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| 10:56.30 | Mirell | 128GB SSD just ordered. |
| 11:26.27 | SpeedEvil | Woo! |
| 11:26.42 | SpeedEvil | Today I've been screwing with my new solar panel. |
| 11:26.46 | Mirell | Figure it'll give me another year or two out of this laptop |
| 11:26.46 | SpeedEvil | I love ebay. |
| 11:26.49 | SpeedEvil | (and hot water) |
| 11:27.00 | Mirell | Considering I've been putting up with a 5400RPM drive, SSD will be OMGWTFBBQ |
| 11:27.06 | Mirell | New solar panel? |
| 11:27.27 | SpeedEvil | Solar-thermal panel - ~1.5m^2 area evacuated tube |
| 11:27.51 | SpeedEvil | Doing about 1500W at the moment in the scottish sun. |
| 11:31.47 | Mirell | Nice |
| 11:32.16 | SpeedEvil | On-topicness - I plan to home-roll a controller. |
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| 13:16.40 | sanket | hello |
| 13:17.00 | sanket | can anyone help me how to compile IceWm for mips in buildroot |
| 13:27.31 | florian | I'm tempted to suggest using OpenEmbedded :-) |
| 13:27.52 | florian | I have to admit that I'm slightly biased |
| 13:29.13 | sanket | my development board is too old.... heard of DEV3210 MIPSEL ..... |
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| 13:41.11 | florian | not really... |
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| 18:04.47 | prpplague | wmat: i'm running late on finishing up my answers |
| 18:04.59 | prpplague | wmat: should have time to finish this afternoon |
| 18:07.29 | prpplague | hehe i love this quote |
| 18:07.32 | prpplague | "The University of Nebraska-Lincoln has proposed "differential tuition," a tuition structure that varies based on your major. An engineering major for example, would now pay considerably more than an English major. Liberal Arts majors would presumably get their education for free." |
| 18:08.40 | alex4nder | haha |
| 18:08.47 | alex4nder | I guess that would end that debate. |
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| 18:11.46 | prpplague | kergoth: hey bud |
| 18:11.52 | kergoth | hey |
| 18:12.41 | prpplague | throws unused yocto thumb drives are kergoth |
| 18:12.49 | prpplague | throws unused yocto thumb drives at kergoth |
| 18:12.50 | Crofton|work | rofl |
| 18:12.56 | Crofton|work | how many do you have? |
| 18:13.11 | prpplague | counts |
| 18:13.20 | prpplague | i have 12 |
| 18:13.27 | prpplague | they are the new AOL CD |
| 18:13.51 | Crofton|work | how big are they? |
| 18:13.56 | Crofton|work | I have a couple around |
| 18:14.05 | Crofton|work | but 12 is an accomplishment |
| 18:14.06 | prpplague | Crofton|work: 1gb |
| 18:14.12 | Crofton|work | not bad |
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| 19:13.10 | wmat | prpplague: cool, thanks again! |
| 19:13.34 | prpplague | wmat: np |
| 19:14.04 | wmat | prpplague: how did you end up with 12 Yocto thumbdrives? |
| 19:14.54 | prpplague | wmat: all the TI folks at ELC-E gave me theirs, a bunch came back from fosdem, and i got three more at ELC |
| 19:15.04 | wmat | ah |
| 19:15.35 | prpplague | wmat: i really enjoyed getting that Intel Atom dev board at ELC-E |
| 19:16.28 | prpplague | wmat: it had a really nice power supply, some great cables, a usb->rs232 adapter, and a nice box, not sure what i did with the actual board(think it got throw in the trash) |
| 19:16.29 | kergoth | yocto thumb drives? they give out ones with 1.0 on them? |
| 19:16.59 | prpplague | kergoth: yea, the latest ones i got had 1.0 on them |
| 19:25.45 | Crofton|work | Be nice :) |
| 19:26.27 | prpplague | hehe |
| 19:37.47 | wmat | prpplague: there's lots of board giveaways at ESC this coming week. I only hope I can get out of the MV booth to track some down. |
| 19:38.08 | prpplague | wmat: ahh |
| 19:38.15 | prpplague | wmat: yea that beer and boards looked cool |
| 19:38.25 | prpplague | wmat: i would have liked to go to that |
| 19:39.44 | wmat | the conference bags come with a few dev boards in them |
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| 19:44.29 | prpplague | wmat: oh wow |
| 19:44.34 | prpplague | has never been to ESC |
| 19:46.44 | wmat | unfortunately, booth babes like myself don't get the bags |
| 19:46.53 | prpplague | doh |
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| 19:57.57 | prpplague | GPSFan: ping |
| 19:58.01 | prpplague | florian: greetings |
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| 19:59.44 | florian | hey prpplague |
| 20:08.37 | GPSFan | prpplague, g'day |
