| 01:27.39 | wmat | has been google+'d |
| 01:34.28 | Mirell | So have I. |
| 01:34.35 | Mirell | Yep... |
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| 04:04.34 | edboogie2011 | is it hard or easy to learn how to program a Pick and place machine to assemble PCBs with something like 100 SMT parts on monstly one side, with about 6 or 7 passives on the other side? I am looking at these $10k "made in USA" machines: |
| 04:04.43 | edboogie2011 | http://cgi.ebay.com/QM1000-SMT-Auto-Pick-and-Place-Machine-w-Full-Vision-/300419890487?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f26bbd37#ht_3559wt_1201 |
| 04:28.15 | SpeedEvil | edboogie2011: Depends. |
| 04:28.22 | SpeedEvil | Do you have a few man-years to waste? |
| 04:29.06 | SpeedEvil | The mechanics will run you a fair slice of that price alone - in one off. |
| 04:29.18 | SpeedEvil | The software development - if paid - easily over that. |
| 04:31.36 | SpeedEvil | Or are you meaning programming an existing device to put parts on a board? |
| 04:31.41 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - may have misread |
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| 05:22.19 | edboogie2011 | SpeedEvil: sorry, i went away from my computer for a bit.. |
| 05:22.29 | edboogie2011 | what I meant was I already have an existing design |
| 05:22.37 | edboogie2011 | I want to manufacture 1000 of them for my first run |
| 05:22.47 | edboogie2011 | I don't understand why it will take years?? |
| 05:23.05 | edboogie2011 | I just want to simply buy a pick + place machine, and run it all day and night |
| 05:23.09 | edboogie2011 | assembling boards |
| 05:23.16 | edboogie2011 | what is the problem SpeedEvil? |
| 05:40.44 | SpeedEvil | I misread the original question to be manufacturing a pick and place machine. |
| 05:40.51 | SpeedEvil | Which is quite complex. |
| 05:41.00 | SpeedEvil | designing a |
| 05:41.48 | SpeedEvil | I've not got any experience with how to program stuff like the above - I imagine it's going to vary significantly by manufacturer. I can't imagine it's going to take more than a few days to setup the board. |
| 05:41.56 | SpeedEvil | Probably wise to talk to the maker. |
| 05:46.52 | edboogie2011 | i asked my contract manufacturer.. he made it sound easy |
| 05:46.59 | edboogie2011 | like you said.. at most a few days |
| 05:47.14 | edboogie2011 | it seems like just very trivial time consuming programming of X and Y coordinates |
| 05:47.18 | edboogie2011 | and massive tweaking |
| 05:47.24 | edboogie2011 | doesn't sound like rocket science |
| 05:47.25 | SpeedEvil | There are also caveats - for example you want to make sure the machine can cope with your parts. |
| 05:47.46 | edboogie2011 | what do you mean? |
| 05:47.57 | edboogie2011 | why wouldn't the pick and place machine cope with my parts? |
| 05:48.26 | SpeedEvil | If you've got 100 different parts, the board will need 100 'channels' to be able to populate the board in one run. |
| 05:48.36 | SpeedEvil | If it's 10 different parts, this may be easier. |
| 05:49.14 | SpeedEvil | If it's just normal ICs and resistors and caps there isn't generally a problem with picking them up and configuring the machine to handle them. If there are any 'wierdly' shaped parts or connectors or stuff - they may not place well automatically. |
| 05:49.32 | edboogie2011 | oh yeah.. well this $10k machine has capacity for 60 feeders.. so i guess up to 60 distinct parts |
| 05:49.34 | edboogie2011 | http://cgi.ebay.com/QM1000-SMT-Auto-Pick-and-Place-Machine-w-Full-Vision-/300419890487?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f26bbd37#ht_3607wt_1201 |
| 05:49.53 | SpeedEvil | Also - can the machine cope with the format the parts are supplied in - or do you need to re-reel, for example. |
| 05:50.03 | edboogie2011 | oh yeah |
| 05:51.06 | edboogie2011 | it looks like it can handle paper reels and IC tubes |
| 05:51.09 | SpeedEvil | Looks like a fun machine. I'm still at the placing onto boards myself stage. |
| 05:51.09 | edboogie2011 | which is what i need |
| 05:51.44 | SpeedEvil | I'm not sure if there are people over on #electronics who are in the actual contract manufacturing buisness. |
| 05:52.16 | SpeedEvil | It would be fun if it was possible to have a 'partially filled' board done cheaply. |
| 05:52.20 | edboogie2011 | i doubt it.. i think people that are into contract manufacturing know little about electronics or engineering... just a lot about the industry of assembling |
| 05:52.21 | SpeedEvil | For amateurs. |
| 05:52.55 | SpeedEvil | So you could get a board packed full of common RC, transistors, and just have to place the ICs and connectors. |
