IRC log for #edev on 20110718

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04:31.08DeM0nFiReHello
04:32.40alex4nderhey
04:43.41DeM0nFiReHey how's it going?
04:43.55alex4nderit's good
04:45.43DeM0nFiReI am just looking now at whether it will be cheaper to put together my own board for this MCU rather than getting one premade
04:45.53alex4nderuh
04:45.59alex4nderwhich MCU?
04:46.12DeM0nFiReLooking at the various STM32 Arm Cortex M3 boards
04:46.16DeM0nFiReErr
04:46.17DeM0nFiReMCUs
04:46.21alex4nderah, cool.. they seem like good chips.
04:46.25DeM0nFiReYeah
04:46.47DeM0nFiReI found one place that has completed boards for $25 which is a really good price BUT
04:47.11DeM0nFiReI am thinking of starting a project that will need 2 plus a bunch of other stuff and so I want to be able to do it for under $100 total
04:47.32DeM0nFiReSo far I am at about $7 for the MCU itself, $1 or so for the PCB
04:48.19DeM0nFiReThe problem is I haven't done anything like this before so I am not sure what I am still missing! :P
04:48.41DeM0nFiReI mean obviously I am missing stuff like the input for uploading programs, power supply jack
04:48.56alex4nderyah, you don't want to make your own board before you have a working dev environment set up
04:49.25alex4nderyou won't save any money, you'll just get frustrated and quit the project.
04:49.36DeM0nFiReHeh well, yeah, of course
04:49.57DeM0nFiReI am going to do the first prototype using a single of the $25 boards and less of the other parts
04:50.06DeM0nFiReWill probably cost about $60 or so plus shipping
04:50.18DeM0nFiReBut once I do that, I will be looking for what the final hardware will be
04:50.34DeM0nFiReFor now I am just mainly looking to make sure the STM32 are going to be the right ones
04:50.45DeM0nFiReJust so I pick the right prototyping platform!
04:53.56DeM0nFiReBut yeah so far it looks good, it looks like the STM32 stuff is gold
04:54.12DeM0nFiReCheap and plenty of power. A little low on RAM, but I will find a way to work around that
04:55.54DeM0nFiReHave you ever made your own board for a microcontroller?
04:56.00alex4nderyah
04:56.24DeM0nFiReKnow what I might be missing besides the board itself and the MCU?
04:57.55alex4nderpower supply, interfaces with the external world, etc.
04:58.16alex4nderthe biggest difficulty in designing your own board is getting your PCB produced correctly, and choosing the right parts.
04:59.10DeM0nFiReYeah
04:59.52DeM0nFiReAs far as interfaces to the external world, most of those will just be leads from the pins to the edge of the board for the I/O right? And then something for connecting to the computer to upload?
05:00.09alex4nderwell kind of, you have to consider protecting your hardware, etc.
05:00.24DeM0nFiReWhat do you mean by that?
05:00.48alex4nderwell some hardware is sensitive to noise and damage from static, others aren't.
05:01.06DeM0nFiReIsn't that a matter of the casing, not the board itself?
05:01.10alex4nderno
05:01.34alex4nderyou need to design the right components into the board to protect it
05:02.41alex4nderif you want to get an idea of the complexity requirements of the board you want to build, find the schematic for a similar reference board.
05:02.53DeM0nFiReYeah, that's actually what I am looking for now
05:04.02DeM0nFiReSo other than protection, interface to computer, power supply, leads to pins, what else am I missing?
05:04.36alex4nderpotential need for external RAM, flash, whatever,.. d
05:05.14DeM0nFiReOk, that makes sense
05:05.51DeM0nFiReSo that would be a decision of building it on the board vs a daughterboard?
05:07.44alex4nderupgradability?  potential for failure?  etc.
05:13.50DeM0nFiReAlright, so it seems like stuff that's managable, at least. I'll look around for more information, thanks
05:14.30alex4nderDeM0nFiRe: I've seen experts respin a simple microcontroller board 4 or 5 times, you'll make mistakes.
05:14.42DeM0nFiReSure, no doubt
05:15.06DeM0nFiReI am not looking for it to be less than $25 for one, I am looking for it to be less than $25 each to make a lot
05:15.47DeM0nFiReI am expecting to spend at least $500 to make the prototype for a $100 item, and that won't include the money I spend to do the first prototypes with premade boards :P
05:17.11MonMothaassuming a VERY well defined specification to start and no changes made to spec, you can generally expect to have two revs if you do a good job
05:17.28MonMothaif there are any spec changes found during testing, then that is almost guaranteed to add a rev
05:17.43DeM0nFiReYeah
05:18.12DeM0nFiReYeah, that's why I am doing as much research as I can, and I will do other prototypes seperately for figuring out software, other hardware etc.
05:19.12DeM0nFiReBut I would definitely like to do custom boards, because I think eventually it will help me both save money and also I will get to use a more powerful MCU than what is on the boards I can find
05:36.27DeM0nFiReHeh man futurlec is great
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15:57.42DeM0nFiReHello
16:27.20ag4veyo
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16:44.42alex4nderhey
16:46.57DeM0nFiReHow's it going?
16:47.54ag4vetired, out of coffee, playing with asm. it's going like a stalled car up hill
16:48.13DeM0nFiReHeh
16:48.55alex4nderDeM0nFiRe: good.. chillin.