| 20:09.28 | prpplague | GPSFan: hey, can you put something on your panda todo list? you know how you did the adding to usb page? can you do one for adding a power button? |
| 20:10.13 | GPSFan | prpplague, sure, I'd like a power button, unplugging it sucks. |
| 20:11.11 | GPSFan | prpplague, is there some secret/hidden way, or just add a switch in the power cable ;>) |
| 20:11.37 | GPSFan | looks at the schematic |
| 20:12.17 | prpplague | GPSFan: just add a button between pin 12 of j6 and ground |
| 20:15.00 | GPSFan | that would be INPUT_POWER_nDIS |
| 20:16.35 | prpplague | GPSFan: should be labeled "PB_PWR_ON" on the schematic |
| 20:26.13 | GPSFan | prpplague, I was looking at sheet 2. INPUT_POWER_nDIS is part of the overvoltage crowbar. There must be an internal pullup on the Phoenix PMIC PWRON pin. I hope it is protected from static. |
| 20:26.29 | prpplague | GPSFan: it is |
| 20:27.05 | GPSFan | prpplague, good then I'll gen up something that shows adding a switch from pin 12 of j6 to gnd. |
| 20:27.25 | prpplague | GPSFan: thanks! |
| 20:27.43 | prpplague | GPSFan: btw, ground for 10 seconds to force power off |
| 20:27.45 | GPSFan | might take a day or 2 for me to find a round tuit. |
| 20:27.48 | prpplague | GPSFan: np |
| 20:28.11 | GPSFan | how about to turn power on? |
| 20:30.53 | prpplague | GPSFan: just short for 500ms |
| 20:31.12 | prpplague | GPSFan: the newer kernels should support power button event detection as well |
| 20:35.10 | GPSFan | prpplague, ah, so it can be a pushbutton. I'll poke at it a bit. |
| 20:35.18 | prpplague | yea |
| 20:36.06 | prpplague | GPSFan: maybe use a cheapie button from the shack or sparkfun as an example |
| 20:38.05 | GPSFan | I'll see if I can find a "BIG RED BUTTON" |
| 20:39.52 | SpeedEvil | Ebay has machinery buttons |
| 20:40.14 | SpeedEvil | may buy too much from ebay. |
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| 22:56.40 | *** join/#edev DeM0nFiRe (kvirc@vl948-336.wireless.umass.edu) |
| 22:56.43 | DeM0nFiRe | Hello |
| 22:57.06 | DeM0nFiRe | I am wondering if anyone here knows a good place to get COM boards for like an individual to purchase, not a company |
| 22:57.16 | DeM0nFiRe | i.e. I want 1, not 1000 :P |
| 22:59.59 | MonMotha | COM board? |
| 23:00.36 | SpeedEvil | Chip on Module? |
| 23:00.51 | SpeedEvil | I vaguely recall hearing about that. |
| 23:01.04 | DeM0nFiRe | Computer on Module |
| 23:01.13 | DeM0nFiRe | motherboard that has the CPU built in basically :P |
| 23:01.35 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 23:01.46 | SpeedEvil | ebay |
| 23:01.52 | DeM0nFiRe | ... |
| 23:01.55 | DeM0nFiRe | Why didn't I think of that |
| 23:01.56 | DeM0nFiRe | Haha |
| 23:02.09 | SpeedEvil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ARM9-mini2440-S3C2440-Board-3-5-Touch-Screen-LCD-DHL-/200547023712?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb188bb60 |
| 23:02.11 | MonMotha | oh |
| 23:02.12 | SpeedEvil | For example. |
| 23:02.23 | SpeedEvil | What sort of board - there may be better sources. |
| 23:02.33 | MonMotha | there's various places that will sell those in singles. Check out hobby robotics/electronics shops and of course ebay. |
| 23:02.56 | MonMotha | also look up "single board computer" or SBC |
| 23:03.19 | MonMotha | many of those are designed to be hooked up to or even stacked with a "carrier" of sorts, similar to a COM device |
| 23:03.43 | DeM0nFiRe | I would like to get something with a bit of power to it, like a COre 2 Duo or Core i7 on it, I would like something iwth an x86 processor |
| 23:03.50 | DeM0nFiRe | with* |
| 23:04.03 | MonMotha | what kind of IO? |
| 23:04.05 | SpeedEvil | That is rather more expensive. |
| 23:04.21 | SpeedEvil | Varying from merely extortionate to murderous. |
| 23:04.42 | MonMotha | you might do well to just get a mini-ITX board |
| 23:04.53 | SpeedEvil | Unless your really have to, it's generally better to use a normal motherboard. |
| 23:04.57 | MonMotha | many of those have retained the parallel and serial ports for "semi-embedded" purposes |
| 23:05.01 | DeM0nFiRe | I was thinking of that the problem is that I don't want everything those have |
| 23:05.06 | MonMotha | some even have LVDS interfaces for LCDs |
| 23:05.18 | SpeedEvil | DeM0nFiRe: Then you are looking at making maybe 10000 before you see any cost savings. |
| 23:05.25 | MonMotha | well, in small quantity, you'll probably have to make do with something that isn't 100% what you need |
