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| 04:23.46 | DeM0nFiRe | Hello! |
| 04:24.50 | DeM0nFiRe | Wondering if anyone knows where to get some good prices on QVGA color LCD modules |
| 04:30.49 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: qvga are pretty easy to get |
| 04:31.04 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: the PSP style displays are very easy to get |
| 04:31.23 | DeM0nFiRe | Well, those are like $40 right? |
| 04:32.32 | DeM0nFiRe | There's some people who say they have a handheld console for $20 cost of parts, so I am just looking around seeing what they may be using |
| 04:32.33 | prpplague | or less |
| 04:32.54 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: i am sorry i did not understand your statement |
| 04:33.24 | DeM0nFiRe | Heh, well, don't know if you've heard of it, but there's a little hand held console being developed right now, and they say they are going to sell it for $20, which is the cost of parts |
| 04:33.52 | SpeedEvil | Issuing press releases is very easy and cheap. |
| 04:33.57 | DeM0nFiRe | Heh right well |
| 04:34.19 | DeM0nFiRe | My guess is that it's not actually going to happen |
| 04:34.22 | SpeedEvil | If you are buying parts in real volume, expect the price to come down quite significantly. |
| 04:34.41 | DeM0nFiRe | Yeah, I have been looking at digikey, and I see for 1000 units, $20 per piece |
| 04:34.45 | SpeedEvil | But I don't think that project is likely to happen. |
| 04:34.51 | SpeedEvil | Digikey is the wrong place to be looking. |
| 04:34.57 | DeM0nFiRe | But that would bring the total cost of parts probably closer to like $40 |
| 04:35.00 | DeM0nFiRe | Why is that? |
| 04:35.19 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: seems like i read about that |
| 04:35.24 | SpeedEvil | Because digikey is expensive for this sort of stuff. |
| 04:35.27 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: got a url? |
| 04:35.29 | DeM0nFiRe | http://the-nd.com/ <== this is their site |
| 04:35.37 | prpplague | looks |
| 04:35.44 | DeM0nFiRe | SpeedEvil: Yeah I get that idea as well which is why I am looking around more |
| 04:36.05 | DeM0nFiRe | They have good prices on the microcontrollers and microprocessors from what I can tell, but for the LCDs not all that great |
| 04:36.13 | DeM0nFiRe | However, it also happens to be the best price I can find right now |
| 04:36.34 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: i don't see any specs |
| 04:36.34 | DeM0nFiRe | Which has me scratching myhead, I could have sworn when I was looking for bigger screens I was finding cheap QVGA left and right |
| 04:36.38 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: were they listed? |
| 04:36.44 | DeM0nFiRe | Oh prpplague lemme see if I can find the specs |
| 04:36.51 | SpeedEvil | http://www.aliexpress.com/product-gs/392848451-For-iphone-3G-lcd-best-quality-by-free-shipping-wholesalers.html |
| 04:36.53 | SpeedEvil | For example |
| 04:37.03 | SpeedEvil | Iphone 3g screen, $11 at 100 |
| 04:37.28 | DeM0nFiRe | Here we go prpplague http://the-nd.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=102 |
| 04:37.35 | DeM0nFiRe | Scroll down to "Hardware Questions" |
| 04:37.40 | DeM0nFiRe | QVGA screen, 400Mhz ARM |
| 04:37.50 | DeM0nFiRe | I could see everything except the screen fitting in $20 |
| 04:37.59 | DeM0nFiRe | Well |
| 04:38.10 | DeM0nFiRe | Battery I would think would be tough to fit in that, but I dunno |
| 04:38.24 | DeM0nFiRe | Oh and they have Wi-Fi >.> |
| 04:38.24 | SpeedEvil | Batteries are cheap |
| 04:38.36 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: yea thats probably doable for $20, but more likely for $30 |
| 04:38.44 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: all depends on the volume |
| 04:38.51 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: and also how they design it |
| 04:39.11 | DeM0nFiRe | Well, I can find cell phone screens for like $10 each I guess my question on those is how would you interface with them and how would you know how to interface with them |
| 04:39.25 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: you are thinking like a hobby developer |
| 04:39.27 | DeM0nFiRe | I don't think the places selling replacement cell phone screens give you data sheets |
| 04:39.47 | DeM0nFiRe | Heh well, I am quite an amatuer at this. How should I be looking at it? |
| 04:39.49 | SpeedEvil | DeM0nFiRe: Of course they do. If you order 100K |
| 04:39.57 | SpeedEvil | Or their supplier will. |
| 04:40.03 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: exactly |