16:49.00alex4nderthinking about the code I have to write.
16:50.09ag4vealex4nder: what type of code?
16:51.13alex4nderag4ve: automotive communication code
16:52.21ag4veah. c?
16:54.40alex4nderC++
16:54.41alex4nderbut yah
16:54.43alex4ndersame shit
16:55.46ag4veyup. who's chip are you using?
16:56.10*** part/#edev rptr (~puttaraju@27.57.98.222)
16:56.28alex4nderag4ve: there're a couple different participants in the hardware.. this is actually running on x86 and ARM.
16:58.40ag4vehuh. i just remember seeing in one of nxp's marketing things that they had some sort of protocol that was for vehicles...
16:59.12bsdfox_CAN?
16:59.55alex4nderag4ve: there are a lot of protocols for vehicles.. most are half duplex serial at different rates/voltages, and then there's CAN.
16:59.56ag4veyep
17:00.13alex4nderand J1850 VPW/PWM
17:00.29ag4vewhat's odbc run under?
17:01.07ag4veobdc
17:03.42alex4nderOBDII?  all of the above.
17:04.14alex4nderJ1850 VPW/PWM, K-Line/ISO14230/ISO9141, CAN
17:04.42alex4nderand then you have all the manufacturer specific message formats and requests.
17:05.16ag4vehuh, so your reader has to understand all of those protocols? ouch
17:05.42alex4nderyah,. it has to understand all of them, and then have a database of messages/responses/parsing to know what each message means.
17:05.52bsdfox_ag4ve: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics#OBD-II_Signal_Protocols
17:06.37ag4veheh, that wasn't there a few years back when i was messing with it iirc
17:06.56ag4vethe signal protocols, that is
17:11.56ag4vealex4nder: btw, understanding messages should depend exclusively on what you want. if you just want the data, just store the bits and decode them on a computer later, right?
17:15.08*** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ
17:15.18prpplagueCosmicPenguin: gold past $1600
17:15.39prpplagueCosmicPenguin: doesn't look like i am going to LPC
17:15.45DeM0nFiReHey prpplague weren't you the one who was making the LLVDS transmitter for pandaboard?
17:15.52prpplagueCosmicPenguin: might end up going to the LinuxCon-NA
17:15.56prpplagueDeM0nFiRe: yea
17:16.08DeM0nFiReHow is that coming? I thought it would be out by now
17:16.27prpplagueDeM0nFiRe: we have some beta testers working on pre-production boards
17:16.48DeM0nFiReCool
17:17.07prpplagueDeM0nFiRe: sales from retail stuff is a very small portion of tincantools business, so retail usually gets put on the back burner
17:17.33DeM0nFiReAhh well
17:17.44DeM0nFiReI am still too poor to afford a pandaboard anyway so it's OK :P
17:20.56CosmicPenguinprpplague: your loss.. :)
17:21.32prpplagueCosmicPenguin: hehe, i'd go if TI would pay, hehe
17:22.13ag4veti doesn't get you guys fpga's to play with?
17:22.55prpplagueag4ve: ??
17:22.56ag4veoh.... losing track of conversation, nevermind
17:30.43Crofton|workdsp's are better than fpga's
17:30.55alex4nder...
17:30.57alex4nderDSP troll
17:33.27Crofton|work:)
17:33.53ag4vehow do dsp compare to fpga? different use case.
17:34.22ag4veheh, iirc, my board has some sort of dsp chip i haven't even bothered with
17:44.52Crofton|workworks on the USRP-E100, which has an fpga attached to an omap3 :)
17:46.03ag4veooh, the programmable radio?
17:46.31Crofton|workyes
17:47.14ag4vedrools - i'll stress test one for you if you want :)
17:48.43Crofton|workheh
17:48.51Crofton|workI do not get to hand them out
17:49.28ag4veyeah, and you'd force me to buy a linear if i got one too :)
17:58.53ag4veCrofton|work: though, if you guys do ever smoke stuff, i'm sure hacdc might enjoy trying to make it work again.
18:04.15alex4nderCrofton|work: hah, my buddy is building an OpenBTS rig using one of ettus' boxes
18:06.19alex4nderwell I should say he's "building" one.. I doesn't have all of the required bits yet
18:07.29Crofton|workheh
18:07.38Crofton|workI can run openbts on the E100 :)
18:07.54alex4nderer he
18:07.57Crofton|workgottta be real careful not to cpature real peoples phones though
18:07.59alex4nderCrofton|work: yah
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18:09.40ag4ve:)
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18:35.48calculusprpplague: any news on the prius aftermarket kit?
18:36.29calculusprpplague: sorry to keep bugging you, but I know you like to have many things in the fire at once
18:37.11prpplaguecalculus: sorry no, i'll try to get in touch with them
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18:47.13CosmicPenguinSigh, I suppose now I need to buy a pandaboard
18:49.49kergothheh
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19:12.34DeM0nFiReHello
19:14.05alex4nderhey
19:14.19DeM0nFiReHow's it going?
19:14.25alex4ndergood, you?
19:14.29DeM0nFiReI am doing alright
19:14.38DeM0nFiReJust getting anxious wanting to get started but don't have the money lol
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