| 23:05.31 | SpeedEvil | DeM0nFiRe: You absolutely can't beat the mass market. |
| 23:05.34 | DeM0nFiRe | SpeedEvil: Well, I am thinking of trying to piece together a tablet (Just for fun and such) |
| 23:05.39 | MonMotha | if you can spare the space and power, a small PC is probably your best bet |
| 23:05.52 | MonMotha | always innovating touchbook? |
| 23:06.00 | SpeedEvil | DeM0nFiRe: beagleboard is probably as close as you're going to get. |
| 23:06.01 | MonMotha | it already IS a tablet, but jah |
| 23:06.06 | MonMotha | and yeah, beagle or panda |
| 23:06.13 | SpeedEvil | Or that, yes. |
| 23:06.14 | MonMotha | those are ARM, not x86, though |
| 23:06.18 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 23:06.29 | DeM0nFiRe | Well, x86 isn't a hard requirement, would just make life a bit easier |
| 23:06.32 | MonMotha | pretty beefy ARM, but nothing compared to a modern Intel PC processor |
| 23:06.45 | SpeedEvil | I would be surprised if something suitable for making tablets with in x86 would be available at all, for any price. |
| 23:06.53 | DeM0nFiRe | Well |
| 23:07.02 | SpeedEvil | Well - on reflection intel might have prototypes of 'oak trail' floating about. |
| 23:07.07 | SpeedEvil | But not actually purchasable. |
| 23:07.13 | DeM0nFiRe | I already know there are i7 COM boards, but obviously you need some high power for that |
| 23:07.21 | MonMotha | yeah, most x86 tablets use fairly custom formfactors, and many are Atom based, not the higher end (and higher price and power) stuff |
| 23:07.42 | MonMotha | I know what you're talking about with those COM modules |
| 23:07.44 | SpeedEvil | In short. |
| 23:07.45 | MonMotha | I've worked with them in the past |
| 23:07.45 | DeM0nFiRe | Yeah I could work with atom. |
| 23:07.58 | MonMotha | they're...very mid volume targetted |
| 23:08.06 | MonMotha | as in >50 but <10000 |
| 23:08.07 | SpeedEvil | You can generally replicate a consumer device. |
| 23:08.15 | SpeedEvil | But at twice the weight, volume, and cost. |
| 23:08.25 | MonMotha | only twice? :) |
| 23:08.27 | SpeedEvil | That's parts only, not counting labour. |
| 23:08.32 | SpeedEvil | And being very optimistic, generally. |
| 23:08.47 | SpeedEvil | And assuming no case. |
| 23:08.50 | MonMotha | I guess if you're willing to double the weight and volume and not count labor, you might be able to do it at only twice the retail cost |
| 23:09.01 | DeM0nFiRe | SpeedEvil: Nah are you kidding me? These tablets are way more expensive than they should be |
| 23:09.06 | SpeedEvil | DeM0nFiRe: No. |
| 23:09.12 | SpeedEvil | DeM0nFiRe: Mass_market. |
| 23:09.14 | MonMotha | how expensive are these tablets you're considering? |
| 23:09.29 | DeM0nFiRe | $800 |
| 23:09.30 | MonMotha | if it's less than a few thousand dollars, you're getting quite the volume discount |
| 23:09.30 | SpeedEvil | You literally cannot buy the parts of a tablet for what you can buy the whole thing for. |
| 23:09.32 | DeM0nFiRe | Screw that |
| 23:09.40 | DeM0nFiRe | Nah, I mean |
| 23:09.48 | DeM0nFiRe | The $800 tablets have some ARM thing so I mean |
| 23:09.50 | SpeedEvil | Then you have the issue that to get a working board, you're going to need to do 5-10 revisions. |
| 23:09.52 | MonMotha | heh, you'll probably spend close to $800 on a decent bare LCD module in single quantity |
| 23:10.11 | SpeedEvil | There are also $200 ARM tablets. |
| 23:10.20 | DeM0nFiRe | I kind of doubt that, I've seen the LCD modules for around $100. Those are resistive of course |
| 23:10.21 | MonMotha | PCBs alone will run you ~$500 (assuming you can cram it onto 4 layers) |
| 23:10.21 | SpeedEvil | Even $100 - though I question how usable those are. |
| 23:10.45 | MonMotha | what spec on those LCDs, though? |
| 23:11.06 | SpeedEvil | Spares can be usefuil for playing. |
| 23:11.11 | DeM0nFiRe | OH, like 7'' 800 x 480 something like that |
| 23:11.11 | SpeedEvil | You can get a ipad display cheap |
| 23:11.26 | MonMotha | I'm thinking prime from authorized distributors at PC resolutions |
| 23:11.30 | SpeedEvil | I'm actually sorta-considering doing an old laptop like that. |
| 23:11.42 | MonMotha | if you're willing to drop down to 480 lines and go gray market, yeah, ~$100 |
| 23:11.44 | SpeedEvil | 10.1 display - rip out, replace with ipad display. |
| 23:11.52 | DeM0nFiRe | gray market? |
| 23:11.53 | SpeedEvil | rip out motherboard, add beagleboard |
| 23:11.53 | MonMotha | I don't really consider 480 lines usable in a PC type application |