| 04:40.21 | DeM0nFiRe | prpplague: exactly what? If I order 100k I can get a data sheet? |
| 04:40.38 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 04:40.44 | prpplague | yes |
| 04:40.49 | SpeedEvil | For almost anything that you can't get a datasheet for normally. |
| 04:40.57 | SpeedEvil | Maybe even including phone chips. |
| 04:41.07 | SpeedEvil | Though that is a bit low volume for them. :) |
| 04:41.29 | DeM0nFiRe | Heh, well that doesn't help me much for prototyping, though. I mean I guess I could use another more expensive screen that does include it for prototyping |
| 04:41.53 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: sorry are you trying to make one, or look at how they would be doing the pricing? |
| 04:41.57 | SpeedEvil | If you look seriously like you might buy 100K, they may also send datasheets. |
| 04:42.09 | DeM0nFiRe | I guess both. I mean I don't think I would want to do exactly what they are doing |
| 04:42.26 | DeM0nFiRe | But for some reason I feel like I have to make some kind of game console lol |
| 04:42.31 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: most prototyping is going to be expensive |
| 04:42.42 | DeM0nFiRe | Sure, that's not really my issue with it |
| 04:42.44 | SpeedEvil | Otherwise, you find a big list of vendors, sort by price, then go up the list seeing if you can get a datasheet for each. |
| 04:42.53 | SpeedEvil | The hard part in many ways is not the hardware. |
| 04:42.57 | SpeedEvil | Hardware is easy. |
| 04:43.02 | DeM0nFiRe | I guess I am just afraid I will get it working just fine and dandy with one screen and find out it won't work so well for another |
| 04:43.05 | SpeedEvil | Software is hard. |
| 04:43.18 | SpeedEvil | Relatively. |
| 04:43.22 | prpplague | indeed |
| 04:43.35 | SpeedEvil | If you want to write a whole new stack for something, it's a _lot_ of man-hours. |
| 04:43.42 | SpeedEvil | Especially if you want it to look polished. |
| 04:43.51 | DeM0nFiRe | So ideally I would like to find something where I am cool paying $20 or $30 for one, but can pay like $10 if I decided to do it in volume |
| 04:44.17 | SpeedEvil | You can possibly put something together like the above console for a man-year of effort on the hardware side. |
| 04:44.26 | SpeedEvil | If it's someone good to begin with. |
| 04:44.46 | SpeedEvil | Software will take a lot more than that. |
| 04:44.55 | DeM0nFiRe | Well |
| 04:45.31 | DeM0nFiRe | Software is something I'm pretty confident I'll be OK with. I've been doing programming for a fair bit now, although I've never done ARM |
| 04:45.37 | SpeedEvil | Otherwise, get a panda or beagleboard, rip off the connectors for low profile, stick a LCD an a battery on it, an you're done. |
| 04:45.50 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: hehehe |
| 04:45.57 | DeM0nFiRe | But I mean beyond putting together a PC, I've got no experience with hardware... which is to say I essentially have no experience with hardware :P |
| 04:46.04 | prpplague | copies that down in the quotes files |
| 04:46.58 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: best suggestion, but an arm development platform with as close to the features as you want |
| 04:47.03 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: do your software dev |
| 04:47.10 | DeM0nFiRe | Yeah that is the plan |
| 04:47.15 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: once you have the software working, you can look at the hardware |
| 04:47.26 | SpeedEvil | DeM0nFiRe: You're at the stage where you've driven a car to the shops and back, and you're thinking that you can put together your own racecar, and go racing competitively. |
| 04:47.35 | DeM0nFiRe | Well, yeah I just want to look at the LCD stuff because I already know about what the prices are on everything else |
| 04:48.06 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: i like that one |
| 04:48.15 | SpeedEvil | To a degree, high level languages isolate you from the hardware. |
| 04:48.18 | DeM0nFiRe | SpeedEvil: Nah, not really. I know it sounds like I am thinking too far ahead, but realistically I am going to get one LCD and one ARM stamp and just start learning ARM with that |
| 04:48.26 | SpeedEvil | But they only o that once you've got all the drivers written. |
| 04:48.40 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: like i said, get an arm development board |
| 04:48.45 | DeM0nFiRe | I am just hoping I can find an LCD that I can buy one now and have the option to by many later |
| 04:48.53 | DeM0nFiRe | buy* |
| 04:49.28 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: http://www.friendlyarm.net/products/mini2440 |