| 05:53.31 | edboogie2011 | i don't know about cheaply.. its always about volume with these people |
| 05:54.05 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. I was meaning if it was possible to flexibly configure it so you could get boards run off in 10s cheaply - but _lots_ of boards. |
| 05:54.33 | SpeedEvil | And there wouldn't be a problem with running the machine flat out. Need to already have a PCB buisness that's doing well I guess. |
| 05:56.36 | edboogie2011 | if you think about it, most microcontroller circuits use common resistor and cap values.. i.e. 0.1uF, 10k, 10uF, etc.. i guess you could keep common values loaded in one of these machines, and you said that common standardized parts like 0603 don't need much tweaking for a board? maybe even doing one-offss cheaply is possible.. if you have your dediecated pick-n-place machine for it |
| 05:56.57 | SpeedEvil | That's what I'm meaning. |
| 05:57.07 | edboogie2011 | yeah that would be sweet |
| 05:57.30 | SpeedEvil | If manual configuration is involved, it's generally completely impractical for small quantities. |
| 05:57.38 | SpeedEvil | Only works if it's automated. |
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| 06:07.07 | edboogie2011 | I don't know if you've ever tried using programmable Analog ICs.. ike Field programmable analog arrays.. I think.. and correct me if I'm wrong.. modern electronic designs use as few ICs and parts as possible, and tries to confine as many components into larger ICs, like arrays etc.. |
| 06:07.49 | edboogie2011 | but then again you can't avoid having some design with lots of parts |
| 06:08.06 | edboogie2011 | and with large variances of values of passives |
| 06:08.15 | SpeedEvil | It depends. |
| 06:08.15 | edboogie2011 | variations* |
| 06:08.28 | SpeedEvil | Generally the days of 'discrete' logic is pretty much over. |
| 06:08.47 | SpeedEvil | And analog is heading towards in some cases special purpose chips |
| 06:09.00 | SpeedEvil | But the true general purpose analog chip hasn't really arrived yet. |
| 06:09.35 | SpeedEvil | And for those cases it would suit, there is always the problem that it's often single sourced, and any replacement would be tricky. |
| 06:09.55 | SpeedEvil | So it may be less of a design risk to just plop down a couple of quad opamp chips or something. |
| 06:10.30 | SpeedEvil | But there are increasing numbers of chips with their own signal processing - for example A/Ds with sample/holed and PGAs on the front. |
| 06:11.03 | edboogie2011 | yeah these SOCs |
| 06:11.22 | edboogie2011 | i wanna use one in my next design.. i would like 1 IC designs |
| 06:12.06 | SpeedEvil | Digital designs aren't generally at the one chip stage - you tend always to have voltage regulators, or stuff the micro can't quite do. |
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| 07:52.30 | MonMotha | What do you need to know about contract manufacturing? I'm not a CM, but I work with lots of them. |
| 07:54.07 | edboogie2011 | how long would a newbie who just bought a brand new pick and place machine take to write the tool path for 100 component PCB. http://cgi.ebay.com/QM1000-SMT-Auto-Pick-and-Place-Machine-w-Full-Vision-/300419890487?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f26bbd37#ht_3559wt_1201 |
| 07:54.08 | edboogie2011 | ? |
| 08:06.58 | MonMotha | depends on how good the software that came with the machine is |
| 08:07.13 | MonMotha | and how many different kinds of components |
| 08:07.27 | MonMotha | and how optimal you care the path to be |
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| 15:50.19 | plombardi | Anyone worked with a Intrinsyc Cerfcube and know what the right baud rate is for a serial connection to it? |
| 15:54.23 | SpeedEvil | http://www.ecoscentric.com/ecospro/doc.cgi/html/redboot-guide/cerfcube.html |
| 15:54.25 | SpeedEvil | > |
| 15:54.27 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 15:59.51 | plombardi | Got it. Strange wasn't working originally with that setting. I think the USB/Serial cable I was connecting the device to my box with was shot. |
| 15:59.55 | plombardi | Thanks |
| 16:03.56 | plombardi | Though now that brings me to a second question; this thing was in our lab for awhile and the root password is long gone any idea how to boot eCos into single user mode to reset it? |
| 16:04.39 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - above was from google |
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| 17:06.12 | wmat | plombardi: have you tried all the obvious passwords already? like root, <blank>, password |
| 17:25.55 | plombardi | wmat: yes |
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