| 23:12.16 | SpeedEvil | (PII/300 laptop - but 1.1Kg PII/300) |
| 23:12.21 | DeM0nFiRe | MonMotha tablets aren't PCs |
| 23:12.30 | DeM0nFiRe | They aren't meant to do what PCs do |
| 23:12.37 | DeM0nFiRe | I have a PC for that :P |
| 23:12.39 | SpeedEvil | In general portable stuff is going to be much more expensive than stationary stuff. |
| 23:12.47 | DeM0nFiRe | Fully aware :P |
| 23:12.49 | MonMotha | ok, so you're talking about the modern "tablet", not a "tablet" before Apple announced the iPad |
| 23:12.51 | SpeedEvil | For dozens of reasons from weight reduction to power usage. |
| 23:12.59 | DeM0nFiRe | MonMotha: Nah, that would be a Tablet PC :P |
| 23:13.08 | MonMotha | back then, we called them "tablets" |
| 23:13.09 | DeM0nFiRe | I mean modern ipad/android tablet type stuff |
| 23:13.14 | DeM0nFiRe | Yeah fair enough |
| 23:13.23 | MonMotha | and I'd still consider 480 lines BARE MINIMUM at >5" |
| 23:13.33 | MonMotha | I realize they make lots of netbooks and such at that res |
| 23:13.38 | MonMotha | I don't consider them really usable |
| 23:13.47 | MonMotha | but then I'm on a 1920x1200 15.4" right now :) |
| 23:13.49 | SpeedEvil | DeM0nFiRe: To get an ipad class tablet, you're looking at - to make one - perhaps $20K |
| 23:13.58 | MonMotha | SpeedEvil: in parts and tooling alone |
| 23:13.58 | SpeedEvil | _really_ optimistically. |
| 23:14.05 | DeM0nFiRe | Yeah I don't think so lol |
| 23:14.06 | MonMotha | and yeah, still optimistic |
| 23:14.20 | SpeedEvil | It could easily be $50K - not even counting labour properly. |
| 23:14.24 | MonMotha | DeM0nFiRe: I own a design company. His numbers are actually low. |
| 23:14.35 | DeM0nFiRe | I think you guys are including R&D |
| 23:14.42 | MonMotha | no, I'm not |
| 23:14.46 | MonMotha | I'm not even including ANY labor |
| 23:14.56 | MonMotha | well, other than assembly of the PCB |
| 23:15.06 | DeM0nFiRe | Well, I don't know what you are including, maybe you are talking about to get the exact hardware they have |
| 23:15.10 | MonMotha | and god help you if you want to tool up custom plastic |
| 23:15.27 | DeM0nFiRe | Because I know I can build something at least comparable for about $400 or so I've already found those parts |
| 23:15.30 | MonMotha | having a local fab bend up some sheet aluminum can be done reasonably, though |
| 23:15.36 | SpeedEvil | DeM0nFiRe: To get an ipad class tablet - similar power of CPU, perhaps double the weight. |
| 23:15.37 | DeM0nFiRe | Minus a fancy plastic shell of course |
| 23:15.48 | SpeedEvil | DeM0nFiRe: What motherboard? |
| 23:16.03 | DeM0nFiRe | I forget the specific one, I was just looking around to see if I could find it |
| 23:16.05 | MonMotha | and I'm also considering custom base PCB |
| 23:16.17 | MonMotha | if you start using things like beagleboards, you can drop that down a lot |
| 23:16.57 | MonMotha | but hell, those COM modules (no carrier) can easily top $1000/ea with the kind of CPU you're talking about |
| 23:17.08 | DeM0nFiRe | How does the ARM 1Ghz on the beagleboard compare to the 1Ghz Apple A4 |
| 23:17.19 | MonMotha | fairly close |
| 23:17.28 | DeM0nFiRe | MonMotha: Well, like I said, those are the things that I am merely looking at now |
| 23:17.31 | DeM0nFiRe | I can do without them |
| 23:17.40 | DeM0nFiRe | atom would be fine, and if that's too much I will use ARM |
| 23:17.54 | MonMotha | the beagle's CPU is a Cortex A8, which I think is the core used in Apple's "A4" SoC |
| 23:17.57 | DeM0nFiRe | I just want to see the actual prices of the really high end ones because I am curious |
| 23:18.17 | MonMotha | woah, the price on the beagle went way up |
| 23:18.17 | DeM0nFiRe | Well, then there you go that's $150, $100 or so for a screen |
| 23:18.21 | MonMotha | I remember it being $79 |
| 23:18.54 | MonMotha | ok, you still need a power supply/battery charger, battery, all the interconnect |
| 23:19.07 | DeM0nFiRe | What's the memory on beagleboard? |
| 23:19.21 | MonMotha | also, it's unlikely that the beagle can directly drive most LCDs, so you'll have to deal with that |
| 23:19.37 | DeM0nFiRe | 512MB |
| 23:19.39 | MonMotha | memory on the beagle is a little minimal |
| 23:19.51 | MonMotha | since it's PoP |
| 23:20.03 | wmat | MonMotha: the BB was $79 at one time? |
| 23:20.22 | wmat | the Hawkboard was that price, but I don't recall the Beagle ever being |
| 23:20.25 | DeM0nFiRe | MonMotha: The BeagleBoard is $150 for the 1Ghz one |