| 04:49.49 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: you software should never know anything about the lcd other than the size and color depth |
| 04:50.25 | DeM0nFiRe | You were the one working on a pandaboard LLVDs interface before, right? |
| 04:50.42 | prpplague | yes |
| 04:50.46 | SpeedEvil | http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-STM32-Board-STM32F103VET6-2-4-LCD-Touch-Panel-JTAG-/200575289157?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb3380745 |
| 04:50.48 | SpeedEvil | For example |
| 04:51.03 | prpplague | oh nice |
| 04:51.05 | DeM0nFiRe | Yeah so I would need something like that, which is another thing where it's hardware and I am not really sure how to do that |
| 04:51.08 | prpplague | hadn;t seen that one |
| 04:51.21 | SpeedEvil | This isn't a linux capable system |
| 04:51.23 | DeM0nFiRe | Wow SpeedEvil that is actually bad ass |
| 04:51.32 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: ahh |
| 04:51.43 | SpeedEvil | If it was, it' be truly awesome. |
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| 04:51.46 | DeM0nFiRe | Yeah I am not looking for something linux capable, I think that would defeat the purpose |
| 04:51.52 | DeM0nFiRe | Well |
| 04:51.53 | prpplague | i just assumed he was going to be linux based |
| 04:52.08 | SpeedEvil | But, 512K/64K isn't tiny |
| 04:52.23 | DeM0nFiRe | Nah prpplague I was looking at using like an ARM Cortex M3 |
| 04:52.40 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: plenty out there |
| 04:52.51 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: prepare for lots of code work |
| 04:53.03 | DeM0nFiRe | Which I guess you could put linux on if the rest of the resources are there, but I was looking at the low RAM versions because that's easier to get cheaply |
| 04:53.05 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: main problem with the M3's is going to be the lack of sdram and flash |
| 04:53.20 | DeM0nFiRe | Yeah |
| 04:53.26 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: i thought you were trying to use the same specs as the nD |
| 04:53.34 | DeM0nFiRe | I was going to do an NES style rasterizer in software |
| 04:53.39 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: I had one prototype design that used SDRAM on m3. |
| 04:53.48 | SpeedEvil | Bit-banging it. |
| 04:53.57 | SpeedEvil | It seemed sane at the time. |
| 04:53.57 | prpplague | yikes |
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| 04:54.18 | SpeedEvil | Reading in data from a camera, just requiring clock after you setup the address |
| 04:54.23 | SpeedEvil | And using autoincrement |
| 04:54.38 | DeM0nFiRe | STM32 that uses the ARM Cortex M3 I want sweet |
| 04:54.41 | SpeedEvil | You have to bump the page every line, but it all seemed to work. |
| 04:54.55 | SpeedEvil | design = paper |
| 04:55.38 | prpplague | hehe |
| 04:57.30 | SpeedEvil | Idea was to read a frame into SDRAM, then crunch it into a jpeg. |
| 04:57.32 | DeM0nFiRe | Man I think I should buy this SpeedEvil. Although I may look around and see what other similar things are available |
| 04:57.57 | SpeedEvil | Or just over SD |
| 04:58.07 | SpeedEvil | SD is so large, it's almost not worth it. |
| 05:01.43 | DeM0nFiRe | Wow I guess I should have looked at the website of the people who made the controllers I was looking at, because apparently they also make LCD controllers to work with them |
| 05:03.40 | DeM0nFiRe | Oh no, I guess it's just the development board, but they have info about how they do it I guess so you can make your own |
| 05:06.47 | DeM0nFiRe | So prpplague what ever happend with that LLVDs interface? |
| 05:07.13 | prpplague | DeM0nFiRe: lvds board is in pre-production now |
| 05:07.20 | DeM0nFiRe | Oh, cool |
| 05:07.42 | DeM0nFiRe | Oh dear I've been saying LLVDS lol for some reason mixing LLVM and LVDS |
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| 17:09.34 | landley | Speedevil: nah, software is easy, hardware is hard. :P |
| 17:09.46 | alex4nder | landley: haha |
| 17:10.40 | landley | 'strue. |
| 17:10.50 | landley | (Or in england: strewth!) |
| 17:10.56 | landley | Or is that australia? |
| 17:11.27 | alex4nder | I guess it depends if the design has been done before. |
| 17:11.48 | landley | Would someone please explain to me why I'm on a 1pm video conference call with a USB hardware manufacturer posing as some kind of expert? |
| 17:11.56 | landley | Why do people keep mistaking me for various domain experts? |
| 17:12.10 | landley | "Here's what you're doing wrong" and "I am an expert" are not necessarily overlapping statements. |
