanic) can swap out failed ECU for OEM implementations - for example. |
| 23:40.30 | kesselhaus | well, you can not exchange OSEK |
| 23:42.33 | kesselhaus | it's not like on PC, install linux or windows or .. and install an app. the OS is part of the app |
| 23:49.12 | SpeedEvil | Of course. |
| 23:50.21 | SpeedEvil | I do understand the challenges - I just don't agree with the current solution of having several hundred models of utterly incompatible ECU, for what are basically very simple machines, with very similar needs. |
| 23:50.48 | SpeedEvil | This is not unrelated to the fact that I have a car sitting with a dead ECU, that would cost more to diagnose than the car is worth. |
| 23:51.15 | SpeedEvil | needs to solder up his megasquirt kit. |
| 23:51.29 | Mirell | Hmm. |
| 23:54.21 | kesselhaus | 'several hundred models of utterly incompatible ECUs'? |
| 23:57.24 | SpeedEvil | In that each model of car typically has one. |
| 23:57.56 | kesselhaus | SpeedEvil: well, it all depends on the OEM... we currently have one system with two ECUs for one customer, and for each platform we need to change the CAN part, and for another, change the CAN and I/O pins for another OEM |
| 23:59.12 | SpeedEvil | I mean here user-visible models. |
| 23:59.25 | SpeedEvil | So if you can't swap it, it's not the same ECU |