| 23:20.35 | DeM0nFiRe | The old one you are probably talking about is 600Mhz |
| 23:20.38 | MonMotha | wmat: I could have sworn the beagle was originally $79 from DigiKey (the original beagle, not the new xM) |
| 23:20.58 | DeM0nFiRe | Oh the othe rBB is $125 |
| 23:21.00 | MonMotha | looks like they also added an LCD breakout to the new Beagle. That's good |
| 23:21.03 | DeM0nFiRe | So idk where you got $79 from |
| 23:21.14 | wmat | you could be right, but I don't remember |
| 23:21.20 | DeM0nFiRe | MonMotha: There's a different COM like PAX270 that is $79 |
| 23:21.21 | MonMotha | DeM0nFiRe: I'm talking ~3 years ago |
| 23:21.35 | MonMotha | heh, you do NOT want a PXA270 |
| 23:21.41 | DeM0nFiRe | lol I know that much :P |
| 23:21.48 | DeM0nFiRe | But I saw it and I believe it's $79 if you buy one |
| 23:22.07 | SpeedEvil | http://download.intel.com/design/processor/datashts/325310.pdf |
| 23:22.17 | SpeedEvil | PXA270 is what was in PDAs in 2003 |
| 23:22.21 | SpeedEvil | if I remember right |
| 23:22.23 | SpeedEvil | maybe 2002 |
| 23:22.29 | SpeedEvil | Interesting |
| 23:22.34 | SpeedEvil | 'oak trail' datasheet |
| 23:22.41 | MonMotha | I can believe that you may be able to piece together all the major chunks of a tablet for <$500 if you're willing to deal with "I can't guarantee you that this will be available tomorrow or even what you'll get if you buy today" type things |
| 23:22.51 | MonMotha | though I still think you'll go over once you add all the other random stuff |
| 23:22.51 | DeM0nFiRe | Also 512MB RAM is what the ipad has |
| 23:23.03 | MonMotha | and no way it's a producible design |
| 23:23.06 | DeM0nFiRe | I am not planning on selling it |
| 23:23.12 | DeM0nFiRe | I want one for me :P |
| 23:23.17 | MonMotha | well, good luck |
| 23:23.21 | DeM0nFiRe | But I hate google and apple |
| 23:23.23 | MonMotha | I think it would be easier to just buy one and hack it |
| 23:23.31 | DeM0nFiRe | So I could spend $500 - $800 giving them money |
| 23:23.42 | DeM0nFiRe | Or I could spend $500 - $800 having fun making my own! |
| 23:23.46 | MonMotha | um, I don't think the Galaxy tab is google branded at all |
| 23:24.04 | MonMotha | even if it is, they probably don't see any of the purchase price. Heck, they might be subsidizing it |
| 23:24.12 | MonMotha | now, I can agree with you on the damned ipad |
| 23:24.22 | DeM0nFiRe | lol |
| 23:24.27 | MonMotha | and seriously, good luck doing this for <$1000 |
| 23:24.37 | MonMotha | you'll probably be tediously making your own interconnect harnesses, for example |
| 23:24.41 | SpeedEvil | The above 'oak trail' processor says '1.02W' HD streaming scernario power. |
| 23:24.45 | DeM0nFiRe | Well, I also may end up just buying a cheap-android tablet for like $200 or whatever |
| 23:25.10 | SpeedEvil | Wow |
| 23:25.12 | DeM0nFiRe | That would be less fun though |
| 23:25.13 | MonMotha | and sticking it all down to a piece of wood or something, since you won't have a proper enclosure or carrier PCB |
| 23:25.15 | SpeedEvil | That's _including_ the LCD |
| 23:25.33 | MonMotha | heh, the power budgets on some modern devices are stupid small |
| 23:25.39 | SpeedEvil | Seems too good. |
| 23:25.47 | MonMotha | that may be measured at point of load |
| 23:25.50 | MonMotha | even still, that's really good |
| 23:25.51 | SpeedEvil | It is |
| 23:26.04 | MonMotha | I believe it for the SoC only |
| 23:26.08 | DeM0nFiRe | Still, $150 for motherboard, $100 for LCD, I found the battery and power supply before forget what they costed |
| 23:26.12 | DeM0nFiRe | But I don't think it was too much |
| 23:26.18 | SpeedEvil | Scenario Power examines a common use case and may be more indicative of a more common power usage level as compared with the TDP. Measurement configuration assumes: LCD brightness 100nits, LCD 1024x800 10.1", USB touch panel, I2C sensors, SDIO WiFi on, 2GB DDR2, 73% PMIC efficiency, 93% discrete VR efficiency, Flash* v10.2 |
| 23:26.18 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:26.25 | MonMotha | it seems a bit far fetched to include the whole LCD in that |
| 23:26.29 | SpeedEvil | I wonder if the LCD specs are a decoy |
| 23:26.39 | SpeedEvil | I mean - it can't be counting them |
| 23:26.50 | DeM0nFiRe | Hmm |
| 23:26.51 | MonMotha | wifi on seems a bit high, too |
| 23:26.55 | DeM0nFiRe | Thanks for showing me this beagleboard |
| 23:26.56 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 23:26.59 | DeM0nFiRe | This seems pretty cool |