| 17:12.30 | alex4nder | landley: you work with people who suck? |
| 17:12.34 | landley | This is more "I should not be able to see bone, that bit sticking out is bad". Does not make me a medical professional, it makes THEM incompetent. |
| 17:12.53 | landley | Actually my local coworkers are pretty nice this time around. |
| 17:12.59 | landley | The vendors are, as usual, insane. |
| 17:13.27 | landley | Today's fun: a usb 1.1 device that keeps mis-identifying itself as usb 2.0 when using a long cable. |
| 17:13.41 | alex4nder | haha wut |
| 17:13.47 | landley | It can't handle USB 2.0 transactions, so everything after that point is a bus error. |
| 17:14.46 | landley | According to the USB 2.0 spec, a device identifies itself as present by connecting a line through a 1.5k pullup resistor. |
| 17:15.18 | landley | Except their hardware is persnickety, so they defer this for some number of miliseconds to give the +5 line time to stablize. (Too cheap for capacitors? I dunno...) |
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| 17:16.04 | landley | So they have a _software_ controlled 1.5 pullup resistor, which they assert after a delay. (All that stuff with the different length pins? This defeats that completely, as far as I can tell.) |
| 17:16.39 | landley | During this delay, they have leakage current on the D- line and the big long 15 foot proprietary USB cable that you can't replace is acting as a giant capacitor. |
| 17:17.31 | landley | Then when they assert the 1.5k "I am here" signal, the host controller checks the D- line to see if somebody's writing a singal to it... |
| 17:19.06 | alex4nder | is the host controller confusing it for a high-speed USB 2.0 chirp? |
| 17:19.48 | landley | Yup. |
| 17:20.13 | alex4nder | yah, that sucks. |
| 17:20.50 | alex4nder | how quick till the host realizes there aren't any device termination resistors on the bus? |
| 17:21.24 | landley | The host controller goes into an endless loop trying to negotiate with the device after it mis-identifies it. |
| 17:21.37 | alex4nder | right, trying to download the descriptors |
| 17:21.51 | landley | The USB 2.0 spec, page 566, has a state machine diagram with an endless loop. |
| 17:21.57 | landley | And the host controller IMPLEMENTS this endless loop. |
| 17:22.11 | landley | "Drive Chirp J" and "Drive Chirp K"... |
| 17:22.27 | landley | Back and forth... |
| 17:22.46 | alex4nder | that's really surprising that the host even considers the chirp to be valid without seeing the 1.5k load |
| 17:23.49 | landley | alex4nder: it does see the 1.5k load. But by the time it's done so, leakage current has fed enough charge into the 15 foot cable's capacitance to register as a spurious chirp, due to the delay in asserting the resistor. |
| 17:24.07 | landley | Their logic floats high, or some such. |
| 17:24.18 | landley | (The sad part is I'm REALLY not a hardware engineer.) |
| 17:26.03 | landley | (My understanding of this stuff starts at the physics with crystals and metalurgy and chemistry and magnetism and stuff, knows "how to make a transistor" to be deeply impressed that Jeri Ellsworth made one with drain cleaner and a kiln, has some hand-wavey stick figures for simple nand gates and such vaguely remembered from old books, and then jumps up to the stuff that affects software like register renaming and speculative execution.) |
| 17:26.08 | alex4nder | so Vbus gets applied, the software waits some time, enables the 1.5k resistor, and then the bogus chirp happens? |
| 17:29.27 | landley | I mean really, dude: http://twitter.com/jeriellsworth/status/92959706980691968 |
| 17:29.30 | landley | That is AWESOME. |
| 17:29.44 | landley | alex4nder: yup. |
| 17:29.56 | alex4nder | landley: I'm sorry. |
| 17:30.58 | landley | My theory involves leakage current and capacitance, but really, all I know is their hardware is crap, known to violate the USB spec in other places, produces a warning pop-up on windows that they say to ignore, and the 15 foot proprietary cable is specially keyed so you can't use a NORMAL USB cable without buying one from them. |
| 17:31.18 | landley | Why anybody would ever use this <strike>device</strike> vendor for anything, I have no idea, but that's not my call... |
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| 17:36.02 | landley | prpplague: http://twitter.com/jeriellsworth/status/92959706980691968 |
| 17:36.23 | prpplague | landley: oh cool |
| 17:36.26 | prpplague | bookmarks |
| 17:37.10 | landley | Yes, this is a self-taught engineer making transistors, from scratch, in their home kitchen. |