| 23:27.07 | DeM0nFiRe | What was the other one that was mentioned? |
| 23:27.10 | MonMotha | even at the lowest power, I'd bank on at least a quarter a watt for the wifi transceiver |
| 23:27.14 | MonMotha | panda board |
| 23:27.17 | DeM0nFiRe | panda let me look at that |
| 23:27.19 | MonMotha | I'm not sure if it's available yet |
| 23:28.02 | DeM0nFiRe | INteresting |
| 23:28.05 | DeM0nFiRe | It's a bit more expensive |
| 23:28.10 | DeM0nFiRe | But it has a dual core ARM A9 |
| 23:28.19 | DeM0nFiRe | 1GB DDR2 RAM |
| 23:28.29 | DeM0nFiRe | WLAN/Bluetooth built in |
| 23:28.47 | SpeedEvil | Also - ow. |
| 23:28.47 | MonMotha | these are somewhat subsidized by TI |
| 23:28.54 | MonMotha | TI uses them as development/eval/demo platforms |
| 23:28.59 | SpeedEvil | 500 balls in a 13*13mm package. |
| 23:29.03 | MonMotha | but they're cool little boards |
| 23:29.08 | MonMotha | oh yeah, the BGA pitches these days... |
| 23:29.16 | MonMotha | my CMs are like "uh...maybe we can do that?" |
| 23:29.26 | DeM0nFiRe | These are pretty cool I need to try these out |
| 23:29.31 | MonMotha | there's supposedly only a handful of CMs in the world that can do the PoP stuff, too |
| 23:29.48 | SpeedEvil | MonMotha: I want to find someone who can upgrade the RAM on my phone PoP |
| 23:29.54 | SpeedEvil | MonMotha: I have doubts though. :) |
| 23:29.57 | MonMotha | SpeedEvil: oh forget it |
| 23:30.01 | SpeedEvil | I know. |
| 23:30.18 | SpeedEvil | I guess under best conditions it' gonna work a few percent of the time. |
| 23:30.25 | MonMotha | I don't know that it's even possible to take the top off without ruining the whole thing, let alone put something else back down |
| 23:30.41 | MonMotha | You'd probably have to replace the CPU + PoP |
| 23:30.43 | SpeedEvil | The best option would be to replace the processor with a nre module |
| 23:30.46 | MonMotha | yup |
| 23:30.54 | SpeedEvil | Which would have the advanttage that it's a speed grade bump though |
| 23:30.55 | DeM0nFiRe | So |
| 23:31.07 | MonMotha | I don't know any CMs to refer you to, thogh |
| 23:31.12 | DeM0nFiRe | Do you have any specific LCDs you guys like? |
| 23:31.24 | MonMotha | most of them will whine enough about the BGA pitch and be totally unequipped for the PoP procedure |
| 23:31.35 | MonMotha | I'm very picky about my LCDs |
| 23:31.51 | MonMotha | though at the sizes and resolutions you're talking, you may be able to go OLED |
| 23:31.58 | SpeedEvil | There are spares available on ebay. |
| 23:32.02 | SpeedEvil | The ipad one is nice |
| 23:32.08 | SpeedEvil | And even has datasheets available. |
| 23:32.09 | MonMotha | yeah, in qty 1, just pick up a "replacement" part |
| 23:32.37 | DeM0nFiRe | Is the ipad one that I would be able to put on a beagle board easily or will I need something else too? |
| 23:32.39 | SpeedEvil | That's also good in that it's likely to be available in declining cost for the next several years. |
| 23:32.42 | MonMotha | I want a 8-9" screen with the DPI of the iPhone 4 screen :) |
| 23:33.02 | MonMotha | I don't know what interface is on the beagle and/or the ipad screen |
| 23:33.05 | SpeedEvil | The ipad display is a standard LVDS display |
| 23:33.07 | MonMotha | probably some form of LVDS on both sides |
| 23:33.13 | SpeedEvil | If the beagle can drive it - then priobably. |
| 23:33.15 | MonMotha | the original beagle does not bring out the LCD, though |
| 23:33.22 | SpeedEvil | But you may need some form of level xconverter, I dunno |
| 23:33.30 | SpeedEvil | yeah - that to |
| 23:33.30 | SpeedEvil | o |
| 23:33.36 | MonMotha | sadly, there's no real standard connectors for this stuff, either |
| 23:33.44 | DeM0nFiRe | Well |
| 23:33.48 | MonMotha | so you'll probably be stuck crimping up some tiny micro pitch harness yourself |
| 23:33.49 | DeM0nFiRe | Beagle xm can right? |
| 23:33.55 | DeM0nFiRe | I would go with the Beagle xm anyway |
| 23:33.58 | DeM0nFiRe | Or Panda |
| 23:34.13 | MonMotha | though it's possible that someone has done this before and has a harness available. Check hobbyist/robotics sites. |
| 23:34.42 | MonMotha | if the LCD has a flat flex entry, boy will you be in for a fun time |
| 23:35.08 | MonMotha | you may just have to cook up a little interposer PCB, but that'll be a bit costly |
| 23:35.39 | MonMotha | then again, there's a decent chance that, if you want this in a tablet-ish formfactor, you'll need a "carrier" or base PCB for some other things, anyway |
| 23:35.56 | MonMotha | removing the formfactor requirements from the equation can help a lot |
| 23:37.04 | DeM0nFiRe | I forget where I found them now, but I found some touchscreen LCDs that were like DVI and USB so that would be simple to work with |
| 23:37.17 | DeM0nFiRe | A little ugly though lol |
| 23:37.33 | SpeedEvil | car modders |
| 23:37.54 | SpeedEvil | Also touchscreen after-market mods for notebooks |
| 23:38.00 | MonMotha | heh, a full blown DVI connector is like 1/4 the side of a beagleboard :) |
| 23:38.06 | MonMotha | *size |
| 23:38.32 | DeM0nFiRe | Hey the board is 3.5'' if I get a 10.1'' diagonal screen I have some extra room for wire adapters and stuff haha |
| 23:39.07 | MonMotha | where are you putting the battery? |
| 23:39.18 | MonMotha | and I'm guessing you are just going to use an external charger? |
| 23:40.06 | DeM0nFiRe | No I want an internal battery I forget where I found those too >.> <.< |
| 23:40.26 | MonMotha | I said external CHARGER |
| 23:40.35 | DeM0nFiRe | Oh |
| 23:40.39 | DeM0nFiRe | Yeah |
| 23:40.46 | DeM0nFiRe | How else would I charge it? |
| 23:40.54 | DeM0nFiRe | SOLAR PANELS! Just kidding |
| 23:40.57 | MonMotha | well, most tablets have a built in charger |
| 23:41.03 | DeM0nFiRe | Oh, really? |
| 23:41.06 | DeM0nFiRe | I didn't even know that |
| 23:41.10 | MonMotha | as in you can charge the battery without removing it from the tablet |
| 23:41.13 | DeM0nFiRe | Yeah I would do external |
| 23:41.16 | DeM0nFiRe | Oh |
| 23:41.18 | MonMotha | I don't mean "DC supply" |
| 23:41.23 | MonMotha | I mean actual Li-Ion charger |
| 23:41.28 | MonMotha | they're not just simple power supplies |
| 23:41.32 | DeM0nFiRe | Oh, yeah I dunno what I would do for that yet |
| 23:42.03 | MonMotha | the easiest thing to do is use a charging cradle like many digital cameras and MP3 players use |
| 23:42.14 | MonMotha | but then you have to remove the battery to charge it |
| 23:42.44 | DeM0nFiRe | Yeah that would be lame, but if I had to do that I could |
| 23:43.08 | MonMotha | do be careful with Lithium batteries |
| 23:43.17 | MonMotha | I've seen some pretty scary stuff with them |
| 23:43.19 | SpeedEvil | go to maxim-ic.com and type in USB lithium |
| 23:43.31 | SpeedEvil | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OsBc8RqSKU |
| 23:43.38 | SpeedEvil | what can happen if you squash lithium |
| 23:44.34 | DeM0nFiRe | $150 LED backlit 7'' LCD http://www.lcdtft.com/Detail.asp?Product_ID=090.013_LCDP700VGATS |
| 23:44.48 | DeM0nFiRe | Dunno what it looks like inside that case though |
| 23:46.09 | MonMotha | place I used to work had some 7.8" LED backlit 800x480 LCD modules. IIRC, they were ~$100 from china in qty. 100 |
| 23:46.31 | MonMotha | quality was so-so |
| 23:46.43 | DeM0nFiRe | You know what I could do |
| 23:46.54 | MonMotha | if you only want one, it's usually easiest to tear something apart |
| 23:46.58 | DeM0nFiRe | Get a really cheap 10.2'' tablet that has the shell, lcd, battery, charger etc. |
| 23:47.06 | MonMotha | many portable DVD players will take s-video, but it looks terrible |
| 23:47.10 | DeM0nFiRe | And replace the board with beagle or panda |
| 23:47.25 | MonMotha | that's probably going to be harder than you think, but it's an option |
| 23:47.40 | DeM0nFiRe | What would be involved that I might be missing? |
| 23:47.48 | MonMotha | lots of stuff |
| 23:48.05 | MonMotha | basically everything missing from the "I want a tablet with XYZ processor, FOO RAM, BAR display." |
| 23:48.21 | MonMotha | no guarantees that you can separate the charger from the rest of the system, for example |
| 23:48.40 | MonMotha | none of the internal connectors are going to be standard "home" A/V connectors |
| 23:48.49 | DeM0nFiRe | Oh of course |
| 23:48.52 | MonMotha | good luck finding docs on the display, but you might get lucky |
| 23:49.21 | DeM0nFiRe | But I mean, it could still be the right connectors for beagleboard or panda |
| 23:49.27 | MonMotha | good chance your beagleboard won't fit nicely into the plastic, but a few nicks (hopefully not to yourself) with an X-acto may be all that's required to fit it |
| 23:49.34 | MonMotha | it COULD have those connectors |
| 23:49.46 | DeM0nFiRe | Yeah unfortunately the only way to know is to buy it and open it :D |
| 23:49.49 | MonMotha | it could also have any other of the seemingly millions of connectors made by some company you've never heard of |
| 23:50.05 | DeM0nFiRe | But $175 for the tablet, $175 for beagleboard, you got a pretty damn nice tablet for $350 |