| 17:37.17 | landley | On youtube. |
| 17:37.42 | prpplague | nice |
| 17:37.56 | landley | One of the ingredients is drain cleaner. |
| 17:40.05 | landley | Ah, "drain cleaner and rust remover". |
| 17:43.30 | landley | Oh, I should probably link to part 1 first: http://youtu.be/PdcKwOo7dmM |
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| 18:40.59 | prpplague | ok well i was one day off from my prediction of a +300 drop in the dow |
| 18:41.12 | kergoth | heh |
| 18:41.18 | prpplague | tomorrow i suspect is going to be worse |
| 18:41.48 | prpplague | expects to see +500 drop tomorrow |
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| 18:45.31 | CosmicPenguin | How do you figure? |
| 18:45.53 | CosmicPenguin | or are you just making up numbers? |
| 18:47.25 | SpeedEvil | landley: To a degree - it's where you're coming from that makes the difference. It's fair to say that it's _way_ too easy to underestimate by orders of magnitude the amount of effort you'll need for either hardware or software. |
| 18:51.59 | alex4nder | SpeedEvil: amen. |
| 18:52.35 | alex4nder | but 4/5 times, I see hardware delivered ontime. software, not so much. |
| 18:52.42 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 18:52.59 | SpeedEvil | The fundamental problem with software is that it's too easy to change your mind. |
| 18:53.05 | SpeedEvil | Or for managers to. |
| 18:53.32 | SpeedEvil | You deliver a hardware device, and there is some impetus to use it as-is, if it works adequately, as there is a several week revision cycle. |
| 18:53.54 | SpeedEvil | On the other hand 'just compile it - how hard can it be' |
| 18:54.01 | alex4nder | and software tends to not have the silos that you get in hardware working with well tested integrated circuits. |
| 18:54.02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: just making up numbers |
| 18:54.04 | SpeedEvil | And you have to refactor the whole stack. |
| 18:54.30 | SpeedEvil | alex4nder: You're not making an argument that binary blobs are good, are you? :) |
| 18:54.35 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i have no skill at understanding the stock market, the main reason i have no money invested in stocks |
| 18:54.40 | alex4nder | SpeedEvil: just an observation. ;) |
| 18:54.49 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: just play it as a game to see if can predict it |
| 18:54.58 | SpeedEvil | is annoyed with CSR. |
| 18:55.02 | alex4nder | SpeedEvil: there's also the fact that Bob down in hardware thinks he can program |
| 18:55.14 | alex4nder | because he has the eval kit framework from Freescale, or whatever |
| 18:55.18 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i expect tomorrows job numbers to be bad |
| 18:55.23 | alex4nder | and you know, he took C in college |
| 18:55.30 | SpeedEvil | I'm currently on a small disability allowance. I have interesting things I could in principle sell with CSR BT chips. |
| 18:55.38 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: based on the numbers today, it might not be as bad as people think |
| 18:55.46 | SpeedEvil | But to o it legally, I need to plonk down a massive wadge of cash. |
| 18:55.58 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: I think what you will see is a small rally to test the 200 day moving average and then it will find a new bottom |
| 18:56.51 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 18:56.58 | CosmicPenguin | 200 day average S&P is 1286, I wouldn't be surprised to see that next week |
| 18:57.06 | CosmicPenguin | or something close - 1270 or 1260 maybe |
| 18:57.14 | CosmicPenguin | Heck, we were at 1260 this morning. :) |
| 18:57.21 | SpeedEvil | http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/NOK - depressing. |
| 18:57.45 | SpeedEvil | I do wonder what'll happen when the n9 is released, though I suspect not much. |
| 18:58.53 | SpeedEvil | (depressing in the context that at one point maemo/linux looke like it stood a real chance. |
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| 19:18.55 | landley | prpplague: follow @nytimeskrugman and @richardjmurphy on twitter if you want to understand the stock market. |
| 19:19.07 | prpplague | doesn't use twitter |
| 19:19.09 | landley | I wrote a stock market investment column for three years and I don't claim to understand most of it, just bits of it. |
| 19:19.35 | CosmicPenguin | I don't think prpplague and krugman would get along |
| 19:19.42 | CosmicPenguin | Just a hunch |
| 19:20.48 | landley | I am sad that the "clean cup! move down!" crowd don't understand what money _IS_. |