| 23:50.14 | MonMotha | I wish I knew how much time I've otherwise wasted just trying to identify a damned connector |
| 23:50.18 | DeM0nFiRe | Assuming it went nice hehe |
| 23:50.27 | DeM0nFiRe | Heh yeah |
| 23:50.30 | MonMotha | $350 and a whole lot of work + a few hundred more in "misc expenses" |
| 23:50.52 | MonMotha | and most of the parts in a $175 tablet are going to be best described as "shit", pardon my french |
| 23:51.00 | DeM0nFiRe | Oh I am sure |
| 23:51.06 | DeM0nFiRe | This would be for fooling around and stuff |
| 23:51.08 | MonMotha | and I don't just mean the electronics |
| 23:51.28 | MonMotha | I've hacked up portable DVD players and similar in the past with mixed results |
| 23:51.46 | MonMotha | you certainly won't get anything that feels remotely like a "real product" without spending some serious coin, but if you just want to have fun, yeah, it's doable |
| 23:52.13 | DeM0nFiRe | Well, I mean I can't do it now anyway I would need more money, however buying the $175 tablet just to peek inside might be a good investment, worst case I use it as an e reader or something |
| 23:52.40 | DeM0nFiRe | But if the connecters would work for panda or beagle then I can get that too and make a pretty nice tablet |
| 23:52.57 | SpeedEvil | Don't listen to him - $175 is a premium tablet! |
| 23:53.01 | SpeedEvil | http://www.dealextreme.com/p/7-touch-screen-tft-lcd-google-android-1-6-tablet-pc-w-wifi-camera-via-wm8505-arm926-42070 |
| 23:53.03 | SpeedEvil | (not really) |
| 23:53.08 | DeM0nFiRe | lol |
| 23:53.18 | DeM0nFiRe | or for $100 I could get the SuperPad! :D |
| 23:53.50 | MonMotha | I would put the likelihood of a panda or beagleboard being a "drop in" in a situation like that at approximately the likelihood of President Obama resigning his presidency |
| 23:53.52 | DeM0nFiRe | "Superior Hardware: With a 1 Ghz processor, 2Gb of memory, and a high resolution 10 inch touch screen display (1024*600, WXGA, 16:9), this baby will even make all of your friends (including Steve Jobs) jealous. |
| 23:53.53 | DeM0nFiRe | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:54.04 | DeM0nFiRe | Well |
| 23:54.28 | DeM0nFiRe | even if it's not a drop in, I can look around for how to adapt and such and see if it's feasible |
| 23:54.47 | SpeedEvil | Some stuff gets reasonabel revirews |
| 23:54.51 | SpeedEvil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-3-Touch-MID-SmartQ-V5-MP3-MP4-MP5-Player-PDA-Android-/280491763587?pt=UK_Computing_Laptops_EH&hash=item414e9ca783 |
| 23:55.28 | MonMotha | DeM0nFiRe: The way most of these are made for commercial mock ups is with a small interposer/carrier board |
| 23:55.49 | DeM0nFiRe | What do you mean? |
| 23:55.59 | MonMotha | basically, the beagle sits either on top of (using stacking connectors) or next to (using ribbon cables or similar) a lowish cost custom PCB that handles gluing everything together |
| 23:56.08 | MonMotha | gluing both mechanically and electrically |
| 23:56.15 | DeM0nFiRe | Oh, right gotcha |
| 23:56.31 | MonMotha | you can get small, 2 layer PCBs made at reasonable cost |
| 23:56.44 | MonMotha | ~$100-150 for 1-2 |
| 23:56.49 | MonMotha | they won't have a soldermask, though |
| 23:56.52 | DeM0nFiRe | And what would that be, I tell them what connectors I have and what I need to get to? |
| 23:56.59 | MonMotha | no, you have to design the PCB |
| 23:57.09 | MonMotha | if you want the board designed for you, you'll have to pay for that |
| 23:57.14 | DeM0nFiRe | Gotcha |
| 23:57.24 | MonMotha | that cost is "here's the exact artwork of how all the traces should be laid out" |
| 23:57.52 | MonMotha | you might look into services like batchpcb (sparkfun) or similar if you want a custom PCB at lowish cost |
| 23:58.16 | MonMotha | I usually just use advanced circuits, though |
| 23:58.25 | MonMotha | a little more expensive, but 100% of my timetable, and they're in the USA |
| 23:58.35 | MonMotha | *100% on |
| 23:58.48 | DeM0nFiRe | Yeah I mean really what would be ideal for me isfinding the parts individually so I can make sure they have the right connectors |
| 23:58.49 | MonMotha | that $33/ea deal is tough to beat, too |
| 23:59.26 | SpeedEvil | Oh and then you need to assemble the parts onto the boards |
| 23:59.40 | SpeedEvil | Which can be fun. |
| 23:59.48 | DeM0nFiRe | How much would it generally cost to basically give someone "Here's the parts I have, here's the connectors that are on the beagleboard, make it happen" |