| 19:20.50 | landley | Sheesh: http://www.fool.com/portfolios/RuleMaker/1999/RuleMaker990719.htm |
| 19:21.00 | landley | And http://www.fool.com/portfolios/rulemaker/1999/rulemaker990723.htm |
| 19:21.06 | landley | Money is nothing but debt with a good make-up artist. |
| 19:21.21 | landley | It's an IOU from the federal government. That's why it says "promissory note" written on the thing. |
| 19:21.28 | prpplague | landley: i will always be poor as i don't understand anything about finance or stocks, its just one of those items that i can not grasp |
| 19:21.43 | landley | The tea party crowd keeps behaving like the government will RUN OUT of money, when the government is the organization that money COMES FROM. They literally print the stuff. |
| 19:22.00 | landley | It's not actually all that hard. :) |
| 19:22.32 | landley | One of the things you need to understand about capitalism is that you can't get rich without cornering the market, I.E. preventing _other_ people from doing the same thing for less. |
| 19:22.55 | landley | You can make a good living selling bulk commodities, but without a "moat around your business" as warren buffett calls it you can't consistently collect _surplus_ capital. |
| 19:23.27 | landley | Therefore, half of capitalism isn't about "supplying demand", it's about fencing off areas and excluding competition. |
| 19:24.20 | landley | It should therefore be obvious that most of the really successful people out there spew misinformation the same way squids spew ink. |
| 19:24.26 | landley | And for approximately the same reason. |
| 19:27.45 | landley | There are a few exceptions, though. Warren buffet treats business as a sporting event. He's a sportsman who wants to beat people within the rules. He's still cornering markets left and right, leaving crushed and mangled competitors beneath his feet, but he's honest and aboveboard about it. :) |
| 19:28.55 | SpeedEvil | landley: To be fair - they may believe it. Successful people tend to want to believe they are successful because they worked hard. So they say 'work hard, and you can be where I am' - neglecting the luck part unintentionally. |
| 19:29.18 | SpeedEvil | Rationalising shut that you have no proof for is the human condition. |
| 19:30.06 | landley | The Koch brothers inherited their money from daddy, yet still claim in interviews that they earned it somehow. (Earned the right to inherit money?) |
| 19:30.50 | landley | Warren buffet _did_ earn it, but I haven't seen him go on and on about merit. (Doesn't need to.) |
| 19:34.00 | SpeedEvil | Same with stock traders. |
| 19:34.21 | SpeedEvil | There are enough of them out there that you can get a wildly lucky streak by .1% of them. |
| 19:34.49 | landley | SpeedEvil: it's slightly more complicated than that. :) |
| 19:35.06 | landley | Getting rich slowly in the stock market, given ~30 years, is fairly easy. |
| 19:35.46 | landley | Getting rich more quickly in the stock market is a poker game. (Which is not the same as a game of chance the way the experts play it, just the way _most_ people play it.) |
| 19:39.32 | SpeedEvil | I know. Skill of course plays a huge part. |
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| 19:40.08 | SpeedEvil | But of the skillfull, there are enough of them that they can have better than average years for over a decade. |
| 19:40.16 | SpeedEvil | ^that some can |
| 19:41.35 | SpeedEvil | On to something more on topic. Why oh why isn't the n950 purchasable. Getting one to do development stuff on. |
| 19:42.08 | SpeedEvil | The NFC of the N9 looks interesting. Need to dig into how that's working. |
| 20:14.26 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: sown +500 points |
| 20:14.31 | prpplague | s/sown/down |
| 20:15.08 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: my guess is tomorrow will be as much |
| 20:15.26 | CosmicPenguin | It will bounce tomorrow |
| 20:16.40 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe, loser pays for a round of beer at the next conference, hehe |
| 20:16.47 | CosmicPenguin | You are on |
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| 20:56.28 | kergoth | http://random.diplograph.net/nandcat.jpg |
| 20:58.23 | prpplague | looks |
| 20:58.31 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:59.12 | prpplague | awe i want a nandcat |
| 20:59.19 | prpplague | do they get furballs? |
| 20:59.26 | kergoth | hehe |
| 21:04.05 | prpplague | lordy lordy |
| 21:04.23 | prpplague | i have my research item for the evening |
| 21:04.32 | prpplague | i2c multimaster issue |
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